 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. While there is no agreed definition of good governance, United Nations human rights define good governance to relate to the political and institutional progress and outcomes that are necessary to achieve the goals of development of any nation. Now the true test of good governance is the degree to which it delivers on the promise of human rights, civil, cultural, economic, political, and social rights. It is only natural to look to the youth, especially, you know, who are the ones demanding, you know, and upholding good governance. However, older members of the nation are known to bring wisdom, calm, dependability, and unconditional love that frame the views of the broader society and shape the future of young generations. So today we're asking what is the responsibility of the older generation, right, in ensuring that good governance truly, you know, is established, especially in our continent, African continent. Now, please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at Weissho, after one, with the hashtag Weissho. So I'll bring you now a guest in a minute. Diola, just want to hear your thoughts. What do you think that the older generation can do? I feel, personally, that they have failed us. Yeah, because again, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember sitting in with my grandpa before, at least I was privileged to meet one of my grandparents before he passed. He would always complain, you know, he used to be a staff of, was it 90 or a lot, he would always complain, government, government, you know, and all of that. And I feel like, you know, that this kind of feeling of there's nothing we can do, docility and all of that. I feel they were the ones that planted that docility in us, you know. So I think it is the rebellion that we now carry it along. As I'm making this new generation, they have gone haywire. Like their own is that if you come for me, I'd blow your blood, you know? So like I feel like, so I feel like if anything needs to be remedied, it will still have to go back to the older generation. Trust me, it's not all these young people that we're seeing. It is when they say, ah, come, this one we've done, we've overdone it. Let us step back. That's when I think we can make any headway. But what do you think? Okay, so I think that mentoring number one, I mean, that's at the core of, you know, getting the younger generation to do better. You know, they come with experience, it's easy for them to say, okay, you know what, we've done it this way. This was the process and all that. It didn't work. There is that. There is also role modeling. You know, of course, now it's a case of do what I say, not what I do. You know, again, like the young people, it is about why you're not acting what you're saying, practice what you preach. You know, so you can be saying something and then be doing something else. You know, again, he sends the wrong signal, then there's conflict resolution. Now, at the older generation, are they truly managing conflicts? So you have situations where even in private sectors, public sectors and wherever, where issues happen, are they really mediating in order to ensure that they are resolving conflicts amicably where everybody becomes a winner? You know, because the true test of how we really have every word is winners. Yes. Is it possible? In some ways, in some ways, I think it's possible. Let me hear Nama your thoughts, then I'll bring in our guests. Quickly, Nama. Yeah, go ahead. Do you want to take the words out of my mouth? Of course, I can't emphasize the role that mentorship has to play. But more importantly, the fact that we need more exemplary leadership. Over the years, I think that's where the young generation have struggled, where a lot of what they've seen have not been exemplary. It's not something that they want to emulate and they're fighting against it. Because like you said, the young generation have felt that this generation has led them down completely in terms of being in charge, being in control, helping them to guide them to see the prospects and to be able to harness their own potentials. They have more of stifled every opportunity that the young ones have to be able to bring value to the table. So the younger generation have actually felt led down in terms of that advisory role, so to speak. We don't have leaders that have shown high levels of wisdom and knowledge, even in management of conflict. And the situations that we have currently in Nigeria could be better, could have been better if we had leaders that better manage situations. But there's a lot to process with the older generation and their role in helping the younger generation understand the process, that there is a process and the role that they are supposed to take on, how responsibility is also part of it. So there's a whole lot to unpack when it comes to governance and the older generation versus the younger generation. And I'm glad that Bola Ho is in the house to bring more light on that. Absolutely, absolutely. On that note, Bola Ho is a professional who has spent the best of the last 30 years. He's the older generation that we are looking for. In corporate Nigeria, his industry exposure cuts across professional services, investment banking, and advisory services. The words are just aligning. So corporate banking, print media, education, healthcare, oil and gas and telecom. He's passionate about issues of leadership and good governance. And of course, he has joined us live in studio looking dapper as always. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Yeah, thanks for having me. I saw you smiling. You were laughing. At that point, we were nodding. You are the older generation we've been waiting for. I mean, like this conversation, you know, it's us trying to look at things in a different light up until 2023, February 25th. I really feel that if anything must change, the youth must step up to the place and make the change happen. Everybody carry load. Carry what's called PVC and all of that. We did all the drama and everything. Today they are in tribuna. You see, they are debating. They've kicked out and televised in whatever. We're keeping all of those things aside. There's a problem. Correct. Especially in the African continent. And this is not really unique to Nigeria, right? We're having issues around good governance. And it seems like, you know, the narrative before was the youth and all of that. But, you know, we are trying to step back on ways to say, no, I think if any problem can be solved, it is to trace it back to where it started in the first place. But anybody we cite with gray hair like Balao, we are tracing the problem back to you. But hey, that's just an enlightened note. Really, when we talk about good governance and the responsibility of the older generation, where do we start from? Do they even have any responsibility in ensuring that there's good governance? Do they have any role to play? Obviously. The older generation has a very huge role to play. And it starts from exemplary leadership. One of the voids that we have is a situation in which a lot of young people could not see someone to look up to. And where there is nobody to look up to, whoever they find, whether it's a publicly weed smoking entertainer, whoever catches their fancy in terms of however they have defined what they look up to. That's who they will follow. So the younger people look up and they want to see, let me tell you one short story. My son, I took him for exam, primary school exam some years ago. When he came out of the exam, he was physically flustered. I said, what happened? He said they were dictating the answers in the exam hall and teachers were walking around and asking what people have written, giving them answers, script and all of that. The young boy was totally embarrassed. Now that is from coming from a generation it was meant to look up to. These were the same set as his own teachers in school, but that is what they were doing. So this can cut across to several other segments of our society, whether it is leadership at the local government level, even at the traditional ruler level. We now have situations in which even wife beaters are becoming traditional rulers. So when there are not many people to look up to, the society becomes what it has become. So one very good step in the right direction is to have more leaders who show them the light, exemplary leadership. And the more of those we have, the more of them are willing to also mentor the young people, the better for the society. Young people, there are gaps for them also. The current generation are not just a product of the notch of their parents, like maybe someone like me, cool have been. I was largely a product of the notch of my parents under school. They are not taught by too many things from the TV to the internet, so many things. So even some of the parents do not know their own children. It's totally different from my own generation. When your parent could literally say, that is where you would likely be, it's a totally different goal. So the older generation must make it a point of duty to understand. A lot of us do not understand that generation. We are puzzled. Why do they do what they do? Why do they behave the way they behave? But paying attention to them and trying to understand where they're coming from may help us to help them or to support them rather than having a fight, because that's what we literally have with them. So I want to ask the question, I'll come to you, Diola. I know, help me out here, the Yoruba culture. When, I mean, they told me about the story of the Aguada. It was supposed to signify, you know, you've done hard work and all of that. And that's why you're wearing that regalia, because it's almost like a proof that this is to showcase that. You've been there, done that. I've been, I've put in the work, and this is my achievements and all of that. Because we're talking about older generation. Correct. Look at where we are today in terms of moral standing. I told someone, I said, see, I don't have a problem, whoever they want to select or elect as a leader. When someone, I know that there are some things I will not come out for, because there is a question mark in my character as a person. So because of that, I will decide that, you know what, let me step back. Let's look for someone that has a bit of transparency and clarity with their records. Let me push that person forward. And so I take a backseat so that, you know, my reputation does not taint the position, right? You are in a country where certain allegations were made, right? And all of a sudden, it seems like we are all turning a blind eye. On one hand, we're turning a blind eye to certain kinds of things and allegations. On the other hand, with the same mouse, we're complaining that there's a rise of thought stars, there's a rise of internet, what's it called, cameras and, you know, different things, rise of usage of drugs and all of those things. Does it not conflict, right? Because if we say, because I feel like everything now, it's coming full circle. And I think, right, if we must find a solution to this problem in Nigeria, everybody that is 50 and below, you know, I mean, sorry, 50 and below, you have no business with the problem. People that are 50 and above, you were the problem of our country. It's as simple as that. Because you see, what you have done is that we are mirroring. And you know the thing about mirror, when you do, if I learn from you, I will be better than you. Because what we have, we are successfully doing as a nation, we are breathing, we are like we're breathing ground for real hardcore criminality. Because that's what is happening. So if we say we want to curb it, then we must start to see the older generation, people that have questionable characters, people that have been linked to whatever, let's start to see some level of, you know, what we completely frown at this thing. And let's see those judgments happening. Maybe that's why Aquarium Madu's case, you know, is looking like people are saying, okay, yes, some level of justice is happening. But if we do not see that, right? And this is not us trying to now fight. It is the older generation themselves saying that, no, this one, no, my hands are not clean. Let me step back. Because if I go there, I'm telling people that it is okay to do crime and you will still be celebrated. I don't know if you get what we are going to do. I don't know what you're saying. You have divided the society in a way different from how I would have divided it. You divided it by age. But I don't think age exactly is the problem. So what's the problem? You see, an analogy is when you take the northern Nigeria and people say, oh, they don't want to go to school. We have got the Western education is a taboo or something in some part. But when you look closely, what you find is not this homogeneous environment where people do not want to go to school. No, it is actually an elite and political class versus the rest of the people. So while the children of the elite and political class in that part, we go to the best of schools in Nigeria and proceed abroad and come back to take all the roles. It has been presented as if those other children of the commoners don't like, they don't like to go to school. I was a friend of mine about school in certain part of the north. He said, the impression that people don't want to go to school is largely wrong. In some instances, there are even no schools to go to. Nobody is talking about those parts. So the problem with Nigeria, we tend to look at leadership and separate public sector and private sector. It's a tendency to think that it is government that is corrupt. But in the real sense, without the private sector, the corruption of government will be limited. How do you carry out the money? Who pays the other money? He must launder them through banks. Yes, he must pass through the private sector. Yes. So it is a private sector that facilitates, so why we are dealing with is much more deeper than age matters. So even across that age that you have spoken about, I was speaking with a young man who took a ride with me one day and he was talking about how we had nobody to trust that it was in the days of removal of subsidy by Jonathan, that if created this committee that is meant to supervise the right and that there is nobody. And then another person was also there. Now, he said, but there is justice kind of there. I said, at that time, he was mentioning just kind of there. He was already late. I said, but justice is late. So there are still people here to do all those overcasts, pristine records. But the Akintola Williams are still alive. Christopher Coladette is still alive. They are also of that same generation, right? So it is not an entire generation that you cannot trust. That is not what has happened to us. But there are bad eggs and it has become so pervasive and systematic and systemic that the younger generation are also in Barbie. So I agree with you perfectly that within the younger generation, the problem is even probably deeper because they've learned from the worst and they've learned from the worst. That is why even in a political space, when people say, oh, you saw these old people, I said, how old was Amici in 1999? How old was Yahya when he became governor? Even then, how old were they? Most of these people were young. A lot of them were below 40 when they came into politics in 1999. How old was Vicky? Vicky is just 53 or something, 56. So take out 84. Take out 24, which was when he came into politics. And you see he has been around for a long time. So we will miss it if we think it is just an age problem. However, the older generation must be deliberate also about helping the society to understand what the problems are by living exemplary. Begin to set an example. Let's be able to have more Christopher Collardies. Let's be able to have more of those. What's the former vice president? He's late now from Oco in Anambra State. You see all these people that have been there and they lived an example. In fact, when I was, when I got chartered, what's the name of this former vice president of Tujagari now? I'm trying to find this. When I was being inducted, Alex Sekwemi, I also had someone, I can't remember, but there was a child or someone who was getting inducted. So he came. You know, this man was sitting in the crowd. He was somebody that identified him and said, Ah, you're excellency. This is the former vice president and I had to call him up to recognize him. Where are those men? We are coming. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. All right. Thanks for staying with us. Now, if you're just cheering in, we're discussing the topic, good governance and the responsibilities of the older generation and we have with us Bala and Olajade. Now, remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-803-4663. You can also do that at WESHO Africa one with the hashtag WESHO. So before we're on the break, you were saying, where are those people? Well, we are actually searching for them. Okay. So again, for me, I think we need to go back to asking ourselves, who are we? We have an identity problem. And if you don't know who you are, it's very, it's almost impossible to replicate yourself or to tell another person, you know, how to be good or how to have values and all to even give a history or to even say, okay, you know what? This is the path you should stay on this path. Now, if you don't know who you are, you would also fall for anything. Exactly. Exactly. So now I am looking back to the age of my father's. Okay. He was in his late seventies before he passed just recently. And when you hear them talk, you can sense the sense of, oh, okay, let me give an example. The Yoruba people deprive themselves of being a people of culture. And you would imagine that or you would think that to a very large extent, that culture should drive their daily living. A proper Yoruba person, you are expected to behave in a certain way. At the root of all that is, don't do what would shame your parents. You're probably proud of yourself. Do you understand? But when you come back now and then you are asking yourselves, I mean, at what point, if people are 50 something, 60 something, it's almost as if they have forgotten this basic rule, whether from the north or from the south or from the east, we all have fundamental cultures that should drive our daily living. Again, it goes back to identity, whether they don't say it's enough or whether we just feel, okay, you know what? We have evolved to the point where that is not necessary anymore. Do you want to speak to that? You see, the problem with identity is a very serious matter. As a matter of fact, it's also part of the regrets we will have over time with the current JAPA syndrome. A lot of people have lost interest. We've had a situation where we read news about people tearing their passports. There is a belief that when you go out there, all the opportunity, you become a citizen today in the UK, you can contest election, I probably can win. But you see, having around enough to see people who have lived a part of their life in Nigeria and then went abroad, their mind never left Nigeria. If you were born out there and you've never experienced, there is no part of you. It's a different thing. As a matter of fact, most of the news about Nigeria that I get every day is from my friends who are abroad. And I'm asking myself, you are the way you are abroad. I thought she would be the matter that is primary to you. But no, they listen because they still wish for this country to work. But if people don't even have an identity, they have no roots to hold on to. They easily get blown away by anything. And it is not good for us as a country. The way India has been able to manage its own situation in which a lot of people left India around the same time. And today, they not only have planted themselves firmly in many parts of the world, they are also returning back. But I think India did a major role in bringing those things to happen, bringing the people back. Can we also do the same? That's what we want. Okay, Bola. Wow. Thank you so much. I mean, it's already, I'm just thinking, I'm just building in my head and just wondering, like, oh, wow, what's the way forward for us as a nation? So I wanted to ask a question that regards respect. You know, they say respect is reciprocal. And in as much as the older generation, they desire that the young generation respect them or look up to them. But the younger generation are complaining that there's nothing to look up to because what has been passed on from one generation to the other is what has brought us to where we are as a nation today. So I want to ask, what is the older generation not paying attention to? And what can they do to begin to earn the trust of the younger generation? Because really, the truth of it is that we cannot do away with the older generation. Like Jola said earlier, they have the experience and they have the wisdom whether they are aware of it or not. So how can they be relevant? Apart from being an example or role modeling, how can they actually pay attention to the needs of the younger generation and plant themselves to become impactful in order for us to really change the narrative that is already our reality in today's Nigeria? I believe they must be deliberate about understanding that generation. We don't. The older generation does not exactly understand that generation much. So and if you don't understand a problem, how do you proceed to solve it? So deliberate effort to understand them and draw them in. As it is today, they are at loggerheads. Meanwhile, there are mutual values across both groups and those values could be passed on if there is enough attention to understanding those people and supporting them to succeed because that is the future. These older people also get old and out of the place. Sorry, as an aside, let me just ask this older generation now. So what's gap? Are we looking at? Because there is also the, some of them did the partial life, but they just refuse to depart. There is also an issue, a huge gap between, well, millennials and then Gen Z. There is a war going on. Millennials will blame Gen Z. Gen Z is blaming millennials. So the millennials, who are they blaming? So I think it is also very important to even understand who we refer to as the older generation. But we said we are older generations. Someone would just take a cocktail of 50 and above. That's what I said. I said it from the one. I calculated it for you people. But I get your point really strongly that if we limit it to age, they will lose or will miss the real challenge. And again, if we truly say we want to solve a problem, we must also trace it back to the root. So where did we lose our conscience? Where did we lose? Because now it seems like we do things consciously less. We just do it, you know, because I can do it. Now, see this governor that we read his story. Let's even just focus on legal state governor. So the salary has come back to me. I said after completing his tenure, the governor is expected to receive a 6.6. So 6.6 million plus sovereigns gratuity. And the breakdown of the salary, the total salary will be about 11.5 million. That sounds gratuity. Yeah. So let me explain the thing because you are the finance man. So what gives? Can they put up a dollar post taking? What gives that you are? Because when we say there's a problem, this is the problem that we're seeing, right? That you sit down and you think it is okay. We're in a state where we are complaining that we have financial crisis as a country, right? And somebody sits down and sits on this kind of bill, right? They say it has past second hearing. Yeah. If it's not signed before May 29th, they will not start all over again. So what they've been doing to us is that they'll just lead us, lead us, lead us. May 29th, they'll not sign it, they'll take it back again. That you're asking for 300% of the basic salary of furniture. Like, please, what is this? Like really, what is this? For life. So if you live for the next 30 years, this goes on. Do you understand what I'm saying? So this is why we say that, you know, for me, it does not make any sense, right? Because all these people, I get it. A lot of these people, some of them, in their 30s, they were in their 20s. And like I said to you that, the problem is vicious. If I learn corruption from you, I cannot do it the way you did it. Are we at technology? You can never catch me. It's impossible. Just forget it that there is no way that you will match up to me. That's why now I'm so scared. I see 20-something-year-olds buying a car of 200 million. I called my sister the other day. I said, I've not been working hard. Do you understand? 200 million, 300 million. They are buying properties. So what we are doing is that we have successfully built a generation that's like you thought, okay, this we don't have conscious. This one, if they open, okay, our generation, they are conscious that they are back. This one, when they open now, there's no sign. So how do we solve this problem? So how can the older generation mend this problem? Because I will still put it back, that they really are the originators of the problem. But it's good that we're discussing the problem. And I think it's part of the way. For Liga State, for example, I remember that in 2021, Liga State actually halved the gratuity and all the benefits that it provided for the government. That was because even around that time, there was a lot of agitation. And they cut it down by 50%. So if there's a need to revisit that further, let's revisit it. But you see, the problem is deep. It is deep. It is. You just mentioned the gratuity of a level million. What is a level million to a governor as a gratuity? What is it? It's like a drop in the ocean. It doesn't mean anything. Those are things you give to, we should be thinking of being able to give to preschool principals, when they lead, not a governor. I'm not a governor of Liga State who presides over close to two trillionaires in budget every year. So the safety net, what do I come back to after I'm done here? Must be robust, but it shouldn't be exploitative and disgusting to the people. It's all we have. I wanted to tell you the party, one from retired justice house in Ikoi. And when I got to that house, I'm like, okay, if this is where judges then what's the point? Why would I be corrupt? If you see space, not all those choking Ikoi, whatever, where there will be, spare is alone. So those people must be comfortable and that is meant to dissuade Anki Panky. Because I said it today that, I mean, I saw your post today and I talked, they talked about poverty even the media, right? People in the media space, journalists are very poor or they don't do, they're not paid well, their remuneration is poor. Tell me if I'm ending 20,000 or 70,000 and there's a report that can fetch me 700 million, why would I not kill the story and take the money? Right? So it's, it's a systemic problem. It is actually, it's a systemic problem. There's no way you have a number of poor people that we have and things will improve. We first have to deal with it from a sense, every purpose. Lift more people out of that poverty. When more people come out of poverty then we begin to see reduction in corruption. Go enter any eatery in Lagos today as you are packing. The way some people are already greeting you and all that is not corruption, that is actually begging and it shows the high level of poverty. When you go and ask how much that guy gets paid, 30,000 and you're asking, so 30,000, you probably have a wife, some of them are children, they are sending to school, they have to pay rent, they pay electricity and you're wondering, so how exactly do you live? They live on what you call transpire income. Transpire income are income that they end with not the one. So you go on a date and give you 200 bucks, 500, 1K. That's what they live on. A society that is built on that will not be able to successfully fight. Corruption, absolutely, absolutely. It's an ongoing conversation I think. And I think at a very basic level, there are just some things that we must do. I always say that every opportunity you find yourselves, you must do right before you end the right to be able to say to another person that you are not doing right. Yes. A lot of things we're doing sometimes. There are some things I cannot come out to say, I want to go out and run. There is some position I cannot run. Do you understand? Because I'm not really. So let me step. I'm saying that can we prick the conscience of the older generation now? We've tried everything. We've tried to fight them. It's not working. We've tried these. So can we prick their conscience? Like, okay, just for the sake of who is coming in front. Can you just, this thing, there's question not around you. Do you understand? You're falling fully back separating this matter by age. You see, within that older generation, you are talking about people who are complaining about some elites that they can political class that they see in front. They are in the same shoes as those younger people who are also complaining that Okay, so can we prick the conscience of our people in leadership? Yes, let's continue to prick the conscience of people in leadership to live exemplary lives and we can begin to turn things around and reveal this nation block by block. These are the people who are looking out and if they are not living up to the whatever, the society will not, will not hear. Thank you very much. At that time, I'll have your definition. But thank you. I really feel pained for, hey, we will leave. It is what it is. We'll get better. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jola. Thank you, Noma. Now, before we go and show you followers across all our social media handles, let me apologize. It's because of me that we're not taking messages today. I will try to read it tomorrow. I'm sorry. Follow us across all our social media handles at Weishaw Africa. You can interact with us further. Drop a comment. Most importantly, follow all our engagements on social media, like and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. Now, if you missed our quote here, it is again, each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it and wiser than the one that comes after it. It's this way. See you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. We're having another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.