 The final item of business is members' business debate on motion 11127, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the portrayal of ADHD treatment. That debate will be concluded without any questions being put. May I ask those who wish to speak in the debate to press the request to speak buttons? I call on Daniel Johnson to open the debate for around seven minutes, please, Mr Johnson. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. In the few months since I first confirmed to Parliament that I had ADHD, I have been touched and slightly overwhelmed by the number of people who have told me, first of all, thank you for speaking up, but also to comment on what they perceive as my courage and bravery in speaking up. I have to say, I feel slightly guilty because I am not sure that I was brave at all. You see, the thing about having ADHD is that you have very poor impulse control. I have to say that I just got very angry about the press coverage of ADHD, and I felt that I had to speak up. I have to say that I quite often find myself looking at something that I think is unfair or unjust. I quite often speak before I have thought about whether it is sensible or not to do so. Perhaps that is probably quite a good thing for an MSP, and I will touch on that later on. I have got angry again because Netflix released a documentary called Take Your Pills just a month or so ago. It is a sensationalist documentary. It explores a trope around there being an explosion of diagnosis of ADHD, that the medication is unnecessary and it compares ADHD medication to crystal meth. It piddles and perpetuates myths that those of us with ADHD battle against almost on a daily basis, that ADHD is not real and that the meds do more harm than goods and that doctors are handing out pills like sweeties. As part of speaking up, writing articles and speaking up events that I have done since speaking up in Parliament, I have told my story about how ADHD and the diagnosis have been empowering, how it has transformed my life and how medication has been a vital first step within that. The thing is that I am not alone. This is not a rare condition. One in 20 people are like me. Everyone in here will know other people with ADHD, whether they are friends or in classrooms, so there will be at least two or three children with ADHD. The fact that this is such a prevalent condition but that there is so little understanding, the fact that people will know more about the myths regarding ADHD rather than the facts just is not right. The very fact that this is the first time ADHD has been debated as a topic on its own in this Parliament is not right. That is what we are here to do today, to bust the myths surrounding ADHD and to build the understanding that I think we need. Let us start with the facts. I have ADHD and I have been taking methylphenidate, which most people will know as Ritalin, every day for the last five years. That is the fact. Let us deal with the fiction. I am not a victim. I am not looking for special treatment. My brain is just wired up in a slightly different way. The things that most people find easy, mundane and routine, people like me find incredibly difficult. I am not constantly running around bouncing off the walls like a naughty child. A tension deficit hyperactivity disorder is just that. It is a composite of different traits. Part of it is about inattentiveness. It is as much about that daydreamy child at the back of the classroom who is not concentrating at all as it is about the naughty child running around. I am much more on the inattentive side of the spectrum rather than the hyperactive side. I am not making it up and I feel pain that I have to say that. ADHD is real. It is not an excuse for bad parenting. It is not something that I am seeking special treatment for. It is not a social phenomenon. If you scanned my brain, my prefrontal cortex just is not as active as most people's. My brain does not produce enough dopamine. There are genetic markers that are highly predictive of ADHD. Finally, I take ADHD medication but I am not a zombie. The myth that somehow by giving people ADHD medication they get turned into incommunicative zombies is just false. ADHD medication in the most part is stimulant based. It is the complete opposite of a sedative. If that sounds strange, let me just put it to you like this. How many people in this chamber, before they start working today, have a cup of coffee or when they sit down to write a speech, drink a cup of tea? We take stimulants because it is a way of helping our brains to deal with mundane and slightly banal chores. It is about keeping our brain interested in what we have at hand. That is especially important and especially true for ADHD medication. It is also why it is so important as a first step to learning the skills, to learning the techniques that you need to deal with the condition on top of the pills, because without taking the pills you cannot do that. Many people ask me, what is it like to have ADHD? What goes on in your head? The best way I have got of explaining it is, it is a bit like a record player but your needle keeps jumping out of the groove. You know what track you want to play but the needle will not stay in there. Medication is the first step that you need to do to keeping the needle in the groove. There is another way of looking at that record analogy. People with ADHD do not just look at an individual track at time. They like looking at the whole album. People with ADHD view the world in macro, not micro. We like looking at the big picture. We see the connections. We are constantly finding tangents in different ways of looking at things. That allows us to see things that other people do not. Again, I spoke at the beginning that being slightly inhibited about speaking up is useful for being an MSP, but seeing that bigger picture and those connections is vital for my work. It allows me to bring something else to this job. Let me say one other thing about being a politician. Five percent of people have ADHD, so there will be other people. I hope that this debate gives other politicians the courage to get a diagnosis or, if they have one, to speak up about it. Let me say one other thing about that five percent. Five percent of the population have ADHD, and the prison population is 20 per cent. I just want people to think about that. That is four times higher. What is going on? At the very least, it points to a failure, a social failure, a failure of all that we are understanding, but also a policy failure. For people to end up in that situation, for such a high prevalence, something is not right. There is one brutal and blunt fact. While the myth is that we overdiagnose ADHD, nothing could be further from the truth. We underdiagnose this condition. One per cent of the adult population have an ADHD diagnosis. The proportion is very similar for the child population. That is a massive underdiagnosis of this condition and an undermedication of this condition. The myths that get peddled stop people from seeking the help and forgetting that vital first step that medication provides, that they need to deal with their condition and the consequences that it has. Medication, in the words of NICE, is a first-line therapy, and I think that that is what needs to be borne in mind. As I close, we need to destigmatise medication. We need better access to mental health services, and we need more than just medication. It is about pills and skills. If there is one positive outcome to the very negative effect that the Netflix documentary had, it is that people took to social media. People like me to speak up about the positive impact that pills have taken on their life, about what it had enabled them to do, and that if you look up the hashtag, I take my pills because you will see those testimonies and the positive experiences that people have, and it out-trended the hashtag for the documentary itself. Let me just say this. I take my pills because they enable me to function. They free up my head to develop the skills and learn to cope with my condition. Most importantly, I take my pills because they have transformed my life and have transformed the life of my family. I move to the open debate. In the speeches of four minutes please, Emma Harper, to be followed by Miles Briggs. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Thank you, Daniel Johnson, for bringing this important issue to the attention of Parliament today. I watched the take-your-pills documentary and I felt much the same way others have felt when they described it. One reviewer called it aggravatingly myopic and scaremongering. I refer members to my register of interests that I am a nurse, and I should also mention that I have had many years' first-hand experience of living with someone with ADHD. My husband has ADHD, and he was diagnosed as an adult when he was 35 years old in Los Angeles. The diagnosis was life-changing for him. He had been on the psychostimulant medication Adderall for his ADHD for almost two years when we met, and I saw no symptoms of any kind, and I had no idea he had ADHD until he told me. Adderall worked for him. It helped him focus, it helped him with project completion, and it helped to promote positive relationships with everyone. My husband describes his ADHD like, imagine you are sitting in a room trying to read a book, and there are three televisions on, all in different channels, and there are two stereos in the room playing different songs, and there are also three groups of people standing around you carrying on three different conversations. He says, this is what it's like, and this is how he described what he feels like inside his head when reading a book, but when he takes Adderall, there's only one TV on and one stereo playing, so it's much easier for him to focus on what he's reading. I'm aware that ADHD is caused by a variety of environmental and genetic factors, and it's usually hereditary condition, and ADHD usually becomes apparent before the age of 12, but many people, such as my husband, are not diagnosed until adulthood. It is estimated that around 5 per cent of school-age children have ADHD globally, and that about 4 per cent of the adult population have ADHD. In Scotland, only 0.08 per cent of adult population, eight out of 10,000, are receiving medication for their ADHD. I suspect that there are a lot more adults out there, such as my husband, who no medication would help them and would like to receive medication, but they are currently not. He went to his GP 13 years ago, after we returned to Scotland, and he was informed that ADHD in adults was not high on the agenda. That was in 2005. So now, in 2018, I've encouraged him to go to his current GP and try again, and hopefully, he will get a more satisfactory result. The motion notes that the Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network for the Management of ADHD in Children and Young People, sign number 112, has not been updated since 2009. In fact, at the bottom of the sign 112, the webpage says that the guideline was issued in 2009 and will be considered for review in three years. Used with caution, declaration of interest, governance may not be in line with current policy. The webpage itself warns that it is out of date. I urge the Scottish Government to encourage healthcare improvement Scotland to update sign number 112, management of ADHD in children and young people as a matter of urgency. I also encourage them to include adult ADHD in the guideline. In closing, let me thank the Scottish ADHD Coalition and their work and their excellent website. It is full of helpful factual information. I note that there are 15 ADHD support groups across Scotland and only three of them are for adults with ADHD. I was also perturbed to see that there are no groups south of the central belt in my South Scotland region. No group in Dumfries, none in air, none in Stranraer. I'd like to see that change. I also discovered a terrific YouTube channel called How to ADHD, which is created by Jessica McCabe in the USA. She has excellent information in her videos, and I encourage everyone—professionals, as well as folks with ADHD and family members—to check it out. Miles Briggs, followed by Anas Sarwar. I would like to start by congratulating Daniel Johnson on securing today's debate and paying tribute to the work that he has done speaking out about his personal experience of ADHD and raising awareness of the issues. It is important that we have debates in Parliament, and when members bring their personal interests and personal experience, it makes for excellent debates. I completely agree with Daniel Johnson that we need to see media, especially documentary programmes, to provide a balanced and informed portrayal of ADHD and how it is treated. I believe that today's debate is timely and extremely important. I also thank Emma Harper for her useful briefing ahead of today's debate. I commend them for all that they do on behalf of children and families across Scotland. The coalition's establishment in 2017 to bring together all of the voluntary organisations, providing support to families, was a very positive step forward. ADHD is a significant health issue for our society. It is estimated that, as has been said, 5 per cent of children who have ADHD and approximately 1.5 per cent have severe ADHD disorder. There is also a large number of adults who have already been mentioned who have never received any diagnosis. Last year, Daniel Johnson was concerned at some of the comments that I had made in relation to the start-up increase in drugs such as Ritalin being prescribed to children with ADHD. I want to make it very clear, as we have spoken about in the past as well, that we recognise that such medication can make a huge difference to many children and, indeed, adults. That is a positive thing that we should all support. Absolutely no one should feel any way that there is anything wrong with taking such medication any more than they would take medication for a physical illness. However, each individual is different and medication alone will often not be the only single answer. In many concerns that I wanted to highlight was the suggestion that, in many cases, medication was all that was being offered and other treatments and support systems such as parental training, school interventions, counselling and psychological support were simply not being made available to families across Scotland. We continue to see that being the case. I make it clear that, for mild symptoms of ADHD, clinicians should also consider behavioural approaches in the first instance. Concern about medication only approaches is a key finding from the attending to parents report published by the Scottish ADHD Coalition, which also noted that parents who refuse medication for their children are often discharged from services in Scotland, which all of us will find unacceptable and has to change. We also need to ensure that, for each patient and individual, the continuing benefit from and need for medication should be assessed at least once a year by the sign recommendations. The Coalition's report also highlights concern about excessively long cams waiting time, something that all of us in this chamber have raised and expressed concerns about. The continuing source of anguish for many people in my own region of Lothian and I know across Scotland. It is also calling for teachers to receive much greater training on ADHD, and I support that. I think that it is really vital. I recently received a copy of a letter from my Perthyn Kynroth's counsellor colleague, counsellor Chris Ahearn, who has written to the Cabinet Secretary for Health about ADHD. counsellor Ahearn makes a number of important points and emphasises that there is in Scotland a real lack of reliable data sets on our ADHD and its impact in schools and the workplace. As Daniel Johnson has already highlighted in prisons, it was one part of the health and sport committee's work, which we did not really touch on but did highlight when we were looking at prisoner health and opportunities. It is something that we really need to continue to look at in terms of the mental health and also head trauma, which was highlighted quite significantly in the work that we did. Prisoner populations are not actually having access to any assessment to look at those aspects of their health. counsellor Ahearn believes that the Scottish Government should address this and also consider setting up a cross-party working group to look at the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD. Perhaps the minister can respond to those points in her closing speech and something that members across the chamber will also want to look to take forward. I again welcome today's debate and the fact that Daniel Johnson has brought this subject forward for today's debate and the way in which he has done that. In light of the new, nice and royal college of psychiatrists in Scotland's guidelines, I am very sympathetic to the view that our sign guidelines now should also be updated to ensure that people of all ages with ADHD in Scotland and their families know what type and level of care they should be receiving. Anna Sarwar, to be followed by Stuart Stevenson. I, like others, start by congratulating Daniel Johnson for bringing forward this important debate. Mr Johnson was extremely modest in his opening contribution when he said that there was no such thing as his bravery and courage in speaking out. I can say to him as a friend that he is not often doing modesty, so he should not do modesty on that. It is extremely brave and courageous of him to speak out particularly around his own circumstances. As someone who knows him as a friend, as a colleague and who has seen him as a parent, he is a first-class human being in all three of those aspects. He is a fantastic and diligent member of Parliament, not an ineffective or hyperactive one. He is a first-class parent and always a pleasure and a joy to be around. Not only has he brought forward this important debate, he has done so in a manner to affect change by speaking about his own circumstances. I also hope that it has been done to give confidence to other people to speak out, not just confidence in Parliamentarians or other people involved in politics, but confidence to the wider public to seek access to services, to speak openly about their own circumstances with their friends, families and loved ones, but also with their healthcare professionals. I hope that we can send a unified message against what was portrayed in that Netflix documentary and, instead, to open a positive dialogue about what positive treatment we can have going forward. On that basis, I want to focus on a few areas. One area in particular is about the destigmatisation of ADHD. It is no different to any other physical or mental condition. There is no shame in having ADHD. There is no shame in taking your medication or your pills, whether that be for ADHD or any other condition, and we should be very clear about that. It is also important to recognise that, although people have neurodevelopment conditions such as ADHD, the services that they will access will be mental health services. The pressures that we see in our mental health services, whether that be around CAMHS or adult services, will therefore impact on patients and families who are affected by ADHD, too. How we have an effective CAMHS system and mental health system is extremely important. If we look at the experiences of parents, 80 per cent of parents that were surveyed said that they felt that they took too long for their child to be diagnosed with ADHD. That cannot be good enough. We need to look into how we have quicker diagnosis. We have to recognise the huge variation that there is in terms of access to courses of treatment. Mr Johnson referred to 5 per cent of the population having ADHD, 20 per cent of the prison population. If you look at the treatment rates, it is about 1 per cent average across the country. It varies so much that it is much, much higher. For example, 2 per cent of the population is between 5 to 19 taking ADHD medication in the borders. That compares to only just 0.4 per cent in Lanarkshire. That shows you a huge variation in how ADHD is diagnosed and treated in different parts of the country. That needs to be addressed in a much more serious and open way. We have had a conversation with Mr Briggs about pills and Mr Johnson mentioned about pills. It is important to end the stigma around people using medication. The reason why counselling and support services are so important, particularly in our schools, is that access to services in our schools, primary care and community care is not just to medicate individuals but to empower individuals to be able to make interventions in their own life that will help them to deal better with ADHD and therefore have a positive impact, not just on their own life circumstances but on the life circumstances of their work colleagues. It could be of their friends, family and it could indeed be of their children. What I hope comes out of this debate today is a more open and honest conversation about ADHD, a challenging of the stigma of ADHD and the use of pills when it comes to ADHD and improving of diagnosis for ADHD and improving of the referral pathway for ADHD and looking at a more holistic approach. It is something that is recognised as a genuine condition alongside other conditions and that people feel that they have someone to turn to and that they will not be written off by society. Once again, I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing forward this important debate. I call Stuart Stevenson to be followed by Alexander Burnett. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Like others, I thank Daniel Johnson for giving the opportunity to have this debate but also congratulate him on the very individual and particular contribution that he is able to make and the real courage that he takes to make it. Fortunately, I am not in a position where I have to exercise that kind of choice. Some members here may have heard me previously talk about the first job that I had when I left school. For about eight months, I worked in psychiatric hospital in a locked ward in 1964, just at the point where the very first medications were becoming available that would enable people with quite a wide range of psychiatric and other conditions to get something better than simply being locked up in the old asylum. The asylum in which I worked had about 1,200 patients. Today, the hospital that sits on that site has around 100 patients. My starting point is that medication is an important part of dealing with a wide range of conditions, such as ACHD and ADHD. However, like others, I thank the coalition for their contribution at the debate in the briefing. They talked about a survey that they did of parents. They referred to medication, parent training, school interventions and psychological support. I must confess that I have not watched the Netflix film. I take Daniel Johnson's word for what is in it, supplemented by what Emma Harper said. I saw just a few weeks ago on BBC4 the doctor who gave up on drugs on 23 May 2018. It was interesting because he was using a mindfulness approach to support to school students who had ADHD, not getting them off the drugs but giving them a choice and giving them space. I was quite impressed but, of course, television programmes always short-circuit complexities. We need to be very careful about that. I am not assuming that the magic bullet was contained in that one hour of television. However, it leads us to an important general point. That is our use of the word and the concept of normal. We increasingly view normal as a much narrower range than it is proper to consider. Normal is anything—behaviors, aptitudes, abilities and conditions—that does not harm the individual or cause the individual to harm anyone else. We should review normal as covering a much wider range, a much wider variety. I have my own full base. I cannot come into here without getting to my office. I am generally first in on the fourth floor without straightening up all the rubbish bins. It is just something that I feel compelled to do. I virtually will not use the phone. I am virtually phobic on that. Personally, I hate pills, but there is a reason for that, because I was an experimental drug programme for a particular condition that I had at the time when I was 12. It did not sort the condition, but it has left me with lifelong issues associated with that trial. I personally use self-hypnosis to deal with pain and with my asthma. I have not taken medication for asthma now for 35 years, but I am fortunate. I am able to do that because my condition probably is not severe enough to require medication. Is not that to the heart of the whole thing? We have to treat people as individuals and find individual treatments that suit them. It will be a mix of medications, psychological support, family and educational support. It is that diversity and that range of what is normal that we should perhaps think about when we think about this issue. Once again, Daniel Johnson deserves our thanks for raising it in this context and showing us that there is more to this or perhaps less to this than we might have otherwise thought. The last of the open debate contributions is from Alexander Burnett. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I join members from across the chamber in congratulating Daniel Johnson for gaining cross-party support for his motion on the portrayal of ADHD treatment and his incredibly personal and compelling opening speech. Most, if not all of us, will have met someone who has ADHD. I am also grateful for colleagues such as Emma Harper for sharing their own experience of that. For those of us who think that we have not met someone, we probably have, but we just did not realise it at the time. As with many health issues, the symptoms are not necessarily physical. We have seen a move in recent years of treating mental health conditions differently to how we treat physical health conditions, but we must assess each and every condition individually in order to effectively help those in need. Those who know me know that I am an avid rugby fan and a former player. I am sure that we are all very well aware of the benefits of physical exercise no matter which sport may be of your choosing. It has been immensely rewarding to have coached a couple of young players with ADHD and seen their progress and improved participation both on and off the field. It has been a great lesson for myself to have learned how to coach people with ADHD within a wider group. Physical exercise has been proven time and again to have a massive benefit on our mental health. I am not saying that picking up a rugby ball will treat ADHD definitively, but many studies have shown that playing a sport can help children and adults manage their ADHD. Although sign and nice guidelines recommend multimodal treatment for ADHD, including parent training, school interventions and psychological support, in many areas medication is all that is offered and parents who refuse medication to their children are often discharged from services. Despite unhelpful programmes such as Take Your Pills, medication is a valid option, but for many it helps those with ADHD to manage their symptoms to lead a better life. For some time, it is the additional treatments, including psychological support, that are able to help. We must listen to those with ADHD and organisations such as the Scottish ADHD Coalition on what treatments make a real improvement to people's lives. It is not just for health service, schools and individuals who can help to improve the way that we manage ADHD treatment. The business world needs to get involved, too. As the Guardian published in an article in March of this year, those with ADHD can be a huge asset to the workplace if they are supported. There were many stories on individual struggles in the workplace, but research has found that by utilising the symptoms of ADHD, such as hyper-focusing, businesses can actually benefit from hiring people with ADHD. Every manager and employer knows that you should use the dithering strengths of your employees, and it is no different for those with ADHD. I was pleased to read that the Scottish ADHD Coalition has published a guide for employers, which I look forward to sharing across my constituency and the wider business community. We are here today because more action is needed from the Scottish Government to bring forward plans to update nice and signed guidelines. However, I would also encourage them to ensure that all Government departments are working to ensure that those with ADHD can enjoy all aspects of life with the support of those around them. I now call Maureen Watt to respond to the debate for around seven minutes, please, minister. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would like to, too, begin by commending Daniel Johnson for bringing his motion to the chamber today. Mr Johnson has bravely shared his own experience. Excuse me, Ms Watt, could you… Sorry, yep. Do you want me to start again, or shall I just continue? Thank you very much for bringing the motion to debate this evening and for sharing your own experience of being diagnosed with ADHD on a previous occasion, and thank you very much for that. Mental health is something that we all have, and by being open about our own experiences of mental health issues and neurodevelopmental disorders, we can help to reduce stigma and promote understanding. I think that it is so important that we lead by example here. I absolutely share your concern and others that have mentioned that ADHD was shown on the documentary Take Your Pills, which was distributed in the UK by Netflix. I did watch the programme, and I think that it is important to note that the film focuses on the US and should be viewed in that context. I was very disappointed to see the condition portrayed in such an unbalanced and frankly stigmatising manner, which is not helpful for people living with the condition and those who are supporting them. Before I proceed further, I would also like to welcome the recent publication of the nice guidelines on the diagnosis and management of ADHD, and guidance that was published last summer on the management of adult ADHD by the Scottish division of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. Accordingly, we will be looking to update the signed guidance on ADHD at the earliest opportunity, and I hope that that will be welcomed by Emma Harper and others who have mentioned that. Members have also mentioned the prescription of medication, which gets a lot of media attention at the moment, not just for ADHD but for depression and other mental health conditions. I absolutely understand that people have concerns about that and that we take time to address it, but it is also important to listen to what Daniel Johnson said. I acknowledge that the treatment of ADHD in adults and children can be about medication, but it is not just about medication. It is about making sure that the right support is in place at the right time. I will go on to say a bit more later about what we are doing to support children and young people with ADHD. Let me make it absolutely clear that people experiencing mental ill health and those living with a neurodevelopmental disorder should expect the same standard of care as people with physical illness and should receive medication if they need it. Stuart Stevenson's historical analogy was important. We should reflect in the 70th year of the NHS just how far we have come in treating people with neurodevelopmental disorders and mental illness disorders and that they are not still institutionalised as they were, so unnecessarily in times past. The prescription of any medication is a clinical decision made by health professionals in discussion with the patient. We know that there is good evidence that health professionals assess and treat those conditions appropriately, but other things can be used to help people with the condition. It was interesting that Alexander Burnett mentioned the benefits of sport. Some of you may have been at the event that was in Parliament a few weeks ago called Tennis Aces, which showed that, when children with neurodevelopmental disorders or indeed young adults or older people concentrate—there is a similar project in the north-east of Scotland on the Murray course on golf—the concentration that is required gives people relief of all the things that are going on in their heads. All of those things are important and we must realise that medication is not the only treatment. We are committed to improving access to alternatives such as psychological therapies that increase choice and best accommodate patient preference. The Scottish Government supports services provided by breathing space and NHS living life to help people who are experiencing depression and low mood for whatever reason. That is a key element of wider work across Scotland to intervene early and prevent problems for becoming worse. That aligns well with our policy on improving prevention and early intervention, which is one of the areas of focus of our new 10-year mental health strategy. On supporting children and young people who are living with ADHD, we are absolutely committed to giving those children the opportunities to succeed in school. We are clear that pupils should get the support that they need to reach their full learning potential. It is up to education authorities to have in place appropriate policies and guidance to support all staff who work with children and young people with ADHD to ensure that they make the most of their learning opportunities. To support staff in that, we have recently published the revised supporter learners code of practice, which explains the duties on education authorities and other agencies. We have also worked closely with Education Scotland to roll out mental health first aid training aimed at staff within secondary school communities. That training seeks to increase their confidence in approaching pupils who they might think are struggling with a mental health problem. All those measures are designed to ensure that children and young people with ADHD are supported to reach their full potential free of stigma. Miles Briggs mentioned the evidence session that you had on prison health. As a former prison visitor, I am well aware of the number of people in prison who not only have ADHD but other behavioural issues, and, quite frankly, should not be part of the prison population. I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing that motion to the chamber this afternoon. He did not mention that he has written to me to have a round table, which I am absolutely up for. I look forward to us working together on that. We have it early in the next session, rather than later. I think that that will contribute to what Anasar was asked for, which was more openness on the subject.