 Susan Smith has been arrested and will be charged with two counts of murder in connection with the deaths of her children Michael 3 and Alexander 14 months. Today we're going to talk about Susan Smith and she went to prison for murdering her two children by putting me in the car and pushing down ramp into a lake and they drowned. So it's tough finding videos on these but Greg tell us what you found. Yeah so most of these videos occurred during the nine days that she pretended someone had hijacked her car or carjacked her and taken her children tied in two back seats and she actually pushed them down a boat ramp and they died in the car and were found later after she confessed. This video as Scott said is not the best quality video but it's all there is and this is a case that's 20 years old. We've had many requests for this. Every time we bring up a murdering mother this one comes up. Greg what do you got? Yeah so right off the beginning of this it might be true that she wants to hug them she wants to do this she wants to do that but she's eye-blocking. There is not a single bit of grief there's no concern nothing in the forehead there's no snot no tears it's the worst kind of fate. Scott I'm so sorry you really don't like what I did. That's all it is this is garbage. Chase what do you got? Yeah I agree with you. So this eye closure is not from the crying this is exactly what you just said Greg this is avoidance. There's no movement here in the chin boss which we always see when we see shame and grief. There's a hygienic gesture during the crying and it's not to wipe tears which is very unusual so adjusting your hair while crying doesn't look very good so she's kind of just pushing her hair back there that's what we call in the behavior business a hygienic gesture and she said I just want to hug them and she has had a tough childhood and I think there's a baton gesture she does with her hand as she's talking her hands back here. I think it's her left hand and something that we always look for is things that don't line up Scott talks about this in a lot of the other videos when a gesture doesn't really match up with a person's phrases the Desmond Morris called this a baton gesture and what I think is interesting here is that the gesture doesn't match up with anything that's going on doesn't match up emotionally tonally like with the tone of her voice or the cadence or the words that she's saying so I would like to invent a new a name for what we're seeing here where it doesn't match up with anything and just call it gesture arrhythmia. Okay I called it illustrator not alignment or something like that word alignment in there for those very good past yeah I think this is this gesture isn't associated with sadness or grief or loss or anything there and that's all I got for this video Mark what do you see yep so I agree there is what I would call incongruence but I think you're talking about some extreme incongruence where it just doesn't really match up with anything so misalignment arrhythmia I think they're all good descriptions of that here's what jumps out at me I I I them then the grooming that you were talking about there I them them I so there's way more eyes than them there they're a collective there's not even any names of the children so it's very egocentric at this point the male is very different from the female different rhythm going on not joining in with this this crying you know even if it is you know kind of fake he's not even joining in not joining in with anything real or fake here and I think he gives a sour taste in his mouth as well so I think there is some strong differences between the male and the female here female here very self-centered in the description there and the grooming as you say Chase is just it's just not applicable in this situation at all Scott what do you go on this one all right she's moving really slow this lets us know that she's there's a lot going on up here she's thinking through what she's going to say she she doesn't really she's not really experiencing these emotions so we're not seeing him on her face she's she's showing us what she thinks we that we want to see or should be seeing at this point when you compare Susan with her husband do this throughout all these videos when he's in there too dramatic I remember I remember when this happened I remember when she got busted or soon before she got busted because the we'll see a video I'll tell you that story when we get to that video because it's it's I'll never forget I'll never forget that day and everything is based on feel sorry for me it's all about me and and and just feel sorry for me I you're right marks I me it's all about me at this point and when you turn the sound off as you'll see in all these videos if you'll do this she looks like she's retiring from a job somewhere or she these are the same faces you see in the same emotions you don't see that you're not saying what someone's retiring or someone is leaving a job and they're telling everybody goodbye that's what it looks like it doesn't look like somebody who's grieving over their children and it doesn't look like that at all the stress we're seeing is when she's moving slow and not looking up the camera and not connecting with anyone so these are all we're all we're seeing a bunch of stress on her rightfully so because she's not telling the truth here but she's sort of creating this I think she had a pretty good idea of what she was gonna say but that was it I don't think she rehearsed this at all when she get when it before it came down to a game time for show time for all right got I disagree with one thing you said fully what there's a lot going on in her head I disagree okay I stay corrected can't sleep I can't I can't do anything but think about it I want to say it to my babies that your mama loves you so much and your daddy this whole family's love you so much and you guys have got to be strong because you are what I just know I just feel in my heart okay but you got to take care of each other and your mom and daddy gonna be right here waiting on you when you get home I'm gonna go first on this one because it goes back to that video our last video when I was telling you about something happened when this happened when this video came out there are two versions of this video we I couldn't spend all night last night looking for the second version of it it's a wider shot of everybody and it's got family members members other people in it and she's talking her eyebrows are up look at everyone else they show concern their eyebrows are down like this they're thinking oh my no you know my lord what's happened that's when my this is for you and had cell phones you know or before I had one anyway my phone started ringing and it was everybody I knew going did you just see that on did you just see that on the news you just see Susan Smith I was like yeah we're all like holy smokes man she's going to the pokey because she did this and when you when you watch this again when you when you watch the replay at least look at her husband that's really the only you can see in here look at his eyebrows that's what her should be doing showing concern she shows no concern and again this is all about her the content is all focused on her on me on I listen to what she's saying no brow no brow movement in there no no expressions really of anything nothing much moving at all and there's no plea to the kidnapper you know and she's telling these little children one of them is three and the other one is a year and a half and she's saying look take care of each other really if you ever said that to a three-year-old and the other one you two take care of each other you kidding me if they saw it you know your mother's now she now she stepped in here so no anger no nothing we're seeing none of the emotions or expressions we should be seeing here so that's a law and her eyes especially with her eyebrows they shouldn't be up they should be down she should be focused and telling whoever's got her children that they're going to find them and they need to bring them back that's what should be going on there okay chase what do you got even even better I fully agree with that she met this alleged person who did this she spent time with this person face to face so that even makes it a worst case for the vanishing perpetrator and what we're seeing here there's showing of this more eye contact avoidant behavior which is what she did what she's doing this is not avoiding to stop herself from crying at all and I think it's interesting note that she does this while she her eyes are staying at kind of five o'clock you can see where her eyes are looking at a certain direction there which suggests internal dialogue and not any emotion going on and when does the chin boss move it moves a couple of times here it moves when she's talking about herself and how good she is as a mother and while she's saying a lot of this stuff we have lip licking there's right at the end here lip licking there's lip retraction lip licking is to make ourselves look better lip retraction is typically a need for reassurance right there at the end and there's a complete lack of emotion so I want you to go look and see what's missing here if if a person if she had met and witnessed a person take her children what's really missing from this conversation what's being hidden and this is what's being hidden from this is the perpetrator so when there's data being hidden that's a huge red flag should be for anybody uh Greg what do you think yeah I'll take it a step further she didn't just meet him she described even had an artist draw a picture and it was all bs it was all made up but here we see no grief no concern she stumbles through words because she's trying to think of what to say I interestingly Scott you say her brows aren't down they're up but they're not even up they're just flat they're emotionless that's even worse if she was going like this or shock or something we might feel good about it the only time I see any concern in her brow at all is when she says I know you are okay and her brows do something odd you get a little flash of something right between her brows because she knows he isn't now we often will talk about lipping a lip licking and that but Desmond Morris talked about something called a tongue jut and he said it's baby's first way to reject something or something distasteful to push out we're going to see her do the Morris tongue jut not just this time but other times too when she talks about your mama and your daddy and she goes like that that's a that's a Morris tongue jut all day then she bites her lip as she draws it back in and I think that might be containment or an adapter this is ugly this is there's nothing good in anything she's doing and to your point Scott the husband looks just like he's out of touch with everything now he's also they're estranged before she does this one thing you should know is they believe that the reason she disposed of her children is because somebody she had had an affair or at least a starting relationship with didn't want children sound familiar mark what do you got uh yeah i'll tell you what's missing for me chase and you know whatever's missing for all of you and you know put it down there but um it's all eye block as far as I can see so there's zero from this angle for me there's zero eye contact with that potential audience who might have information on where her kid is you know I would expect and if it were me you know to be making a lot of eye contact with the public and trying to get information across is here's who we're looking for and if you know anything all of those standard things I'm getting none of that um yeah the lip licking the biting as well they're very out of the ordinary for what we saw from her before so they kind of come out of nowhere that rings the alarm bells it's around when you get home so there's something about that that push on when you get home and the lip bite there that's alarming for me as well biggest alarming thing for me is when I usually see you know a couple or a mother or father or any kind of you know primary caregiver who is in this situation the emotions collide it's quite complex there's a lot going on because they're trying to get information across as well they've got the job of trying to contact the audience they've got this job of trying to hold themselves together while doing that their mind is in a thousand places trying to understand what might be happening with this kid here you know regardless of what emotion she's doing or isn't doing it's super simple what's going on it's too simple as far as I'm concerned now often what we get is with this collision of emotions it's quite complex and and often observers will look at it and go oh there's something up there there's something up because it's not easily understandable I usually expect it to not be easily understandable because this is a situation that no human being on the planet has rehearsed for they haven't had that moment of well you know what when my kids go missing here's how I'll handle my feelings here's how I'll understand this situation well she's handling herself in a very simplistic way here that rings alarm bells for me that's all I got in that one have we all we all been yeah good I want to say to my babies that your mama loves you so much and your daddy these whole families love you so much and you guys have got to be strong because you are I just know I just feel in my heart you're okay but you got to take care of each other and your mom and daddy are gonna be right here waiting on you when you get home I'll be getting haircut this week this hat'll go off come off it's like a take on me he said no he didn't have time because they were in car seats and it was going to take time for me to get my car seat and um he just told me he said but I won't hurt him and he just took off but he had to go and then my my big thing is they were screaming and crying and I'm just scared that he just lost his patience or something all right Greg what do you got so let me tell you that when people go through trauma especially something like losing a child they're going to have really mixed emotions mark you're really good at pointing out that not everybody reacts the same I think what you see though is a lot of difficulty containing emotions there'll be things bleeding all over a person's face from none of this kind of duress there should be some negativity in their forehead and that kind of thing but we can't tell you exactly what's going to happen what we don't see usually in a person who has experienced what she has experienced is this normal kind of conversational tone because there'll at least be some stress to the voice and those kinds of things there's no storyboard on her face at all though again there's no grief no concern no anxiety no stress she's telling a story this is rehearsed and prepared and as much as she could and you can see she'll look over and try to recall a couple of words we're going to see her do that again and then she throws out details again I always say the truth doesn't need support but lies love a crutch this is a crutch well he had a gun and well the kids were in the back seat and they were strapped in so he he didn't want to take the time and there's that and um Desmond Morris tongue jot again here we go blink rate goes up she's getting a little amusement in her face or something like she thinks she's getting away with it and the only time she shows any emotional accessing is when she says screaming hollering and crying and she looks down and to the right my guess is that's real that's exactly what she heard is them screaming and yelling as they're banging on the windows trying to get out of the car she pushed them in and then she uses the most illogical thing I've ever heard he had a gun so I had to let him take them okay I'll leave it at that Scott what do you got yeah listen to I agree with you a hundred percent listen to what she said she's talking about this conversation she had with this guy he said you know he had a gun he said he was you know he wouldn't hurt him he there's no conversation during things like that if this happened this quickly and this guy's adrenaline if this supposed guy his adrenaline is going to be just through the roof so is hers and she's going to be trying to protect the children she's not going to be trying to have this conversation about stopping him from taking the children she's going to be saying don't know those kind of things is she crawls back there and tries to protect the children that's why a lot of times these things get real ugly really fast with the person that gets you always hear a woman injured or a man injured whatever child was in the car because they don't want him to take the child I mean they have a car or whatever but there's no conversation going on there there's no room for that there's no time for that's completely made up and we're seeing confidence here I believe because she knows she's there's there's nothing that she can get drove before at this point she's rehearsed this answer you're right Greg and so we're seeing confidence she's just saying this here's the logically why this happened so it makes total sense to me I won't say she's not the smartest person in the world I always say that but that's why she's so calm is due to confidence and you're right Greg no concern nothing we're seeing we're not seeing the emotions we should see she's talking at a pretty good clip too so everything here I think she's confident with her answer at this point I think she doesn't think anything's going to happen to her mark what you got yeah great uh look this isn't the vanishing perpetrator here because she she knows for some reason the psychology of this perpetrator so given that we know this event didn't happen where's she getting the psychology from well I would suggest it's her psychology this is a Rorschach test essentially this is an ink blot she's got to create reasoning for why these things happen and she creates them for her own from her own reasoning didn't have time going to take time he lost his patience or something so here's what I'm gonna speculate don't know anything about this particular crime first time I've ever come across it there was some situation that was pushing her time and therefore that's why she did this act because she felt crushed by time and something had to happen quickly around this we hear time stated again and again and again about a situation that didn't happen she has to be getting that from what's at the forefront of her mind at the time which is time and patience and running out of time in some in some way it's a what we're seeing here in this story is a projection of her own psychology by the way that's just speculation I don't know that for sure but I'd be willing to give a good gamble on it chase what do you got on this one you know how I think we can tell this is rehearsed is she stays past tense the entire time and lots of people even smart people have a very tough time doing that so I think this is rehearsed that way there's a huge blink rate spike Greg you mentioned it in the original video just before this she was at about 22 and then it spikes to about 79 right when she kind of launches into this memorized story and there's a little bit of lip licking just before this deception story starts starts talking about this guy but think about how we use the word just the doctor says it's just gonna be it's gonna be a little hair pull or just a little pinch or I say what'd you do what'd you do on Tuesday you said I just went to work the word just means that's it and it's not that big of a deal and that's it and that's how we use the word just so let me just give you a few instances of that here in this just this one clip it's just let me take them he just told me just took off let him I can't remember what he said but there's two there's three more uses of the word just in here I was just scared as what she said and the whole entire thing she's just using that over and over and over to say that's all there is to make us just jump over I've used it twice now over that story as fast as we possibly can so that's all I got on that one he said no we didn't have time because they were in car seats and it was going to take time for me to get in my car seat and um he just told me he said but I won't hurt him and he just took off but he had a gun and then my my big thing is they were screaming hollering crying and I'm just scared that he just lost his patience or something you there at the time and do you know what they were looking for no ma'am I was not there and I do not know I I did agree sign a form for them to do that I was aware they were going to do that and I understand that's just one of the normalities they have to do and any investigation all right chase what do you got we see a little internal dialogue just to come up with the word normality or maybe to recall that word normality which I'm sure she's heard from a lawyer or something I think it's a good example of her usage of this eye movement for her so if you see her eye movement in this video uh a lot of the eye movement you'll see is most likely truthful because she may not understand some of this stuff or she understands that this is a normality as part of this and that's all I got Scott okay I think she's I don't have much on this one at all she's just calm this is she's thought about what she's going to say and she's she's ready for the threat that's why her head's back like that and she looks a little bit cocky because she's prepared for the threat there because she's got her answer prepared that's all I got on that one mark what do you got yeah you're right it's it's back rather than forward isn't it it's very non-urgent what's going you know if it were me if it were you like you'd be really urgent about this that my my center of gravity would be right forward because I'd be wanting to get into action and contact uh that that audience now in this particular situation it may be that there is no monitor in front of her um and so and so there might be some oddness there that she's getting a sound feed in somewhere there's nobody else to look at possibly I don't know but regardless of that the head is as you say Scott the head's back almost in arrogance there and so there could be that element of arrogance and it's certainly set too back to be to be non-urgent um there's lots of non-contractions in there so you know the fullness of the word that's kind of odd she's very civil during this so she's very agreeable uh and and she says I did agree to that uh normality so I would say she's trying to socialize the normal acceptable situation here she's trying to convince us here you know what nothing to look at very normal situation going on here where in me or you we'd be like there is nothing normal about this we have I have not rehearsed for this moment in my life I don't know what I'm doing here I just got to get information out to the public out there about let's let's help me help me help me there's none of that very odd uh Greg what do you got on this one yeah I think she just ain't too swift I think what she's doing is she's sitting there while we're giving her credit for holding her head up in arrogance she's back against the back of the chair braced she's ready for what's coming I think she she is afraid of this woman and you'll see it more in some of the others when she's on that couch she's braced she's rigid and wooden and her heads up kind of in fear rather than in you know we always think of covering our throats but then again some people don't and if they think they're trying to look natural they look more wooden as they lock themselves down she's overly polite which makes me think the same thing when somebody's overly polite and they're on their best behavior and they're trying to use their most polished language like normalities or some others will hear her used we're getting her trying to appear to be helpful she's on her best behavior her blink rate is through the roof and she's all that complicated language is her chance to try to look like she's being helpful and then the last thing for me is her brow and her brow doesn't move much but it raises it when she says I do not know just quickly like that I think she's scared and this is her chance to try to put on her best act put her best airs and try to get out of trouble she did this on three network news shows and this one I think is is this is Katie Kirk is this the one yeah so she did it all three that's it that's what I got you there at the time and do you know what they were looking for uh no ma'am I was not there and uh I did not know I I did agree uh sign a form for them to do that I was aware they were going to do that and I understand that's just one of the normalities they have to do and any investigation those sounds coming through here y'all no can't hear it what sounds all right Mila's wearing the cone of shame right now that's too bad so she's running into everything that's fine let's get let's get that lean in you ready oh oh yeah yeah let's go the next video sources closely investigations who's in uh to have told NBC news that federal agents are focusing in fact on the relationship between you and Mitchell Sinclair that the man that you were going to visit that night the man you said you were going to visit with your children uh they've told NBC that there were inconsistencies in your stories do you know what inconsistencies uh they were referring to uh no ma'am I really did not know that um all right chase what do you got and we see her stop herself from smiling here which is pretty unusual and I'm just going to leave that uh to you guys to walk to walk through and kind of dissect there is some pucker some lip compression there's licking there's lip retraction going on here which suggests all kinds of crap you guys can dissect that too but one thing I really want to pick on is watch her blink rate from before she hears the word relationship when she actually learns what the question is about and watch the change in blink rate before the word relationship and then after the word relationship and you will see a perfect example of what we always talk about and there's also some hesitancy here there's this qualifier where she uses the word really in the middle of her denial there's a non-contraction but please keep in mind we just saw an example of her most likely being truthful with a non-contraction and there's also some double access to internal dialogue to craft an answer and that would mean that there's accessing to internal dialogue remaking eye contact and then going back down again in quick succession which is also a pretty large red flag and we know this is deceptive already so I'll give my answer at 100% how about that Scott what do you think all right I thought when she said um do you know what inconsistencies what what inconsistencies were made or whatever I thought she's going to say do you know what inconsistencies means yeah and I laughed so hard after that because I thought she was talking down to her anyway at the top we see her lips you're right chase we see lip person we see retraction we see all kinds of things in there because what she's talking about she's she's it's catching her a little bit off guard because she brings up the guy she's seeing she wouldn't hear about that but at the same right before that she says something that makes her that it's like yeah it makes her feel like you know that's okay because she smiles at that point it's not duping delight because at that point she's not saying anything where she's duping anybody but we're there's a whole lot going on there so and especially when she gets back to the to the the part about the gas she's going to see watch there because we see full on a lip person there and that and that indicates that the that that person is uh doesn't agree with what's being said and she sees it as a threat also when you see her eyes darting around that indicates the person is going through and um processing the threat processing whatever is being said and getting and getting ready to as they structure their answer for that threat that's what we're looking at there um that's that's all i got on that one greg what do you got yeah that eye that eye movement can mean that she is processing information it can also mean that she is looking for an answer to something that she doesn't have i mean she's prepared for all this stuff and she's probably got something she wants to say there's also a high likelihood in her case that she can't hold a thought long enough to answer that question because if you watch how she behaves she rambles and does whatever and then throws out something here's what's interesting she's a low horsepower romancer because most romancers when they look at you they make really good eye contact she'll say something and make really quick eye contact and then break away again probably something that's a learned behavior she was in an abusive childhood and that kind of thing so there's probably some of that not making really solid eye contact um but that actual smile that she tries to hide is when she's thinking about this relationship where something comes up and then she breaks eye contact and does that tongue jet again is she going into memory is there something going on because then her blink rate goes through the roof her breathing goes up and she does that nervous confirming nod about the guy so it makes me think she's got some kind of positive thing going on her head about the guy but then realizes uh oh that was the wrong thing to do makes quick eye contact and does the the nod she does the mouth grooming and when she says no ma'am her brows flash we only see this eyebrow flash when she is doing something that's negative so far as far as i can tell mark what do you got yeah so i agree there is a complexity of emotions happening here which she hasn't rehearsed for delivering or controlling in any way so i think this idea of the boyfriend uh that comes up and and it there's a real emotion that comes with that and she doesn't know what to do with that and she suppresses that delight and it would be so easy to go to see that as juper's delight but scott you're absolutely right this is not juper's delight because it's the suppression of a real feeling of her imagining her boyfriend and she hasn't she hadn't prepared for this question in any way so there's this huge kind of collision in many ways you know this is her being very real with us because she's not good when not rehearsed of being simple enough and controlling her feelings so we get that suppression of delight and then she lets it out she hasn't fully managed to suppress it we get the liplic there's a lot of swallowing goes on there um non-contractions polite as well so some elements that we've seen before uh yeah i think that's all i have to say about that one sources close to the investigation susan uh to have told mbc news that federal agents are focusing in fact on the relationship between you and mitchell sinclair that the man that you were going to visit that night the man you said you were going to visit with your children uh they've told mbc that there were inconsistencies in your stories do you know what inconsistencies uh they were referring to uh no ma'am i really do not know that um okay that's good i mean i've had it i mean i i've after this long time i i just i just i just felt like i just it's just been so long i think if they were okay then they would have been failed by now but the hardest part is not knowing i mean you know and my heart just aches and i miss them so much i just can't express it and and it's it's just a tragedy and and i just play and play and play that they'll come home safe all right chase what do you got i hate to keep going no i keep going you on your first chase but as it ends up if i do the last person you know whoever went last but do them first then i'm trying not to do no matter wait ten i'm coming back all right greg what do you got so she's shaking her head no this is late in the nine day ride she's covered a whole lot of stuff during this time and she's gotten away with a whole lot this is the first time we see this and it isn't fitting for what she's talking about so i think she's like uh oh this is coming to an end because they've been questioning her over and over and over and over so something negative is rising her browser up again at it's a tragedy still no grief still no uncertainty still no questioning she makes eye contact at please come home again i think it's when she's trying to sell something and she does a throwaway word or a fading fact as you would call it scott at safe it just drifts off she knows that's not going to happen mark what do you got yeah so apart from that one moment where she clocks the audience with her eye contact on the whole she's in shade most of the time if not eye blocking most of the time so again there's a moment here you know if truly you had hope this would be another opportunity to be going you got any information here's you know get it to us we're in hope and and and clocking the audience directly she's in shade all of the time she says i every about every two and a half seconds so that's a lot of you know it's quite a longish clip that's a lot of the word i she does mention them again as a collective but doesn't mention the kids by name in any way the main focus of this is herself that's not what i would expect from somebody who is honestly concerned about their children at this point she's concerned about herself um yeah and then the use of the word tragedy it's like it takes a long long time for a human being to view the drama that they've been through as a as a tragedy a long long time this is too early for her to be able to pull out of this event and go look given given all of these elements that were in there i view this as a real tragedy so wrong vocabulary to use at this point scott what are you going on this one all right again what she's saying it's her it's all about her it's i over and over and over again and we're seeing trans behavior here because she's i think they've got her against the ropes at this point in in this part of the end of their interview we don't see the whole interview just this one part that's why she goes into oh i'm just and she starts saying the same things over and over and she's sort of rocking back and forth a little bit and goes inwards so you can't get to her and ask her more questions so we call that a trans behavior um her face seems like it's almost a rest in this thing it's if you if you turn the sound off you you may not even know anything's wrong here anything she would be worried about anything because again we're not seeing anything we should be seeing in here um her the whole answer again is focused on her it's all about her and that should be if you're if you're watching these things on tv and somebody comes up and you're looking at the parents and they're saying oh we don't have our our child this that and the other thing listen to how many times each one of them talks about themselves and how it's affecting them and listen if they focus on that because nine out of ten would say add eight out of ten times that person would have guilty knowledge when they're talking about themselves it's about me and it's about i and about those things so when you hear something like that when you see someone on tv and they're interviewing them and their child is just gone missing if they're talking about how much they feel about what's going on pay attention to that chase what do you got i love that and i completely agree it's such a great uh an interesting find that i think a lot of people would just kind of brush over because we we tend to think sociologically if somebody's in pain that's what they're going to talk about on tv so it makes sense to most people that if someone's just talking about themselves they're talking about what they're going through but it also is a huge red flag in this video we see no motion at all and she's injecting ambiguity instead of doubt or uncertainty and let me just talk about the difference really quick ambiguity means i'm launching uncertainty into this in a way that one thing could mean this or not mean something or i'm jumping over pieces doubt is comfortable with truthful people they're fine with saying i i'm not sure i don't know i'm really uncertain about this so think about that different innocent people are comfortable with doubt and uncertainty so in this video you guys talked about some of these words but think about how the words that she uses after the word i are injecting some ambiguity in here and here we have i mean i mean and i'm doing this in order i just i just i just i just it's just i think i mean you know i just it's just i just that's in this like super short video and that's tons of ambiguity being dumped into it so we're if someone's injecting ambiguity that's a big deal and it's just weird unusual smile at the very last tiny piece of this clip which i think you'll be able to see pretty clearly and greg if you would would you educate all of us on what you think about her eyes being kind of in this emotional accessing area throughout the video and just i was curious what you with i have it in my notes here that to ask you about it well i honestly think at this point she's in a bind she knows she's in a bind so yeah is she emotional yeah this is up that's why i say she's going i think it's all about her that's the reason she's using the word i the reason she's negative in the entire thing and then she does that throw away at the end come back safe she knows they're not coming back safe that's just trying to deliver some piece of information along the way i think her brain is a squirrel on the road right now and she doesn't know the right thing to say the reason you're hearing filler words like just just mean those are things because she's so engaged in how she feels and how dangerous this situation is for her is what i think chase i think i'm glad you and she knows yeah i'm glad you said that because i think one of the things that we're seeing here is her uh one of the statistics we see in behavioral psychology is that people who suffer as children which she did and she was abused and had a rough really rough time growing up they they have something called a dissociative capacity and some things if stress and hard lifestyle continues then that person becomes a champion dissociator to where dissociation becomes or where we're kind of separating from ourselves or going someplace else mentally becomes the default stress handling mechanism and i think that's exactly what we're seeing here is a dissociative response which is part of a disorder it's part of the diagnostic criteria for a histrionic personality disorder or histrionic disorders but there's i think some other stuff going on here too that we'll eventually get to that's all i got i may have had it i mean i'm after this long a time i i just i just i just it's just been so long i think if they were okay then they would have been fine by now but the hardest part is not no one i mean you know and my heart just aches and i miss them so much i just can't express it and and it's it's just a tragedy and and i just play and play and play that they'll come home safe right now we want to go to union to get the story first hand from Susan smith and her husband david susan how are you doing this morning uh doing okay uh very little sleep last night but i'm okay there was uh some news yesterday and and some promising leads in this case uh how are how are you coping with the disappointment of the news from yesterday um it was um i was running around my house yesterday morning all excited i really thought that they had uh had had really found something that was i really thought they found one of my children and um when i got to the courthouse and found out that the lead had um disintegrated or when there was nothing there i was very devastated very disappointed i got my hopes up and was let down but i haven't given up hope i you know that was maybe one of many disappointments but maybe the next gonna uh be be right mark what do you got yeah so she's very focused on her feelings and i'll go through those in a moment but i want to give a well not some credit but but put it in the context of there's two pretty bad questions that come forward in this the first one is how are you doing so the interviewer has asked for her emotion so we could kind of go well of course she's going to give her feelings because that's what she was asked and i'll come to that in a moment and then he goes well how are you coping with the disappointment so he even delivers her a feeling to attach to i would say terrible interviewing there unless you want to lead somebody into stating those emotions now of course she does she says very little sleep excited devastated disappointment disappointed so she lays in what she's been asked for hopes up let down many disappointments and she kind of ends on on that so she's been a little bit led on that now having said all of that what i do notice in uh interviews with people who are not the culprit the perpetrator the criminal in this sense is you can lead them into emotions and they instantly go to uh you know they don't necessarily say this is not about me but they take it off them and they naturally get on to uh find my kids they will get on to the kids immediately she doesn't find her way there she is led into her feelings and being self-centered so there is that going for her but she should be able to find her way out of that and she doesn't greg what do you got on this one yeah let's talk about leading her into something when you see her left eye accessing this time that's not her making up something that's her repeating a word she has heard disintegrate is not a word she uses that's a word that that one of the investigators said oh oh that lead disintegrated that's the way they got her in to talk to her just about guaranteed look at her this is where i'm talking about she's braced she's in a fighting position by that i mean when you're in the army you dig a hole you get in there you get your rifle and you defend yourself she's braced she's locked back in the chair she's buried she's got what i call egg protector in men we call it the fig leaf we cross our primary sex organs she's crossed her arm in front of her abdomen and she's locked down with her husband there and she's twitching fingers and doing all kinds of adapters her blink rate is through the roof and she's braced for whatever you're going to ask her she's ready for this whole thing she gets pressure and she does something we've only seen one other time on the entire behavior panel show and that's she does this pressured release of words at the end she's feeling pressure she rambles and when she's done she didn't edit so she's got words leftover that mean nothing might be right something is wrong right there be right with those leftover words something's wrong she had a plan which was going to say and it didn't come out correctly she tries to redirect and if you look and you really want to think about what would a person like this look like they wouldn't be pushed back against the chair if they've been through all this trauma they would look like him he's shocky you can see his brain can't comprehend what's going on never mind the tv camera might be part of it but she has none of that it's all just her it's all just her telling whatever story she came there for and the only place we see it's that pressure in the end and her using the wrong words uh chase what do you got yes i think uh she starts this video off in stress so when when this video starts again here's what you're going to see so you're watching this on your couch living room wherever you're going to see two things big time her respirations at around 20 to 23 her blink rate is at around 60 and keep in mind the average blink rate is like 13 15 somewhere in there everybody's a little different her she uses a three o'clock eye movement to answer this question so her eyes go to your three o'clock as you're watching it which is her baseline so that's her baseline she's probably genuinely recalling how she feels for just a moment here but i think her thumb is a great reliable indicator and she's using her thumb as a pacifier a little bit with her husband but with the the biggest red flag in this entire interview and its entirety is her saying i think they they might have found one of my children one of her just saying that is a huge indicator that this is something is way off in this and then there's a uh super increase in blink rate right when she says one of my children i think she either realized she made a mistake or that topic alone caused her some stress you can decide that but there's some internal dialogue where her eyes are going down this direction to describe her disappointment but i think what's interesting to see the whole picture here is that this is a woman hoping her children are never found trying to show excitement for children being found and then disappointment that they were not found at the same time so there's a whole lot going on and we're seeing a lot of mixed emotions i think that's one of the reasons we're seeing a lot of this strange unusual behavior going on here because i think the husband here uh might still be a little hopeful and might still be a little scared or might be starting to suspect the person sitting beside him which is another reason for him to be frozen still in this video uh mark what do you got uh i went uh good that was a test let's past let's be still i think what do you got me all right uh let's take a look at her thumbs we're in this her thumb she's she's over there in that she's adapting like a you know what on that guy man just pulling her hand and pulling his hand and squeezing it and doing her thumb up and down that's an adapter she's trying to get rid of that built up stress or tension she's feeling at that time and she's under a lot of stress we know that because she's really still she looks like somebody just walked in and said what are you doing she's like what nothing what are you doing and she's in the middle of doing something she shouldn't be doing you're right her blink rate is high it goes through there and starts to tick tick tick tick i just did a greg but her her blink rate goes way up so she's under attack and she's feeling that threat that's another reason she's really really still um that's that odd smile at the top that's she she doesn't know that's not the thing to do and that's how we're seeing that and this in this video we're seeing her her nostrils are flared more than any other video up to this point i mean they're almost the whole time they're wide open taking in that oxygen her fighter flight's on because she's under attack and she's and she knows that so all these things we're talking about here we're seeing all the distress she's extremely stressed at this point and when she starts talking about uh hoping the children are okay and they finally won and all that that she i think that's dawning on her as it's coming out that that's that's odd to be to be talking like that and i agree with the chaser seeing a lot of things going on about what she's thinking right there and she's thinking about one thing as she's talking about something else but trying to make it look like something else that's uh that's a great find but all that leads to stress so we're just seeing somebody if you want to see somebody under a lot of stress take a look at her at this point all right just keep watching yeah right now we want to go to union to get the story first hand from susan smith and her husband david susan how are you doing this morning doing okay uh very little sleep last night but i'm okay there was uh some news yesterday and and some promising leads uh in this case uh how are how are you coping with the disappointment of the news from yesterday um it was um i was running around um my house yesterday morning all excited i really thought that they had uh had had really found something that was i really thought they found one of my children and um when i got to the courthouse and found out that the lead had um disintegrated or when there was nothing there i was very devastated very disappointed um got my hopes up and was let down but i haven't given up hope i you know that was uh maybe one of many disappointments but maybe the next gonna be be right so there it is finally even folks in in union wonder about the both of you they wonder if uh all of the truth of this story has been told susan what do you say to that um i'll say that the the uh on behalf on my behalf the truth has been told um are they right here what the truth is um i can i can from some i can see from their side uh why they have to do the things they have to do uh but the lord and and myself has no the truth i did not have anything to do with the abduction of my children um i don't think any panicle other children anymore than i do and i would i'd never even think about ever do anything that would harm them and yes go ahead i'm sorry go ahead susan i was just gonna say it's very painful to to have a finger point that you when it's your children involved all right chase what do you got yes what we see is you're still sharing all speech i'm sorry sorry fellas all right mark what do you got yeah i'm gonna say one thing about this the moment you bring in a supernatural entity as a character witness probably something is up i'm not bothered about you know if you believe in gods or don't or it's not really that it's the fact that you're bringing in something which is high authority you know any any kind of supernatural you know entity god is high in authority but tends to be very low in presence i i understand the kind of omnipresent you know uh uh idea but but they very rare you can very rarely get a god or demigod to show up anywhere so it's a great way of going look highest authority says you know i didn't do this and by the way you'll never be able to call that entity to the stand imagine imagine i'm in the same position and i go look um Thor and Odin absolutely know that i didn't do this at what point would you go oh all right well for if Thor and Odin think you didn't do it then you know call it off everybody go and look somewhere else because Thor and Odin say Mark didn't do it you would you would be incredulous now i know you know Thor and Odin are our gods from you know Norse sagas from way way back they may not feel very present right now but it's the same idea calling on a supernatural entity as your character witness kind of knowing that they have high authority but they're never going to show up in court chase what do you got on this one i totally agree and we've seen that in in so many videos that a lot of people will just use that as the as the star witness and if you watch this video a couple of times you'll see a lack of affect and she's had a past life history of affective instability there's a non-contracted denial here but i think one of the cool things that we occasionally talk about on the show is a humorous retraction and that's not when you stop being funny that's when this bone starts pulling into the body because one thing that fear makes us do is protect the arteries fear makes a human body start protecting arteries so this arm starts squeezing into the body at a very specific time here which is a fear response and i want you to take a look and see if you can see when that happens here there's an increase in blink rate in this video from 18 per minute to 95 and there's distancing language where she says my children she's not saying their names we hardly ever if ever see her use these names and this thumb sticking up here's where that thumb or she's holding her husband's hand her thumb is kind of poking up like that this is where i was like oh she's got a thumb up i'm going to see something but i didn't there wasn't a whole lot of movement with this thing and i thought we're going to see some digital flexions and movement but what we're really seeing is a the arm comes in which indicates to us there's fear so we're seeing a bodily freeze so she's freezing the body so that all of the cognitive capacity is available she doesn't want to move anything she's wants to maximize cognitive capacity and that's what we're seeing here and there's prolonged eye closure during her denial right when she says the words did not that's when we see the longest amount of eye closure and you can see it for yourself when the video comes right back up here scott what do you think yeah i agree with you and she's feeling the thread here because she's very still and that's indicating she's uncertain about what's going to happen next at this point and i think the part about the thumb a lot of times you'll see the thumb when someone is confident if you know if their thumbs are hitting her down their confidence level is low i think it's stuck there where she's got it with with his hand so it's it's so tight it's just sticking up the way he's grabbing her hand probably holding holding her hand going back to what greg said about him being freaked out because he's he's feeling a lot of stress too he's and he looks the way he should look at this point she puts her hand to her chest and this whole thing here it's called the suprasternal notch that little that little uh dimple right there in your check or in your in your uh neck and it's uh a lot of times you'll see when women have something emotional happen or you get bad news about your child the women will touch that suprasternal notch she gets really close she gets right up on it but not right to it she does this twice this is these are the most illustrators we've seen so far with her hand movement that's that's the biggest thing we've seen so far but she hits that twice and because she thinks she's supposed to she's saying i know but that and one at one point the finger does get really really super close to that but it crosses it like that so she's not really feeling the emotion she should feel here she's mimicking the emotion she's seen she's not a psychopath i don't think but but she does have a couple of the the of uh the items on the psychopath checklist for robert hare you know the lack of affect in in in her face and like chase was talking about earlier but i don't think that's what we're dealing with here um again and you're right mark that that that's a red flag when you bring up religion anytime don't get me wrong you know when it comes to god he you know he loves you but i'm his favorite so that's where i'm sitting and all that but when you bring up god in situations like this there's no reason there's no reason to do that there's no reason whatsoever to do that i always start focusing when when somebody brings up god that's when i go oh this is good here we go and then you can dig in even deeper because something's up there they're in panic mode at that point little or no brow movement and that husband he's the adapter she's over there just squeezing his hand and he's squeezing hers back and that's why we get that thumb up like that greg what do you got yeah he's more than an adapter he's sacred space he's got her locked down and they're adapting and i guarantee you before this thing started she put her hand in his and said help me through this something like that so he's gripping and holding her and protecting her she eye breaks to block i mean she she'll break eye contact to block primarily to get away from something but she she hit something really important and that's that her fighter flight is through the roof and if you'd want to find good indicators it's not just the blink rate or the when she exhales because she's trying to talk through all of this fighter flight it's also that her nostrils are really flared and that happens when we're in fighter flight or when we're angry typically she does a whole lot of um uh um uh um uh and that's because i think she's working on low horsepower and she's trying to access everything she's got so reason she's not moving her body a whole lot she tries to go to emphatic i think is what she's doing here she's trying to be emphatic and convince someone that no it's just this and there's a reason we know that people say things like as god is my witness in that in the business we all say they take holy ground and that means it's used a whole lot when somebody's coming up with a name for it my favorite part of this entire thing is that she actually doesn't know when she's been handed a gift this tells you she's not very smart when the guy interrupts her she gets annoyed go ahead she should have just gone thank god but she's not smart enough figure that out and she lets it go again and then she has something else to say because she's got to get one up my best is that this talking like this and all that and this flat face this flat affect is because she knows she's in real trouble and she's got to try to be as contained as she possibly can it's not that she has no affect usually i would bet that she does a little bit of a little bit of heightened affect occasionally if you're dealing with her so i think we're seeing just her lockdown as tight as she can make it that's all i got even folks in in union wonder about the both of you they wonder if uh all of the truth of this story has been told susan what do you say to that i say that the the on behalf on my behalf the truth has been told um i know right here what the truth is um i can i can from some i can see from their side uh why they have to do the things they have to do uh but the lord and at myself has no the truth i did not have anything to do with the abduction of my children um i don't think any practical other children more than i do and i would i'd never even think about ever do anything that would harm them and i guess uh go ahead i'm sorry go ahead susan i was just gonna say it's very painful to to have a finger pointing to you when it's your children involved it's a fun fact the behavior science term for nostril flaring is winged dilation now that you're a panelist you can go look it up that's beautiful we should put that on the bingo card i will susan we're led to believe that investigators spent quite a bit of time at at your place yesterday is that true uh yes sir and what do you think they were looking for i have no idea i got the information to search my house under the impression that was one of the normalities of uh the investigation as far as what they were looking for what they took i have no knowledge of that all right mark what do you got yeah look people can do all kinds of odd stuff under stress and impression we have to accept that however i don't really expect this kind of odd behavior it's it's it's too reasonable um it's too locked down this idea of normalities it's too civil it's too formal she's not displaying showing letting out any of the she's in control of the anxiety i'm not saying she's not feeling anxiety because we know she is but she's locking it down and that's not a behavior that i would expect now i'm not saying that you wouldn't have a parent who would be feeling anxiety trying to manage that at the same time as trying to contact the audience at the same time as trying to manage their partner at the same time as thinking where are my kids and who's taking them there should be so much complexity going on here that i wouldn't expect anybody to be able to lock down this hard so too reasonable too too uh too normal try to she's trying to project as she says normality so she's trying to be too normal too civil too formal i don't buy it at all and you know and i know it just looks super weird right now chase what do you got on this one yeah i'm just going to touch on something that's missing so she says uh she doesn't know why they're going to her house so when we i just bought a new dog it's a belgian malinois but when she was a puppy we went to the breeder's house to go meet him the mom came out and didn't know where all the puppies were for just a minute and i walked over to where the puppies were usually kept they weren't in there and the mom followed me to look for the dogs because even a dog knew the reason i was going in there was to look for her kids so any parent on planet earth would know the reason they were looking there the reason or what they were looking for is evidence or clues to find the children saying i have no clue is absolutely ridiculous was there a stalker is there evidence about where they were somebody might have taken them maybe something to help me find my kids that should be clear as day for anybody but this shows some pretty clear deception that if they're willing to say they don't know what the police were looking for that there's guilt scott or gray what do you get i think she's out of hard drive i think she's just out of point that she's got nothing left and you watch her respiration i mean she's damn near hyperventilation here if you're paying attention to it you can see her respiration is going and remember i said she's in a fighting position here's how you can tell she started off you couldn't see her nostrils and then her nostrils flared and now you can see into her skull as her head is back that's the only place she has to go and you can see up her nostrils her nostrils are flared that's her escape she's looking down her the bridge of her nose at this reporter and she's trying to answer questions she's on her best behavior again yes sir that nostril flare is fire flight and you can't miss it and she's trying to to do the best possible thing she can she uses words that i would not associate with the rest of her vocabulary things like normalities and things like no knowledge of that that sounds a lot like did you have knowledge of x y or z this is a normality for what we do might be something a police officer might say to her and i think she's regurgitating those words is kind of a chaff and redirect and she's not good at it so she's just in a position where she's locked down she's in fighter flight and that's all she's got scott where what do you got all right again we see that thumb adapting and no illustrators nothing and to go back to to alder bray and i called him bridge last time sorry albert but if you're watching this i'd pronounce your name wrong last time but it's albert alder bray and in his studies and that he did he talked about how the person who uses the least amount of adapters compared to someone who's telling the truth that person is most likely lying people who are who are lying don't use illustrators very often at all not much at all you're right greg your heads cock back because she's she's a little she's at the same time i think it's a little bit of arrogance here because she's taking on a threat but i think she's ready for it and she's she knows she has to do it but i think at the same time you're right she's she's afraid of the threat it's it's an odd combination of stuff there and again we're seeing her nostrils nostrils flared not quite as wide as that one we saw earlier but man but it's because her head is back it's because you can see right into her skull almost into her the frontal lobe there if you look real close everything else is very small her voices in her her voices quiet here all that all these things again lead to stress all if you pointed out bullet pointed all these out and put an arrow toward it you'd have the word stress there that's what i've got on my notes okay we good yeah susan we're led to believe that investigators spent quite a bit of time at at your place yesterday is that true uh yes sir and what do you think they were looking for i have no idea i granted the information to search my house under the impression that was one of the normalities of the investigation as far as what they were looking for what they took i have no knowledge of that you've got me twice scott so i had to get you back hey but the question that that arises and people who've been following this so closely and and certainly you have to know how much emotion that this is has generated across the country is why someone who would be interested in carjacking or stealing a car would want to continue to to take a couple of little kids with them have you been able to fathom that or or could you think of why someone would want to kidnap a couple of little kids and unless there was some ransom or something involved no i have no idea why the suspect has why he even took the children and why he has not released him yet we have no knowledge whatsoever right wait a second that was gonna do it man all right we're still gonna do it all right chase what do you got or greg what do you got or mark what he's gonna pass out if she keeps this interview up she's in a place where her respiration is fluttering now you can't miss it you watch her her breathing rate i didn't count but i'm gonna guess it's somewhere around 40 that's pretty fast it might even be higher than that chase you probably counted she's licking she's grooming her mouth all this stress is now caught up with her her eyes are down down to the right and then back up and then when he says my favorite in the whole thing i'll leave it at that when he says well we don't know her mouth moves now children if you have a child and you don't teach them not to when they color they'll go because we're thinking and working out something we move our mouths mammals do it's just what we do horses do it dogs all of us move our mouths a lot but humans little children will do it all the time and i think that's leakage in her case of well maybe i think she's trying to figure out what she's gonna say to make that come to the next level if she were in a chair i think we'd see pre confession movement she would start changing her body style here uh scott what do you got i got 10 bucks that says somebody's gonna make a gif of you doing that with your mouth a second ago i think within a week we'll be on instagram or you may want to take that i know where you live i go to i got a 50 bucks i know where you live i know anyway so that's if somebody shows up at your house with a chain and drags your traverse around what i mean yeah ever until you action so go out and get something else so at this at this point i think her fried her flight is it's the highest it's been so far she's panicking is this guy's talking because she's thinking is he going to say something's going to get me in trouble is you're going to say something that that i'm not ready for that i can't defend at this point her blink rays through the roof and her nostrils are flared again we say that one more time i think your spider flights through the roof mark what you got yeah i think you're right i think we actually see her ramp up in this i mean she starts pretty high and she goes up higher and i think it's because her partner here i guess it's her husband really starts kneading into her her muscle tissue there because he is not prepared for this at all he's in high anxiety that is a strong signal for her she i think is now going well this guy's out of control so just as you said there scott what's he gonna say is he reliable and i think her breathing rate ramps up even further at that moment there so always great to see the combinations that happen not just focus on one individual but how's the partnership working just as i think it was scott was saying earlier you know that in that video um that i don't think we can see but he was saying look you know if you look around the subject you get to understand the subject look at the partnership that's happening here to understand the subject chase what do you got on this one yeah i love that so let's really quickly touch on nostril flaring or wing dilation as we call it we have an adrenaline spike that produces an an equally high demand for oxygen and when you're trying to conceal your need for oxygen because most of us are just open our mouth and openly breathe bigger but when we're trying to conceal it we use the nostril flaring unconsciously our brain just says okay dilate the nostrils if you're trying to keep your mouth shut to oxygenate the blood going to the brain primarily i like that the perpetrator appears the husband is asked and now there's a perpetrator we even hear the word suspect which is great and he's using his wife as a pacifier throughout this thing you can see him just kind of going crazy and she i think she's stroking his hand to help calm him down and just kind of get him ready just remember what we talked about just kind of just go right along what we talked about but i think there's a strong drop of the thumb of her thumb onto his hand at the end of his statement and right when he's saying no knowledge whatsoever but you're right the the blink rate and breathing spikes as he begins so we actually in this clip we're not seeing it super high we're seeing it spike from the beginning so we're getting to see it escalate so you'll be able to see that and kind of train your brain to see that in your everyday life well using this video as well that's all i got hey but the question that that arises and people who have been following this so closely and and certainly you have to know how much emotion that this is has generated across the country is why someone who would be interested in in in carjacking or stealing a car would want to continue to to take a couple of little kids with them have have you been able to fathom that or or could you think of why someone would want to kidnap a couple of little kids and unless there was some ransom or something involved no i have no idea why the suspect has why he even took the children and why he has not released him yet we have no knowledge whatsoever susan what do you think i think it takes a very sick and emotionally unstable person to be able to to take two beautiful children like that to be able to keep them from their parents to keep them from where they do belong um i i don't i can't imagine why anybody would want to do such any do such a thing as as what has happened chase what he got so we see uh a lot of this stuff that's going on here let's do linguistic analysis really quick she's saying this sick and emotionally unstable person i think this is what's what we call a defense strategy revealing itself that if something does happen she gets to clean her own butcher block or define how she's seen but i want you to concentrate on her words just to be able to then she says to be able to then she says to be able to then she says to be able to four times there so and she describing the crime as such anything or such a thing as what has happened but back to this word able it's able indicates capacity or ability or potential so it's not an action so she's not speaking about anything that actually happened she's speaking about something that's 100 hypothetical here there's more vanishing perpetrator and remember she apparently met and stood face to face with this person and he's still not mentioned she mentioned some ethereal unimaginable human even though she has apparently seen this person face to face she's unable to mention the crime she's unable to mention the kids names or the perpetrator and this is a wonderful spot as an interrogator this is the exact moment that i would start inserting the punishment question what do you think should happen to the person that did this and get because she's already in the mood to clean her own butcher block and define herself this is the perfect moment to do that scott what do you got all right well you covered everything so i'll just talk about stress for a minute let's talk about everything we've seen at this point everything that leads to stress everything she's doing shows she's stressed and she's under attack and she feels the threat so that's why we're seeing the nostril flare she's been really still her senses are are odd oddly constructed everything sounds off because she's under stress and she knows this is at some point things are going to get worse than they are right now because we're going to find those kids and it's going to get worse for uh mark what do you got yeah so if you're a panelist which i hope you are which means you've subscribed and you've maybe been watching us for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks maybe even as much as a couple of years you're now probably getting pretty good at analyzing behavior and body language and what you're going to notice about other people out there is when they analyze body language and behavior all they're really doing is telling you what's going on inside their own head it's just a rorschach test because they don't have the ability like you're going to be having right now of really critically thinking what's going on i think that's what we've got here another rorschach test because you got somebody here diagnosing an imaginary perpetrator she knows they're the only perpetrator is her so what story has she got other than a sick and emotionally unstable individual this is a self diagnosis essentially i mean it's not a particularly you know anybody who's a who's a psychiatrist analyst will be able to do a more acute analysis but she's not far off as an amateur she's not far off on herself so that's what i'd say we've got there is that's a beautiful piece of a simple self analysis that she's giving us there a rorschach test greg what do you got on this one yeah so i love this one because she has prepared you said butcher block which i find kind of interesting chase because in the old days it would have called these flip charts butcher block just the paper and i think she put a list of things not maybe not literally but a list of things she needed to cover to cast who could have done this to her children now interestingly she was able to describe what he looked like what kind of hat he was wearing even to an artist but she was not able to say this scumbag who took my children when we're angry about losing our children we don't go we go and tell and we're aggressive and pushy and we're not seeing any of that no brow down it's all that head back leaned in her mouth wrenches a little bit before she starts and then she accesses her left as she's bringing up these things that she was saying she's like finally i get to say something i know how to say and she is more clean clearly spoken because she's prepared it i think it's just more of the act and she's barely able to hold into it even through fight or flight though she finishes her sentence that's what i got greg let me ask you this what are you keeping that pocket right there with a zipper i don't know susan what do you think um i think it takes a very sick and emotionally unstable person uh to be able to to take two beautiful children like that to be able to keep them from their parents to keep them from where they do belong um i i don't i can't imagine why anybody would want to do such any do such a thing as as what has happened mark what do you think about what we're seeing here yeah so here's what i want you to do take a leaf out of scott's book there which is look around what's happening when you're analyzing a situation not necessarily at the subject themselves look around the subject and see how other people are reacting that's what i take away from this because we've got some great examples there of being able to look at other people's behavior around this particular subject chase what do you think yeah i think there's some there's a good case to be made for there's some evidence here for many different mental issues that are going on i'm not a professional so i'll leave it alone and maybe next video we'll break out the big dsm but for this one just use what i will give you a legal term which is the reasonable person standard and we just ask ourselves from a critical thinking perspective like mark always talks about how would a reasonable person feel if their children were kidnapped would you be angry we're not seeing any anger would you feel sad we're not seeing that would you beg for your children back would you use their names would you say it on tv and not just yourself but think about other people that have different lifestyle than you so let's just use the reasonable person standard and that helps us to discover what's missing and what's being hidden from a conversation that we see anywhere we have one gregg yeah i think you just hit dead on the the nail dead on the head reasonable person because what we see here is somebody who's covering up something what we can tell about this person is they're not reacting normally normal is lots of different things because there's no such thing in humans but what we do know is that we're not defending self when a child goes missing if you lost your dog tomorrow do you start looking for reasons why your dog is missing or do you start looking for the dog these are children and we don't see a bit of concern we don't see a bit of grief we don't see a bit of anxiety usually when people are dealing with this we looked at the mechanics they look bleached after days of their children being gone there's no bleach to this this person is talking like a normal person and she's talking about this person who is mentally ill that she let take her children because he had a gun come on it just all of these pieces of a story just don't fit well yeah of course i let him take the kids because he had a gun this is all of this going together is just as bad as dying downs there's no logic to the story there's no there's no flow to the story and the reason that she's not upset is because she knows they're dead and she knows she's got to protect herself that's it scott what do you got i think this is a great study in stress because we see it we see her under stress in all kinds of different situations or different interviewers so i think this is great because we're seeing all the the earmarks of someone who's being dishonest or being deceptive as we go through these everything from the nostril flare to the um being very still to the head back heavy breathing the the blink rate going up i think it's wonderful and how she talks about herself the whole time again if if you'll focus on what they're saying when you see people who are being questioned about missing children missing husband missing life whatever listen to how listen whether they talk about the the person missing or they talk about themselves and how they feel about everything that'll give you a heads up of what's happening because most of the time if they're talking about their self themselves the whole time that's a big red flag so if you like this video watch this one