 We're back on the breakfast with plus on plus TV Africa right here, and I would have straight to a fast conversation now desk dissatisfied with the conduct of the 2023 general elections no fewer than 10 of the 18 political parties have found 431 petitions at the various election tribunals in 37 or 27 states of the country to quash the victories of those The independent National Lecture Commission declared winners. There are five petitions against the declaration of a shiwaju Bola mutinibu of the all-progressive Congress APCS president-elect this brings the tentative figure of petitions to 436 the figure will be more if those from the remaining nine states Tally now those seeking the nullification of tinnables victory are a large Articuo public of the People's Democratic Party That's the PDP Pitao be of the Labor Party candidate of the Action Alliance. That's the AA movement Allied People's Movement as the APM and Action People's Party the APP They also petitions across states against the outcome of some governorship State House of Assembly and House of Representatives elections now from the five parties Kicking against the result of the presidential elections All the parties are the tribunals include the APC the Social Democratic Party. That's the SDP The new Nigerian People's Party the NNPP the all-progressive Grand Alliance Apgar and the young progressive party That's the YPP the number of petitions may increase for that after April the 15th When you have supplementary polls for two governorship and five senatorial 31 House of Representatives 57 state assembly slot now Lagos state is not excluded as the People's Democratic Party's Candidate has submitted a petition before the governorship Just looking at the election governorship tribunal of Lagos state challenging the outcome of the Governorship elections right there We're talking about Abdullah Aziz our A degerant that's Jando the People's Democratic governorship candidate who said that his calling for the disqualification of the all-progressive Congress President-elect or governor-elect and the Labour Party as well Candidate in the election for non-compliance with the electoral act of 2022 as well as the guidelines of the independent National Electoral Commission To make sense of all of this this morning. We have a legal practitioner who joins his life in the studios this morning, sir Leonard I'll go. Leonard. It's good to have you join us. Yes. Good morning. Good morning viewers Messy is good to be in your city for the first time. It's been zoomed and all that So I'm happy to be in this cozy environment Definitely, I mean we're so happy to have you here, but let's get into it the elections have actually ended The presidential elections the governorship state assembly. What have you the entire elections for 2023 has actually ended But then again, it doesn't look like we have peace So the little petitions upon petitions and maybe just maybe we'll anticipate more petitions I'd like to you to share your thoughts on that. How does that even make you feel? What do you think about it? Well, maybe I could just add that the elections are not actually concluded yet You know the supplementary election and on the 15th of this month tomorrow this weekend Yeah, 15th day one in Adamawa and KB for the governorship that goes to show that Do we really have a concluded election in Nigeria? It's a rhetorical question because if somebody is concluded Ideally means that It is done. I'm able to go home and take it, but I'm so sorry to say that Most of these petitions that you see in other the governorship tribunal or the presidential tribunal It may be as a result of the credibility of the elections itself the numbers Just like you read that is staggering and is still counting It shows that almost everybody that participated in that in this last election is going to cut I mean the losers especially So what is the credibility landmark of that judge of that election? It's what we could question Why not necessarily being legalistic this morning? I think it's one aspect that worked as the election the election that was conducted as is Substantially with the electoral art That's a big very big question. So but the general mode of the country can tell you otherwise because The expectation was that okay. This is going to be a technology based And election unlike the previous election were made to understand that okay the beaver's of course There will be electronic transmission of of resort and all that Substantially that wasn't complied with from the plethora of petitions we have but I think The credibility of this and of this last general election is the one that is being questioned but also remember that With with with with the greater respect than the judiciary Or the courts room has become part of the election process Of course it provided for in the in the electoral art and the constitution that if you if election is conducted And you have participated and you you are not satisfied you can go to the tribunals. So but What we thought we felt that this time around we're going to see less of those cases but unfortunately we have those plethora of Cases before the court to decide so Before we get to you know, some of the issues, I mean, I'm not sure that we would have time to delving to all of the Petitions that you know the that has been put out in front of the courts our writers But just before we get into the why are we still? grappling with This sort of democracy what we probably have to end at the court or you know go to the tribunal What exactly is wrong with the system? Well, I see this is really in different for that loss without the Implementation the without implementing the sanctioning aspect of the law is nothing but me a musical instrument. What do I mean? Why you have lost? And people violate laws and there's no point for it. I mean the Temerity continues the Impudence continue. Now we have laws in this country. We have the electoral act. We have the constitution These are the principal legislation governing elections in Nigeria and all the guidelines of INEC and all that and when people don't Or even the electoral body don't comply with it I've always said that there should be sanctions. One of those sanctions for these Aburations will continue to have what we are having now That is one aspect. What is the second aspect is this? that Each election cycle was supposed to have improvements Based on the previous experiences So there was so much expectation for the 2023 general elections that is going to be it was supposed to be technologically driven for the first time the electoral act Captured the electronic transmission of result, but no I'm not diving into this Technical area this legal area because these matters are in court We want to see how the court will come out with the final decision on electronic transmission of result and all that That's why I don't want to print because I'm being very careful on that aspect so but but you see people feel that Going to court is part of the election which is not which shouldn't be the case Because if you see what happened in Kenya presidential election within two weeks of the presidential election Election there was vetted by the by the Kenyans of pre-court But in our case it will drag and drag despite the Enemies work that has been done. You see that these Processes are not really we don't really observe time especially Post-election matters not pre-election here. There's time frame But even the post-election that you guys have won like 80 days to determine this election matter I to me I think it's rather too long because I am of the opinion with some other point that this matters Going forward we should find a way and see how it can be considered before serenity of any Elected person that is being challenged, but you see somebody's in court Somebody's coming out to defend demand it and all that and then and that person takes in that's why you have staggered elections In a number and all that area where you know that those governorship relations are different now One is holding different data now that because of cuts decisions So as going forward as Nigerians We should look at areas that we can improve on and one of those area cardinal point is that I think that Election matters should be concluded before serenity. That's my personal opinion So so are we going to are you proposing that there should be some sort of you know? Legal provision to that because yes, of course, of course that like I said Elections is a process electioneering is a process even the election itself will keep evolving the society evolve Of course, you know that The primaries I had almost this month to the general election. That's why you have most of these pre-election matters are not concluded but We can go further by legislation of course that election matters should be concluded before serenity Because the expectation and the mood of the country is like, okay If a particular candidate or the clear winner is challenged and you and the person is sworn into office I mean you already have an advantage other we like it or not So these are areas that we can keep improving but then the credibility of election. I don't like I said if somebody has Violated the provisions of the law in the conduct of the election. There should be punishment for such for such The difference between us and all that climb is that? We do not punish offenders in the country. We do not You know that climb people commit offense People and they are punished if you cannot do the The time down don't do the crime, but yeah, there's so much impunity and that is the difference and I'm going forward I think we should look at how to punish people that That that commit this aberration. That's why people have been calling for Tribunal to try election offenders. You see where there was a voter suppression People were prevented physically from participating in elections across the country. So we should have punishment for such behavior So so as we continue with this conversation now Because we can't begin to you know, pre-empt the court and The judgment of the court would just allow the court to do her, you know her duty, however, but Is it ever possible that we get to a point in our country where we would have elections conducted and then Results have been declared without having people Approaching the election tribunal going to court. Is is are we ever going to get to that point? Is it possible to attain it and What exactly is responsible for? You know this behavior where? Every I mean we thought that in 2023 would have less of court cases, but that's not that's not the case We're having more petitions. We're anticipating more petitions with the you know Supplementary elections that will be conducted. So again, I ask you do you think we'll ever get to that point? And what is responsible for this particular behavior and pattern? Well, there's no perfect election anywhere in the world even in the US that we We tried to emulate, but there's normally substantial compliance with the law Which and of course offenders are Punished okay, you can see even the indictment of the the former president Dona Trump because he was doing them. He was supporting people to attack against the state now What we have in this country? I keep seeing Do we have deterrence? Do we have people that of course even the the umpire itself I like some of their stuff what I talk about permanent stuff Those that have been found to be capable And they've been tried who have of course will have very few conviction In a quiet one where Guinea was the resident electoral commissioner where professor was convicted That is commendable. But how from the how much have we proceeded from there? How far have we gone? So when there's no punishment for this arts will continue to have this kind of aberrations That means of course you hear this adage which I go to court if you are not Satisfied go to court and it's very embarrassing to some of us have been in practice by the by God's grace I've done 18 years as a legal practitioner and I have sat in global audience where Different position legal decision the world has been compared to having I've been compared especially in Africa people There's so much impunity and people should be afraid of the court Should we should not say okay, and we have committed if you think the election is okay go to court the court is there at the last Habitat so what so why is there so much impunity is the question because We don't have punishment. We don't have the way to punish offenders How can you when the law has stated clearly that there should be electronic transmission and you fail and you Somebody prevented if it is fun, of course, you know, these are legations Alligation has to be proven in court. So why did those abductions occur where those crime? Of course crime against the state for you to alter election results So this the criminal aspect of that you will have to pursue it We have to come out with some legislation where we can punish offenders Electoral offenders because to me it is even more reasonable for you to alter the mandate of the people and then of course You're not say go to court. I mean that adage is a Castle it's sad Because you know, I said, okay, I can do anything I want to do I'm going to conduct what I said look I make She'll have the power for this a review session. We expected that I know who was going to review some of those decisions because there were protests either the collision the final collision. So that's why I make I had the power by the electoral had to review some of these by seven They have seven days notice seven days period to review and they never did We expected I need to come out clean. Okay. These are your petitions. These are your observation. This is our stand on it You know, but why not? Okay. Oh You go to court. I mean, it's very dangerous. I must tell you even as a practitioner that Sometime people don't even have faith in the system And I can tell you that the judiciary don't the problem on Nigeria because We are our own problems if you don't go to the court if you don't go to court not the court inviting people So if you have a system that is transparent if you have a system that people have faith I mean, we'll have less of those court cases and I keep saying that even as a practitioner That is better matters are settled out of court. I mean cable because if you go to court, there are two decisions There's only like drug game. They are two decisions. It's either you win or you lose And the losers who see have a very bitter memories of of any Judgment what I like it or not or what we are the other so if we get the items right get the Election right a bit more more transparent because we can't have a perfect election. This is such a compliance You know that this person has clearly won. Although they have few aberrations there it will go but where there is a So much impunity people are prevented physically from voting I mean that you cannot have peace and what the legitimacy of any election is question I want to take it very carefully a legitimacy of any election wants a legitimate of any election is question There's bound to be anarchy even when the person is a subsequent warning So we have to be very careful legitimacy of election is something that is very key Otherwise it will to no longer be democracy. Of course, you know, there are other forms of Government so democracy is a legitimacy the Majority Decision has to be upheld and that is just democracy. It's not normally the best but majority decision has to be upheld And that is the legitimacy of democracy And I mean just before we come to Lagos. We'll probably just touch that because of course So but I like you also show your thoughts on Inex Priors We probably would just have to be very careful with that. Inex has, you know, said the prayers. They are defending Tunibu's election as president and asking the tribunal to dismiss Peter or bees You know petition saying that it is vague. It is On ethical. I mean, there are a lot of synonyms that have been used to describe that Let me quickly cut it short, you know, I Didn't matter up to the Supreme Court just last month and the position of the Law is simple. It's straightforward that I like it shouldn't take position I like to be neutral It should bring just the fact before the court so that the court will take decision And it's not your next place to come and say Party a is correct or party B is correct. There's no high-tech position that has been decided by series of decisions in court so You know, of course, I like normal is a nominal party in the election Related matters. So it's not a place to come and say this qualified this person this person is not correct I know that in in the first place if I think I've done what they ought to do very few persons will go to court so the the contest basically between the petitioner and the respondent especially the The man who has lost election who is the petitioner and the respondent the winner, you know So I like to me of course to the law is merely nominal party They will look at the fact presented by the petitioner and the respond So but I think going forward I like and do for that and that to me But I've just been a mere nominal party by doing what they ought to do. The question is that where I like Where it is established that they deliberately fail to do what the law ought to ask them to do Would that I was not supposed to punish such Art because to me it's an instrument nation to the law So who's going to punish them now? That is why we have a political will We don't have the political will and that is why people have advocated that the office of the attorney general I don't state that the federal should be different from the commissioner for justice the attorney general is normally is different from the from the political Class class also to say yes, of course because it's more professional. Of course they have is another claim Is the is it's less it can be influenced? You know, I can be appointed a commissioner for justice and if my appointor Thinks one way is bad that I'm gonna think that way too But if the office of the attorney general is separated from that of the commissioner for justice or the attorney general for Or the minister of justice, you know, so these are some of the things who keep Advocating that as we're going to the next election in 2017 We should have learned from what is what has happened and I get to I get it right or better in the next elections But we would have, you know Second guess joining the conversation now as we look at, you know This the massacre that has happened in Benwick state and the fact that there's a need to call for a state of emergency But just before we introduce our next guest this morning on the show I like you to also speak to the fact that there's also a petition by one of the candidates of the Governorship elections right here in Leaguers who was actually approached the election tribunal Right here in Leaguers and is asking for him to be declared as you know The governor or the winner of the elections are very look at it On several grounds that those who contested the election, especially the president the governor incumbent Did not meet up to electoral Requirements more like a breach of the electoral requirement prior to the elections party issues And and what have you nominations? Yeah nominations. What do you speak to this? Well, I think okay I know that both the PDP and The Labour Party candidates in the ghost it I've gone to court each of them claiming victories Of course, that's why you know I do not envy the judges most time because what you have is situation where to conflicting the Person I caught you know to take a decision is always very difficult But now principally, what do we look at in election matters one that you are not providing of native Who has to do with qualification or you are you have been convicted of a crime and all that So you are not qualified to have participate in the nation Secondly that they have not been substantial compliance with the electoral arts in the conduct of that election But in let us in let us is very intriguing you remember in the presidential election level party actually won and From that perspective from the outside world Believe that okay, maybe they would be an upset but of course each election is look at each politics look at So when he when he came to the governor's relation there was different results. So You know let us is a mini Nigeria to me. This is where it is all, you know My friends would not say if you're not in Lagos, you're not in Nigeria, and I keep love I laugh over that too So people are very lucky. That's why I'm being still very careful because this part that's in court We'll look at how the court will look at this issue But for me, I think we should remain very peaceful remain very civil in our approach and see the outcome of this Cut but of course, I will enjoy that. I mean the judiciary should live up to expectations of Nigerians All right, then we'll just delve a little bit from all of that and just taking a quick look at security especially the fact that it's very important for our development as a country and of course It's it's important without security you and I can be here, you know talking anything