 Welcome everybody back here at the Martini Siegel Theater Center at the Graduate Center CUNY in New York City in New York, which has been hit most New York State. I think we have more coronavirus victims that people in states around the world over 10,000. And now the streets are empty shops are closed theaters are dark. It's an hour lifetime at least for our generation, incredible, unprecedented, a moment. Reality is truly is stranger than fiction and a small invisible viruses attacking us humans who are multi-cell organisms, you know, of trillions and but they go inside and rage a battle and the moment it looks like we are losing a lot of them. We at the Siegel Center Bridge academia and professionals theater and especially international global theater and American theater for decades and we have been in contact with artists around the world and we listen to their voices. That's what we do. And we feel it's important to hear from others in our society they have a special significant place right now in this crisis we hear from virologists and economic advisors politicians they had some television between commercials often. We need to hear the voices from artists artists are looking for truth as do the scientists which is the first rule to be truthful and look for the truth even if it puts your life in danger. And artists have been on the right side of justice progressive justice and on the right side of history if you really look closely, almost all of the time. I think now is the time again like the opening of the building wall 911 and of World War two something is changing something my early has changed we might not have even seen it. Everything that's perhaps good is now coming out but what's bad and horrible is even worse and more even more frightening the future is uncertain. There are these monks that you don't be afraid of uncertainty, we have to find the way to live with this our Indian puppet player yesterday on who I said you know where she will switch and say let's see. Maybe we do place this uncertainty and no longer the happy endings and everything will make sense because as Thomas Austin Maya also said here, this virus does not make any sense. It's chaotic. Let's not read any false spiritual meetings in it. It's something we have to go through but it's time to prepare. It's time to prepare for young artists will be over everything passes and but it's time to think. And this these talks the seagull talks which we now had this over three weeks is a place where we do think and where we also really want to share our experience. And today we have truly significant theater and the global scale with us a theater that has been pioneering work, a theater that has over decades now shown that it sustains a level of artistic quality. Intellectual engagement and also an aesthetic results that comes out of a production method that is successful it comes out of the great country of Poland a great theater nation, some say a superpower. Maybe you look back also the country or talks ski was language and the great directors we just had Lupa also who is connected to this data with with us at the seagull. And it is the great at TR Varsova, a theater that was after the opening of the wall and all of it reinvented in a way by Gregorz Giorgina who is here with us Gregorz thank you for coming and he's here. This team is this Agata Kovac, you know who works for the Tia Varsova also for the international relations a global thinking that Tia Varsova does so well. I think to act locally to think locally produce locally but think globally and do be in contact with countries around the world theater artists and also with the seagull center. And with us also is a Roman Pavlowski who is the geometry, a great thinker of theater. Also someone who has worked at the curator has an overview of the scene in Poland, and something very unique is happening with this theater despite the events that we hear from Poland that we also don't know enough about it we are big on the outside. How what the situation is they are building a very new space they are building a theater in a significant neighborhood in Varso, and it's a theater for the 21st century that is engaging, hopefully and they will as I understand in a very new way. So, in taking into account the digital all the stuff we now think about what do we do now with how do we connect how our audience members not just admirers at a Gregorz said but really partners and they are working on solutions for this but they have not taken into account the coronavirus perhaps also not everything that's politically happening in Europe, but right now they are all in their homes they said the openness and mobility is the most significant parameters for their work but now we cannot be open we don't meet people we are not mobile and they are in their apartment so welcome everybody and Gregor starting with you how do you feel where are you now and what time is it in Poland. It's six past six p.m. so early evening. Thank you for invitation. Welcome everybody who was listening to us. It's an honor to have this public and to talk with you Frank. I'm very very sorry and about situation in New York, many of my friends sending very dramatic information and it's really very sorry for all the society from New York or all America. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. What about us as you mentioned we have many plans and we thinking about the future in the same time thinking about the local society and local problems. As you know probably the situation political situation and social situation Poland it's not very good. So we see in our kind of the mission of TR we see as well and our role in speaking about nowadays especially about the values that's for us is the most important the values in the time where we slow down because everybody feel that we rush so much and you don't have time to really think what is about our life and what is the goal of our life. So now for us is the time to thinking about the values that that is our main things and we focus on that. And that's what we doing now as a team as a company, then our main thing is contact with the people truth, of course now through the zoom or other communication but making many new relation and having more time to speak more time to listen other people and more more time to to recognize what are the problem and and think it over how we can what we can deliver as a as a company that's that's we feel our very special mission now what we can deliver what we can give the people now in this very very difficult times. What are your values. Pardon. What you said you're thinking about the values what are the values yeah yeah yeah yeah that the process to very important is the the in our situation for me and for us is very important to the truth that's that's and honest that is something which is not only it's not only concerning the politician and the people which have really big influence on our life and our condition nowadays. But that that is the most important that we can be honest with each other and can say truthful and not manipulating the information not making the new statement which doesn't exist that's the truth is this this value for for us which is from my side at least the most important now and of course the empathy that is another value which is very important empathy so we can imagine what is the point of you or what is the situation of other people what is the situation of others and this is more specific doesn't concern of course other your country but in our our country is very important to understand those others those people which are nowadays are not Polish they're not kind of the nation what they propose those people which helping building our society building not only economy but building our our lives now those people are on on the other other side those people we don't care about them we forgot about them and at the beginning I thought this this this pandemic it's very democratic but nowadays of course it's not democratic many people have to work many people have to face this problem and those people don't don't have the help from us don't they need relations now and they're working that we can sitting in our homes and working from our homes and but there's many people especially in Poland which are nobody taking care about them because simply they're not Polish that that's that is very shame even to saying about it but this barrier that those people that we divide the people on the special groups and saying those group don't have any privilege and that that is something which now in Poland especially in Poland hungry of course yes but especially in Poland after this time of solidarity and this achievement of solidarity now those values are very very forgotten in our policy. Yeah, I got to how is the situation in Poland on the street how does the government handle everything. What do you detect do do people go out I guess all theaters are so close but how is the situation and the mood. Hello everyone and like I say as well from my side like very very sorry for this how does it look like in US we are like really with you. We are not in such a bad situation or officially we are not because we are not sure if all the numbers about the number of the victims are true or false. But we are like following your stories and it's important to us to say as well that you're sorry. In Poland of course like we are in the lockdown and I really think that our lockdown is a little bit ambiguous when it comes about the real strict rules. So we know that we are obliged to stay at home and that there is really few like for for exceptions because of which we can go out. We don't have any documents like in France to prove it we are not sending the text messages to the government like in Greece but but we need to tell it if we are asked by the police what was the reason because of which we are on the street. We hope that it will be a little bit lighter starting from next week because this is what we have learned yesterday that parks and forests and let's say recreation walks will be somehow allowed so that will be a change. But of course fietas are closed cinemas are closed and from the plan that has been presented yesterday by the government fietas, cinemas, gyms and the like fitness clubs and massage studios will be opened as the last one. So this is something which put us in this like real estate of the anxiety. There was like as well the discussion about why the churches are being opened or like allowing people to go there, like one person for 15 meters quarter meters to go there at once. And in the fietas and other venues which are easier to really manage how the audience is being welcomed and gathered it's not possible yet so this is how we live it. People are not on the street like people are not living from their houses if they really don't need to. They are like if they are on the streets they're queuing in the line to the supermarkets and here like when Gregor said that there are so many excluded people. This is really really visible that those who are on streets are those who are going to do this shopping or the homeless people who now are absolutely lonely. Yeah, it's a disaster everywhere in the world for homeless people, also sex workers people who don't have a means that we just had yesterday a heartbreaking call from Indiana Rupa Roy the puppet player director said 600,000 people left tried to leave New Delhi yesterday last week on a foot march like a biblical with children's on their backs and their belongings and then they had to return the state orders closed to their villages of artists with 1000 families and they don't have touring companies who don't even have a home they are organizing food banks and it's chaotic some of the screens are closed some are opened also in Pakistan. And we heard from Lebanon where you know the makings theater already so complicated and it's impossible to now do anything and the state is clamping down on on the citizens so it is just devastating black playwrights who are with us from the black fest said you know family their families. Who do work and also in the service industries, not only get blamed because they say all the community doesn't pay attention and they might infect us he also says the all families are making wheels and right now in New York and Brooklyn and Queens everywhere. Because for over centuries they have been the disenfranchised, and we have to protect ourselves they say we don't have health insurance we don't have jobs. We also work with the ones in the hospitals the security guards. Tony Morrison who once said the people who had to take the early bus the other ones who also died in 911 so this is a great tragedy. Roman as a theater thinker, as someone who's dedicated his life to theater. Do you do you feel do you think this is changing fundamentally the internal hard drive is it reconfigured or do you say it's a confirmation of what we always thought and now we are even more sure. Well, thank you Frank for this question and the possibility to share our experiences and thoughts. I think that this is really crucial for us to be together to support our relations and to build a kind of virtual theater community. Thank you for this. Yes. Crisis as always is a chance to change to make a change. And we are at the other side, we do our best to, to use this opportunity and to build a better future for our organization and artists which are associated with us. I'm not talking about only about our day by day activity, but I'm talking about our perspectives about our future plans because now it's time. I'm completely right, this is the time to be in a kind of solidarity with the others but also this is what we need to create to think and to, as Thomas Hostermeyer mentioned to, to shape our future. And we are, we are, we are a public theater so we've got really a mission which is not narrow only to entertainment. We have our audiences, we need to be with our creators, and we need to create new possibilities for performing arts. And so, so now our activity is based and focused on internet projects, we are transmitting broadcasting recordings of some of our performances, but also we are developing some new projects which are especially dedicated to digital environment. I strongly believe that we will stay a part of our activity will stay virtual that the platforms and tools that we've been developing now can be used in the future when we hopefully come back to our building and to our stages. So now it's time to think more above, behind the, behind the horizon. This is, this is what we are doing now. Thank you. And Grégor, when is the last time you were out of your apartment and working in the theater? How long is it locked down now going on for you personally? It's, I start very early because of my family. Your family is, tell us a bit about your family. Yeah, four of us. And my stepson is very needed, very special care. So he's in the very high group of risk. So we locked down the very, very beginning like four or five weeks ago. I don't remember exactly now. We don't go outside. My wife, Anya is very well organized. So we, she organized everything perfectly before. So he's really sitting at home. I was outside, it was four days of three days ago. And because of manifestation of, yes, about the law, which is now our parliament, the law very, very strict barbarian law against the pregnancy and abortion, and about this law that allowed the children to going to shoot the animals. So now I even, it's difficult to talk about it. It's like really horrible what's going on. It's kind of aberration. It's kind of really uncontrollable. And of course, and purpose the, for sure on purpose, the movement of the government, which have thinking about their only particular goals. They don't think about the society society. We went out and we with the car because of course it's forbidden now in Poland to be together and make the manifestation. So we just going around in the center of Warsaw with other people and making manifestation and saying that we don't want, we putting our voice to that the people in parliament can and make the manifestation can hear us. So we had a car with cars demonstration of torso going through Warsaw and and and having the horns on I guess and how many people. And the only two people because he now is the law in Poland that we only be two, we can't have three people together so only two people can be in the car and horns and of course some texters and we have the money keen and and yeah all the symbols we have a big car. So we've been very, very visible. How many cars participated. We didn't count but it was like around 1000 cars and of course the bicyclist, many bicyclist. And, and yeah that was we call it the woman strike it's kind of the traditions in a couple years since the new government is the new woman strike action. It was a lot beautiful, a lot of beautiful people which are being very feel the solidarity between us and that was good time. It was good time that we can see somebody that somebody's thinking differently that what we are receiving from the public TV and the public social media. That was last time. So, of course, of course I am I'm the freak about the plants. So I going outside home and working working in the yet it's not garden in the on the street and putting the new plants on the street so it gives me as well a lot of pleasure as well and communication of the neighbors so I became on my street the the new the garden so everybody's calling me today and what to buy and many people going outside and planting the plants that that is one of the good things about this stuff that really people start to think about environment. Yeah. So it's great gosh the gardener. Yes. So how does a day look like can you talk us through a day what time do you get up and what do you do what it was. Oh, it's like lifestyle magazine. Okay. I do for you Frank I never do it wake up at 930 having a very short breakfast and then I watching what is about what's going on in the emails and what the situation and then I started rehearsal at 11 o'clock. I think we decided to run online rehearsal which we're doing now the tempest by Shakespeare we stop it in the middle of the process. So we said we would like to meet through the zoom and continue the rehearsals. And that that is that is two things one one things that we don't we have many not many but we have the discussion with our team and the situation is quite difficult in our public theater we we all are paid by the actors are paid by the promises they have some sellers from coming monthly but I'm not so high and that's and they don't they and there's one aspect and the second aspect as they can't do nothing now so it's very important for them that we can work we can meet and meet at the beginning of the rehearsal we talking what is going going with us so the contact the sharing the relation. It's very important to to learn each other more we know very well, but we, but this kind of contact makes as much. We just explore the different different parts different aspects of ourselves so and of course it's much more deeper be honest. So that is important and and we trying later we trying to put it on on our work and how it could influence our work in the future. Yesterday we have very important talk that we don't really want to do the online situation online performances, we just would like to work. And of course we thinking about it probably will be not possible to give the opening as we planned, but to give some online transmission when you can gather in the theater in the future. But we waiting for this true contact with the audience, we can do, we can show our work, but we waiting for the real contact at the theater, it could be in two years time or one year time. But that that is important for us that we believe in this personal emotional energy theater and we would like to feel the audience and we want that audience will feel us. So that I am very satisfied that beat me up that beat me up that team is thinking like that that we have a long distance goal. It's not part of it's not now it's not the communication it's not the likes it's not nothing about that we would like to stay behind our values now values about the theater, and we need really we need to contact with the people and we will prepare for that. How long do you rehearse online. We will have so we say now we say only two hours because we would like to not to, we have we would like to have a concentration and later of course after two hours with actors we meeting with the other artists which compose this theater. Later at the meetings with the people which are thinking how to produce this theater in the new situation. So this meetings about this project is like four hours online a day at least. And of course later that many meetings online concerning the theater is the similar situation that now we for instance now I've just finished the meeting which always now is like every week almost with the whole team. So that is another good situation that is like 20 people joining the meeting, and we can see everybody and we can learn about ourselves more. So that's a kind of, you know, I'm looking for the positive things it's incredible so you work it's it's not bad. So you work really hard I mean that sounds like if you have. Yeah, we all work hard. Roman Agata we finish really I'm finished I finished Frank beyond a six, seven. But those two people Agata and Roman they working to 10 o'clock and online you know the video yesterday we have. Yeah, it's the end of the week you must have a long hard week behind you so really really thank you I got to tell us a little bit. Yeah. That's true. It's more work now than before. It's more because we need to reshape it somehow and answer this need of how could we now frame this what is our potential as the archive that we have with this what we may do live and how to animate the actors of course the company and ensemble within our team, but our audiences, we really have learned through this few weeks that we are in the lockdown already that people needs the Fieta and in Poland I think it's really significant that the first live transmission like the broadcasts from our archive from the pieces of a woman with it was like 8,000 people watching it at you know at once. So, so 8,000 so that was the same number of people that twice of the audiences that we would gather in Avignon when we were invited with this piece. So, like we really feel this mission that having the feedback from the audiences from whole Poland and not only because we try to do it always with English subtitles. So, we hear a lot of the people who are not from Warsaw not from our, let's say first circle, and who are like really writing to us on Facebook or like via other communicators that, hey, we wouldn't come that easily because it's over 100 kilometers or something. Now we really love to be with you and this time that we spend with you in the Fieta is the time of our going out from the isolation from our daily routine. It's really this special evening that they're organizing. Maybe it is because we have decided to do those broadcasts always at the same time same day so like Saturday evening which means okay this is the Fieta opportunity. It's not easily used to this rhythm, but it works and this what we decided to do as well is always to joining the presentations together with the meetings of with the team of the performance that has been presented. So we get that the live contact in all those like private contexts like here you see us in our homes with actors with directors with dramaturgies of the performance that are presented, and people are really welcome to ask questions and they do. It's really amazing as well to see how much they are more open and those interactions when it can be written, not being like you know raised hand in the after took after the performance. Something is, something is changing and we are detecting it. And how is the situation I think Grigorz mentioned it for the artists who are actors they don't have the contract do they have health insurance is the Polish government the state, which we all think up to I don't know how it really is but how is the situation for for theater artists in the free theater experimental scene how is that. Where there's very little, little programs and support for the freelancers. You can get a very small if if they had contracts, a temporary contracts or contracts for one performance. They could get from the government a small amount of money only once I've had that the recent decision was to to enlarge it to three months but it's, it's like, I don't know, $300 a month. So it's really nothing. The Ministry of Culture announced some new programs new grant programs for supporting new ideas. Also, the city of Warsaw is planning to open a call for new projects, but some many freelancers they have problems with the number of production productivity over product productivity. If you know what I mean. They, they are waiting for support they are not waiting for engagements for new possibilities to work because they works were cancelled or rescheduled. So the number of new projects is not a solution. Another problem is as well that it's not always the genre that then that they like that they are theater artists so being now asked to do something like for the broadcast live stream or online project is not always something that talks to their aesthetics and they like the the feeling of the theater that they were producing. Well, I just want to say that. Well, Poland is one of the weather one of these countries where there is no system social system for for freelance artists. So there's no health insurance for them. There's no health official there is no health insurance for them so they need to, to have a fictional payroll or engagement or sometimes the small amount of the fee is dedicated to health insurance but it's only temporary. It's, it's, it's really a disaster when when you've got a pandemic and you don't have insurance. And it's, I mean, comparing of course the United States States has got another system. But everything that's, yeah, but but but but in Europe you know comparing to Germany or to France, really Polish performative artists and basically all the freelance artists visual composers musicians they are really on the desert now. So they need some help and and institutions like our theater, try to help them to engage them to give them opportunity to make small projects but it's also producing producing producing. We are we are not, I mean, we are not. We cannot be in a charity institution. So, so it's of course against law and there's so many limitations. Yeah, but but we tried to re reshape some of our. Some of our productions which were scheduled for this year. So we are trying to reshape them to build a kind of digital prologue or digital module elements, which can work as a promotional material but also it can work as our kind of support for for our associated artists and recently we've doing an interesting project which is called Reap Kora, Rest in Peace Kora. It is an inspired by a Greek ancient myth of Persephone and a group of actors, the team of actors is creating profiles on Facebook and Instagram, the profiles of characters actually are ancient gods, but in a modern version. And they built like groups of followers. And this week they started the first interactions and live streamings. So this this project will last for another three four weeks, we hope. And the material we will collect during this internet activity will be used also on stage. So it's also kind of preparation during the time that the rehearsals are not possible. Incredible that the Greek gods and the theater gods are moving into Instagram and Facebook and we say that's a good thing because now what we think was not real is becoming real, or perhaps one of the few real things we are now talking. And everything as you said you know about Polish society but also in America or everywhere everything that's not working is so utterly exposed when we hear from India or Egypt of Hong Kong and others. Something has to change where everybody says this is has been going on for too long things that are not working and we have to be part of the change, but we also do art and theater so great. There's another line. Do you detect a change to Shiki Okada the great Japanese director and writer you know he said what was odd. He rehearses also online because he wants to keep his company going. All of a sudden the actor is on the screen, and there's the same space and same time he felt he doesn't really know is that more democratic or not. So there is a change in work. Do you detect something early on that there is a difference in these kind of new digital world we live in. We often say you know that Bryce said he wants theater for the children of the technological age but now we have to make maybe theater for the digital age or they already there maybe you guys are and so do you detect something in your work that is different when you now rehearse and perhaps I know it's very early on but is there something. Yes, yes, Frank I just would like to. Information that of course as a theater. But I can be honest it's little little help from very little amount of people which are artists in Poland. And a lot of my colleagues and a lot of friends which I really have very very difficult situation very they don't have help they don't have any money and they don't know what to do and slowly they going into kind of the depression because they know they don't know when it is coming and they can't produce more art they can paint more they can compose more because they don't believe that they can show up later. So that is that this disease show how our system is really really not democratic and how particular interest in our politics. And of course when you're asking me about rehearsal of course I am in the very good situation, because I have this privilege that I am paying monthly from public theater and, and then good situation and we can work. Of course, we can work and that's this this kind of work of course is different. And after this couple weeks that the focus is in different way in our work now. It's more we thinking about the messages, which are not particular sending in contemporary in that moment, not in this moment. We're thinking and we change it with the script as well for the messages, which you can work in five years or good work in the future. And now this as well. So we're working for the more, let's say, not temporary values. It's, let's say, less political but in same way is much more political. We're trying and thinking to building much more the stronger basement for our voice. So that that is the differences of course we're working on the screen, we don't, but we talk and we think a lot. The reading will listen each other. And that that is as that is very interesting as well. Another kind of work which for certainly have the some other normal face to face rehearsal. That's, as I said before, we are much more recognized and we watch more digging in our under consciousness and we digging much more in our thoughts. And of course, all the time we're talking about the mankind and this kind of the, yeah, that's what is not about crisis, but we're talking a lot about mankind, what is going with mankind, what is our brain, and what we do as a mankind through this 1000 years. And of course, when we jumping for instance to the Greek theater, I think that we don't make any progress. We don't make, we don't make progress in moral way. We make, we build in the civilization, we have the technological progress, but in fact now we very aware that we fuck up our planet and we fuck up our system and that's what we can do through this age to the years, especially after the second war, we lost it. We lost it because we ate everything and we rush and we fight for something which is not really human. And this is very interesting because significantly the last premiere because before the lockdown at the Air Wars. Was the adaptation of a very famous book by Ursula Le Guin always coming home, which is a utopia. It happens in 300 years time from now after collapse of civilization and on the ruins of the previous word, the new mankind is trying to build a new community, which has nothing to do with our neoliberal capitalistic free market system. And I strongly believe that this is kind of the sign the direction that we would have to, not only we would like to, we have to follow now more solidarity, more closer relations with the people, locality versus globality, intimacy. This is the values that I recognize I identify within my work and within our team. We are much more closer, despite the fact that we are isolated, we are closer in terms of emotions sharing thoughts sharing and also threats and all emotions that are connected with this is isolation, but Jagos once said that we don't have, we have the choice expression or depression. So we choose, which is expression to be alive means for us to work to build new plans to support this little community. I really feel it as our responsibility. Is it you are also part of the international called the global outreach. Is it getting closer locally, or do you feel there's also a moment you connect to the global world in a different way in your way. Just before we've met I had like two hours seminar with on the which means like the network of the French theaters and that connects people to make turn out like more successful in frames of Franco like French speaking word. You really can see that now we somehow more focus that of course for us who works on international. I wouldn't say like touring like an international meaning of our works. It's like the great challenge now to think what would international means because it's not obligatory that it will stick to be like the mobility. It's rather about the ideas and actually this is the model of work that we were already introducing into our company so we were inviting to work with actors that we respect and that we find inspiring and that we wanted to meet the Polish audiences and of course Polish actors with to work with our ensemble but that was based on, you know, like five, seven people coming to work with our team to produce the work that we were both responsible for and then going to tour that's the case of Kornel Mundrucco that's the case of Polish who just work with us with Yanaros. So somehow this model of work based rather on the residency in exchange than in mobility is something that is here with here with us and we discuss how it made me Now we just wait like when the flights will be possible but if flights will be still the solution to organize the presentation that's the question the great question for now like all what we have planned before like late summer has been cancelled and we are absolutely with our colleagues and we are with our colleagues who invited us for Künsten Festival des Arts and for Avignon and we like wish them the best for the for the next editions like hoping it's gonna be possible in some new frames but we hope that this what we have planned for like August and September like it's still possible for us to share because always this what we were producing was like point of departure of the discussion and exchange on emotions and point of view with new emotionality of other audiences and their habits. So we do hope that it will be still possible not only like the broadness of the performances. It's a phantom we use it and we think it's necessary but it's not necessarily the thing that we work for. There's no no thank you and I like show me the villain you guys also think globally and touring shown your work getting inspired places. And where you go on the other hand the outlook might be grimizing Germany's things perhaps till next summer there will be no public soccer games, things they will say will they will not allow it. And who knows what this will mean for music concerts and things. And of course, that paradox that churches seem to be open, but theaters not but also then perhaps people who run the church is killing their worshippers, you know, be responsible. And there's a very significant development you are guys are building a new theater. You have a vision we also have the means and you will build a new space I really would like you to talk about that new thing that at the moment if I understand why it doesn't exist yet it hasn't been built this is the architect of New York architect you work with will help you to design but it will be built and it's something new. So, tell us about the vision the idea what you have I think this is important also for the global theater world to really have the means artists led that you guys artists aren't charged to create credit up to the country of Poland despite all complications that artists aren't charged to designing and creating a theater for the 21st century. Now even being pushed with the nose into the dog shit of the digital world in a way one would say the great opportunity of it. So what what what are you guys planning how is it going to look like what is your vision. And that's the time right now, change it. Now it's like this works. It takes like, like more than 20 years. We've been because we're working the very little shelter, which was built during the second war and that is our main stage. It was built in the cellar and the underground and it was 39 and the theater was built as a shelter so that's why it's very concrete a lot of better and very narrow, because the function was that they build this theater as well as a shelter against the invasion of the Germans at that time to fascist whatever. So that that that we working in this space. So we think a lot about what will happen it will go underneath what we go when we go under the earth. So first our idea was we would like to have the stage which is really zero ground I mean equivalent with the surface of the ground. And that is our stage that is our audience that is our and access to this space must be from the different place. And we thinking about the new concept which is a lot of ideas from the past, especially from the Greek theater. We don't concerning any ideas from the Italian stage or the ideas of the romantic theater with the garden with the stairs and so and so and we don't think about that is kind of the mystery. We would like we planning we designed the theater which is transparent so it's a lot of windows there's a lot of natural light inside the inside the hour what we call it the big box so we can use as well natural light from from the ceiling from the sides that is like this because it's not the stages like we designed, we call it the big box, we have people and and the black box which of course is after mayor holds and big boxes something completely new that is like as much as possible big stage without without any machinery and and the audience and the and the it's a flat and there and two or three or four five performances depending how we would like to create the audience and and we said as well it was very important at the time we discuss a lot with Roman that we would like to have a big theater for the big audience, but we would like to have this privilege that we can play for 200 people for 300 people 500 people for 50 people so that is completely flexible how we designed it the performance there and that is like it's very the idea was that the theater is open transparent and kind of democratic let's say if you can use it so it's very accessible from outside and and we can this building when it will when we did this building is in the center for so this is very important the very special grant as well in the front of culture palace is really center as historical center and ideological center because as as well we are in the part of ghetto where was the ghetto in so in the in this region so we have the respect for that and after the second war of course that was the manifestation communistic manifestation square so that is very meaningful place for us and is really in the center and this design for for the future we don't know Frank now what will be the situation about because we achieve everything what we can achieve but we didn't start the building to build it and and now we have permission everything is okay but the crisis which is coming in Poland the crisis is which is now in Warsaw already the president of Warsaw said that this big crisis because that is as well political become government and local institution local towns that Warsaw is without so we we know that we build it but we don't know we can't say when it's supposed to be open in the first time but now we don't know but as I said the ideology behind this is very very very big and Thomas Pfeiffer from so how it was he team is a is a great great team and is really honest to work with him because he start to talk about what it means theater for us what it means and he was watching the performances he said I see that your performances are very very fragile so I like big massive very massive building because you have to protect what you play inside and especially in Warsaw which is really historically have very harsh harsh really memory what happened in the past and he said it you still need a shelter and that is a shelter and I hope that we really I don't know even if we how we can use it I don't know if they the building will be in our lives but I know that the building will be the building will be very important big statement for Warsaw because it's visible is strong is powerful and the quality of this design and this what we're going to do is timeless yeah yeah I think it will be also for the city of Warsaw a fantastic symbol of readvention of a creativity giving a sign that Warsaw is part of the of the 21st century of the world and people will look up and a lot of people will come travel to Poland to Warsaw to see it Roman did the digital play a role did you had that already in mind projections VR 360 when you when you were thinking about the new the new architecture. Well no well no and yes because we were thinking about architecture as neutral space for creators not designed or defined defined space because you know in a traditional theatrical space everything is already designed and defined. Usually you have to to to to cross all these architecture barriers like steps bigger gates there's nothing of this kind in this project and because this is the theater for future we didn't we decided to not to design the technology because we don't know what will be technical possibilities for theater and performing arts in a four or five years time the building was supposed to be open in 24 so having in mind the the tempo of the development of the technologies we cannot predict so so it's really open it's a huge huge space as Gzegorz said over 2,500 square meters and 1617 meters high. So it's really huge you cannot just see the the walls when you're in the center of the space. So it allows everything so you can you can shape the space with your creativity and imagination. And at the same time is it is as much simple as it's possible so the so we believe that low tech low tech is is really important for future theater. Theater art. So by the way you create the space you create the possibility for the possibility, and it's incredible to think. Yeah, and if I can something add, I really it's this situation in culture this disaster reminds me of martial war in the beginning of new democracy. And of course, it refers to the period after Second World War when Europe and the whole globe was like recovering from recurring from from the disaster of war and the development of cultural institutions was crucial. You remember that Avignon Festival and Edinburgh Festival were founded as a design that people are coming returning to life and life means means culture. Avignon now is focusing on the screens and watching films, listening to radio theater broadcasting culture will really play important role in this post coronavirus words so I strongly believe that our building our idea of a new new theatrical space will be really a sign of returning to life revival. Revival. Yeah, I think in the way once theater is working up again and the life and the society is okay. This is why theater is so important as seismograph. You can see everything that's why we study it and why we love it, and are so deeply affected by its things on a TV show we kind of what we would never tolerate in a theater. It's a different standard and it really means things are up incredible to think that Tia Versova is in a bunker that was built against the Nazis. Now you are in your homes, confined but having in your mind a space that is gigantic that will be done hopefully it's imagined and imaginary theater is still at the moment. I heard, I got a talk to me about it there's a Trojan project or something what will be what are you dreaming up for the opening of post-coronavirus there's something special you are in mind because of course it will be a significant thing and I guess all these thousands of hours of technical and architecture meeting you must also think what's going to happen when you open it. Yeah, I think it's a good opportunity to mention about our plans to make an open call for young creators for digital theatrical projects. This is what we are planning to make in autumn. A kind of very wide open call for projects which will combine performative tools and performative art with digital tools media. And of course we are still planning real productions and we are premieres. Grzegorz is making Tempest which is due to open in October and we are collaborating with Luc Perceval, Belgium, the director who is supposed to direct three sisters in spring next year. Starting rehearsals still this year in November so like that will be the first residential kind of collaboration. So yes, we really, we think like in two streams the one stream is supporting our plans and the second new activity in digital environment. But I would say that we are somehow fragile and like we are not going into the thematic of corona as such because we think we just need to think about the values and of course we are now witnessing the situation when within one weekend or a week like the European Union as we knew just collapsed and like all the borders were closed again and we are now all defined to stay at homes but then to stay in our country. And actually this openness of the borders is really not a question for now like nobody knows the answer and it happened like so fast. So for sure everything what we were thinking about like the regions like thinking about this what connects us where are the differences now have like new, new light, new context in which we need to think about that we I don't think that we will like to know always underline that we are under the pandemic but I'm sure that in all our hearts minds and plans, this fact of this experience that we are now all struggling somehow, not always in the empowering way will be something that we will take into consideration. But as you Poland you know we know how to make it like in between the lines. So this new project you just announced is you will ask artists to participate in the project of Tia Varsova. Roman. Yes, it's okay. The project will be based on our previous experiences of workshops based on terrain formula. There was Taren Varsova and Taren Tiar. Maybe you remember the performance by Grzegorz Jarzyna risk everything which was presented in New York. It is one of the results of one of these workshops. So we used to work in non theatrical places in Varsova in 2004 and five in 2014 we invited some talented new emerging directors and dramaturgs to to make their own pieces pieces with with our ensemble. And now and now we are making the same but in a digital space. It will be also an open call for artists not only performative artists also from visual arts or video or program is given. And the idea is to combine theatrical tools with a digital art of digital tools to place our active some of some part of our activity in internet. Of course, it's a proposal to develop new new new new competences, but also it's a way to enlarge our audiences. And what we've been observing now that is that many people from small towns all over Poland are following our broadcasting of our performances. These people don't have access to our performances every day so it's it's really. I mean, and they are very dedicated devoted to counter theater culture. They react very emotionally so I see a chance in in connecting with these new audiences with digital tools. Great so in this time brings out new connections locally in Warsaw. Gregorz is talking to the neighbors why he do his plans artists talking together but also people from all over Poland see the performances and then when they come to Warsaw they will know about you guys and they might even know about the new building and come and create something new so things are really are changing you also have traditionally invited filmmakers novelist people who are not theater people don't have a lot of scar and others. You know to come early on you have been a pioneer and opening the doors of theater and the idea that you now have a space with this translucent light comes in as non defined inside open for even the unknown. I think it's a fantastic and brilliant idea and we all will be very curious what you come up as we know how much work stands behind this how much dedication and also how much exceptional talent is it and I'm sorry that also for you guys all these plans are in the air that hope that the city of Warsaw will keep that up this extraordinary project and this virus really of course is disrupting. I'm everything and but it's one of the three things I think for another person I said you know that they're certainly you know this one is that you will be interrupted and whatever. You are doing so really thank you for for taking the time after a long and a hard week for sharing and you have been often to the seat will be for also. So thank you for your early on sharing your experience and your work you were at Saint Anne's and Susan Feldman who brought you over and then bam. And we all look forward to seeing the work of T ever sova and maybe we check in once again in a couple of months or whatever from now let's see how long at all, because what has changed and what not but it's really a real insight into the Polish situation which has a way of hope I have to say compared to many many other talks we have here that you engage in with the future building things you're trying to make something happen that you're independent of course it's not commercial what you do. It is subsidized by government and this is a good thing and but still with all the freedom you have to create something is extraordinary what mankind creates in that way so thank you really for for for listening to our listeners also thank you we know how much is up there online and and how busy we all the sudden become and we still have to look for time to read a book. And I hope you join us next week the great Milo Rao from Switzerland was based in Belgium will be with us with your check or the legendary the significance thinker and philosopher and also practitioner of theater and of course, the guy who created the word of the performance art performance in my movie ways and I cannot wait to hear what what he thinks Basil Jones from the handspring the great handspring puppet company from South Africa, and we'll be here often as a Seattle from who is in developing in the end a response one of the few steers if we I understand right in France that tries to crap and deal with the situation and then also the great Guillermo Contarón from jealous a really great playwright director always plays always have been a socially engaged context and content but truly also an artist to the core. So, and I hope it will be as illuminating as it was today for today to listen to you so really thank you for joining us and really all the best for this theater and stay safe and and continue the good work. Thank you all. Thank you Frank. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Take care. Stay safe. And thank you for how around from Emerson College hosting us and it's a big privilege to be here every week. Thank you.