 Also taking pictures, but anyway, yeah, so welcome. Thank you so much for coming today We are very excited to have you. Just a shot of hands. Who has not attended any of our talks or workshop before? Wow, so okay Welcome, thank you so much for coming today. It's always good to see new faces and to last meet new people as well So if you are, I see a lot of Today I talked to the support of you and I'm very very surprised actually by a lot of you, both as software engineers and as a company And I really love that, I really love to hear that there are a lot of women actually How do you know it's your fault? If you are just to give a talk in the future, you are always happy to have you So come and tell us what you're doing, we want to know you better and yeah So before Anna starts, I'd just like to say a very very big thank you to our venue sponsor who So Lawrence over there is from PayPal. Everybody give Lawrence a big round of applause Lawrence is from PayPal. PayPal has offered to sponsor the venue, the pizza, the drinks So the drinks machine behind, I think you can just There's some stuff that's running out but just for us. Don't put money in there. I don't know where it goes to So unless you want to add to Lawrence's salary, I think No, it doesn't go to my pocket Okay, and also to the lucky people down here, they are from engineers.sg and they'll be recording the talk So that, so if you are interested to find out a little bit more about what the tech community is up to in Singapore Okay, just go to engineers.sg and all the most of the talks that, most of the meetups that are happening The talks are recorded and put out there So today, we are very very excited because we have Anna Anna is the co-organiser of the Ruby Meetup in Singapore How many of you code in Ruby? Cool, I can't see you next to it yet Yeah, so if you code in Ruby, please Even if you don't code in Ruby, the Ruby Meetup is always very broad, relatively big So you can find out more about that from Anna as well And she's also currently a PhD candidate at NUS, Natural University of Singapore Her work is very much related to open source communities and technology So I will let her talk a little bit more about her personal journey in the world of tech and her work as well So if you can, please give me a big round of applause Thank you Thanks so much, Joyce. It's really good to be here I was just curious Show up, Hans. How many of you are software developers? I saw How many of you are not software developers but are interested to learn how to code or have already started learning how to code? Basically the rest. Okay, awesome So as Dor said, I'm a PhD candidate at NUS, the National University of Singapore And I study open source software development from the point of view of Organizational dynamics, so I'm interested in how people work together in such big collectives to cross such big instances What makes that dynamic take? And That is So maybe working on the last few years I'm also involved in the Ruby group As Joyce mentioned as well, and we're meeting next week on Tuesday if you want to come and join us Those of you who are Rubyists, and even if you're not, please do come and join us We're always happy to see new people What else can I tell you about me? If you want to get in touch with me I've been working on this for the last four years, but in total Open source has been in my life for as long as you remember So everything I know from computers and open open source is good One of the reasons that I started a PhD in studying open source software is because I wanted to give something back I wanted to go into knowledge This is how I can help What I'm going to do today is go to a couple of different interests, so I wasn't sure what that was It's going to be like exactly, so there's going to be a little bit of background There's also going to be a little bit about where I'm interested in, and there's going to be a little bit about how I can get my role Okay, and it's generally organized into A couple of events that I think will have a lot of interest in software development And I'm going to go through one of them each one of them at a time But before that of those who are software developers, how many of you contribute to open source software? Okay, keep your hands up Okay, how many of you use open source software on a daily basis? Okay, keep your hands up. Keep your hands up. Don't put them down. Okay. How many of you use plc Okay, keep your hand up. How many of you use uh firefox uh pro uh android Okay, you get the idea. All right. Um, so all of your business is projects. Um, and uh In fact, if you're going to probably mind with this Ruby, Python, all of that I think we're going to cover the whole group. Okay, so this is something that's really relevant for all of us Okay, so Okay, it's just a little slow Um, so these are the four myths that I wanted to talk about. So first, um The fact that three numbers of software is a new idea So we're going to pick on that myth. The second is that women don't participate. The third that There aren't any Gains to you personally or economically contributing. This is something that people do with pure altruism That's another myth. We're going to talk about and the last one that I'm really interested in Talking about is you need to be really good at starting. Okay, so Um myth number one, why is open source software not in your idea? So I really like this picture. This is um, this is open source software from the 1960s. These are takes These is for those of you who can't see at the back. Uh, this is an octal debugging program This is the ASCII source code and a three-word debugging package Um, and these were used in really really old computers These are produced by a group called decis because um in the 50s and in the 60s when People made hardware Software was distributed alongside that in order to facilitate its use But it wasn't something that people sold or people felt the need to sell because people are in the business of making hardware Right and so a user group formed around that called decis and they used to distribute source code It tapes like this. So it would come in like a little nice package and you have bits of tapes It was all really cool. Um, one of the first compilers The a2 so the a0 and then a2 is a different version of that was released as one of the first free software projects And that was in the 1950s What they did was they released the source code to this compiler and they actually asked people for feedback So as early as the 1950s people were releasing software as The body has been software or open source software. They thought about it as just the way that people Engaged with software um This is a couple of guys at the mit artificial intelligence lab the air lab And uh, this is perhaps the most famous group of people who were using open source software before Before it was open source software. Um, uh, that is academics. So The academic principle of openness was sort of fundamentally built into how people shared software software was distributed on source code by default because You needed to modify them Um, it wasn't something that where you pre-built and there were so many different variations of hardware than there are now In fact, we're kind of in a in an era where hardware is converging a little bit So we don't have as much variability as we did So you had to you had to usually modify the source code in order to be able to get it to run on your machine And so it was only natural that software was distributed on source Um, you would also find that folks with fixed bugs In the software and the whole really big industry was open source because security systems are not So you wanted to be able to see what was going on in the source board in order to be able to Uh fix the problem yourself So you wouldn't necessarily trust that the binary that someone gave you would be secure enough And also people found it completely natural to collaborate together and function out um, so no one really thought about it as Free software or no one really thought about it as a moment. It was just a It was this particular lab that Richard Stahlman joined in 1991. This is Richard Stahlman This is one of my favorite pictures. Um This is the man who started the free software movement and for him it was It was a sort of a a co-lessons of factors So in the 1670s software started becoming a bit more complex And the production of software became a couple from the production of hardware Because production costs were increasing and so, uh, folks started to see the economic value and actually selling software separately and um bundling software with your computer that goes a higher cost for the For the consumer in order to buy this Consumers are not necessarily willing to buy the same software that came off the machine. In fact, uh, one of the first antitrust cases was in late 1960s And that also ruled that you shouldn't bundle software with your hardware because it's actually competitive And so that created an opportunity a space for people to develop software as to serve the software as a product And so software became much more commercial The other thing that happened was the introduction of unix. So, uh, unix became really popular, but unix was not open Unix was uh, initially distributed and free to non-profit organizations to educational institutions But eventually that license changed and so you had to pay for security updates through the late 70s and 80s And people weren't really happy about that because by then you got to establish a huge ecosystem and uh, all the The ecosystem that depended on these patches were suddenly in a position that we had to pay to be able to upgrade And for most people the reality of using unix was not practical and financial So all of this didn't sit very well with Salman because he came from a tradition of uh, openness and sharing in the MIT AI lab And so even when he left, um, he felt pretty frustrated and he usually tells this this one story of the xerox machine so he had to pay with him and He uh, figured out that it was a systemic issue with the copying machine and the copying machine was donated to the AI lab So he thought well, no problem. I'll just crack open the source code, see what's going on, see if I can fix it All right, no good deals. Unfortunately That wasn't the case. So for the first time in his life he never crossed the situation or he couldn't look into the source code or something And so he started digging deeper. He went and contacted the manufacturer, the manufacturer said, well actually you need to solve for this guy at this university he called at the university and the guy at the university said, you know what? He made me sign in on disclosure agreements and I came here to get the source code And that's sort of when he went, haha This is not good because I can fix this. Not only can I fix this, I can help other people who have this problem But I'm not allowed to do this And um So what he did was he said about creating a Unix life system um a replacement for Unix that was going to make ability over and that was going to Have built within it the idea that if you're going to use it, you're going to have to contribute You're going to have to keep whatever you have modified open And so uh, that's how the GNU project went about. The GNU project was very successful But it was missing one critical component and that was the kernel And that's when this guy comes Everybody knows who this is right? This is Linus Draubalds So um in response to what was going on with Unix, Andrew Tenenbaum created Minix, uh, which was uh for educational purposes He created that alongside a book that he wrote on Software and operating systems and a lot of universities were using this as course material The problem is that even though Minix was open and you could see the source code You couldn't modify it and you couldn't redistribute it So Linus Draubalds had a brand new gadget at the time with some crazy specs And he couldn't run Minix on it So what does he do? He says, you know what guys? I'm going to roll my own And because GNU still hadn't had he still hadn't come up with a kernel. That's essentially the part that he had to write so he had to write a kernel and He used uh stallman c compiler. So the GNU c compiler is still in use today in Linux and He also eventually switched to the GNU public license and he said it's one of the best things he ever did for the project By the way, all of your android phones those of you put up your hands. They all run Linux And so that's how This happened, right? So now whenever people say Linux and you're talking about the operating system You're actually talking about GNU slash Linux, right? I'm not actually talking about Linux So back to this guy So the thing is Linus Draubalds was just one man, right? How do you manage a project that's growing bigger and bigger and bigger? You have all of these developers you have all of these expectations and by something like 1998 This was becoming a big problem. So people were contributing patches at a rate that he was not expecting In fact, if you read his original email, he was not expecting this to grow beyond the architecture that he built it for And within a few years, this was running on so many machines across different parts of the world Hundreds of people are contributing to this and he was the gatekeeper He was the person who had to read all these things and he had to apply all the patches And frankly, he had a job. He had a kid. He was kind of tired, right? So what does he do? He starts he starts to fall back a little bit and uh Linux almost forked at this point This is a really interesting story. What happened was One of the other core developers started to accept patches on his behalf because he said, okay, I think, you know I know Linus is busy. Let's create like a nightly build and I'm going to accept all these patches And you guys can use it so you guys can have all of these updates now The problem with that of course is that you get two different versions of the curdle You get the official version and you get the version with all of the patches So very soon that could have become a completely different version of Linux And you could have had a fork and that's not really a good thing for the community So a couple of folks stepped in and one of them was Eric Raymond and they said, you know what guys We have to do something about this. Otherwise you're going to have a fork You're going to destabilize one of the critical components of this ecosystem So what they did was they switched to a version control system. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of bitkeeper Some of you might so bitkeeper was a proprietary version control system It's kind of like git but at the time git wasn't written yet and bitkeeper was a project that Larry McAvoy had created so he jumped into the conversation and he said, why don't you guys use this? Okay, it's commercial software, but I'm going to give you guys I'm going to give you developers a license to be able to use the software for current development As long as you don't contribute to anything else like CVS or any other Version control system and they said sure and this worked pretty well for a few years until someone decided to reverse engineer bitkeeper So of course McAvoy got really pissed And he pulls this license and he says, you know what you guys can't use this anymore And Linus Thorobalt said down and he wrote git Which is probably what you guys are all using today. Yeah So that's how git came about and shortly after and I think this was uh, 2002 and then in 2008 Got github. So github isn't actually an open source software project But it runs on a bunch of open source software projects, right? It runs on git, it runs on ruby and rails and it also Encourages you to use open source licenses to post your projects, especially if you don't sign up for free, right? So in a nutshell history of Select history of the open source movement. Okay, so this this stuff has been around for a while So we're talking the last 50 60 years, right? Okay myth number two The fact that women don't participate in open source software Um statistically that's kind of true. So the numbers are really low, especially if you look at surveys Um, but I wanted to highlight a couple of really great examples of women leaders because I think that it's worth talking about You've noticed back there that all of the people that I talked about were men right But a lot of there are a lot of women who have shaped the way that the open source community is right now And so I wanted to spend some time to talk about them So this lady on the left here. This is Denise Cooper Um, Denise Cooper joined sun way back in the day So when sun was still sun when sun still existed and She joined as one of the first people to head open source and sun and Her mission at the time was to open source java So, you know that java is one of the only interpretive languages. It's not open source still She failed She she met with a lot of resistance. She failed she didn't get to do this and she threatened to quit And so they said no, no, you can't quit you have to come back and so she comes back And she stays a few more years and she becomes an instrumental person in getting open office open source And all of the other engagements that sun has had so she's one of the big reasons my son is Was so involved with open source at the time She's now at PayPal by the way. She's the head of open source This is sarah sharp I don't know if you guys heard the name But if you follow what's going on with the linux kernel, you probably have sarah sharp Is the creator and the former maintainer of the usb 3 library in the linux kernel Which is really really cool. She's got 10 years of experience under her belt And she's also involved in uh Foss women outreach. So freedom of the software women outreach. She's a really cool lady She's also the person who stood up to the star balls and said hey, you're kind of not being very nice So this was the girl Lots of respect for her This is karen sandler karen is also a contributor of about 10 years So she spent a decade writing code for open source software development. She was also the general counsel at the free software Free software law center So, you know that the free software foundation has grown over the last few years since stallman started it and now the free software foundation has a Law branch that helps open source software developers Fight for their rights and the licenses that they have chosen So fight for the right to Have their software recognized as free open source software and she was one of the general counsel She's also the executive director of the gnome foundation for quite a while And now she's involved in the gnome outreach program for women. We have This is elizabeth joseph She is famous for her work from uh, you know, boon too. She's literally written the book on a boon too And she's also involved in open stack. She's got about 12 years of experience under her belt Um, she runs a boon to women for those of you who are interested to join and finally, uh, this is linda lucas so linda is um Linda's ruby developer. She is also one of the co-founders of rails girls for those of you who Who know what that is and i'll talk a bit more about rails girls later Um, she also wrote a programming book for kids called hello ruby and she was recognized in 2013 as a ruby hero Incidentally, she's going to be in singapore this summer So if you want to come see her The red dot ruby conference is happening in june and she's one of the key speakers And maybe you it's on time, right? Okay, so myth number three. So that was the easy stuff, right? So I think most of you guys know this Myth number three the fact that free software development is completely altruistic So so far all we've talked about is how all these people have an ideological mission To make software free and accessible share it with everyone, you know that information should be free And you're probably wondering why there's so many people doing this out of the goodness of their hearts And the truth is that they're not really yes, they are but it's not just about that so um This is econ's one one, right? supply and demand graph so You are the economic value of a good depends on both How much supply you have and how much demand there is, right? So you don't charge people for air because there's enough supply to go around for now Even though there's a very high demand, right? On the other hand, there are things that are in very short supply in Singapore like water Right, and so prices are adjusted accordingly um And so one of the main problems in providing a common resource for everyone to share and to be able to just Share things with with the rest of the world is this problem of scarcity, right? Because If you share something with other people then you're taking a piece away from yourself But what happens when you have a digital good when you have a digital good? If I give you a piece of if I give you a copy of the software I don't lose the ability to use that software But you gain the ability to use that software and that's an interesting reversal of this dynamic because this means That the financial incentives change dramatically so if If resources were scarce then free writing is a problem, right? Because if I'm giving stuff away and people are not giving back then My resources would be depleted pretty quickly if I had a piece of pie and I gave it away to everyone else Then everyone else doesn't give anything back to me. I end up being hungry But if my piece of pie could be cloned like you can clone a software piece of software Then I get to keep my piece of pie and you get to have a piece of pie, right? So it doesn't matter whether you give anything back to me because you get to keep that piece of pie. Here's a more realistic example So this is an idea This is sort of a post scar city movement So now digital goods are all not scarce goods because the fact of reproducing it doesn't cost you anything Except for that initial cost of production So if I have a program that I have written and it fixes a particular need it fills a particular need that I have If I keep it to myself fine If I put it online and a million people download it and no one contributes I'm in the same position, right pretty much if I put it online million people Million people downloaded one person makes a change that I hadn't noticed I win, right So it's it's basic economics. It doesn't take anything away from me, but it gives me something in return And so this is sort of the idea that Eric Raymond wanted to emphasize So Eric Raymond, if you remember is the guy who who stepped in and said, wait, wait, wait, wait Let us travel. It does not scale very well Yeah, so we need we need a version control system We need something like git so we switch to git bitkeeper and then we switch to git So this is the guy who got that started Eric Raymond is also the guy who started the opens for software initiative And so, you know when you talk about opens for software, there's free and opens for software So the free part belongs to stallman the open source part belongs to this guy And the reason that they're put together like that is because they have two very fundamentally different ideologies So what Eric Raymond says is you know what people should have the right to sell software if that's what you want to do That's fine But the thing is Open source software is structurally economically more sound Than full source software. So it's a very different principle. It's not a moral obligation to share software It's a very practical economic one. It's simply better to do it that way Yeah And so he founded the opens for software initiative And now this is the initiative that keeps track of all the open source software licenses and there's a tons of them That are compliant with the sort of general idea gpl is one of them One of the things that he says is Obligatory kitten gift So one of the things he says is that given enough eyeballs all bugs are going to look shallow So if there are enough people looking at a problem, someone's going to be able to see that There's an issue if there are enough people looking at a problem Someone's going to see that there's a security flaw if there are enough people looking at problems Someone's going to say hey, why are you doing it this way? Should we be doing it if we're doing it another way? Um, and uh, Raymond calls this Linus as well. Linus Torvald The other thing that happens is Safety in numbers So why wouldn't someone say a company come along and say, okay, you know what you guys have done great work You know, you put together this beautiful piece of software. I'm going to take it and I'm going to use it and I'm going to stay within whatever license that you guys have Set up, but I'm not going to give anything back to the project So I'm just going to take it and go you would say, okay, that's fine. You know, that's your prerogative But the thing is that doesn't happen as often as you might think and the reason for that Is there's a very strong incentive for you not to split a project There's a very strong incentive for you not to fork a project and the reason is that the more people you have contributing to something the better So imagine this if you are Contributing to a project with lots and lots of people then you're getting patches all the time. You're getting updates and If you fork that project Then you are the one who has to maintain That project you are the one who has to do all of those updates You are the one who has to figure out how to grow this project and move it forward, right? So normally you would only do that if you have enough support within the community You would only do that if you're sure enough that there's going to be people behind you. So for a company Maybe that makes sense some of the time But a lot of the time what makes more sense is to say, hey, you know what? We're going to use this We're going to make changes when we find stuff and we're going to send those changes back to you So that you can integrate it into your code and we can stay up to date on your version Because that makes more economic sense Yeah, and finally All of these things together actually make a bigger hole. So The fact that the environment is transparent the fact that everyone can see what's going on The fact that there's open access the fact that there are open licenses that make sure that people continue to have open access to source code And the fact that people are sort of more or less self interested What that creates is an economy where people are sort of doing things for themselves But it's contributing to a much bigger picture Right, um, what do I mean by doing things for themselves? So sure there are people who contribute to open source software because it's a Good and moral thing to do. It's a way to share things with the world But in general There are a lot of personal reasons why this might be interesting A lot of people contribute to open source software because they want to learn something So, um, if I want to learn how to if I want to learn a new language if I want to learn how to build something A lot of people contribute because they want a sense of community or they want people To feed into what they're working on because like I said more people working on a problem is better Right, so you want to share it with the world So that's somewhat that one person out of a million can come in and say hey, you know what you you miss something So that's good for me too. And finally a lot of people contribute because it's really good for your work It's really good for you professionally So imagine this you're a software developer You contribute to an open source software project. What does that tell your employer or a potential employer? It tells them a That you are of a technical level that is good enough to be able to contribute to an open source software project You can jump in you can figure out a code base And you are critical enough to know that there is an issue and you can fix it Right, that's sort of like interview step one or maybe even interview step two, right? And if you can demonstrate that say in a github profile Or in some other way in a prominent project That's basically your seeding, right? So for a lot of people, this isn't just a past time for a lot of people. This is a way of life This is an engagement. This is something that really grows you as a person This helps you to learn but it also helps you financially and in your career And finally the last myth that you must be really really good to get started This is not true Everyone is always learning in the ecosystem. So there are lots of different ways that you can contribute It's true that if you want to jump in and make a change to Firefox that probably might take a while to figure out But there are other things that you can do At this point, I guess I can tell you a little story on my own So I told you guys that I've been working with within this sphere for about 10 years and When I got my first Linux CD, I knew nothing about computers So I literally had someone hold my hand and walk me to the computer store and say Okay, she needs this this this this this and without an operating system And he hands me a bunch of CD and goes not have fun Okay And so what started what started me off was this combination of having to use an open system that I've never learned before The fact that the system was open meant that I could Figure out whatever I needed to so all the documentation was there everything was open I could literally look under the hood of something and say hey Okay, this is how it works So I started looking at WordPress Because I started the blog and I found myself tweaking the template of the blog a lot more than I was blogging in it So I started building websites and then I started looking at how servers are built And then I started looking at how my operating system was built And it sort of spiraled there Yeah, and all of that is possible because all of these projects were open Because WordPress allowed me to look under the hood and say oh, this is how this is built because my open source Operating system allowed me to look under the hood and modify things and say hey look. This is how it works Okay, let me change it. So I've learned about every step of the Software development from just looking at open source software. It's It's a fantastic tool So if you want to get started I'd say start subscribing to some mailing lists first figure out what people are talking about figure out what what the issues are Figure out what people need You can also start by writing about documentation. Nobody likes to do documentation Yeah, um, you probably don't either if you are a software developer But this is a really easy way to get started. You're going to be loved Okay, you can also do artwork and you do UX. So this is a bit tricky because um Not all projects necessarily need this or want this and not all projects will necessarily be convinced that you know If you are a UX expert that this is something they should implement because of course that that involves resources So you could if you take that upon yourself as a personal project that you need to make sure that developer time Is something that you are aware of So if you're going to make suggestions about how to improve things People expect you to be the one to be able to implement them You could do web development for a project. You could organize meetings and events Like some people here You could write plugins for things because that's really easy to get started. So for WordPress you could write plugins ruby gems That makes it really easy. No, it makes it really easy for you to write Small snippets of code as well There's also lots of different engagements like the google summer of code and i'll talk a bit about that in the end And firefox has mentored bugs. This is really fun So firefox has newbie friendly bugs that are labeled and it also has mentored bugs So if you want to get started if you want to sort of play around with things a little bit Then people have already labeled this for you. People have already said look, this is something you can look at This is a good starting point. This is something you can try to address Yeah And the mentored bugs actually have someone attached to them There are much fewer bugs than there are newbie friendly bugs, but there's tons of newbie friendly bugs This is a really good way to get started. Of course, you can also open source your own project Whatever you're working on and see what happens, right? so What i'll leave you guys with is a couple of things that you could Think about getting engaged in so the google fork I need to scholarship is the Google I need to borrow scholarship Is available here and I think applications are open until somewhere in me So if you are still studying if you're in the software If you're doing anything connected to computer as a software, then this is something you should apply for The real squirrel summer of code has just closed the applications I don't know if there's going to be another one this year, but you should definitely try next year um the aida initiative of camps several times a year and There's also no outreach. This is not a typo So all of those women that I talked about They all come together and they put all of those different women's outreach associations into one big project So noam outreach. He is just called outreach. He foss outreach. He you can just type in any one of those You're going to get the right thing. Okay, you can get involved with them um It's actually all I have so you want to get in touch ask me whatever you want Thanks We have time You want to play a game? Yeah, that's okay. All right. Let's play a game. Um, so I want you guys to to get up and uh Yeah, of course it involves getting up. I mean, what do you think we're gonna do? All right, um, stay where you are So what you're gonna need to do is you're gonna need to work together with your side of the room So this is this is imagine there's a wall here And you need to figure out how many people on the other side of the wall Have pets without talking to them Have pets So you you can do anything you want but you can't talk to the other side of the room. So the line is here Just raise your hand All right, so we know on this side we've got three That's so bad But we know the answer already The game is of the game is to know what the other side of the room is Not optimistic I think we should do the same thing everybody That's very good Okay, very popular in this Okay All right, so this side has three pets. What about this side two two, okay, so Um, you can sit down So what was what was the point of me getting you to do this the point was that um, you probably noticed some of the day I was right. So uh, the first thing someone said was you know, just think of your hands, right? So, um power of the people good, but that also means that you let them know how many Pets you have without knowing how many pets they have right, which is exactly what you said You said, well, Kayla, we win, right? Then we don't need to do anything, right? Yeah Um, this is a problem of the comments, right? This is a problem of collaboration This is exactly the kind of thing that we've been talking about today But I think that you'll find in general when you put a bunch of people together and you try to solve a problem It works out a lot better than you think. All right. Thanks guys So if you have questions, please feel free to raise your hand. Tell us yes about yourself It's open source And as uh, the thing is that we are high very hard. What do you mean by traction? So get involved or Basically, I'll describe. So what we have is this is uh, I joined the metaphor if KL was caught up you know So and now we're trying to you know, just do this Just try our hand and do this project together and we just created this project You guys are running a rails go there as well, right? You guys are running rails go there as well. Uh, I have no idea Sorry continue Yeah, and um, it's rare. We came together for one meeting and we tried to wire frame mobile app and That's basically pretty good. And um, you know, the few weeks after that we tried to come together and we all have ideas and um developers Not that many of us but still we still try and um, but it's very hard to get the traction. We have the base we have Kind of like a very simple with okay, we have ideas. Okay, let's try using this part of the resource and um, I maybe like use another part of The test rack if I don't know if you heard of test rack So it's an OCR and we try to use it, but um Nobody has actually dared to actually go in and basically just write anything substantial Why didn't that is I know you're asking me this question. Yeah, why do you think that is did you're just always afraid to break things So I think One of the things you're probably afraid of is the fact that there's a lot to do, right? So how do you negotiate those things? How do you work together To build something that's really complex even though there's so many of you and you're not really needing together, right? Most of the time that problem is solved in the open source software with modularity So breaking things down into small pieces. So, um, what is the smallest thing that you can do? And then build on top of that build on top of that What is the most simple thing that you can do rather than what's the most complex? A lot of projects start out a lot of successful projects set out as very simple things There are some exceptions But more often than not like linux it started out as one and one of my projects is something you can do by yourself Right, and then people started to add on and more and more and more So think about how you can split this up into things that one person can do And then that gives outputs that the other person can use in whatever they're doing Right does that make sense? Any other questions? Yeah It goes to a proprietary software but there is official budgets and this Is that for open source software things just, you know, take, you know, obviously, uh, you know, that sort of thing That's true sometimes. I think it depends on the organization structure a little bit So I think your file is very sort of distributed. I think I like to again But um, if you look at things like point 2, they have very regular release cycles They have uh things that happen very very quickly You you can count on a release happening at such and such time So one of the one of the reasons is organization fact that someone can say, hey, we're not going to this Of course canonical also pays some of the developers to work on this whole time Um, but even if you didn't that's actually a very small percentage So the fact that people are paid to develop free software is sort of the exception But more towards your question, um I seen a lot of folks talk about that as one of the as one of the really big problems um, and I think what It sounds like to me is it boils it boils down to how you can make the job of the container easier Right, so if you can break this down into things where they can go, oh, okay Right, so imagine if you're the maintainer and you are reading your patch Is it something that you can skim through on your way to work? Is it something that you can look at while you're on the bus while you're brushing your teeth and whatever Yeah, so make it something that's really easy to digest just like with any piece of writing And if you can do that then you more like you get that accepted because it frees up the The workload person because then they don't have to think okay, what is it? What is it you're trying to do? Okay, but what if it affects this what if it affects that if you do that mental work for them, they can just go, okay So I mean without knowing the details it sounds like that's something I want to try Any other questions? I'm sort of invading your space here And some of you guys like But um So I I study conflict I study conflict conflict within teams and What I what I look at in particular is whether that's a good thing or bad thing for the team Because I think if you follow it up, you tend to see a lot of discussions about how you know Everyone is being really mean and let's not all be so mean to each other and can we all get along and start developing some code Please right that's sort of the gist, but it turns out that conflict is actually So, um, you know how it talks about transparency earlier and the fact that everyone can see what you're doing So the fact that everyone can see what you're arguing about is also really important The fact that you've documented this argument before Sometimes it will happen again Sometimes you can have things dry gone for years and sometimes it's a feature Sometimes there just isn't a good person to make a decision When there's too many people who try to make a decision it doesn't generally work out very well But a lot of the time if you have this documented a lot of the time What it helps to do is it helps to flesh out issues that you didn't know were there Which doesn't necessarily happen in a closed source environment Because you have higher peaks you have Procedures you have deadlines you have things you need to follow you don't have time to talk about More idealistic things you don't have time to talk about well the what ifs and I think that's what makes open source Does that answer your question? There isn't so there's free software and there's open source software. So free software is The movement that Richard Stallman started and open source software is the movement that Eric Raymond started the guy with the keyboard Sometimes there is too little about the chrome and chromium Yeah As I heard chromium is more than the chrome Yeah, so chrome is not open source software chromium is Chromium is the project that just like android itself is not open source software, but it's built on Linux And so there's a version of android that's open But not the what you get in your phone is not necessarily open source software. So it's the same thing So there's freeware there's things that you get for free, but you don't necessarily have access to the source code Like unix in the earlier example, right? And then there's free software in the free software foundation definition, which might be a little bit confusing. So free isn't Free isn't speech not free isn't dear, which is what people often say, right? So free isn't I'm allowed to give it to you. You can see what's going on with it And open source software is literally the idea of being able to look under the hood And it doesn't have any assumptions morally or ideologically So the difference between free software and open source software is a kind of an ideological one. So the free software guys say This is a moral imperative. This is something that we need to do in order to sustain Our economy in order to sustain our Development whereas the open source guys are like, yeah, well if I want to sell software I should be able to sell software, but it's actually better if it's open source for Reasons of quality for reasons of people working together and and all of those reasons that we talked about That's about how to market and how this is for you, you know, and I hope to get people involved To developers, yeah, get them to use it Get them to use it, yeah Honestly And I think the reason you're laughing is because you probably know that too. Yeah So most people who contribute are people who use it on a daily basis And that's how you find problems. You get comfortable and out with the system and you go, ah, okay Wait, that doesn't work the way that I want it to. How can I fix that? Again, it's that selfish interest. So Make it make sense for them Why would they contribute their valuable time? So the software itself is not the valuable aspect anymore. It's the time that you put it I think we're done. Thank you so much one actually has Yeah, any announcements so if you guys are organizing like you guys are organizing your own tech meetups or You have a job opening at your company. You want to share with us or what else? You have announcement about yeah, um three things Next Tuesday is the Ruby meetup Please come it'll be really fun We have a bunch of talks lined up. It's going to be at the National Design Center in Boogitz There's also going to be pizza Two there's a Rails Girls happening every month in Singapore in case you you didn't know So if you want to get started if you want to learn more it's mentored. So there are actually people there to help you Um, and that happens at the end of every month So the next one is going to be the same week as the Ruby meetup, but on Saturday So right or is it this Saturday? It should be next Saturday Okay, anyway, they have a meetup group. You can go and check it out. It's just RSVP Okay, uh number three red dot Ruby conference is coming in June So like I said, Linda Lucas is going to be there. Um, Matt is going to be there Um, Aaron Patterson is going to be there and a bunch of other people So if you're a Ruby people or if you're interested to learn more about Ruby, that's Just search for rig dot Ruby conference. Yeah early bird tickets are still on sale If you buy in bulk Yeah Some of the githubbers coming down to Singapore We will Programmed called a workshop called patchwork that is originally initiated by Jess Jay Lord Jessica She's a one of githubbers So it probably won't be on a weekend The week before after So Please watch out for it and come and join us Even if you are We will set up some beat up group and facebook group for you to sign up At the moment we don't have anything yet because we're too busy for confirmation from the githubbers Even if they do not come we will still gonna go ahead and run it If you are familiar with contributing to open source projects, please come and uh help us We will share it on our facebook group when he shares the link with us Yeah, so just it's a patchwork Yeah, you can probably follow the twitter account. So um red dot rubicon has a twitter account and they also have a website So you can find most of the information there. So if you google for red dot rubicon, you should be able to sign up Yeah Just It's like what spotify and tender That's really interesting So If you're interested at working in the intersection of spotify and tender So i'm in the pet industry Yeah, so i'm in into hardware and making um automated pet training devices So if anybody is um, you can do like electronics or even like app development Please stop to read anything for us into the group That's a big privilege My name is Devin I hope you take lots of things as a final product, please for all of us One more So I am representing data kind Okay, if you have the meetup website or the meetup.com app, you can look for data kind in singapore Okay, as the name suggests We are actually a group of pro bono data scientists Um So this weekend is our major event. We call it data dive So effectively we are helping two organizations. One is home HOME that deals with uh migrant workers and their specific issues The other organization that we're dealing with is earth hour Okay, this year unfortunately because of Some national events Our earth hour didn't take place in singapore, but for the rest of the world It's due to place as planned Okay, so what it is is that this friday evening We are going to have an introductory session networking session The main actual coding would be the whole of saturday and whole of sunday Okay, now if you go to the meetup.com A page for data kind. It's already full house Now there's a reason for it because we need to cater food But if you can take care of the food yourself, you're more than welcome We need more hands. We need more brilliance, okay, so and then of course Being good girls more ladies Because it's very imbalanced now in bar in bar, you know, so um, yeah So please do do come and join us. It's at the Fuji Xerox building Just at the edge of CBD Okay, um Yeah, so do consider the information are all on the meetup, but don't sign up there because it's full house ready. Thank you Oh, sorry. Yes, of course. Yeah, it's great. There is a big data as you meet up here as well So you're going to pick it up stuff and they have two visiting speakers from overseas So if I interested in this kind of stuff go to facebook. This is from big data And you'll see the event details and it will be the same place So we will kind of share about all these events on our facebook page so you can just Like our page if you want to see more Um, yeah, I think that's about it. Um, we are also looking for volunteers. Um, if you can coach or start a workshop Please come and talk to me if you want to teach and get more women in tag Uh, that's something that you know, we're all here all doing this if you want to mentor real girls Girls If there are any free software developers among you, I'd love to talk to you more for research and for and for pleasure