 Good afternoon. I'm Attorney General T.J. Dunovan. How are you? Good. With me today is Aaron Segris from the Vermont Retailers and Grocers Association, Kelly Stoddard-Porr from AARP, Tom Torti from the Lake Champlain Chamber of Commerce, Matt Coda from the Fuel Dealers Association, Austin Davis from the Chamber of Commerce, as well as Chris Curtis and Jamie Renner from my Consumer Protection Team. I'm joined also by Charity Clark, my Chief of Staff. We're here today to talk about consumer protection and business protection during the coronavirus crisis that we are involved in, not only in this state, this country, but the world. And the most important thing that I want to say from the Attorney General's standpoint is this, that we're all in this together, that we're going to stand up to protect Vermont consumers, which include Vermont businesses under Vermont law, that Vermont is a small place, that the business community we're in direct contact with, making sure that consumers are going to be protected, that the business, that the small business people in this state of Vermont are our friends, are our neighbors, they're going to do right by you, and that consumers are going to be protected during this time. And when we talk more about scams and other resources under Vermont law, we are committed to work with every business in this state that needs our help to partner with them, to give them the resources they need, the help they need, should they need it, to tell Vermont consumers that they can call us at 649-2424, if they think they're a victim of a scam, that we are going to protect them as well. But mostly in this time of crisis, where people are understandably anxious to be calm, to use common sense, and to let us do our job, which is to do consumer protection and to stand up and protect Vermonters. So with that, I want to turn it over to Aaron Seagress from the Vermont retailers and grocers to say a few words. I know a lot of folks have been going to stores to get goods, totally appropriate to be prepared, but I know that Ms. Seagress will say a few words about that balance that we're seeking to strike here in Vermont. So Aaron, with that, let me turn it over to you, and thanks for being here. I'm Aaron Seagress, President of the Vermont Retail and Grocers Association. I want to thank the Attorney General for having us, and of course, working with retailers across the state. We represent general retailers, grocers, and everything in between. So we do appreciate, again, the partnership with the Attorney General's Office. We do understand that consumers are wanting to plan, whether it's for a couple weeks at home or just a couple days at home. We are asking that you do so responsibly, though, plan for two to three weeks at most instead of two to three months. We're seeing a lot of stockpiling of the necessities, and that just eliminates some of the access to other consumers that also need to maintain some hygiene as well. So again, you're welcome to stock up on non-perishables as well as long-term or long-standing perishables, as well as obviously pharmacy and personal hygiene items. But again, we ask that you do so for two to three weeks, rather than months. Again, we appreciate the Attorney General's Office for having us here today, and we're always here to help. We are your friends and neighbors, as the Attorney General did share, and retailers are here to provide services for you, and we're here to help you guys. So thank you very much. Thank you. We look forward to working with you and all Vermont retailers and grocers and small business people. Next, Tom Torti from the Lake Champlain Chamber of Commerce, who represents the majority of businesses here in Sheenan County and throughout the state. Tom. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General and everyone else for being here today. I'm not going to echo what other folks have said. I'll only point out that Vermont businesses are by and large owned by Vermonters. They're owned by your neighbors, and each one of us has an interest in doing what has always distinguished Vermont businesses, which is that Vermonters take care of Vermonters, and we're seeing that over and over again with how businesses are responding. One of the things that really heartens me, and I hope it kind of echoes throughout the state of Vermont, is that we are really concerned about some of our hourly employees, folks really at the lower end of the wage scale, who often feel that's not possible for them to take time off from work in order to take care of themselves or to take care of their family. And at this time, when it's a little bit different than your basic cold and it is not your flu, despite what folks in Washington D.C. want to say, we're seeing businesses coming together beginning to talk about how do we make sure that we preserve the income of people at the lowest end, and how do we convince these people and have these people understand that if you're sick, if your family member is sick, if you have to quarantine in place, you're not going to lose your job. And really that is the heart and soul of Vermont Vermonters taking care of Vermont. So I am heartened by the business community's response. We are not all the multinational corporations that we hear people rail about on the national platform. We're Vermonters, Vermont businesses taking care of Vermonters, and I'm proud to represent them. Thank you. Thank you, Tom. Well said. That's what we do best in Vermont as we take care of each other. And I really appreciate, Tom, your words about making sure those who perhaps don't have the resources like everybody else are going to be taken care of during this time. That's what's best about our state. Next, I'd ask Matt Coda from the fuel dealers to say a few words, Matt. Matt Coda from the Vermont Fuel Dealers Association. I'd also like to thank the Attorney General for calling in the businesses to talk about these important issues. Most of the people that deliver fuel to your home are run by local businesses. They're locals that deliver heating fuel and motor fuels throughout the state. And we're certainly seeing fear out there. We're also seeing an abundance of caution. And I think an abundance of caution is appropriate, but when it comes to heating fuels for your home, when it comes to motor fuels, there is plenty of supply. But we are hearing comments from customers wondering, you know, what happens if the situation gets worse? Will they be able to get fuel their home? And the answer is yes. You know, delivering fuel is largely a solitary endeavor. It's a person, a man or woman in a truck, delivering fuel to a tank without much contact with others. There's plenty of supply out there and just put people's mind at ease. But similar to what Aaron said, you know, if you don't get fuel right when you order it, it's not because of any other reason other than that there's a lot of customers out there. It's still cold and people do need heating oil and propane. Thank you, Matt. Next I'll ask Kelly Stardard-Pore from AARP to say a few words. Kelly. Thank you. AARP certainly shares the concerns of the Attorney General and other organizations and businesses here to be on the lookout of any price gouging or businesses taking advantage of consumers in this way. Sadly, scammers are using the coronavirus headlines and public fears as opportunities to steal money or sensitive personal information. AARP has been working to help consumers stay safe from scammers for many years now. So we are not surprised to see new criminals exploiting the current crisis. The approaches can come from the internet. They can come from your email account, your phone, or even the U.S. mail. The Federal Trade Commission and the Food and Drug Administration have already sent warnings to seven companies for selling products that would allegedly cure or prevent the coronavirus. There are currently no vaccines nor drugs to prevent or treat the virus. We urge consumers to ignore online offers that claim to have any treatment or cure. A few tips and cautions that we would like to share with Vermonters be on the lookout for requests for donations to help people affected by the coronavirus. Ask the caller to send information by mail and to defer any decision to give a donation to a cause until you've researched it. Good online resources include CharityNavigator.org and Give.org. Be aware that links or texts from sources that you do not know cause malicious software viruses to be downloaded onto your device. Pause to consider the credibility of the source before you click. Be suspicious of any emails claiming to be from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC, or experts saying that they have breaking news or information about the virus. Emails from local, state, and federal government will come from an address ending in .gov. Be cautious of anyone asking for money for coronavirus victims or for disease research, especially if they are prepaid credit cards or gift cards. Ignore phone calls or emails from strangers using urging you to invest in the latest hot coronavirus stock. We urge Vermonters to seek out information from the CDC, from the World Health Organization, and for coronavirus-related scams from the Federal Trade Commission. And we thank Attorney General Donovan for his leadership on this. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. And, Kelly, I want to thank you for articulating those supposed scams. When we're talking about consumer protection, we're going to certainly deal with those scams. And Vermonters who think they're victims of a scam should call us at 649-2424. 649-2424. We are tracking these types of scams as well. Also, under our law, our consumer protection law, we will talk about price gouging and the specific Vermont statute that applies. But also unfair and deceptive acts, which would be the law that we would use if we think folks are taking advantage of Vermont consumers or Vermont businesses. I want to be very clear that Vermont businesses are considered consumers under our law, and we will protect Vermont businesses as well. So with that, I want to ask Chris Curtis, Chief of my Public Protection Division, to come up and give a quick overview of our consumer protection laws, not only the price gouging law, but the unfair and deceptive act statute under Vermont law. Chris. Thank you so much, General Donovan. And thank you, everyone, for being here today to discuss this important topic. My name is Christopher Curtis. I'm the Chief of the Public Protection Division at the Office of the Attorney General. And what you're hearing is a call for calm, common sense, and consumer protection. That's why we're here today. And when we talk about calm and common sense, we're really talking about restraint. And what you've heard here already today from people representing the business community, our Vermont friends and neighbors in the retail grocery stores, and other stores across Vermont, is exercise some common sense and restraint in your purchasing habits. Plan ahead, yes. But don't take advantage if you're stockpiling a year's worth of items. It's just not appropriate to the size and scale of the crisis before us, which we're currently calling for two to three weeks of planning ahead, because your friends and neighbors also need access to those same supplies. So it's thinking ahead, planning ahead, but exercising a little caution and restraint. And on the side of the business community, we're asking for a little restraint and making sure that prices aren't driven up so high without any nexus or connection to actual cost that could constitute a price gouging claim or concern. And we know that our Vermont business community is looking out for their friends and neighbors. You know them by name. You know them by your connection to your community. We have not received price gouging complaints about Vermont businesses to date, but we are watching the space. And we're very aware that there have been national reports about price gouging during times of crisis. And this office will not stand for it. So the Attorney General has tasked us with looking carefully at this, providing guidance to the business community on this topic and making sure that we handle every complaint with the alacrity with which it deserves during this time of crisis. To the general's point, we have two statutes in play here. One is with respect to fuel prices. And there is a specific price gouging statute on point that acknowledges that after a declaration of emergency by the governor for a period of time and up to seven days in advance of that declaration, fuel prices cannot unreasonably or unconsciously be raised. Again, we have not heard complaints at this time about that kind of conduct. And we know that our friends and the fuel dealers and other distributors around the state are very mindful about those conditions and would take care to not be charging excessive or unscrupulous rates of their customers. On the other hand, as to other essential goods and services, we have our Consumer Protection Act, which guards against unfair practices in commerce. So during a time of emergency or health crisis, as we're facing today, any unconscionable increase in the cost of a necessity may trigger our Consumer Protection Act. And we will be vigilant. We are watching the space and we will make sure that Vermonters are not taken advantage of by national operators or outside forces outside of Vermont. And of course, our friends in the Vermont community are here today to say that they wouldn't stand for that either. So we're mindful and we're paying attention to this space and we urge Vermonters to use their common sense as together we weather this crisis. Thanks. Thanks, Chris. Any Vermonter who has a question? Again, I'm going to give that number 649-2424 is the best way to get in touch with us. Any Vermont business can call that number as well. We stand ready to assist all Vermonters during this time. We also stand ready to defend and protect Vermonters during this time. We understand people are nervous. We understand people are anxious. And we stand ready to do our job. So with that, let me close the remarks and open it up for questions if there are any. You talked about no price. Has there been any complaints about email scams from Vermonters yet? We haven't seen email scans. What we're seeing and I'll let Chris talk about is the online third party. Sure. Thank you. Great question. And to date, my understanding is our consumer assistance program has received three complaints, really within the last 24 to 48 hours of alleged price gouging online. These would be from third party vendors through a platform. And so we'll follow up with that. And we're in contact with the platform and we'll be following up on any complaints by any Vermont consumer with respect to unscrupulous pricing. Obviously, as in any circumstance, we would want to gather all the facts and information before us to make sure that we're exercising proper judgment and and following up with all due diligence. I just don't quite understand what third party platform. Yeah, sure. So an online, not the sellers themselves per se, but it could be an eBay, it could be an Amazon, etc. And there are news reports out there about Amazon is really trying to be diligent in this space. They are looking at their third party vendors, the people who are the sellers, but they use their platform to make sure that there are not price gouging. They actually have a fair pricing policy that all of their vendors have to subscribe to so they can delist somebody almost in real time if they get complaints and can verify that price gouging is occurring. So that's one mechanism just by way of example, that we can leverage to reach out to platforms to say, hey, if we're getting Vermont complaints, you got to investigate and you got to exercise your policy and either stop those sales or get those vendors out if they are in fact bad actors. Can you say what those vendors are? No, like I said, we need to collect all the information. I'm just aware that we've received just literally in the last 24 hours, three complaints through third party vendors online. These are not Vermont businesses to my knowledge. The complaints came from Vermont. Yes, for retailers, for the retail folks, was just wondering, everybody has an empty shelf right now for good lords to hand sanitizer, all that kind of stuff. Have you heard from your members and such as to restocking? Can they get restocking? That's a good question. Yeah, so we have heard from members that there is certainly access to the products. It may take a little bit longer for retailers to restock some of those products. A retailer has to order the products and then the distributor needs to order them from the wholesaler. So it might take a little bit longer than normal, but there's certainly enough product out there. It may just take an extra day or two to get back onto the shelf. But products are available. I was actually in a grocery store yesterday pretty early in the morning and the shelves were full. So it depends on the time that you stop and try to pick products up. So you might have to re-plan or move a couple of events around, but you can just make changes to your daily practices and you should be able to find products within the stores, yes. I guess maybe for Tom or anyone who wants to take it, businesses like restaurants that rely on customers probably get to see a draft of people coming in. I guess how should they prepare for that and what can sort of those business owners expect? You know, I think as the, and we had a discussion about this this morning, as this virus begins to escalate, as we know it will based on what Dr. Fauci said yesterday. I think people are going to be more reticent to go out to restaurants and bars and places like that. So there will be a drop-off and I think that's where both the federal government and the state government need to begin looking at no interest loans or grants to companies that can document that, here's their normal book of sales for this period of time, here's what's happened during this crisis period and begin to look at that. It would be nice if that happened on a federal level. I mean, there are some things that are being talked about that really don't get down to the, if you will, the mom and pop level stores. And I think there are some folks in Washington talking about a more bricks-and-mortar, nuts-and-bolts type of type of response. It would be good to see that. I think we're going to see a drop-off. I think the state's going to see a drop-off in tax revenue as well when you get to rooms and meals tax and things like that. I mean, with the margins of some restaurants and so on, is it going to be necessary, you think, or is it not there yet? I don't think we're there yet, but I think just like this virus, it is so much better to prepare for things being bad than to wish, hope, and pray that make-believe is going to happen. Serendipity is going to rain down upon our heads. Let's prepare for the worst. And if we don't need, if you will, a disaster relief bill coming out of Washington like we had after the fiscal crisis of 2008, then we don't have to use it. But just like having vaccines, tests ready for people would have been better to have those test kits ready than to do the, you know, the Texas two-step and try to get them out to people, which is what we're doing now. We talked about businesses for people only preparing for a couple weeks at a time, not months at a time. Give businesses a couple rules in place that allow people, customers only buy, you know, six sanitizers or two sets of wipes instead of just buying whatever they want at that certain time. You're giving me all the hard questions. So yes, retailers are already putting signs out. Some retailers are asking you to be cognizant that others do need access as well to these products. So yes, retailers have started to put signs out. It's not a mandate. It's not required. But I think that they are trying to do the best to serve all of their community and all of their customers as well. So that's why we ask, please plan for two to three weeks, not two to three months. Again, the products are out there. It just might be, it might take a little bit longer to get them because right now everybody is trying to plan much farther in advance than necessary. Can I just share a story on that point? So I was literally walking into the building this morning. I ran into a friend and neighbor and she shared with me in not overly distressed but just mild concern. She said, you know, I went to the pharmacy. I was looking for a hand sanitizer. I just wanted to buy one bottle and they were out. So I asked the pharmacist, like, what happened? She said, you just missed it. The person that came in before you just bought the last 12 bottles. And she's like, really? They need to buy 12 bottles and I couldn't even get one for me and my family. So it's about, I think as Vermonters we all share Vermont values and the call for some common sense and calm is to practice that restraint, to live those Vermont values of understanding that we're all friends and neighbors. We all share these common community spaces and to the extent that there's a basic need for everyone right now to practice some caution with respect to this virus, just be mindful. Be aware and that will actually reduce the need for retailers to set limits because people can set some common sense limits for themselves. Could you comment on the extent to which your offices have been in touch with neighboring state offices and level cooperation as associated with SCAM? Sure. We work very closely with our colleagues across this nation in terms of many issues. And I've been on calls with my colleagues, certainly talking about what their plans in terms of price gouging and other public protection and consumer protection strategies are. I know that Chris has reached out at his level to his colleagues about making sure when we're talking about really the digital marketplace that's going to be a national issue. So it happens every day and it's probably increased a little bit these past couple days to make sure that we're communicating. Look, in these times communication from top to bottom is key and we're doing it every single day and making sure that we're on top of everything so we can do our job which is to protect the monitors. Why don't I close this? I'll come see you. Either way. Great. You mentioned that the rock businesses are also covered by consumer protection. Can you explain that to your network? I consider consumers. Yeah. Yeah. And so not to put too fine a point on it, but businesses are consumers, right? They buy things. They have to be in the marketplace. The Consumer Protection Act would apply to them as consumers for the business's use but not for resale, right? So it's not as though the retailer is buying from a wholesaler in order to resell a product and so then in anticipation of whatever the pricing or contractual agreements are that that transaction is covered by the CPA. It's not for resale that the business is covered as a consumer. So the business is looking to purchase wipes or sanitation products and services at a time like this. They have the same protections as anybody else in the marketplace when it comes to those kinds of purchasing decisions and we don't want businesses to be taken advantage of either as they're trying to keep the premises clean and sanitary. So just by, that's one small example, but we're mindful of that. It's one of the reasons why when General Donovan came into office, he tasked our division and the Consumer Assistance Program with developing a small business outreach person to build that relationship and those connections and to really make it clear that we are a resource for the Vermont business community. There was also a mention of workers wanting to call in sick. What protections are there for workers who want to or need to call in sick? Are there any laws? Well you have earned sick time and in fact I think we'll be putting out some guidance later today to small businesses and consumers on our website. There's a lot about earned sick time and you should go to our website and look and I think Tom Torti said this best. It's in our collective best interest and in our collective public health that if people are sick they should stay home and I know Vermont businesses are mindful that people still have to pay the bills and whether or not we need government to step in and make sure that businesses are compensated for doing the right thing that's something I'm certainly going to be supportive of. This is a public health crisis and people who are sick need to stay home but we also acknowledge that people who are not working need to still be able to pay their rent, their mortgage, get food on the table for their kids and so that underscores the point that we're all in this together, we're a community and we have to help each other out to get through this and that's why we're standing up here today. Not always natural partners in this space but it doesn't really matter. We need to come together at this time and demonstrate that we are going to work together for the best interests of Vermont and Vermonters but if people are sick it is clear you gotta stay home and I know Vermont businesses are going to do the right thing then it's up to government to do the right thing for business on that. Are there protections in government for somebody who calls in sick but doesn't have paid sick time? There's earned sick time and that's a longer discussion. There's some civil rights areas that we can discuss about but it's complicated and it's governed by obviously the facts of each case but I would say this that when it comes to employment and civil rights you can call our office. I'm now going to give you another number unfortunately because we will handle employment issues in the civil rights realm and that is 828-3171. We are happy to answer the questions as best we can. I am reluctant to give bright line legal rules because every case is different based on the facts and based on people's status but we stand ready to to help people provide information so people can make informed decisions about their life but we get out of this together we get out of this helping each other and acting as a community with the business community who are going to be critical to this endeavor. So I want to thank Tom and Mad and Aaron for being here and of course I want to thank Kelly as well from AARP for talking about scams. We know this scams are going to happen when there's a crisis folks try to take advantage of other folks we're not going to let that happen we're going to protect for monitors and do our job. Thanks for being here.