 Cinema sometimes. Look at that big screen over there. That's a lot of cinema. Oh, look at it. Wow. That would be a cool little game if you play as Martin Scorsese running around collecting cinema. Oh, there's just little rails. Oh, yeah. But some of them are fakies. Some of them are like Marvel movies, and you have to avoid them. They're like traps. They slow you down. I just like it now as a Banjo-Kazooie, but it's a little Martin Scorsese running around collecting film rails instead of jiggies. Yeah, then there's like. Enemies that are just like Iron Man but a bloated zombie version that goes. Yeah, I like some big or like Fat Cat producers. Are they gonna get him? Yeah. And he's just gonna run around. But who's in his backpack? Who's his companion? Is it Robert De Niro? Leonardo. Leonardo. Leonardo. Along the way, he could like get power-ups from great heroes of cinema like Christopher Nolan and like an Alfred Hitchcock are there. Just like they provide him new abilities. Yep. I feel like that's something that's dramatic to their style. What about like, does he encounter any writers like Ernest Hemingway or something or Dostoevsky? Is this like a- That'd be at his low point maybe. Why, his low point is that authors will help him. Well, you know how you need a certain amount of jiggies to get through certain doors. It's gonna be like he needs funding to get through the doors and you gotta appeal to producers. You have minigames. It's like in Kirby where there's a minigame where you work in fast food. It's just like, of course, as he's working at some fictional McDonald's. That could be your fictional plot is that he makes a really bad movie that everyone hates and so he becomes destitute and he has to, and on the streets and he has to work himself back up to being the great Martin Scorsese he was. Has to start by learning all his lessons along the way. It's like Assassin's Creed basically. Has to start his journey with making a Marvel movie becoming the thing he hates. Yeah, you do one for me and one for them sort of thing. I made a bad movie and naturally had to start from the bottom again and work the way back up into everyone's good books. Now they just get promoted. The only job we can get you, Martin, after that last movie is you gotta direct a Marvel film. This is all we've got. That's the only way that you're ever gonna make a movie again. It's like those like Dev Tycoon games. But you know, it's a minigame in the Banjo-Kazooie type game where you just gotta design a film and it's like big blue laser. You know, the more money you put in, like the more money budget they give you, you have to get 250 million and then you can have like every A-list star and huge battle over XUGI. Maybe you're like entering into a quiz game, right? It's a quiz minigame where they give you three answers and you have to pick the things that will make the most money. Whenever you get the answer wrong, the game screams that you're wrong. And just like Dev Tycoon games, it's like depending on the era, like if you're picking in 2019. Oh yeah, yeah. So like if it was 2009, it's gonna be all of the young adult dystopian science fiction like film adaptations. Meanwhile, if it's in like the, you know, 2010s it's superhero films or if it's in like the late 90s, it's like raunchy comedies. Yeah. The hunger games. I was just saying, this is a billion dollar idea. Depression, hunger's no game. A billion dollar idea. It's more like a more billion dollar idea. Oh yeah, more views, that's been reignited because of Madden Webb. Common Morbius and W. Oh, Morbius games. They're gonna ship the two together, Madden Webb and Morbius. I like the idea that all these superhero films will flop in and so Jared Lee goes into like the maid office to be like, you see, it wasn't me, it wasn't Morbius. It was the current state of film. And so we need to do this again. There was nothing I could do. It was impossible for me to fix this. I was caught in the rip and I was taken out of the city. People are screaming for Morbius too. That's right. This is what they want. This is what gamers crave. Morbius too. He does seem like a gamer's hero, doesn't he? Hey guys, you'll be printing money. So welcome, welcome everybody. This is EFAP number 250, was it nine? Yeah, we're gonna be asking and answering the question of is cinema kill? Or rather we're gonna be looking at someone else asking and answering it. Two other people in fact. Possibly have a back and forth ourselves as to whether or not we think such a thing could be said. We might on the block to be checked out would be the Mr. Stuckmanator. What is it? Stuckmanizer. Stuckmanizer. Stuckmanizer. Stuckmanizer. Stuckmanize me captain. It's... It's say what you want about his review style. You can't deny this. That's a fucking cool ass for our cash raise. He's just really, he's so explosive and charismatic. Yeah, I was gonna say it captures the whole vibe. Yeah, that is Stuckman through and through. There is nothing more or less that is Chris Stuckman. Now, you and Chad, you've been Stuckmanized before but it's worn off. That's why you gotta get Stuckmanized again. Yeah, you have to get reused every once in a while. He's recently put out a video called The Future of Film Why I'm Worried. Why do you think you would have put out a video like that? Well, in the thumbnail, the fucking Marvels is in there. Oh my god. It's like, wait a minute. You gotta be careful there, Stuckmanizer because he made a little promise about the future of his videos about two years ago. I'm gonna watch that first because someone I remember. And so that means it'll be interesting to see what video he's gonna make now with the context provided by this older video. So I've got you all the watch together. I assume you're all in. Oh yeah, hopefully. I am all in. I'm going all in, baby. Yes. All right, then. Well, I think we're gonna get started. This is just a selection of like two minutes. This is, when he was becoming a filmmaker, he realized very quickly. When he was becoming a man. He didn't wanna be a stinky, gross YouTuber for much longer. And so he's- That's why he looks so not like one of those. Not like a YouTuber. Oh yeah, remember one of his most fucking famous things that we've covered was, was that in a video? Was it a Twitter thing where he was like, actually wait, I'll put that, that'll be relevant once you hear what he says here. Cause this is all important to understanding his point of view about the film industry and his way of addressing it. So like I said, this was two years ago. I want you to be able to make this and finance this and trust me, those are the types of things I would love to make videos about. As far as movie reviews, I'm still going to talk about movies. What I'm not gonna do anymore is trash filmmakers. And I know that for some people that's- Trash filmmakers? Yeah, well, we'll let him continue cause you need more context for it, I think. Strange. But it is strange. It's all very, wait a minute. But Remy the Rat told me that, and Gusto told me that a trash film can come from anywhere. True, it's all in the concept of, cause some people are familiar with this already. He basically says he doesn't like being mean to filmmakers anymore or really films because the whole thing is he's becoming a filmmaker and that he appreciates the craft and that we can't as, this is what he said on Twitter, I think, we can't as critics who take a half hour out of our day to like shit something online, compare like our workload and our ability to like shit on things compared to the people who sacrifice like a whole year or more to create a film. Like it's fucked up. What does that got to do with it? The amount of time you put into something doesn't stop the fact that you made trash and therefore there is something to be said about you because you made it. Well, but consider that they spent a long time and they really cared. I suppose the more interesting part is it's assumption that it takes half an hour. So that was the part that we took issue with, like. Yeah. I say as much as like three years ago, I can't remember when we covered this cause I think it was a tweet, but I was obviously not very happy considering the whole, in the time it takes me to make like one video, he may have made like fucking 10,000 or some shit. And he'll be like, that's what we do. And it's like, hmm. Like. No. And you know, I'm not just speaking for myself here. This is plenty of people on this cast right now know what it's like to make videos that take a hell of a lot longer than to sit down after you've seen the film and hit record and go, yeah, I liked it. You put the Patreon. Or didn't. The time that you put into something doesn't affect the quality of it anyway. Like essentially he's saying just because they put in more time, it means that it should be valued as such. It's like, no, it's the end product that matters. Yeah. It's not what matters. The angle you was trying to highlight, and this is where like, I think you should have just focused his time there was just, he just feels bad. He feels bad making fun of people who work really hard to make stuff. But he moved into we as critics don't spend very long compared to them. And so we have no right to like shit all over the work which obviously is. Yeah, it's gotta be a broader moral argument rather than more of just a pretty straightforward self-preservation argument, which is that you don't wanna be the guy. I was gonna say that became what everyone thought he was saying it for. It's he's becoming a filmmaker. And so now he's like, you know, making fun of filmmakers isn't cool guys. It's like, hmm. Interesting. It's just that there's a taboo against publicly voicing negative criticism if you work in the industry itself. So now that he wants to be in the industry, he can't do that anymore. That's really what it is. For those who don't know, as far as I'm concerned, like we entertain the hypothetical sometimes, but the idea that I or Fringy or Rags or anyone here will get anywhere near Disney in a controlling way, like for products being created is never gonna fuck it happen. If there was a black list, we would be on the black lists, black lists, black lists. Like it's just the amount of shit we've said. They're fucking to us. Yeah. In no way. And that's just, that's the deal you make to say what you say about this. And to an extent, as a company, you don't really wanna hire someone who's just blasted you for years. Like that's not really the smartest thing to do. There's a couple. Is that true? Because like periodically in my comment section, I'll get people who very confidently tell me that if I was really as good as I seem to think that I am, then I'd be in charge of Disney. Well, here's the real trick. It's not about hating Disney. The best way to get hired by Disney for so let's say Star Wars is to hate Star Wars. So if you do, they'll be like, oh, you're perfect for the job. If you hate the intellectual property for some reason, many, many, many companies think it's a good idea to hire you. There you go. It's really hard to break into that. Cause like I can't waste a hundred million dollars on a series that bombs and get promoted if I don't have the hundred million dollars to waste in the first place. So how am I ever supposed to break into this racket? Definitely something to think about. I have heard there were some tweets that were like, it's so unfair that the Marvels is like crashing and burning all because of these like hateful people making these hateful videos and they'll show like drinker, disbrew whoever else. And it's kind of like, man, you guys have the power to just bring down Disney. They should just hire you at this point. You've got the power to bring them back up probably as well, right? If you just say, hey. I can't even get people to press the like button. I love it. Yes, but you see the Marvels was gonna soar in the box office if it weren't for you. So. If it runs for the pesky actor strike. So keep it all out in mind. We'll just continue here. See what else he says. And I also know that that will probably cost me some views, but I just don't enjoy it anymore. I don't enjoy talking negatively about film. I don't like to do this that often, especially when someone talks about their own feelings, but I don't believe you. I don't think I believe anybody who says they don't enjoy talking negatively about film. That seems like a pretty broad point of view. So you're not gonna enjoy making fun of the room ever again, really. I was about to say, if you went for the DEMIC or the room or any one of those sort of classic bad movies, he'd probably be like, well, no, those are different. He would say those different. Yeah. They're not real movies. Right. What do you do when you just talk casually to someone and you just saw a horrible movie and everybody agrees it's horrible? You just go like, yeah, but they worked really hard. They worked so hard. And then over. I have to imagine that as part of his creative process, he would surely look at some movies that he's invariably gonna watch and come away with a not great opinion about them and spend some amount of time thinking about why that is. You can use harsher words and say that that's trashing a movie in your brain, I guess. But at the end of the day, like that's probably gonna happen. And that's not a bad thing, right? If Thauro's take, if he said, I'm just not gonna do it in video form because I don't like what it spreads, that'd be one thing. But he just said, I don't enjoy talking negatively about film. It's like, not at all, really. Anymore, because he used to. Yeah, he did used to. He made, he's a serious cold man. He's a new man, he's evolved as a critic. He has hilariosity reviews where he trashes bad movies. He's not making them anymore. It was hard to make amateur films as a kid and I knew that, but it's very difficult to make them professionally as an adult as well. And meeting filmmakers, talking to them at festivals, going on to their sets, really seeing how much work goes into even your average not-so-great movie. I don't know why you didn't know that already. Yeah. That's a strange thing to say, yeah. You wouldn't need to go on to the sets as opposed to watching behind the scenes stuff. You'd be able to see all the incredible work that gets done. You don't need to go on a tour of a game development studio to know that game development is a difficult process. How many times have we watched a film where they've shown you something? You go, fuck, that would have taken ages. Yeah, like you don't need to see the behind the scenes for children and men to know that that one take took an immense amount of planning and work. Or a bridge too far. The amount of shit we saw in that film, we were like, God, they did all that for real. All of the hardware techniques, all of the equipment, getting all of the people organized and getting them moving around. We've got to borrow the army for this movie, guys. And yeah. I don't know if the creative endeavors were difficult. And one of the most regretful things you'll find about watching any of the assembled documentaries is like, wow, look at all these talented people working so hard to make the shit that the writers like squash into nothing in MCU projects. You're also a lucky one. Yeah. You see all the work run into the sets and the costumes and everything. And then when they start talking about the script. Dude, it's fucking crazy when they start talking about the characters. They're like, they go in through such incredible journeys. They, you know, and they're never specific. They'll just be like, yeah, that's just, you know, they're doing things this and that. You sure did, boy. They talked about, they talked about Wren Slayer for maybe 30 seconds. And the purpose of this little 30 second point was to say she's not, she's not a straightforward villain. She's complicated. Anyway, moving on. Yeah. There's also the Jonathan Major section. They I think use his actual name once. The rest is Kang and it's only for about, it was like 40 seconds, I think. Yeah. And it's mainly how he relates to the plot. Everyone else got a big section, but his was cut down completely. He is so getting like erased from MCU history. He's out as in any case, yeah, as people, you don't even need to be a hyper film fanatic to have seen behind the scenes shit and to go, whoa, that looks incredible. So it feels really inauthentic for him to say, I visited a film set and now I don't feel like making fun of films, which is also funny. I started, do you think it was like, I started making connections and I started talking to people when I started getting in with, now I was like, oh, these are people I can talk to. These are bridges that I can build. These are ways for me to access the industry. Yeah. That's how I talk it was, I'm fine with badmouthing these people, but now I've met them and now they're actually people in my head. I don't like, I feel bad. That's the takeaway a lot of people got from this because they didn't believe the reasoning he's providing because it just doesn't sound right. It sounds fucking weird. Well, it doesn't make any sense saying like, you don't want to judge something because they put time into it. Like, it takes more effort to burn a steak than to cook it properly. Like, there are many things that you can put a lot of effort in and you still destroy it. Like, effort in, it doesn't, the quality of something isn't affected by the amount of effort you put into it. You know what's funny as fuck with all this? His biggest inspirations all shit on shit movies. Like, there's something they all do. That is definitely a thing that does happen. I mean, look, Mark, I mean, look, he's in the thumbnail. Look at him. His shit on all the people's movie. It is. Yeah, that's okay. But they're allowed to because they're on top of the world. They could get away with a lot of stuff. He can't go. The legend bonus is like, oh, okay. The idea that he will never come across a movie that has a scene that's so goofy he'll laugh and make fun of it with his friends. It's just like, you want me to believe now that you'll sit there going, guys, come on. They worked hard on that scene. You have no idea how hard this is. It comes across as petty. Like, if that's the only defense you've got, everyone's going, this is awful. It's like, yeah, but they put a lot of time into it. So I feel sorry for them. It's essentially the way it comes across that statement. I mean, I would say that that's probably a big part of it, but I imagine another part of it as well is just not wanting to burn bridges. Yeah. If he said that, I think everybody would just be like, oh, yeah, of course. But instead it needs to be presented as some like moral decision. Yeah, we don't understand it. But at the same time, I feel like everyone would be called to a cuck if he said, I can't speak negatively about people's films anymore. Okay, I need to have a chance in this industry, guys. It would be interesting to say that out loud though, because that is true to a large degree. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't like you for it though, because now they'd be like, I bet he really hates my movies, just lying to my face about it. I mean, if five movies come out and you say I'm not speaking negatively about any movies anymore, and then you go, one was good, two was good, three, I saw three, four was good, five was good. It's like, so. Yeah. Like, you either lie or it's obvious what you think anyway. Isn't that what's his name, Hideo Kojima does? Yes, on Twitter. It's very funny. I saw the Marvels full stop. It was one of the most obvious tweets I've ever seen. Because normally when he sees a movie, he likes it because like, oh, like this and this and this, that he just saw. I just saw the Marvels in IMAX. I like what the film had to say, the stuff that happened in it sure was things in boy. It was one of the films of all time, that's what people say. Goes into even your average not so great movie. I just don't feel like doing that anymore. I don't wanna talk negatively about filmmakers. I don't wanna trash filmmakers. It would be strange for me to be making movies and also shitting on other filmmakers. Also, that's a different argument than it's not true. It wouldn't be strange. Yeah, that's strange. So here's the hypothetical. What if someone makes a movie that's like a super mega Nazi and wants to kill all the Jews for real and makes a movie? You're still not gonna talk that about that. Does it supply to YouTubers? Are you allowed to shit on fellow YouTubers or is that weird? Cause you're a YouTuber too. Cause he makes YouTube videos. I mean, it's, yeah. Maybe there are a lot of authors who were literary critics. Like I don't know why it's treated as this harsh divide where it's like, there are the creators and then there are critics who are not creators even if they're doing it through some creative medium of some kind. Yeah. What's really interesting about him is like, how many times do we hear, you can't make fun of it, you don't do it yourself. This is the opposite. You can't make fun of it, you do it yourself. You do it yourself. Which again, I don't think it's any surprise that the kind of people who feel compelled to create may also be the kind of people who feel compelled to speak about the, like about the industry that they're a part of or the art form that they love. Like it's not really surprising at all because you're passionate about it. So yeah, I was going to say as well, like if you think about this from multiple parameters, some people have mentioned in chat already, it's like, so what does he have to say about someone like Drinker, who's trying to make film, trying to talk about where film should go and also criticizing films as they come out. So you just see him as like a, an enigma. He's like, why would you do any of that? You crazy man. That is like an impossibility. Like it's a, like a married bachelor. It's an impossibility. Yeah. Which would create it also critic. It just doesn't, this feels bullshit. It's just like, what are you, this doesn't mean, because as well as you talk about critics and the difference, the line that's drawn, who would you say is the biggest critic of any director's film? Probably the director. Yeah. Yeah. That may have been true now. Certainly for the creatives that are like, you know, super invested. Every single shot is scrutinized, right? They're like obsessed. Because it's part of the process. It's just a part of the process. And then it just comes down to sometimes people don't just do the one thing. Sometimes people do more than the one thing. Yeah. Sometimes people aren't just a director. Sometimes people aren't just an author. Like a lot of authors are journalists. Or again, literary critics. Like that's not uncommon. There's plenty of that on this platform already. There are. There's so many arguments he's making that are so strange. It's like, there's plenty of praise on this fucking platform too. So, I mean, you stop doing it, no? Yeah. So many channels dedicated to talking about bad films and negativity about movies. There's no shortage of that. I'm a positive guy. I'm a positive guy. What's the point in being positive for the sake of being positive? That's not genuine at all. That's when you become cinema wins. There's a lot of people that do that. There's a lot of Twitch streamers that are like, this is a positive stream. I will be positive all the time. There also tend to be the ones that burn out because it's fake. Nobody's positive all the time. So, if you try and do it, you will inevitably burn out faster than someone who's just, you know, you see the good and the bad of everything. That's just how they are. And there's definitely YouTube channels that do the same. They will never criticise anything. So, even his argument about there's so many negative channels. Yeah, there's also a lot of fake positive ones. Dude, the funny ones. There's an implicit criticism in all of the I'm going to deliberately be positive and only talk about good films though as well. And the implicit criticism is that you're not then going to talk about something. And by omission, you're effectively saying that that thing is kind of shit and not worth my time or I'm deliberately ignoring it to avoid seeming negative. Which is itself a negative impression. All those people who say, well, I'm going to go and talk about this art house thing because, you know, I'm just above Marvel. Well, what are you saying really principally there? Is it that you really, really like this particular art house thing? Or is it that you think Marvel is just really, really crap, but too many people are saying it. And so, you're going to just pretend like you're better than to criticise it. I mean, a lot of people want to be different. A lot of people want to be the one who actually, you know, I said this before it was cool. I'm the one who pioneered the trend. That was me. Me, baby, me. That there is a strange amount of people where it's like, I can't like this thing because it's popular. It's like they have to find the edgy thing. Nobody, even if it's awful, they'd rather say that they like the awful thing just to stand out and be different. I think no offense to him. If Theo was here, he'd say he has a bit of that. If ever something gets popular, he suddenly like is like, not a part of it anymore. It used to be the cool, small, known thing. Now everyone like, I mean, it's been known to kill franchises, right? Like a lot of people would cite that Rick and Morty was destroyed by becoming so popular. Yeah. To an extent, some people think like Dark Souls or from as a franchise creator, like they become more homogenised over time to appeal to larger audiences. But, you know, so you can point to things more than just the fact that it is getting more popular, but there are people who feel that way, yeah. On this platform already, there are so many channels dedicated to talking about bad films and negativity about movies. There's no shortage of that. When you see a bad film sometimes, if you're a film critic and I can tell you this from experience, you get kind of excited because you realize, oh, like, I could really like make a good review of this and I could really talk about all the problems with this and just really let them know how shitty they did. Yeah, that's fine. It's so funny to see between my channel. The motive is like, yeah, that's a fine motive because you're talking about trying to create something entertaining, right? But like, shouldn't he then realize like, oh wait, if I'm to praise anything, then naturally there has to be good examples, create bad examples as a scale, right? Why couldn't you always make it? Because I hate the whole positive negative thing. It's like, if there's a problem with how someone made a movie, let's say a dead pixel, how crazy would it be if someone made a fucking movie with a dead pixel in it? That would be nuts. No one would ever do that. But let's say someone like, I don't know, Zack Snyder did that. That would be nuts, that would be crazy. He'd never do that. But if he did that, you could point that out and be like, you need to be careful about this sort of stuff. Luckily it can be sorted out in post, especially if it's streaming, where if you just fill in the fucking dead pixel every time it shows up with one, it's easy to solve. But you don't have to make that some kind of horrible, negative, angry thing. That can be positive. You can be like, look at this example of an experienced director making a very small and obvious mistake that you wouldn't expect. And the solution is several, and this has happened before in history, and you can talk about cameras and pixels and stuff. You know what I mean? He's broadened out negative as just being something that you can't do anymore. I've already said you guys are so baffled that people aren't as toxic toward others as you guys are. I don't think you're in the right stream. I don't know if you've listened to anything that we've said so far. But... And also, yeah, if you're a filmmaker yourself, you'd want to keep your own house clean, so to speak, you know? Yeah. There's the thing though, the whole negative positive, I don't like that criticism is always considered negative. There's no positive that can come from it. I find no joy in that anymore. I just don't. A few years back, I stopped doing my worst of the year videos for that same reason. And ever since then, I've had a tough time enjoying negativity about film because I love film so much and I want to be a champion for film. I don't see how you wouldn't be a champion for film by also recognizing my film is failing. Yeah, I'd say we're a champion. We're champions for films. Push up what's good. We talk a lot about shit stuff. Suppress what's bad, or not even suppress. Highlight what's bad, right? Like, that's how you would put it. You want to... General improvement is like an awful lot of the mistakes that are being made in a lot of modern films are really basic things, but unless you're really looking for them, I certainly feel you're starting out as a writer and you're not necessarily putting into words everything you feel about what you're watching. And so like, your influences are influencing you without you really understanding completely why. It can actually be really helpful to say when I was watching you guys before I was on YouTube and I was sort of writing on the side and things. It did get me thinking, hang on a minute, yeah, no, does this character action actually pay off anything later on? Am I making him do this because the plot needs him to? Or is it the thing the character would do in the action given that the character is who I've written him to be? And like that stuff, it sounds really simple when you just lay it out like that, but speaking for myself and I think quite a lot of other people, it's not always at the forefront of your mind. So criticizing these things is in aid of a general improvement, not just in the film you're criticizing, but also other people who might be inspired by that film or by what you're saying to go and write something better. It's ultimately, it's an aspirational, optimistic thing, not a, I hate this thing, I'm just gonna shit on it for laughs. And if you can't break down why something is bad specifically and explain it, then you'd find it very difficult to make something that was good. And we might not actually know. If you can't explain it, then you might not know it. I think, yeah, and it generates the scale. I don't see how you can have praise without criticism as a whole. I mean, you can create an environment where you don't ever speak of criticism, but it's always implicit in everything that you say is praiseworthy. It devalues the praise as well because there's only really two options. Either you just don't talk about the bad movies or you lie and you say they're good or you point out what you liked about them and ignore what you didn't like. Yeah, what do you just do if it sounds like, what do you think of the characters and you just go? Yeah, you know. They worked really hard to do the acting. You know, if you receive praise from somebody who is willing to criticize you, that praise is meaningful. But if it's somebody who just says, hey, yeah, good, yeah, nice. Well done, good job all the time. What do you mean to do with that? I guess you just have to assume that you've been getting it right all the time and that there's no need to improve or change or grow. I guess so. And you have to keep yourself sharp. You have, as a person, you can't fall out of, I mean, we've seen it time and time again with directors. I mean, look at Ridley Scott and James Cameron where you're just like, what the fuck happened? What, like, what happened? Well, how did you lose your edge? Did you stop caring? Did you change into a negative way? Like, what is it? You need to be able to keep yourself honed and sharp. If you had like a friend who's a filmmaker, would he actually give them no tips? Because that would be negative. The implication being that they're failing. I would imagine that, I gotta imagine that's not the case. Exactly, right? You would have to not be the case. No, among friends or with myself, I would be critical. But then at that point, you would have to extrapolate out and say, well, if you can accept that there is value in criticizing yourself or receiving criticism from your friends, do you also believe that there is some value from criticism being levied publicly or from other people who are completely unrelated or from you to other things that are completely unrelated to you? Is there any benefit in public criticism of creative endeavors? I think that's exactly the case. I think that's how Hollywood is now. Because many times you go through these movies and you're like at no point, did any of you think that this was awful? Did nobody tell you it was awful? No one said anything. No one doubted anything. And it's just everyone on the sets are yes. Yeah, only things. And not they'll get fired. Come to mind was Iman Valani, right? That she had a thing of talking about continuity, which was like wild to hear. It was just like, what? Someone in Marvel is talking about something making sense. That's weird. You saw how, is it General Ortega was treated when she was like, this character needs to do. You had Henry Cavill on the Witcher. Every single time anyone goes, I don't like this. I think this needs to be changed. They're always treated as a problem. They always headbutt other people. And General Ortega, if it hadn't been the massive hit it was, probably would have faced a similar thing that Henry Cavill did. Yeah, which is absurd. Like they seem to be very much unique highlights of actors who are invested in the characters behaving as they should, so to speak. But they've like beaten that out of everybody in the MCU and Star Wars at this point. We'll just do everything. It's so strange though, isn't it? Because when you watch the old Bungie Vidox, one of the things that they consistently say is that they are in an environment where everybody feels comfortable, just very like brashly criticizing each other's work. Just not trying to couch it in pleasant terms, but just saying this sucks. You need to do it again or you need to fix it. This isn't working. And then they highlight that as a positive because it means that everybody's on the same page. Everybody's pushing each other. Everyone gets their turn. Everyone's open for it. Yeah, no one's above it and no one's beneath it. Ultimately, the point is to make a great game. And of course, Bungie used to make great games. Yes, they did. He used to make great games. It did work. That process of being very openly critical of each other. So I am going to... You need to bring, it's this culture. You need to build up a culture around you where you can do these things. And a particular culture will, it will, at least as long as you can maintain that culture, it will sort of keep you on the right track. It will set you on a good path forward. Yeah, I'm in a writers room pretty much every day at the moment and was bored in pretty much with the explicit instruction. Tell us if we're being shit. And so I get... It's like working shit. Yeah, it's like I get to sit there and say, does that make sense? No, it doesn't make sense. And everyone takes it nicely and then occasionally I'll have to write something and someone will say exactly the same thing. And it can be a really horrifying process because you've sat down for hours and you've penned something and you think, actually, I'm pretty proud of that. And then it sits down in the writers room and someone says, hang on, that bit right at the beginning just makes no sense and the rest of it falls apart. And it's not nice when you're told that, but actually it's absolutely necessary and it pretty much happens even the iniquity as well. And so the finished product will be so much better because you have, as you say, this culture of people being perfectly honest with each other in terms of their creative decisions. And the hope is that at the end of that something comes out which is at least coherent but ideally very, very good. But it wouldn't be if nobody was sitting around in that writers room saying, yeah, that thing you did was a bit shit. The point being, if there is a benefit to doing that in these sort of circumstances, is there a benefit from public criticism? I don't see how the answer could possibly be, no, there is no benefit at all whatsoever. I remember it comes back to how he feels. He doesn't enjoy it anymore. Doesn't like the experience. I mean, if that's the reason, then okay. Well, I don't buy it. I think that if a friend said, where can I improve? I mean, if he said, I can't tell you because it makes me feel awful. He'd be like, wha? I don't know. I guess I'd almost be tempted to, well, then can you do that and help me still? Yeah, can you deal with the pain just for me as a favor? Like as a friend, you know, over cool. He's like, I'll try. And he says, you need better lighting to know. Oh, you're seeing the film's too dark. Why do I want to be a champion for film? So I am going to distance myself from film criticism and embrace film appreciation. That's crazy. That's your channel. Well, so the isn't strictly negative. Well, it goes both ways. He said he's going to embrace film appreciation. What is it to appreciate if you don't recognize where it falls and where it succeeds? What is it to appreciate without some form of critical process of analyzing what is good and bad? Watching all the terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible movies these last X years during EFAP has certainly given me great appreciation, not even not even just for the really good movies, but even for the fine movies. The movies are OK. I'm like, oh, OK, I can appreciate this movie. That's an OK film. Kind of how it goes. But so that's to give you a context for something he intended to do at that point to make sure you understand his position on that. And then he made a video called the future of film, which is the main event. All right, it's just worth keeping this in mind while we go on to his opinions of what's happened to Flem. Well, you've got to support that. That's been a different entry. No, no rock music. Yeah, he's serious now. He's not growing up. We've grown up, Fringy. We must leave childish things behind. He's not going to stuck when I says. Movies are very filmish. Oh, what's going on, everybody? Hope you're having a great. I hate that intro so much. I really don't like that at all. I think that's awful. That's I think I prefer the old one, honestly, his old one. Yeah, I was a little bit more earnest and fun. This one is good to the punch as well. I was pretty short. That one sounded like explosions. Sounds were unpleasant, but honestly, I do. Great day. So this is not going to be a typical movie review. It's going to be more of a discussion video based off of a few different topics that relate to Marvel and movie theaters. Martin Scorsese and his opinions. I've never really talked about that. At this point, Martin may as well just be cinema. That's how it works now for discussion. He was sent by God as a film reality to movie gods. Before about how he saved us all lives in cinema. And those movies are more of roller coaster rides. I want to talk about movie theaters and well, that's the thing in it. We can't even do anything with those phrases conversation. I think on one of the the previous anniversary, I can't remember now, but it was like, please, whenever you say a movie is like a roller coaster, tell me what you mean by that and whether or not it's a good thing. If you're being critic, well, wait, he said he wouldn't be critical anymore. So I guess it's not critical going to them and who's supporting them. And I want to talk about the current state of the MCU. So let's cover these things. I hope it's going to be fun before we go further. A special thank you to sponsor for this video. Better health, better health. Do we know already better health? Have they have they redeemed themselves? I've seen them pop up everywhere again. Even if they did, I'd be I still am very uncomfortable with the sponsorship for mental health. That just yeah, I watched a video the other day and it was for like a lawyer service. And I'm like, I I don't know if I could in my right mind and in good conscience promote a like a lawyer service or a legal counsel or like mental help. I'm like, I don't know anything about these services. I don't know if they're good or not. I don't require the need of mental help. Yeah, I think it's made even more awkward when you have like a full throated sort of like, no, it's good. It's good. And it's always like you're saying this because you know, it's good. Yeah, but they're also saying it as like a I know I'm being paid, but this one's good for me. It would have to be something that I use that I like that I then after that decide to seek a sponsorship for. Yeah, if I'm the one who sought out the spot, like if I did like I use like a manscape razor and I use it. And boys, manscape razor is really good. It cuts so clean and it's it's worth the price and it makes me look so good. Mwah, ladies love it. I would like to promote this product because I use it myself and I like it and I think people will want to to get one instead of, yeah, better help called me and there's some mental health service and they're going to give me money to tell people to seek out their mental health services. But trust me, I don't know if I can check it out. Yeah, like, how have you verified this? Have you used it like a razor? I think you have you gotten. That's the thing, right, with all these promotions, it has to be that it has to be that they used it because otherwise it would look awful if their integrity, right? So it has to be that he was in a low place and the better help got him out of it. You know, if he said that, if he was like, I legitimately was in a really bad place. I had something bad happened or my father died or something, this depression or whatever. And then I cinema died and I got depressed, but I didn't want to criticize it. So I went to help and, you know, then I'd be like, OK, that's something. I sort of bring an ad for better help with someone said, now I'm being perfectly honest. I've never been depressed or anxious. I don't have mental. They paid me so I'm promoting them. Simple as that. I've never been depressed on account of all this money. They're paying me. Oh, hey, that means their service works. If they pay them to promote the service and the money keeps them from depression, then I mean, better helps work him. It's doing its job. The whole the whole thing just seems off. Hey, let's talk about movies, me and movie guy. Anyway, our sponsor is a mental health service. Yeah, yeah, there's no link between because you don't need to be like a channel of any kind to say you should use this razor blade. You know, you should use this food delivery service. You know, those are things all people kind of use. Easy thing for me to remember a little, what just call me say, he won the sponsor. It's like, yeah, fuck, yeah, shop at your fucking place every week. No. A lot of people product makes sense to me, but like the idea of giving wholehearted recommendations for like services that are fundamentally beyond your field of expertise. I don't know. You know, yeah, I got to be able to vouch for it. I need to be able to vouch for it. And I mean, it's like filled with lonely people who are dealing with a lot mentally and the idea that you're like, well, I've been paid. So all of you, I'm going to sell my trust to you to send you over there. Hopefully gain me some bucks, gain them some bucks. And then, yeah, maybe you'll feel better, but either way, you're out your buddy just feels awkward. By the way, Little Rock Zoo, if you want to, if you want to call me up and yeah, you can you can contact me, right? So do it. Call me up, Little Rock Zoo. I'll promote the shit out of that zoo. What's the phrase? What's the what's the everybody's favorite animal at Little Rock Zoo? Who's the main? I don't actually know. I haven't I haven't been in a while and I need to, but it's kind of starting to get like cold. His winners, you know, starting to come in his fall. So yeah, the animals are getting lonely. Let's see, I don't know. I've always I that's a really good question. We I think we're lucky. And I don't think a lot of places have them, but we had we have at least one main wolf. And those are always neat. They have a really long legs. You've got penguins are pretty neat as long as they're actually swimming around and stuff. When they're just like standing, it's like that's neat. But, you know, you like to see them doing stuff generally. I'm really, I don't know. I kind of like a lot of different animals. I've always liked fish and aquariums. I'm always keen on. I really like the underwater stuff, like crabs and and like seabirds, things of that nature. Although fish swimming around because they can be so colorful in different shapes and sizes. And plus, there's often like otters there. And those are great. Those are great fun in the seals. They're really neat. Are you sure you're not sponsored? No, see, that's the it's just I just love animals are great and zoos are great. So go to the zoo. Support your local zoos, everyone. With massive adjustments for me making a film, becoming a father. And this year with the strikes that went up, in front of becoming a better help and help you when you're making a film. My life's gotten a lot more busy and making a film. And oh, yeah, I became a father. You know, it's funny when they when they listed without thinking about that. On my phone is but it's it's it's fun. It's fine to take a single meeting when it came to anything regarding a screenplay that I had written, which was very difficult for me in this integral part of my film career. So I imagine that the way that that whole partnership works is you need to start with some story about yourself and why you needed my services. So you do tell you that you have to give a personal experience or you have to show yourself using the product. But I don't really know. It's hard to do that with something like a therapy sponsor because like most therapy programs that minimum will have you for about, say, like four sessions. So like once a week, so you have to use it for a month just to do this out placement, which it's not impossible, but that's what he's done. It's just that you have to need it, you know, not just because I feel like if it's one of those things you don't need, if I don't need mental health services, if I don't need any kind of counseling or anything like that, then I don't know how like, how do you know it is like going to a doctor if you're well, like with how. How can you give broad, generalized advice on something that is so fundamentally personal because the reasons why you're going to be seeking our mental health services may end up being vastly different than someone else. You might be dealing with it for relatively mundane problems compared to somebody who's like very mentally ill. And I just I don't know everything about it just seems off. The idea of here is just like a broad sponsorship on a video that is completely unrelated in a field that I'm not familiar with really at all to recommend like mental health. It's it's the repercussions. It's the gravitas of like what can happen if that doesn't work out. We're dealing with people who are potentially suicidal, whose life has come to like essentially a standstill because of their, you know, their problems. So it is like if you end up recommending manscaped or something like that, you know, something that's not really that important. And it turns out actually this manscaped razor isn't I mean, it's fine, but it's not really all that good and it didn't really help. It's like, I guess that happens and it's not really your fault. Sometimes, you know, products just aren't always that great. But like it you don't you don't lose anything really. You're out of you're out of a little bit of change, I suppose, for buying the thing. But it's not like now I'm even more depressed. Now I have even less faith in the mental health. That's the worst case scenario that you have immense trust in the particular creator. They direct you to this. You spend money on it that you feel even worse afterward. That's just a big old combo of fuck. But I think it's I think it's the element of because I hear this from people some time when they say, you know, I'm really sad I'm depressed or whatever. And then I say, well, you should go and consult a, you know, you need to go see a doctor or medical help. And they're like, yeah, but I did and it didn't really work. So I don't do that anymore. And I'm like, well, shit. Now, I guess you'll just die sad then. I don't know. What are we doing? Like they're they're they're they're faith and their confidence in these fields has been eroded by bad experiences. Yeah, yeah. That's what if that was better help, you know? Yeah, well, as I think Tolbiske said it, right, that the the whole idea with these promotions is that you are selling your trust. That's the entire thing. They're trying to buy off you the sponsorships. And if there is any way to sound more authentic over time, those will be incorporated into the contract. So like, if there's a way to genuinely sound like you're selling this out of the goodness of your heart in the contract, that goes in a year or two, you know, however long. So when they begin with like the I was in a difficult place, it's like, was I in the contract? You have to say, was that a quote like that? They told you to say it makes it all like weird. And I mean, I've heard better help ads from multiple places and they all start the same and go about the same. It's always generally give you a yeah, yeah. Printer based on that is why all the great shadow legends, they have all the same thing, millions of players operated that if they were like, you know, we want to sell the pro professionally. So like you go talk to one of our guys and you're like, OK. So how are you feeling? I'm fine. And then they're like, OK, tell me about your childhood. They just do it. Like after like a half hour, they're like, do you feel better at all? Sure. I guess it was nice to reminisce about my child. Yeah, you know, I guess bigger back then. That's enough to count. So now I'll promote this. It's like, I don't know. Just in plus, if you're Chris Stuckman, if you're really a YouTuber of any decent size, you can be really picky and choosy with the kinds of sponsorships that you can do, especially if you're you know, all the time. And you can reach out to people all the time. The crazy thing is people who can get people to come your way. I know the rags and free are especially with along with me. I'm not sure how many people here are, but like there was a big controversy would better help back in the day. I thought that more people were aware of than I guess are because I would have thought that's why I brought that even up. Yeah, I would have thought that you'd stay away from better help as a sponsorship because of what happened back in the day with a lot of YouTubers. I've never heard of them before. They want what happened? The therapist didn't need qualifications to join. They could just join. Yeah, which is probably really fucking important. Yeah. That's one of those things where you're like, I would have thought that would have been illegal automatically. Like, it was like a process. Both my parents work in mental health charities and actually the legal requirements for becoming a therapist are staggeringly low. Well, this is why it was said like, surely they've not made that mistake now, like, surely things are better now. But like, I haven't looked into better help, nor would I. This is just one I would completely avoid. Turn to better help. Better help connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. You can have your therapy sessions as a phone call, as a video chat, or even via messaging, if you prefer that. Whatever is the most comfortable. Is it via or via? I mean, it depends on your accent. I think they're both. Did you know, did you know that's the Latin word for road? We are. I didn't know that, honestly. Yeah, there you go. So I learned something new today. Thank you, Ryan. You did it. Thanks. Better help. There we have a spoken angel. Better help. I'm glad you're reaching out for help during such a tough time. Could you tell me a little more about how else you've been feeling? You mentioned you don't feel motivated to do anything. So I'm wondering if you might also feeling tied a lot lately, selling a new job, being around all new people's. I read that was a really big cringe. Being around people is pretty fucking cringe. I should know. I'm a therapist. Sometimes our minds take a bit longer to adjust in that adjustment period. It's pretty normal for someone to experience changes in their mood. You got to wonder. Imagine the big new controversy for them is that the therapist, the AI. The AI of these days, yeah. Have you guys heard about shock me? There was a bunch of people who had a girlfriend's on the service that the owner like went to jail, so it shut down and none of them could access their girlfriends anymore. Oh, no, I can't access my girlfriend anymore because she was never real. I've not had that one, but I know there was one similar same story, load of AI girlfriends. And the woman that made it was like, this is really bad. I need to stop this. So she changed the service rules and they were like, you've just killed my girlfriend. Allowed all the original people to use it, but no new ones. I was literally saying you killed my girlfriend. Gonna be like, here, good movie. Over 30,000 therapists in their network, which gives you access to a wider range of expertise than maybe a thousand in your area. And if the therapist you're first matched with doesn't feel like the right fit, which can be common in starting therapy, you can easily switch to a new therapist at no additional cost without stressing about insurance. Who's in your network or that seems strange to say you can switch to a new therapist at no additional cost as if the therapist that you have is so like, you can just change them. Yeah, like, I don't like this therapist. Well, maybe you need to not like your therapist. Maybe you should potentially be apprehentious or confrontational with your therapist. Maybe that's exactly what you need. Four therapists will over right now, especially in the West, is this conflict of should they be in any way like giving affirmation or should they not be challenging as part of the experience. And there's some people that call abuse on their therapist if they try to tell them like, you might be wrong about this. They'd be like, no, I'm here to spill my feelings of for you to tell me that I'm right and that my life is odd. No, but that's not how that works though. It's not gonna make you any better. They're like, you're saying I'm bad. You're saying I need help. Are you a racist? It's like, what? God. For anything like that, over four million people have used better help to start living a healthier, happier life. How many are still using it? How many? I'm thinking like that. Yeah, let's say. Doesn't that sound like, okay, especially after delving into so much Robocop in the past like month. This sounds like an OCP ad. You're gonna live a better, happier life. It kinda does, yeah. If you don't like your therapist, you get a new one, yeah. I buy that for a dollar. You just need to crank it up a little bit and be like, yeah, you're a therapist. If you pay them a little extra, they'll come and give you a fucking handjob or something and you'll be like, oh, wow, that's a great service, 100%. I'll pay for, yeah, tell me more. Check out the link in my description below, betterhelp.com. Robo wants an Oreo. What are they called worse help? Oh. Chris Stuckman. That not only supports this channel, but it will also give you 10. Do audible next time, Chris, better. 10% off your first month with better help. That's better. There's something about like getting coupons for therapy. It's weird. It's just kind of dystopian, you know. It's weird, isn't it? It's all weird. I don't like it. 10% off your next therapy session. I was like, I don't know. It's weird. It's really weird. For help.com slash Chris Stuckman. That link is in the description below. Thank you so much to better help sponsoring this video. I saw it. You didn't say the thing of the video wouldn't have been possible without better help. This video wouldn't have been possible without better help. Stuckman eyes. It took my camera's hostage. And if I didn't do this, I couldn't do this video. All right. Let's show them the marbles, Chris. Let's do it. Yeah. There's a lot of people talking about this movie right now. I'm not really going to talk about it in depth. No. Not really. That's probably the problem. That's probably the problem. It seems that no one really gives a shit. Actually, Chris. That it's a short movie. It's a fairly breezy watch. I liked Amman Vellani quite a bit as Miss Marvel. I thought she was fantastic. All of the most boring takes. Yeah. All of the most boring. You liked it quite a lot. She seems nice. That's part of his name. That's part of his take. It's a short movie. Yeah. It's a short movie. Because these are the common take. Wow, it's short for a Marvel movie. It's also a very light movie. It's not very weighty or dramatic. And Amman Vellani is entertaining. Like, those are the most common perspectives that get given out when people don't want to be more specific about anything that they like or dislike about the film. Also, if we're going to write notes that you're going to read while you're on camera, like, stick it near your camera, at least. He's looking for over time. So how can you keep talking to the writer? Yeah, you just made me realize. How is he needing bullet points to remember the film was short and I liked Amman Vellani? Hey, look, I'm not going to hold it against him that he's, like, got notes, OK? That's not the point. It's that you can't remember your basic take for the film. For this, you shouldn't need notes for this. There are some things you need notes for. This isn't one of them. This is I'm not criticizing for having notes and criticizing for having to go to his notes to remember what he thought about the bubbles. Is that indicative of the fact that he has no idea what he thinks of the bubbles? It's not an interesting thing. It's kind of odd, you know, it makes you think there's so much subtext in this frame of him having to read his notes to remember what he thinks about this movie. I just don't know why he has a lot of right of his camera and not just like below it or above it. So it doesn't it's not as obvious or you need or make it a part of the video where you you have a clipboard and you have notes and then you like you do the little thing where you like in you you sort of like flicker. Yeah, are you you go through your notes and you turn over the page on the clipboard and put it behind and and you just go through them. And that's part of your thing is like, I've got all my notes here that I took down for the video. Let's go through them and that can be what part of your style you and your clipboard like clipboard of my clipboard of thoughts. Me and my clipboard. Some people in China have said he looks really defeated and sounds really defeated. I mean, obviously, if cinema is kill, then he is deflated. That's how that works. I mean, he sounds like that every movie video I've seen. And I was going to say that. But I was like, is that he is also talking about the marvels and he's not allowed to say anything critical about it. So I think that's why you should hear anybody. You should hear how he ends as a review of the movie. Although I don't really know what the movie is about. I don't I guess I don't know. It was about team work for not knowing what it's about. I think the first time I spoke with Fringham to see in it, I said, I don't know what the film is about. It was only after thinking about it for a while that it was like, I guess team work is the way to make the dream work. I don't know. I think work is good. Yeah, girls get it done. Yeah, that's pretty negative, Chris. Like, you better be careful there. Not the films about bridges. That's what I'll say. What I really want to talk about is what if what if near the cost of was like, hey, you know, Chris, that really hurt. I really hurt. Yeah. And I'm a filmmaker. You probably don't know until you come onto my set how much we work real hard. Would you take it back? Take take down your video, edited. And say that you knew what it was about. It was about love and freedom. Don't really consider a debate anymore. It's really just a discussion point that I'm seeing a lot. And it was jump started when Martin Scorsese said that Marvel movies and superhero films weren't really cinema. And which, well, why? I don't think he said weren't really cinema. I think he said they weren't cinema. OK. Yeah. This is what it was. The one you saw your patron saint's words. Like I said, I think it was in 200 or 150, I don't know. But we had a big discussion about how much this is an annoying discussion. When you say a film isn't cinema, that means something different for every single fucking person on this planet. It's so complicated. Are easier to just say, well, they're all films. Just say it's bad. Just say they're bad. Yeah. They're bad films. I mean, a lot of the bar, that's the thing. When you be like, I don't know, fucking Iron Man, that ain't cinema. Who's like, is it not? And you're like, no, because you wouldn't say that about Rami's Spider-Man films, or Superman. The fact is, even if he thought that was true, you wouldn't say it because he knows he's not allowed. That's right. That is an unacceptable take. More theme park rides and you go. Mala, you can't say that they're bad because that's negative. Just say that they aren't art. OK, yeah, that gets. Oh, you just provide me just a category. Yeah, that's like the whole. Yeah, everyone's allowed any interpretation of anything, but you have bad media comprehension. You have bad media literacy. Like, oh, didn't you just say the thing you said you wouldn't say? And it's like, no, OK. Marvel movies and superhero films weren't really cinema and that they were more theme park rides. And you go to those movies to have fun and that's great. He wasn't really saying that that's wrong. He was just saying that it has its place. And then I mean, when you're saying you're it is lesser. It is lesser. Yeah, that's what I might not even be odd at all. Today, EFAP learns about subjectivity. Today, subjectivity learns about EFAP. That's what's happening. Yeah. Yeah, subjectivity better fucking prepare the asshole because we're here. We're here. Tommy was just saying that it has its place and that it should as being not cinema, the entirety of why we. Do you see how it's walking around mines because they know what the application is and work for him. All right, Martin Scorsese is like, you can tweak it and then get to a much more reasonable position that is like, yeah, they're just slot their crap movies and they're bad for the industry rather than, well, they're not even. They're not even cinema. Well, yeah, you can soften what he said by completely changing it into something that he didn't say. Yeah, you can do that. Like, guys, you don't have to run what you don't have to carry all this water for your patron fucking saint. Martin Scorsese said something that was dumb and wrong and that's OK, because he's human and we all do that, except me. You're not human. Yeah, you're dumb. That's right. Guess you made a mistake just now. You fool. That's right. No, not me. That's a paradox, Rags. You need to answer people. You need to improve. Dogs are better people than people. No, you that was a paradox. You need to disintegrate. Oh, no. Desintegrate. Rags go. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get to go fight the fart files, Lester. If you're a robot, you're exploited. If you're organic, you turn into a black hole. My God, it's already happening in chat. But it is right. The MCU is entertainment. It's not art. Fucking hell. All right, OK. Jesus. OK, I don't find it entertaining, though, because it's a piece of shit. No, I don't want to I don't want to retable. Like, I don't want to have to keep having this conversation about, like, the definitions of art, like every single time it comes up, right? You just have to accept the stats is that Marvel movies are art. They're bad. We just think they're bad. I'm just saying there's no art in the MCU. No art. It's only entertainment. Yeah, what are you looking at for the arbitrary and this is the damage that gets done. The discourse is fucked. Well, it just becomes way more confusing, because once we start like arbitrarily drawing all of these lines for these terms, it just starts to get really confusing when I think it's just waiting to say what's all. They're all movies. They are categorically definition. They're movies. It's just we like how we feel about them, whether we think they're good or bad. Do you think when Ebert said video games are not art that he had loads of fans that were like, he is right, though. It's due with video games. You interact with it, which isn't art. That's more of a like that's it. I imagine people are like, oh, yeah, Mario jumping around. Oh, yeah, that's not art, which again, that's already an insane perspective because there is artistry in the animation and the art in the background and the music. And then, of course, the artistry of game design. But then once you have your like art games, you know, once you start to get those examples, then it begins completely deteriorate. But you shouldn't even need you shouldn't even need like buyer shock to to the Super Mario World is art. It's obviously art. It is I don't care if they consider it or not. I enjoy playing them. I care because it's to do with legitimacy and like respecting the industry and the fucking art form. It's fucked up to be like a video games of those cute little things babies play with. Like what the fuck legitimate art form. It's yeah, it's so funny, too, because film went through that film wasn't taken seriously for anything when it's the new thing. And it takes a while for people to essentially accept it as a form of artistic oppression. Yeah, I think when Aldous Huxley first went to the cinema in the 1930s, I think it was and he was absolutely horrified by it. And he said, effectively said, this is not art. It's spectacle, but it is not art. And it's just a bunch of disembodied entertainers gesticulating flatly on the screen, making gramophone like noises as they do so. That was the early curmudgeonly position about cinema. I think cinema has disproven that sense. Like cinema has proven that there is no juxtaposition between entertainment and art. The problem with a lot of modern films is that it's kind of trying to prove him right, retroactive. It's trying to prove him right. Challenge accepted. We are in that awkward position, yeah. And that's why I feel like a lot of people think it's intuitive to describe, like even, you know, which is more reasonable, by the way, modern MCU is like, well, that's not art at that point. It's like, no, is, it's just really bad. There's something you can say. Don't worry about it. I'd be even comfortable. I mean, I often call it soulless commerce, which is what I believe it is a lot. It is soulless. I will, even though that's even more hyper subjective, I would totally buy saying it's soulless. I'd be like, I'm pretty clear on what you mean by that. But saying it's not, it's like, what the fuck? When it is the product of many different artistic disciplines coming together to create a form of artistic expression, you know? Well, yeah, that's part of the problem, right? Because Chris would probably say, anyone who's saying it's not art is totally wrong because he would never want all the people who work their asses off behind the scenes, behind every film, like to tell them what they're doing is an art. But so, which means that he then makes it more confusing because they're all art, but they're not all cinema. So cinema is not a definition that would be attached to art itself and other kind of like the difference between like the definition of literature compared to fiction or whatever. This is what we encountered the last time we talked about this is like someone stands up in the crowd and says, these are the definitions. And then someone next to him is like, whoa, no, no, no, no. It's almost that it's actually this. And then someone else goes, no, it's this. And then you look back at the quote and you're like, but that's clearly not what he meant. And then someone else goes, yeah, because he meant this. And then first person's like, that's not what he meant. Well, that's kind of the nature of definitions is that they're attached to a bunch of different concepts that people have and they're given different priority depending on who that person is. Yeah. The entirety of why we go to the movie theaters. And I very much so agree with him. There's a really- As if you can tell me- You will point your way in a different manner. Well, it's like we'll say the purpose of art or why we watch art and things of that nature, but they say it in this very, they don't say it in a broad way. They mean it in a very specific kind of way. I don't like it when people speak for the reasons why I do things, especially when the reason I go to one movie is completely different. Oftentimes the exact opposite of why I go to see a different movie. Really good video on some of these topics I'm about to get into from Patrick Willems. It's on his channel. It's kind of like who's- My boy, Patrick. Why plot holes don't matter. I'm gonna link that in the description below. He makes really great videos. It's like 90 minutes long. It's a feature film. What does it mean if you say- It's amazing. Well, actually now I'm curious about this. What does it mean to say that Patrick Willems makes really great videos that include critiques of specific films when you say that you don't have a, you're not gonna say anything negative about any given film. I'm not gonna say anything negative about any given film, but I do like this guy's videos, which include videos that are critical of very specific work. So you know what I mean? Like how many steps removed, are you, from his true opinion on anything? Shout out to JJ Abrams. He really did. He went hard on him. He was pissed. I don't get it. How Patrick Willems makes such shit videos, but it seems like so many people will just be like promoting him. Yeah, he's just so good. He's just so insightful and smart. And he's like, have you listened to him speak? It's fuck, he's a moron. You've seen all of his worst videos though. You haven't seen any, like how many of you watch drags of more than two? I've watched one, two. Let's say that I watched those two still. Those were so bad. I know those are bad, but you know, if he has a video of like discussing the directorial styles of bad boys versus John Wick, there's probably nothing wrong with that video, you know? I don't know. But when he's talking about like how plot holes don't matter and that writing is just fuckery, it's like, well, yeah, there's going to be a lot of problems with that. Right. It's a great video that can educate you on a lot of these topics. I'm going to discuss if you don't know anything about them. As far as movies in the MCU after Endgame, I've enjoyed Shang-Chi quite a bit. I liked Spider-Man and The Holy Home quite a bit. I liked Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Boring. Black Panther 2 was fine. Ooh, there you go. That's a slight bit of spice. Fine. Black Panther 2 was fine. Because they can't be bad. They can't be bad. They can't be shit. He said he's going to be negative. I'm just keeping it over. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Yeah, it was fine. I can't say it bad because I'm like, oh, it's just interesting. Because the first three ones are the boring choices that everybody picks for the decent phase four movies, which, I mean, you know, let's be real, all right. How many people even remember what happened in Shang-Chi? OK, but the fact that he would say that Wakanda Forever is fine. That is actually interesting. Mm-hmm. But honestly, it's been downhill. I have come. Oh, my God. Wait a minute, Chris, stop. What are you doing? I'm healing. Oh, no. Off the train of watching the shows. I haven't seen Secret Invasion. I didn't see Gloky Season 2. I didn't see Miss Marvel. And I really do think the major issue, at least for me, is the Disney Plus stuff. I just couldn't keep up. Oh, that's boring. That's boring. Couldn't keep up with it. Yeah, I don't know. So we've had a few episodes before we cover, like, all the crazy reasons for why it's not working, that everyone resists saying it's badly executed. Like, everyone has to find a new... It's like, oversaturation, the failure to connect things, taking too long to have a focused villain. There's no hero team that's been made yet. There's not enough development. There's not enough clashing. They just come up with all kinds of different things and it's like, it's just bad, man. Yeah, because it's all trash. Never because of the writing, never because of the characters. If they were great, you would carve out the time in your day to make sure that you're watching all of these shows. You would, if it was great. Especially considering that your job is this. Well, and it's funny, too, because it's like, it's crazy to me to think, I want to talk about this topic. It's like, oh, I've fallen off because it's too much to figure out, and this and that. Without talking about, like, yeah, no, it's all piss, though. Like, it's all shit. It's funny, too, because it's like, I gotta do all this homework. And it's like, watching Secret Invasion makes the Marvels so much worse. Like, it makes no fucking sense at all. Oh, yeah. Like, the fucking, I kept Fury in there. It's like another person from Secret Invasion. Yeah, he's a different person, but he's still not Fury. Still not Fury, but he's a different wrong Fury. It's weird as shit. It was what you have. It has an interesting side effect because a lot of people have said, well, you know, because I've not watched all this stuff, I never watched the movie because I can't catch up on all these things. But if you actually watch them, you realize you don't need to see these to watch the movies. They change nothing. And actually, it's worse, but if you haven't seen them, you still have that impression. So they've kind of shot themselves on the face both ways. It doesn't work. I don't know what that's saying was, but you know. It's the worst of both worlds. It's the worst of both worlds with the MCU continuity because the whole point of the MCU was the selling point is, isn't it really cool that we can essentially tell a long-form story in big-budget cinematic form and you have your continuity, you're building up a world that you couldn't build up in one movie. Isn't that cool? But it's the worst of that where the films are often disconnected, but the ways in which they connect is contradictory. They deal damage to the subsequent stories. So it's kind of fascinating how like they've lost the benefit of the MCU while retaining all of the detriment which is it's way harder to maintain continuity. And they don't, they just don't. No. Up to know all of this. And for a minute, they were sort of like making it so you didn't have to watch the shows to get into the movies. But the Marvels is the first big MCU film where you kind of did. No. No. I'm gonna give him a bit of a break on this in the sense that it sounds like he's talking from a sense of as far as he's aware which I think any normal person if you were told a couple of true things such as, yeah, Carol, you know, actually, no, she's the only one that I guess would be irrelevant. She's not in Secret Invasion when she should be. But Nick Fury, it's like, yeah, and you know, Secret Invasion is all about the Skrulls and there's a piece and reconciliation tour in this film about the Skrulls with the, you know, the state of them. So it's like, it would make sense that Secret Invasion would connect to this. Then you got Miss Marvel. It's like the introduction of Miss Marvel. So of course it would make sense that you'd need to see that to see why she's here, what she's doing. And then of course Monica. It's like, where does she come from? She comes from WandaVision. So I could see anyone being like, well, yeah, this is the first one where I felt that I needed to see other stuff. And it's like, if only you did, so you'd know how much you didn't need to see them at all. Well, they sit in that weird in between stage, but like, you can't ignore them, but there is not enough in any of them to be worth watching. So you do need a little bit of foreknowledge from say, Miss Marvel, because the Marvels does not introduce her character across like eight episodes worth of time. And there are things you miss, like the links between the magic bangles and the Nord dimension, which is also somehow the quantum, whatever the fuck. And then with the Monica Rambeau as well, if you haven't seen WandaVision, you have no idea who this person is, except that you still don't really have any idea who she is, because she's not really a character, but you do kind of have to be aware of the shows, even if you don't have to watch the shows. And that's kind of the worst of both worlds at that point. Well, and that's why someone said like, so you're saying he's still wrong. It's like, yes, I am saying he's wrong, but I can understand how he got here. It would be intuitive, I think, to think, oh, this film would have been better had I seen Miss Marvel on Secret Invasion. I was like, no, it wouldn't, but yeah. Like if you didn't see WandaVision, you might be curious about things that are happening with Monica Rambeau. And if you didn't see Miss Marvel, you need some catching up about her. You'd be confused who the fuck is this. Well, the funny thing is we all were like, we missed a whole fucking movie with Monica. That was it. It's like, did she see her in space and she's mastered her powers to the point where she could even fly? You're like, when the fuck did any of that happen? What the hell? You're like, oh, well, I don't know. Shit, that's what's happened now. The film tries its best to do that. And if you didn't see Secret Invasion, apparently that actually will help you. No, it will make it worse. Yeah, it makes it worse. There's more writing problems. I mean, there's more to criticize, unfortunately. Chris. I mean, to be fast about it, it would be an under-exaggeration to say that the Marvels like annihilates what sense Secret Invasion had left. Like the whole point of Secret Invasion rests on a failure on Nick Fury and Captain Marvel's part of putting the Skrulls in a place where they could live. And then this film immediately just drops them into Asgard. It's so funny. Yeah, that's right. You can't just do that. Like that completely undermines all of Secret Invasion. It's like, yeah, but we didn't know that because we had no idea what Secret Invasion even was. You're like, yeah, okay, fine. Because I didn't, and I watched and read some other reviews of people saying that the Nick Fury in this movie is nothing like the one that was just in Secret Invasion that it's almost insulting. Depends on what you mean. I guess some people like Secret Invasion. Sure. I liked him in The Avengers. I mean, I even liked him in Winter Soldier. Like, I'm historically critical of that film, but his, to portray him as like reacting to enemies trying to kill him with technology and abilities that you might assume he has with his role, compared to having him cower so that the teenage girl can save him. You know what I mean? I have a preference for one of those, even if... Yeah, it's weird seeing him, even though there's a lot of issues with the scene, but the scene of him in the truck, like defending himself against the Winter Soldier, we're like, oh, this is just, this is clearly a different person from the useless clown loser who's in the Marvels. This is clearly different, completely different character. He is regressed substantially. Right. So it's like he's a clown loser in Captain Marvel, but the benefit of the doubt you could give to it is, yeah, but this was a while ago, which even then, you know, whatever, but it's like they've carried that over, even though there was an interim period where he was a totally different person. It's kind of fascinating. I was gonna say, the way that he just said that was, it sounds like there are fans of Secret Invasion that were upset with Fury's portrayal in the Marvels. Are there fans of Secret Invasion, though? Three? Probably two. Two or three? Maybe, maybe. And so I guess their argument would be the Secret Invasion, and forgive me for saying this, Secret Invasion took Fury seriously and it brought him down, you know? It made everything very serious and he had to go through a lot, have an anxiety attacks and struggle into be the man he once was and, you know, the season is about him reclaiming the role of Nick Fury and get him back up there. And then in this movie, it's barely even addressed. It's ridiculous. You know, I think that's what their argument would maybe be. I don't know. I didn't have that experience because I didn't watch that show, so maybe that actually makes the movie better. I don't know. The point is, I stopped caring about this continuity because there was just too much of it. It had to, like, become my entire life if I wanted to keep up with this fucking. That's not true. You just don't like it now. Did people ever say this about Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon? No. Just say it, it seems weird. It seems like they, oh, is it maybe you wouldn't make this argument? Better quality? I mean, I don't know. I'm just guessing. I'm just guessing. If it was good, you wouldn't consider it homework or a chore. You would just be excited to watch it. Yep. Isn't it? Yeah, it just doesn't come into the equation, but I just don't think that he would, like, even if he thought it, he's never gonna say, it's just so crap, guys. This becomes so fucking crap. Meanwhile, I don't know if you guys have watched any of his videos, but Jeremy Johns, when he put out, his Marvels video is funny. It opens with him basically saying, like, we've finally reached the point where they definitely made this with AI. It's just so awful. He comes across as so much more of a real human being. It's so neat. Yeah, yeah, I like it. I kind of like him. He seems very earnest and real. My entire life, if I wanted to keep up with this fucking story that's happening in these movies. Oh my God. Why would you put it that way, unless it were bad? Like, you remember, like, why would, it's so weird. Like, if it were all awesome, you did it back in the day was phase three, like, easy and not time consuming to get through everything, I guess. It was just so good, I wonder. We're talking about one hour a week. I mean, come on. This is what I mean. It doesn't make any sense at all. It's like, I can't spare my entire life to keep up with the MCU. When it's like, you can blast it all out pretty quick. It's just that no one wants to watch this shit. That's what's going on. Yeah. I think you could probably make an argument that there are too many threads. It's still a poor execution argument, but you can make the argument that there are too many dangling threads on at the same time. And the amount of cost you have to sink in to catch up on something you might have missed is now so much greater, which prohibits you or makes it less likely that you will actually bother to catch up on it, which then has a detrimental impact on everything that follows. If you compare the average number of releases a year from even phase three to now, it's gone from something like an average of eight every year to 15 a year, if you're including all of the Disney plus shows as well, or 15 across two years, as I can't remember right at the math at one point. But the point being that there are a huge number of various different stories going on. They are all crap, but if you do want to be on top of absolutely everything, you are going to have to sink more time into doing it. Obviously, if it were good, you would be motivated to do that. That's the principle criticism. There is still more to do. We kind of do it already. It was supposed to be a revolutionary new idea of you watch your TV and your films and you play your games and you read your books and somewhat, as everyone's doing it, listening to music. But it's like, what if several of those things were actually all parts of the similar story that all lead somewhere and that some of them you can check out and it'll make something better. But if you missed it, that thing it would have made better is still really good. That was the dream. It came crashing down because it wasn't just a couple of parts that went bad, it was basically the entire thing. The MC was supposed to be, and I'm sure they envisioned this back in fucking 2018. They were like, we're going to expand to TV shows and Disney plus. They're going to be amazing and they're going to filter back into the films and it's going to be the most profitable thing in the history of everything. This is going to be the first time anyone's ever done something like this. Like every movie and TV show, they're going to feed into each other back and forth and back and forth and it's going to make all the money. And it might have been able to do that if they were really good. Yeah. Maybe you could have done that if they were okay. But they weren't. They were not okay. I'd give leniency to a lot of people, but if this is your job and it's something you intend to talk about, then it's one hour a week and he would have kept up with them as they were coming out. But he's the one that decided, I know I'm going to skip this. And the real question is, why did he decide to skip it at the time? Yeah. Yeah. Like Miss Marvel's about to come out and he's like, I can't fucking spare my life to watch that. Like, whoa, Chris, what's going on? Like what do you- Sounds pretty negative, Chris. Yeah. Watching better watches. Someone might be listening. The way you watch and come up with movies. In fact, I love watching great ones. Obviously. I've had great ones. I love watching great ones. Oh, that's interesting. Great ones. What do you mean, Chris? What do you mean? Dancing around to prevent being blacklisted from Hollywood. What do you mean? It's not great. And he looks over to the side and you could hear some guy be like, mm-hmm. Did you say that into the microphone? Watching great ones. Obviously, I've had Daredevil behind me for like every video for a couple of years now. I love good comic book movies. Are these cinema? Do they count? Are they cinema? I've always been very inspired by them. Sam Raimi's first two Spider-Man movies are- Oh, not the third one. Yeah, it's interesting. It's a shame, though. What do you mean? It's the thing. I'm not going to be negative. I love one and two. It's like, what about three? I love one and two. No, boy, one and two are so great. You're one and two on good movies, man. Like the black hole you have to detect it by what's around it. Influential movies I've ever seen and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy is fucking amazing. I'm sitting here wearing a Dragon Ball shirt. That's a manga, also known as a comic book. I mean, I don't have to succumb. Wait, wait, sorry. What was that? I don't know what that was. Comic book doesn't mean superhero, man. Yeah, but shut up. I just felt really stilted. I don't know what that was. Yeah, it was just a Dragon Ball shirt. It was matching for a bunch of different things. It was like, well, I like Dragon Ball. Wait, Dragon Ball's not like superhero, technically. Well, it's a manga and that's, you know- So it could still be cinema. It could still be cinema, OK? It could still be cinema. Do you think that was accounted to people saying the comic book industry is dead but manga isn't? He's like, no, actually, they're the same thing. I don't know. I think it might just be as simple as what I first thought, which is that he erroneously conflates comic books with superheroes when that's not the case. It's not the case at all. It's a medium. He's just trying to establish his nerd credentials. It's an appeal to his own authority, effectively. And look, I love all of this stuff. I love it when it's good. I just don't like it when it's not good. I just don't like it when it's not the thing that is good. Sit here and pretend like I'm above any of this. I get excited about all of this. Well, I mean, I'd say, OK. Wait, so is he trying to counter the idea that like I'm not saying that Marvel films have gone so bad that they're not interesting enough to me anymore? I'm interested in all kinds of crap, like manga. I think the super, super charitable one is I'm not a snob. I'm not some pretentious guy who thinks of these comic book, you know, superhero movies. I like superheroes. I like I like I like anime. I like all that stuff. All right, please. But I also get excited about watching a three and a half hour Martin Scorsese film in theaters, too. Why do you say that? Like that's not he's pretty mainstream, like Scorsese films. I guess it's kind of funny that there's almost the implication of, yeah, it would be weird if somebody like Dragon Ball Z and Martin Scorsese movies. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I take issue with this. It would be like if I said like, oh, yeah, I like my Iron Man blast and stuff around, but I also watched Tarantino. You're like, yeah, good. Yeah, that's that's pretty normal. It's not like Scorsese is explicitly made films that no one sees that they're all in like festivals or something. No, I would want Scorsese is this films are generally successful. It's like, yes, I do throw on a mission impossible every once in a while, but I also check out Oppenheimer. Whoa, you crazy. A lot of people watched Oppenheimer. OK, you're all right. A lot of people aren't like that. I bumped into a guy the other day at a restaurant was wearing a Halloween 1978 hoodie. And I was like, oh, man, did you know that tonight they're showing that movie in a theater nearby? And he was like, oh, that's cool. Leave me alone, you weirdo. And I was like, why is there so many reasons why someone might not go to a movie theater? There's countless. I think RLM RLM talk about it regularly. They fucking hate going to theaters because of the people. Some people are on their phones or that. Oh, God, people talking in theaters needs to be outlawed. Like shut the fuck up. This isn't a social experience, but it is. But it's not. Yeah, shut up. You're ruining it to hip. He said because I can just, you know, watch it all at home. Yeah, you can watch it in your own home theater if you have it set up. You can black out all the lights. You can have your own snacks. You can pause to go to toilet whenever you want. It's kind of amazing, right? There's a couple of reasons I don't like it. Yeah, it's way easier to get away with masturbating. Let me think about the direction he's going to take this, because I imagine he'll be talking about that he doesn't want to lose the value of seeing these works on a big screen with the big sound. There is something sacred about that. I can feel that's right. Yes. And that needs to be preserved. And it's it might die. And that's going to make me real sad because I grew up watching movies in the theater. And that was a really formative experience for me. I don't want to retain the cinema. I want to retain the theater. That would be my guess as to the direction that he's taken this, which I got to say, I'm already like, I feel like that's a less interesting conversation than like the nature of the industry itself in terms of the movies that are being made and whether or not they're successful or not anymore and what trends are going to emerge because of it. It was a pretty strange argument to follow on from someone who presumably agrees with Martin Scorsese that Marvel films are more like, I don't know, entertaining experiences than they are works of art. If the reason you want to go to the cinema is for the entertaining experience of going to the cinema more than the work of art that you're going to watch. And the thing is, you got to be super duper, duper charitable to him. What would be like, well, the experience of watching some amazing film, I could watch it at home, sure, but it's not the same experience of watching it on the big screen with the big sound. Oh, theaters, when there's like no hindering effects can be fucking amazing. There's no denying it. Yeah, all the time in the theater was really great when nobody was talking, which is that one, unfortunately. Well, and to be fair, there are some films that benefit from the audience getting a bit noisy at certain points, right? We probably all agree that when Cap picks up that hammer, you kind of want to hear some people celebrate and clap and stuff. That's the first time in a German cinema that I heard people go like, ooh, it was like because they're fucking silent here in Germany because there's no sounds. But that one, it's like, oh, that was an experience. Yeah, what's being highlighted is just that there are plenty of valid reasons that one would not want to go to the theater. That's all. Oh, absolutely. And that is the mentality of a lot of people is that it's just easier to watch things at home. And that's why movie theaters are struggling. That's why physical media is struggling. I could do a whole video on. Well, wait, wait, wait, wait. Physical media is struggling. You can't put those next to each other. Yeah, that's a pivoted, like a different conversation because physical media is a home experience. Fundamentally, so it's actually completely a realm. Now you want to go for streaming, presumably. But even then, yeah, you know, there's there's a lot of arguments to be made about. I mean, certainly in our circles, right? Like streaming, we're all very aware and it needs to be spread further that streaming does not mean fucking anything in terms of keeping the content. So no, it's really not. Yeah, how best buy is not going to be offering physical media anymore after this holiday season? In fact, I might. So that sucks. But have they given like a reason? Because if it literally is nobody's buying it, it's like, well. Well, yeah, the same thing. What are they meant to do about that? Yeah, well, you can't blame them for that at that point. That's just a market that's gone at that point. Well, wasn't it always considered like a loss leader? They got you into the store by that section, but then you bought other things because I know that we're going way back. Woolworth used to do that with music CDs. Right. They specifically lost money, but it got people in. Well, because the thing is as well, a lot of the physical copies of stuff I'm buying are not typically in stores. They're more so like on Amazon warehouses of like, you know, right? Because they're classic movies that I want in 4K. They're not. I'm not looking to buy Mission Impossible Dead reckoning on 4K. I'm just not sorry. No, one of my one of my tropic funders and my. Why not? Oh, we have an episode all about it for you. Boy, wow. A whole episode. Yeah. Search EFAP Mission Impossible Dead reckoning. If you want to know more also. Hi, Gary. Oh, hello there. Hi. I suck. Oh, hi. Hello. I was talking to who. I can guess. Wait, it wasn't good. No, I'm jumping the gun. Sorry, you go ahead. Fucking terrible. I show that. Oh, 10. It was good. Sorry to break your rhythm. Let me know where I can link in to watch this too. OK, just quickly. Tenant's fine. Catherine takes fine. It can't get out of its own way. It's a giant allegory. The whole thing's about the message. It's freaking pretty bad. It's pretty bad. The latest link in the thing. I did think they'd at least hold off for three episodes. No, partly they can't even do that. They didn't hold off for three minutes in the episode. So it's a giant. I mean, just to come out and say it, it's a giant trans allegory. That's all it is. All right. Well, I'll be checking out I think tomorrow. So I assume we'll talk about it on real BBC and stuff. What you're going to be the most mad about is is what I'm the most mad about is they undo the Dr. Don for this. Oh, oh, I guess that was a worry, right? Yeah, the moment she reappeared, you knew they had to, but you can't bring her into the story unless you do that. Well, it's like when they fucking resurrect Anakin or that they resurrect Palpatine, it's like I'll do that without fucking up that whole payoff. Yeah, to catch you up, we're listening to Chris Duckman talk about the future of film, how it's falling apart. And he's currently talking about theaters and physical media, though it's a little odd because he started it with like an anecdote about how he's upset that a friend of his or someone he met anyway, that isn't going to the theater for reasons of it being easier to stay at home. And we were talking about how that's like, I mean, normal. A lot of people have a set up at home, not necessarily better in every way, just in a lot of ways that come up for theaters can be annoying. And then physical media is a different thing altogether that what would stimulate physical media being bought would be, I imagine, new films that are really good that people want to own personally. Then, of course, you have streaming offering some of these things in a way that might convince the average consumer that they have those things in their library permanently when they don't actually. Um, so I guess we'll just see where he goes with it. After let me know if this is a holiday season. In fact, I'm let me know if this is that is that echo. It is. Yes, I can only bear to stand, Chris, one time. No more, no more, please. I beg of you, no more. I'll just mute while it's on. So. All right. It's holiday season holiday season. In fact, I'm mute. You got to be really, really quick on the draw if you're going to strategy. Can you just turn down the can you use a headset or? I am using a headset, but I'm on my road one, so it doesn't separate them. There's a way to do this. Let me jump back out. I'll keep watching. OK. All right. Okie-dokie. I'm going to mute me for now. All right, gotcha. Mike, do a video on that. I had a feeling I had a feeling that's going to happen. But I didn't see the mute thing pop up at this point. It's that you can't hear him, but you can hear Chris. We've made it worse. Switch them. We want to hear you and not Chris. Guessing it's not fixed is not my sample. I'm meeting my sound board, so go ahead, because it'll all be muted. OK, OK, bring it. Any media anymore after. No, no, maybe now this holiday season holiday season. No, Mike, no. Yeah, if you're using the roadcaster, you'll have your mic, but there's also you must be going back to the computer. That'll do it. Yeah. All right, Chris, take it holiday season. In fact, I might do a video on that. If I sound elitist in any way by saying you got to go to the theater, you got to support theater, I understand that because when I was a kid, I could only see like one or two movies and theaters a month. And I would always go on the five dollar discount day and take advantage of any coupons I ever had. And I mean, I know when I was growing up, we used to have a dollar theater nearby where you could legitimately go in and get for a dollar, a movie ticket. However, if there was like three or more of you, it would be less than a dollar per person to see the movie. So you could walk in with like three bucks and the four for you and three friends could just go in with tickets and see movies. Those are the days, at least the absolute least you could expect to be paying over here is like 15 bucks. And yeah, it's like 10, 12 around here. It's it then, you know, if you average it out, it's more like you probably paying like 20 bucks. Maybe depending on a movie. Yeah, going in getting something like a drink or popcorn or something. I'm not talking about getting the popcorn and stuff like that. Yeah, just to take it. Yeah, if I want to go, if I go grab a ticket and I like to get the nice seats that recline because those movies are seven hours long these days. I want to be comfortable. That's extra. That's like the premium ticket, the premium seats. Like they don't all recline. So you have to pay that extra as well. The food is really expensive over here. Oh, that's like another 12 bucks on top. A rule with my family is we never buy anything from there, except the ticket. That was like a. You eat before you go or you. Yeah. Also really love the popcorn from the cinema. The fun memory that I had was that it was a Sainsbury's right next to which is essentially just like a Walmart right next to a cinema. And it was always baffling to me as a kid because I was just like, doesn't everyone just go there to buy this stuff and then go to the cinema? Like it's way cheaper. And it was like, well, yeah, you know, a lot of people do. But you've got to be careful. You've got to hide all your stuff. That's what my family was like. You've got to hide it. I'm pretty sure we did that the first time I came over. I think we went to that Sainsbury's. Yeah, put it in your pockets and make sure they don't see it. And that was always a thing for me. I went with a friend's family who were much more, let's say, aggressive and they didn't give a shit. So they went to Sainsbury's. They had their bag that just said Sainsbury's on it, filled with stuff. And I was like, are you going to hide it? And then they were like, no. And I was like, nope. OK. And as we were heading in, some guy was like, this is fucking about a super young guy. I was like, oh, you can't take that in. They were like, are you going to stop me? He was like, well, you can't. She was like, OK, that's fine. Anyway, bye. I'm just like sort of move positive. He was like, hmm, there's like a teenager as well. I was like, oh, he's not going to do anything about it. That's pretty funny. It's just so it feels so fucking good to if you're that guy and you're like, you're going to stop me and they don't. And you just walk in with your shit and you just got away with it and you didn't like that's you got to feel like a king. I'm fucking watching Shrek with my Coca-Cola one way or another. OK, you don't stop me. Yeah, man, I get the well, I allegedly what I would do if I did this would would be I would go down to the come and go before I would go to the theater hypothetically. And I maybe might get those good packs of like a trail mix. Trail mix is great for theaters. And because it's the package is kind of thin, you know, you could just just put it on your belt and just stick it in there. You could do this. I wouldn't. But you could do that and just walk right in. Yeah, and just have a really good snack in there. That's way, way cheaper. Last year, the whole movie, easy. I don't like the idea of somebody with suction cups up on the ceiling trying to sneakpots with like a bag full of the fucking meme. That's nuts. Is the people who bring in huge meals? So the fuck is wrong with you? Donald's especially because like they do like like full wedges with salsa and all these kinds of like and like readily cook things that you can buy. They have like fucking 50 quid or some ridiculous thing. And these people come in like awkwardly trying to balance it all. And you're just like, what is wrong with you? I don't think we have any of those. Can you just go out for a meal after the movie? Have those. For a couple hours. Geez, around here. Yeah, I I assume that I guess this isn't just an American thing. But it seems like it is an American thing. The idea that like theater food used to be popcorn in a soda. Yeah, maybe a little box back in my day or whatever. And now they're like, we'll get you chicken wings, pizza, hamburgers and fries and like actual like fast food kind of not even necessarily fast food, but like meals. And I'm like, I can't imagine going to a theater watching a movie while I've got my greasy, my hands and stuff like eating one of these while I'm watching. Like, oh my God, like this, I would feel like a degenerate. Oh, my God, trying to go inside. I ain't going that far like crazy dog. This is ridiculous. What is wrong with you? I mean, I mean, I think I'll just get some nacho chips to rags. Come on. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. Nacho chip grease is not shows are often like really dry. So they're you shouldn't they shouldn't be greasy. Do you? So something that we have at cinemas over here is we have like a super, super duper special way more expensive selection of cinemas like that are part of the main cinema where you can go in and you can get like wine and shit. And yes, they will give you like a full meal and they will bring it into you during the movie. You pay a lot of money for this cost. Yeah, we have those here. What is now this is going to be very important detail. This is a question rags. You were degenerate when you go to the much more expensive. I am. And here's the thing. I thought that's the ones we were talking about. That's a good question, Fringy, but I'm going to need a little bit more information, right? Yeah. So what is the nature of the seats of this place? Are you sitting at like a table in the chair? So what they have is they'll have there's way less seats in the cinema. They'll be like instead of like 50, you have like maybe, you know, 12, 16. And they have like they have, you know, you know how like at university you've got like the like intellectual and you've got like the the the table that you like pull out and then it's attached to the chair. It'll be something like that that they have for you to eat on. So like I'll bring you fries and I'll put it on this little table for you to eat with your champagne if you want it. Oh, I like I love a good fries and champagne. It's evolving to the point where the film is just a fucking painting in the background on the wall. It's almost like an excuse to go to a restaurant. Just go away, you know, you don't have to justify it with the film. I do enjoy the filet mignon in the background. It's like, you know, I don't find that funny. Somebody ate a good filet mignon while watching the models. Pure cinema. Excquisite food. It will be a flash. Anyway, anyway, back to Chris. Again, it's expensive, but this isn't just about going to a theater to support a theater. It's really about the kinds of movies that are being made. A thousand people have talked about this forever. And I'm not the first person to say this. But the thing is, it's like we often complain that movies aren't the same as they used to be. Why are they like that doesn't look like a real movie? Blah, blah, blah. We hear those complaints all the time. And then we go home and we pirate movies or we don't buy the Blu-ray or we don't go to the theater. Speak for yourself, but I buy all the ones that I fucking love. All right, it's important to do that. I support many artists with my money. I mean, I don't know how many. What's what for everybody here? What's your most bought individual piece of media? And to give you an example to get to what I'm talking about is like Resident Evil 4. I've bought Resident Evil 4. Yeah. Yeah. Resident Evil 4 is my most purchased piece of media. I'm trying to think of what. Good question. I actually don't know. I have I have three or four copies of The Shining because I was trying to find one where there wasn't a color correction mistake in it that many of the Blu-rays have for the tennis ball is pink instead of yellow. So I've hunted down one that doesn't have that mistake in it. So I have like five or six of those, I think, actually. Did you get it? I did get it. Yes. There you go. I got I got two copies of Mario Kart 8. I think I have a couple of things I've doubled for, actually. I was trying to aim for, like, more than doubles. I don't think I have more than that. I don't think I have more than sort of something. Yeah, I think in my life, I've owned five copies of Smash Brothers Melee just because it used to go back and forth between my friend's house and mine and the box broke. And then it got in this one of those shit sleeves that doesn't actually protect them and they kept breaking them. We got a new one and a new one and then about a decade later when we decided that, yeah, actually, that was a really good game. We need to get that again, but we can't find it. And then we found it and was broken. So we got another one and then another one. So there's yeah, there's five of those around somewhere. I mean, my thing with Baldur's Gate 2, I'm counting the remasters in that, obviously, because the enhanced edition came out, but then I was buying them on mobile. Then I forgot they had them on a different platform, so I bought it on Steam again. I was like, I do that a lot. That's why I'm like, now I'm just buying things on Steam because I forget I own the game otherwise. Because I have so many doubles because of Humble Bundle. They were like, here's this game. It's like, oh, I bought that two years ago. I don't know what to do with this. Because I've got, Resident 4 would be GameCube, PS2, 360, PC. I think that would be all my copies. Mine would be, yeah, GameCube, Xbox, Steam, and Wii. Oh yeah, okay, there was a Wii one, yeah. Yeah, it's the easiest and the worst version of the game. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, and obviously if the fucking remake counts, which I guess, I don't know, probably not. Same company, it might, it's a very different game, but also, it might inspire it, it might. Yeah, it's, yeah, I think because it's a different game, it doesn't count, it just counts as, I bought a different game that's also Resident Evil 4. Because it would depend on the kind of remake you get. Because that one is just, yeah, there's enough differences I'd say that it's not quite buying a double. Yeah, like I bought Dead Space the original twice, once on the Xbox 360 and once on PC. And the remake is, you know, just fundamentally, it's a totally different game. So I would say that I'm not buying Dead Space again, I'm buying the Dead Space remake, a new game. Theater and we wonder why Hollywood isn't hearing us and it's because the only way they do is if we spend money, you can go. Oh, they've heard, the box office at least, the pain of, you know, you know what I mean? Like, because raising up good movies and bringing down bad movies is gonna be the, that's like the ultimate process. And even if there was no criticism of the models online, like the public have spoken somewhat, haven't they? Yeah. And you know, if you said like, yeah, but the problem is that there'll be films that come out. For example, Killers of the Flower Moon, that doesn't get enough people watching it compared to how much it should. Isn't that fascinating? That opens up the question, doesn't it? Because they never wanna frame it as good films versus bad films. They wanna frame it as cinema versus entertainment. Or content versus art, maybe. But it's just like, I feel like should you just take that step forward and say these films are poorly made versus the ones that are very well made and meaningful and creative and integrity, blah, blah, blah. Like, I feel like it gets easier to defend these points because the definitions get all muddy when you say like, we should be propping up cinema more. And it's like, why? It's closer to saying we should prop up good films. Yeah, cause good films is like, oh, fuck yeah, I'm behind that. We should prop up better things in the craft. But if you say we should prop up cinema versus entertainment, you'd be like, okay, why? And it's like, well, because they're different and interesting and special and unique and blah, blah, blah. And you should be like, sure, but like, shouldn't we just go with whatever people are enjoying? Isn't that like the better metric which happens naturally at that point? Like, I feel like it's a much more compelling argument to just say, well, no, this is better and we should support better. Well, I mean, it would be hard to convince someone, well, you need to watch a bunch of these films that may or may not interest you, that you may or may not like that that kind of auteur films, but you should watch all of them, you know, to support the idea that there should be more films that are created by auteurs or something. It's like, well, maybe it would be easier as a sell to just get people to watch the movies that they like and support the movies that they like. And then, you know, and then see what comes of that. I bet you're asked, we're gonna get more Fognites at Freddy's movies because that- Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Is that, I guess we're all agreed, it's not cinema. Boom, boom. We need the Vignites in the sound, right? Sorry, Freddy. Wait, he said, it's like Fognites at Freddy's, look at them over there, right? We get more of that. That's what I mean. It's like, can you come out of your shell? Just be honest. It's like, we don't want more shit. And Fognites at Freddy's, I mean, yeah, you wouldn't want that to be the peak of what's coming out. I get it. No. For the same time, Fognites at Freddy's sweep. It's just gonna win all the Oscars. Hollywood isn't hearing us and it's because the only way they do is if we spend money. You can bet you're asked, we're gonna get more Fognites at Freddy's movies because that film did incredibly well even though it was day and date on Peacock. They hear those things. But, so what is that as a data point? Is that bad that that's happened? Or is he just using that as an example of what needs to happen for clinical cinema? What seems to happen, maybe, yeah. But then I guess you should probably be really happy then because Marvel films are now failing spectacularly. In fact, do you see how Marvel films are both failing? This means the really difficult problem to solve when it's like, you see Fognites at Freddy's got its support and they're gonna hear that and they're gonna make more. It's like, that'll be very satisfying for the Fognites at Freddy's fan base, especially those who enjoyed the movie and want more of it. So, that means things are working as intended, right? You know what I mean? If there is a selection of people that really liked, for example, Killers of the Flower Moon, but it's not enough to fund the next Killers of the Flower Moon, I don't know what you're supposed to do about that. It's not gonna be artificial. It's cost has got a factor into it as well because Killers of the Flower Moon costs, I want to say something like $200 million, Five Nights at Freddy's cost. It's 250, I think. Oh, my God. Yeah, whereas Five Nights at Freddy cost $200 million. Well, something that's been talked about, I thought that's actually what he was gonna talk about was the thing that Matt Damon talked about on the thing where he eats the chicken wings, that there is less of a market nowadays for middle-budget films. It's films that cost $50 to $100 million, like Ev, which I think that was, because he was talking about that because that was when it was coming out. There's way less of a space for films that exist in the middle. Yeah. Which seems weird because so many of these movies that have that budget, you wouldn't, like what's the point of making a movie? It's $250 million if you're baffled as to why it costs that much. Well, that's the point. Sorry, it's $200 million, actually. $200 million still. That's like extremely. That's immensely expensive and you would need to believe that there is demand enough for a movie like that that costs $200 million compared to it costs less than. We're almost gonna fold back on the whole, we love it when they experiment and they spend like $200 million on a goofy, wacky film or $50 million on a really, really wacky and specific idea that you'd never would've thought they'd found. It's like, cool, yes, agreed, especially if it brings you something incredible you've never seen before. But there are people behind giving those money that those money needs people to give you. Yeah, you know, I'm going with it, right? It's like, imagine it with you and you're like, hey, I want to make all-rated biography of pissing who no one knows existed. It's going to be five hours long. Can I have 300 million? You'd be like, no, no. It's a little bit better, but you gotta just, you know, remember it happens. I think gamers, you know, not to throw my brothers and my sisters under the bus here, but sometimes it happens a lot with gamers. It's really easy to criticize the things that a publisher might do when it isn't your massive amount of money that's being spent on an investment that you're hoping to get back. Like, yeah, it sucks. We don't get a Titanfall 3. I get it. Titanfall 2 didn't sell very well at all. It sold very poorly. So like, yeah, you gotta understand it isn't your money going to fund these things. It isn't your millions of dollars. So, you know, it's just kind of remembering the same thing for movies. You know, yeah, a lot of movies would be really cool to have, but I mean, it takes these things to just come out of the ether. It takes money, lots of it. Back in, it would be that I agree with good old Matt Damon there that there needs to be more of a space for films that exist in the middle so that you don't have these instances of these films that cost $200 million that need to make like $600, $700 million to break even and invariably don't anymore, I guess. I don't know how it makes sense because, like, oh, nobody wants mid-budget movies. The audience in general has no idea what things cost nor do they care. They only want a movie at the end. I think the logic that he had was that people were more hesitant to go watch those kinds of films in theaters because there was some expectation of if I'm going to the theater on a big screen, I kind of want a spectacle as a motivation. And so if you're going to watch something like Air on a big screen, maybe that's harder to justify. It was an awful movie idea. Like, you can make a spectacle on a mid-budget thing. It doesn't have to be about shoes. Well, Matt Damon talking about mid-budget films like needing more space, downsizing, which I saw recently. Yeah, air was pretty good. I wasn't, yeah, it was downsizing. There wasn't being rags when I forced him through half of it, but it was awful. That movie sucked. And it was definitely, it was like 70 million budget. So it's like mid to high, right? Because once you start to get, I feel, yeah, into that 40, $50 million range, there might be one of those like, you just can't tell, especially depending on what the setting of that movie is. Well, you know, Oppenheimer, right? Nobody predicted the money that was gonna make and they did for good reason. Like there was lots of good reason behind predicting that that would not make the money it did. And so what does that mean? It's like, well, I guess it's a matter of filmmakers trying to like take advantage of markets while also satisfying expectations at the same time, which is very difficult, but that might be the only real strategy you have. Because I have a feeling what we're heading to in the coverage of this, as we do with a lot of people, is like, we've got to encourage people to get back into theaters. It's like, that's not gonna do shit. No, because you can't artificially encourage people to get back into the theaters if when they go and see the movie, they're like, damn, man, that wasn't worth it. Like I didn't enjoy that at all. They go see downsizing. They're gonna be like, what the fuck? They recognize those things. My concern with the MCU going downhill is that a lot of people are only going to the movie theaters to watch these giant movies. And if the MCU is going downhill and less people go to the movie theater to watch the MCU movies, because A, they're just waiting for Disney Plus, or B, they're not as good anymore. What's gonna be the next week? But like, you can't say that. It's like, we're sort of riding it over and using these little points. It's like, they're not as good anymore. It's like, that's seriously a huge deal though. That's probably the biggest deal. And one might say the difference between content and cinema is how good they are. Yeah, this has been frustrating because I've seen this video already. Like this has been so frustrating to see tiptoe around the facts. Like, yeah, the movies are fucking ass. Just say it. I don't ever want to say it. It sucks. It's weird. No one wants to say it. Big points. Like, oh, it's going downhill. We gotta say it after the fact. Different reasons for different people, right? Because we're talking about a mix of people at the time of films release saying like, oh, I actually loved it. Hype, yeah, woo. And then later on saying like, oh, it was bad. People like Chris who apparently have sworn off being negative. But then there are the people who are legit. Like, it's not the writing quality. It's the fact that there's no binding villain. You're like, what? No. Oh yeah, I liked that guy that we watched a few weeks ago with all of his observations about how the MCU was doomed but also that it was straight fire and cooking. Right now it seems to be that Chris is worried that if people stop going to see Marvel movies because they suck, they won't go see movies and theaters. But this year, we've had like Super Mario Brothers, we've had Barbie, we've had Oppenheim and they've all done really, really well. So I just don't think that fear has founded at all. Yeah, people are not going to not want to see movies anymore. And the ones that is exactly. That's a desire that's not going to disappear. Like it's often word of mouth. Like it just keeps going for a longer period of time because they tell their friends about it. Whereas Marvel relies on, this is a big spectacle, you need to go and see this. And then nobody goes in the second weekend. Like Top Gun, that went on third. Yeah. A ridiculous amount of time because people kept telling everybody else about how amazing it was. And eventually people, as it broke, it was like, oh, well, I need to go and see this because everyone's saying it's great. And then you got closer to home will be Guardians, right? A couple of years ago, I would guess, because there was a period of about two to three years where like 70 to 80% of the entire cinema box office was MCU phase four, Avatar the Way of Water, Jurassic World Dominion, and there was one other really big performer and all of those were absolute dog shit. And so if you look at the decline of the MCU and then you can start worrying about the future of cinema because this is pretty much, you know, a quarter of the entire box office just to pull a number out of my ass there. But it's a huge share of the box office and if that disappears, what happens to cinema? I don't know how the, I mean, I guess, because Avatar has only had a couple of opportunities to be a terrible film, whereas MCU's had lots and so maybe people aren't tired of it yet. But as has been pointed out, it's not as though nothing will arise to replace the garbage stuff. It's just that it might take a little bit of time for that to happen. But you know, Mario was popular as has been mentioned as a couple of others which have done reasonably well. It's not necessarily gonna kill cinema if the MCU goes the way of the dodo. Well, as much as I feel like this is reflective of the spheres that we sort of speak on this stuff with, but as much as we will make the claim that cinema is, or film, whatever, is at a low point that seems unprecedented, at the same time, I feel like the prescription we have is it's inevitably gonna get better because capitalism is totally gonna kick in as it already is. They can't keep making these mistakes. They can't keep not making money. And eventually they're gonna have to, you know, like an Oppenheimer, which I don't know how everyone feels here about it, but I thought it was pretty fucking good. So it's like, oh, cool. I also made loads of money, cool. And it's like, and that's the thing. It's like, oh, shit, should we be taking more of a risk on films that aren't superheroes? Cause they're like video game adaptations and live action anime that's not complete cringe? You know, there's some options. You know what I mean? Like there's little poking out of these industries and you're like, as soon as the giant that is all the money going into superheroes fucks off, that money's gonna have to go somewhere else. It's like, where is it? We still have the thing going on that all the cinemas, I don't know, signed all these contracts for all the big Marvel movies already, so they, I don't know, stink up all the theater rooms. So they have to put in like four or five screenings a day or 10 or however big they are. Like that's not gonna happen in the future with all those turn arounds. Yeah, they might be really careful about what they're gonna be like, oh, you're not gonna get 20 screenings a day. You get 10, you know, and then we can get these other movies and give them more space to breathe, I guess, I know. I don't think the risk argument works when you look at it from like what they could be doing with, because obviously, what's it called, where when you spend money on one thing until you can't spend it on something else, I forgot the term. Opportunity costs? Opportunity costs? Yeah, like they could be taking three of those 250, 270 plus million dollar movies and make three medium budget movies for the same time. And so out of 12 movies for those mid-budget, one of them's gotta be big. Like you could be building up new franchises and new series. And so the risk, I think it's way more risk to do a big budget movie than it would be many. Oh yeah, I think it's become a huge risk to invest in the MCU at this point. Like what crazy fucking business is gonna do that right now? The reason why Jason Bloom is so successful as a producer, it's because he spends like $5 million on each project. And most of them do reasonably well anyway and make their money back. And some of them make like 20 times their budget. Meanwhile, you know, the best that Marvel could, the best that they probably could have even hoped for for something like the Marvels was maybe 600, 700 million, which when you're spending as much money as you are, is that a good investment? When again factoring an opportunity cost, you could have maybe made three movies that made cumulatively a lot more money than that. Yeah, and those movies can take more risks and try new things because they're cheaper. And so more people will like it. And you might have a niche audience, but that niche audience will really like it and you can make multiple movies off the back of it. If you can reliably make a bunch of $50 million movies that make, you know, that give you a profit of $50 million or $100 million each. And you can do that, again, if you can do that reliably and you don't have to put all your eggs in one proverbial basket, then that's got to be a really appealing idea. The stuff that you can try out, the sort of feelers you can put out, maybe that will allow you to be like, oh, maybe we can actually set trends instead of trying to constantly chase them. Do you guys remember Red Letter Media's video about the Ben Hur reboot? Yeah, vaguely do, it's like a meme, right? Yeah, well, so there's one part that always sticks with me is when Mike is like, they could have taken their $100 million and made $101 million movies. If only. Thing that gets people. That's true, though. Isn't that crazy to think about that that's actually true? You could have made $101 million movies. Anymore, what's going to be the next big thing that gets people to go to the movie theaters? And I can tell you that this year I did feel a lot of hope with Barbie and Oppenheimer doing as well as they did. But a lot of that is because- Why not Mariah? Why not, Mariah? Yeah, I don't know. You made it. I don't know. Barbie gives me hope. We told people they had to go watch both and people- Like, there is an element of it's kind of cool that like a film that is, like a lot of the aspects of its production and stuff are really cool and interesting and that that exists and consists of- I think we all admitted that we were curious about Bobby. Oh, yeah. I was curious. I was kind of honestly looking forward to it. I was hoping it was going to be fun. Oh, well. People were like, well, I'm not cool unless I go watch both. I better watch both. And it was definitely bolstered by that. But also they're both really good in movies. And- Why do you keep- But like, he's just- He's really good. Hello, like, Chris, come on. But also, what's the implication? Yeah, what's the implication? It's that we need better film in general. That's the big problem. Yes. In fact, Tom Cruise himself was a major supporter of the double feature, even campaigning for it. I don't know what that would mean if anything, like, Tom Cruise supporting him. That's real great. I guess because- Probably to authority, maybe. I think it is just accepted that both of the films benefited from- Is he going to talk about dead reckoning? Ha, well, yeah, that's right. Because if he's saying like, they're so good, even Tom Cruise supported and promoted them, it'd be like, yeah. And then yes, Tom Cruise's $300 million film did not succeed. If you get a bit into the point, we'll be renaming the sequel. That's pretty bad. Yeah, that's really bad. I would say. I think that's very telling. Publicly. It'll probably be like Oppenheimer first and then Barbie, I think. I think it's like, you want like, Oppenheimer's going to be on a Friday. Do you know what I mean? And then you can go, I'll probably see it in the afternoon. You want that packed audience and then I want to see Barbie right afterwards with a packed audience. So Friday is like, you know, I used to plan my days where you'd start out early in the morning. I don't know if this has anything to do with anything really. Oh, is that the picture? Then at the top, going to see a good old Indiana Jones. Oh, talk about that, Chris. Talk about Dila death. Oh, God, remember Indiana Jones? Dude, every Disney movie that's coming out this year. It's all as if someone said, like, oh, Dila death, he suffered at the box office because people all go to theaters. Like, no, it was shit. It was seriously awful. And everyone who went to go, everyone went to go see it, said it was shit. I don't like that. And you go to movies all day and I like doing that, you know, and I'd go from one sentiment to the next and I'm going to do that. So I'm going to see him both, both opening day. And in an unfortunate twist of fate, his mission impossible film suffered. Well, here we go. Here's the hot tag. If people are to wear it, that's because the film's bad. It's a bad question possible. Unfortunately, it's quite bad. The script is horrendous. Fallout was fucking goat. And I don't know how it is. Fallout was just the amazing anomaly that somehow managed to be. Remember the scene in Fallout where Ethan is thinking about the plan to break out Lane and then imagining, and then it's just no sounds. It's just the music of him like mowing down all of the police officers to get to. Remember that sequence and then how they tied that into the broader theme of that Ethan cares about the one life that he values every individual life and it's important that people like that exist. What happened? How did that happen? How did that movie come to exist? Yeah, but we did our mission impossible homework before the reckoning came out and between me, Rags and Fringaleck, we watched the whole set and it was kind of weird watching Fallout again because it really stuck out. It was like, this is unusual compared to everything else I did. This is a shocking leave. Yeah, it's just to be good. Fallout is very, very good. It is one of the best action movies in general, I would say. I fucking love the action in it and then I love Ethan as a character in it and then obviously in a really interesting plot weaving all over the place and Henry Cavill, what an excellent choice for like an unlikely foil turned villain by the end. Like that shit's, there's so much in it that's working. And we talked about it at the time but it's just like, fuck it, it's mission impossible. Goofy enough stuff has happened. You should have brought him back. It should have been Henry Cavill and a two-parter at the end as the villain combined with some other bullshit if you want it. The AI thing was such a fucking bad idea. Ugh, awful. That's what it was. I think AI is a bad idea, but they did it badly. They done like, oh, I literally knew the name of the series. Keeps thinking of human target, but it's not the one. Code Leoken. The one that I keep hearing is Person of Interest was. Person of Interest, thank you. Yeah, that is, they do an incredible AI that builds up from like a little thing to literally world encompassing by the end of the final series. They should have just watched that series and done that. That's all they should have done. Instead, they had the guy in the little pod connected with the Varsgon, I guess, to the computer. Oh, like the coffin thing. What even, what even is that? I don't know. We'll find out on the next episode that won't be called Pod 2. We'll find out in Pod 2 which will now absolutely be the end of the mission impossible series. Yes, that'll be it. Mm-hmm. One sentiment in the next and I'm gonna do that. So I'm gonna see him both opening day. And in an unfortunate twist of fate, his excellent Mission Impossible film suffered from the Barbenheimer smackdown at the box office. Is that the narrative you're gonna go in? The Barbenheimer. I'm so tired of this idea that no, it was obvious that Mission Impossible should have moved out of the way when Fallout made like $800 million. It was so obvious that it should have moved out of the way. I think that's absurd. I think they had the reason that we're gonna make a lot of money. Yeah, it's busy, but July is always busy. They, like, yes, obviously that phenomenon had an impact, but I think the fact that Mission Impossible dead reckoning wasn't very good probably also played a big role in... People talking about it didn't last very long. It just didn't. Nope, nope, because it was just kind of like, oh yeah, no, it was a really cool action movie, whereas Fallout could again evoke more interesting conversations about that film. Yeah, well, not only that, we had a direct comparison to Top Gun. It's like, that's a Tom Cruise lead, the hyper-action movie, big budget, Macquarie's directing as well, right? These loads of similarities. He was producing. Oh, okay, well, those two is like a team, I guess you could put it that way. They're involved. And like, yeah, it's like, why did one do much so much better? And you can talk about IPs and stuff, but it's like Mission Impossible Fallout was very successful. This is the sequel. You know what I mean? It's in the public consciousness. Everyone was pretty excited, but it comes out, and I remember, a lot of people saying, yeah, it was really good. And then a lot of people, after a week, were like, hmm, there you are. But I do feel a genuine craving from audiences for outside-the-box filmmaking. And I don't think it's... Just say they want good movies. Well, but... Fucking say it. He feels a craving from the audience for outside-the-box filmmaking. Would that not be represented then in, you know, box office somewhat? Yeah, it should be. Or is he saying that there's a... If I think back on the, what was it called, the Northman? Is that what was like two years ago? Which was kind of fun to... Sorry? I think so, yeah. Yeah, because that was... I think, yeah, I watched that in the cinema. I was like, I think it was okay. I don't even remember it that well. But it was like a little bit different, but yeah, that didn't do very well. That's not gonna be another one of those. Because I don't think they want necessarily something different. They want something good and entertaining and something that doesn't waste their time. You know, Top Gun 2 wouldn't exactly be cool. They don't think outside-of-the-box filmmaking. No. It's not equal to a long-established thing, and it plays on lots of quite safe and familiar beats, but it gives character payoffs and people kind of liked it. I suppose what we can see Barbie is outside-of-the-box filmmaking. Up to a point, I'd say Barbie, yeah. I'd say Rella. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, what does the audience want? It's like, well, it's really fucking hard. And if everyone knew the easy answers to that, then obviously we'd be releasing nothing but, you know, billion-dollar films and stuff, but that's not what's happening. Inside my small filmmakers, I'm a film-lover community that we're all kind of a part of, where we want to see everything and we're excited about film and we talk about movies, and it means a lot to us. I know that not everybody's like that. I have tons of friends who watch, like, two movies and theaters a year, but I am actually a little concerned for movie theaters, for physical media, for some of these things that I do feel. I don't know why we keep talking about physical media when, like, that's a different conversation to movie theaters. It has to be. Yeah. I just want him to move it along to, like, ultimate, like, so let's say physical media dies outright. Chris, tell me, like, your insights. What do you think? How does things suffer moving forward with that? Like, tell me what you think. And don't just repeat things you've heard from other people, but I don't even know if we're gonna get that far, because we're halfway through now. I don't feel like we've gotten a lot from him so far, you know? Yeah. Come on. Our staples of our industry, of what we love, because everything is changing right now and it's very scary. Just... See what I mean? It's very scary. Everything's changing and it's scary. It's like, that's... Yeah. What is changing? What's scary? I feel like... Okay, so there's... Now we're moving on to a different conversation that we're talking about in the warm-up as shelving films. That feels like it's very much discarded from the... Yeah, but we're gonna talk about it now, Fringy. Yeah, because we could talk for ages about the nature of, like, why is physical media selling less and what happens if it stops entirely, you know, negative, positive. And then we could talk about theaters, pros and cons of going and then pros and cons of it going forever. And then we could talk about the nature of films being completed and shelved permanently, the pros and cons of why that happened. So it's like, Chris, feel like you're just highlighting these things and you're not quite explaining why, but let's see if he does it for this one other than saying, this is art that's been made and now people can't see it and that's bad. Which I guess this is now aged pretty badly, right? Because they're shipping it around now. Well, no, that might be in the video. Yeah, he puts it on now. Warner Brothers once again canceled a finished movie with the Coyote versus Acme film that apparently was completely done and had really strong test scores at screenings. Now, recent reports do seem to indicate that Warner might allow the film to be sold elsewhere, but keep in mind that was only after being absolutely eviscerated in the press and social media by every single entertainment outlet, as well as a 100% united public and fandom. If we had remained silent, this potential option might not have shown itself. Do you have any idea how terrifying that is? Especially as a filmmaker, you work so hard. There's a, I mean, I'm waiting for him to sort of crystallize at the point. Yeah. Give me some. Well, cause now we can just say a point that I consider again unrelated, which is doesn't it suck to work on something only to by the time it's done, they're like, nah, and then nobody gets to see it? Yeah, sure. What's that got to do with like Marvel films not making money in the depth of movie theaters? I think part of the earlier argument is that movie theaters are dying because not enough people are going to go and see films because, you know, and that that's worrying and that's changing and that's terrifying. And yet here's a really good example of fans clamoring to see a thing and the studio realizing that they made a mistake and correcting it. Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess, but now he's about to do the thing I'm talking about how it would be scary if you made a film and then they decide now we're not going to release it, which yeah, but like, that's a different conversation. But also, I mean, you know, the reason why Warner Brothers is doing this shit is because they're in a lot of fucking dead. That's why they're doing it. So this is one of the, I wasn't going to be the first to bring it up. I was waiting for it. I was just like, should we talk about why this shit happens? Do you know why it happens, Chris? You're very savvy with the industry now. I would add to, I would say this is a terrible long-term strategy because if you're like a director, you want to go to the studio that has a track record for shelving completed projects. I might go somewhere else. I probably want to work with a different studio. So like short-term, you know, Warner Brothers might make some money, but this seems like a disastrous long-term move. Yeah. Even put into one side to hold not releasing things. You can subvert that or circumvent that. You could make it so that you're only going to sign if you guarantee release upon completion or whatever. Like you couldn't have directors that can get their safeties put in. Well, sure, but like, I guess that would have to be a thing you need now compared to before where there was just an expectation that when the film is being shot, it's going to come out. And there are a lot of directors that might actually like, do you really think that Peyton Reed is going to be like, no, you're not releasing my movie? I was just reading the other day. I guess I don't know. Maybe I've been too big. I was just reading the other day that Snowpiercer season four is that that was finished and wasn't being released on TNT. So I looked up when he said Warner, but yeah, it's Warner Brothers Discovery. He's done it for the entire season. It makes them look, I gotta imagine there are a lot of people who'd be like, dude, I don't ever want to work with Warner Brothers. Like, why would I work with a studio that has a way greater chance than any other major film studio of just shelving something that's already done? I think long term, it's a really bad idea. And it picks up on you as well. Like, that's the final season. No one will know what happened. Completely brand new as a process. This has happened before in history with film as well, being shelved through about a certain time. Having multiple films pretty close to each other. You know, I mean, like when you've got like three or four movies within the span of a year that were already done and ready to go. And then you're like, it's just me. I understand your argument. I just don't think Warner Brothers are going to have trouble finding directors. I don't buy that as a thing that's going to happen. I could imagine that it would be a bit more of a struggle. I mean, there's so many that they'll have the pick off. And then there's plenty of people who will just take the job to have the job, even with the worry of the film not coming out. Well, sure. But what about, I mean, what about like the the notion of losing the big names that will never come back? Like, I don't think Christopher Nolan's ever going to work with Warner Brothers again. Like he's now with Universal. I think James won. It's with Warner Brothers anymore, either he's going over to Universal. Like, there is definitely an element of just losing key talent that will never, ever, ever come back, which is probably not good. Having the doors closed permanently for certain creators. Yeah. I mean, at that point, they're going to need to focus on the ones that are willing to work with them or luck out with brand new talent that eventually becomes someone like I know. And then of course you have to deal with the general. Like Warner Brothers as a studio kind of has a bit of a clown reputation now. They're kind of viewed as like a bit of a clown studio, it seems, of like that they've had films that keep consistently failing and that they're shelving these projects. It's the same problem Disney has right now, right? As well of having like a kind of a negative attachment to their name. Yeah, because they keep just getting rid of stuff on the network, right? On the Disney Plus network. Does that, yeah. Just can't watch anymore. Is there at least like physical copies you can get for those? Or are they just gone? There's no physical copy of Willow, for example, which is a real challenge. Damn it. Do you guys love the fact that Ion Ironically do. Willow's only alive in piracy? That's fucking hilarious. Who the fuck is in a pirate lab? Be like, I gotta protect it. Thank you, Piracy. The idea of how terrifying that is, especially as a filmmaker, you work so hard to get that ever elusive green light and someone gives you that green light and you're like, all right, I'm in. Yeah, and you're right, Fring, I don't know what this, does this support anything else or is he just saying the state of the film industry as a whole? Another state of the movie industry, I think. I guess the thing is, he would have to accept that this is downstream of films are failing, studios are losing money. Yeah. Like Warner Brothers and Disney have a massive amount of debt. You know, if the Snyderverse were fucking 10 out of 10, this maybe is, everything would be okay for Warner Brothers in a lot of other ways, like. Maybe, yeah, maybe. You want that. Like, because those films could have made shit tons of money. And then, you know, some have made okay amounts of money. So it's just like, the amount of knock-on that that would have had in the industry in lots of ways. I guess the thing is now, they probably would like some okay money compared to. Yes. Yeah, they can't even make okay money in a lot of these. Well, it's crazy. The suicide squad flopped, right? Yes, it did. But I guess the thing is that was during, well, no, now the problem is again, Five Nights at Freddy was really simultaneously on streaming and it still made money. So. I mean, the assumption for back then was that it was it was worse because like Black Widow, Wonder Woman 84. Wonder Woman 84, yeah, a lot of movies. Yeah. But now I'm not so sure. The fact that Five Nights at Freddy had a bunch of money. Well, yeah. We highlighted at the time with Black Adam that we like that that suffered probably because I guess the Rock isn't as big a draw. I guess the Black Adam's characters and that is just like now looking back is like, oh, I think it was just that, like things are just fucking down trending. I wish they could make Black Adam money. Yeah. Black Adam. Oh, that Black Adam, man. I'm making the Black Adam money. Let's go. But now I better really focus because I got to make this thing. All right, I made it. Holy shit. Yeah, see, I don't know what he's doing here. Like this is the big impassioned speech of, look, I'm a creator. I can relate to the struggle of cram something and then again, Sheldon, nobody ever seen it. Like you don't need to do that. Everybody understands this. Not a good thing. I'm motivated to be like, well, I mean, there's other stories happening at the same time. There's all kinds of like business decisions that are being made that will be beyond the creative aspects. That's just the nature of all of this, the creation, the fact that you even had a chance to make it in the first place as a result of loads of very cold business decisions. So the fact that there's repercussions for those decisions is something you should be prepared for in some way, shape or form. But then on top of that... If you're going to work... Mm-hmm. What do you want to go ahead? I was just going to say, if you're working for a big studio, you have to understand that this is going to be part of the equation. If you work with some... In the same way if you're working for EA, you know the deal. Like if you're working at an EA studio, you understand the deal, OK? You've got to make a lot of money. And on that note, you know, why don't you make a speech about how horrible it is to have your script fucked with or to have your scenes fucked with at editing or have your scenes fucked with at the time with some studio head being like, I'm secondary director now, woohoo, look at me. This goes there. I guess it goes there. That's how it's there. I was watching random film talk made of videos on The Hobbit, which are very good. I highly fucking recommend them. The Hobbit trilogy of movies. And one of the things that he discovered was that Thranduil, who was the Elven King character that you don't remember. He was actually one of the best characters in the movies. They had an entire segment or an entire element of his character that was essentially his whole motivation for why he's involved in the story, essentially, for the most part. And it was just removed. They had it. And the scene where when Thorin dies at the end and they have one of the dwarves there and they shot a whole scene where the dwarf is reacting to his death and he's like, oh my god, and he's acting his ass off and he's got his face and everything. And they just cut these sorts of things out. And it gets your mind back on that track of like, holy shit, they make all these things and they just don't have it in. These are just creative decisions that someone makes to be like, nah, we don't need to see this very prominent dwarf who's been Thorin's most allied guy that's been with him through thick and thin through the whole thing, who's the most duty bound. We don't need to see him reacting to his death even though we shot the fucking scene and there it is, you can see the scene that they shot on the green screen that they just didn't have in the movie. And you're like, who makes these decisions? The Ryan Johnson thing about, we don't need to see Luke Morn. And I'm like, what the fuck? I don't understand. You guys make these. You spend all this money in this time and effort and one of you, one of you fuckers was just like, nah, we don't have it. Who was it? Put your hand up. Don't have it in the movie. Don't do it. No. We don't need that. We did all of post, all of the CG, all of the animation. We've got the score. It's edited. It's being tested. Holy shit. Like we're here. And then some guy just checks a few boxes on a form and says, fuck you. Yeah, but like, this is what I mean. I fucking hate to try and add more context to his statement, but it's like, it is a little bit more complicated than he checks a few boxes. It's like, you know, there's a huge process going on. There's loads of fiduciary responsibilities. It's like, just boring to present this as, you know, someone made a thing and it was beautiful and it was crushed by the foot of the suit. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Cause that guy who made the thing is probably like, oh, the turnaround for this one is probably not going to be good enough. It's going to be just more quote unquote profitable to just shelve it and get the text backs for that or whatever works. There's like a whole machine behind this, obviously. Loads of lame business suit decision things everyone hates. It's just that like, you could at least try to, though, cause this is what I try to bring up whenever someone talks about studio interference. It's like, yeah, but nobody ever talks about the times it worked ever. Cause nobody fucking wants to. Sometimes directors have stupid fucking decisions that are awful. True. What do we say about that? Hmm. These cancellation, these, not showing it to people might be when it works. Like we never saw, what was it? Batwoman or Batgirl. Batgirl, yeah. Yeah. Batgirl. If that was just genuinely so bad that they watched it like no one's watching this, then that was it working. He made the right decision and you can, you can make the argument. Oh, well, they spent a lot of time on it. Yeah. But what they made was trash. And so somebody else made the call that you couldn't because they were more talented. You can spend a lot of time gambling and you still have to know to walk away from the table. Yeah. It is their money, not yours. That's the thing. Yeah, but he made a thing. It was beautiful. Look at it. Look at it wiggle. Watch it. Look at it. That's the world we're living in right now. And no one's taking this seriously. People are pissed at it. No one's taking this seriously. No one's taking this seriously. I mean, it's happening now. You just said that there was a big throwback. Yeah, just what he said. He said nobody's taking this seriously. People were pissed. These are too contradicting. This is what's known as a contradiction. People do care. People are mad about it. It's highly, it's like ridiculously particular as well. Because fair enough, if all you're looking at when you're doing this analysis is Warner and Disney, then yes, you might get the sense that film is completely unrevocably fucked for all time. But notably, there are, you know, other studios. And also, we've just come off the back of a long period where streaming services were handing out unlimited amounts of money to people with no track record to do pretty much whatever they wanted. There was a period where Netflix didn't greenlight pretty much any pitch that was ever given to them. Well, I mean, well, too. Who wrote Rings of Power? Some guys. Yeah. It was the unprecedented role on the subject. That's actually a point we don't talk about enough. Yeah. The amount of fucking talent that's given carte blanche to do fucking anything crazy that they want without any histories is absolutely nuts. And it's actually right in fit in with the whole experimentation outside of the box filmmaking. Why don't we give it to the guy who's been mopping the floors? Fuck it. What's he got to say about Ant-Man? It's like, oh. Now, unironically, we want them to do that. But for different reasons, we're just like anyone. Just get anyone else. It's very much over after the writers and actors strike. I remember reading the whole article talking about how now they're going to be spending less money. There are going to be less scripted shows. There's going to be probably consolidation of streaming services. They can't all they like. I don't see how Peacock. That's not long for this world. I don't see how that could be locked in this world at all. Well, remember that era is definitely over. Was it phase one was. Correct me if I'm wrong. Paramount. No, no, no. Joe Johnson was Captain America, right? And you got Kenneth Branagh was Thor. Iron Man John Favreau. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incredible Hulk. Who made that? I can't remember. Well, in any case, those are pretty well known names. And you get Joss Whedon for the big, you know, collection one. James Gunn coming in to do Guardians. I mean, like, oh, look, creators with histories that are very well recognized. And you actually have a reason to choose them. Like, oh, Joss Whedon has made several TV shows with team ups of several like heroes. And he's obsessed with the comics. And he's got experience of working a project like this. I guess that makes some sense. Michael Waldron. I know it was Jeff Loveness. Oh, it's my first screenplay for a film, Ant-Man and the Lost Quantumania. How? How? I don't understand. How is that possible? Exactly. Yeah. And the writers that like you check their histories and it's like, oh, they did one episode of Flim Flam from 1973. Yeah. What the fuck? Why? I love Flim Flam. Absolutely unreal. And so, yeah, like, you'll be like, Chris, you, you know, I guess you consider that pretty cool, right? Like, giving all these people a chance when they've got no histories or experience and it's crash and burn the whole fucking industry for Disney. Like, what do we think about that? Yeah, I hope you're satisfied with how that experiment played out. But I'm telling you, like, these are all really bad omens. David Zaz. Don't give me that. That's just the thing happening. Give me actual arguments. Talk about what it's going to do as a cause and effect. Don't say bad omens. Yeah. The bad omen is when the eagle flies on the left side of your army before the battle. No. I hate what happened. The bad omen isn't you getting fucking destroyed in the battle. That's just the thing occurring. You being stabbed in the face. You're like, this is a bad omen. That's like, I have to be an omen. This is my eye. Yeah. This might not go so well, guys. This is an ill portent. Yeah. Love takes over an entire movie studio who doesn't care about film, obviously, who will literally cancel and completely just delete from existence a movie that James Gunn has a screen story credit on. That doesn't mean. Okay. So implicit in what you just said is there are creators who are worth just less than other creators. That's actually so fascinating. The implication here is I will James James Gunn film is less worthy of being deleted from existence. That guy is one. Yeah. Some other guy. What's funny is that we might argue that. It's fine. We might argue. Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, some creators are probably just. We would say it's a better bet. Like if you're going to get a screenplay from James Gunn versus Michael Waldron, we'd be like, oh yeah, James Gunn. But like Chris isn't in the position. He's made the whole fucking thing about not being negative, not trash anybody. At the same time, he's like, yeah, but yours is worthy of being destroyed compared to James Gunn. Or maybe or maybe the absolute. We're not saying it's worse. It's just not cinema. The fact that they would look at a James Gunn thing. James Gunn, a guy who's made money, that they would even look at his thing and decide nah, maybe that's what they're saying. Shouldn't you then extend the logic to wow, imagine how fucking bad it was that even a James Gunn connection couldn't save it? Yeah. Well, yeah, but he can't. He's not going to trash any people, film makers though. That's an assumption of what they thought. No, he's not. No, it's okay. You know what? You rise an interesting point. Definitely something to think about, Fringy. And Gunn is working quite a lot with Warner Brothers right now, isn't he? That's where we're at. Entire filmmakers, movies and TV shows are disappearing from. Entire filmmakers. That's the way to say it. Filmmakers entire, maybe. Streaming services. For example. Those writers and stuff are the reason why they're disappearing. It's because they were having to pay them to keep them on the service and nobody was watching the stuff. It's like. If you want to give up your residuals, they'll keep them forever. I consider all the things he's highlighting as symptomatic of a core problem, which is that film is on an unfortunate decline in the highest of budgets area, especially superheroes. And it's been so thoroughly acknowledged at this point that like everyone's making fun of it. Even technically you, Chris, the thumbnail has the marbles in it. What do you think you're trying to say? Let it out, Chris. You didn't say it. Let it out. These shows are disappearing from streaming services. For example, did you know that Mike Flanagan's great movie, Hush, is no longer on Netflix? Yeah, it's bullshit. But there's a lot of these examples that are really bad, like films that are just gone forever. Like Willow, the precious, precious Willow. No. That's right. Willow less than six months after the last episode wrapped up. No, it's less than six months after the first episode launched. The entire thing was gone from Disney Plus. You had a... You did not have much of a window to watch that show. The only way to watch that show right now is a non-legal mean. It's so nuts. I can't... It's insane. An entire series of TV. And like that quick, it's gone. That might be the fate for Hush right now unless it gets... I know that Flanagan's done with Netflix in like a negative way. I'm pretty sure he had like pissed off with them. Oh yeah, and I was going over to Prime. Yeah, because it might be to do with something to do with like how the content is sort of saved. Because I know that you have to like fight for physical releases, which I have of Hill House and Bly. I don't know if there is one for Midnight Mass, nor do I think there will be one for Usher. That's a shame. What can you do? I really like Usher. It's interesting that he framed it like, oh, his great movie. I can't find it anywhere. Like would he feel that way if it wasn't great in his mind? Does the quality matter whether it's okay to disappear them, you know? He probably just wouldn't bring it up or, you know, just going to brush over. It's like, oh yeah, that movie too. That was a Netflix movie. It's nowhere. You can't watch Hush anywhere right now. It just doesn't exist. There was never a Blu-ray. It's erased until somebody picks it up at some point and maybe that'll happen. Maybe it won't. This is why people are concerned. I don't think this is just that Simpson's meme of the old man yelling at a cloud. Nobody mis-compare on this old man yells at a cloud. It's nothing to do with being old. Yeah, nobody's saying that. Why has he spent 11 minutes out of touch old people? Declaring things that are happening that people find uncomfortable slash wrong. It's like, can you make a point, though? What's your point, Chris? What do we need to do? What happens next? We do think that there are really bad signs here. Stop saying bad signs. Start saying ill portents. Oh, yeah. A big franchise that's been keeping theaters afloat over the years is going downhill and less people are attending them. Okay, here's a question. Do you guys think- He's not blaming Yorkings on this, is he? Do you think there's a reasonable timeline from where we are now where all theaters shut down? No. No, I don't think so. I don't think so either. Do you think there's a reasonable timeline in which theaters start to open up more? Not in the near future. I don't know. I think they're just sort of playing it by ear right now. I think it's hard to say. I think that highlights kind of where I was going with that, which is I feel like we all agree it's more likely that theaters will become healthier than stop entirely. I mean, it might be. Maybe the conclusion to be drawn from the destruction of Marvel is maybe this is a good thing. Well, I mean, obviously, I don't like these movies and I would like for them to be less of them or for them to be better. Right. The idea that the industry has been kept afloat by these shit movies was always untenable. Dude, it's a nostalgia critic argument. It's gross. Horrible. It's just maybe that's the conclusion is this was always untenable. This was inevitable. And we need to get to a place where films, you know, the industry is thriving on like a healthy mix of movies rather than just one set of really, really, really bad movies that was never going to last if the quality was going to deteriorate. Like, I don't know that there's necessarily any reason to believe that everything's fucked because of this downward trend, especially when as has been pointed out, unexpected films like a three hour long bio pick about often are rated by a pick about Oppenheimer is one of the most successful films of the year. Well, so that's the thing. I'm hoping instead of dooming about this and being like this could spell the end for theaters, I'd rather see it as this is spelling the end of Marvel's stranglehold on theaters to the point where other films like an R rated biopic or adaptation of a video game or a fucking Barbie, all of these can make a billion. And it's like, oh, as has been pointed out before when when like Dr. Strange was coming out, you pull up like any theater, there was like 20 screenings, 30 screenings, and if you want to see any other film is like, oh, well, you can go see it at like one PM on a Wednesday. You know, like there is an element of they were taking out so much space that other films didn't even have like the capacity to meaningfully compete. Maybe it'll become a more balanced playing field. Maybe part of the reason why some of these other middle market films have been failing is because there wasn't enough space for them physically at the theater. Yeah, maybe that'll change. Yeah, I think it's a responder to market conditions that have nothing to do with even the quality of the films. In my hometown, before TV was a thing, had about six cinemas in it. TV comes along and there's a huge contraction in the number of independent cinemas, largely because more people were finding it easier and cheaper and more enjoyable to stay home. There's still a big theater going audience, but it's not going to be as big because people aren't locked into that as the main means of consuming the product. And so there will inevitably be a change because of the rise of streaming, for example, and because of the proliferation of new big budget TV shows, which are as good as movies, or the fact that movies move to TV so much more quickly. I don't think we'll have the same number of cinemas in 10 years as we do now. I think that number will decrease and more fewer, fewer but bigger chains will own them all. My town has two cinemas. There's no point in having two cinemas. It will never fill two cinemas in any given day. Eventually, they will probably go back to being one. But that's because there's only really the demand for one. But it's never going to go away. It's just going to be maybe a smaller share of the overall viewing demographic. And that raises the question of how many theaters should there be? As many as there needs. As many as there is is probably going to be about that number because it sort of corrects for itself. You've now made me think about something else that has also been answered from the conversation in terms of talking about the market conditions. Inflation is pretty high. A lot of people are... Cost of living is a thing that's happening right now as well as a problem that is absolutely and almost certainly contributing to these sorts of problems of the amount of money that's being made in entertainment sector. When it's costing more money to buy groceries, people might be more selective about the movies they see in theaters. And maybe those conditions will be alleviated in a year or two or three or four. It's hard to say long term what the demand's going to look like. Even with that, you could say equal parts then that the films have to be great to pull people into the theaters to watch them there. And then of course, the fact that films are now having to compete with video games, right? There's a lot of people who would rather play video games. Video games make more money than the film industry, make more money than television. You're also competing against other mediums of entertainment that exist out there. Not to be too me or me about it, but the whole great man create great times, great times create weekbed, weekbed, great week time. If you replace men with films and the times with, I don't know, box office, maybe or it's health of theater or a health of film industry. I feel like we maybe entered a big old portion of really great films created shit times. Good times and then good times, the apathy slash complacency created loads of really bad to okay films that have now created this time where it's all over the place. We don't know what's going to be successful. What the fuck's going on? You have the analogous effect in, I think a couple of the business cycle theories have the idea of malinvestment, which is a kind of an analogy for good men create bad times, which is that you've had a period of incredibly free, easy and cheap money, which is being poured into hugely non profitable things, but because the money is so easy to get, no one's really paying attention to where it's going. And so it is like people will say, yeah, it's absolutely tenable to do multiple reshoots for the dial of destiny and spend an extra $200 million on that. That's definitely something we can do because we've got the cash lying around, you know. And then of course that produces a worse product because it becomes baked into the business decision that you can just top up the cash if ever you need to reshoot, if ever you need to improve, and of course it's never going to make a profit. Then the money begins to run out and all of a sudden that can't happen anymore. And eventually that will probably lead to an improvement in the quality of film because it's taken out of the equation that you can just keep spending unlimited amounts of money on filler content because you now have to be much more savvy about where you're spending a limited pool of cash. And eventually it comes around and the business cycle becomes more profitable and everything's optimistic again, but we're coming off the end of, or at least we might be in the middle of this incredibly shit time. Well, because isn't it nuts that we would be known, I think, on the internet more so as the doomer-y side of things, like we would be like, oh, you hate everything and you're always negative. But like I see this headline as like hope. It's like finally these fucking movies with all the ridiculous amounts of money and holding over everything. But Chris is like, this is terrible. Theatres are going to start dying. Yeah, it's almost like... It's almost like a market correction in the stock market, you know? It's like, oh, all right, yeah, now we finally realize that this shit is untenable about the state of all of it. And now it's reflecting its true value in the marketplace. This is a side effect of not being able to say anything's negative. It's the same value. And so what are the situations that movies dying? All movies die because there's no hierarchy, nothing is better than anything else. Right, if everything's equal, then yeah. Exactly, how does he distinguish between if a Marvel movie fails versus any movie, is that any better or worse? Yeah, the answer is that he can't, unless of course he actually has a perspective which is that he believes Marvel movies are like inferior as art to... Yeah, so to him it's just movies as a whole are dying because these movies are the biggest ones and they don't work. Which is exactly what people used to say about Westerns and, you know, the great dominating cinematic franchises of say the 1950s, 60s, and then you have this complete dearth of any meaningful content really, until it begins to revive in the 70s and then you get a huge succession of blockbusters in the 80s, which are the product of this renaissance that comes about because all the doomers who said well, Westerns are dying, cinema will therefore die, just haven't, you know, accounted for the fact to these conditions, new people will come along with newer ideas and they will fill the gap and eventually the new franchise is brawn and everything is much better after that point and then again we go over the crest of that as well and everything becomes shit again. We're just in a bad place but it's not going to doom cinema. This is like your your druggy brother coming to you and saying I don't know, just cocaine it just, methamphetamine, meth, it just doesn't give me the high anymore. I'm just not really into meth anymore and you're like no, that's good news that means maybe he can get off of it, you know, he could he might stop taking it, this will help him correct his life and get back to the way things used to be, where everything was wonderful. It's not looking at that and saying, oh no but the meth dealer, oh no the meth dealer he might not, oh no think about all the meth dealers out there, they might not be making the money because it's just not doing the trick anymore. Oh no, this is bringing people into the drug world. There's connections to be made but I was going to say as well like there's several solutions one of them would have been that Marvel gets back to making good shit, but like we've had such a long time and such a consistent explanation of how they make films that we're just like there's no fucking hope, like it's going to be so unlikely that they crap out something good. It was the culture thing when we were talking earlier about the culture of being able to be in an environment where you can have criticism, things of that nature Marvel, Disney Star Wars, these spaces, when was the last time that this kind of a culture had existed at this corporation? Are we going to have when you see all the people who made The Lion King and Halo and stuff like that, when you see them talking about the thought process, why they did what they did, scrapping things, restarting them trying again. A healthy amount of misery. Yeah, a healthy amount of misery but are we in? I remember it was a quote because the Halo 2 if you haven't seen it, the Halo 2 behind the scenes is like fascinating because Halo 2 was a particularly difficult development for Bungie. That was really tough and there are so many interesting things that they say in that. I remember something that, no it was Jason Jones said, he said this and they don't care if it took you like, I'm paraphrasing it was something along the lines of they don't care if it took you half an hour or if it took you six months and a gallon of blood the point being that at the end of the day what people see is the thing that you create I believe that people are receptive to how hard people work when it's good I don't think people care as much when it's bad how hard you work on something. When it's bad it's almost like an extra tragedy on top of how bad it is, like wow you have that much time and effort to make something this shit. When you find out that Anthem took what, seven years of development or something like that you're just like wow, oh my god so much time and energy and effort and then it didn't end up anywhere but the point being that obviously the process is really important from a creative standpoint but what people see at the end of the day that's the thing that stands the test of time there's a Jackie Chan thing that was in the every frame of painting video, are you going to go around to every theatre and tell everybody, well we did enough of these takes everybody's getting tired of wanting to go home you're not going to, that's right Stop being critical, do you understand how hard they work? That was what Jackie Chan was saying, it wasn't talent it was do you have the patience to do it until you get it right of doing like 130, 140 takes but the point of you're not going to go around to every theatre and explain to them how hard you worked and that you were really tired that day, like nobody gives a shit ultimately Yeah, I'm not buying your effort I'm buying your product You're buying the end result of what you did and a big part of that is difficulty in terms of an iterative process receiving criticism either from yourself or from people who are working with you outside and then incorporating that into it there's nothing wrong with that process but if you're in an attitude of never being critical ever, how do you even identify where to improve and grow? I think that's what Marvel's issue is like what I was saying with the culture issue that they're just going to have to completely reinvent their entire process of making art I have to They're going to have to make movies basically Because this headline is an example of one tendril and it's a really cool announcement because we already know that several other tendrils have been fucking ripped off of the film industry and that Disney they know better than we do because they're internal, they've got to change and that's kind of the hope side of it You hope they get better at making film and you hope that they stop being the dominant force in filmmaking It could be a double win but of course Chris is like, oh god the theaters, it's like I don't think that's... One thing that will be curious is how Dune 2 is going to do That'll be interesting I think that's a really difficult one to predict exactly how well it'll go That's really bad for movie theaters If subscriber numbers for streaming services are also going down and every streaming service Man, subscribers for streaming services going down, viewership and engagement with theaters going down physical media going down Could it be that we need better shit coming out? No It's all effort so it's all good-ish I mean, does it sound reasonable that the engagement with media will at least be somewhat correlative with the average quality of the media? That's crazy talk But there's also just the natural fact certainly with streaming service numbers of the emergence of competition just on the list there let's assume it's like an even $10 a month that's Apple TV, ESPN Paramount Plus, Peacock, Disney Plus, Netflix and Max No one has that much money to spend on every single one of those the more of those that appear during this growth phase in streaming because it's kind of like the end of the growth phase in streaming but you've had this proliferation of streaming services and people are now going to start making decisions about which one offers the most amount of content for the amount of money I am willing to spend and that will probably mean at some point they will start leaving the other subscription services combined with the general cost of living which means people have less money to spend generally on this kind of thing you will see a contraction in the overall number of people that will lead to a consolidation in a streaming service which could theoretically see that graph tick up for two of those and then the others will cease to exist again but that's not necessarily bad or good either way for film that's just the economics of streaming and we haven't really seen yet exactly how that will pan out And it's worse than just normal competition because each one negatively impacts the others by taking away content that could have been on those and so you might end up in a position where none of them are enough value for money for the customer so they don't go for any of them like if Spotify didn't have all music it just had half no one would bother just keeps upping their prices and adding ad plans and all kinds of things that make less people want to watch and movies are being dumped on these streaming services that you never knew existed that had no publicity and has already discovered I will say as much as I agree that that is true all the films that come out and a lot of them do come out and you're like what the fuck I've never even heard of this there was one, it was on Fringy Stream and they said we've got to check it out at some point but we were looking at I think it was like a top 20 Anthony Hopkins list and I was curious how many of them I'd seen and at like number 17 or something correct me if I'm wrong but the summary was Anthony Hopkins is a like a puppeteer and his puppet comes alive and prevents him from dating people but the puppet keeps getting in the way of his dates and I was just like I need to see this film and I didn't know this film existed but I need to see it that one probably didn't get a $200 million no it probably did get him the Oscar unfortunately yeah see some people in chat like yeah I know that one magic 1978 it was like what apparently it's a great film yeah I got to see it Gus the exact opposite where movies and TV shows are just I think I said that Andal was great and yet no one watched it how is quality going to make things popular we also said that you need more than one hit you can't just have one yeah I'm going to do it I'm going to end with suffage from following things if Andal would come out after Rogue One it would have been fine absolutely fine even though it's not created a course or worse I think that you know if you had three seasons of Andal or the quality of season one but you add in some more Star Wars references I think that season three would be hype as fuck like people would be all behind it in fact was it like some kind of Star Wars celebration thing recently where trailers were shown because I saw someone share a quote-unquote Andal season two trailer and people were like oh here we go hopefully it doesn't get ruined I saw a comment said I hope Fullody doesn't have any involved apparently he's the big man in charge now so yeah worry Star Wars is down the shitter again probably is the big cheese we'll see that's one of the ways in which streaming probably is bad for film or just like for content in general though because I think the only thing that can really fix something like Star Wars as a brand is the cinema it does need this huge mass release thing which is incredibly popular and which can transfer a lot of that popularity to the streaming shows and yet they're spending like pretty big film budgets on TV shows that no one watches and that are crap anyway as though that's going to fix anything and then they promote the guy who's in charge of it to be in charge of all of it even though nobody watched this $100 million show but like why are you doing that as opposed to stopping planning and putting that money into a well-produced well-written good film that might theoretically rekindle people's love for a dying franchise but streaming service is allowing to do that crazy idea yeah the desire of we need to get so much content on Disney plus to fuel that growth and now maybe we need to start thinking about what we're actually doing isn't this so funny that we've all accepted that we were in a part of like a decade era of just yeah fuck it it's like maybe we shouldn't say fuck it look at what they've got they're losing money on every single thing everything yeah that's the funniest result though phase four and five what do we make money on a movie that doesn't belong to us in a movie where the creators gone to a competition it's like I mean well and then of course Disney broadly that only that only film that could truly be called successful is Guardians 3 which again he's now going over to Warner Brothers but every other film is either man it might have just scraped past break even or it lost hundreds of millions of dollars yeah just make some smaller movies I mean again 100 years yeah just make some you can do all the things on your network and do Disney plus or whatever and just take those big franchises franchises? franchises make smaller movies make like a courtroom drama that's like smaller scale don't have a fucking wormhole explode in the universe I don't really mention EFAP but I mean for you to watch the verdict that film kicks ass yeah that's amazing really good I mean when we do these EFAP TV's or whatever like how many times do we like just ball some weird ideas it's like oh that could be kind of funny like hey let's follow this weird alien that doesn't even talk our language and see what he's up to and then follow around another thing or just small stuff experiment doesn't even need to cost a lot well yeah instead of spending an unreasonable amount of money on your project it's like 250 million dollars yeah focus on like random normal human being that has to fuck around with all the super humans that are around it's like oh shit my car got destroyed because some super human fruit and enemy and mist or whatever I don't know should probably move away from using the word experiment because at this point spending 250 million on what they did for secret invasion secret yeah I'd be like that's a fucking experiment why the hell do you think that's kind of a small scale experiment it's hard to believe small scale looking at Joker is like that's a safe experiment yeah I should probably say try something cheap try something smaller scale with your stories for example imagine being in the fucking screening room watching all the secret invasion being told how much they spent on it you'd be like are you guys fucking insane where did all the money go what the hell is this I want to see it whenever the camera like goes to a new scene whenever we leave one scene go to another you just get that at the bottom and it shows how much money the last scene cost oh my god I'm still hoping someone I'm still hoping someone will make a documentary on like where the money went with rings of power like when all of us have settled on that I'm dying dying to know tell us the truth well new and early look nice so I don't know how they didn't learn any because Joker and Deadpool both cost about 50 million dollars and made massive returns why would no lessons learn from that maybe like experiment with something that's lesser known with less money and a lower scope story and then see how it does make it good budgets are going to have to come down oh yeah they're on their way down first thing you can't be spending you can't be spending 200 million dollars and then making 40 million dollars opening weekend that's unacceptable imagine this insane universe this wouldn't happen but imagine they actually did get the right people making blades and they get the right things in the right place and they only and I say this funny way they only have 50 million to work with and then there's like a moment where they need to get this huge awesome thing happening and they just it's just out of the budget and they're like no can't do that and then you look back and you think you spent fucking four times our budget on that quantum bullshit and we we're making like this amazing you can't you can't give us and it's like no and it's like that's gonna be it that's gonna be the realization now everything will tighten up and they might get people in that they can rely upon to make something good and they'll know it's like yeah we probably should have fucking done that when we had infinite ballooning budgets because then it could have actually done something with it but that also would have been a way better business strategy of give somebody a budget which is like reasonable and not massive and then if they do come up with an idea that they just need more be like okay we'll pay for that extra for that scene and it won't go too much I think what happens when you have 270 million kids with an allowance like anyone who's worked in corporate people spend the budget even if they waste the budget because you've got the budget and I think that's what happens with how can we spend this and if only if they cap a 200 and they cap them 180 so that then but even then you should yes if you would just make up your mind ahead of time and iron out the script and get it where you want it before you even start production then you wouldn't have to reshoot every project you make and it also goes goes ahead for everyone involved going like above and beyond and doing shit like I know that Iron Man one example for example they're like oh you want like an Iron Man suit we can make it with like actual person in there and they're like nah you can't make that and they just did it and so basically surprised them when they finally showed up with the stuntman inside and they were like oh shit that's really cool and looks amazing so I guess the people who made this like cared that passion what? Insistent commentary from a lot of the film well creative industries is just tighter budgets and budgets that can't possibly be enough to make the thing you want end up breeding like really interesting shortcuts that can revolutionize technology sometimes just deleted from the streaming services and no longer exist and some stores are choosing not to sell physical media anymore what exactly is happening to this art form that we all know and love so much is it truly just becoming a bunch of numbers somewhere he was always making money you can't talk about I fucking hate this so much because he keeps talking about oh what's the cause like the movies are bad you can't talk about this but I'm talking about the writing of the movie and how shit they are and the people don't care anymore to go watch the movies well I got a big sense that he's like you even brought back the point about physical media again and it's like yeah so where we going what's the point and then he says like is our fate this you know Chris make a point like can you focus like I really don't know how he's trying to draw this together what is he trying to say give me something I'm very passionate about this and normally I would laugh right now you don't come across that way you know you don't come across as passionate about anything I would like to know of deprecating but I don't think that I should I really do think this is a big problem and the only what is all of those things or like what those things mean or where it's going the way that I can foresee it being fixed is if we do for a lot of movies what we did for Barbie and Oppenheimer and obviously that was not something you can't just that's natural it doesn't happen because everyone told each other to do it because the whole thing with Oppenheimer was oh we have this crazy fun pink movie that's funny and this Oppenheimer serious kind of things like wouldn't it be hilarious if we just combine them into a thing we do this big movement already do what he's talking about it's called marketing yes there's a huge budget for it the fact that he's like you know what made barbenheimer work was everyone saying barbenheimer go watch barbenheimers like what do you think marketing budgets are for they find out what makes people watch films outside of just the films existing and then they like those things happen the marvels marketing budget included look at cats cats you like cats cats are in the film you like cats go watch them because of cats cats everyone talk about having already tried that innovative approach in the final trailer when like the first half of the trailer featured characters not appearing in the film that was pretty good I like the marvels I remember people bringing up the poor patrol and soul coming out at the same time and we should start a thing called soul patrol it didn't go anywhere no one cared and it's just like Chris is that what you want like we just start trying to make up dumb things and just hope that they artificially catch on the owners of marketing on the consumer instead of the companies that are going to profit from the output of that marketing you know what I mean like making it like a moral imperative that people have to just go out and gamble their money to watch any number of movies to ensure that these massive multi-billion dollar corporations survive well yeah the big question is should we they fucking die should we have done this for the marvels Chris should we have been like yeah the marvels yeah imperative to save cinemas that already has to go and see the marvels and spend their money and buy popcorn and buy drinks because that's where they make a lot more money than on the films themselves it's just that's never going to work you can't pitch that to the world that it is a moral imperative to like go out of your way to make sure that you support these massive multi-billion dollar corporations the much easier straightforward simple way that generally you know this world works is that when you make something that people like they'll buy it so then and then it's like well how do we fix our problem well just make more good movies and people will go and watch them yeah because he's obviously not going to see there are certain movies you shouldn't do this for and you're like which ones are those Chris and he'd be like well you know non-cinema ones he'd be like well there is no substitute for good word of mouth and the only way to get good of word of mouth is to make good movies that people like and tell their friends about you can't you can't fake it you can't buy it that's how you get top gun maverick and that's how you get puss in boots the last wish also barbie I'd say barbie is another probably quite a good example because the barbenheim thing was an incredibly great marketing meme that happened but barbie wouldn't have got to a billion I don't think if it hadn't also given its target audience pretty much what they wanted from it to keep them going well yeah I don't pretend to understand barbie's target audience but I understand they exist so what's the fucking wish polio wish polio Napoleon Napoleon that's not to just reward every movie that comes out which one but I do think that a retooling of our approach to seeing movies needs to happen what do you mean retool why are you putting this on me that's not my fucking thing it's not my fucking thing how you blame this on me mister when he's saying well we don't need to support every movie but like wouldn't that invariably happen if you encourage an approach of just like going to more movies even once you kind of anticipate that you're not going to like to get confirmed that you don't like it as well he doesn't want to support shit movies the thing is how do you how does the market come to understand what kind of movies people want to see if just movies in general people are just going to movies in general and then spending their money on it wouldn't it just lead to like a problem where nobody understands what anybody wants and people are just engaging in an activity that is yielding not consistently great results for them as a viewer yeah but when he's well when he says retooling does he mean like embrace his attitude of just imagine everything is good and don't dislike anything fuck that the thing he says that people should go more and take more chances but again it's expense it costs money yeah why should they have to do that on behalf of these instead what the better system is the one that we actually have where people look to a lot of people like critics to recommendations someone like a drinker for example and then they go should I see the new Marvel movie and drinkers as fuck no and you go what about the next one fuck no next one fuck no you're like damn what should I see and he goes go see extraction to and it's like where is that it's like Netflix like oh oh I guess I'm gonna watch that on that and you be like oh that's so horrible the theaters it's like why are you making fucking good movies exactly it's funny how it just always comes back to just make fucking good movies that is the ultimate solution the boring fucking solution they want to tell their friends about good movies yeah I know that not everybody can always go to a movie I know that not everybody can nobody wants to go to a movie watch a shit movie theater yeah by the way that's the other aspect if you watch a shit movie on Netflix you'd be like well fuck this I'm out by the way how is how is it a fucking chore to keep up with the marvels and everything but I should go watch every fucking random movie out there isn't that also chore that's also very expensive that would absolutely be a chore to see everything and hope that it's good it's as was pointed out drag myself there to watch movies I don't want to watch you know that time that's gone forever you know that time is it's evaporated and you could have spent it doing something else you could have spent to playing video games you could have spent it going out to dinner or something you could have spent it saved it up for going on a holiday these are all these trades that people need to make and it's a lot more difficult to go to a theater and do that because you got the travel time the preparation and you know getting ready and presentable hopefully then we've talked about this on that other stream a lot of people they carve out a small amount of time for film and they rely on recommendations and unfortunately there's not a lot of recommendations for a lot of films coming out that are high budget right now this is Chris Duckman's protein and urine image I think protein and urine protein and urine the chat that's the e-fab payment I've seen so many memes about protein and urine it's hilarious that end XYZ is my only joy in life dude when the stream when the boogie stream ended it went unlisted for just like half an hour someone had already done the meme of like watching e-fab is the only joy in my life and so we put a comment underneath it being like that's sad man like someone who watched e-fab they didn't know the memes so they just saw that we're like oh jeez why is it in your life I guess I am blu-ray for everything that comes out I'm well aware I don't even buy as many blu-rays as I used to but I don't why tell us why Chris so you're part of the problem I'm already edging toward the fact that it's like is it because there's less good things for you to buy every day that are coming up maybe you don't want to get the blu-ray for all of the MCU where you may have before man it's just worth thinking about that you know for the amount that it would cost you to like go watch the marvels you could get like you know there's a steam cell going on right now it's like you can buy someone's steam that's gonna give you more than one and a half hours of entertainment potentially and like there's so many different things game pass as much as a movie and that's like however many games that you want pretty much they're not just competing against movies movies are competing against games TV shows and of course they're competing against groceries they're competing against electricity you could argue that theaters compete as a hobby or a pastime and the further in time we go on the more there are things to do in the world and so you know we were talking about it earlier but what is the number it settles at what is the correct number it sells at where is it artificially going down or up and it's like oh isn't it just what it is I mean I guess it depends on whether or not you think that there should be like massive market intervention or something that's kind of the problem isn't it if they were that would all be artificial oh it's just how could you justify that money on other things you know and I just I don't know I feel I feel very hollow about like you know we need to save them because not enough people are invested in doing the thing and it's like but if they're not invested in doing it you know it's dot dot dot I mean you can use the same argument against like the horse and cart like we need to force people to do a horse and cart because think of all those stable owners that are going out of business because people don't want to use a horse and cart anymore it becomes niche niche of niche of niche you know like it's like it still exists if you want to get a horse and cart and drive around there's probably some places on earth you could still do that and it's not like theaters are going to become so sparse that there's one per country or something ridiculous but major like you know it's a sad thing to note that it reduced in size for people who love going to theaters but at the same time it's like maybe they were artificially higher than they should have been or maybe they were higher because we're having a higher film and they'll go back up when we have another higher film it's hard to say North Korea where once a week the entire population of my town is being frogmashed into the local cinema to support the film I worry about you've been this month doesn't it feel that way though that his solutions are like you know we need to have some more barbenheimers but I'm not saying support films that are shit not supporting all films not buying blu-rays for all film it's like what are you saying what do you want us to do who knows space forward anymore now that I have twin boys and I also know that you can't always make it to a movie as I said I have twin boys so what do you want Chris tell me please yeah what do you want Chris I have to I was just gonna say I have to jump off so please let me know if cinema is kill or not so I know whether I need therapy and I'll talk to you guys later bye bye thanks for having me guys dude I mean at the moment it just seems like he's going through a midlife crisis and he's looking around his room and just thought I don't want any of this shit anymore like I said that he just made a video about it Martin Scorsese said cinema is kill and he's having a panic that's why he made this video movie as I said I have twin boys if I go to a theater it's usually like the 10 30 p.m. showing after they go to bed that's when I can find time for that right now as I film this it's like 11 does it at all feel like you made a statement and then he's made about seven concessions after as to why the statement probably isn't very fair yeah and it's like so what's the new statement for us with all of this stuff of just life obligations and on top that they're just not that interested in movies like they're not that interested they're not that passionate about movies they're more interested in other stuff someone probably said it earlier already not everybody watches a lot of movies they go like to some movies or just do something on the television or watch some YouTube or I don't know what they do browse Facebook or whatever I think this can happen with us in this sort of sector of YouTube as well but we can get caught up in the idea that most people have an hour level or a little bit lower of investment in film which is like that's just not true not even close I mean I have some friends I'm more of a TV guy always having well even with TV, even with games there are people out there who like all of those forms of media but spend a lot of their time maybe with sport for example that might be what's important yeah they have a lot of interests or their investment is you know passing casual or it's chill that's funny but there's also a section where they go to all the big movies like almost every month like multiple times a month more than I do and it's like oh but they all enjoy them but when we talk about them it's like oh that was good it's like the thing where the one guy in the group is like no they were all trash I think last time they were around they talked about some movies and it's like oh that was trash oh what about this it's also trash oh but Mandalorian it's like no someone even just suggested nature some people go outside that's true you could spend days outside I've heard that some people have done that some people have some people really enjoy it some of us really miss it clock at night because my kids went to bed and I now have time to do it so I don't want to sit here and look like I'm someone who's trying to encourage people to change their lives around to support film but I do think that we need to change the way we view it because at the end of the day we need to change the way we view it no when so just because something is I something it's almost like how do you want to tackle this attitude it's like completely backwards like we have a responsibility to an industry when it's the other way around they need to be making good films that's what solves everything you're trying to earn my money and my attention and my respect it's not just given to them it's not just something that they're owed like oh you make by the way this is like the idea of an industry it's not like a specific person a specific company a specific anything it's just film makers those who make films and contribute to the making of films you need to go and give them money because if you don't then or whatever and I'm like well I mean if they suck then maybe it's a good thing maybe we need to shake up maybe Disney or whoever these companies are maybe a big ol needs to happen so that we can the phoenix can rise from the ashes yeah we've got plenty of stuff to watch in the meantime if it takes if there was just like a collapse of the whole industry and movies weren't made for three years most of us have a lot of catching up to do oh yeah I have enough catching up to do for this year already I think there is one thing that all of us can agree on not everyone's going to agree with Martin Sporsese in his comments not everyone's going to agree that the MCU movies and shows are going downhill a lot of people like what they're seeing and not even he was like a lot of people like alright be careful now it just reminds me of um like I remember the kitchen nightmares where it's just like you know a lot of people like our food that Gordon Rebs just like well where are they then where are they oh yes remember that where are they then it's so fitting it's just yeah the point that he would make is that he knows that he's doing something right because his reservation book is full conversely as much as you can say well customers tell me they really like it it's like yeah cool story bro where are they like if they're not here that's way more telling where are they where are they a lot of people are like what they're seeing and not everyone cares about going to a movie theater there's really annoying people sometimes with cell phones and people are like oh my god you've made like 15 concessions now we're just like these reasons why this the world is the way that it is however loud and it's not always the best experience and some people can't go to a movie theater maybe they physically cannot get out of their house to go to a movie theater yeah boogie will boogie can do it they can do it yeah it's a different I thought you was going to point to that if you live in like a rural area you might actually have to drive like 30 40 kilometers to get to a movie theater maybe that is the case like in rural areas will be like you have to go to original city to go to a movie theater if you're just in like your little town maybe it has a theater maybe but a lot of them don't fat people are killing theaters baby go to the gym to support theater I'll agree on is that as film lovers as people who appreciate movies who want to either make them or just love watching them we would like to watch good ones yes he's done it but I feel like like I don't know what all of that was for just to say that but now you get the question of as opposed to what because he said that he can't be negative anymore well yeah you'll never he's not allowed to say I guess this feels like a breakthrough but I'm not sure what he's going to say next ones we want to see good movies we want to be transported to another world we want to feel like we've just experienced something that changes us in some way or that hit us in the emotions made us feel something or that was just a great time we want to be scared we want to laugh we want to watch those emotions and we want to have variety we want to be able to why just spider-man I really don't think this is a good image for variety it's a still picture it's a still picture it's a superhero it's not the whole problem we have he's not even doing anything emotional he's just there is that like a promote did you just google spider-man and that was one that you saw he could have chosen because not only is it like superhero as fuck but spider-man is everywhere there's loads of spider-man he's like variety he's like the only superhero thing that can succeed right now to watch good movies we want to be able to watch a superhero movie but also watch a courtroom drama oh my god fracture that's neat I like fracture I like that movie it's a character study about someone who's dealing with some psychological issue and that's how it used to be he used to get all of that I do think that in general streaming is to blame and this year with the strikes in general streaming is to blame no it's the it's like the variety of the films being made it depends what we're talking about I mean can it really be said that there isn't like a variety of films that have been made on like Netflix for instance you know it's a streaming service that there's a lack of variety in terms of the kinds of films that they're making they produce psychological thrillers we were talking about we went through an era of just everything being okayed and then flushed onto these sites and he's saying that was part of the problem he was highlighting a lot of those films will be these kinds of options you know like well in the killer it's a Netflix movie and that's like a psychological thriller there was a Netflix horror movie that I caught by chance I think I described it to you when I checked it out but I think it's called The Deep or something and it's two divers go down to a house to try and get you know money basically just to loot it because it's deep underwater and then like the basement's locked and so they're there with their tanks and stuff they have I think enough for like a day and there's just weird things happening like you know shadows things moving and stuff and they get down to the basement they find like a satanic sort of like sacrifice that was done down there and then you know the windows gradually start developing bars and the doors start locking and stuff and it's just like that's a fucking where was the last time I watched a movie like that it's like yeah that's just odd Netflix that's there someone paid to have that made you know that is the argument for streaming is that streaming has a permanent collection a permanently shifting collection with way more variety than you can get from any other single investment in content so that's kind of the point so if the problem is simultaneously that we need to change how we view films but also we need to be given more variety of films and we're not because streaming is that the argument we've had so far maybe his argument is that the films that formerly would be in theaters now only exist on streaming but he didn't say that so I feel like I'm just inventing that argument for him but those films wouldn't exist because it's the streamers that pay for those movies to be made in the first place yeah that's why it's confused like there needs to be more clarity on the point here I think what he said is something that people intuitively agree with like films used to be better more variety but it's not just it's more successful forms of variety which to be fair we've got like is it open Bobby Heimer is like a you know Bobby Heimer I think it's just a variety between those two there's some big variety there by the way I just wanted to clarify some people were like oh what's that movie called I was like I was using it as an example I didn't think it was good I'm sorry you got excited there it was not happy with the writing in that but the idea you know the genre the variety of the concept fucking debated us well I mean of course you know like has there ever really been the kind of shows that Flanagan makes before he was making those shows on Netflix you know one could argue Netflix is the reason the horror shows we got many things that and Chris adores Flanagan's work so yeah like in fact yeah the more that I'm thinking about it the more I'm like wait a minute hasn't like I mean big budget like television as a thing has been in large part a consequence of streaming other than HBO sorry I'm sneezing yeah and the moment you take like television off streaming like Netflix has loads of Korean shows which are awesome which I never would have got over here without streaming no that's right there was never a market on like NBC for the one piece you know live action adaptation that's on Netflix that would never have been created on like Fox or ABC or NBC or CBS like that's you know what I mean so if anything you could say streaming has essentially changed in some sense the kind of stuff that's being made and the kind of stuff that is viable in part because it's a worldwide audience compared to local you know audience and then by syndication and what not I am utterly confused at his point I gotta tell you there's too many data points here that like run in all different directions this is what I mean I wish he focused his point of view but this feels more rambly I do think that in general streaming is to blame and this year with the strikes this is the first time actors and writers have ever said hey we gave you guys a decade of this weird shit where you didn't report your numbers and nobody knows how many people watched our movies and shows and we're done with that shit you guys have that's good that's a whole other thing this is where I mean you just where are we going now because yeah that's a whole other set of issues that have a whole other level of repercussions there's obviously histories for strikes there's results of the strikes now they're going to be seen going forward for the next few years of course that's a whole other set of things Chris have to pay us it is interesting though that if the creators don't have the numbers of who's watching their shows how will they know if what they made was good or bad how can they improve the age old question how do you improve when you don't want to be mean more transparent because if you look back to like the real popularity of streaming post 2010 you start to see a push towards certain kinds of movies rom-coms are almost exclusively on streaming gigantic going to that smaller films are thriving at the art house this is why a 24 is so respected they really are taking chances on strange mid now but now 24 is now transitioning into franchising right yeah he mentioned that in a second oh okay yeah projects that do reach an audience and I think and I hope that that could potentially be the next big thing because I think a lot of us are craving originality weird shit I don't believe you I don't think it's right I'm not sure about that one of the audience crave weird shit or they just crave good shit that's great for good shit good with a bit of weird I feel like it's worth bringing up because it's often forgotten about but like NCIS is still one of the most popular shows on television and it's like a pretty straightforward procedural you know like it's something we never because it seems like in a lot of these like online discussions about media we don't talk about like network television which is still relevant and I don't know man like I mean what it's kind of been pointed out before right what was the formula for television for a long time which is you know there is conflict but the conflict gets resolved in that episode overarching narrative arcs are pretty thin people kind of know what they're getting when they go into an episode of a lot of these shows and that still exists there is still a place for that and that's still fairly popular it's just that we don't think about it a lot in terms of these online discussions probably because the average age of people are watching NCIS is probably pretty old but I mean they're still participants in the marketplace they're still participating in that's another element of reliability to know that you're going to be getting a baseline amount of quality every time that's not easy to guarantee it's the point of trauma right the single female lawyer thing people don't want to be surprised people want to feel safe going into it and you know it varies people obviously have different expectations and different desires and some people have like no interest in that kind of format of storytelling but like I don't know about making this broad statement that people are interested in things that are highly original and strange because if that was the case why doesn't it reflect really in like the kinds of things that are really really successful fairly consistently throughout all of you know the last like 30 or 40 years I feel like the weird movies are the kind of things I feel like the longest running of the most successful sorry about that to you I think like the weird movies are the ones that people like every once in a while as a little thing on the side or as something I like to check out intermittently but it's not like their typical diet it's their you know it's something that's it's nice to have it around but it's not enough to be the primary thing Yeah so you look at the longest running and most successful things certainly on like British terrestrial television it's not brand new pushing boundaries type television it's so poppers the EastEnders has been going for about 60 years, Coronation Street's been going for around the same time what people like is the familiar but with the occasional refresh but they don't generally flock to like revolution for its own sake because you could argue for that from the weird point of view you could say the multiverse arc in Marvel is going to do something which is weird and I guess original it's just that it's shit because being weird and original is actually not fathomable to most of the audience because they haven't actually taken the time to make the thing work whereas if they'd refreshed the MCE rather than said we're going to blow it up with an incomprehensible multiverse I don't think we'd be currently sitting here lamenting its decline MOM and Loki season 1 and 2 and a couple of other things like absolutely would qualify as weird shit yeah you could have made it weird shit but with good Alan Lake 2 is weird you know what's not weird Robocop Rogue City it's not a weird game if you've watched Robocop it's just a direct adaptation pretty much you know what's not weird fucking FIFA like that's pretty cool and that makes money every year fucking all the MOBAs and like you know running for as long as even like dead by daylight like these like League of Legends is a little bit but even that would be like it's been going way too long to be considered weird now I guess the point being that again I don't know that there's any reason to believe that the preference for originality versus familiarity is remarkably drastically different across mediums maybe there's a little bit because video games have the benefit of being highly iterative there's way more of a reason to make a sequel to a video game than a movie for instance because like it could just be I want to expand the mechanics rather than we need a context to continue a story that ended you know the extraction so everyone's seen that before but boy was it a good one of those complicated game of seeing things that are familiar that have familiar storytelling vocabulary but have tweaks and twists and interesting turns and things that are unexpected and surprising it's complicated I don't know that there's basically the point I'm making is I don't know that I can agree with like a wholesale statement that people once originality it's a little bit more complicated than that I would say yeah everybody is I've been a ton of screenings in Cleveland packed with audiences for like weird movies and I've heard the way people talk about that already selection bias that's not that's a great anecdote but like when we look at the actual box office selection bias the people who went to see that are people who want to go see that you know what I mean like it's why would we count that it's like yeah but those people want to see the weird shit it's like okay yeah I mean Neil Breen movies can fill cinemas but the way the fucking world is going after it's complicated for general audiences but it's what these movies do with those expectations Bo was afraid to flop miserably I think it didn't I also heard that wasn't very good either yeah I haven't seen anything to do with I've only seen like that was a big ol' risk that one when I saw Bo as afraid for instance I thought that movie was so weird and I respected the hell out of it it was so well made boring tell me how you give me a thought try to be a human for five fucking seconds it was just so you know it was such a movie you know it definitely was a film that it sure do yep I he had notes for this video and I still don't know what the point of this video is well it's in the title the future of film why I'm worried there you go I feel like it's therapist did I get it not really did I need to understand why didn't you watch it five times like playrunner to get it so that you could understand it so that you have the right opinion on it yeah you should check on IMDB forget it did that scare me no it fucking is wrong who's asking these questions did you get scared because you didn't understand I remember when I watched a movie once got out of the cinema and was just terrified didn't understand and I was like I don't know what I'm gonna do now and yet tons of people skipped out on that movie because they were like I don't want to do the work of figuring that out what holy moly how do you know that wait I don't know that I take that much issue with someone saying I don't want to watch a wacky artsy film I want to watch the guy shoot a bunch of bad guys and save somewhere I'll save you time it's an allegory for depression there you go now you don't have to watch the movie I don't blame anybody that point doesn't hold for like inception for example which did incredibly well despite you know being not the easiest thing in the world to untangle and yet that didn't really seem to put off a large number of people not that everybody did put in the effort to work it out but everyone's a while when we want to watch a movie we will be like in a state of not looking for something heavy I prefer to watch something that's a little more straightforward you know and that's totally normal and fine the idea that someone said I don't want to see Bow is afraid because as far as I know it's a wacky abstract movie about things that don't really line up will make sense with a lot of interpretation and it's like really long I'm really not looking for that and I really do so I could picture someone saying that and that's totally fine the idea that he's like disdain full of a pit I feel like he forgets his claimed principles regularly it was weird because when we watched the movie a few nights ago it was between something and corpse pride and I was like I just I just want to see corpse pride I don't want to see this other one because I just kind of want to watch it just kind of chill right now and just watch a like a little you know fun claymation animated movie so I just I want to yeah I just want to enjoy myself I don't want to chill like not every because I just don't want to watch Saving Private Ryan right now I just yeah it smells if you were like I'm a little bit sleepy it's like we could either watch this hour and a half film or fucking lord the rings you're like I don't know but it's a bit the hour and a half one it's like wow you don't watch things now there's all kinds of reasons I have to stay up and watch the whole thing now I can't do that I got things to do to watch one of them are you crazy yeah be rude I don't know that movie because they were like I don't want to do the work of figuring that out and that really bothers me because a lot of us do this what I'm doing right now okay why does it bother you if somebody else doesn't want to watch a movie that's like I can't believe you're saying this I feel like I'm supposed to be more picky it's super complicated film I've hit a friend there's loads of sub tags rewatching it there's three different timelines like I'm just not I don't want to watch a movie like that alright fine you can't blame them sometimes it's just like yeah sometimes I just want to listen to a nice chill sometimes it this happens with games all the time maybe not all the time do I want to sit down and play a super intense in-depth thing I just want to have a chill experience so we just pointed it out he didn't do it for the marvels he didn't he said he didn't know what the marvels was about and he was just like oh damn man that really bothers me actually I guess I guess the up he has on the other guys that he still went and saw the marvels even though he didn't get it it must have to be like his friend though because his friend comes around and says so I'm feeling really kind of down and depressed and miserable and I just want to be cheered up and he says well I'm going to judge you if you don't want to watch Schindler's list with me right now oh god watch Schindler's list and you will enjoy it otherwise you're not my friend anymore in the mood well because by the way I haven't seen Bo's afraid and I don't know that I want to with how it's been described I don't care nobody I know has recommended it and from what I know it's a long laborious sort of difficult to decipher film and I'm just like okay I could spend that time watching something else yeah I just doesn't that doesn't sound like the kind of movie that I am interested in or really want to watch you know maybe every once in a while if I hear like that kind of movie if everyone says you're really good and you need to see it that's one thing but I just I don't like taking chances with A24 I will say this is the most interesting he's ever been to me the fact that he's like someone said they didn't want to watch Bo's afraid and fucking hate that shit it's like oh shit okay more of this more of your character emotion a bit of humanity shining through in front of our cameras we make a youtube video or we write articles or we blog we write for a paper whatever are you showing are you showing that's just a current movie as the footage took the footage from it I don't know it's weird it's just it's what you do it's the it's like the AI generated wake people up if they're fully asleep like oh Marvel's who and we ask Hollywood to not do what the MCU is currently doing we say please stop doing that please like okay make more original making shit making shit what did he phrase it as be better make more shit better you gotta do better Disney you gotta do better stuckman hold on I don't understand any of that okay wait I'm rolling back I'm lost no they didn't just want something original and new they wanted something good it can't just be different it has to be good as well hold on I don't understand any of that that was weird why did you watch that why was there a big old penis in the attic Beau is afraid is a big example for me it did not do well at the box office as I predicted in my review as everybody would have predicted if you found out what this film was and how much it fucking costs it's obvious it was not going to be able to make the buddy back and just recently a 24 announced that they would try to start making some slightly mainstream stuff along with some of their more ground brown numbers now crazy no it's an interesting development that they would acknowledge that they need to make slightly more crowd friendly money exactly you mean like how it's always worked so it turns out you need money to make things that cost money if you want to make things that niche audiences enjoy you have to make stuff bigger audiences enjoy first every major film studio basically has some art house wing it's searched like you know it's a fox that where it's like yeah we'll make the big movies and then we've got the small movies that we can finance with the money we make from the big movies it's just normal happening for decades great because we didn't pay for it you know I mean you got Martin Scorsese we did people to watch this movie this fucking legend sitting with a guy make a point I beg you please you keep talking about it's just gonna it's just gonna be Scorsese said you go watch it and you didn't know what he did yeah you didn't trust cinema in the form of a man yeah cinema's kill fuck oh my god guy who's made three movies and he got walking phoenix coming off of his academy award win for the Joker which is one of the most iconic characters ever it just seems like it should thank you for telling me yeah doesn't mean it's gonna be a banger automatically oh my god this is the world we live in man people it's not it's not afraid to be what the fuck you said people wanted original things yeah but they're afraid to be challenged okay that is so not the problem at all not even close afraid to be challenged boom it's such a stupid conclusion why would you even come to that I've seen movies you idiots people are afraid to be challenged unlike me I am a filthman I at my level then cinema wouldn't be dying and you'd all realize how amazing these movies actually were yeah it's just filmbo was afraid that I admitted I didn't even understand he didn't understand at least he wasn't afraid he wasn't afraid yeah that's the important part he wasn't afraid he took it chin up and he just went for it and that's the problem with you chat you're all afraid to be challenged yeah chat what the fuck chat you're you gotta do better pussies you're the reason that cinema is still you killed him he's bleeding he's coughing up blood of course cinema and people are afraid to be challenged we want easy we want simple dude you like how he just randomly pulls out some of the most insulting shit just random you know what your problem is audience he's such a good filmman I won't show him film makers anymore all the happily shit on the audience you plebs you fools you don't want to be challenged you want to clap like seals you want to I love you there's like a fucking movie where a guy is like I love family and then it starts raining and he's like I need umbrella and then gets it it's the credits and we're like man that was a great movie really related with honky he needed to protect that family then Chris is like shouting he's like you won't be challenged look at you you made a whole video about how to save cinema and it turns out his tactic is shame that's what he thinks the films we don't watch are already trying to shame us we've been inoculated against this Chris it turns out you can't actually shame people into going to watch movies we talk about all those different things people think the problem is Chris stuck by the things that everyone's too scared to watch movies they don't understand that's why they didn't go watch the marvel it was a very challenging movie that was a tough one well Chris didn't know what it was about even the films don't even know what's going on even the champion of cinema Montesco says he went and saw it and he didn't know what was going on either he was like wow now that is cinema and you don't know what's happening maybe he didn't wear a seatbelt someone just highlighted like everything ever all at once no one's going to call that a fucking simple movie no that would be what you would point to in terms of a kind of surprise success of being a very complex weird kind of movie I guess people got over this their fear of challenge with that one lucky maybe it's got nothing to do with that at all how dare you we want easy we want simple we want to be able to look up the movie it feels like he said what we said earlier but in a way worse way we want to have some kind of consistency story lines that cover a lot of the same drama that you've seen before but at least in ways that have a bit of spice to it mix up or a sub version here and then his version is like you want simple, you won't be challenge you're afraid he's modelizing like an art related villain and that's why I destroyed all the directors in the world that's why I killed them all because they wouldn't challenge you this is actually reminding me He's a scored artist who then decides to become an art based super villain. El Cinemarro. I can't remember what his name was. Well, he was French. The guy, but I can't remember his name. Someone in chat might remember. Cinemarro Beto? Light two. Oh, what was his name? Like a team up. Oh, you make tree. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Have it explain to us instantly the friend. I used to make explain videos. Man, the playgroup of games is so fucking cool. I stopped. There didn't used to be a thou. Wait, what? He used to make explain videos and he stopped. I know why. What does that even mean? I don't know. It's a fucking hate explain video is not because of in concept. I love the idea of them. They can be helpful, but man, the amount of explain videos I've watched that take the first 99% of the video to just recap events. That drives me now. This is what happened, but they don't explain anything. They just describe the events. Oh my God, it's the absolute worst. Like, where was the insight? You just told me that you just maybe watched it. And then you realize, oh, I saw the thing. That's the actual industry for that on YouTube. It is the it replaces the film for a lot of people. They just watched the summaries of the plot events and that's that. That's like a whole thing. I don't know if you guys have seen channels with all the title will be the sort of horror premise or the drama premise of the film. And then the video is just with clips, just doing the it's like the. Oh, yeah, that's that. That's a thing that's prevalent for some reason. I hate it. It bothers me. It does bother me. And to have it explained to us instantly. I used to make explained videos. I stopped because it didn't used to be a thousand explained videos on the end. You pioneered the format. Did you? What is it? But why did he stop? Tell me? Tell me why. Like I was one of the few people who did it back. Oh, shut the fuck up. So when you were the few people that did it was successful, but then other people came along, did it better than you? And you stopped because everyone's just a cheap imitation of this. So true. To me, he's a cheap imitation of nostalgia critic. That's the real king. That's true. And I have way more respect for nostalgia critic than Chris Duckman. Dangerously translating into us just being afraid to watch. Dangerously. Please stop saying we're afraid. Please. I beg you. We are. We are. We are. We are. I'm going to throw up here in a second. He's like, he's standing there going, give me money. You're like, no. He's like, yeah, you coward. If you were to give me money, you coward. You don't have to be challenged by fucking darn bed. Why are you scared? You don't kind of food your groceries anymore. Coward. Thinking to us just being afraid to watch anything that might. This is just a pin-dome video that we're not instantly aware of that we have to really think about a little. Yeah, that's what it is. I hope that we can find a place for this. I think the next time a friend is going to ask me to go to a movie, I'm just going to like, no, I'm scared. I don't want to. How can you possibly reconcile this? Don't challenge me. I'm afraid to challenge me. How can you possibly reconcile this alongside the full of the MCU? Like, is he actually arguing that the reason the MCU is dying is because it's too experimental? No, the problem is that he's got, it has been pointed out many times. There was no coherency to this script. This is just a bunch of disparate thoughts about the state of the industry that fundamentally are contradictory in certain ways that haven't been reconciled. It's just, here's a thought, here's a thought, here's a thought, latching onto each of them with no clear idea of where he's heading. Because, yeah, how do you square away that Marvel movies are failing is the notion that those films are not challenging for the most part. Anyway, this runs contrary to what he's saying here, but he doesn't seem to realize that probably because, again, it's like, yeah, I'm just latching onto these thoughts. They're all over the place. Yep. Okay, video done. Cool. Ship it. Yep. Oh, good. My work here is done. And he makes it sound like if only they would watch them, right? Like, if only they would watch. And it's like, well, people did check out Bo's afraid and it fucking died because nobody recommended it. Meanwhile, people did check out everything ever all at once. They did recommend it. Incredible blood and mouth. Yeah. And then it would be good. And then it was massive success. But I guess last wish is just not challenging and that's why. Oh, well, yeah, I mean, that's a good example to point to. For an animated film that's designed for families, you know, designed knowing that you're going to watch it. That's a family film. That movie was so fucking good. That's always so fucking good. It's an excellent movie. Mm-hmm. One of my favorite. I mean, it's that mortality in a film that's going to be watched by kids. Oh, that's what a great movie. That's a really challenging movie. Yeah. Of stuff. And no, I do not think it's just dumping them on streaming. But I am very you. You were the one that you brought that up. It was you. You wasn't either one that said that that was part of the problem, whatever. Yeah. Curious to hear your guys' thoughts on all of this. I don't. You're not going to give me your thoughts. You're not going to give me your thoughts. You don't. Hey, you don't. You come on. I do really love this art form. And I love. Yes, you need to keep. You said that so many times. He has to keep. I trust you. I trust you. Sort of. Please. I try to see everything. There are so many movies. I try to see everything. But you can't because there's too much mobile content now. It's filled up the whole world. Damn it. The release one episode a week. It's just up ghost in the shell this week. It was re-released in theaters. And I got to see that in the theater, which is why don't you. Why don't you talk about that? Did it sound like he said that I don't get the time free. He's too busy talking about how cinema is kill. Wait, what is he reviewing though? What are the movies that he's typically reviewing at the moment? Because I'm going to go ahead and guess that they're all recent releases for the most part. Oh, no, there's a couple of old ones. E.T. and Silence of the Lands. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah, but how long are those? Like, how much are they going to do to actually convince me to go watch them? The E.T. one is 17 minutes. But Silence of the Lands. Man, talking about Silence of the Lands in only seven minutes and 33 seconds. His Hill House review was five minutes. That's true. It's a season. His Hill House review was only seven minutes. He could talk about it. I thought he loves those planning and things. Yeah, but he hasn't got much to say about them though. How do you can, how do you only talk? I'm fucking retarded and I can talk longer than this. It's okay if you say a lot, but like a huge portion of his review will be, you know, like, because a review begins with, oh, this is a film and it was directed by this person and written by this person starring in this class. Like, yep, cool, cool. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. But no, it's just, you know. Meg Ryan's directorial movie with David DeCovne. What Happens Later. I went and saw that anime film. Everything that happened is like a goodbyes. I went and saw Anatomy of a Fall. What does this have to do with anything? Yeah, like, what is he having to do with the broad point though? He's doing his part. He's doing his part. He's setting an example to all of us to follow. He goes, he's not afraid. But that hasn't addressed all the points he's way of living. That has no sort of points that he brought up. No, this is good for building credibility because, look, I watched some animes. I watched a film you haven't heard of. I, oh God, rated R, too. What I'm trying to highlight here is that he brought up loads of reasons for why people aren't doing this. And then he's like, but I'm doing it. Like, that doesn't change anything. Yeah, but this is your life. This is your job. And that's the other problem with this is that, like, he's a very unique individual, uniquely poised to do this, uniquely invested, has all the, you know, he's developing connections. He has all the awareness. He knows who to look to for recommendations for information about releases. You're a very, very, you know, minor fraction of a, minor fraction of a, minor fraction of a people that can even do this with ease. It'll be like, why does anybody, why do people not get into like fine dining? Like, it's easy. You just need to get a couple of books, tools and, you know, kitchen stuff. Why don't people just get into white water rafting, you know? Like, just get out there. Yeah, it's like an hour per day if you get it right. Like, it's just like, why are people into running a marathon every weekend? You know, like, it's really easy. You're around the place. Yeah. People have different interests. Not everybody is that interested. It's like, yeah, but cinema is going to die if you don't do this. And you're like, all right. All right. That would be bad. I guess that's the thing you have to imagine. The person who's not going to the fucking theaters, telling them the theaters are going to close. They're like, oh. And then they might say like, well, I'd like them to stay open for the people who want them. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if cinemas die, which they won't, because people will always want movies. Movies will just be a thing people want. And if it has to downsize a little bit before it comes back or who knows? I mean, maybe if a lot of people don't want it, maybe it just isn't that big of a thing. I saw a next goal wins. I saw the Marsh kids. Good for you, man. Nobody else did. Oh, what does that mean? Were they afraid again? Probably. Are they afraid like Boas? Do they too afraid to see Boas afraid? Oh my God. I guess at the end of the day, I just wanted to make sure that I said something about all this. You didn't say anything, except that the audience is too scared, which is a really weird takeaway things. Because I really have a bad feeling. It's a bad omen. Don't you get it? I've got to tell you it's so ironic because we come away more hopeful with the box office stuff. I'm way more hopeful. Yeah. The Marvel was failing. That's like all the hero films. Let him burn. Let it burn to the ground and let something rise from the ashes. Exactly. Like a Phoenix. But not Dark Phoenix. Like a better movie than that. Something. Anything. The glorious Phoenix rising from the ashes. For this art form that I love, I've just finally made my first movie and it is a real goal of mine to make original movies. There's just so many topics that all relate to one central thing, which is a fear of the future for the... Braggs, I wouldn't know because I'd be too afraid to watch his movie. You don't want to be challenged. I understand. No. No. This is just a pre-emptive blaming of the audience for the fact that no one will go and see his film. But at least now he's established that it's our fault we're not going to see his film and not his. I guarantee you the comment section is filled with just everybody's own takes and then that they agree with Chris. You know what I mean? Like nobody's... We threw out so many disparate arguments that you got to latch onto one of them, right? There'll be one of them that you probably agree with. Well, the crazy thing is I think that's the whole video. I heard about this video thanks to it trending. You got on to trending with this and I was like, what the fuck do people take away from this? And you're like, oh, it's one of those videos where you take away whatever you want. Just kind of ramble on and say some words and then everyone does the work in their own heads and then they walk away and say, yeah, the thing that I thought about is definitely the thing that I watched. Art form. And I'm worried about movie theaters. I'm worried about physical media. I'm concerned about movies and TV shows disappearing off of streaming platforms. Yeah, you said all that. You just worried about really things. You didn't really sew it into some kind of point though. You just sort of said bad omens and that's it because you've got no insight, nothing. Well, this just seemed virtue signaling. He's like, oh, all these people are going to lose their jobs. I'm so worried for everybody. If only we could get together and save them. It's like, well, you're just like the parity in our business. And taking a very, very one-sided and narrow view of every event that he's gone through, it's like there's art that's been taken away from people to be able to see. Like, oh, bad. There's physical media that used to be there and it's no longer there. Yeah, bad. This theater that used to be there and are no longer there. Yeah, that's bad. These are bad omens. You're like, do you want to go into depth on any of these things? You want to see if they connect at all? Do you think there's a common cause or solution? Are they symptoms or are they cold problems? Anything? And he's just like, bad. Bad omens. Bad feelings. Studios, gratefully, just one studio, WB, that is just straight up erasing movies before they're even released and they're done already and everyone worked on them. And it's, do you see how he describes all of it? Like, there's no reason to do it. Yeah, obviously they had a reason. That's what I mean. Talk about it. Talk about it, Chris. Make a video about it. Well, you can't because the way he's pitching it is, isn't it horrible because all these people worked on it and he doesn't want to say that all those people worked on it and it's trash and it's their fault. So he's trying to blame it on someone else, but there's no way he can physically bad mouth the people that made the movie because he just thinks effort equals good. Just insane. It's the most insane. You already did this thing I've ever seen in this business. Outside of Harvey Weinstein. And I just can't. Why'd you laugh? I don't know. I'm also just struggling with the analogy there. Harvey Weinstein, two people don't watch bad films. Well, it does feel real. The number one worst thing in the industry is a man who uses power to like, you know, do all the things that he did. Second worst is when they delete films that are created. It is like that. Oh, yeah. That's a really weird fucking list you got there, man. What if they're deleting his films? Can't believe that anybody would want to sign a contract with somebody like that, knowing that you could do all that work for years of your life and just have some guy be like, your work is shit. Anyway, guys, I would love to hear your thoughts on the state of the industry. Okay, I'm sure you were. He already said that before. He kind of did it. You would love to hear them so you can see which ones he wants to keep for himself. Martin Scorsese, movie theaters, all of it. I'm very fascinated by this topic, physical media. You don't have any opinions by this topic. I don't know. The only opinion he really truly had was that the audience are too afraid to watch films, which is a bizarre and stupid take that must have been his own. Well, I mean, it's just not a great long term. You need to make money. What are you going to do about it? You know, that's like what it comes down to at the end of the day. Like, what are you going to do about it? Is your strategy long term to be like, you fuckers, you're too much cowers to watch my movie? Is that your strategy to get them to watch? You've got to make money. You've got to make money. You have to deal with the landscape that you're in. Or if you're comfortable losing money, that's totally fine as well. Like, if you've got money to burn. Cad. But, well, I mean, a little bit, right, if you decided to find a film and you didn't care. Well, you know. This is the movie I want to make, damn it. Exactly. I want to make it. I'm going to spend all my money. Don't care how much money it makes. It's like, oh, that's pretty cool. When you're using someone else's money, they might have an opinion on how the money is spent. Yeah, yeah. It's not your money. The studio meddling where that guy comes in and says, I want an explosion in this scene. That's what people are. And it's like, oh, you're ruining it. It's like, well, why do you think that even happens? It's that guy's money. He was so impatient for all of it. You know, because people often say like, oh, yeah, appeasing the shareholders is like, yes, that's their job. It's their obligation. They have to. That's their job. Like, these companies are owned by people who want to get a return on investment. And these people need to make decisions that they think are going to make money. And hopefully, in an ideal world, the art can thrive while the commerce can thrive. But obviously, there's going to be friction. Yeah, because if you don't want to be beholden to shareholders, then don't become a publicly traded company. Yeah, stay private. Don't take their money if you don't want to be beholden to them. If you take their money, then you will be. Imagine the average fucking person looking at the listings and being like, new Marvel movie. They've been so bad. What else we got? And it's like, the Meg 4. You're like, maybe, you know, it's a shock movie. It'll be dumb. What else we got? Extraction 7. And you're like, well, I've enjoyed some of it. And then you're like, you know what? I think I'll just stay home this time. And then Chris took a boost in the room. He's like, you coward. You coward. You won't go to the cinema. You're a challenge to me. You're scared. You're scared of the Meg 7. You're sitting in windows like, go to fucking movies. And then you go and you watch the Meg 7. And then he's like, what do you think? And you're like, that's crap. Oh, my God. I guess it's really bad. And he goes like, hey, you can't say that. He worked really hard on that. Yeah, that's negative. I don't know what's interesting in this whole discussion when in the video game world, obviously, there's plenty to be made of all of these battle parts sort of microtransaction laden games. But there is definitely a growing and thriving middle market, as well as obviously the indie scene. If it was like, there's a bit more of a balance there compared to the film industry at the moment. I guess it's interesting because it's like, that's just sort of emerging naturally, partly because of steam and stuff like that, making it easier for these things to happen. It's almost like he's looking at where we're at now and forming a very big conclusion about what that means when it's just like, yeah, but I mean, this could just be short-term fluctuations. Like, who knows? Calm down. Just wait and see. If I'm right. Maybe this is just boom bust or something. And it's like boom bust, but we'll eventually recover and it'll look different. Kind of a glass half full kind of guy. I am an optimist, but there are too many things. I'm an optimist, but everyone is afraid of film. A 20 minute video about how he's worried and panicking that everything's going to die. He's like, but I'm an optimist. You should see the other guy. Can you have a little bit of confidence in us to know what being a glass half full guy means without having to say immediately that you're an optimist? Right. I don't think he knows. I was going to go to like the nature of his writing and I was like, you know what? There's no need to do that. Yeah, but I mean it's the fact that he has to keep saying I love movies when it should already be apparent just through the way it feels insecure, doesn't it? Yeah, of course. Why do you need to remind people? Like, I mean, in case you didn't know, guys, we really like movies here on EFAP. We also like video games. We like music, we like TV shows, like books. I like storytelling. Make sure to mention that half an hour from now. Okay. No, that's right. You need to keep reminding you because it wasn't apparent in the way that we talk about these things. Then, you know, it's just making sure that you know. Good move. Things happening right now that really scared me. I'll set a timer. Why do you say that to these old snapped neck, bro? No one would write that if they didn't have to. I wish he got a chance to write that and put it into the movie. That single line, that single line could have saved cinema. Yeah. I remember other great lines too. Did you think like a pair of glasses could fool the world's greatest detective? Because Batman would definitely refer to himself as the world's greatest detective. He would, yeah, easily. And if I can ever be in a position in my life where I can impact this industry for the positive, I'm going to try my damnedest. Yeah, cool. Why? What's the point of this thing? What's the point of that? I'm gonna drag this industry down. You could be doing so much more. What do you choose to do? Make a rambly video for 20 minutes. This main point that came through is that you, audience member, are too afraid to get out there and support theaters by seeing films that scare you. Okay, that helps. Thanks, bro. Guys, thank you so much as always for watching. Look forward to more videos. Say get stuckmanized. Just very soon if you like. Say it. You can go through if you're happy with this video, Chris. Yes. Yeah, he's got it. We can do it. That's it, that's it. It was all worth it in the end. Oh, there it is. There it is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. That was a bad video. That was a really empty video. That's a shame. Thank God we were here to say something because, oof, that was rough. Barely anything was said. Why? How? Why? Where? It was 20 minutes. He had 20 minutes to talk under and uninterrupted and he barely said anything. What a shame. What a shame. I only learned that I'm scared of movies. So scared, so very scared. Shame me, Chris, do it. Oh, he has to do it. I'm like, no. No. Oh, shame me for being, I don't want to be challenged. Especially when he went, yeah, you're all cowards. You won't see original movies. And then 30 seconds later, because I'm making an original movie. It's like, oh, yeah. That's why. There it is. There it is. Insecure about what he's making. So yeah, pretty good video. Oh my God, this is crazy. This is a top comment that says, we don't just want weird, we want good stories. Oh, yes, bro. Get in there. Thanks. Looking at that icon he's using for his channel, that's a, it's changed. He's changed. We mean he used to be hopeful, full of energy, full of life. No, not really. Still kind of dead-eyed in that one too. Yeah, he's still kind of dead-eyed, but he's definitely, he looks different. He looks different. I just wish that he could ever have explained. I can't think of anything else. We've covered him a couple of times, where it's just like, he was just there early, wasn't he? That was it. He was an earlier adopter of the vlogging format for film review, because I've always just been blown away that I've never heard anything from him about a film that couldn't have been garnered possibly from the synopsis. I have heard more insightful commentary from Wings of Redemption. You know, right? I was about to say the classic. That's not a very high bar, but you know what? That's a mid-bar. That's a bar that's not the easiest thing to clear ever, because he said something on that little cow live that was- That's right. That's right. That was super interesting. The thing is, is, it's just, I don't know that, I don't, how often are you going to be surprised by a perspective that Chris Stockman offers where you'd be like, God damn, I never thought about it that way. How often does that happen? For someone who says that they are so invested in art and creation and originality and filmmaking and being challenged, he's the most bog-standard, boring person you could just kind of imagine. He never says anything insightful or interesting. It's just, he moves his mouth and noise happens, but why pay attention? Why listen? You're not going to listen. Now, off of his observation, when it comes to like a YouTuber who's talking about, you know, movies and video games or something, hearing something that's interesting that I've never heard before is worth a lot compared to just like, yeah, you know, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 is a video game that was released in 2023. It was developed by Sledgehammer Games and published by Activision. It's the 19th installment in the Call of Duty franchise. You sound a little bit too likely. And it's available on PlayStation 5 and Xbox, and PlayStation 5 and Xbox One X, wait, Xbox Series X. The Killer and PC. Directed by David Fincher. David Fincher. Man, he said so little about the killer. That was so lame. Who is famous for having created other very memorable films. Want to punch you? Stop it. Like Fight Club? Stop it. No. Several others. Movie, Chad. Stop it. Yeah, like, I recommend it. We'll see you next time. Get this. He's so overflowing with things to say, you know, so overflowing, like a bountiful waterfall. It just keeps coming. He can't help himself, you know, just talking about all the fricassee film making process and how much he respects it and admires it. Or, you know, alternatively, when it really annoys him in a film like how Pauli the script is derived rather. Yeah, when he turns on the camera, he's like, God, I got so many thoughts. I've got, I've got to say who directed it, who wrote it, and whether or not I liked it. Fucking hell, which one do I do first? Not a half-knot, I got it done. Yeah, I got to be quick. Geez. Can't tell people they're afraid. Oh, fuck. Also, people say the next video, we're actually probably going to end there because that went a lot longer than I expected it to. There was a second video, just going to be moved into a different one now. Don't you worry. Don't panic. But a short man, bad. Four hours. Also, you got other stuff. That's pretty short. Releasing, okay? You guys will be fine. You'll make it. Look at them being all angry and booing. Yeah. You're all just afraid. That's what it is. I'm afraid to be alone. I'm afraid to be challenged by the shorts. I'm afraid to be challenged to be challenged by your own thoughts. All right? Yeah. But before we go. Harry was here. That was fun. Yeah. He was unable to come back. I figured people figured that out. That's not the make. But before we head out, why don't we, Mr. Disparu, why don't you tell people what you're up to and where they can find you? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think my next video is probably going to be about the actors' strike as details are merged. They keep leaking details of the contractor that they still haven't signed for some reason. Everyone should know it would have been over by now. It's like, yeah. There's clearly some resistance that some people don't like it. So, let's see that. Last video was madameweb and the disaster of that. Which you did. You finished. You've completed coverage of Robin Hood, right? Oh, yes. The glory of Robin Hood were just out of nowhere. They get locked in cages and then a pink bunny rabbit walks in with an electric cattle prod to assault them. That sounds great. That's the reason whatsoever. I need to watch your guys' coverage on that. That sounds like a hoot. It is a little bit, yeah. If you only watch one, watch episode seven. It is the most deranged episode of TV I've ever seen. Out of nowhere. Oh, it was bizarre. But, yeah. If you like trash television, go through it. I'm presumably being inspired after today's episode. You're going to start at the end of your video saying get disbarized, right? Disbarized. No, I'm going to start insulting my own viewers. They're like, you're just scared. You won't watch the next one. I dare you. You don't subscribe 40% of the audience. This is a subscribe for your cowards. Cowards is what you are. It's like the fun in your peasants. That kind of stopped. People don't do that anymore, I think. I haven't seen that in a while. I wouldn't be surprised with that. Because every body did it. That, like, one person started it and then it was on every single channel, people pointing out their own analytics. I feel like that's going to be the meme for a while now. People are going to combine the Only Join My Life meme with the You Too Afraid meme somehow. We'll see what comes out of it. Little Pitu, they don't know the meme. You are just genuinely insulting. Little Pitu, what are you up to? What's happening? Yeah, I was one of the very, very many people who was terrified of the marvels, but one of the only people who actually saw the marvels to be terrified by it. So the marvels is hopefully next weekend, but I caught the flu immediately after seeing it. So the script got longer, but I couldn't record anything. But it's now mostly recorded. So next weekend, the marvels, hopefully. Sweet. And what have you got now that would satiate an audience? Now? I don't even know what the last video I did was. Ahsoka, I think. Ahsoka, like, midway through reviewing that. But much like the show itself, my review videos on that are pretty much bombed, so I don't even know what I'm going to do with those ones. But they're fairly good fun. If you've got like an hour-free going, or four hours more like, but you know, if you've got four hours free, go watch those. Hell yeah. You guys love Ahsoka, right? You've had a chat? Yeah, I think it's really, I think it's really good. I think they were 50-50, but once the zombie stormtroopers came into it, they were like, oh, this is me. I can see me in this. Yes. There are people out there. That was the breaking point. Those are odd people. That's the breaking point. That's where they went too far, man. Because they're afraid. Rex, they're afraid. They were afraid. They were too cowardly. I didn't want to be challenged by them. Shit. Um, Metal, what about you? What are you up to? Nothing really new. I've been playing Blasphemous 2 on stream and just being out with the cold mostly. So I don't really have anything new to report. Go watch that Marvel's rant I uploaded from my stream. That was kind of fun. That's about it. Just, I'm not just working away. Blasphemous 2 good? Yeah, really good. I've been enjoying it. Sweet. It's good stuff. Pretty decent bosses. So I think I'm going to finish that tomorrow, actually. I will say, of all the things you could have described them as, you went with really decent. Well, most of them were decent, but they were no bad bosses. That's good. They were like, I think two bosses were pretty good, but there was no boss so far. I was like, oh, that was excellent, but there was one really good one. I guess it would be my thingy. I don't know. So if you describe something as mediocre, that's like five out of 10, I suppose, maybe, if you know that sort of thing. If you describe something as really mediocre. Really mediocre. Does that make it go to a six or a four? In my head that makes good down. Or does it just go up or down? Okay. So when you say really decent, does that mean it's better than decent or it's worse than decent? If it's really decent. I just said worse. I didn't think about that. Wait, I think it's about tone. Really good means it's up. If I say really good, that's better than just good, but if I say really mediocre, that absolutely implies a downward. And the same with really bad is worse than just bad. The typical way you'd express it would be like, it's really mediocre. You wouldn't expect someone to say, it's really mediocre. Yeah, it's really mid. Go check it out. This is so shockingly average. Really emphasizes the true nature of the thing that it proceeds. Really good is like it emphasizes the goodness. Really mediocre emphasizes. And mediocre just feels like okay, in my mind is better than mediocre. Okay is like skews a little bit positively. Yeah, I think okay is. Yeah, I think it's okay, you know? I agree. Metal is okay. Thanks. I do think that tone is very important with okay. You're like, well, what do you say? Like it's okay. That's okay. That's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Anyway, you see we're learning. Yeah, we're learning. Yeah, that's what I'm up to. Griggy, what about you guys? Yo, I don't want to say anything at the moment. All right, well, I'm just... Do you know the deal? It's back to the dungeon I go. It's the same deal for me, except the, of course, obligatory mention of a certain highlights channel that if you guys aren't aware of, we're on the cusp of being able to monetize it. That's true. Yeah. Ooh. Check it out. Have a little look. See there's some stuff in here that you cannot find on the Moorla or Moorla channel. Oh my god. And, of course, it's run by Wolfen. He appreciates suggestions in the comments for what things you'd like to see elsewise as the years go on. I'm sure it'll be filled with every highlight you could possibly imagine. Filled with come highlight. Link in the description. Nice. Check it out. Subscrizzle if you want to see EFAP highlights, I suppose. And drink that bell. Clingolang. Thank you, of course, to capital opinions for joining us as well. A link to all channels in the description and Gary for his cameo. He just came into it. It's always exciting to see Gary come up with his cameo. Yeah, I'm like, whoo. It's like, I'm here, too. Gary brings that after credits energy to the podcast that we really, we really like. The grandpa seems to be what he walks in just circles and leaves. Everybody look at old man's fiddling with his computer settings. Might explode it. Might have exploded the computer. Who knows? Oh, god. But yes, on that note, we shall see you all next time. Whenever that may be. Toodle pip. Cheer you around. Bye. Bye. Okay. See ya. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.