 listening in. Welcome. Welcome one and all any amendments to the agenda? Sarah, I think Liz said she would like to discuss the results of the planning commission, the planning survey that she said. Okay, got it. So we'll do that under brother business. That's okay with you, Liz. Does that work? Yes, fine. Okay. So the first item on the agenda is considering the middle sex conservation commission's recommendation that 5,000 be allocated from the conservation fund to assist in the Vermont Land Trust's purchase of the development rights on 88 acres of peace farm on Culver Hill action likely. Lee, is this you? You're going to tell us about this? Yeah, this is me. And we, yeah, we talked about it last month, the Vermont Land Trust and the conservation commission supports the Vermont Land Trust application for $5,000 towards the purchase of the development rights of the Seedman Harrower property, which is 88 acres on Culver Hill Road, the farms being purchased by a woman who has experience operating the vegetable farm and she intends to keep the property in agricultural use as a vegetable farm, hosting community events. And as we discussed last time, there's no formal agreement in the application, but a seeming willingness to work with the town to have some sort of public access to trails if that's something the town wants to pursue. And Britt Hazleton here, he's from the Vermont Land Trust and was the applicant. I don't know, Britt, if you want to add anything. Yeah, no, that's great, Lee. Thank you. Thanks everybody for having me. So at this point, we've been working on this project for quite a while. We do have a grant application that's been approved by the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board for the vast majority of the funds needed for this project. VHCB, they use state and federal money towards their farmland conservation program. And one of their policies is to ask us and other grantees applying for VHCB funds to look for, seek out local funding leverage whenever possible. So in a community like Middlesex with a town conservation fund, it's part of the process to put in a request for funds if there are funds available. So that's what brings us here. So Lee, remind us what the balance is in the conservation fund. It's just about a little over $5,000. No, it's currently over $9,000. Oh, okay. Thank you. I know you told us that the last time and I'd forgotten. The rent it is, does that include the $5,000 for this year or not? Probably not. No. Nothing's going in for this year yet. Right. So we owe you or we owe the fund another $5,000 for this year. Are you certain about that? I thought the $9,000 included what was appropriated at the last town meeting and that's what our... That budget just barely started and none of the funds have been moved over yet. So maybe you're calculating it in your figures, but we haven't physically moved the funds. So I think that $9,000, as Durinda just pointed out, calculates that $5,000, but it's not actually there. I just... Okay. That's fine. I just wanted to make clear where we stand. Yep. Yeah. I think one thing to add on to my thoughts before, we totally recognize that this is a pretty substantial request in terms of the balance of the conservation fund, whether this year's allocation is included in that $9,000 or not, it's still a significant chunk. So we go into that. We go into this request knowing that it's a big ask that when we get communities to help support these projects, we're always working with communities in terms of making sure that our conservation efforts are aligned with town planning and zoning. And sometimes if there are potential conflicts, we go through a very robust process of getting select board and planning commission approval. If there's zoning issues or things that may not seem compatible with conservation, but it really is tremendously important to VLT and BHCB to get local leverage like this. There's substantial funds available through the state and federal funding typically. We have a few million bucks every year that we can spend on these administration projects, but that money is pretty limited actually when you are thinking about conserving farmland statewide. And so whenever we can get local leverage or get private fundraising in some circumstances, we're not doing that here, it really does add up to help BHCB leverage its limited dollars. Are there any other partners involved in this project or is it just you and us as I say? Just us, yeah. So the BHCB allocation again, that's about half state funds from the state budget. And then it's about half federal funding through USDA and RCS, the Natural Resources Conservation Service, which is federal farm bill funding that Vermont has become very successful at getting thanks to the BHCB funding that's made available this year. Okay. Any other questions, board members? Yes, I have one question. If that $5,000, so just say that $5,000 wasn't put in there. That means the project still goes, but Seedman gets $5,000 less. Am I correct with that? I mean, as you know, we have a contract with Sarah and Scott to purchase the easement at the full appraised value. So if we right now we have all the funding except for $5,000, so they can decide not to move forward if they don't get the full purchase price, or they could just decide to accept, you know, $5,000 less. They being this, Sarah and Scott Peror? Yeah. I have a question because I know that the funds are limited. What was it about that property that, because I live right near this property and I use that, I walk in their fields, this beautiful land, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not, it doesn't border other land trust land. Maybe there's one piece that does, but you know, borders private property, they've kept quite a bit of the land that they own to themselves. So I don't see it so much as like a value to the community, except for that it's a beautiful piece of property and it's nice to drive by and not see development and see farmland. So is that, was it specifically for this sort of agricultural use that, because I truly don't see a huge benefit to the town in terms of the use of that property, especially if the woman ends of using those fields for farming. So I just, I'm curious as to how they chose that one over, maybe some other ones. Yeah, well, so we do farm projects all over the state and there's other, you know, Upper Valley Land Trust is another land trust that does work in Vermont and they go for VHCB farmland funding as well. But VHCB, it is a competitive process to get through that funding program. And, you know, there are all sorts of variables that go into like which projects, which properties we will select to bring through that process. And in this case, you know, there are a few intriguing things about it, the proximity to Montpelier, the fact that there are a lot of farms in middle sex. And so there's an opportunity to help conserve a farm and start a new farm business in a town that frankly just doesn't have a lot of that right now. And yeah, there's actually been a demand. So Vermont Land Trust, we run this farmland access program, which has a goal to help new and beginning farmers access farms, because farmland access, you know, being able to affordably buy a property, that's a huge barrier for young farmers or older farmers who are just getting into it. So when land conservation happens, it helps make farms more affordable for those farmers. And in this particular case, this type of property is, it's not a conventional farm in the context of like our whole portfolio of farms that we've conserved over the years. If you look at our work, there's a lot of dairy farms conserved in Addison County, Franklin County, Orleans County. And this is a hill farm in middle sex. It is quite a bit different. But we've had a lot of interest in our whole pool of farm seeders who are looking to buy their first farm. And this type of property is really well suited to a diversified vegetable operation, like Nicole is hoping to start there. It's got good access to markets in Montpelier. It's a beautiful spot to hold farm dinners and other on farm events. They don't need 100 acres of tillable land, you know, like a larger dairy farm might need. There's a lot of very productive ag soils there for a vegetable operation like hers. So we see farms like this as a very important mix in kind of the overall farm portfolio in Vermont, if you could call it that. So that might be a long-winded, rambling answer to your question. I don't know if it was exactly getting at your point. No, that's helpful. Thank you. Is there any, I'm just curious, is the land trust ever looking at the property that's adjacent to it behind it, the appell property that's like 700 acres? That's been for sale for a long time and they keep lowering the price. Oh, I am not familiar with that. Is that a woodland property? All woodland, yeah. Yeah, I'm not familiar with that one. I mean, we always operate based on, you know, willing landowners coming to us and who are looking to learn more about conservation options. And that's how Sarah and Scott came to us. They are ready to retire, you know, wanted to find a farmer to take over their farm and wanted it to be affordable for them. So that's where we came in. That one, that neighboring property may have come to us. The funding, frankly, for conservation of those types of parcels is a lot harder to come by than the farmland funding. We're very lucky with our state delegation to Washington and with the way the farm bill is structured to have that federal money and a commitment each year from the state to match that federal farm money. The woodland properties, it's a little harder these days to get conservation funding for those. Thank you. I just add that the Conservation Commission was attracted to this project because it has a different flavor than recent and other uses of the conservation fund, which focused on woodland conservation and preservation of recreational access or developing recreational access. In between the town forest, the expansion of the town forest, development of the trail there, supporting the Hunger Mountain Headwaters project to preserve access to the Hunger Mountain Trailhead. We feel like we've done quite a bit in that arena over the last few years and like Britt pointed out, there frankly isn't a lot of agricultural land in middle sex. This is a pretty unique property and we like the idea of preserving the agricultural land. Sarah, I don't know if you noticed but Peter's got somehow got disconnected. I noticed Peter wasn't there and I kept looking for him and I thought maybe he just taken his picture off. No, I don't know what happened. He hasn't tried to come back in either. So while he does, can I just ask a question for the minutes? You said that the state and federal funds are going to purchase these are 88 acres, correct? The conservation easement on 88 acres. Yeah. Okay. And you said you paid the full price. You're going to pay the full price for that. I just need to put in the minutes how much his money is going to be purchased that with federal and state tax dollars. Yeah. So let me just bring over open the budget here one second. So the full it gets a little complicated with would be appraisal. But the full purchase price is 372,070 dollars. And that's the value of the development rights of the conservation easement on the property. $370,000. Yep. For there's no structure there. It's just land. It's 88 acres including all the farm buildings and all the farm buildings. It does. Okay. And so again, we're not that's not to purchase that property. It's to purchase an interest in the property, namely the conservation restrictions. So I just have to understand this because I'd like to explain this in a minute. So the Vermont land trust will purchase an easement development rights for $372,000. Correct? Correct. And then would there be another step as well with that property also be sold in addition to that $372,000? Yep. And so the the concern value of the farm is set by the same appraisal is $276,000. And so those two numbers together kind of give you the full fair market value of the farm as it is now. $276,000. But that hasn't that hasn't come across. That hasn't transferred yet. That's just it hasn't transferred yet. The plan is for a simultaneous transfer. So at the same closing table, Sarah and Scott will sell an easement to the Vermont land trust and the BHCB for $372,000 and then sell the conserved farm to Nicole Dutch, the farm buyer that we've selected at the appraised value of $276,000. Okay. Hi guys, I'm sorry my internet dropped out for a couple of minutes there. I'm now on my phone. So I didn't hear the last couple of minutes of discussion. Peter, I asked, I just wanted while you were gone, I wanted to ask with some numbers exactly what was going how much was being spent for the easement with the federal and state dollars. And that's that is $372,000 on the 88 acres. And then in addition to that, there'll be a land transit land and property transaction based on the appraised value of $276,000. Yeah. So that just wanted to break that down. Yeah. And so that's an illustration of why VLT has a farm on access program and why we work on farms like this. Because instead of having to come up with the 372,000 and the 276,000, Nicole, this farm buyer who's trying to buy her first farm only needs to finance, you know, find financing for the 276,000. I got you. So that's how we make farmland more affordable. You don't know how to spill in the coal, do you? N-I-C-O-L-E. Okay. And then her last name is Dutch D-U-C-H. D-U-C-H, no T. No T. Should we make a motion so that Lee can, because Lee, you have to leave at 5.30, and there's still more you need to do. Yep. If we're ready for that, yes. Is someone willing to make a motion? I'll make a motion. Peter. Okay, I'll... Wait a minute. Can other people weigh in on this? Yes. Peter, this is Randy Drury. I have a question about this easement and wondering if there are any kind of ways to opt out in the future or any kind of timelines that lock this easement in place for? I can answer that. This is a perpetual easement. It quote-unquote runs with the land. So it binds all future landowners. There is not a mechanism to withdraw it from the land trust. This easement will be on this farm in perpetuity. Thank you, and I have just one other question. I thought I heard you say something to the effect that there's no formal agreement for town use in any way in this deal. Is that correct? Right. The proposed conservation easement doesn't include any specific public access. Thank you. Which is typical of our farm easements, frankly, unless there's a very established public access area, like an existing trail or a swimming hole, something like that. Peter, I have a question as well. Okay, go ahead. This land is already in a land use program. So does anybody know what the long-term tax implications might be on this to the town? I can speak a little bit generally to the property tax impacts. So it depends on the lister at the end of the day. So this is going to be, so typically I can say that our, a big complaint we get from owners of conserved land is that assessed values at the town level don't decrease because of our conservation easements. Typically, there is no property tax impact, even when a property is conserved. There's a lot of nuance there. By statute, listers are supposed to take into account any legal restrictions on a property like an easement. In practice, you most often see that listers do not decrease the assessed value of properties once an easement is in place, and there are all sorts of reasons for that, even just personal bias of the listers. In this case, it's quite complicated because Sarah and Scott are keeping a bunch of land in their house and selling a portion of it. So we won't really know. There's going to be new tax bills issued next year, one for their retained land and a new tax bill for this 88 acres. So I can't pretend that I know what the change in the overall assessed value of the property will be. That'll be up to the lister. But typically we don't theoretically, theoretically the property should be listed at fair market value. Right. Yeah. But Steve, what's the fair market value? Is it that's what the listers come up with? That's what the listers come up with. And again, often we see that they, listers, decide that there is not a change based on our easements. Right. You know, that the property would have stayed more or less the same. There's exceptions to that for sure. Okay, now I'm on here twice. That doesn't sound good, Peter. Peter, do you want me to kill the mute your phone? Yeah, I'm going to hold on. Off the meeting on my phone. Peter, may I say something as a resident of the community? I have some serious concerns about how this will go over in a town that is suffering during COVID. We have seen people come into our office who have, who are stricken by this, who have lost their jobs, and who are very worried about making their second and third quarterly payments. I think the board should think very long and hard before giving a full $5,000 to a private transaction between, we all can agree the intentions are awesome, but you're talking about a private transaction that benefits one person, maybe two in this town and does not benefit the community as a whole. And frankly, while that may go along with the MCC's guidelines, I'm afraid that that is not politically palatable. I think if you need public support, Sarah could give $5,000 to the conservation and then the conservation to turn around and give $5,000 to this project. That would fulfill everybody's, that would fulfill everything. Other comments? I agree with Sarah. This is Victor Weier. I agree with Sarah that I had a talk with Britt earlier today and it will still go through. It will be still preserved. They'll just get $5,000 left. I don't think that, but what Sarah said, Sarah and Scott can afford it. At this time, to give them flat out $5,000, they do not think is in the best interest of the town. And maybe Britt also spoke of the easement, but that is true that the value of that farm may stay the same as far as the easement goes, but when Ms. Dutch buys that property for $276,000, it's a good argument that that's all that's worth. In other words, it would drop in value. So we may be talking $100,000 that the rest of us in the town of Middlesex may have to share to make up for, you know, $2,500 bucks or so in taxes. So I don't think it's a good idea. I'll jump in. It's Michael Levine. So I'm afraid I came in a little late to the discussion. So I guess I have one question first. Is this $5,000 also guaranteeing public access to this piece of land? Is it, is that public access guaranteed dependent on this $5,000? No, it's not a guarantee. It's not a guarantee that there would be public access, either way, you're right. It's atypical for this type of conservation easement to have that baked into the agreement. Yeah, so it just, the proposed easement does not include any specific public access provision. Okay, so independent of the $5,000 request. Okay. Well, then I think my comment may not be that relevant. But if this should come up again, I will add this to sense that COVID has affected lots of people, lots of different ways. And I appreciate Sarah and Vicks comments. But also keep in mind that as we have been trying to find more and more close by places to recreate as residents, that keeping access to land becomes actually more and more important. So if there's a situation down the road where some public money would guarantee that, then keep that thought in mind. Okay, thank you. Can I, can I ask Lee a question? So I mean, I guess I'm sort of seeing this from the perspective of that this is the Planning Commission's recommendation that the Planning Commission has a budget in which they, you know, make decisions around how they want to use their money. And, you know, Lee, you're supportive of this because, I mean, you've said why that this promotes this, this is, you know, the fact that this is going to happen no matter what, but this is sort of showing town support in promoting agriculture. I mean, because we have to also think about the fact that this person will have a business, right? And so this business doesn't necessarily bring in taxpayer dollars for middle sex, but it does, you know, contribute to the greater community in terms of a business opening in town. So I think I'd like to hear once more from Lee, if that's okay, to see, you know, what about this project has made you decide that you want to put, because I personally put more of my trust in how the Conservation Commission decides to use their money as opposed to my personal beliefs about whether or not I think this money should go to, I don't see it as going to the Siegments. I don't see this as, oh, Sarah and Scott get an extra $5,000, because that's not what this is about. I think this is more about town support for local agriculture. Right. Right. And as Britt alluded to earlier, it's, the, his programming, Vermont Land Trust, VHCB are strengthened by leveraging the local funds, and in turn can become more successful in similar efforts in other places. But going back to how the Conservation Commission evaluated that we have a conservation fund guidance document and the main criteria for selection, and keep in mind that you have to, at least two of these are related to preservation and natural resources, scenic resources, recreational, cultural resources, and then there's other criteria that include the fund will provide an important local matching contribution that will be used to leverage a significant amount of state, federal, or private land. And also that it will help the town meet a strategic planning land use goal identified in the town plan. And those are two of the other criteria. I think as far as natural resources and scenic resource, don't have to dive into too much detail on just how nice the property is and the aim of, we've talked about preserving agricultural land and soils, and then there's clearly the potential no outright guarantee for recreational resources. But certainly, more of a chance of developing some type of public access, should it go into this type of use as opposed to other development. Thanks. Can I have a question? Lee, you've heard the comments that are against allocating the money. Do you think that the comments would change the opinion of the Conservation Commission in supporting this $5,000 allocation? I don't think so. And we've talked about scarce funds during the time of COVID. And we've talked about we'll likely request less money for the conservation fund at the next town meeting as a result. And also it's a general topic that's very sensitive. And I don't know if the Conservation Commission is the right mouthpiece for it. But there's been this sense amongst our group that a lot of people in middle sex are suffering. There's also a lot of people that are doing fine. There's a lot of us that received federal stimulus checks that we didn't really need. And maybe there's a sensitive way to put out there to the town for people that are in that type of position to look at that long list of articles that we all discussed and debate at town meetings and think about which ones that you really support. And if you have the means to support those so that it doesn't fall on the taxpayers, it's kind of a rabbit hole. I just fell down there. But that's generally those are the discussions we've been having. Thank you. So the only comment I have about this, and I'm really I'm really conflicted because I hear what everybody is saying. Certainly these are town funds. But this is the purpose of the conservation fund. And the voters have approved putting that money in the fund. In the future, they may not. But it isn't like this is directly coming out of our coming out of our budget. It's coming out of a fund that we've accumulated now. Ultimately, it's taxpayer money. Believe me, I get that. So I don't know where that leads us. But we either need to we either need to and I don't know if we even have the ability to do this. But but consider this further in another meeting because we need to we need to move on. We've got a board of simple authority meeting at six o'clock. So are people people ready to vote? Do we want to do we want to pass over this for tonight and think about it some more? Is there a is there a timing deadline on this? Brett? Not particularly. I mean, we're hoping to close by the end of the year. But there are other factors there that may stretch that out. Okay, but if we if we said we would take this up again at our next meeting, that wouldn't that wouldn't follow you up too much. No, it would not. Okay. So what's your pleasure, board members? We have a we have a motion that's been moved and seconded. We can I believe and help me out of here, Sarah. I believe me we can act on that motion or we can have a I don't I don't be over and not consider it tonight. We don't think we have a motion that's been moved and seconded. We we don't want to make a motion, but it didn't go through. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. So I don't see the point of waiting another week. We either I mean unless it's something that we need to all sleep on. I personally know what how I'm going to vote, but that's if that if other people need time to think about it. I don't want to I'd rather I'd rather pass over this this time. I'm I'm on offense on this one here. There's a lot of things to consider. And I Peter's statement that he just made makes a lot of sense that, you know, the town approved the $5,000 for the conservation commission and they're spending it in in ways that they see fit and their guidelines. But I'm still on the fence on this thing. So I'd rather wait. So would you make a motion to pass over this for tonight? I would make a motion that we pass over this for tonight and and take it up at another slight board meeting. Is there a second to that motion? Is there another motion that someone would like to make? I'll second it. It's fine. I'm happy to wait. Any discussion on the motion to pass over for tonight? Then we will vote. All those in favor of passing over. This decision until a subsequent board meeting presumably the next board meeting, which would be in two weeks, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. It's unanimous. I didn't hear everybody. Yeah. We all voted aye. Okay. All right. Okay. You didn't hear Steve. So I guess we're we're passing over this for tonight, Britt and Lee. And I don't know that you need to be here for the next meeting, but it would be good, Lee, if you could be. I'm sorry to keep bringing you into this, but you're our man on this on the subject. So if it's possible, if you could zoom in to our next meeting, that would be great. Yeah, I should be able to. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Yep. Thank you. Great. The next item on the agenda, and we are now woefully behind. So we need to be brief if we can be. Is a Lee Ross Burke to discuss the conservation commission's intention to seek cost estimates from melting foresters to develop a detailed forest management plan. And I presume this is the town forest play. This. Okay, good. Yeah. I gotta take off. I've got about two minutes, but okay. Well, give it to us. Give it to us quick. Here's the quick. So we had Ethan Tapper, who's the Chittenden County Forester come out and evaluate whether or not there could be some timber harvest on the on the property and concert with a neighboring landowner. He took a look at what we have in our town forest management plan as a forest management plan and recommended that we seek out a consulting forester to really draft the detailed plan that can be used to guide any future timber harvest. So we wanted to just bring that in front of the board and let you know our intent and see if you had any concerns over that. So you have money in your budget to do that? There's no, at this point, it would just be seeking bids to find out what that would cost. Okay. But where would you expect the money to come from if it went forward? Is there money in your budget to do this? Or are we looking for the town to pay for this directly? It depends on how much it costs. There's, there's some. We're gonna have a chance. You're gonna seek bids and then we're gonna have a chance to discuss this. Right. So you're basically just giving us a heads up that you're, you're seeking bids and we're gonna discuss this at some time in the future. Right. Yeah. I mean, hopefully the whole idea of, of logging in the town forest was to create revenue. So hopefully it would be exactly a net, a net gain, not a loss. And certainly, you know, that's what, that's part of what we expected to do with the town forest. No, that's, that's where we want to go with it. We want to generate revenue and stop asking the taxpayers for money. Okay. Well, thank you very much. And thank you for hanging around till the last minute. Does anybody have any quick questions or All right. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Good night. Liz, it's time to fire up the wood stove. I bought the Lankirk blanket. It works really well. Maybe you knew that. Sarah, I was thinking about going down for a swim. I don't know. You make me cold. Just looking at you. Okay. So moving, moving right along, clarifying certain parts of town personnel policy action likely. Is that you, Sarah or Dorinda? It's both of us, but can we skip over this? Cause I think we're running out of time. Okay. It's not urgent in other words. Okay. A quick highway report, Steve. Okay. Quick higher highway report. We're finishing up at the town pit, putting in some posts and gates so that we can close the pit off for vehicular traffic. And we've completed the little parking area that would be for the town forest. And over the next couple of weeks, we're going to be doing some maintenance on the road stuff. But first and foremost, we will be making sure that all of our winter equipment is ready to, ready to go. And that will pretty much cover it. Okay. No, no updates on candidates for our road forming position. No, none. So are we working on a plan of how we're going to go forward on the, after the 16th? I presume we are. Well, we're going to be limping along with three people. That's the plan. Well, that's not necessarily the plan, but I mean, we'll be looking for people that could come in and help out, maybe just plowing. There's been putting some feelers out there and let's see what we get for response over the next couple of weeks. Right. Yeah, I think that would be the, that would be what I would be looking for is to find somebody, maybe a retired person who has experience, still has a CDL. Well, there's some construction workers that get laid off in the winter months too. So, we'll be able to come in there. Because it's going to be, it's going to be a problem if we try and limp by with just three guys. Well, we're going to limp by for a little bit with three guys. Yeah. No, no, no, I understand. I understand. Okay. Hey, Peter, I just want to say that I have been putting, I did talk to Berlin today and the Tom Peter, I mean, Steve probably knows him. Tom Podeski is, does that sound familiar? He's going to call me back because Berlin just interviewed a whole bunch of candidates for road foreman and he's going to go look through his files and see if there might be any of the also rands of runners up who might be interested coming to Middlesex. Thanks, Sarah. That's great. I hate to say, I hate to say we'll take anything we can get, but I would say we'll take anything good we can get. How about that? Well, we can say, we'll talk to as many of them as we need to. We'll talk to as many of them that'll come forward. Yeah, right. Someone hasn't called me back. So, it's interesting to know that they received a bunch of resumes. I mean, that's, that's at least encouraging. I think there are people out there who are looking. Okay. Dorinda, treasurer's report. Hey, Peter, before you move on from the road report, I have a, this is Randy. I'm sorry. I was just wondering, we might be able to get an update on what, what the plan is or if it's been dropped as far as during the town meeting, we had a pretty lengthy conversation about the $40,000 that was additional money that was allocated to hiring on a person to run an excavator for a month and rent an excavator. I'm wondering if we can get an update on that. Steve? Yeah, we're, we're not, we're not doing that, so that money won't be used. So what will happen with that money? It's, it's part of the overall budget. If the money is ready, just let me speak for a minute. If the money ultimately isn't spent, it goes into the town fund balance. But I think the plan is to spend the money, Steve, right? It just isn't to spend it in that way. If we can spend it in that way. Yes. Okay. So I have a, I have a follow-up question to that. With that money not being used, the plan, part of the plan, if I recall, was that during the time when this person would be doing ditch work, which it looks like most likely the town crew probably did themselves, that the town crew would be able to do other things and stay on point with their, with their maintenance plan for the year. What do we have to say about what was overlooked during that period of time that didn't get done? Well, I don't have, I don't have a lengthy report right here in front of me to give you on that, Randy, but I will say that because of the sentiment of everybody, what they wanted us to do, they wanted to see our road crew doing ditching and stuff. And so that's what we did. And we didn't get into some of the other maintenance items. We did as much as we could. I can get with you at some point and go over point by point, but I'm not going to get into that entire discussion tonight. That, that'd be great. I think just given the length of discussion at town meeting, I think that it would be, it would be nice to have an idea of, of the implications of not doing that. So if you have time at some point, I would, I would love to hear that. That's not a problem. I will give you a call and we can set it up. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Anything else on the roads? Okay, Jorinda. I sent you guys the renewal application for passive. And I just wondered. Insurance, insurance. Yeah. So I'm wondering if you've looked it over, you're all set with the values that is on the, that they have for our buildings. And are you all set with going forward with the way they value the property, the different options? So number one, I did look it over in some detail. I think the building values to me looked fine. They are, they are built in the policy. There's guaranteed replacement cost provision. So by accepting their values, they're tacitly agreeing to pay the replacement value of those buildings if something happens. But the values looked okay to me. I thought some of the contents values looked a little skinny and I don't have a amount in front of me, but I think we only had $46,000 on the contents of the town garage. And that doesn't sound like very much. Now that doesn't include the trucks or equipment, but it includes all, it does include equipment, includes all the tools and miscellaneous equipment which are in there, computers, whatever, whatever else. I just, I have no sense of whether, whether that's a good number or not. Either I have it and I'm just looking at, I'm looking at the contents value and I'm not seeing, I'm not seeing what you're, which one you're talking about. I'm talking about the town garage. Well, I'm talking about all the buildings. I mean, the town clerk's office doesn't have a very high value on it either. I mean, like for example, the new fire station only has $125,000 for contents. That's pretty low. Well, that's a lot more than 46 or whatever down the road. I'm just saying, I don't know, I don't know what the process should be on that, but I'm concerned about those values. And I think they've been the same for a while. I mean, we radically, over the past few years, they've pushed us to update and upgrade and increase the values on the buildings, but they never make any recommendation about the content. So not I don't know how we, I don't know how we deal with that. I mean, I guess ultimately what we do is we ask the town clerk to do, have somebody do a replacement cost survey on the contents of the town hall. We have the fire department do the same thing and we have the highway department do the same thing. We can always endorse, we can renew the policy as it is and endorse the policy to increase those limits at any time. So it's not like, it's not like we're making the decision forever by giving them the okay to renew the policy the way it is. It says on the cover that they increased it 2.2 percent. I think that's only building value though. Since property values. So I don't know if that means typically, and I'm not sure that Dorenda, but typically that's only the buildings. Okay. And it's all should be at replacement cost value, correct? Yes. Guaranteed replacement cost. Yeah. Okay. Because I think something came up on one of our claims that we weren't in at some, at that or something, but I'll double check on that is that's what you're going for. And if they don't feel that those values support that guaranteed replacement cost, then they need to tell us. Okay. What are you recommending that we start doing a survey on our fire department town hall and town garage to come up with a real, more real sick value of the content? We need to do something and I'm not, you know, I mean, I can go around and look at the stuff, but I'm not a good judge of what it is. And again, remember, you know, the 25 year old socket wrench set that we paid $4.50 for 20 years ago was not probably $75. It's a replacement value, not the depreciated value of the tools and the equipment. So it comes up to a pretty good number. I'm sure Steve would agree with that. I do. And for the record, I sent the list of vehicles to both the highway and the fire department to have them just say, yep, those are the vehicles we had. I heard back from Paul right away. I have still not heard back from the fire department. I didn't see a list of vehicles. I didn't send it to you guys because you wouldn't know if they existed or not. So I just sent it on to them. The truth really hurts. I think if you can't get a response from them, let me know and I'll bug them. I mean, you want us to make for all this stuff and they don't make the slightest effort to support it and make sure it's correct. Well, it has to be in by Friday. So I'm going to submit it as is. We can always endorse it, but I want them to tell us, regardless of what the insurance policy says, what the vehicles are. I just figured I'd mention it for the record. You just wanted to raise my blood pressure, didn't you? No. You want to hear that, Jen and Tonic. Amen. So I guess what we need to do is, I mean, this is an awful thing to ask Paul in the last few days, but maybe Steve, you and I can walk around there and kind of look at the stuff and see what we think. I don't know. Some kind of process and certainly the fire department needs to tell us. I think that between Paul and I, we can come up with a list so that we can kind of get a general idea of what a replacement cost would be. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. I just don't want something to happen. We pay a lot for this insurance. We want it to do what it needs to do if it doesn't forbid we have a loss. Okay. Anything else, Dorinda? No. Dorinda, I had one question. Like, are we really paying $47,000 in some pennies for the principal and interest on the fire station in one check? Yep. You bet we are. Okay. That's a lot of money. And it's going to be going on for quite a while longer. Yeah, that's just our bond payment. And I almost think we pay that twice a year maybe. I have to go back and look, but it's a substantial amount. Wow. So how many more years do you think we have on that? I don't know. I'd have to look it up. It's in our town report every year what's left on it, I believe, when it expires. It's got a good run to go, Mary. I can tell you that. Oh, no, I know. I was hoping it was like, you know, maybe it was one of those things we hadn't looked at for a while. So maybe it was a drop precipitously. We just didn't notice. Raises my blood pressure every time we look at the look at the budget. I'm not saying I don't like that building. I do. But you know, was that our highest and best priority at the time? We all supported it at the time, I believe. Anyway, so we've got people from the PCA joining in. If you guys just want to swing through the rest of this agenda, we can be done. Move approval of all the minutes. Is there a second? Second. All in favor of approving those three sets of minutes, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any against? Any opposed? Okay, we've approved them. Liz, I'm sorry to do this to you, but can we defer your discussion of that survey? I studied over the survey. I thought it was very interesting. I did, and I hope everybody else will look over the survey. The only thing that really jumped out to me more than anything else that I didn't expect too much was the lack of support for the walkable middle sex business. But we'll, we'll have the fact that 69% of the people said that why they're really, really interested in all these things. They didn't want to serve on any committees. Yeah. Well, we got a lot of people actually. We got like 15 people interested in the serve in the committee. I know, but I mean 70% said no. Well, I wouldn't either. Stop, but I don't want to. Mary, that doesn't surprise you based upon our collective experience over all these years, does it? Well, I guess it did. I thought it was interesting. I thought it was a good survey and I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be helpful for all of us to look that over and think about it. No, I didn't over it. It was. I just, I guess when you put a number on it, the number of people who don't want to help, but want to be involved, it was just surprising. But you know, I know 10% of the population that answered. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Okay. So anything else for the select board this evening? Any correspondence, Sarah? No. Okay. So I'm going to adjourn the select board meeting only three minutes late. Do you think I have to, just for a zoom point of view, should I like stop this meeting and start the zoom meeting or will it be the same thing? I don't know how these work. I don't know for sure. People zoom into the BCA meeting. Do they get connected to this or is it a separate thing? Theo, is Theo, is Theo's not there? If he's there, he could answer this question. Theo. Theo is there. How'd you get into this meeting, Theo? I use your login ID. Okay. I just don't know if other people are not going to do that or not. Well, isn't, isn't that zoom meeting ID your ongoing meeting ID? So whether it's BCA or select board, it's the same thing. Right. I think it is. All right. I think it's the same. Are we supposed to get off though? No. I'm looking at it. It's actually the same. Okay. I think they are. I'm pretty sure they are. Okay. So now we're going to- Do you send us the minutes for the, I mean, did you send us the agenda for the BCA? I did. I think it's accidentally, I accidentally dated it October 1st. That's not what I put up on the website. But when I sent it to you, I sent it on Thursday along with the policy. Did you get that email along with the policy, the middle sex COVID election day? Yeah. I remember getting the email. I just kind of forgot. So I just need to find the agenda for the BCA. Okay. I'm just going to send it to you again. Can I send it right now, Liz? Yeah. Sure. That's fine. The ice in my drink is a melting. Too bad, Peter. What have you got in that cup, Mary? Ice. What kind of ice? No ice. Nothing else but ice. I racked the gin and tonic already. All right, Liz. I sent it to you. Okay. Oh, is Theo the only person who's joined us? Yep. Only non, yes, select board member. I know Chris was supposed to be here. We talked about it, but he's always late. I haven't gotten it yet. I don't know. I don't want to tell you, Liz. So you said you sent it. You sent the other one on the sixth? I sent the other one on the first. It was five days ago. You sent it on Thursday, yeah, the first. Wait, hold on. Yeah, I sent it to you. Theo, let me just do it. Oh, I see it. I have it. BCA agenda. I got it. Are we calling it to order? Should I call it to order? Are we waiting? That would be up to you, Madam Chairman. And you're done. I mean, did be close off the other meeting. You're in the select board meeting, yeah. Sorry. Okay, so it's 6.05, I'm sorry, 6.06 and we're calling the board of civil authority meeting to order. Looks like we have the same guests that are still on. Orca and Paul and Darinda. Okay, so we're going to prepare for November third 2020 general election designating the following to act as election officials for the general election. David Smith, assistant clerk, Darinda Crowell, treasurer, former assistant clerk, Marika Gillis, moderator Susan Clark, and Betsy Davis. Can I, okay, I meant that to also include Jane Tucker, who's our long time ballot clerk. She told me on Sunday she would like to, she would like to volunteer. Yes. And then Jane Tucker. Is there any discussion? More approval. Okay, any second? Okay, so all those in favor of designating those folks that I just mentioned, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, the ayes have it. So next we're going to appoint two JPs to deliver ballots to housebound voters on election day. Um, action likely. Um, is there a thought of who those two JPs might be? I'll volunteer Charlie. Okay. And Peter. Oh, Charlie and Peter. Okay, any motion or just any discussion on that? Okay. I'll second Steve's motion. Then we have discussion. Okay. So do you want to discuss? Then you move the vote. Okay. All those in favor of, of Peter Hood and Charlie Merriman as the justice of the pieces who will deliver ballots to housebound voters, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, the ayes have it. All right. Appointing a schedule of justice of pieces to be on call via Zoom, should an emergency enter voting. Is it the justices or the BCAs? Yeah, it should be, it should be the BCA. You're right. So I'm sorry about that. Also, Chris said that he's cleared his schedule out for all of, he's all of November 3rd. So I know he'll be available. My, I just want to tell you very briefly what we're going to have to do is, Darinda actually helped work on this. We're going to have voting in town hall. We're going to have three booths, not two booths set up. We're going to have a waiting space for maybe two, for two people no more. That's going to be enough complete because we're going to have people inside working too. And we're going to get a deli counter so that people can remove a ticket if this is packed and they can be called in based on their number from their cars where they hopefully will be keeping warm. And I'm probably going to station either Chris or Charlie and maybe someone else if they want to at the bottom of the stairs under a tent. So if anybody has like one of those little tents that like U32 does for running, do you know what I'm talking about? Pop ups. We need something like that so that we're going to keep the ballot, we're going to keep the absentee ballot box down there. That way people don't have to come up the stairs and get in the traffic. We're just going to put them right down at the bottom of the stairs. People deposit their ballot after verifying their names off the checklist and also verifying that the signature envelopes are signed. So that way we're going to minimize traffic going in and out of town hall because I have the feeling we're going to have a lot of absentee ballots returned that way. So someone might be outside doing that? Yeah, someone's going to be outside doing that. So I'm definitely going to use Charlie because he did that for the primary and he knows the drill and I'm probably going to use Chris since he said he's going to schedule all day but it would probably be good to have someone else's backup who sits there in the cold outside under a tent. And also do any of you guys have those tents? I have a pop up that I can oh someone else has one. I have a four posted pop up thing that I could give to you to use for a minute. Does someone else have one or? I have one too Theo so whatever's easier. Well no I mean in case someone didn't. Has anyone gotten their ballot yet? I haven't gotten mine yet. I don't know Mary. It's all I've been doing for the past 24 hours is answering these calls and sending ballots that were missent. It's just a whole cluster. Everyone is saying they got it except for me. Nope there are plenty of people who haven't gotten their ballots partially because the Secretary of State's office decided to erase the 05682 zip codes off of middle sex ballots and I've had to remail those to 05602. So this has really been this has been a bit of a trial on a passive breaking point to be quite honest. Oh Sarah. It's awful. It's just awful. That's just doesn't let up. So anyway can I have one more person working on that volunteering besides those two that we just. I know. Mary you have to sit outside. Oh okay I was going to volunteer to be the Zoom person with questions. I can do outside. Okay Liz would do it. Is there a better time during the day for you like morning? I'd rather do the morning. I have an afternoon meeting but. Okay Liz why don't we just put you down for the morning for that. Thank you. Like what time? 7 a.m. Yep maybe bring a salamander or something. Bring your electric blanket. My electric blanket with an extension cord. We'll just run it right through the town clerk's office. I'll bring you my motorcycle jacket. You can hook it up to your car with jumper cables. It's toasty warm. That's a good idea. So we've got Liz Theo. I'm sorry not Theo. Liz, Charlie and Chris. Okay great. Thank you. Yep. Okay so now we're but now we are pointing the schedule of of BCAs to be on call via Zoom should an emergency and or voting question arise during election day action likely. Is there a motion? We have those three people there that's enough to do a that's that's enough for because it's with me so I will have we'll have two people that's good. So we don't need that. I think if we can just do if we have the three who are outside if Mary wants to call in Mary are you is there a time when you can be on call more than others during the November 3rd? Any time. We call you at 7 0 5. You can do that in the morning. That's not the best time for me. Because I'm on the BCA so you don't need that. You need her in the afternoon. Okay so we'll do we'll do Liz we'll do her the be yeah well JPs are also on the BCA so I'm happy to be on that list and I'm up early in the morning that's okay so we'll do Peter as a backup in the in the morning and we'll do Mary on the afternoon and just in case afternoon like noon to seven yep okay okay is there a motion for that do we have to move that I'll move it okay all second all right I move that I'll move that Liz Charlie and Chris work outside and be on backup for any disputes regarding any any collection questions and that by zoom Mary is available from Peter is available from 7 a.m. to noon and Mary is available from noon to 7 just in the case we need more backup right okay any discussion on that start up the tabulator with you no and Peter you can bring your pop bring your pop up and if you somehow don't have it or need it just call me and I'll bring my okay okay would you send me an email and remind me to do that Sarah please I will and also if you want to open up the tabulator at six four six thirty you may well I'm happy to do it if you need somebody to do it that's all I don't think we're going to do it because we're just we're going to actually run the ballots on Monday so all we're going to do is turn it off so we're not going to print we're going to turn it off and turn it off we're not putting out anything okay fine you want to come down on Monday beforehand and do that you can do that at 10 o'clock in the morning Sarah if you need me to do it I'll do it if you don't need me to do it I won't do it okay so I'll be around all right okay so is there any further discussion okay so all those in favor of the motion say aye aye opposed all right the ayes have it now we're going to review and approve a list of voters who have registered since the last bca review on July 27 2020 action likely move approval all second any discussion okay so all those in favor of moving um the list of um new voters um or the new checklist say aye aye and opposed okay the ayes have it um reviewing and approving a middle sex COVID-19 election day policy action likely is there a motion I'll move approval is there a second I'll second that yes okay is there a discussion what is this COVID-19 election day policy is that something you wrote up Sarah that I didn't didn't actually read yes and she did a good job on it it's something that we as as we all have learned it's better to be able to hand people policies in case they uh in the case we have problems and we do anticipate a few problems um we just people need to wear masks they can't wear guns and we can't can't harass voters and that they've got to be really clear on that and that's where you're going to come in Liz while you're sitting out there in the cold in the morning in case anybody acts up I'll bring her a gun and my motorcycle just getting better and better I thought you did a real good job with it thanks to you okay so any other discussion all righty all those in favor of the middle sex COVID-19 election day policy um say aye aye opposed all right the ayes have it and we are adjourning at 6 17