 Okay, it's Wednesday. I'm Jay Feindell. This is Think Tech. Why should you be surprised? Okay, and we have Community Matters right now with Gigi Davidson. And she is the center person of Ohana Computer, Computer with a K. Hi, Gigi. Aloha. How are you today? Good. I'm just as good as I was, you know, years ago when you and I had a show before. Me too. There's two shows we had before. You're a special person in the Think Tech family. Thank you. So Ohana Computer is, for years and years, it's been finding, sometimes rehabilitating and distributing computers to disadvantaged communities in Hawaii. This is a real mitzvah. And, you know, up to this point, we've been very happy that you've done that. And did I misstate anything there? Yes. Actually, we haven't really, we've found a nominal amount of computers and distributed them. That's not our primary focus. Our primary focus is teaching computer application skills within the community, which often lacks computers. So we try and help them look for them. What kind of skills? Basic computer application skills, word processing, desktop publishing, spreadsheets, multimedia, database. What we find is that most children today, they're very good at texting and playing games and manipulating the internet. But that's very different than using the computer appropriately to do their schoolwork. Yeah. So what makes, what makes you qualified to do this? Well, we've been doing this for 20 years. So we've developed a curriculum that's been updated several times and primarily focusing on Microsoft Office. And before this COVID pandemic started, we already had the idea that the next phase for us would be to create an online version of our curriculum. And we wrote a grant and we got funded in April after the pandemic hit, so it became much more relevant. So that's what we're working on, full tilt boogie right now. That's, that's a term we use here at Think Tech very often, full tilt boogie. We must be related to something. Anyway, Gigi, so COVID has changed things. And indeed, one of the things that strikes me, I mean, you're dealing with the underprivileged communities that disadvantaged low income communities. And so you've probably seen the digital divide. In fact, the digital divide sounds like it's right in the middle of Ohana computer. That's what it's about. And now COVID comes along and COVID, see if you agree with me on this, COVID accentuates, it aggravates, exacerbates the digital divide. Because, you know, because in the digital, in COVID time, we are more dependent than we were before. We, meaning all of us, are more dependent on computers. And so, you know, if I have a computer, I'm happy to have a computer, then I'm able to spend my time productively and so forth. But if I don't have a computer, I'm not able to do that. And I lose ground. And that's part of this is part of going back to school. It's going back, you know, it's part of the going back to school issue that people are talking about all over the country, about whether a parent wants a child to go back or not go back. And you know, they, I think this is a euphemistic thing about it. They say, you know, I want my kid to go back to school, but built into that embedded into that is the kid at school has a computer at home. He may not have a computer, or he may not have the people like you who will teach them how to use the computer and therefore narrow the digital divide. So what are your thoughts about that whole issue? How right am I? How wrong am I? Well, I think you're pretty right. I think the head of the DOE said that 75% have computers. So computers are a problem and so is connectivity a problem. Actually it's throwing the educational system into a tailspin because in March they were just thrust into having to go online and they were ill prepared to do it at that time. And they still actually have a long way to go. They're focusing on trying to get computers to families that don't have them and connectivity. And I think the community is helping with that. But I had a thought today that, okay, the community can help with that, but we probably need to do some parent training on, okay, how do you monitor your child? How do you build in safety? How do they log in? How do you pay attention to what they're doing? How do you keep them productive? Likewise, so, you know, I feel like we're working with a couple of schools and it's still evolving. It's really hard to make significant progress because they're all worried about what are they going to do? How are they going to do it? They need computers, they know that, but has it been well thought out and planned out and have they had an appropriate time to do so? I don't think so. And you can't just put the Band-Aid approach, but that's what's going to happen for right now. Yeah, okay, but what's the goal? What's the vision? How do you see this unfolding in the optimal way, Gigi? Well, I think that the world is going towards more distance learning. Who knows how long this pandemic is going to be around. And I think we have to be prepared to for it. Personally, if I had a young child, I don't think I'd want them to be in school right now. I don't feel like it's really safe. And then they bring it home and then it gets spread to the family. I don't know. But I guess every parent has a different take. And of course parents have to go to work. So there's lots of problems that come into play that have never, nobody's ever had to address before. So it's a big systemic problem, I think. But I do feel like people need to be prepared to go towards more distant learning. And that's the way of the future anyway. So we shouldn't be fighting it. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be in the classroom. That's the ideal situation. But as an alternative, and maybe there's a mix of both that can occur. Well, you know, Zoom has arrived. We are in the Zoom world now. And one of the things that sticks with me to respond to your point is that there's a lot of colleges in the country that are shutting down. And education, higher education is changing. There's as long as COVID lasts, they really don't want those kids there. And I know that they need the money. They need the tuition. And they're losing the Chinese students because Chinese students are leaving already. Huge source of revenue. So colleges are in trouble. Education hasn't traditionally been quick to change, which is kind of contrary to what it should be. So it's really kind of forcing the issue. But I think there's kind of a lot of band-aid approaches. I think it needs to be well thought out and well planned. And it takes time to do that correctly. But in the meantime, in the meantime, things will move to online learning and it'll get better. Like when our curriculum is done, it's going to be very interactive. And it's going to be so the teacher can lead it online with the kids and or maybe used as a standalone unit in case of need. But what's very important for kids is they're very impulsive. Their attention span is a nanosecond. So it has to be very interactive or they're not going to do it. They're just going to skip it. And someone has to monitor them. There's always going to be a need for a classroom teacher, whether it's through Zoom or in the classroom. Because otherwise, you're just giving them free rein to goof around. Well, let's talk about this other thing that came out in the paper. Or maybe I saw it on television. The tube blend, it seems like to me these days. It was an entrepreneur, a very innovative entrepreneur who sends around teachers to teach in small groups. And so the teacher comes to your house, sort of like the violin teacher, you know, or the piano teacher comes to your house. And maybe you have a bunch of kids in the same family. Maybe you have a bunch of kids from the immediate vicinity. And they chip in and pay this person. And this person teaches them at home. And that's better, I suppose, in terms of COVID. And you remember that photograph of all those hundreds of kids in a hallway? That was just perfect to make the point. But this would have masks. This would have a little distance. And this would have somebody to watch those kids so they don't go off the side. What do you think of that idea? Has that got traction? I think it's definitely viable. I have a teacher who's getting lots of requests from her friends that have children. And she said, her advice is, you know, you got to sit down, you got to make a plan, you got to do this, this, this and much every week. Otherwise, you're going to make no progress. And she's like, they just want to hire me to do it, you know, for them. So I think there's some validity. And I guess you would call it sort of a small group of homeschooled people with teachers. You know, at the moment, that would certainly be valid. The problem with that, and the article mentioned it, is that it further accentuates the digital divide. Not every parent can afford to chip in for that person. And so what you have is the disadvantaged kids. I mean, your community, they won't have that choice. And if you have some money, you'll have that choice. And now months go by or even semesters or years go by, and there's a real divide between the kids who have that benefit and the ones who don't. That troubles me. That is very troublesome. And like I also thought has occurred to me, I was like, why are we like in a rush? Why shouldn't we be safe? And in the scope of a child's life, say we push back education a little bit in the long run, what difference is it really going to make if you push it back six months or a year and do it correctly? Granted, it puts a hardship on parents because they have to work. But if they get their kid home with COVID, they can't go to work anyway. I agree with you 100,000%. That's one of those elephant in the room thoughts where we should have thought of that before. So everybody says, oh, yeah, this will all be fixed in six months or a year. So we can wait six months or a year. Why expose your kid to the disease? And why have your kid come home and expose you to the disease? And why have the whole school system exposed to the disease? And every parent and everybody associated with every kid exposed to the disease, that's what you get out of the White House these days. That's what you get. That's not thought out. Not a good idea. Your point is really well taken, Gigi. I really appreciate that. But what about the notion of having, I'm just thinking, because I found in our conversations that I can do this with you. I can have a kind of free flow, free association. So what about having these kids on Zoom and having a teacher join them by Zoom? I mean, it's actually a classroom. That's how it's going to have to happen right now. And that's how the distance learning is going to transpire. And there's other platforms. There's Zoom or Google Hangouts. And there's many that do the same sort of thing. So the teacher plays a double role in the model I'm thinking about. One is the teacher teaches. And she or he can see all the people, all the people in the class right there. Like you and I can see on Zoom now in the gallery view. But the teacher does more than teach. The teacher watches. The teacher says, Jimmy, why aren't you concentrating? Come on, Jimmy. You're not paying attention. Yeah. You're not paying attention. And you can see it. Or Jimmy takes a walk and the teacher says, wait a minute, Jimmy. This time is dedicated to our class. Don't take a walk. Now, I mean, I think that would work at a certain age. You're going to be more familiar with the concentration capabilities of kids at certain ages. But at a certain age, I think the teacher could handle that, especially if the parent now who's at work or something, the parent says to Jimmy, you better listen. If you don't listen, I'm going to hear about it. I'm going to get you. So you better listen to the teacher. And the teacher tells you the teacher is speaking for me as if I were here. So my question is, how young can that go? When does that start being meaningful in terms of most kids? I would say third grade and up should be able to do that pretty easily. I think it's a little bit harder with the younger guys. But if you make it fun and engaging, it could even happen with them. There definitely has to be elements of fun in there. It has to be very kid friendly. Yeah. I think it could definitely happen. And the other thing is there is software. It would be nice to be able to see where they're sitting and their screens of their computer and each individual one so you could really be on them. But the schools don't all have that. And then the problem with equity of some people think that you have connectivity, but they think like, well, if I have it on my phone, I have it at home. Well, that's not necessarily true. So connectivity is a big issue for their low income population. And, you know, and you can't do it all on iPads. You need a more sophisticated system than that. Some of it you can do. But, you know, so what we found with a school in Waimanala that we work with is, you know, some of the parents thought, well, if they can get it on their phone, that's good enough. You can't do learning on a phone for a kid. You know, the Department of Education is not spending a lot of money right now, because they're not in operation. I know they have fixed costs and they got to take care of the teachers and the teacher union. But suppose they took some of that money, spare money, and they bought every kid, including especially disadvantaged kids, a serviceable computer. You know, buy it in bulk, it's cheaper and all that. I feel like I think I heard that there was like 114,000 school-aged children on Oahu and 75% of them already have computers. So you're only talking about having to buy computers for 25%, which seems like it should be doable. Yeah. So, I mean, there's got to be money for this because we're saving money in other areas of education. And whether we are or not, there's got to be money for this because this is, you know, if you believe it's important that these kids get educated, then you will buy them a computer and you narrow the gap, the digital divide. One of the problems too is that it has to be kid-friendly and kids dirty because kids drop home and you have to have a certain amount of replacement and they're hard on them. So, it's also a matter of teaching them to be respectful of that. And the safety, there's a lot of safety protocols that need to be drummed into them and probably their parents, you know. I mean like creepy things. Yeah, yeah. Like what do you say over the internet? What do you say on your computer? Do you give out your name, safety first? You know, what's appropriate to do and not do? A lot of parents could use that training too. Yeah, they could. Definitely. So if I gave you a group of kids who was, you know, virtual on Zoom, assume they have, excuse me, they have computers and computers haven't been broken yet. What would you teach them? Would you give them a whole curriculum? Would you try to, you know, duplicate the curriculum in the schools? Or would you focus on certain things instead? And if I gave you these kids for, I don't know, it wouldn't be a whole school day, say four hours a day, four hours a day. What would you focus on? Well, my focus is on, and I think it's very important to teach them to become solid computer users where they use the computer as a tool to enhance their productivity and creativity and efficiency. That would definitely be in there. It wouldn't have to be in there every day. Once a week would be probably good enough to do that. I would definitely be, you know, they have to do math. They have to do science. They have to do reading. But, you know, that's not my forte. So I can't speak to how many hours you would do of each of those a day. But they would definitely have to be in there. You'd be one course among many. Yeah. Somebody else would be developing a substantive content. Exactly. Like the school teacher could teach what they're supposed to be teaching, you know, a couple hours a day and have certain projects that they have to do, that the kids have to do. And the ones that I think are working really hard are the school teachers because they've been forced to create things online and to do things differently. And they're maybe not very prepared to do that to begin with, but they're just kind of having to put in the extra effort to see if it works. And then they're also having to create paper versions of the same thing for those that don't have computers at home. Oh, what a waste. That is a duplication of effort. What about you teaching those teachers? Don't they need to be taught? Because some of them are going to, some of them, I don't want to tell you everything you don't know, but some of them are going to resist the whole thing. They definitely are. And we've actually, we're in the process, we're almost done creating a guide for teachers for distance learning, which we're actually just going to give them because we think that that's the right thing to do. And because they don't know the right acronyms, there's different LMS learning management systems, they're different chat things, there's different kinds of system. And nobody's given them the scope of what the variety is or the comparison. And they need that to make good decisions. They also should be drumming in the safety issues with the kids. And I'm not sure that's happening either. Well, maybe, maybe that's for somebody like you. I mean, assuming you have the time and resources to do it, I would see that the computer savvy education, including, you know, keeping kids safe, safe online would come from one source and then the substance would come from the regular teachers. But the regular teachers have to be up on this and they have to understand how to engage. And a lot of them can't do that. They've got to be taught to do that. Furthermore, software, I want to talk to you about software. So right now you said you're, you know, you're trying to teach them what Microsoft Office. Microsoft Office, Office 365 is free to schools. Schools are most they're using a lot of Google Docs, which Google Docs is okay, but I feel like the kids are getting shortchanged. It's not as entailed or it's not as sophisticated as Microsoft Office, which is pretty much everywhere in the workplace. And once you get out of school, but hopefully they can gain those skills and transition to it without too much trouble because they they're growing up with technology. So they're not adverse to learning it or picking it up. They pick it up quickly. Yeah. Well, I totally agree with you. Microsoft is a more powerful and B, although, you know, some people don't like it, but B, Microsoft is in the workplace, it's ubiquitous, and it's going to stay there. And so if Microsoft is giving it away free, what they're doing is they're, they're, they're connecting with all these kids, we're going to know something about it. And that sets the standard for the workplace, whether the workplace being an officer at home, that's, that's a whole other conversation. Part of, part of this is to train them to work at all when they get to working age. The problem I think with the schools is that they jump on the cheapest thing right away without doing the right research. So they invest in Chromebooks because they were like $200, but the Chromebooks can't do a lot of things. Now there, I understand there's new versions of Chromebooks coming out that will be able to run Windows, but so they are, they have a lot of these things, you know, not, not top quality products, but they, it comes down to money, basically. That's too bad. You can't go, you can't go short on money when you're talking about the next generation. Lord knows this country has failed to educate several generations already. And then you can see that in, in the political times in which we lived, when 20%, you see this yesterday, 20% of the people polled on a national basis did not know who Kamala Harris was, did not know who she was. And I said, what kind of ignorance is that? It's pervasive, which drives me to another question I want to ask you. It's okay. So you have, you have Microsoft and presumably you have the Microsoft browser, the, what's the name of that browser again? Explore or the edge? Yeah, explore or edge. I like exploring myself. And that's really where you learn a lot of stuff on the browser. I spent a good part of my, my thinking day on the browser, because I can see everything I want to see in the world on that browser. It's my main night. It's my portal to knowledge of all kinds. So are you teaching them about that? Yes, we definitely teach them about that. We teach them the importance of doing searches, how to do searches, how to decipher what may be good or bad information, and, and about copywriting and, and using the right protocol. So they can't just plagiarize things because that's easy to do too. Well, these days, you pick with us too. So, okay, that to me, that is really, really important. Okay, and the next, the next thing, and I, and maybe this isn't your wheelhouse, but there is a lot of software and I remember going to classes at the university back when I was studying this myself in the outreach college there. A lot of software that is dedicated to teaching you stuff. And it's software that's built to teach you a course. And you go through a certain amount of, you know, learning and then you take a test and then you go to another chapter and all that. I don't, I don't know, it probably evolved a lot since then. And it's probably including a lot of video now that it, you know, it wasn't including then. But building that software is critical for this, isn't it? What do you do about that? Well, I think you have to research what's out there. I think there's a lot out there. There's a lot of good kids stuff out there. And there, some of it is even older that that is really good. There's a lot of series called the Edmark series for K to two kids that focuses on gaming kind of things that's teaching math or reading or rhyming or things like that. And I think that the educators aren't used to looking for that kind of stuff because they're kind of still mostly teaching in traditional ways in the classroom. So I'm hoping that this COVID stuff will force the issue of education to change and become more proactive in seeking alternatives. Yeah, sounds like it actually will because COVID's not going away. And I think parents in Hawaii care a lot about their kids and they're not going to be so quick to turn them back into the into a viral school. And so what you're doing is really central to that. It starts with teaching them about the basic rules of operating a computer and a browser, but it goes much further because what you're doing is actually helping to shape the educational paradigm which is being invented all around us now. The national discussion on this has got to result in a new paradigm about how you teach young kids. You're definitely involved. I hope so. And I hope I'm sure when we get done with our curriculum migration it's going to be awesome. And then it's a matter of marketing and getting it in the schools. And right now I feel like I can't even try to market it because they're so concerned about how they're going to go to school and for COVID. So it's kind of like a catch-22 because they should have it right now and they need all this computer stuff, but they're really focused on the child safety and the COVID stuff. So I'm giving it a little rest for a few months. I'm going to do a mail out to them and we'll see what happens on that. But I can't even go call and meet with a school right now. So I think the DOE has to be reorganized here around this, not just because of COVID, but because of the future. So when do you put all of this on a priority list? If somebody from the legislature called you up one day and said, where is all this fit? How high on the priority poll should this be in terms of our public policy, in terms of making the state magnetic? That is, it'll hold kids. They won't wind up being discouraged and leaving town or whatever you were, or going into a life that rejects knowledge. That's the worst thing of all. Where is it on the priority list? In my mind, I think the proper use of technology should be right up there with reading and writing and math because in today's world, you can't do anything without a computer. It's always been kind of traditionally seen as an add-on thing, but I think it's become a necessity. And early on in our years, my board president said to me, if we've done a good job, we should go away in 10 years, and I would make the argument that it's more necessary today than ever, and that it ever has been. It's not going to go away. That's for sure. Never ever. So when people talk about reimagining the economy, because right now, we have no economy. So reimagining the economy, what always comes to mind is the possibility of becoming a more tech state and having entrepreneurs and innovators to develop tech things and sell them and have good income and so forth. Do you think there's a way to shape or reshape our educational system to actually do that? Because we've been trying since John Burns to have a tech state, and you can look around. You don't see that yet. Is it still possible? And what do you do? What do you think people could do to get there? Well, I think it's a good, you know, everybody talks about diversifying our economy. I think it's certainly a good way of doing that, and that it's desperately needed. I know that for a while they had the Manoa Innovation Center, but you know, I think they could do it on more of a level with teaching program, making software for kids. They could do it on all kinds of levels. But I think that was a different, like that was a higher scale project, I think they are. Well, Gigi, what would you leave with our audience? We're almost out of time here. What would you leave with our audience in terms of a message? A message about Ohana computer with a K, a message about kids and education, and the need for computers and software to keep them engaged and thinking and train them and give them the tools of knowledge. What would you say about people who want to support you? Where should they look to find out more about you? Where should they look to find out where to send their checks? That checks, you know what I mean? That checks. Give them a message you want to leave them with. Okay. Well, I feel like they can always look at our website, www.OhanaComputerWithK.org. There's a donation button there. Checks can be mailed to us. Our address is on there. I feel like these COVID times should be our opening new frontiers for us. And that's kind of exciting to change the face of education. Now, whether our local crew jumps on boarded in that manner, or they're just putting out fires and band-aid approaches, I hope they'll take a longer turn view and do some good planning. And any schools or people that want to learn more about how we can help them, we like to be seen as a resource to the community. And we've been doing this for 20 years. So we know what we're doing and we know how kids learn and they can pick it up. And we have an awesome curriculum. And the online version will be available soon. And that will be even more awesome. And about the underprivileged families and the seniors who really don't have access to these tools, what do you say to them? Well, we've been teaching seniors and adults, and we've actually been teaching them in small groups of four or less on Zoom. We try and write grants for funding. It's, of course, a tough time. And if we have a paid class, I'm always willing to fit someone in that can't pay as that's part of our mission to serve the economically disadvantaged. So we try our best. We're not a big household name. So we've gotten funding throughout the years, obviously. But instead of giving us 10 or 20,000, they give us three or five. I'd like to go for bigger bucks. Last question, Gigi. You said you've been doing it for 20 years and I have known you for a fraction of that, but not an insubstantial fraction. So the question is, why do you do this? This is a nonprofit. I don't think you're going to get to be a billionaire doing this, but why do you do it? You're consistently doing it year after year. Why? Well, I was always, when I was a kid, I wanted to go into education and I was kind of pushed into business, which I'm glad I have that background and I have a very strong financial business background. And so I feel like I'm doing kind of the best of both worlds. I'm kind of an admin person in education using my business sense and making a difference in people's lives. And I guess I'm one of those do-gooders. I like to help people's lives and yeah, I don't get paid a huge salary, but I survive, so it's okay. Yeah, this is the time when it really shines. Thank you so much, Gigi. Thank you for all of that. Gigi Davidson, Ohana computer, the larger Ohana computer. Thank you so much. And they could also call our phone number, which is 523-8191, if they want any information. Good. I knew you'd say that. Thank you for interviewing me again. We'll do it again. Don't leave town. I'm not going anywhere. One can't even go anywhere if one wants to. Thank you, Gigi. Aloha.