 I'm a convert of faith and my granny when I became a Catholic, she said the only reason you want to be a Catholic is so you can be like the world. Party on Friday and get drunk, go to confession on Saturday and time to make it a mass on Sunday. Welcome my name is Jason Craig, this is the Till and Keep podcast. If you're unfamiliar with the podcast, this is where we talk about the intersection of things. I know that's what every podcast says it does, but we're talking specifically about the intersection of work, of leisure, of household, of festivity, of partying, of economics, reality, particularly catered towards leading a family, especially I can speak as a father. The issues of balancing, working and leisure time or quality time with my family is about as difficult as balancing eating food with fasting and indulgence and feasting. It's a very strange and difficult thing to bring these things into balance. One of the things that is particularly hard for us is that we as fathers must provide for our families. We have to work and actually work is good, it's not a problem, but another commandment which is interesting, we have the commandment from God to till and keep the garden. That means work, the garden, which is the till and then keep can also refer to, but we also want to work in a way that doesn't destroy. We want to just till the garden until it's dead, we want to till and keep it, we want to preserve it. So we're working it, but we're also maintaining its integrity and its nature because God created it and not us. We as fathers, we have to work with our families and for our families, but we also have to keep them and we have to work with ourselves, but we also have to keep ourselves. And one of the ways it seems that God has designed and commanded us is to also have leisure and festivity and worship and those things that are rejuvenating where we have the word recreation, but when true recreation is recreating, we're actually made fresh and anew and if we think about it, we are actually, although we are made to work on this earth, man has not made for work. That is what his hand is set to, but eventually that will all fade away into the work of the heavenly liturgy into the glory of heaven. So that's what we're moving towards and to be a Catholic is wonderful because we have impregnated in our customs and even in our law as Catholics to feast into half-celebrities. So we did an issue in Sorens Bay magazine on the idea of festivity. We talked about the difference between Catholic festivity and partying, for example. The world loves to party too. So what's the difference between a Catholic having festivity and just some frat boys having a party? In fact, I'm a convert to the faith and my granny when I became a Catholic, she said, the only reason you want to be a Catholic is so you can be like the world, party on Friday and get drunk, go to confession on Saturday in time to make it a mass on Sunday. That was her understanding of Catholicism, perhaps with some knowing experience, I can't say exactly, but that's actually false. The St. John Chrysostom said, festivity is joy and nothing else in that the Christian life is essentially joyful. And so that our festivity is actually just the bursting forth of a reality that ought to be in us all the time, which is the joy of living in God's presence with God's grace as God's sons. And then that joy sometimes cannot contain itself and it bursts forth into our festivity. And just in case you're not good at that naturally, the church actually commands through her sublimities and her feast days. I mean, if we think of holy days of obligation, we like to think of it only in law, like what we have to do. Whereas what the church is really saying is, no, you actually get an extra party day or festivity day in the year because to to round that out, partying is an act of despair. Partying is a dulling of the senses, a retreating from the world as the world is essentially grudgery and difficulty. Therefore, you have to party to sort of balance it all out, which is why the world says work hard and clay hard, work hard, party hard where you live for Friday night, because Monday through Friday afternoon are so difficult and so much drudgery that you have to just blow off all that steam on Friday night. Catholics are the opposite. We live from Sunday, the festivity and the joy of Sunday is our life. And we burst into the world from that festivity. So in this episode, I have a good friend of mine, Terry Ruemore. You might you'll you'll notice if you're a reader of Sword and Spade Magazine, his brother, Charlie, who also has a desk next to him. If you can see the webcam on the they have a desk in there. They're very different brothers that have to sit next to one another day in and day out and work out whatever is going on, not only in life, but especially in their business, because they are they own a mechanic shop in downtown Birmingham. I have to set the stage for this a little bit. They just moved into a new shop. The old shop occupied like half of a small city block and was this like as far as America goes, it was like working within the ruins of ancient Rome. It's ancient America with just old concrete and pillars of steel and grease and starters and alternators stacked up on shelves. And they told me there was some sort of organization to it. It was hard to believe, but it seemed to run well. They've recently moved into a much bigger shop and basically a bigger city block. And the building is fascinating. It goes back to World War Two, World War One, even cooler. And I mean, the if anyone has worked in concrete, you know, average concrete slab today is about four inches with some steel in it. If it's just an average slab, like a driveway or being driven on it. They have suspended concrete between the floors. That's like, I don't know, like 18 inches thick or it's crazy. So I brought Terry in because he wrote an article about the solemnities and owning a Catholic business. And I'll let him tell you more of that. But as you guys know, what Till and Keep were very often talking to homesteaders and craftsmen, but generally I know these two brothers to be, I like to say, Charlie's the best agrarian I know, even though he's, you know, in a greasy mechanic shop with the mechanical tinkering that Tolkien probably was horrified by, but the integration of work and family and community and economy has been amazing to witness these two as faithful Catholic brothers and running a small family business working out the reality of living the faith. These are two guys that don't sit around complaining on Twitter about things. They're actually working out their salvation and fear and trembling. I have felt the fear and trembling being in their shop. So, Terry, you wrote an article. Well, welcome, first of all, I want to ask you, you wrote an article on solemnities and you actually close your downtown Birmingham deep south with Protestants working at your shop, Protestants as customers. You, I believe the first one you closed for, you and your brother decided to close for a solemnity to marry and informed everyone about that. But before you tell me about the details, tell me why and how it came about that you finally made the decisions to start, the decision to start closing for Catholic solemnities as Catholic business owners. Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Jason. So actually it was born out of an idea, an article written by my pastor, Father Brian Jaribic of the Cathedral in downtown Birmingham. And he had written something. I don't recall where it was, but we were just inspired. My brother, I read his writing about the significance of what it means to celebrate Catholic feast days and how we largely have lost that tradition in, you know, in our Catholic church across the world, really. We, as Catholics, particularly the more traditional ones will gravitate towards the fasting side of living a Catholic life. And we don't have a problem with some of that. We certainly try to participate in that, but we uniquely don't take the feasting very seriously and particularly as it relates to spending time appropriately with our families and friends and celebrating those high church feast days. And so we were inspired to in challenge, I would say, really, while it was not directly written to us, we took it upon us to see it as a personal challenge from our pastor. And so we sat around and we had already we were already taking the traditional feast days that you would always take, you know, Christmas, Easter, even we had introduced years prior to that article celebrating in more of a solemn way, Good Friday. And so we had taken that day off. But that was easier to justify because that was a day of of a very deep recollection and prayer. Yeah, people are familiar with those. Sure. So before. Hold on, Terry, before you go into like when you went from sort of the standards to the nerdy Catholic days, right? The ones that people don't know about in the world. You what's fascinating. This is what you grew up in a serious Catholic family. And so you're you're you're trying to take your face seriously, most of your life right here and there. You're what what why don't we have feasts? I mean, in your experience, why are we what your mechanics? Like your fourth generation? Why? Why was this never an issue? Do you think? Well, sure. I mean, I think largely Catholics have bought into capitalism and, you know, as a business owner, you're driven by the bottom line, or at least that's that's what been instilled in you. And the idea of success and the idea of numbers and balance sheets and income statements and, you know, working days are necessary to meet those goals. And so, you know, being taught how to run a good efficient business does not incorporate non-traditional off days. So we accept the weekends as off days, or at least largely. But when it comes to these religious feast days, there we were taught they were insignificant. I mean, it's a great lack in the church truthfully. And it took a bold priest to step up and reclaim that tradition in our church. But unfortunately, largely in our in our Catholic faith, the lie has been sold or bought, however you want to see it. Even our Catholic entities, the Catholic schools and the Catholic churches don't often close on these feast days and make their employees work on these days. So it truly is a bold move to step outside, even though they have the teaching. And as you said, the command to celebrate these feast days, they themselves don't always do it. And so when you don't have the example in front of you, then you can just buy the lie. And that's what we did for years. But we finally stepped out and did something a little more bold. Yeah. So if I recall, what the reason I think it's also so fast or your story is inspiring to me, like when I talk about when people ask, well, what is what does Sword and Spade Magazine have? I actually refer back to this article as one of the standards of the spirit of what we're what's there, which is what does it look like to stop talking about the faith on the Internet and start doing it? I know that sounds cliche. Like, oh, you got to put it into action. But in this instance, very serious because it has a cost. It has it has something that actually hurts. And Joseph Peeper, great Catholic author, philosopher, who wrote a book called Intune with the World, a Theory of Festivity. He talks about the various reasons people are incapable of feasting. And one of them is that they're unwilling to make the sacrifice. So you were saying, you know, we bought the line. You say capitalism, which is, you know, basically the bottom line is all that matters. And I think of I'm just coming off a Christmas night. So of course, we watched with great salinity, the Muppet Scrooge movie when Fuzzy Wig or whoever comes out and he's throwing this giant party. And the young Scrooge says, I've gone over the numbers that you can't have a party like this, you know, basically and be profitable. And he goes, it's Christmas. So that what Peeper's point was in the Muppets was that you cannot feast if you're not willing to put something on altar. All right. So you guys did this. But one of the reasons I love it is you did it in Birmingham on and I went and looked it up because you were disagreeing with me because it's been a while since you wrote it, but I was right. Again, Terry, that it was for the assumption. So not only did you close on not Easter or Christmas, which everyone already, you know, is willing to do or Good Friday, I should say. But you close on a day where we as Catholics believe Mary was assumed in the heaven body and soul, you know, in her immaculate you know, flesh and spirit. So basically this very not Protestant friendly feast and you told your so that that's where I want you to pick it up. So you got this article and you decided to close on the assumption. So before you close, though, I mean, what was the discussion in the decision process with you and Charlie, your brother? Well, it was a challenge. I mean, it was a challenge to each other to put put our old thought processes behind us and actually dig into what it means to be Catholic and to to be to be trusting that God would not be outdone in generosity and that if we give him or his mother the proper honor due of such a solemnity that he's going to bless our business. And, you know, we didn't have any numbers to back that, but but we were going to trust and we were called to trust in the providence of God, our father. And so we did. And, you know, I remember first explaining that to our employees. Of course, largely our employees are just happy to have a day off like that. You know, they don't they didn't internalize what that actually meant. But we did encourage them to try to make that day somewhat prayerful, if possible, if they could find a way to do that. And then we had this messaging system that we use when people would call that we recorded the message, you know. And we said the words of why and not knowing what that was going to do. The next day, which was wait, hold on. Hold on before we get to the next day, let me get this straight. So you when you now you're saying, yeah, we just didn't we trust it. But I've seen your desk and I've seen Charlie's desk. He's the accountant, right? A little more analytical, if you will, and his ways. I'm sure he did some math. This is going to cost us something. Did you do? You know, I don't I don't think so. Because like I said, we had already bought into the idea of giving God the right reference. We just weren't ready to expand it to all these other feast days. I mean, we had already kind of been outside of the box of our father and grandfather and taken a good Friday. And, you know, we knew that that oftentimes spurred a good conversation come Easter Monday with customers. So we were we were interested to see what introducing some of these new concepts, these new Catholic feast days into a largely Protestant culture in Birmingham was going to do. So we're you're you're next. But then you also said you put a recording on the answering machine. Is that what you said? We did. Are we going to answer the machine? Yeah. And did you say? Yeah, we I mean, you we explained it. In fact, I have a whole system now we've updated that has every feast day and the explanation of the feast day on the recording. And it's funny because I have my my Protestant secretary is a women's voice, which is a much more pleasant voice than mine. Actually doing the recording and some of the feast days she couldn't even say like she couldn't figure out immaculate conception. We had to record it multiple times because the immaculate conception was such a foreign concept to her. And it's funny to hear the the message. But yeah, I mean, it wasn't just we're taking off or but it was why it was the why. And it's another way for us to to teach, right? So we so we did that. We put this message out there. We celebrated the feast day appropriately. We come back to work and immediately it starts a conversation with customers who wondered why we were off on a random Tuesday. I don't even remember what day it was. But and and just it was a fascinating study on how to have these conversations introducing these concepts. And what was even more fascinating is that there were several fallen away Catholics who knew or had some memory of the feast day and, you know, growing up, but that had largely abandoned that feast day or the celebration of it in their own lives. And it started a conversation of, you know, perhaps bringing them back into the truth of the faith, which was, again, another way God uses that sacrifice, but also that feast. So it was it was excellent. We really, really knew after that very first one that this is what God wanted for our business. So the when I will tell me that you had this message machine going that for today, we're taking off for the assumption when our lady was, you know, so whatever that was, maybe we get a hold of those or something. And then so your customers did come. And you do you have any specific exam? I mean, were they just asking, what were you doing? Who's Mary? You know, what's the immaculate conniption? Absolutely. So they I mean, they show up and, you know, they bring their starter all matter and they put this on the counter. And then one of the first questions out of their mouth is what were y'all all for the assumption? What is that? And, you know, before we even make the sale, we're already engaged in a conversation. And if nothing other than to just educate these men, it was just it was it really gave us some excitement and joy to be able to share a part of our faith that we wouldn't have normally talked about in front of a capitalist counter. I mean, to be frank with you, not only that, I think the nature. I mean, one of the reasons like that Charlie is that is the co-editor with sword and spade, right, is because he's a mechanic. Now, I say, I know he's not always turning the wrenches. He's behind the scenes, too. But of course, last time I visited, he pretended to be working on a car when I walked in. He wasn't I didn't believe him. It was I didn't believe. But it's one thing I think when you have, I don't know, a big company that might be called something like a firm, right? Or where you're sort of navigating and negotiating details, mostly in ideas and agendas and spreadsheets and systems. And I'm not at all denigrating that per se, but I am that you guys are grounded in the visceral needs. And I've worked for mechanics. I've worked for, you know, used car lots and stuff. And like when they want a starter, they want it now. So that's why your story is also different, because it's that that visceral need of seeing a greasy, you know, part or an alternator starter slapped down on your desk and then someone saying, what's the assumption? Is there that? I mean, that is that that's the image of Catholicism of Catholicism really affecting the the the what Wendell Berry calls the low arts of man, which is not low brow, but just the fundamental thing that a lot of people might even take for granted. I'm just just as a comment that those guys being taken off is noticed when somebody takes off a part of a car, goes down to the shop where they know they have starters on a Tuesday and you're not open for the assumption that's going to be a shock to the system. That's really strange. It was, but nobody got nobody got angry. Yeah. I mean, nobody nobody was angry. Everyone was curious. They created a curiosity, and I'm sure while it might have had some bottom line effect to our financial well being, it also impacted their lives, as you're as you're saying. But, you know, I have to believe that God blessed all of that. And I know he has because we've continued this tradition. We've expanded it. We actually are sad when feast days are on a Saturday or a Sunday when we don't have the opportunity to take those days out all from work. It makes our work that much more special and appreciative because it's such a gift. I mean, work has become a gift. Now we we have a better perspective of why we work as Catholic men and what the value of work is in our Catholic lives. And it just marries. It marries with these feast days in such a unique way, not only in impacting us and our families, but in impacting our employees. They look forward to it. They they've actually checked in, you know, when we've taken some days that maybe they're not used to taking, they'll do some research to find out what it is, even if they're Protestant, why why they're taking off. I've had a couple of my employees tell me, you know, that they actually said some special prayers that day, just maybe in reverence to the fact that their two bosses let them off that day. Who knows? But I mean, it does have impact. God multiplies that blessing in such a way that that we have truly felt it. I can't see ever going back. It seems to reconcile the tension, you know, when you know that, you know, feasting is not indulging and offering as a sacrifice of work solves the tension of am I just living my life between, you know, fasting and eating that the sacrifice of it with the work. It really does reintegrate these things. It just it sort of solves that problem. It's like, you know, like, all right, it's lent. You know, I'm giving up whatever I'm fasting. And like, what do I do on Sunday? And do I indulge? Of course you don't indulge. But when you're actually doing when you're actually making a sacrifice by feasting, so we don't tend to think of feasting as a sacrifice. You keep using the word feast, but we're actually we're talking specifically about solemnity. So days we are commanded in law and liturgy to take off and to not do servile work. Sometimes it can it can think, well, does that just mean I need to indulge for a day? Does that make it a proper feast? But you've actually what you've united with your with your shop is uniting the feast with the sacrifice, right? And so I'm I'm often coming from the perspective of a farmer. And there's a, you know, a lot of times there's this silly tension that people discuss between, you know, whether or not the mass is a feast or a sacrifice and every farmer knows, well, you know, you don't get the feast without something dying first. So it's always both. And on the Catholic table, the Catholic feasting table, it is always or we lose a sense of this, but in our modern world, but it ought to always be both a sacrifice and a feast because you can't have one without the other. And sometimes our indulgence is literally it's like it's like trying to have a feast without sacrifice, which is probably the definition of indulgence. Whereas you guys with your shop, it makes the the feasting connected to the sacrifice of shop makes it real. Let me flesh that out just a little bit. But it's not like on that day of feasting that we just sleep late and we cook out and we watch TV and we play video games. That's my next question. What would you do? What'd you do? We actually had a very good friend of ours who had done it before us. Scott Diamond, he's a fraternist brother of mine. And he he actually challenged us. He was he took off from his family, but he found himself very alone because there weren't many businesses doing that. And so, you know, he had kind of challenged us and combined that with with the father, Jarvis Push, we then put out this challenge to other men to do the same. And that first year was met with a little bit of hesitation, you know, much smaller crowd. We had a lot of women gathering at our at our event. We we we had a specific event. We went to Mass, of course, on the on that solemnity and the obligation of that. But then we wanted to be intentional by getting together as a community of families all with the common goal of celebrating that proper solemnity. And, you know, it's grown certainly over the years. More and more men and women have have been intentional about it. But that first that first feast day was lonely. But we had to we had to understand that this was going to be a process. It was going to be a rethinking of things. And so what we did was we gathered, we went to Mass. And then we had a big outdoor celebration where we prayed the rosary and we we set up a tent with with various, you know, images of our lady and properly revered her. Of course, we feasted, we celebrated, kids got together. And then we just continue to grow that and challenge the men to schedule it. It's not a decision that you can make the week of. I mean, it is literally something you have to look at your calendar and be intentional about, look ahead and win the feast days are put them on your calendar. If you are in a business where you need to let your customer base know ahead of time, so be it, let your employees know ahead of time, but make enter the year. Enter the year with the intention of taking these days so that you can then begin to prepare the community around you, whether it's your customers, employees or just other Catholic businesses that you want to feast with. But be intentional about it from the beginning of the year. And that's what we started to do. Yeah, I am we're in the midst right now. So, you know, unlike you, I'm a convert. And I'm definitely I'm constantly trying to learn kind of re you said, learn how to think again. I mean, this is part of the St. Paul's in Romans 12, that the renewal of your mind is learning how to feast. And it's glorious because if there was a tendency in my younger years, right, you tend towards indulgence, right? Of the part there's, you know, the party scene of these cliche movies with college students and high schoolers and 30 year olds dressed as high schoolers for for the movie. So you have indulgence in your younger years. And then in your older years, you can sort of. I don't think you lose indulgence. It just hides itself away in different ways, but you can become overworking. And all of that, though, as I described, is just sort of internal, just in my mind, just me trying to work things out. But immediately there comes something comes alive when you realize, oh, you're not just like you're supposed to, you know, not work on salinities. You're also supposed to be with people. I mean, feasting, we've we've almost described it until you just told that story this whole time. We're describing this like essentially internal battle. But feasting also pulls you out of yourself, out of your head, out of the day to day, out of the grind, you offer the sacrifice. And then at that sacrifice, like at the mass, you look around and go, oh, there's other people here, right? I mean, that's we're not going to make it to heaven alone. We're we're right now, you know, this, I don't know if you're supposed to say this on podcasts, we're pre-recording this. I'm actually coming up on twelfth night, so the twelfth night of Christmas. And we've never done it. But this year, you know, we're we're trying to we're bringing people in that and none of us have done twelfth night. I mean, it's not in our cold. We have a couple of people from Louisiana and they're, you know, the king cakes before epiphany and all that. But, you know, after known on on Friday, it will be epiphany. And we'll start that feast with a twelfth night of Christmas. And it's this this night that bridges, you know, Christmas tide. And then epiphany tide and they say, it is beautiful. And we're in my family, you know, today, you speaking of prep preparing, you know, they're they're starting to make the cookies for this event. And I've ordered I have. A great neighbor who keeps a whole bunch of horses. And he's like he's from Mexico. He's just awesome guy, super rough around the edges, lots of cursing. And it's where he introduces my kids to all sorts of new words when we go over there. But, you know, we get to be in control of the introduction somewhat. But he's got I've ordered him a king costume and he's going to come riding up with some jingle bells on a horse as a king and give out some presents for a twelfth night. And for for me and our kids, what's been amazing for this this constant desire with Christmas to sort of purify the gift giving and how difficult it can be when you when you're young and indulgent and just carrying, you know, what am I getting for Christmas? I mean, you know, it doesn't matter. I have this, you know, we're doing Catholic podcasts or my kids are like, what is Christmas about? Presents, you know, but this twelfth night is curative because we're. Hominating the joys of Christmas where it's like that the heights of it is now not just in the silence of our home is as beautiful as those moments are, but also when it bursts forth into our community. So we have, you know, some new Catholic neighbors, some older Catholic neighbors and we're going to get and then we have a non-Catholic dressing up as one of the kings. He's going to ride up on a horse with bells and give out presents. And anyway, all of that, for for me, it's it's it's purifying and correcting for me. So this is not just some mental exercise or some meme I'm sharing or but this very until our feasting, not only until we make the sacrifice of well, like what you're describing, like this real economic. I mean, you pay, right? Let me let me clarify one thing. You're paying these are days off. You're paying your. Oh yeah, these are paid. These are paid. Absolutely. Absolutely. So not only are you making the sacrifice of not having business on that day, you are actively throughout the whole day while you're feasting, you are losing money, not just potential money, but actually paying out sacrifice, put it up on the altar. And that's great. But I think the the the beauty of the story is what you're describing there of bringing once the community of families begins feasting together. I think that until that occurs, the sacrifice and then the communal act, you know, the solemnity and the feast actually occurs. That's sort of this culminating reality, which is. I think that that's where we're headed. I want to say one thing I think is important for people to understand. And this is something that I won't say that I entered into this fully understanding this. But I think as I've we've begun to do this as a community, it's it's probably been the opposite, which is I've come to understand this through this. But, you know, we celebrate anniversaries and birthdays and we celebrate graduation days and other big events in the lives of people that we love. And we and we're intentional about celebrating those days. And we and we, you know, feast in a secular way those days. We celebrate with birthday cakes and all the things that come with that fully now, fully understanding relationally my identity as a son of God, which then makes me related to Christ, my brother and Mary, my mother. Why are we as Catholics not celebrating these significant days like we celebrate the secular ones from the biological loved ones that we can identify with. So understanding who we are as sons and daughters of a God and a father who love us make it that much easier to celebrate these great and significant solemnities. And if you can begin to understand your actual identity, it provides real context and a real connection to why we would want to celebrate these days, despite the potential economic loss. And that is significant. And so getting people in the community to see that relationship is just makes it much more easier for them to want to celebrate these days in a significant way. And that's the messaging at the end of the day. We are not just cogs in a wheel in an economic wheel, even though that's what the world tells us we are, and that's often how we're judged. The reality is we have a relationship with a God who loves us, a mother who loves us, the church triumphant who gone before us. We must celebrate and recognize those days in a significant and impactful way. And that has been probably the greatest revelation. Yeah, you asked the question and the beautiful, what I'll say, ending monologue there is why don't we do it? Because we don't love. I mean, we don't love them. And this has to do with and I'd like to wrap up with this. When we hear the phrase Holy Day of Obligation, it's similar. So we in English, especially that's usage in the United States, when we hear the word law, we think of it because of our very liberty loving tendencies. We think of it in terms of that something you can't do, something that's restricting, something that's burdensome in that, you know, for all intents and purposes, the less, the better. Now, there's, we thought there's truth in that, but the truth actually is the more in ancient languages and certainly in Catholic thought in the Catholic heart and mind. An obligation, a law is not a restriction, but it's an ordering. It's to put or it's the way that when a family makes a rule in their home so that the family is ordered, it's not just so that people's liberty is restricted to an acceptable extent so that we can therefore function in a necessarily corporate, you know, entity. That's just that's not it. When you're as a father, when you make a rule, you're ordering your home, you know, we pray first before meals, we clean up after meals, you're bringing order to the world. And what you describe why don't we do it is because one, we think of these things only in the negative law sense, not in the ordering sense, because we don't love. So what God is wanting to do, wanting to do in our lives is to order us towards the very nature of creation itself in his own life, in our relationship with him as sons, which is the ordering of love. And to do that, the good news is we're going to get more days off of work. So, Terry, thank you. That that is excellent. I want to, you know, I've had the opportunity for years to make better use of solemnities and I haven't. And while I was happy to publish your article as a personal challenge to me and to all the readers. So thank you all you guys for listening to Till and keep. I'm sure we'll get Terry back on here another time to hear how they're working out the the grease trap of Southern armature in Birmingham, Alabama. Terry, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Absolutely. Jason, thank you and God bless. This episode of Till and Keep has been brought to you by 10 for Ternus and Sword and Spade. Till and Keep is a podcast that shows how the primordial command from God to Adam to till and keep the garden applies, whether you toil on a farm or in a concrete jungle. Visit till and keep podcast dot com to subscribe and follow the show and use coupon code till 25 to get 25% off your next order at tan books dot com.