 Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you can hear me. Welcome to Asia School of Business. This is our first webinar in a series. As you can imagine, this is a very interesting time for all of us. So I really appreciate you being here. I hope the traffic on the way to this webinar was okay and you didn't get stuck into too much of it. Allow me to give you an introduction. My name is Loredana Padurian. I will be a panelist and a moderator for today's session. And together with my guest, Mr. Lee Lungin, the CEO of Citibank Barhart and my colleague, Professor Michael Freese, Professor of Management, we're inviting you to join us in this conversation. We would like to think a bit more of a dialogue and I'm gonna take notes throughout this process. We will ask you kindly to mute your mics, mute your videos and type the questions in the chat box that you're gonna see there. I'm going to try to capture as many of the notes in the comments and keep everybody happy. Now we have a screen of Professor Freese who's with us and I will invite Mr. Lungin to also turn on his camera. So before I do that, I just wanna take a moment to say that this is a really, really interesting time for all of us. And I think even a month ago, let alone two months ago or three months ago, who could have imagined that we live this reality? And I know a lot of people are saying that it's very hard to work from home. I have to say myself, I thought Zoom was fun in the beginning. Now after having eight meetings of Zoom every day, I think, hmm, maybe not so cute, but I hope we all realize that we are the lucky ones. We are the very, very lucky ones who can be here who don't have to be on the frontline, who are not medical workers, who are not policemen, who are not grocery people, who are not people who have to sacrifice every single day of their well-being for this. So I would like to ask everybody a favor. For the only time in this webinar today, I want, if possible, everybody to turn on their cameras and turn on your audios. So if you can- I don't want to understand more about your camera. Not on your camera. Yeah, you understand me about the camera. It's not about the camera. I like to do it together. I would like to take a little video. Okay, okay. Talk to anyone about this. Oh, not brown. Thank you. Hello. Hello. Everyone speaks. Everyone speaks. That's the idea. So you are actually, it's like you with- I'm very surprised. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. Can you give me the microphone? Sure, yes. Yeah, she got everyone. What he got? What he got? Yeah, you're going to get- I never know. All right. Thank you for coming. Do you have a camera? No, we don't have a camera. No. We don't have a camera. I don't have a camera. No. No, we don't have a camera. So now do the mic. You can touch the camera and you can touch the camera. Yeah, definitely not. But in general, it's the end of this. Okay, thank you so much. So, let's get started and the format of this meeting will take place as follows. Because we're trying to have a very simple format, we will have two questions for each speaker, maybe two questions of four-minute pitch. We will also take four or five questions from the audience. So once again, please type your questions in the chat box. We will select your questions. And then, like I said, please turn off your mics, please turn off your cameras. I really appreciate seeing everybody. Nice red t-shirt. I can see one lady right now wearing one. Beautiful beach image, but let's not get distracted. And also, we were told by multiple telco suppliers that the network is very unstable. So what we would love for you to do is do not interject in audio and video throughout the webinar, but type the questions in the box. And remember, there's always a technical error, so I have a feeling we're going to have at least one today. Is that okay? All right. So let's get started. I also typed the questions on the screen so people who cannot hear as well, they can see this. We're going to start with Mr. Lung, the fabulous, the well-known, the extraordinary Mr. Lung, who's a friend of ASB for a long time and the CEO of Citibank. So I can only imagine, Lung, that you had a really complicated journey in the past couple of weeks, right? So you talk a lot about leaderships. I've seen you speak in your public speaking engagements and you're an amazing speaker. But can you tell us a little bit and try to use maybe real examples? How did your leadership change in your term? Well, firstly, thank you for having me on. It's always a privilege to speak at ASB. It is an honour for me to be here today. Now, you know, I've been through a couple of crises, right? I mean, I've been sitting for 30 years and so I've seen quite a few Asian financial crises, the global financial crisis, and then now this one, right? Which is a big, big, big one, pretty much similar to SARS, but this is a lot bigger. One of the things that I've realised and learned over the years, right? These are all managers should, all leaders should think about this. I've got basically about five things that I look at and the things that I've changed and be more focused on. The first one is in situations like these, where it's, you know, very hookah, right? Volatile, complex, uncertain, complex, you know, ambiguous world, right? We said, or I've said very clear short term objectives, because if you think, you know, I don't know what's going to happen end of the year, right? So for me and my leadership team, the first thing I've done is short term objectives, what used to be a month or even year out your strategies, it's now daily and weekly, right? Set timelines, they are clear, quantifiable. We do that every day and we have to track them. So that's the first thing that I have done, right? Whatever needs to be done, it's daily, it's weekly, right? The next thing is the teams that we work with. You know, we use the term war room. Now, war room sounds great, right? Like everybody getting there, everyone trying to solve the problem. But let me tell you, big war rooms, like you see in movies, right? Where the general, you know, combining his troops, it doesn't work in situations like this. I used to have a 16 man management team. I still do, but when it comes to decision making and all, my teams are now tactical. My daily team that I work with is a four man team. My ONT head, my service head, a senior operations officer and myself. And we meet twice a day. And why is this the case? Very simple term, right? If you have too many cooks in the room, you get confused. There's too much information coming in. Some of them, you're not sure whether it's real. So in situations like these where decisions need to be made, you know, how many people work from home, what sort of equipment people need. You need to be nimble. Things are fluid. Ben Ngarra comes out with a new policy. How do you dispute that? Decisions need to be fast. If you've got, you know, 15 people in the room, everyone having an opinion. It's going to be very difficult. And for myself, I need to be able to hear people's feedback. But at the end of the day, I still need to make fast decisions. It's all, I'll use a military term, right? It's all about command and control. Because if you've got many people saying a lot of things in situations of confusion, you know, nothing gets done. Really, everyone's running around in circle. So it's important that whatever problem that comes to the table, it's broken up into bite size, break up the problem. We, a common point that we would make to each other is, okay, we need to make the decision here. Can we meet in three hours time? Everything, all timelines are shortened. Right? I have this saying 20 years ago, tomorrow is too late. And it actually works now, right? You have to have a decision made within the hour or within the day. Right? Next thing is making fast decisions, right? In the past, we would sit around the table, debate. Everyone has an opinion. And then, okay, I'll think about it. Let's, I'll circle back to you. It's very hard to make that sort of decisions today. You know, you don't have that luxury of time because you would have Bang Ngarra, for example, who is our regulator. They want things done fast because they've got to work with the entire industry. You've got out up the chain all the way up to New York. Giving directions, how many people working from home? What sort of equipment you need done? Everything needs to be done fast, shorter timelines. Everything has been compressed. So I will have to make that call. Now, the other thing is this, whatever decisions that I've made, and I've made many decisions over the last two weeks, or actually six weeks, may not be perfect, right? But what happens is that the journey that you go along, you refine it along the way, right? So that's very important. Another thing that I've done over the last six weeks is to over-communicate. It's very important because staff, now, City runs a team of about close to 5,000, right? Staff still need to be loved. Now, majority of people are working from home. They need to know they are still part of the team, that they are not forgotten. They're still loved and that it is important that they feel that they are still contributing. And that's very important because everybody is working from home nowadays, right? So they're isolated. They don't hear what's going on. In the past, information used to come through formal channels and informal channels. So for me, I communicate at least twice a week. I send out an email telling what's going on. I've got O&T head communicating as well. So HR also sends out emails, reminders. So it's very, very important. It's important that whatever fake news that's out there, you must be able to distill it. What is fake news? What is real? And then communicate. And then last but not least, not necessarily with the bank. When you're in a war room or in a situation or crisis, you've got to use things that are out of the norm. You've got to think outside of box, alternate solutions, right? So if in the past you used to get your tech team to put together a program to program something for you, they'll take three months to get it done for you. That's not going to happen in a situation like this, right? So if you can go out and buy something out of the box that does not compromise security, does not compromise data privacy, use those things. In times of war, you've got to use things that are at your disposal. Now, the other thing that I've also done is, so I'm also part of Motorsport Singapore, right? So I've got a staff that's been working with us for 20 years. She's been doing the same thing. Does it very well for the last 20 years? So I said close the office because no one's coming in. But then what about people who need to collect their licenses? They come in and go, I said, you know, there's this simple solution. Have you heard of this thing called the mail? So we would send out, and she looked at me and says, oh, yeah, it's such a simple solution, right? But sometimes we forget, we get confused because there's a lot of things going around us. So, you know, those five things that I needed to change myself, to change my leadership style a little. Yeah, so over back to you. Thank you so much. I took a lot of notes, but I'm going to pass the mic to Professor Priest. And like I said, you're an expert in leadership in crisis psychology. What immediate adjustments should companies make in their leadership strategy to adjust to this crisis? And I think Mr. Lung already addressed some of them. He talked about five things. So I'm going to ask if you can talk about five things from your perspective that they should do. And again, I'll take notes. Let me just send a reminder to everybody who's listening in. Please turn off your mics, turn off your camera. And we will take questions at the end. So type on the side box, you will see a type, a chat box. Type your question. I promise my, even our president is typing questions in the box, so we will get to you. Professor Priest, what do you think? Thank you. Mr. Jung, you were already so good. It's very hard to add something to that. I think the major issue is indeed the time perspective. But let me come back to some of the scientific literature on reaction to crisis. And one of the bigger problems is that typically organizations start to develop a threat rigidity cycle, which means the following. You're under threat and you immediately start to constrict control. You start to, as you also say, because of time constraints, you centralize many things and you forget the emotional side of the problem. And I think you were very nicely said that people still feel loved, need to feel loved by the organization, by you as a CEO. And I think that's extremely important because you're so much oriented towards the problems as a leader in this situation that you sort of forget everything else and you constrict. And what you typically do is, of course, you go with your first intuition. And usually the first intuition is good, but it can be wrong. Because the first intuition is, of course, that we say we have to concentrate on the problems only and we don't have to concentrate on the problems for the organization only and we don't concentrate on the problems that individuals have. So what do people feel in a crisis situation? They feel confused. There is nothing that works anymore in the same way as it used to. Everything is new. Gloria Diana was telling me that I should really get used to WhatsApp now from now on every second of the day. I hate WhatsApp. So the point is we have to start to change the way we do things. So in a way, we are now under time constraints in an organizational change situation. And one of the biggest things there, and you already alluded to that, is we make a lot of mistakes. Everyone makes a lot of mistakes. The employees, the leaders, and we have to be, in a way, it's an exercise in humbleness. This is very strange because you actually want, in war situations, you want a non-humble leader. You want somebody who says, I can do anything. But in principle, you want somebody who can say, oh, I'm wrong. I don't know the answer yet. But at this moment, we are trying this approach. And I think this is very, very important as a leader and as leadership in general and as manager. But what do you think, Gloria Diana, in terms of your entrepreneurship background, what do you think is important from an entrepreneurial perspective in this city? Thank you so much, Michael, for those questions. And actually for the comments, you gave me a little bit of goosebumps when you were talking. So when Mr. Loong started talking about his strategy, short-term goals, quantifiable and trackable, short teams, fast decision making, hear people out, but make decisions and make them fast, over communicate, think outside of the box. I was thinking, are we teaching a course in entrepreneurship? Because that's exactly what we tell startups to do. And that's exactly what startups do. That's what young companies do. They have to do that because they don't have the rich resources that very large companies like Citibank, Kazana, a bank they've got to have. So they have to think very short-term goals because they actually don't know what tomorrow, if they have a tomorrow, is going to look like. Most of the time, these companies have a very small people team. So there's a limited number of resources there. So as I was reflecting for the past couple of days about this situation, I realized that having a strong entrepreneurial mindset will help a lot of these companies. And to go back to Michael's points, which I wrote down, it's also this people-centricity versus problem and system-centricity that matters a lot, right? People still need to feel loved. I love the way you said that, Nong. And love is, actually, I'm going to bring that up in the next question that I have for you, Michael, when we talk about the psychology of people. But I think there has to be a centricity towards people. Maybe find ways to revise a lot of the processes that we have. I'm driving myself and my team crazy these days because I constantly tell them, do we have to have 17 steps in this process today? Or can we make it four? And actually, one of my very, very beloved colleagues who's a former student of ASB said, can we make it the one-step process? And I was like, wow, is that the most intense and ambitious goal ever? But yeah, maybe it's not a one-step process, but maybe we can reduce it from 17 to five. So my perspective is that companies that are very, very large and they are used to work in this very planned, very complex, very sophisticated environment, almost like a tank ship, if you want. I use that analogy on my research. They have to learn how to go back to the basics. They have to remember what it was like to be a nimble, small, limited resources, young company, and find that entrepreneurial energy and harvest that energy to move forward. So let me, since we talked a little bit about entrepreneurship, let me go back to Lung, even though you cover some of these things, thinking a year ahead from now. And I don't know what this year is going to look like. There's a lot of discussions that if everybody takes extreme measures of social distancing, we will see a slowdown in the COVID impact. But they also talk that like every other flu, like every other virus, it has a cycle, so it might come back. So without really thinking about that, how corporate leadership will change, let's say a year from now? So let me think. You know, this crisis is going to hit everybody. And I'm saying everybody very hard, right? So what we are doing now is actually going to be a test of what the future holds and how we do business going forward and how leadership will change. Give me an example, webinars. What we are doing now, let me tell you, this is the first webinar I'm actually doing in my entire life. So, and I won't be surprised that I will be asked to do more, right? Because as companies struggle to make profits and all, they've got to find alternate ways of doing business of communication. So for sure, more video conferences, more video conferencing, more phone calls, rather than flying around the world. That's for sure. Okay, because we are living it, and I've been living this the last six weeks. I've done more video conferences across the globe than I have in the last 30 years working. Right, so this is going to be the norm. There'll be less face to face, right? And more will work from home. Yeah. Now, with more people working from home, you will realize that office costs, right? Office costs are always very high. And if someone can be just as efficient at home as compared to being in the office, why not work from home? So, you know, I see that as a big change as well. Another thing is companies will be investing more in technology. I've, for one, now I've got this home set up here, right, video. I'm trying to think, oh, how do I get my voice more crisp? Right? Do I need a better mic? And this is for myself. So, I think companies will invest more in tech to help people communicate better, because I think it'll be a lot cheaper than flying around the world. One more thing. I think companies will take their COB continuity of business, your BOP, testing more seriously, right? I think in the past, everybody just went through the motion of testing, right? Your continuity plan. Oh, you know, you've got a alternate site. You've sent people, 10 people that, yep, the phone's working. Yep, the computer's working. Okay, we're done. Yep. Right? Oh, yeah. Right? So, I think all these things will change in the next one year. So, let me stop you here and we'll go to Michael next, but I just want to reflect a little bit on something that you said and stimulated the thought. Every time I'm supposed to have a meeting in the prior to COVID, I was supposed to have a meeting with a corporate client. They would invite me to their office or they would visit my office. I had a bunch of meetings with startups, and they would just send web links for webinars. And I'd be like, why? And they said, I'm sorry, but we don't really afford to go all the way to your office, and we don't really have time to socialize after this meeting, because we're really struggling to make the best out of every single minute that we have. And money, right? Because startups, they can't just burn cash, right? So they need to be efficient. And another observation that I have is, actually, it's a lot of comments that I see on social media, where they say, so it turns out that meeting in person now can be a web meeting. That web meeting can actually be an email. That email now can actually be a short email with a fast decision-making. So what I see, it's a change in behavior. And since Michael is talking about behavior a lot in his work, and he's actually assessing the psychology of people in a crisis, Michael, a year from now on, the same question to you. When we go back to an equilibrium, whatever that equilibrium looks like, what do you think the reality, the economic, the social, the healthcare reality is going to look like? Can you put on the video, because my video was turned off? Yeah, I think somebody's going to help you with the video, but we can hear you well. So go ahead. All right. So I think this is in a few years' time, or in a year's time, we will probably look back. And it will be a situation where we will ask the question, has the company done well enough under these circumstances? So it's in a way a trial period in which we all are, and whether we have actually dealt with the situation well enough under the circumstances. And again, people will sort of think this was an awful time, but there were also many things that were positive, feelings of solidarity, feelings of being together in this situation, et cetera. Also the kind of help that you were getting that may have been surprising to you. So the question then is, can you look back and say, we have done really well as a company? And I think this is the best and most important issue that we have to talk about. The second important issue is that we will indeed use the procedures that we have right now and so new technology, et cetera, webinars. All these kinds of things will be much more frequently used from now on. The last point that I want to make is, and I don't know whether you can see this, but I made this, my colleague of mine made this for me when I gave talks in 2006, 2007, and 2008, and 2009 on the economic crisis back then. And I thought this was really interesting, the idea that the same name, the same concept for crisis also means danger and opportunity. And I think this is the way we have to think about this whole thing. Now, obviously, at this moment, we concentrate on the survival issue, on the issue that this is often a life and death issue. But we also have to think back of the trial and of the opportunities that gives us. Thank you, Michael. I want to make a comment to something that Michael said about people will remember how their companies dealt with this crisis. So I want to give you two examples. One of them is very personal. One of my best friends works in New York and she works for a bank, for a very, very large bank. And they had to start working from home about 10 days ago, as everybody knows, New York is one of the hot spots of the COVID. And the memos that they got from their companies was that, well, since you're working at home now and you have plenty of time, we're going to increase your workload by almost twice as much. We expect everybody to be on video calls at all time. And we're going to extend your working hours because everybody has to pitch in and do more. Now, I don't really know who was in charge of making that decision without really considering the fact that, yes, you might be working from home, but if you have kids, which my friend has, your kids are also from home. She said, we're working now pretty much from 7 a.m. until 9 p.m. And I have kids crying around me who are telling me, Mommy, why can't you play with us? Mommy, why can't you make us lunch? Mommy, you're home. What are you doing here? So she was telling me, I can't wait for this to be over for me to resign and find a more humane company. And I was thinking, probably the rationale for having these people work over time is because you're afraid that if they are at home, they don't work. But then why are you afraid that people don't work when they are not in the office, right? So that goes into a bigger question. There's a big psychological issue around this whole homework, and I think that makes perfect sense. And then I've seen another example. I'm not going to name the company, but I've seen a recent case where a company did a massive layoff and the way they did it was by sending a robocall to the employees who got a link to join a webinar on Zoom. And when they linked on the webinar, they were told quite unceremoniously that they are fired and their services are no longer needed effective immediately. Now, Michael and Yolong, both you talked about the fact that people still need to feel love. And I feel like one of the things that will make companies survive or not in this time is how do they reach back into their humanity account? How will, we all understand that cuts will have to be made. People, resources, physical, etc. But I think it's how do you do that that will matter. I want to say one of the great things about ASVs, the day before we went on lockdown, our HR and finance did the impossible and send out paychecks, I think 10 days in advance because we all knew that we're going to have to deal with this. So I really want to see if there's anything that you guys can advise company in terms of this humane or humanity lens to do. And then I'm going to open the floor for questions. I already have a lot of questions here from the audience. So I'm going to pass that to you. But any final comments from or advice on how how we can increase this humane or humanity lens? Sure. Let me go first. You know, like all crisis, it will pass. It will pass. How we behave, how we conduct ourselves now, will be remembered. If the crisis is for six months, let me tell you, if we make bad decisions, bad people decisions, we will be remembered 10 years down the road. For the decisions that we made, right? Empathy, respect for staff, even in points of crisis, we need as leaders, we need to be able to control ourselves. Because that's one of the things, right? There are different types of leaders. They are the leaders that are really cool under pressure, right? Nothing phases them. Then there are the other types of leaders that just freak out, right? Start screaming because they cannot take the pressure and they take it out on staff. Right? So I advise all leaders, managers, supervisors, before opening your mouth, chastising the staff, take a deep breath, understand what the other side is going through at that moment, because everybody is in this crisis together and everybody is under pressure. Everybody wants to do their job. It's just that the circumstances around them have changed. So as leaders, take a step back, take a deep breath, make sure you listen, show empathy, show respect to your staff. Thank you for that. Michael, any comments to this? I think the general idea is put yourself into, as you said, put yourself into the shoes of your employees. Now, whatever you are doing, and I agree with that, is going to be sort of a test of how is this organization, how is this leader going to do in general? I think in addition, what you have to think about is how can you reduce the negative effect, the negative fears, the negative feelings that are around because of the fear of COVID? How can you sort of make sure that people are not constricted in their views because of this fear? And I thought, I heard a very nice song today by a guy whose name is Prince Yea, and he said, Be aware, be careful, but don't panic. So try to make this small difference between the panic and be at the same time aware of the dangers that exist. And I think once you have done this differentiation, you are going to be a bit better able to actually work through this situation. And can you help as a leader? Can anybody help as a leader? Yes, you can, by always making this differentiation, that yes, we are in a negative emotional state, but yes, we also have to think of how can we deal with the problems at hand. Thank you, Valf. I want to comment a little bit to this too. It's true, we are in a negative state, but I think in every situation, one of the things that I love about Asia is the principle of Yin and Yang, right? There's a dark side, there's a light side, and one of the things that I see today happening is in this darkness, there's so much, there's so many examples of extreme humanity. There's so many examples of people helping other people without any reasons, but just because they were there. I think again, I want to go back to my comment about companies who will show respect, like you said, who will show humility, who will show respect to their employees, will truly gain on the long term, because yes, you might have to lay off some people right away, or you might have to reduce some of your resources right away, but like every cycle, like every crisis, we will go back to the top and those who will go back to the top with a good, if you want, emotional positive investment in the people that they couldn't keep in the long term, they will be the ones who win. And we have so many examples, like I have a lot of, I've done a lot of work with some of the automotive industry and the automotive industry is constantly going through these cycles of depression and then success and a company like Toyota, for example, who has been extremely positive in keeping their supply liars engaged and supported in crisis, continue to show very successful financial sustainability on long term. So I'm going to ask Professor Fine to maybe select some of the questions. As I was listening through, we have literally dozens of questions anywhere related to the loss of job, bringing a workforce for from retirement. How do you communicate effectively? But I'm going to ask Professor Fine if you can use your audio, Charlie, and read some questions. For those of you who don't know, Professor Charles Fine or as we call him Charlie, he's our president and Dean. He took this very challenging task of selecting some questions. So Professor Fine, the floor is yours. Thank you, Laura Donna and thank you to the panelists for contributing to this program. So there are a lot of questions that have come out and trying to group them a little bit. There's a whole set of questions about work from home and the work from home questions. Let me let me put them into the following categories. How do you manage people working from home? How do you measure the work that people are doing from home? And how do you maximize the productivity of the people who are working from home? So how do you manage them? How do you measure them? And how do you maximize the productivity in this situation? Let me spot. We've got quite a few people working from home. So we know what their job specifics are. I have at my, in front of me, I've got a traffic light, right? Which 28 different departments which we consider critical. So a traffic light whether it's green, orange or red. And these different departments are tracked on their productivity, right? So if it's, for example, city form, you know, the calls coming in where you're supposed to pick up the calls, X number of seconds and all. We track all that. Everything is quantified. Whether or not you work from home or in the office, this has always been the case. There are trigger levels. There are service level agreements which we track. And everything's quantifiable. So every day, a mail sent out to the managers of these different divisions who will gauge based on their own service level agreements, trigger levels to come back with a traffic light. Whether it's going to, you know, if it's 80%, anything dropping below 80% goes to amber, all right, goes to orange. So on our side, we track everything. And that's the way we've always done it, both whether you're at home or at the office. Can I make a comment to this, Charlie? So a couple of months ago, first week of January, actually, right after we came back from some of the winter breaks, I was in discussions with two very, very, very large companies in Malaysia. And it was a very honest discussion. It was a very informative discussion for me. And one of the questions that I got in both meetings was, Prof, can you tell us what is this whole thing about digital transformation? There's so much talk about it. Like, but do you think we really need it? I mean, what if my company says we don't need to go through digital transformation? Like, why do we have to do this? And I said, you actually, you're right. You don't have to go through this, but just so you know, it will go through you. And I feel like if today anybody has any doubts that digital transformation is a reality, and digital transformation means creating systems, plans for managing a workforce that works from home or measuring the performance that works from home or setting up, like Lung said, setting up systems that allow you to have a mobile workforce or understanding how to make decisions in a much faster hybrid way, I think that everybody has to face the reality that digital transformation is happening as we speak. Oh, absolutely. So let me give you an example, right? If, you know, I'm not sure how many people are on this webinar at the moment. Three hundred and forty. How many? Three hundred and forty. Wow. Okay. That's amazing. You see, that's the thing, right? Take this, for example, right? You could never get a hundred and fifty people in a room, right? To pull them into Sasana Kijang, right? Or the Nike Jam. Yeah. But you can get three hundred and fifty people in this time of crisis because of technology. That's one, right? And if I were to ask the three hundred and fifty people in this room, how many, how many of you have actually walked into a bank, a branch to actually do banking? I would say only a handful. Most people would do their banking online. You can transfer money online. You can do it on your mobile phone. So that digital transformation, you know, has already happened in many industries, right? So to your point, thank you. Michael? I think it's important. Not everyone is, of course, in the same situation as you are at Citibank with extremely quantifiable types of performance indicators. So quite frequently, people have to sort of organize their work completely new when they start to work from home. And I think the example that you gave Floridana was an interesting one with your friend in New York. So we have to sort of ask the question, how can you actually make it better for yourself? How can you be more productive for yourself? And I think one of the big issues here is that you have to develop new routines, that you have to be very clear what are the routines. And given the fact that we are on lockdown, it is actually even more important that we know that we are a little bit in a situation where we need to, you know, like if you were in prison where you have to really make sure that you have your own routines and that it's not just something that is completely only determined by the outside world. And that I think is something that individuals have to worry about. Now the second point is that, of course, the more you have quantifiable parts to your work performance indicators, the better and the easier it is. But we also have to worry about to make everything quantifiable because often we know that there are certain kinds of things where it's not quite true that we can that we can know that it was precisely done in the type of, in terms of quality and in terms of the human factor as we think it was done. So this is an issue so we still have to talk about intrinsic motivation in this situation as well. Yeah, I was just thinking, as you said, Michael, that we need routines. Today it's the first time in two weeks I had to put on makeup. And I was like, oh, that completely changed my day, right? So let's take one more question. Professor Fine, if you can find a really good one. We're scheduled to finish right away, but I would suggest if we can stay maybe for 10 more minutes for people who are online who have to leave. Thank you so much. Just keep in mind that we will have a recording of this session that we will share with everyone. So Professor Fine, give us a really good question. Yeah, so this other question I think is very rich. It refers back to the references that several of the panelists made about war time versus peacetime processes. And the question was, and maybe that relates to entrepreneurialism as well. But the question is really, well, if war time processes are so good, why don't we do them all the time? Why do we even need peacetime processes? And what can we learn from this for not only for the war time that we're in, but for our ongoing way that we organize ourselves and work in our organizations? Okay, Michael, you can go first. Oh, you're very generous. You want me to go first. Usually you have a woman who takes up all the hard questions, right? Well, yeah. So I do think that we have to be very, very clear that we cannot continue with only homework and working from home. We cannot do that. We can also not only work for the next few days and make decisions for the next few days and the under time pressure. We can also not work under this kind of pressure where we only worry about the next few, the survival of the next few weeks. This is not going to be healthy. So we have to also come back to a sort of peacetime work environment again. And the peacetime work environment, of course, is to some extent that we meet again people. There is no way that we cannot have the human touch again. There is no way that we can completely get rid of the kind of human interactions that we have in a common meeting room, etc. Still, of course, we will be much more working through new technology. I agree with that. Digitalization will happen more. I agree with that a lot. I think if anything, and this could be my very entrepreneurial nature, we can learn a lot how to be faster and better and more effective. I grew up in East Europe. I grew up during communism. And to be honest, the past two weeks, this reality reminds me very much of growing up in a controlled society with rationalize everything. I have to admit, my house, it's nicer these days than it was a couple of that decades ago. But one of the things that we learn in my childhood during communism is how to make the best out of nothing and how to maximize a very, very limited number of resources in the best way possible. Loong, do you want to comment? Have a final comment of the day? And then maybe I'll ask Charlie to comment something since he's been listening so attentively to all this. So I think I agree with everybody what everyone has said. And we need to come to a balance. I don't think one or the other works full time for everybody. I think a balance will happen. We will learn from this wartime experience. I'll just use that analogy. This is wartime experience. We will learn from it and we will come out better. We will pick the things that made us stronger. We will develop better systems. We will share. And because like Michael said, I think the human touch, I've been working from home for the last 10 days, 15 days, and hardly speak to anybody. Face to face at least. And I probably won't be for another two weeks till this MCO is lifted. So that human touch during peacetime, I think, is something that's missing. And as I mentioned before, people need to be loved. It's very hard to love somebody over video. I'm sending everybody love, Jesse, you know, you are still loved people. Charlie, do you want to say something before we wrap it up? From your experience, I mean, just for everybody in the audience, Jesse, you know, Professor Fine, it's an expert in operations and supply chain management. At some point, we will have a webinar where we talk about how do we design resilient supply chains and how do we address the challenges that we have in terms of procurement, delivery, et cetera. Charlie, do you want to say something related to that or not? So yeah, in fact, there's a question that says, what about the people who can't work for home? For example, transportation of goods, passengers, supply chains. What's the solution for that? And I think, as we know, the government has said, there are some industries that are critical and need to continue to run. And one of them is food supply chains. So all the way down from the farmers in the field to the truckers who bring their food to the warehouses, to the supermarket shopping service providers. That's a supply chain that can't work from home, but that has to continue to work. And the government has to support the health and well-being of all the people in that chain because if any one link in that chain breaks, then food won't make it into your home during this time period. So we do have to spend a lot of time thinking about how to make sure that those chains work and not everything that we need can be done by work from home. And so we have to focus on those as well. Thank you, everybody. I think we're actually six minutes past time, but maybe because it's been talking about love, maybe because we're missing other people on the screen, but this seems like the time went by really quickly. I want to say before the conclusion of this event that obviously all conclusions are temporary. And I learned that from my mentor and my president. But I want to say this is a great time of uncertainty and stress on many dimensions. And I was actually wondering who is alive today that can have all the answers that we are looking for. And probably it's going to be very hard to think of one. But I think collectively we can develop strategies that can work for individuals, organizations, and nations. And I think we see so many case studies around us of not just individuals, but how nations are taking over and taking control of what's happening. I want to thank everybody, ASB is committed to being part of this process and being a positive contributor. Keep in mind this is the first time we are doing this ourselves. I was telling my team this morning I've never been so nervous being on screen in my life and I used to work in media but there's something about this webinar feature. Stay tuned for more information about the upcoming events and I'm going to leave the screen here. I would encourage everybody to take a shot of this code. Send us some if you want topics of interest that you might have stay in touch with us. I promise that by the end of this week you're going to hear at least three or four more seminars that we might put together in the next upcoming weeks if you have an interest in doing so. Professor Michael, so good to see you. I know we only talk once a week when we meet in person but I feel like in the past two weeks we talked a lot more. Mr. Lung, as always, you're fabulous. I'm so sorry that you cannot drive your fast cars on the on the circuit but you drive at the same speed of light even when you were from home to the entire team of ASB who put this together and especially many many many thanks to Dr. Tan who is the creator of this web series who's the brain of this process and the entire team that helped us figure out how to do things overnight how to log in how to send links how to stay connected thank you so much just so you know we have over 300 participants we had over 150 questions so thank you so much everyone sending you all much love stay healthy stay safe we'll see you soon. Bye bye.