 Recently, a reverend Islam or revered Islamic cleric, Sheikh Ahmad Gumi, advised the federal government to support splinter groups among bandits as a way to end mass abductions of school pupils. He said many bandits were ready for a dialogue, arting that the government could use them to fight the ugly ones. A PDP chieftain has commented on the development, saying that if the initiative used by Gumi and former president, Shia Olusha Bassenjo, that was used in releasing the Afakar students were adopted, banditry would end in July. But how true is all of this? Well, joining us to discuss this is Efeu Wanago. He is an expert on security matters. Thank you very much, Efeu, for joining us. Only the pleasure to be with you. So Sheikh Gumi is back in the news. Before now, he suggested amnesty. He suggested negotiations. I mean, now he's coming up with the fact that we need to build splinter bandit groups to be able to put an end to insecurity. I'm not a security expert, but Common Sense is asking, why do we need splinter bandit groups? What does this even mean? Well, for me, it would be clear that he is just apparently out to make a caricature of the Nigerian government, basically. Because it will show that we have been unable to handle the task of governance, the task of possession of security, and taking care of criminal elements in the form of terror in terms of bandits as they have been cretined. So now he's suggesting, in addition to his various other unsavory suggestions that we should support his splinter group to, I think it's absolute nonsense. And I don't think anybody should pay heed to Sheikh Gumi. In fact, I'm one of those who believe that he should have been asked very serious questions. After his time and contact with these guys who have perpetrated criminality in the North West and parts of the North East. If you just ask my question, because I was going to ask next, why is Sheikh Gumi still in the news? Why is he still walking free and making some of these preposterous analogies or making these kind of recommendations? And he's still allowed to be in the news and taking interviews. I mean, of course, he has a freedom of expression, but when this borders on our security, should this be allowed in the first instance? It is terribly disturbing, Nerean. And for me, it should appear that he's somebody that could be charged as if he hadn't been an accessory before and after the fact of most of the crimes going on. And ordinarily, I would think that our security agencies and intelligence agencies would have swooped on him and used him to on earth the intricacies, the inner workings of these groups. And go ahead to neutralize them. But Sheikh Gumi seems to be like one of the class of sacred cows that we have in Nigeria who nobody can talk to, who nobody can talk to. And it is such responses, it is such inertia or inaction from the government for certain individuals that create the impression that certain people are sacred cows in the country. And they can say what they want to say, and there is no problem. But somebody else says this from some other part of the country and you get flags from the government and the government spokesman. So this is not right at all. Sheikh Gumi is not the public officer, he's not the security expert. But he has made comments, we have seen videos of him dissenting with the bandits or the criminals, whatever you call them. And nobody have, have swooped on Gumi. Nobody have even utilized his so-called networks, you know, and the myth they have to go in there and neutralize his people. So something is wrong, something is on me. Basically, I would expect that Sheikh Gumi would have been invited and through COVID and over to me, he would have been investigated thoroughly. And through the investigations of Sheikh Gumi and his acolyte, that the issue of banditry in the Mountain West and some central part of the country would have been definitely ended. But unfortunately that is not the case. Now it's the kidnappings and the grabbing of school pupils, whether they're a university or normal school children, seems to now be an everyday thing because every day we're seeing hundreds were taken, 22 were taken, I mean the numbers are bandit all around. And every day the people who are parents of these children who were taken keep telling us or churning out numbers or huge amounts of monies that they have paid as opposed to the security agencies saying, oh monies did not exchange hands, money should not exchange hands. But then we see that these parents have to sometimes have GoFundMe accounts so that people can help them to get their children out. Is this not a show of the fact that maybe we are not serious about dealing with this issue of banditry and paying these ransom again and again? Is this not also a way of funding terrorism in the country? How do we make sure that these issues are taken seriously because again the government keeps paying lip service to it, talking tough, but we do not see it matched by actions. Could it be that our security agencies are tired? Are they overstretched? What exactly is the case for someone who's in the field? What should we make of this? Because it's gradually becoming a norm and how long before it overruns the whole country? And Marianne, even for some of us security professionals and practitioners in the field of security, this appears to be some conundrum that Nigeria has been put in. It is inexplicable that ragtime groups, as I like to describe them, that believe that they are ragtime, would hold us to ransom for this long and that doesn't seem to be any concerted, definitive effort to get them out of business. So to speak, we keep on giving excuses. We keep on christening and re-christening with different nomenclature, from Boko Haram to Bandit to criminal headsmen and what are you, or non-gone men. But rather than do the work which government is supposed to do, we're not doing it. And I believe that the Nigeria security agencies have sufficient capacity to neutralize these groups that exist within the shores of Nigeria. Why we are not doing the needful beats my imagination. Let's take it clearly now. What training do they have? The Nigerian military, the police and the GSS have sufficient support, sufficient networks legitimately to call for support to neutralize these guys. So is it a political will as it is meeting? I cannot tell. We are aware of course that we have a deficiency of critical equipment, arms and ammunition and what have you. But even what we have and in manpower, are they sufficiently motivated in the proper direction being gotten from the highest quota to say, okay, this is what I want. And in one, two, three months, I want this definitively ended. If we remember clearly, in the last few months of presidential term, just before the election, after the first heat they had, Boko Haram that seemed to be very invincible. That seemed to be larger than life. Where there's a definitive blow. And the elections held in all parts of the country without any issues. So that proved to all Nigerians at the time that if the government decides to do what it ought to do, they are going to do it. So I think that- So does it mean that the government is not ready to deal with the insecurity that we're facing in the country? Is it that, how many more people, let me just put it this way, how many more people need to die? How much grounds do these kidnappers and bandits need to cover for the government to begin to take it seriously? Because one minute we think that the government seems to be serious, but then the next minutes, it's happening all over again. Is it that these guys have also taken advantage of the government's weakness or the fact that they're not moving as fast as they should to continue to do what they're doing? Absolutely. I would want to agree with the last supposition that it is possible that they are taking advantage of the government's seeming inaction or narrow space or uncoordinated outlook as far as this battle is concerned. That's what we think. Now, with regards to how many more people who died before a definitive response will be made, it's left for the government to explain. But for me, I believe that the government can do the meat food. I believe that the Nigerian Army and Air Force and the DSS and the police are not so weak that such ragtime groups will be running the whole country as short. No, this is not going to happen. It cannot continue to happen, rather. So for me, the government needs to display that it is doing all in its power. You partner, we saw how the late President of Chad, he was able to chase criminals into Nigeria. We saw how he definitely dealt vocal around serious blow in Chad before he met his death. Now, nobody would doubt the originality, the Air Force and the authenticity of the fight against vocal around in Chad. But I guess in Nigeria, many people are beginning to wonder, do we really want vocal around Bandit, whatever you call them or not government, to come to an end? For me, I think not. We're not ready. When we are ready, I believe it can be pushed to a definitive end. Wow. Well, I want to say thank you, if you want to go. This is all the time that we have, if you want to go. He is a security expert and he joined us live from Potaka. Thank you very much for speaking with us. Thank you so much for having me. All right. Well, we'll take a short break now and hear what Nigerians have to say about the alliance with Bandit. And when we return, I will give you my take. It's better because the killing is too much. If you go to the North now, you can't travel to the North. You can't travel to anywhere. I don't know where we are going to. So it's better the federal government to like negotiate with them. If the federal government can dialogue with the Bandits in as much as this killing, abductions, and what a view can stop. It's okay. But the problem with our people is whenever they dialogue with them again, the fear of another group raising up costumium in the country is still imminent. I said no. It is not good. It is not right. Because if you dialogue with them, automatically you are inviting other ones that will rise up and take over from them. Because when you dialogue with them, probably you give them, you see appointment or train them. I don't understand me. That will not stop criminality. The best thing is to arrest them, go to their creeks, go to their hideout, arrest them and make sure they are charged to cut the country. We have the laws in the land that deal with all this kind of issue. I don't believe the federal government should go for negotiation with the Bandits. No, it's totally wrong. Let the federal government look for a solution to ease, not to go to bargain and get anything. There is nothing like that. No, there is nothing I can't talk with Bandits. What are the people that have killed their family? The government knows what to do. They have been dealing with these people. There was a time there was negotiation with Boku Aram. If they think that that is the best way for our people to be free, you understand? I believe they should consider the life of people. If there are any relationships between the government and the Bandits, it will be better. For a reasonable government, there is no need for them to negotiate with terrorists. Because the international community they say that the full-time management is a terrorist organization. So there is no need for them to negotiate. The only thing they can do is for them to use their military strength. And make sure these full-time management are dealt with. Here's my take. It's saddening that every single day we keep harping on the same issues, hoping that governments will give favorable responses only to wake up to worse scenarios like suspending Twitter. Like we do not have enough problems or that the country is not suffering enough and taking economic and social hits. So this is why I always ask if our leaders really are there for us or for themselves. I mean these Bandits who are causing mayhem, the killers and the kidnappers, those targeting our police men are electoral officers. Should they not be our federal government and the presidency's priority? Why are we killing an aunt with a sledgehammer when we should be hitting hard on terrorists? Why is politics and ego more important to our leaders than the welfare of the average Nigerian? I mean just because you feel your ego is being bruised, businesses have to suffer and livelihoods have to shut down. Who comes up with these ideas, I wonder? As if we haven't suffered enough in this country. I think government needs to stop playing games and focus on the lives of every single Nigerian. Better our lots and give us a sense of safety. Bring us back to our pride of place. Give us unity, peace and progress. We need our Nigeria as it was. I am Mary Anokong. Thanking you for watching. Have a good evening.