 That installed the cabinet in the laundry room drilled through the pipes in behind it And so we went out in our side yard and water was gushing out of the side of the house So that was this massive Deconstruction tearing everything out redoing walls. It was a big mess about a week ago We looked and water was coming out of the wall in the same place Oh, we called the contractor back He tore a hole from the outside this time dug a big hole and it turned out Wasn't the pipes on the inside the hose was leaking and spraying against the wall So we have a big hole on the side of our house and out 500 bucks for making him race over and fix it When it was the hose spring, you know, that's the that's the worst thing like I mean Do you keep like so everything that got remodeled and reconstructed? Do you go by and just do like a very like hyper? Like hyper cute like just like oh, yeah, yeah, like is that leaking is that shaking is that creaking? Is that oh No, not like that. No, I'm like oh gosh, you know that little teeny piece of grout there That could be a little bit straighter line because you get really picking stuff that I mean our house looked like crap beforehand And now it looks amazing and yet you're still noticing. Oh, you know, I wouldn't have put that tile this way I put it up at this way. Well, I mean when we had our roof done I always keep an eye on it to make sure like especially because all the past rain It's like is it really like I don't know. I just I'm paranoid I want everything to to work as advertised. I say what is someone to come back around Spend a weekend slamming on my roof Unlike the rest of us you'd like it to just work What do the gray ones mean in the left a and B columns where those gray does it mean something? No, okay, I mean anything there are some there are some times in there that just kind of keeps Roger on the ball and You shouldn't worry about it too much But as you know, if you know if it turns red and we're really going off on something that we know to wrap our I love that So, um, so It's okay, I pulled it out so you guys have a discussion time. Yeah, talk freely scream Sure, I don't know why this one attention grabbing. Yeah, this is 11. I mean, I would prefer throat singing over screen, but Throat singing throat, it's very big in Mongolia. It's what don't say your vocal cord just you sing slightly like going like oh I mean, I'm not a throat singer, but if you heard it you would kind of recognize the sound Well, this is well, look we'll examine that later at the end of the show, but right now. We will mm-hmm. Yep So feel free to wait. Yes I'm recording as are you so I'll count myself in in three two Paul Davison has supported independent tech news directly for five years Be like Paul become a DTNS member at patreon.com slash DTNS This is the daily tech news for Wednesday, January 30th 2019 from studio feline. I'm Sarah Lane from pod feed central I'm Allison Sheridan and Manning the music is Roger Chang the show's producer Speaking about himself in the third person That's way to do It's true. It makes you sound important We've got a lot of stuff to talk about Kind of a crazy news day today So we're gonna do the best best we can blow off it. Let's start with a few tech things. You should know Security researcher Olivia Howe tipped off TechRound to that a server of customer data belonging to the data management startup Rubrik was online without password protection The server was hosted on Amazon elastic search and contained Tens of gigabytes of customers names contact information and casework dating back to October of 2018 and included customers like Deloitte shell Acknowledged bank the UK national health service and homeland security when alerted by TechCrunch Rubik took the server offline and stated that no customer owned data was actually exposed Again, yeah tough stuff Alphabet's jigsaw tech incubator announced that its distributed denial of service protection service Project skilled project shield probably will be available to European news organizations that are quote vital to free and fair elections Ahead of European parliamentary elections this May project shield allows sites to route traffic through a Google IP address Which uses a reverse proxy that identifies and filters malicious traffic Google also announced it is done in-person security training For over 1,000 campaign and election officials Journalists and people from election related NGOs or non-governmental organizations Google will also require anyone running European election ads to verify being either an EU based entity or Citizen as well as private provide disclosures for who is paying for the ad Google also make in an EU election Ads transparency report available in coming weeks as well as a searchable library It all sounds like it's the right move and at the same time very complicated Talking well speaking of complicated and Allison, I'm glad that you're with me for this today We talked a little bit about Apple's earnings in the show yesterday because they were breaking right as we were recording But now we have a little bit more information. So let's parse it shall we Apple recorded Q4 earnings per share of four Dollars and 18 cents on revenue of eighty four point three billion dollars Analyst had expected revenue of eighty three print ninety seven billion dollars on earnings of four dollars and seventeen cents per share so Slightly above estimates if you're looking at it that way iPhone revenue, which if you need a reminder Doesn't now break out unit sales anymore So it's all iPhones not certain models of iPhones came in at fifty one point nine eight billion dollars versus the analyst expectations of Fifty two point sixty seven billion that's going to upset some folks services pulled in a ten point nine billion dollars in revenue Increasing twenty nine percent on the year we talked a little bit about that yesterday Apple becoming more of a services company and how that's Advantages for them wearable home and accessory revenue was seven point three one billion dollars on the quarter going thirty three percent on the year Slightly below analyst expectations in that regard overall Apple saw quarterly revenue decline five percent on the year the first time It's seen a decline on the holiday quarter very important quarter. This is Apple's quarter since 2001 Apple pegged this decline Exclusively on slowdowns in China Apple loves to do that which saw an almost a five billion dollar decrease in revenue since last year Allison lots of numbers here, but we you know, we yeah, yeah, we're talking about there's a slowing market in China There there's the fact that you know the iPhones aren't the Necessarily the the the phone that they used to be because they have so many great competitors What are your thoughts on on these numbers and and what it means for Apple going forward? Well, I think that their strategy is probably well placed that they're working towards the services segment because there were some some other numbers in that same report is Their gross margin on services was sixty two point eight percent That is that is bananas, right? I mean, I think it's 30 on everything else so sixty two point eight percent is crazy and the services segment grew 19% year over year. So you're seeing these declines in Apple iPhone of revenue and and and profits and shipments But if you also look at the the China market like you guys reported just yesterday or maybe it was yeah, I think it was yesterday Could have been two days ago. Anyway that the market the market for Smartphones in China dropped. I think it was 14 percent overall and apples dropped 13 percent So they dropped a little bit. Yeah, I think it was a story from Monday, but but yeah, I mean lying the line So it certainly has to be a combination of all of these things. I mean the phones are overpriced They do make they still make an obscene margin on things like the phones But you know, the iPads are doing well and the services are just growing out of control So, you know, they're trying to not be a one-hit wonder, right? They got we've got other stories to talk about what they're doing and some interesting things coming out of that, right? We do we do and and before we move on I just want to ask you because I know you're an Apple enthusiast I would call myself the same What what what are your thoughts on on the this idea that Apple might get into some gaming? Subscription mode with the folks that might be lured from the playstations and the Xboxes You know, I don't know enough about the gaming market to really know whether that would have any chance of success I mean the great strength of Apple and gaming has been the mobile market, right? The the fun little, you know, do it while you're in line at a grocery store market Not the you know sit down and play some big epic game all puns intended. Yeah Yeah, I do always find it comedic to look at though because remember way back in the day I don't even know if you're old enough to remember this but people who use PC Oh max are just for games. That's not serious. I Mean I had a PC as a child growing up I'm not sure that we ever said that about Mac people, but somebody probably did somewhere All right, well moving on but still in the same vein Or did we did we do all three of these? Sorry the second financial earnings call there Item the just do line 18. Sorry about that. Yeah So preceding Apple's financial earnings call yesterday that revealed iPhone sales fell 15% compared to the same time last year CEO Tim Cook blamed a strong US dollar reduced subsidies from carriers for the iPhone and the battery replacement program However, Apple CFO Luca Maestri blamed most of the decline on China and other emerging markets in a subsequent exchange between Cook and analyst Milanovic The CEO mentioned pricing was a factor plus out of the most popular iPhone model was the XR the cheapest phone in the lineup Yeah, so Apple has continued this whole sort of like Listen the Chinese market is really screwing us right now. We're you know, we're doing the best we can they are being Quite forward-facing at least with the public about this line of thinking Roger I don't know It's it's at this point. I mean, we're you know, we're we're getting through earnings reports where things do seem Not dire for Apple, but certainly We're we're you know, we're we're in a bit of a trough. So, you know, how much does this resonate with you? So it's interesting because you know, again, you know, there are multitude of factors on why the iPhones hasn't really, you know shifted the needle this generation In terms of sales and a lot of factors were put forth Except for the one that a lot of people say well the phone's too freaking expensive Like no one's going to outlay 1k for a phone 600 was a stretch for a lot of people right six ends like fine, you know It does everything. I can put it for a thousand. I mean that that's kind of the the step too far and I think part of it was no You know, they're reluctant to mention that because They have this idealized pricing system where they would have each of their products occupy a niche or or market segmentation Now, if you know it's my apple doesn't really have a budget line in the same way that Samsung or Lenovo or Xiaomi has and so they've they've relied on this kind of middle upper middle and then like super bling expensive You know halo phone But at some point, you know, there can be only so many people are willing to outlay that kind of cash And you need to figure out Whether or not you want to keep targeting people that you know may Want to spend or may want to spend a thousand dollars on a phone but can't because it's financially unaffordable So I don't actually think it's the top phone being a thousand dollars That's really the problem because samsung's got a top phone. That's a thousand dollars Nobody's yelling at them for that But the difference is apple brought way up the bottom of line phone, right? You used to be able to get one for 350 I think it jumped up to 450 so now you can't buy an iphone that's got new innards and is pretty cool For a little bit of money you have to put in a lot of money just your starting point is that much higher And you know, it's it's it's interesting as you say that because it's not just their phones that they're doing that So if you look at their entire product line, you do kind of see an inch upward on the low end on pricing like For example, like my my macbooks from 2012 it needs to go, you know, badly, but When I go and price out, you know a comparable model unless I'm looking at the refurb units That they sell on the site. I mean it gets pretty pricey. I mean, it's what? Low thousands like like 12 1500 bucks before you just be able to get a grammar disc Yeah, and you you you're you're kind of in a position. Well if I need to do anything useful I'm looking at almost two thousand dollars Yeah in order to buy, you know, not even upper upper, you know top of the line Model but something, you know that you know that has a one terabyte ssd that my macbook has right now In 16 gigs of ram and you're like, you know, it's a lot of money Yeah Well, should we do another apple story the information soon? We are on a roll tell us what's next The information reports at apple is told content studio and networks involved with their forthcoming streaming service is To be ready for launch by mid april According to three sources and is expected to be publicly available within weeks of that date And for the record, no pricing or information on what the service will actually look like was part of the report Oh, geez. We still don't know what it's going to cost. But hey april's right around the corner anyway That's exciting. All the speculation will be over and then what will we talk about? You know, what's funny? I uh, we talk about we talk about so many tv services on the show And I was on cord killers the other night as a guest, uh, which is tom redd and and brian brashwood's Show about cutting the cord and all all all the things that you can do In that regard and you know, it kind of just This whole idea of apple is finally going to have this original content It's going to be an apple ecosystem thing And I'm I'm starting to feel like and maybe it's because I've been waiting so long I'm starting to feel like I don't know how much I care Since they haven't announced it yet We it just also it's it's it's been part of this news cycle for some time And if I was sitting around being like Wish had a great show to watch don't have any great shows to watch Maybe I'd feel a little bit differently, but it's like I can barely get through all the great shows that I watch now And I'm not even watching the good place. Exactly. Why are you not watching the good place? I have no time I literally have no time Uh, well, anyway, that that's exciting. I don't know april. Yeah. Yeah Find out finally at least we'll stop speculating Exactly or start speculating something completely different Speaking of reports an exclusive Reuters report has revealed that a hacking unit composed of contracted ex-american intelligence Operatives and united arab emirates intelligent services monitor the iphone's of activists diplomats and foreign leaders using a software tool known as karma Into introduced back in 2016 karma grants remote access to a target's iphone by uploading phone numbers Or email accounts into an automated targeting system It was used to obtain photos emails text messages location information And save passwords the tool became less useful at the end of 2017 when apple rolled out new security updates Why didn't we not hear about this back then if karma was around? You know, it's funny when I when I read the story. I thought the same thing. I was like karma I've heard of karma, right? Haven't I maybe I haven't Yeah, it was a little bit under my radar for sure. I'm really glad that uh, they stopped it Maybe we just weren't paying attention, but I don't know. I watched this kind of stuff. That's crazy Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, well, I mean again, we're talking about intelligence folks So perhaps they're able to go into the radar, you know in a way that keeps us guessing um, but uh, but yeah, I That's not a good thing. You know, it's it's one of those things that typically these tools are developed for government Agencies, right? They're not something that you're gonna go you go down to the the apple stores Look, I need karma install on my phone so I can stoop on my mom and dad because they don't know what they're doing on their phones And I need to know what's going on Um, oftentimes with tools like these, you know, they're kind of circulating that a very small circle of people or agencies that use them and You know, what's what's so fascinating about this is this is stuff that used to be exclusively the providence of large You know economies like the united states or china or rusher or or, you know, britney or france where they have extensive You know, uh intelligence capabilities Now you're seeing it move downstream to middle power countries that are using it in a more selective sense to monitor, you know dissidents monitor Activists and stuff like that and it's it's kind of a spread almost kind of a A I want to say democratization, but just kind of you have these tools slowly start spreading out to to wider and wider circles of of actors rather than just exclusive club that it used to be even like six years ago Well, I'm thinking we take a little turn away from apple for just a moment Uh, chrome is set to add a feature to warn users when they access sites with domain names that look like authentic websites The feature is reportedly called navigation suggestions for you look alike urls The process is said to be a drop down panel under the chrome address bar Asking the user if they really meant to visit that url. No word on when this feature will officially ship Well, okay, maybe we don't know when but I I welcome it and I like to think that for the most part I I cannot be foiled But it does happen. I think we're all you know guilty of that you know the the the idea of you know kind of this fishing scheme thing is is Is It it's when it's very clever. It's actually it's somewhat very useful They're really good, you know typos too, right So anyone who's running chrome right now and you can look at the version that you updated You can actually put put this url in and you can activate it within the browser even though it's not official But you know, it's mind-blowing to see like, you know, there's typo sites like they Zinni that the author gives one example So they spell PayPal, but they add an extra l at the end instead of you know, uh, pa l it's pa l l dot com Because that's what people might type and often, you know, people think oh, that's just silly people do that Just because it's it's uh, it's a cheap way that it clicks on the other site But I mean there's a lot of malicious use of these things and I think it's great that they they've actually Are implementing something that uh enables a user to kind of steer away from that especially people like my dad Yeah, they just type things in and maybe that's the keyboard Yeah, like one day you're in a hurry and you type those two l's like Okay, you're probably gonna understand that you're not at the official PayPal sites But think of how many people are just I don't know. They got a lot of other stuff going on and they don't quite understand that that has happened and um, yeah, it it if chrome is gonna make that more Transparent for everybody all the better the next round of whack-a-mole is well received Exactly. Hey to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes. It's a wonderful companion show to ours here at DTNS subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com All right, allison so We talked about this a little bit before the show But we'll we'll kind of set it up for everybody else who who needs to get on board here tech crunch reported on facebook's project atlas If you haven't heard of it, this is a program that sends 2016 paid users Between the ages of 13 and 35 So quite a spread there to install a facebook research vpn app The app was installed via beta testing services and gave facebook root access to decrypted network traffic Facebook really wanted to know what was going on there users were paid 20 dollars per month You might say well, that's nothing. I don't know if you're 13 You might think that that's a lot plus referral fees outside of analyzing network usage facebook also asked participants for system screenshots including amazon order histories Since publication facebook stated it would shut down the program on ios, but facebook research is still available on android and It's somewhat of an ongoing situation at this point allison. What are your first thoughts? I mean you're a parent I mean you You know the you know the social networking Is is contentious enough when it comes to the younger folk, but but facebook paying younger people to Be part of research experiments Does that set well with you everything about this just makes me want to scream So first of all they had a vpn app that was designed to do this and apple Took it out of the mac app store because it was wrong in all ways I don't know whether it violated times of terms of service, but whatever it was they took it out So facebook actually did an end run and they used the capability that companies who write Developing developer companies Can create a profile that allows them to install an app within the company to test an application So let's say they're testing a new version of facebook messenger They could use this profile to distribute it within the company to have everybody test it That is all it is allowed to be used for Facebook used that to do an end around and recreate that same vpn thing They were banned from using before to do it outside of i mean just Ian children There there is nothing I can usually find some way to you know play devil's advocate. Oh, well, you know, they knew what they were doing They said yes to this But this is all of their traffic everything they were saying they were doing 13 year olds are idiots 17 year olds are idiots. I mean, you know some of us where it is much later than that But some of us still might be it might be either here nor there all president company included but The the thing is you can't say that it's okay because a 13 year old said, oh, yeah, sure. I'll sell this for 20 bucks I mean they sell their kidney for 20 bucks. I mean they they don't know Ah Well, and yeah, okay. Okay. So and you're fired up and and and that's a good thing And and I think that that sentiment is shared by a lot of other folks But what would the solution have been? You know, how would you have rolled this out differently so that sure there might be data collection that that's for the general good of all of us But in a way that doesn't seem so creepy I don't know if there is a way to do it because Yeah, it's it's against the terms of service. It's it's Not allowable. It's creepy and it's disgusting. I mean it just everything about it is awful Now the good news is that um apple is is spanking them pretty well According to mac rumors They apple has stopped them from being able to use these internal profiles Which means they can't do any testing of any of their internal apps And another thing you can use these internal profiles for these certificates is you can create a An internal app that just works say with your Your crm system or you know food services or something like that Facebook can't use any of their own apps internally right now other than you know the production stuff They can't do anything. So they're getting they're getting a pretty big hand slap on this And i've been watching the news hoping to see that google does something too I mean, maybe it's not against google's terms of service, but it's certainly should be against the terms of wrong Well, okay, so the given the fact that uh facebook has suffered some pr challenges as of late certainly over the last year and um You know in in something like this I mean we care about it You want to yell we're fired up about it But how much do you think this would matter to somebody who already is worried that facebook might not be uh, you know A legit social network to to give all your information to Yeah, it There it seems like people are falling into different classes people who never used it people who dipped their toe in and went Oh, that's really creepy and got back out and then there's the vast majority of us where it's like Well, that's the only way I know what my family is doing, you know Uh, this one hit me harder than all of the other ones. I know so much of what they've done has been disgusting and and it's it's just such a clear sign that their culture has nothing to do with Caring about us at all. I mean I I know they're a company then companies jobs are to make money. I I'm the first one to say Oh, it's okay that apple has 68 percent revenue or you know gross margins on services but there's There's some level of wrong you have to draw the line at and You know that delete button is just hovering right next to my finger right now for this one This one just really really angered me Well, and I don't think you're alone and I suspect that we'll probably get some feedback about this and I hope that you do If you want to vent vent to us feedback at daily tech news show Dot com also. Thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit. You help us pick our stories You are an integral part of the show You can submit them and also vote on other people's stories at daily tech news show dot reddit.com We're also on facebook facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Alison sherry didn't thank you so much for being with us. Um, I know that you want to scream Uh, you didn't and I applaud your ability to ran it in But uh, let folks know where where they can keep up with all of your fabulous work Well, I do want to plug two things sort of folding one into the other The first is I want you to look at a page a web page that I created called podfee.com It's my at podfee.com. It's my subscribe to the podcast page And what I want you to be amazed by this is I hand coded this my little self Nothing was auto generated at all if you shrink and and uh increase the size of the page If you look at it on a on a phone versus in landscape mode on a phone You will see the text changes things move around. It's fluid. It's all mobile first and it's amazing The reason I I know I'm just like pat my I'm just grinning from man. I know that feeling I know that feeling we're like it worked It looks really nice. The reason I'm I know how to do this is because of a podcast that I've been doing for 70 episodes with Bart Bouchard's it's called programming by stealth and he has been slowly sneaking up on us teaching us To program and we've done html and css and and javascript and now we're doing bootstrap And bootstrap classes are what allowed me to do this and it's such a cool course because I feel so powerful now Like look what I I did that with my own bare hands. It's like I I carved it out of of stone is what I feel like So it's a big plug for programming by stealth. Bart Bouchard's does all of the work He writes amazing tutorial show notes, and I'm the stooge going. Wait, what do you mean? I don't understand and then I got all excited when I get it to work Um, that's amazing, uh sounds like a podcast that will help a lot of folks Yep, look forward in your pod catcher of choice under programming by stealth We'll do and thanks so much for being with us on our show Also, thanks to our patrons our goal each month. You know what the goal is, but I'm gonna tell you again anyway One more patron than last month just one if there's two or 10 or a million that would be great But at least one more you could be the person that puts us over the top and makes our hearts sing Become a detain us member and get an ad free rss feed special episodes from tom On how we do the show. What's going on behind the scenes? How it all works You know special episodes looking back on tech news of the past and more sign up at patreon.com D t n s also. We have a store Uh daily tech news show dot com Slash store get a hat Get a get a hoodie get a mug All sorts of stuff I need a new one Get on in the store allison be cool Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com. We are live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m 21 30 utc We can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live tomorrow. We'll be back with justin rubber young talk to them This show is part of the frog pants network frog pants network get more shows like this at frog pants dot com Time and club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Sorry about that in the middle there. I just all said I read and I was like, oh my god. I already talked about all the articles Oh, no, it's fine. That's where I went. Uh, did I forget we said that I didn't remember reading it Oh, no worries. No idea. I I see I see where that kind of yeah, would have tripped a person up Sorry about that I was uh, I was trying to I was supposed to write them into one broad like It's eight minute section of just all those bits I felt like I had we had already talked about it. And that's what I got paralyzed. I mean Well, I know in a world with only apple and facebook news Well, I mean you touched it, but you actually Didn't until you got to it, which is the price. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're interrelated Yes, thanks for like let me plug that you can tell I'm pretty excited about my uh I'm excited for it. No, that's great. That's really cool The last programming class I took was Fortran four with watt five in 1980 so Those are the sorts of things too where you're like, okay I know that lots of people know how to do this but when you do it for the first time you're like Got it. Okay. Like yeah, like I I made fire I could make lots of websites for people should they need it like, you know, it's that's a that's a really cool skill It's a single web page And it took me like three weeks one web page. Yeah one web page. It's funny. I um, I There's a potential uh podcast that I may produce for a team and and They're they're very they're very fond of dts and and lots of other stuff where I'm like, okay Well, you just you know need to know How the sausage gets made like it seems really easy But there's a lot going on behind the seams like just so you know Do you want to hire me to make that for you? There's a lot of plates to be spinning. Yeah Yeah, it it's it's not just sort of like, oh you sit down and press a button and like do you show it? It just isn't um, and we all know that but But it's it's funny Explaining production to people who don't work in production And I'm kind of mostly talking about video, but audio certainly Audio in the same vein. It's it's you know, people sort of go like like, okay For example and again, not naming names, but we were talking about he was like, uh, well, you know We'll just we'll just like gang shoot a bunch of stuff and it'll be great. It'll be like really chill and organic Yeah, like that if you want to shoot a bunch of stuff It's never going to be chill because you want to get through it Right, but I but I was like, okay, even even if it's really chill. It's like Have you thought about music like Right the the music that you like in that other podcast that I sent you as an example is Someone made that Like where do you think that comes from? Like you don't just like have it Yeah, like really, you know sort of nice, um I don't know. It it's uh, it's you do crappy It's really sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I'm like anything like their quality, you know levels and you can kind of put some together That's a little slapstick that works But isn't super polished and then you have sort of the you know the radio labs of the world We're like, oh, yeah, that's you know, like they've obviously put a lot of work into post-production but It's funny to talk to somebody who's like I don't understand what you mean by the xml file And I'm like, well, it's very important It turns out it's And it has to live somewhere on your website And I'm gonna have to talk to your IT manager about this because it needs to happen Very well. Did I ever point this out sarah? Look above my head here That is an actual sausage grinder that one of my uh fans sent me For because I said I kept referring to watching the sausage get made Wait An actual fucking grinder up there That's the one hanging down below. Oh, and then when I moved into this office I didn't have that shelf up there. So I only had this little this little Right So if you see up on top, he then sent me a vegetable grinder a little tiny plastic one So that I had that one. I think you did point this out. Um, but your your Studio looks real nice. Absolutely. Yeah I'm really liking the new room and I got some new lights Yeah, I got some new led lights up here that really that might be what it is I feel like it's yeah like the lighting is really good and yeah Yeah, that's the uh Have you noticed how big your hands are when you do this though? I noticed in tom's new studio when he reached he talks like this with his hand and it's like wow, that's a big hand Yeah Hmm a huge hand compared to my head. Oh no perspective You know what gives us a good perspective on things a title Oh Yes, yes. So I like mo jams facebook to apple hold my beer I didn't understand that one. Uh, it's because of the whole apple The um, you know with FaceTime yesterday. I don't I don't I don't understand what hold my beer means either And I'm glad you said this all of a sudden like I don't understand that not just right now, but ever No, that means like I don't know what that joke is So it's like a dude thing like you're in a bar or something you're having a couple of brews and Like someone does something like oh he totally did like an awesome molly or he totally, you know That doesn't fit in this context. You would say to someone hold my beer. I'm going to try to attempt the same thing Right, it's like hold my purse. Yes See if somebody would just send that to me a year ago. I would have been why would facebook have said that to Because apple I was so confused by that. I was like Yesterday apple got got roasted for having the oh FaceTime He's not even though the other person hasn't accepted your call. It's a meta level from yesterday to today Yes, I like should be against the terms of rung. I know that was my quote, but I like it Hey, that's good. That's good. Hey man 13 year olds are idiots Let's not let's not it's by me upset the 13 year old community. Oh, that's up the apple upset the apple cart Apples gross margins or bananas Another amazing quote. Don't hate that one To me gets the terms of wrong It fits I It's one of those things that You know, it's I'm wondering if if this basically feels like facebook is going through their corporate midlife crisis They're just like they don't know what they're doing. I wanted to see their their death nail They're reaching a grabbin for stuff. They're gonna eventually gonna end up with a red sports car convertible Yeah, you pay. Yeah, they're just gonna They're gonna have a what would look a new era of life It's for companies. It's usually when they do something that has nothing to do with their core business and they just kind of get into it Like facebook snacks You know like dietary supplements That actually might sell all Think about it. Look at the soylent You know, this is so many times in a row though, you know, well, you know, it's it's Yeah, but but but alson, you know, we talked about it on the show. It's like I mean What member of your non-technical family cares about any of the stuff? Zero of mine They don't care. They're not reading the stories and if they did they'd be like, don't make any sense to me Don't care. I just want to share my photos with you. Yeah but they're They're most in instagram now with a okay. I'll push the button to also post to facebook because whatever That seems to be more but then again, of course, that's a facebook property. Yeah, sure. Yeah I mean, I see what you're saying but at the same time there there is a There's a continuation of serialized Just bad behavior that simple people would say you might you might need to do management Yeah, I honestly think those people were in europe that agreed to do that if gdpr would be interesting there I mean, i'm trying to picture whether they're their Agreement that the kids signed up for said things like Okay, so if you go to your doctor's website and you do research on the disease that you have We will be recording that and probably selling it. Okay Did it say that? 20 dollars per month What do you got to lose? Okay 20. Yeah, there you go Because i'm an idiot I'm 17 I mean when I was 13, I did not think I was an idiot But I was and that's the problem but I was certainly I I was I didn't have the skills to totally know why Companies want to do things like this, right? I I I was um I Yeah, you know, I wasn't stupid But I just I didn't really understand how this stuff worked and I think that that that is The problem that ellison, I know Really bothers you and I think that's what you're trying to get out is It's not that little kids are dumb. It's that Companies are manipulative Well, they're manipulative, but they're manipulating a segment of the population that typically by law is not considered An adult for legal reasons, right? You a 13 year old Right Yeah, you got another five years till you can vote man Chill out. I think it's 17. You don't have any idea of the repercussions to your future of what you're doing I mean, that's why you see, you know 16 year olds posting pictures of themselves drinking beer And they don't understand why they don't get a job when they're 21 because somebody's looking at these 16 I see people 25 not have a clue to right right consequences of their actions Sure, sure, but but I think My theory is that we get better at that over time understanding the repercussions to the future and it's barely started at 13 It's not matured at all at 17 so You know, it depends, you know, like, you know, I You know, when I was a when I was a junior high my sister and I were We're left to live by herself for like eight months Bepaid bills we ate I cooked We're We're we're we're at mom and dad go Oh, my dad was running a restaurant in a different city. He would come on the weekend He would visit he would visit us on the weekends, but like You weren't abandoned. They were just like you're gonna be we're not abandoned, but I you know, we managed everything You know, the you know the maturity is not always tied to a chronological age I agree But you know with but again, you know with the whole 13 thing I think they are intentionally targeting an audience they know will not have The experience or or the the wherewithal to understand exactly what they're signing up for Right, and that's why we have that's what we used to have laws against advertising to children for certain things sure it's uh I don't know. I think I think facebook is is It appeared where they really need to understand that they need to clean like Clean the executive board And like start fresh because the the people that get you in this mess aren't the people they're going to get you out of it So I heard on some show they were talking about Uh, the expectation that they're going to get rid of uh, Cheryl sandberg I think she's the root of all legal. No, I see this is the thing I think I don't think she's the root of all legal She's becoming a figurehead for things that are going wrong with the company. That's my opinion But yeah, I mean, I don't think she I don't think you you got rid of her the problems magically go away I just think she is part of a group of people that need to go Yeah Including including the founder. I mean, I don't think he needs I don't I don't honest This is the thing I've I've I've learned by just you know talking to a bunch of execs, but also entrepreneurs is like there's a point where an entrepreneur becomes An impediment to a business rather than an asset, right because an entrepreneur is very good at doing one thing growing a business But you need someone who needs to be able to steer the ship Without inclining with other ships or the rocks, you know as it moves through a business I mean, it's like any other life cycle You know, you have a person that can manage the beginning stage, but you also need somebody who can manage the middle stage so to speak I think that's a good point and I think a lot of founders who yeah are smart capable The build, you know, something revolutionary facebook Absolutely in that camp It's a very different product than whatever mark zuckerberg set out to do back in the day He couldn't even have possibly known what it would become And imagine how many things might be handled differently by another person I'm not saying handle better Because I think that Yeah, like imagine imagine taking over facebook I ain't like I don't know how to do that I mean, it's not a did quite a job on microsoft, right? It can be done Sure, but facebook is a social network. I mean, it's it's it's that's a different that's a different situation Well, you know Windows machines is an interesting comparator because When it came out of the scene software as it was known wasn't this huge conglomerate business that it is today It was a bunch of guys who made software or it was the guy who sold you your computer, right IBM Cranked on software they licensed stuff like lotus one two three And sold it to a bunch of businesses But it wasn't like this huge billion dollar business that people associated with it today And it was started out by a bunch of snot nose kids who dropped out of college and stuff But I think there's a generational difference between like bill gates And and and a mark zuckerberg and I think at some point, you know, there might there will be they will need to go through this huge kind of existential You know, like look in the mirror to the side like where they want to be and what they want to do Yeah, and at that point you could then mature enough you'll be mature enough to say hey, we do need a such Uh a such a talent to to to get us You know in a new space rather than trying to fight the old battles and try to accomplish the stuff that we've been Think we've been accomplishing I don't know I know it's like once you get started on these topics you're like well, I Yeah, the solution is very very complex How's Otis? Otis is good. He's um, is he there? Oh, yeah, he's right next to me. He's newsin. He's newsin How's it going butter boo? Yeah, he um, he has I'll show you actually He has I mean this dog Loves his crate more than he loves life itself. Oh, wow. It's so weird It's a security crate It is it is that's exactly right. It's his it's his security blanket Um, so it works out really well when we do the show. He's so happy. He just wants to be hanging out with the group And how much does he weigh? Uh 85 pounds. Holy cow. He's a big boy. He's a big boy However And anybody who follows Otis's instagram account Otis ready lane would know this but He is so I mean, he's a big boy We you know, we do our little walks around, you know, the neighborhood or whatever, but like he has to run He needs to like run free. He loves playing fetch It's his favorite thing in the whole world and you can't really do that When you have a big dog because he scares people, you know, even though he's not Scary, but like, you know, he can't do that. So there's a dog park that we go to. Um, a lot of other big dogs and um, oh, this is sort of like Dogs, whatever. I just want to play fetch. However the newfoundland dog is Probably the biggest dog I've ever seen in my entire life I don't know if you've ever seen one of these guys in person. I mean, it's it's a st. Bernard plus When I was five years old my dad Stopped the car on the way to back from church because this guy was building a boat in his front yard And he wanted to see this boat And so I'm walked along hand in hand with my dad and a newfoundland charged us And the newfoundland guy, I mean, he was like, I don't know a foot taller than I was At the head and my father just picked me up by by the scruff on my neck and lifted me up as the dog ran by Always remember that dogs. Nothing else we need to stop is the live stream to youtube and say goodbye to everyone and then Has to join us tomorrow. Uh, but for everyone else who's listening on the audio stream patreon supporters, uh, stay tuned