 one and welcome my podcast Friday PM the podcast. My name is Luigi Scarcelli. I'm here with Lee Kellis, the founder and creator of Holy Donuts. Welcome, Lee. How are you? Hello, Luigi. I am wonderful. Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Thank you. Lee is calling in from Florida. The weather's a little better there than it is here. We're still in the muddy season. And Lee has a few things coming up that we want to talk about as well as you're not only the founder of Holy Donuts, you're also an author. You have the women who need donuts as well as the love diet. That is true. I had a lot of thoughts and a lot of things to share that I learned from starting a donut business and about myself. So I put them into a couple short and sweet little books. Perfect. Perfect. I think one of them was about three or four years ago and the other was last year. Yeah, something like that. I sort of lose track of time, but I think that's about right. Sure. So let's start right out. Can you tell me a little bit about your kind of early biography? You were born in Portland. I know that. Yeah, definitely. Portland and went to school on Steven's Ave. Like the very few people I think go kindergarten to senior year right in that row on Steven's Ave. But I did that. And then I went to the University of Maine, but definitely a Mainer for sure. And then I tried to get out of there as soon as I could to see the rest of the country when I moved to San Francisco. But definitely a Portland native, yes. How long were you in San Francisco for? I went for six years and I was a concierge and I got to know the city really well. And I did lots of whining and dining and theater. And that was an awesome six years of my life. So that kind of gets us up to 2009. Had you met your husband? Because we're going to talk a little bit about that briefly in San Francisco. Was that back in Maine or? Yeah, I met him in San Francisco and our daughter, she was born in San Francisco. And then we moved back to the east coast because San Francisco is a little too expensive at that point. Back then, still is. I think it still is, exactly. Yeah, it hasn't got any less expensive. Yeah. And so you guys moved back. You had a young daughter at the time, probably nine or 10 or something? No, she was very little when we moved back, four. And that's kind of when I started my new life. I started working in restaurants. So I really, I hadn't been in Maine for several years, or Portland for several years. And I got right into the restaurant scene. And that was just really kind of how I started to get to know everybody and get to experience the food scene in Maine, which I guess we could kind of make sense as to why I got into the food business because I saw the potential. Right, right. It was the niche that was really growing a lot. So you'd been in the food business, you kind of got to know, you know, the Old Port is, it's a very familial, I mean, it's they fight like families, but a lot of people know each other. So it's kind of a, it's a great structure to start in. Yeah, I actually worked at Evangeline. So that was Eric Deserles restaurant when I first moved back to Maine after many years. And I met so many people who I'm still really close with. And a lot of those people sort of helped form the rest of my career and my life. And I started the doughnut business kind of born out of that inspiration and seeing how receptive Portland is to local businesses and to food and to unusual creations. So that's kind of, you know, where the doughnut was born out of the, the potential that I saw Portland had to receive it. And we'll get to that, I'm sure. Right, right. But in 2009, you and your husband split up? Yeah, we moved, we bought property in Wiskast at Maine and built, he built a solar powered house on a 40 acre plot. And I was driving back and forth to work at Evangeline as the manager. And that was kind of the beginning of the end, sadly. It was very stressful. And I sometimes people don't survive big life projects like that. And that, that was the beginning of challenges. He was living his dream to build this off the grid project. And I was still trying to maintain normalcy in society. And we kind of, it kind of created a little bit of a risk. So yes, the divorce ensued, which was very, very nobody, nobody likes divorce. It was, it was not fun. And but yeah, something good came out of it. That's, that's the silver lining. Right, right. And so, you know, you kind of grew apart. You were back living with your mom at the time? Yeah. So then I, then the next phase was separation. And I'm moving to my mom's unheated attic in Portland. And it was cold. And it was January. And I had my small four-year-old or actually six, six year old daughter. And I was kind of set adrift. And I cried a lot. And I didn't know what I was doing with my life. And I got a job at a pizza place in Portland and just kind of decided to take it day by day and just figure out what, what was going to happen next in life. Things happened out of desperation. And then I guess a little bit of inspiration, but the need for a career and a life and an income forced me to figure it to think about something creative. And that's, that's where the doughnut came from. Right. And so was this, had you thought of, was it kind of an idea that it was a big picture idea? Like I want to do something food related because you're, that was the natural inclination. I mean, was it, was it, was it like, Oh, I could start an insurance company or I could create a perfect doughnut place? Was it already kind of a tabulation a little bit? So it was a necessity for heart comfort. So I was very emotionally scarred from going through a divorce and I just wanted comfort food. And I sort of became obsessed with doughnuts and I was finding myself looking for good doughnuts everywhere I would go. I went back to San Francisco a couple of times. I'd go to Boston, New York City, and I would just find myself searching for doughnuts, which indicated that there was some sort of deep need that was, that was needing to be met in my soul and in my life and in my taste buds, I guess. And at that pizza place I was working in Portland, the owner knew that I was obsessed with doughnuts and out of the blue one day, he just said, you need to open a doughnut shop. And I, it hit me like a ton of bricks as if it were like a message from God. And I just, the next morning I went to the bookstore, I was a mother, a single mother with no, like hardly an income. And I started writing down every doughnut recipe I could find for free in the books. And I just went home and started making doughnuts like every single day of my life for months until I perfected a recipe. And I think that a lot of people think of the, the potato doughnut as kind of your signature. Is that actually accurate that that's, or is that one of the types of doughnuts you do or? No, every single doughnut pretty much has mashed potato in it. So it's not potato flour, it's mashed potato. And that was an idea from the same pizza guy. He said, use potato. And I said, that sounds weird, but it's like the gnocchi concept or potato bread. It just makes everything more rich and delicious. So I found a recipe in the joy of cooking cookbook and I went with it and then I tweaked it and I changed it into the different variations that we have at the Holy doughnut. And I just thought they were the most delicious thing I'd ever had. And so I said, if I love this, it's sellable. I think I have a business on my hand. And is that also that there are they gluten free or is potato not necessarily gluten free? It's just a different type of ingredient for a doughnut. So it's one third potato, two thirds regular flour. So they're definitely not gluten free, but they little left. How did you come up with the name Holy doughnut? That's something I think that a lot of people are wondering. Yeah. So I thought it was funny. It's the same. I will give the third bit of credit to the same pizza guy. He said, use potatoes and call it the Holy doughnut. And every single thing he said within that 90 second stretch, I ran with it and I said, yeah, I said, I'm not even going to consider another name. I love it. I thought it was cute. The potato is the holy crop of mains basically. And I considered doughnuts holy. It's not because of any religion or anything. I just thought it was cute in a great pun. It's actually what I had looked at myself was that it's very interesting because we'll talk a little bit later in the podcast about kind of your bigger search and your kind of overall spiritual search, not in a religious way per say, but in a holistic way. And the first thing that I thought of was the doughnut and the circle is very representative in many spiritual ways as the infinite, the eternity, original perfection, totality. It could have been a cosmic coincidence. It's hard to know. Ah, I would say given my my propensity for looking at synchronicities and deep meaning, I think you're absolutely right because I don't think that there's any coincidences. Right, exactly. Things happen for a reason. So at that time, I mean, I read the book, the first book, the women who need doughnuts. And it talks about you started out on a very small kitchen. You're just baking by yourself. I mean, this was like the mad scientist stage. Could you tell me a little bit about when? Oh, yeah, totally mad scientist, totally like out of the movie. I just I had an apartment on Montjoy Hill. And I just started making doughnuts for at a time in a pot on my stove with a thermometer. So the temperature was all over the place. I didn't know what I was doing, but they just tasted so darn good. I just couldn't really screw them up. And I invited people over. I said, you got to try these. They're so delicious, cinnamon and sugar. But yeah, it was started very, very organically, just in a pot on my stove for a time. So from there, you kind of start expanding. You're going to smaller kind of bakeries, I think, or coffee shops. What was the what was the original group of people other than your family, which we'll get to in a second, that your first kind of reach out from that? Yeah, I walked down the street because I lived right on the top of the hill down to the Indian Street, the Washington Ave, coffee by design. And Marnie, the manager, I had I knew her and I just said, hey, I've got a plate of doughnuts here. I said, you want to start selling some tomorrow? And she said, sure. And I felt like I had hit the jackpot. I was so excited. I thought I can't believe someone's going to sell something I made. And I soon thereafter went and rented a commercial kitchen, a small restaurant space. But it was very small scale to begin. I think she sold six or 12 the first day and it went well. So I was very encouraged. Yeah, and it seems interesting because it does seem like at that time, because this was again, 2012, 13, is that where those days were? 2011 is when I kind of really started the wholesale business. And so it seemed like there was this whole burgeoning coffee by design, a lot of very cool coffee shops. And I don't know if they were really too interested in having, you know, doughnuts from country kitchen or wherever the types of places are, they probably said, well, doughnuts are great. And was there were there people making doughnuts in a way that you were even just in a local sense? No, and I think I was I sort of pride myself with having business intuitions. I sort of kind of know what's going to come next. I just have these senses about things and nobody was really doing doughnuts, which is exactly why I jumped on it back in 2011. I said, I'm looking for this product and I can't find it. Therefore, it's needed. And I can fill a niche and nobody I have no competition. So it was great. At that point, I just said, Oh, I've got a product that I think is going to fly. So I just I was really inspired. Yeah, and I know that I was living in Chicago at the time and there was people doing the cupcake craze and they were selling out with cupcakes. So I mean, it's it's an interesting way that you realize that I mean that I think you talked about in the book that, you know, it's a comfort food. It is kind of an old fashion type of thing. It has that New England vibe to it. But you're just also putting a new spin on it. Totally. Exactly. That was exactly my business philosophy is that it's something that's been around forever, but yet nobody's doing it. But yet I can put a new spin on it and make it a little quirky and, you know, updated. Yeah, yeah, cool. So in those days, your family was really helpful. Your dad jumped right in. This is when you first were really just doing the cooking before you opened the first holy doughnuts. Is that correct? It was about seven months. So I was doing the wholesale myself for several months. And then he jumped in, I think it was like six or seven months in. And he was very, very, very beyond helpful. He said, you have a business on your hands. You can't afford to help to pay anybody. And I'm going to be here at 6am every single day and help you. And from that moment forward, he never faltered. He was there for years at 6am to help me deliver my wholesale, and then help me open the first shop on park out. And we'll talk more about your dad because I, you know, I know that he's very inspirational to you, but I just wanted to talk about, you know, your family was Jeff also helped out with some of the business, your brother-in-law. So he jumped in about a year and a half in. He quit his job, which was a big risk with a family of three kids and a wife. And he said, I see the potential in this donut thing and I'm going to help. And we're going to basically blow it up. And that was the whole other thing that you probably read in the book that I was really reluctant because I just wanted it to be one cute little donut shop and leave it at that and keep it simple. And he said, no, I don't think you see the potential here. And so we're now opening our fifth shop because of him. And yeah, that's that's how Jeff has contributed. And he's he's not stopping anytime soon. And so at that time, you had the first shop. So that kind of gets us to where we were at that period was the first shop I think that I ever saw was around that time. And it was by the the Expo Center, whatever that's called now, kind of in that part of Portland. Is that was that the first shop? Yeah, that was the first shop. It used to be the old Taroni sandwich shop for 45 years. And my dad and I went in and the two of us just cleaned it and painted it and made it extremely, you know, low budget little donut operation with really I had no business experience. I just I was winging it and it went pretty well. Right, right. Was there did you need to have any type of marketing? I mean, how did how did was it just that people just found it by word of mouth? Like how does how does a place become overnight success? So there's two things. I had established the wholesale presence by with the coffee by design. And then actually Whole Foods said yes, right away, which also blew my mind to selling my product. And then pretty much every single coffee shop in Portland was selling them. So they had already gained a reputation of oh, there's a delicious homemade doughnut around town. So when we opened on March 16th of 2012, people already knew about the product. But the biggest exciting thing was on 16 days later, on the 28th Meredith Gold wrote an article in the Portland Press Herald about this new this new donut shop with a, you know, a twist, basically. And from that moment on, I remember I was sitting there making donuts by myself, which I did most of the at the beginning. And the line was out the door and down the street. And I was panicking and shaking because it just went haywire overnight to like a trickle of customers to literally a line out the door and people almost reaching into the fryer for donuts. I mean, we couldn't make them fast enough. I sold a thousand donuts that day. And I just couldn't keep up. And I, I mean, it's a wonderful problem to have, but it just blew my mind. And you still remember that date of when that was? March 28th. Yep, it was March 28th of 2012. And it was, she wrote the article that morning and the paper came out and the line never stopped. Thank God. And it was expansion ever since, which is really, you know, the interesting part as well. And I think you, didn't it help that you got the shop that was on route one just for visibility? Or was that something that added some people would, it was almost a, you drive by, I mean, they imagine the millions of people that drive by on, on their way to Old Orchard. And they just Google, well, what is this holy donuts? Or let's stop by and try it. I mean, it's something different than over and over at Dunkin Donuts or at Tim Hortons. And you took over at Tim Hortons actually at that location. Exactly. Which is, I'm very, very proud of that. Our second store was the Exchange Street Shop, which you probably recall. And that, that was a crazy, crazy busy location right in the heart of the Old Port. And that was, we did that for five years until we just moved locations. But the Scarborough route one location you just mentioned, that was a big deal. We took over a big Tim Hortons and it's got a drive through and a huge location. And that was kind of a turning point for our little local homegrown business to how all of a sudden have more of a corporate presence. So, and that, yeah, that was a pretty good business move. So what was a, like, what was the staff like early on? This is something that I find interesting. I mean, did you find people that you knew other than your family? And then how did, how did you go about expanding that for a lot of the other young entrepreneurs out there to keep their, you know, expanding in a way that works? Is there any advice that you would have to people? Oh, that's actually hilarious because it was, it was kind of just so chaotic at the beginning. And it took so many years to get systems. And that's really where Jeff came in. He really tightened the ship and created systems because I'm a, a creative butterfly. I'm, you know, the logic side of the brain and the creative side of the brain are so different. All I could think about was donut flavors and creating. But here I was with a very busy business and I had to figure out how to staff it and run it and be an HR manager and a donut creator. And I was not that great at it. So at the beginning, the staff was basically just like a hodgepodge of local 20-somethings who are all wonderful human beings, but it was the place was so busy. We just really tried to keep it together every single day. And it does take a village. And so that does lead me to another question about being the creator of the donuts. I mean, how do you get inspiration for different flavors? What, what for the viewer who might be listening to this from far away, and maybe they're going to come to Maine? Like what are some of the different flavors? What's the palate? What's the, what, what, what would be from the chef side of things? Cause we've been talking a lot about the business side, but tell me about that side too. Cause I know you really do drive a lot from the pleasure of taste and things of that nature. Oh yeah. My friend jokes that on my gravestone, it's going to say she loved flavor because I really love, like I say, every donut needs to be like a punch in the face. Like it needs to be something you will never forget full of flavor, extremely different, not necessarily different, but just really good. So at the very beginning, the first kind of 12 flavors, I just started creating things that I really wanted to eat. So I thought, ooh, a sweet potato donut. Nobody's making that. Never heard of it. So I, I created the recipe with a ginger glaze, so spicy, but different. And the chocolate sea salt was really, nobody was doing chocolate and salt 11 years ago. I, and that sounds a little cocky, but I think in my own brain, I think I created it for the donut world. And then the cannoli, I went on a food network donut competition and I had to create a donut in like 30 minutes on TV under the gun sweating bullets. And I created the cannoli donut with the ricotta and mascarpone filling. And it's so good. So we still have that. And then just all the various flavors, the Allen's coffee brandy, I thought was funny because that's just a cheap booze in Maine that everybody's known for, the soccer games and their coffee cups. And I thought, oh, that'd be funny on a donut and delicious. So it's just basically things that I would find incredibly delicious. I just, you know, let's throw it in the donut. And a lot of them just worked. We made a lot that were awful. We made zucchini donuts and matcha green tea donuts and red velvet donuts, but with beet juice because I never want to use anything artificial. Everything has to be organic and natural because I'm neurotic. So I made a lot of, there's been hits and misses, but I don't think there's any donut stone unturned in my 11 years. And was there ever a time that you tried to do like a moxie donut or a lobster? I did a moxie donut. It's actually really hard to get a full moxie flavor, but I tried it. I tried every single thing pertaining to Maine. We did a lobster donut that was really, really, really good, but just cost of products is way too high. And so I just wanted to talk to you about briefly from the business side of things, like where do you see holy donuts in the next five years? Is there a game plan? What you want to do? Yeah. So we're opening up three building commissary kitchen kind of massive donut presence in Arundel, Maine, which is right next to Penny bunk. And that's going to be opening soon. And that is the next phase. So that will be a commissary kitchen that could potentially feed other surrounding locations. And Jeff has pretty big visions about multiple locations. So once we get the Arundel location up and running, I think he'll set his sights in a couple of years on several more locations going more south, maybe into New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Duncan Donuts has their competition on the way, right into Boston. So I definitely wanted to talk to you a little bit about your relationship with your dad. I know that was important to you. He was kind of an inspiration to you. Was there any things that you wanted to mention about your dad and how important he was for you? Yes. So he was inspiring in the fact that he supported me unlike anything I've ever had in my life, where he really believed in my vision and my mission. And it's hard to even put into word just for someone to say, I'm going to show up at six a.m. every single day indefinitely. That's kind of unheard of nowadays and to say I'll pretty much do it unpaid. And like I wrote in the book, I was always stressed out and probably not that nice to him because he's my dad because kids can be that way. But he always took it in stride. He was always laughing. He was like, I called him my donut Buddha and my donut angel. And it would be absolutely impossible to have started this whole enterprise without his help for the first probably five years. And then yes, he got cancer that was kind of a shocker to all of us. And he continued to help and didn't tell he didn't want anyone to know that he had cancer because he didn't want people to have any pity or weirdness. And he would just show up and put a hat on because he lost all his hair and the Timo was so brutal. And he still smiled and threw on an apron and greeted every guest with a huge smile. And it was quite phenomenal. He loved the donut business actually kept him alive for a few years beyond his diagnosis because he just was so enamored with the whole growth and the success and the excitement and the positive vibes and the whole donut business is so fun and hopeful and inspiring and everyone who walks in smiles and they leave smiling bigger than they left. And that's good for anybody's health is, you know, giving hope through donuts and giving hope through family business that works and giving hope through a sweet experience. And that's exactly why I started the business is I just wanted to contribute some sweetness to the world. And I do think that it's also just hopeful for a lot of people. Maine is such a state right now where it's kind of if you aren't wanted to be or trying or attempting to be an entrepreneur. It's a difficult state. I mean, I grew up here as well. And the jobs are not really unless you're maybe in the medical field or something. So there is that hope for a lot of people kind of what you succeeded at, which is like that American dream of making it work. I mean, is that something that, you know, a lot of younger people you think should really keep their hope for that? Is there any words of inspiration about stick with it, you know, tenacity pays off? Good ideas? God, I could really get into this topic. First of all, yes, you're right. Maine is a weird state when it comes to just taking a ready made job hand in your lap. That's not going to happen. So it's like resourcefulness is something that I think us Mayners have and or really need to have and creativity and thinking outside the box, which is exactly what this is an example of. It's like I started with four donuts a day for and a dozen for five bucks out of just there was no guarantee that this is going to create an income for me. But I really believed in it and I and I was craving the product and I just was relentless. I was I was really committed to bringing this product to Portland because I felt like everybody needs a little bit of sweet comfort, basically. And in terms of what you just asked about younger people and inspiration, my theory and motto is your heart and sometimes your hardship is your success. So food and pleasure and enjoyment and and the sweet things in life, that's my heart. And that is what I translated into success, but also the hardship of a divorce. I had to make something happen and I had to turn lemons into lemonade and I had to support my daughter and I had to make my life feel better. And I had to believe in myself. So it was like all of these things pointed into the direction of do something that makes me feel good that will also make others feel good. And I think that is the recipe for success. I want to thank you very much, Lee, for your time. Enjoy the rest of your time in Florida. It sounds like it's short and you'll be back here in Maine suffering with the rest of us through the spring that always seems to be muddy. Thanks again and thanks again to everybody for listening. Take care. Good night. Thank you.