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What the Villa game I was buoyed up at that point to be honest with you. You know obviously coming off the back of the Brentford result which didn't expect anything there. And then didn't expect anything at Villa and yeah I thought well this is good. You know maybe we've turned the corner and this is where our season changes. And then obviously you know Saturday happened. And I don't know what to say anymore. You know the simple thing is I really don't know what to say anymore. Not great for a podcast I'll be honest. No I know it's not. It doesn't kind of you know sort of hook you in really for the next 40 minutes. But I mean the reality is that they were they look fine for the first 20 minutes. I thought they were creating chances. I thought they looked far and away the better side and I thought well this is going to be all right. It's going to go the way that we imagine it will go. But they didn't take the chances and you rue the chances. And then obviously you know Luton kind of thought you know what we can we can get into this. They had that header of Tom Lockyer that went over the bar and I think that suddenly gave them a bit of belief. And then obviously Tom Lockyer wanted it more than Ashley Young. And obviously got his goal that way. And then you've got you know you've got Carlton Morris completely unmarked on the fast stick. Boom done. Boom. Do you think the big problem is we didn't expect anything to print. We didn't expect anything available on both and expect something on Saturday when back to normal. Maybe yeah and maybe it's a maybe it's a head thing. Maybe that's the issue you know. I mean for years now I mean way before Shaun Dice time. I've always felt that you know we play better against the better sides. Often we slip up against those sides which can only be a mental thing where they seem to be complacent. They seem to think oh well you know we'll do Luton, do Bournemouth, do whoever. You know and they've played better against the cities and the United's and whatever of this thing. But yeah maybe it was that. Maybe they just thought this is a done deal and there are no done deals. And as they proved and suddenly we find ourselves back to our normal level don't we? It is our normal level isn't it? Very much, very much. Thinking about this last couple of days you know since the defeat and it's just like this is our level. It's like I don't know. It's like when you win games like Villa or you beat Brentford there is a high because you don't expect to win those games. But for some reason there was a feeling on Saturday that it was going to be one of those games. It just felt like to me and I think a few other people like it was going to be one of those games. And it had to be a game which we had to get over. It had to be a game where we had to just go and win a game we were expected to win. And seeing the thing last night with like Frank Lampard on Monday Night Football. I think we've won like two in the last three years. Maybe you might even be more against promoted teams. You know just awful, awful stats of the team. What did he say about that? He said no because he barely asked them a difficult question. But it was you know you think about the reasons why and people pointing fingers. But ultimately the players and the managers are just not good enough to step up when there's an expectation on them. Unless it's like the last game of the season when you have to win. And that's the problem isn't it? It's just like there's no level consistency with any of these teams in the last three years. There's no you know what you're going to get today. And Saturday was the perfect illustration there as Dave said. First 20 minutes we had three, four shots, decent efforts, got the crowd excited about the game. And then the first time Luton sort of exited any, not even pressure. It wasn't even pressure it was just turning us round. It was all Sunday league tricks. It was turning us round making us face our own goals starting to panic us a little bit with set pieces. Not even difficult set pieces just overloads again Sunday league stuff or like lower division stuff. And then they got the just rewards for doing that and everything just have no bravery. There's no bravery about the team. There's no bravery about the manager. I have no issue saying that. The manager's just not a brave man. And we're getting what we deserve again because of this, this way we everything's just too safe. And there's no, as I said, bravery. I think it's a really important word because I don't see people being brave on the ball. And I don't see the manager being brave with the decisions he makes. Dave, the home form. I think it's 13 defeats in 19 at Godduson now. It's seven in the last eight, which is atrocious isn't it? And for a team that isn't one of the better teams in the league, your home form is so important isn't it? To keep yourself out of trouble. I personally still believe, I still believe we'll get more points definitely than Luton after watching them on Saturday. But certainly I think we'll get more points than Luton Sheffield United and Burnley, which therefore puts everything fourth bottom. But that cannot be a bad, I said this the other day. That cannot be a bad, that we are proud of, that there might be three teams who are slightly worse than we are, because our home form is atrocious. Yeah, and the other issue with, you know, the other issue with taking that kind of optimism, if it is indeed optimism, is the fact that there will then be games within that run or that season or whatever, which don't go according to plan, such as Saturday, such as could well be this Saturday against Bournemouth, who will be a tougher opposition than Luton for sure. And that's the risk that you have, you know, for me at five o'clock on Saturday, I just felt these are the sort of results that get you relegated. They really are, you know, these are the ones that you look back on, and you kind of go, we had to do that. You know, do you remember that runner game? So, you know, the home games before Dice started last year, and we were a bit like, you know what, if we'd had Dice, we wouldn't have lost that. We wouldn't have lost that. We wouldn't have lost that. We would have been six or seven points better on them than they were. But it was, you know, listen, whichever way you look at it, it was an absolutely must win game, and they should never have lost that game on Saturday. And going to your point, Paed, about bravery, you know, it's about rolling your sleeves up. It's about getting stuck in. It's about commitment. It's about effort. It's about work rates. And all of those are the words that essentially mean the same thing. But, you know, there's just not enough of it. You know, we're not talking about being outplayed on a skills level. You know, we're not about, you know, facing a side that we know are better than us. It's about going toe-to-toe, you know, 11 versus 11, and actually wanting it more. You know, and I thought, you know, a fair play. I thought Tom Lockyer's goal, you know, to break the deadlock, was what it was all about. He wanted it more. He wanted it more. He wanted it more. He got in there, and he threw it at it, and he deserved that. Well, even when you look at, like, the stills of afterwards, it's in my brand. I mean, again, it was highlighted on Monday Night Football. In my brand, we've got all the people there, and the rest of them should have. And they're on, like, the left side of the goal, if you look at it from the parking. And he somehow still manages to get over to Ashley Young. Cos Young's time to take a touch. Instead of just hollering it away, face side. But even that, though, there's... How often would you see that happen, and the player just take a touch and just lash it away with anyone? No one going near him. And yet he had the desire to make sure that I'm going to make something out of this. If that ball drops, I'm having that, because they are the small margins that a club needs to work on. A club like that needs to work on. Nobody don't do it because there's a thing about our players. And there always has been of, like... An arrogance about them. Like, they don't have to roll the sleeves up, like too many players can just walk around and do nothing and get away with it because there's no repercussions. And I'm sorry, but the manager's buying into that as well. No, the manager's buying into that whole thing. It's like, I don't get... I honestly just don't get this manager. I don't get how a guy who is famous for keeping Bailey in the Premier League with so little can work with so much more, I believe. And not get the place to do the basics of working hard, doing your job, keeping clean sheets, not getting beat at home. Maybe not always winning at home, but not getting beat at home. Like that should be the fundamental. Like if we're the drone against fallen wolves and looting. There's another three-point state. We haven't got it, but it's a win in it. And it's also not one-of-a-game. It's also a game full of massive ones, and it's also a game of wolves haven't won. And you've got to remember that as well. Like Forrest, at the weekend, dance at 10 men, they ground a 1-1 out. Now they could have lost it, but he didn't send that point. That is the big thing. It is weird because he has said on a lot of occasions, there's so much more at this club than what he's had before. Yeah, the results don't match that. So why doesn't he really shake it up thing? You know, if people are letting on that, because he must feel when you're a manager and you've got a team, you look and you know who's your better players and you know who might be letting you down a little bit. And if you've got a decent squad on Saturday, with all due respect to Luton, who are a limited side, and they are limited because they've not spent any money. They're still essentially a champion. It's the protein that I've arranged it as well. Exactly like Sir Ross and all that. You know, people like that, and you've got Laconga from Arsenal, who's a good player, he was out as well. But they're very basic, and yet Everton lined up in a negative defensive manner as if we were playing Man City. We really should have gone by playing Luton at home. They've not won a game. They haven't got that much to really hate us with other than set pieces. I'm playing 4-3-3 and we're going for it. We're going two wingers. We've got Dom in the box. We're going to be getting wide, throwing crosses in full. And if they'd have done that, I think the crowd would have reacted to it. Because you're right, Dave. The first 15 minutes, we did start on the front foot and we had all the ball and we missed a few chances. But you know what? By the time we missed the third one, you felt the ground go, there we go again. Almost as if it's so difficult for us to put the ball in the back of the net. Dave gave us the ball and we had all the ball. The possession tells you that. We've got no idea what we are doing with the ball and if you haven't got your... If you're not on the front foot against these kind of teams at home and you're flying at them and making them feel like they're under pressure, they will have those moments where they break away and get corners and put you under pressure. But you know, as you say, they should have been clearly up with daylight between them before Luton got any self-belief. And we've seen it so many times, haven't we? Where we've huffed and puffed and we haven't done anything and then that side like a Luton kind of go, you know what, we could get something here. You know, these are beatable. And I just remember seeing a real sort of sea change in the mentality. And I think it was around the time of the Tom Lockyer pedder that went over. That to me was when they kind of thought, you know what, these aren't all that. We could get something here. This is nothing to be afraid of. And that to me was the difference. When I come back to Daish, I feel, it just feels to me that he's changed. He's washing his hands of it now. I think there's something about his body language now where he's doing that whole thing. Do you know what? It's almost, I can't do this. In other words, there's stuff going on here which makes my job almost impossible. I think it's something that was alluded to it last night on Sky. And it's all about what lurks beneath. What is the Loch Ness monster of bloody evidence? What is the great unsaid that all of these managers can all talk about in private, whether it's Silver, whether it's Anciolotti, whether it's Benitez, whether it's Lampard, whether it's whoever, right? They're all going to say the same thing. Yes, it didn't work because of that or them or this or whatever it is, right? And Daish is starting to demonstrate that to me in not so many words. Yes, I felt in his press conference, there was a little bit of what more can I do? That's what I felt. Exactly. Even a bit some, I see a time of like, I've done my bit then. And he's never really been like that before. He's normally been. And I think I've seen this with Lampard towards the end, where it was always us. It started becoming, it started just looking beaten, didn't it? I've like, well, I can't do any more than this. And Benitez, Carlo even said, didn't he? This team's got two faces, yet the team's massively changed from him. So what is that then? What is lying Benitez? I don't know. I honestly don't know. And I wish I did. I don't know whether you know, Ped. I don't know what the answer is. I think, I mean, it's obviously alluding to those on behind the scenes. If those people aren't there, now what do we do? Now I know, but the club is still run by jokers. Let's get it right. I mean, it's the biggest takeaway you see is, we can't sack this manager because there's no one to sack him or there's no money to sack him. I mean, what a position to, I mean, I don't think that's a great position to be in as a manager because you need to be able to talk to people every day. You need to be able to feel like there's a change in the mind and there's direction and there's people. If the club is ruthless, obviously before he, you know, the situation now, you would have had other, obviously, Michelle, these people in charge, and they were just useless. I mean, there's no way about it. I have no issue with saying they're useless. That's why they're not there anymore. The current board is just nonsense. It's just, it's the manly Celeste, isn't it? It's just drifting along. The whole club just feels like it's drifting along. And I do feel sorry for Sean Dyson away because I feel like he's the fakes of it. And I feel like he shouldn't, you know, it's really unfortunate for him, for him to be in that position because I don't think he's got the tools to deal with it. I really don't because he peddles out the same lines all the time. It is all management speak. It is like he's bleeding. Just he's on a Jake Humphreys podcast and they're just all the buzzwears are coming out. But he shouldn't have done that, isn't he? No, but he shouldn't have. But he shouldn't have done that because you can't relate to him as a manager then. You can't have a relationship with your manager if your manager can't talk to you. I always say when someone's in a press conference they're not talking to the press. They're talking to the fans. Don't bullshit us. The press aren't interested. They're not interested. They're just doing their jobs to get that message over to us. Now, the way it works now, it comes directly to us. And I just think that you've got a level with fans about situations. But I just think the job is getting out. Like they said, it's getting away from him. And he will start peddling out, saying excuses unless he's brave. Like I said then, if he'd gone out on Saturday and we'd gone on the front foot and we hadn't let them off then you'd say the manager's done his part. He set a team up to win this game. He set us up to win a game on Saturday. He just didn't. No, it was just courses. It was just a courses. Just a courses. The two wins. I get a fairly poor side. But here's the question for you then. And the risk of oversimplifying it, what is a big issue. If we all agree that obviously there is systemic problems at the club from top to bottom, right? We know that, right? Board level and middle management level and everything, right? That's one thing. And that could then explain why a manager hasn't been backed in the transfer market and the fact that the recruitment process hasn't been effective, et cetera, et cetera. But ultimately, when you get to Saturday afternoon, right? You've got that group of players who the manager is preparing. Now, if we're saying again the risk of generalising the fact that they didn't show the bravery that was required to actually, you know, win that game on Saturday, that's nothing to do with boardroom level. No, it shouldn't be. But you know what I mean? And this is what I don't understand. Because when you look at it, when it comes down to matters on the pitch, right? That's to do with the management, the coaching staff and obviously the personnel that are there on the pitch and on the bench. That's it, right? It's nothing to do with boardroom level or anything like that or culture of the club, any of that shit. It's to do with who's physically there. Now, when you look back at the fact that these problems have existed under different managers with completely different playing staff, I still fail to understand what that common problem is. You know, what's that problem that existed in Silver's Day and existed with Allardyce and existed with Ancelotti that's still there now? Because it's not, you know, you could look at a group of players and kind of go, do you know what, they were gutless, right? They didn't fight, they weren't up for it, they didn't roll their sleeves up. But there's been so many different lineups of people that they can't all have that problem. Well, I mean, there's only one constant, isn't it? And it's the fan base, that's the only constant. So that makes you think, can this level of player not cope with the pressures that come with playing for Everton Football Club and the pressures of playing inside Gouldison? Because a lot's been thrown on the fans, by other fans, sadly, which makes it worse of how Gouldison is. I mean, I'm of the opinion, anything Baz has to say, that Gouldison's not a hard place to play if you just do what you're supposed to do. And I just think the level of player we buy just can't cope with playing at Gouldison. I don't know why, I don't know why that is. I don't know why playing in front of 30 or 1000 fans who hate you from the start, they can get away with that at times. But yet they come to Gouldison and they can't seem to cope with the demands that are there. And I think they're legitimate demands. We're still, as far as we're concerned, we're still a big club. We still want to see our team win. When people talk about patience, well, I've been patient for 28 years. I've been quite patient in terms of that. When you see what goes on in other places in other countries, when fans are impatient for what we do compared to what they do, are completely two different worlds. So maybe it's a mental thing, maybe we've got plays you just can't cope playing in a place which demands home wins. And Lampard bought into this sadly as well because he said after the walls game well, the fans wanted us. It was the only real time he did say that. He said it though. She sat a day and reminded me of Southampton game under Lampard. That defeat, it was the same. Southampton that day, Lampard's last home game. Southampton were awful. They were properly awful. They had no threat or anything. They broke once, War Pralschood. They then defended, broke again and then War Pralschood and that was it, they defended. We had no answer and on Saturday he felt the shame. A poor sigh had come to Godderson. I know what does that make us because we couldn't break them down but you know what I mean? It was that limp defeat and that was what it was like and then the manager after it and you're going, how do we pick it up? Dave you're right, we've got Bournemouth this weekend and they're miles better and I reckon because I don't know what his approach will be but in terms of the players we've had many different players I don't think it's just because we expect to win home games that's not a difficult thing most teams win home games I don't know whether that's a thing I just think I don't think we ever stick to the plan there's something going on at our club and I don't know what it is but managers come in with a Satan style and never kind of live up to that style do you know what I mean? Marco Silva for instance Cuman was all high-press came in and got rid of it within two games because he had ROM so we just changed the way he played Silva coming had played great football and Wofford wanted to play 4-3-3 and never ever went to it then we got rid of him Carlos difference, he was his own thing then Rafa Benitez coming and we were going to get a defensive master class and yet we just let Wofford score 5 against us at home and things like that then Lampard coming and we're going to play off the front high-press possession game after three weeks but then didn't stick with what got on results changed again and then Dyche coming and we're going to do this and we'll be great in both boxes off set pieces and we're going to be tight again and I'm thinking well what a lot of games will be like the Arsenal game at home like 1-0 we'll scrap a win we'll battle and scrap and keep it tight we don't keep clean sheets we let goals in we don't score, we've scored eight goals in his reign Dave eight goals and Newcastle got that at Sheffield United last week talking about players again just to further depress us Anthony Gordon looked absolutely outstanding for Newcastle in that game but they've got no why though because he was good for us he wasn't amazing but when you put him in a team it's like on Anna Dave people are on Anna's back if you dropped him into Arsenal or City everyone would be going he wasn't like that for us you've got players, you've got good players but because there's no pattern of play they're just lost in what's going on and to be fair to Gordon the first, when under Lampard he was good in the first like the first relegation battle let's call it that, version one then he was crap let's be honest because he wanted to go and he's gone to Newcastle and everything's positive and they're playing well and he's a good player and he's in a squad he's got good players so you're right Dave he's a good player he looked great for them I still don't care Dave about him I'm not saying that I suppose the point of that is to highlight the fact that here we are talking about players who aren't doing it for whatever reason under management at our club and then you look at other players who have been part of that squad over the last few years who have then gone on somewhere else he just looked outstanding it does help when managers play you're in your proper position and give you freedom that helps that's the thing the thing about it is if you can pull good players or handle the good players I just think we need to I think the manager just needs to go look this is what we're doing win lose or draw this is my style this is the way we're playing we need to buy into it it's already really good at one of those things yes but that's where we've got to change it's got to change very quickly Dave B.I.R. just quickly it continues to get worse on the scrutiny around it obviously there was the big the stuff obviously Liverpool over the weekend but there's just so much of it isn't it that where do you stand on it at the moment because obviously you do the EFL podcast thing that there's no B.I.R. in the championship and the other leagues and they all seem pretty happy so where are you on this B.I.R. chat tell you where I am I never wanted it in the first place and I think that the game was better without it personally I was never I was never looking forward to it I was never a fan and I think it changes the whole human dynamic of it and yes of course mistakes were made in the old days human era was made but you'd get some you'd lose some but that was the same for everybody and so I can't really I don't really see the positives with it personally as you say the EFL doesn't have it and they seem to be quite happy to exist without it but it's not for me and especially when even when it's there it still has to be interpreted by humans anyway and herein lies the problem and as we can prove once again it's not the finished article and it doesn't eliminate the problems that I suppose it was brought in to do so See ideally like V.I.R. Dave I'm completely opposite I sort of hate injustices certainly in football and I'm really in favour of V.I.R. but this version of it is just a joke certainly in this country and what Saturday was was just the worst example of it and if they got rid of it fine they won't but if they did I would understand why but I just think it's so easy to to use if it's used properly and if they use it in a way that it's only sort of used when it's needed if that makes sense so like things like when a goal goes in you know allow people to celebrate the goal and then if they go oh I'm gone we've just seen something there not this thing of like it's not really a goal so we've checked it like no like the seek the way this like the sequences of how they use it but then like on Saturday and I think I've seen Ben Foster talk about this on his podcast it's like and I think we spoke about this yesterday it's like like Sky went out of the way to sort of ignore what had gone on in the game like a Stan Collymor said that I think he was doing it for a foreign TV channel and he said they were on it straight away and they were highlighting that it was a mistake and the VAR had got it wrong and yet Sky brushed it off and there's this very weird relationship with the Premier League, VAR and the broadcasters in this country where and I've seen this on social media, I don't know if you've seen this you ever seen it when someone puts up like a video of an incident that's happening a match on on Twitter of like something bad that's happened with the referee and it goes like they're dead quickly because of copyright reasons and yet you stick goals up in all kinds and they never get touched and it's like it's like they're terrified of their product being like shown up and again we've had this we had this couple years ago with Brentford where we should have had a penalty Rondon got brought down and they talked about it for 10 seconds and the broadcasters are complicit in this, the show they don't want to talk about things till you have to talk about them and they do this they do this mostly with clubs like Everton and other clubs around where we are clubs are not in the top 6-7 if they can ignore like a VAR thing like the forest one on Sunday is that absolute disgrace the penalty that Brentford should have had and yet it's barely being talked about over the weekend but this Liverpool one has because it's purely human error because the guy in the VAR don't know if they were having a pot noodle or something when they should have been watching the screen and that to me is the most annoying thing and I know it would be the easiest thing in the world would be to just say let's get rid of it but that's what needs to be sorted out like oh we don't know where to release the audio what are you talking about if you have the audio straight after the game if not you're in the game you know Gary Neville is talking about what's going on when it's going on you know as you said that you could where you sit there is guys you could see the monitors in front of them because you sit by the commentary can see and you could see and near the things that annoy me more than anything and I do appreciate you could just get rid of it but just make it transparent stop having this little club that you think you know better than stop employing each referee on TV the man to cheat in my eyes as far as I'm concerned he's a match fixer as far as I'm concerned he's a match fixer for what he's done he's stopped a goal going in on purpose he's fixed a match make it transparent stop thinking you know more than everybody else because you don't when people talk about they should have football people because the people don't have a clue because they've never played the game and stop having this thing of where we know better the AI offside could sort out 99% of all of these things and they won't bring it in because it's like we know better than everyone else there's an arrogance about them I don't know if it's an arrogance you can't manipulate AI you can manipulate human can't you you can manipulate or an alarm of the Crayola pen which is what they do because that's ames the biggest indication that they still want some control because if it isn't what is the reason if I can give you something that's 99.9 but why would you then go it's alright I'll go with the one where it's only where these are all lines and it might be wrong, why would you if you definitely want to get the right results so things aren't incorrect things aren't incorrect you would go with every bit of technology go all in and get everything you can what I would say is just to Dave's point with the FL just listening to the women footballers basically begging for VAR in there they're absolutely begging for it and now again they might have worse officials they might have better officials I don't know but they're absolutely begging for it in the women's game because they think we sometimes forget and I know Dave can test them because he's watching the FL a lot more hopefully just a little bit rather than more next season but I know they just get on with it but if you're listening I suppose it's that thing of where the top women's super league is saying where the top flight league and the internationals are saying the same thing England a couple of weeks ago had a goal against them in the Netherlands and they're saying this is a joke this is amateur hour why are we being treated like amateurs why are officials so bad no of course there's human error we'll make mistakes I understand that there's always going to be human error but in the sense of the people there's no one wanted in the FL Dave I don't know I don't know what the bigger story is and listen from a personal point of view I'm just a bit of a luddite when it comes to technology generally I don't like change, never have done so I'm happy sticking with what I know maybe I'm not the best person to ask about the future technology and AI referring of I disagree Dave I think you're the best person to ask I do but there you go but you know that's what makes for a healthy debate and why so many millions of people listen to us of course well on healthy debate the Loch Ness monsters long neck and short head was spotted on August the 31st by Fiona Wade from Canich so Ned was like trying to tell us the other week that there's no Loch Ness monster in that it's basically what did he say he was I don't know like a seagull or something he come up with some terrible he wanted to fight it Fiona Wade from Canich North Scotland says the Loch Ness monsters visible for around 40 seconds on August 31st before the creature returned to the deep Loch she's a ness she's driving home after going for a walk with a dog she insists she's sure a 12 foot creature in the Loch Ness he wasn't big donk was he no he hadn't quite got there then he hadn't quite got there the 60 year old had been out taking a dog for a walk and was driving home and she noticed the 300 in the water the creature made an appearance for 40 seconds I couldn't get my head around it when I saw it something I couldn't explain and couldn't rationalise when I travelled to work in the 80s and 90s I had passed Loch Ness at least once a week it was my passion for me with the area national and scientific as that part of my job wasn't a submarine, I'm not a monster hunter I don't see what else it could have been it's the 7th recorded sighting this year of the creature well I was on Loch Ness on the 6th of August a few weeks before this particular sighting and I have to say I was curious about why I could get my money back from the Loch Ness tour that we went on because we saw no sign of the monster in any way shape or form but I've been there it's a big lock it's something like 20 miles long in fact we saw a fella who was swimming the whole thing he was swimming from one end to the other anyway he might be the person to ask because if anybody is going to come into contact with the monster I was going to say did you see him get out though no we saw him start but I haven't heard any reports of his demise so one can only assume that he successfully made it to Inverness which is on the top part of the lock him starting from the bottom where we were it is mad but what do you reckon there's 7 sightings I've been to Loch Ness and you do start Loch Ness because you think on that day when you're there I didn't need glasses, I was there in the 90s I don't need glasses I was there in the 90s I was there in the 90s they were way better than now I still don't need glasses now I still don't need glasses now it was in 1992 when I was there because it was your old 92 Thomas Brawlin scored against England while you were at Loch Ness I literally watched that game it wasn't me missus it was me missus at the time we were staying in a bed and breakfast who's missus was it at the time might soon to be a few years later we were staying in a B&B we were staying over Loch Ness no we weren't we were staying over Loch Lomond hang on, hang on, hang on that was a different girl that was a different girl but my mind is gone because I was looking at Loch Lomond no that weekend hang on, hang on let me clarify this went to Scotland for four days we were in Venice on the Saturday and then drove to Loch Lomond on the Sunday and then Sweden beat England through one in the night Gary Linnick has lost the parents for England Gary Linnick are off Alan Smithon however get back onto it are we having it or aren't we having it as the podcast chief technology expert exactly there has got to be there's got to be sophisticated technology that can literally sweep that lock from one end to the other and we'll see anything probably bigger than a crisp packet that exists in there so if it was there I believe we'd have found it one of it keeps moving round isn't the things that Linn lets though or whatever that go out so it might no ways be there it could just be like a seal or something massive ones could be couldn't it massive seal that's what you're going for seal or eel final answer I mean you can't poor Fiona's just come on a steady don't mind giant reptilian reptilian monsters I've got a good story for you go on yeah I'm excited fans were surprised to see an alligator up at the Philadelphia Phillies baseball match when its owner Joey Henney said he was there to meet the plays in a range visit we'll have to go another time because his emotional support alligator was the night entry into the baseball stadium so like a real mascot he's got here he's got an actual alligator that's his emotional support alligator but what happens though when you know he obviously sits wherever he sits right then the alligator sits next to him what about the person that then has got the season ticket next to the alligator I mean I don't know I don't know if that seats free or he had to buy two but he says he took Wally the alligator to the home of the Philadelphia Phillies ahead of the game against Pittsburgh Wallygator its considered a support animal and has tens of thousands of followers on social media where he's often seen being hugged or kissed speaking to the news Mr Henney said they had not gone to watch the match but were there due to meet the players but by the time they arrived the team were busy warming up it's no big deal they simply turned and went home we were going to go down below but they were practicing for the game and couldn't have visitors they're going to get hold of us before they go to the next game he claimed soon players will get to meet them there you go the club have stated guide dog service animals or service animals in training all other animals are prohibited so I think this is anti alligator yeah although I'm going to go to alligator here because I'm thinking that actually if we as a club installed alligators all around the perimeter of the pitch who could then be trained to buy ankles and everything of those players who aren't giving it 100% then maybe we wouldn't have the same kind of performances we saw on Saturday maybe we'd have a decent home it's a little boys going quicker though wouldn't it you know what I mean we wouldn't get and you wouldn't need all the stewards sat on the ground you know at the end when they're sort of facing the wrong way making sure that people don't run it you wouldn't need that if you had that alligator permit well if there's alligators there financially it would help the club as well because you wouldn't need to pay for stewards just the colour of alligators stick them in hives if you wanted to hives gator have you trained the alligator no no no I'm talking about Wally here back to Wally for a sec Wally Gator has he been trained as an emotional support has he just blaggan us that he likes his owner that he's just going to death roll him he says that he said that he first met Wally after his friend captured him in Florida so he's basically a hostage so Wally's a hostage and he said he dropped them off as a joke but he said but the joke's on him now the joke's on who the guy dropped them off he's dropped them off he's dropped them off on his mates and his mates kept them Wally won't ever bite and nobody knows why even his food must be dead and handed to that's a relief hand like that we've got so much in common with Wally he's got a lot of people's attention he's famous for hugs he's got a lot of attention he hugs and kisses people cos he's a fucking alligator I'm struggling here if I trained up with Godderson and there's an alligator with someone as his emotional support sat next to me I'm not going to enjoy the game care if he's friendly it is a worry isn't it cos he might turn at any moment will he take your mind off the game what you mean sort of just that the underlying threat of potential death or losing a limb be a new give a new meaning to limbs in the glad of three I personally don't think an alligator could kill you at the match could rip your leg off though but you're losing a limb limbs you've got another one cos their tactic is getting in the water and rolling Wally's got a tactic at home I mean what would you you know what would you feel if you're in the street end and there's a gator next to you I need an emotional support gator at the match absolutely maybe that's where we're going wrong there's not enough emotional support alligators at Godderson Bramley Mordow Everton New Stadium the water maybe that could be what's it doing though what is the benefit of them being in the water and the water's cold so they're going to die yeah but listen what what they could do though is that they could actually as part of the new stadium setup they could build like a special walk the plank kind of situation so therefore any well I was going to say players who actually score a player score rating of lower than five would then be required to walk the plank and you know sort of take their chance amongst maybe a dozen alligators what about with Wally and then you just say you don't know if he's going to him today might be the day that he bites I don't think we can do it with a threat we're definitely going to bite you I think the jeopardy is will he bite today or won't he will he or Wally that's a hard time Wally really that's a hard time show isn't it will he bite you now I can see Gray and White loving that just doing it Gray and White there with the mic absolutely loving that will he bite you we've got Chloe she's seven from Wally or if we just if we just have Wally in the ground you can play where's Wally the fella with the camera just yeah just like neck you look you're sitting there going ohhhh is it me it's on your shoulder where's Wally you should bite me that way Wally is I've got to finish with this one an unsettling encounter with a ghost who yelled Oi and held a stone and again I mean I don't know what's going on paranormal expert we're exploring an eerie cavern called Snips Cave or Benaine Cave which is 100 foot long by 20 foot wide and 34 high in places inside near Lendlfoot south west of Glasgow Scotland all going off a ghost allegedly chucked a stone a paranormal expert when they enter the cave where a hermit used to live it's not like just a hermit it's only Ferguson and Jacqueline Dick Jackie Dickson was spooked out by the scenario a hermit called Henry Ewing bloody hell there we go and Dallas Torbett AK Snips Scott lived there for three decades until he died in 1983 oh yeah okay fair play 871 he left the cave to only hunt rabbits and trade his ways we had heard this is Tony what Tony said we heard that people not the rabbit no we heard that people entered the cave with experienced paranormal activity so we went to check it out for ourselves we conducted some experiments where we held lone vigils in the caves to see if we could get different responses a stone was thrown at one point and we heard an elderly gentleman say ui we also heard what sounded like a child it's always a bleeding child which we captured on camera overall there were many things we cannot explain and we were quite shocked by the amount of activity we caught as we were not in the cave for very long I mean first of all why would you go to a place called bloody snips cave it sounds like a man's sinister as it is a fella shouting yeah a goat surely it's got better a better bloody vocabulary than just shouting and was Oi in Scottish Oi I don't know the answer to any of these things and why was there a child snips cave sounds like it tells josh sticks in town yeah there's always a little child normally a little girl in kind of ghostly horror movies always isn't it it's a standard thing so Dave you worry they just fell into that if we throw we'll say if they threw a stone and we'll say we heard the fella shouting Oi and if we throw a girl you know a child's voice in there that'll be almost like the rubber stamp is that like that royal seal of approval that people get you know to have the royal seal does that mean the queen seal or whatever does that mean the queen seal you know like it's not from Loch Ness it's not from Loch Ness that's what Fiona maybe saw is that what Fiona saw the queen seal rather than the Loch Ness monster I don't know I mean it just seems to it seems to have many of the constituent hearts to a classic ghost story for me and I don't know whether I believe ghosts or not I don't know whether I'm saying I believe them but I'm not saying that I necessarily do believe them what would make you convince Dave like if one walked in and sat on the couch behind you now would you be convinced yeah of course I think any viable sighting would make anybody convinced of the existence of ghosts but obviously most of us the vast majority of us I would say haven't had any paranormal experiences and therefore continue to be doubtful as to whether they exist or not this is coming from somebody who's done most haunted with a vet fielding I've been on the clang! what I mean Dave if you were to meet a ghost and it was alright you know it was friendly sure like Casper I don't know like cute like Casper but say like you know say I mean we've got time but like the story of a boy died and we've come like a friendly ghost that's not I don't find that appealing no but he was a boy and he was friendly so that was right but it's not good but if you just met one now like what kind of questions would you ask the ghost if you could communicate, if you could talk if you didn't say oh obviously or Donna Gales voice a young girls voice if you had three questions with the ghost what three questions do you think you'd ask it can you play four three three four three three yeah what's going on at good as some of the haunted beings what what do they realistically think about seven seven seven interesting and I'm still trying to think of a third one would there be nothing what would you like where have you come from something like that you'd want to know have you got any skeletons in your closet it's a good question I mean but I don't think that you'd be having any conversations at lunchtime which is the time at which we're recording this podcast it tends to be more of a night time thing doesn't it it is yeah and why are the nobets, why do they want to come out at bedtime cos they're dead so why can't they come out on the day because why would you it's prime time innit it's not fucking saturday night eight o'clock for sky it's not that many people knocking about on the day they're all in work but if you were in your house I mean why the ghost cos they make it scarier by coming out in the night don't they cos they're transparent that's not good in the day is it no cos they look better in the dark and also if they want to move around it's off peak travel as well yeah to be fair no congestion charges favourway between skates I just want to know more about their fielding but that's for another day that's one of Dave's clang stories we might cover this next week kung fu Carl was there as well the bloody hell's kung fu Carl when he's around kung fu Carl is a vet's husband does he do kung fu I guess yeah yeah yeah yeah save that for that halloween save that for that halloween fair flat even though we were having one but yeah we were going to get dressed up and everything why not if you could see Ned's face now you've literally like he's just won the lottery just the excitement I might wear a smile if I might have won a home game by it then so it'll be bang there you go right let's leave it there with that cliff anger of a vet fielding in kung fu Carl I mean honestly if you're not subscribing already then what's the matter with you what is that I mean if that doesn't pull you in not on else will will it not even a fella in a cave shop Carl sounds like something like a toy story doesn't he that's amazing listen we can't wait to hear the legend of kung fu Carl and he also cooks as he's doing kung fu kung fu Carl cooks I mean fair enough he might have been this spin and slam this is quality right Dave nice from mate we will catch up next week of course when hopefully Evan will have won a home game come on please where are you I'm in palace okay have you filled in a leaf I don't know whether he's filled in a blue form the blue q7 form it's in the diary you'll have to get Andy Bush and Martin it's going to be you and me we'll get a guest we'll get someone else in get someone dead famous to make me jealous do you want to get a vet fielding oh kung fu Carl he would be even better to be fair kung fu Carl would nail it wouldn't he big evertonian big evertonian apparently all you else is a big evertonian you could get on Amanda Holden Andy Peters he's in good nick Andy Peters he's in really good nick he's got muscles on muscles fair play to him fair play right Dave I know you're busy going to let it go and thanks to everyone who's listened subscribe give it a thumbs up give it a 5 star rating on Spotify and all those other good places we'll see you next week