 Good afternoon. Welcome to Coronavirus in Our Mental Health. Today is October 12th, 2022. And I'm Ken Virtus, and I'm coming to you from Haleiva on the North Shore. You may have noticed the title of this particular episode is the Deadliest Addiction, or How to Get Out of Tobacco Prison. And let me start off with the connection between the coronavirus and tobacco use. And then I'm going to introduce you to our special guest, Tony. But let me talk a little bit about coronavirus and what's been happening with tobacco use. Because it's really interesting. Tobacco use has gone up during the coronavirus for the first time in 20 years. It's up by 14% in this country. The opposite is also happening. There are less people who are trying to quit using tobacco during the coronavirus. So we're losing at both ends. We're getting more, we're smoking more, and we're quitting less. And so that's a major, major concern with what's going on. Now, don't let that discourage you, however, because like I said, I've got my special friend and guest today, Tony Barron. She was on the show a couple of months ago, and she was talking about the joy of helping people. And we were focusing on her work with the inmates in the Hawaii prison system and how she's been a great help to them. Well, today we're going to focus on her work with tobacco cessation. Tony ran a very successful tobacco cessation program for the Army at Skillfield Barracks for 11 years and had one of the most successful programs that I've ever seen in the islands. So she's really up on tobacco. And I'm really happy that she's here to join us today. Welcome to the show, Tony. Thank you for asking me. Can I just love talk? I love you and I love talking about this subject. Thanks, Tony. Yeah, I was just gonna say before we start that I just wanted to tell the people that Tony is doing a special favor for me today because she's really feeling under the weather. She's got a cold and you might be able to hear it in her voice but I'm just really appreciative. Thank goodness it's not COVID or it's not pneumonia but I know Tony's feeling not at her best but I really appreciate you being here, Tony. Thank you. Thank you and it's not a smoker's voice either. Truly. Although I am most blessed that it's not, I was smoking three packs a day, 24 seven, so that I don't have some terrible ramifications from that, I'm very lucky. Yeah, that's for sure. The reason that I'm anxious about this conversation is I think that true tobacco lovers that I'm speaking for and to don't wanna lose their best friend and most have tried stopping many times and failed. So I believe the reason we fail is we don't know what's going on. We don't know how long we're gonna feel this terrible way of deprivation, of there's a true honest to God sense of mourning that we're losing this light not only this friend but this lifestyle. We lose a lot of friends who are smokers and I think the reason that the failure is so high is because we don't truly understand the process and the process can be managed easily, no expense, no suffer, well, you know, you suffer a little bit but you know, you'll live, you'll live. So and I wanna give you some tools to if it's, if you're not the tobacco user then someone you care about uses and you might give them just one of these tools that will help them get over that hump and say, oh yeah, I can see a difference now. So fire away. Yeah, and we're certainly gonna get to those. I'm very anxious to talk about those tools and Tony's got a lot of them in her toolkit but I was gonna suggest that we start Tony at the very beginning, that first puff of smoke the first taste of tobacco, what gets people started on this deadly path? They're doing it with somebody else. They're not doing it by themselves. It's very, very, very rare for a person to start smoking alone. They don't do, they do it to rebel against their parents. They do it to be just like their parents. They do it to be part of the crowd. They do it, you know, after sex, they do it at a meal. It's a very, very social encounter and when you're out socially, that's a great icebreaker. Oh, would you like cigarette? Can I give you a light? Yeah, that's absolutely true, you know? And but I was thinking more of when we're very young. There's been a recent study that's come out of Sweden in the past couple of years that has a lot of people responding to their surveys and they're doing a lot of data analysis on it. And what they're finding is that the average age to begin smoking is 10 to 13. And by the time that the kids are 14 to 15, it's already starting to morph into a habit. That's right. And so this is something that's very depressing. And I was hoping you could start with that, with the young kids and how they get it. Well, they get it because their friends are smoking. I started in the fourth grade at the movie theater in the girls' bathroom. That's where all the girls congregated and passed a cigarette around. I didn't do it by myself. So there's another second influence there. They're not doing it by themselves. Is that a good question or no? Yeah, but let's, we can explore it a little bit. A lot of times, you know, and I talked to kids and they're saying, well, my brother turned it on to me, my older brother or my older sister, you know, they're smokers and so they turned me on to it. Or my parents are smoking all the time and there's lots of cigarettes around the house. And so it's very easy for me to do this. The sad thing is that it also works in the other direction. They can pick up their habits from the, their family or friends around them, like you're saying. But even when it's going in the opposite direction, when their parents are smokers and they tell their kids, don't you ever smoke? I don't want you ever to take up tobacco. And the older brothers and sisters saying the same thing, don't do this. And yet they pick it up just like, you know, not that much differently than when the parents or the siblings or the friends are encouraging them. And that, you know, makes me stop and think, oh my God, you know, how do I deal with that? Well, the kids themselves will tell you, I'm not gonna smoke. Oh, it's dirty. Oh, my teacher said, this is what'll happen to me. And I've talked to lots of little kids who said, never, never, never. And of course, by the time they're 10, 12, 13, then the peer pressure kicks in and that's another story. Oh, and let me tell you another thing about that first off when you cough and gag and choke and spit and all that, everybody goes through that. There isn't a person that takes that first hint and says, mm, yummy, because it tastes like crap. Now, when I would tell my classes, they'd say, oh no, I didn't cough and spit and I liked it. The reason that they liked it from the beginning was they were half addicted before they ever took that hit. They were at the dining room table with a smoker. They were in a closed car with a smoker. They spent their young lives sitting next to watching TV with a smoker. So they're halfway there before they ever put it in their mouth. That brings us to secondhand smoke, which I also love to talk about because in my dealings with people who had abused tobacco, oftentimes they will not quit for themselves. You can point out to them all the problems that they're encountering, all the things that they're doing to their body and they won't stop to help themselves. But if their parents, the thing that I found, and I was gonna ask you about is that one of the most effective things is to point out the secondhand smoke and what it's doing to their kids. And that seems to be a key to getting a lot of people to stop smoking. Is that what you find as well, Tony? Well, I'm sure that's part of the population. The other part is the kids ride their backs. Oh, mom, what I heard in school today, I don't want that to happen to you and the kids get scared. So then they really bear down on the parents and it brings me to a memory of a couple out of Schofield where the wife was a nurse and she would look at x-rays and all the things that you see with somebody who's got cancer, all the things that happened to you with smoking. And then on her break, she'd go out on the deck and light up. She and her husband came because their kids just bludgeoned them to get into some kind of program. So they came, she was not too happy to be there. He said, oh yeah, I can't wait to get rid of this. Oh no, this is really great. Well, guess which one did best? I can guess. Tell us about it. Yeah, the nurse. And again, I think it's because she got tools. She under, it wasn't a threat. Oh, they look at this terrible picture of your lung or any of that. It was, oh, let me tell you why you're smoking. Let me tell you what you can do about it. Let me tell you how long you can expect it to last and give them some sense of control. And that's why I was anxious about this conversation today is to let people know what they can do to ease the transition. That's basically what's gonna happen. The insidious thing that I find is that when we're using tobacco and we're thinking to ourselves, I wanna quit. And it's up here, I'm thinking about this and I'm saying, I need to quit, I need to quit. And then people, while they, their brain is telling them to quit, oftentimes they find themselves lighting up and they don't even realize it. It's almost a physiological automatic response that has been sort of bred into them and to this habit. And they pick up a cigarette and they're smoking it before they even realize what they're doing. And they may have had say like two days without a cigarette and all of a sudden it's really depressing when you find a cigarette in your mouth. And you didn't even realize how it got there. No. The other things that goes along with it is not only the physiological response, but also the sociological response of triggers. So maybe you could tell us a little bit about how we overcome the triggers that kick us off to smoking and how we battle our own habit of picking up a cigarette without even realizing it's going. Yeah. Well, if you haven't smoked for two days and you pick it up, you're slobbering to put that in your mouth. So don't let them kid you. They know it's there. So there's three basic hooks that are going to trigger you to light up or to want one. And basically it's a thought, yeah? I would like to have a cigarette now. So one of them is addiction. If you smoke on a regular basis, you don't not smoke at work or you don't smoke regularly, but like an hourly or that kind of thing. If you're maintaining a drug level, then that's part of your addiction. If it's a habit where after you put down your fork at the dinner table and you pick up the matches, that's a non-thinking. You're not aware of it. It's just the way you live. And then the third hook is the smokescreen. People who use tobacco, they'll tell you, oh, well, it calms me. It relaxes me. It's my reward for a job well done. And basically what it does is deaden us. The body thinks we're in a burning building and it sucks all the blood from our extremities. That's why we have such core circulation to our vital organs. So it gives us that respite, that moment of leaving whatever is stressing us when we light up. Okay, that brings us to the point that I wanted to ask you about that, both that and we'll get back to the deadening in a minute but that having the cigarette at the dinner table, it's right there and all of a sudden you find yourself picking it up. That automatic response, well, I'm gonna ask you about what tools we can use, maybe keeping the cigarettes off of the dining room table or I'm sure there are lots of other things. But the other thing is how do we satisfy the needs like the needs for relaxing or finding a respite, a spot where we can sort of pull back from what we're doing and just take a moment. How do we satisfy that need of needing a timeout? Let me ask you, my darling, as a non-smoker, what do you do? Yeah, that's a good question. A lot of times I'll sort of look around me and that's a nice thing to do in Hawaii is every time you look around, you're gonna see beautiful things and that sort of comes to me or if I'm lucky, my cat's gonna jump up on my lap and say, I need some petting. And I'm just gonna say, oh yeah, excuse me a minute, I'm gonna pet my cat. Lots of different things, but that's for me. What are some of the other things that might help other people that maybe don't have cats around or maybe live in a place that... That's the whole point, Ken, that whatever age we started smoking, we started using this device to disconnect from the moment from what's going on is the time we deaden our lifestyle, our communication skills, especially our communication skills. If you're upset and angry with somebody, it's much easier to say, I gotta go out for a smoke or I gotta empty the ashtray or get some matches or something rather than staying with that uncomfortable conversation. So that's one of the double-sided coin. The good news and the bad news is your life will change and the change can be an emotional rollercoaster because they're dramatic changes, but if you'll hang in there, the payoff is really nice. You know, that's a great point that you're making and it's a point that applies to a lot of different problems. Living in the moment instead of worrying about the future or regretting the past, but living in the moment and enjoying that moment. And that's easy to tell people. It's easy to tell ourselves, but it's oftentimes very, very hard to do. What are some of the ways that you help people pull back and live in the moment and enjoy what we've got to enjoy? You know, especially during this coronavirus time when there's so many things that are making us really negative and feeling bad like the potential of war, the war in the Ukraine, the climate change, all that stuff is very, very negative and it's hard for us to pull back like you're saying. What are some of the things that you help people pull back with and live in the moment? How do you help them do that? Well, the first thing is to learn how to take care of ourselves because if we're hungry, we'll light up. If we're over full, we'll light up. If we're unhappy, we'll light up. If we're happy, we'll light up. So to stay in the moment is to understand what's going on with ourselves rather than acting like a robot. And how do we do that? How do we monitor ourselves? People are notoriously not very good at monitoring themselves. They're going along with what's happening around them. It's a process and I heartily encourage anybody who wants to try whether it's the first time or the 15th time to get away from this habit is to get with a support group, Cancer Society or private groups. I have a friend, she has nicotine solutions. She's been giving classes to corporations and individuals for 40 years now. And to have somebody there say, oh yeah, that happened to me too. Oh, I didn't know that was the reason why this happened. So to have it make sense really helps. Absolutely. Also one of the nice things that I think available to people, now that we're starting to reconnect and it's been difficult because we haven't been able to connect up very well during the coronavirus, especially physically. But now that we're starting to reconnect, one of the things is there has to be a lot of people who have either quit smoking or have never smoked. And we can connect up with them and get some support from them. If we're not in a official group like you're talking about which I think is a great idea, but there are also unofficial ways to. Right. And especially that people know that you're having some problems with this and people are anxious to help. Right. Create some accountability for yourself. Oh yeah, I told everybody I was quitting and a lot of people don't like to do that because they failed so many times before it's another embarrassing situation for them. But to have accountability and to have a friend who say, I never smoked and I don't understand what you're going through, but let's go for a walk. Let's go down to the beach. Let's have a cup of tea, something. Yeah, that brings us to another point, which is really depressing for me is that tobacco of all the drugs and I worked in most of my career in substance abuse which took in all these different drugs. This was definitely the hardest of all the drugs to quit. And I know in your program, a lot of school field barracks, we once did a survey and found out that people had quit not just one or two times and failed or three or four times, but 10 or 12 or 14 times that they tried to quit and they quit but then they went right back and they fell off the wagon, so to speak. Then more so than any other drug that I've ever encountered whether it be cocaine or alcohol or fentanyl, you name it, tobacco seems to be the most difficult. Insidious, it's insidious. And go, I'm sorry. No, I was just gonna say, I mean, when people have failed that many times and I know that they were in your program and having failed that many times, how do you convince them that it's not gonna happen again? How do you say we can do it this time? That seems to be one of the things that I really admired about your program was that you were able to overcome that negative feeling. Well, I'm gonna fail anyway. I've done this before, I know I'm gonna fail. And how you dealt with that had to be a great part of your program. Well, each time they failed, they could have learned something from that experience. They could have learned where the thin place on the pond, the ice on the pond was thin. So he said, oh yeah, well next time I won't go out and celebrate my tobacco sobiety by going to a bar. Yeah, that's not a good place for me now. Does it mean you can't go to a bar again? No, it just means that while you're in a recovery stage, while you're in your healing stage. And that's another thing that I wanted to touch on that people, tobacco users are very afraid of withdrawal. They hear all these terrible withdrawal stories. And I wanna encourage the person to flip that concept to from instead of withdrawal to see them as healing symptoms. So if you get cranky, one, you're missing your best friend, two, you're scared, three, withdrawal from nicotine can be constipating. And if you don't take a poop for three days, you're gonna be very mean. Yeah, that's for sure. So, well, three days seems to be the magic marker. I mean, we've talked about this before, 72 hours. And basically all that tobacco's out of your system. But so many times people fail not during those three days, as painful as they are physiologically, but they lose it later on. And that seems to be mostly not totally psychologically moment. That is because it's their beloved. And how do you get them to separate from their beloved? How can we get a divorce with them, with their beloved? Same way you got a divorce from your person that you were loved and came home and beat you up. Okay. There's no difference. You do it gradually in small steps. And every time you hear one of those beloved thoughts in your head, you say, stop, that's BS, that's not true. It doesn't taste delicious. It isn't my best friend. I don't have to smoke to keep my weight down. All those gazillion positive associations we have with tobacco can be disconnected if we're alert and we're willing to go through the steps. Well, the tough part that I always saw about that was the forever syndrome. When we're talking about young kids and then young adults who have an addiction, the problem with tobacco is similar to the problem that we have with alcohol in that both of these are long-term debilitating illnesses which wind up cutting years off of your life, five, 10, even 20 years off of your life that you could have lived. But at 20, that seems a long way away and you think, well, the future's never gonna arrive. And so I can keep on doing this because it's not like somebody is planting bruises on my face. Bruises are coming inside and we don't see that so much. And that's what's scary about that. Let me tweak your thinking on that rather than giving up the last five years of your life. How about this afternoon, when you go to this party and if you wanna have a cigarette, you have to go outside and leave the party that you're with? How about when you hug somebody and they pull back because you stink? It's not five years at the end, it's the quality of your life every single day regardless of your age. Yeah, that's a point well taken. I really like that. I think that if people can embrace that, that will help a lot. All these little things, you know, each one has its value. So that's why I'm saying education really does work. Now, we're running short on time, Tony. So let me skip to the end and tell us if there's one thing that you really wanna say that we haven't dealt with about helping people give up tobacco or helping them help their friends give up tobacco. What would that one thing be that you could leave it with? I would say stop saying give up tobacco and say get rid of it. Okay. And in place of it, we would put. Get rid of tobacco and see what shows up. Okay. Yeah, yeah, because that's a whole new life and that's part of the scary part but the rewards are there if they'll do it. Yeah, and I'm hoping that the people watching this program will, one, feel hopeful that you've given them hope on how to do this and two, get some self-assurance that it can be done even with the most hardcore person who's really hooked on tobacco. This can happen and your life can improve. I started when I was eight. I got rid of it when I was 40. I was doing three packs a day. So there is hope. That's terrific, Dodie. And I think Tony's, your life has really shown that you not only have given up that but you've gained so much in your helping other people. And I know that they appreciate it and I certainly appreciate it. And thanks very much for being with us today. My pleasure, thank you. And I wanna thank all the people out there watching. Thank you for joining us today. And thanks to Think Tech Hawaii for Jay and Haley and Eric and Michael. We really appreciate all your support with this. Now, one last thing before I go, okay? The great American smokeout is coming up. And I wanna really mention that. It's the third Thursday of November. Very easy day to remember because the fourth Thursday of November is Thanksgiving. So just the week before Thanksgiving is the great American smokeout. And if you listen to the program today and think I've got to try this, I've got to try giving up tobacco. This is the perfect way to do it. We'll get rid of it for one day because so many other people in this country will be giving up tobacco for that one day for the great American smokeout. And we wanted to add to that, Tony, real quick. Getting rid of it. Getting rid of it, yeah. The byword, I keep forgetting that byword. I'll remember that, Tony. We'll get rid of tobacco and we'll get rid of it at the great American smokeouts. So remember that. It's gonna be November 17th this year. One week before Thanksgiving, you can't miss it. Give up that thing and see how it changes your life. And thanks again everybody for tuning in. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.