 And we're back with the breakfast now looking at the effects of subsidy removal and what plans do the Nigerian government have for the people of Nigeria? Well all things being equal the federal government will be removing the controversial policy of fuel subsidy. Now the discussions have been narrowed to the nature and scope of the palliative designed to mitigate the anticipated spike in the cost of you know transportation leaving and what have you and a spot of the measures to mitigate the effect of the policy. The federal government is saying that it has secured the sum of eight hundred million dollars from the World Bank as part of a post subsidy palliative plans. This is according to the minister of finance Zainab Ahmad Borja to national planning who disclosed this to state house journalists after you know the federal executive council meet in fact that here that holds every Wednesday. That meeting was presided by the president Mohammed Buhari on Wednesday. Now last year it's important to note that following the 3.35 trillion dollar patrol subsidy budget the federal government said it would stop under recovery payment in June 2023 in 2022 subsidy or under subsidy recovery cost the government the sum of 3.3 trillion in 11 months alone. The minister of finance, budget and national planning Zainab Ahmad said 800 million dollars has been received from the World Bank and will be disposed to 10 million households conceded to be the most vulnerable. That's the cushion the effect of subsidy removal. Meanwhile the government had also said that retaining patrol subsidy cost in Nigeria it's town to mount to 7 trillion that's in 2023. So if the government decides to say here we're going to continue subsidy we're looking at 7 trillion. The Nigerian government has said that now in the first sixth month of 2023 the government has also said that by implication subsidy payment would persist till the end of June and for 2023 and fuel subsidy payment in Nigeria is going to consume 3.36 trillion. We have I guess joining us this morning to make sense of the conversation Bjordu show me thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure thank you for having me. I'd like to share your thoughts. How do you feel about this social investment action by the government to cushion the effect of fuel subsidy removal at the end of six months in 2023? Well in the first systems I'm one of those who have never accepted the fact that we are subsidy. You only need to go back to the Petroleum Act which has now been replaced by the PIA that you realize that it was deliberately 445,000 barres of quality was allocated for domestic consumption. It had never been part of what we exported in the past and that was meant for domestic consumption to be refined locally and then with just a marginal profit according to the federal government. The essence of that was for the benefit of Nigerians and in recognition of the poor state of our infrastructure in order to minimize poverty in our country. We had that situation. That situation has not been changed around through the PIA Petroleum Industry Act which is the latest regulation in the whole sector. What the PIA has simply done is to remove or to annul the Petroleum Act which gave this benefit to Nigerians and replaced it completely with a new act which did not make this kind of provision of 445,000 barres of quality for domestic consumption. So what we have seen happening is that since then government has been claiming but even part of it they've been claiming that there's subsidy. What they mean by subsidy is when you now price the same oil. Show me can you hear me? Yes I can hear you. Okay go ahead we seem to have been disconnected. Go ahead Ben. Okay they are pricing it at the international spot market price rate and then with other surcharges like cheaping, new custom duties on what should never have been attracting customs importation duties simply because if it is refined within the country and added all this to it and then they now calculate that and say look these are the subsidies. That is what they're calling subsidy as it stands today but that approach now that government is claiming they want to remove subsidy that is basically to increase the pump price of a liter of oil. What part of the things they're planning to do is? Oh well show me we seem to have been disconnected but we're hoping that you'll continue with your photo. I am with you. Okay go ahead. That there are more there are buses available for transportation the buses on which routes on bad roads the roads are bad and we're targeting 50 million households that is the most vulnerable Nigerians who live in the rural areas who live in the creeks they don't have the roads to use the buses on that's the first problem you know with the approach to it I will be with objects to a situation where we give you know direct like what they did with trade harmony which is almost unaccountable you know to to people we should learn from society we have food the regulation are taking place for instance in in united states you have what they call the baker's hacks you know to intervene in in in ensuring that no american suffers you know poverty on doing it in the uk you have what they called it social security system the welfare system which ensures that you have the minimum you know accommodation minimum amount of money to spend on a monthly basis even if you are not working and they have it as a focus can you hear me yes I can hear you go ahead yeah so to take account to take account of that so in Nigeria we have chapter two of the Nigerian constitution which makes provision for the show making you hear me who are unemployed we have not made it just a ship that is you cannot go to court on it you cannot just go to court to enforce the chapter two of the Nigerian constitution on the welfare of Nigeria so consequently it means there's no protection no for protection for the very very poor people in our country I am more worried about the multiplier effects of removal of whatever they call the subsidy which I tend to be increasing in the price of petrol on the old economy particularly on the working class and the unemployed and the very very majority for people living in Nigeria prices of goods and commodities through skyrocket seriously and we have not been able to replace the means of transportation for instance the railway across the country in a way that goods can be moved faster and cheaper so then don't don't you think that this move by the government I mean borrowing 800 million dollars from the world bank to you know send across 10 million households we're looking at 50 million Nigerians there as a social investment program to cushion the effect of this don't you think that that's you know a plus on the side of government that's that's effective it would also go a long way to help cushion the effect well in my view if you are withdrawing seven about seven eight billion dollars of revenue that will be lost you know that's the new money that government will raise from the moving uh what do they call it what they call subsidy that is increasing the price from the price of them a little fuel that will save that will be added revenue of seven to eight billion dollars what is the point in saying allocating 800 million dollar you know uh as palliative to me that is a drop in the ocean it will not solve the problem it is not enough hopefully the this government is going away we are hoping a new government will come in on May 29 and then we'll be able to properly review it and listen to Nigerians you know and stakeholders within the industry so that we can come out with a proper solution to this problem 800 million dollars it's a drop in the ocean we are talking about 50 million at home you know 50 million 10 million households 50 million Nigerians yeah 10 million also a 10 10 million households which is about 50 million Nigerians out of a population of over 200 million how many Nigerians are without a bank that would tell you the extent you can easily gauge the extent of Nigerians outside you know even this uh catchment area uh you go by cbn figure the cbn told imf that only 45 percent of Nigerians are within the financial system so basically you are talking about 55 percent of Nigerians in the rural areas or in the creeks you know who are almost not stakeholders in their own economy so that would translate to about 10 120 million so the 800 million dollars is a drop in the ocean it will not basically fix the roads it will buy the buses but those buses will within a short time you know become a nicer because of the state of our roads our roads are not safe but this particular phone according to the minister is there's going to be a cash transfer so it's like you're handing over cash you know to this number of persons at the end of the day but again just as we cost this down because we're out of time i'd like to ask you uh what do you make of the rationale that we have to borrow you know to cushion the effect of a policy which is the removal of subsidy what do i think of what what do you make of you know the the action of government borrowing to fund a certain policy which is making uh measures available to mitigate the effect of subsidy removal so one policy taking another policy action the fact that we're borrowing to fund this particular action what do you make of it oh okay yeah when you look at we've already borrowed so much to the extent that we are finding it difficult to pay back is one of the reasons why government wants to uh now increase the price of petrol with a view which they call removal of subsidy with a view to be able you know to run government businesses and also pay off the debts part of the debts which um we we have borrowed so to now borrow from world bank though they call it a grant um we have not been told whether that grant is in form of loan or whether it's a partnership grant or whether it's uh it's attracting low interest rate we don't know or whether it's just sector we don't know the details are not yet out there in the public but what seems very clear to me is that borrowing at this stage of our life should not even be a notion when we have to deal with the issue of solving the economic challenges we're facing the country is already over-ordered you know by debt even though our debt ratio to GDP is still within the tolerable limit but the fact of the matter is the repayment and the fact that we are a mono economy our own foreign exchange and uh is oil and it is not reliable the prices can go up and come down anytime and that can create problems for the country to make repayment this is precisely the reasons why we like the foreign exchange not to even allow the airlines to evacuate um their whole revenue from our own country so I don't think you should be going ahead with borrowing there's nothing wrong with borrowing if it can repeat itself but if you are borrowing to give money to people in terms of them and out you know to 10 million or so I don't think that is right because that is you are borrowing to consume you are not borrowing to invest beyond the show me we have to go at this point in time thank you so much it's been a delight having you share your thoughts on this particular issue then we're hoping that the government will pay attention to some of the issues that you've raised and then maybe we'll probably might just have you know a better one at the end of a day thank you once again thank you for having me alright then that's the size of our conversation the end of it at this point in time the breakfast I appreciate that you have been part of the show from seven o'clock up until now we will be joining the newsroom at nine o'clock for the news brief now and if you missed out on any part of the conversation that's on the breakfast we ask that you follow us on facebook twitter instagram subscribe to youtube channel at plus tv africa plus tv africa lifestyle my name is messier booboo have a great morning