 Okay, so it's 632, and let me just read this notice before we start. The two into chapter 20 of the Act of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time. via technological means. So with that, let me open the meeting of the Human Rights Commission. Are there any announcements? So our agenda today is pretty straightforward, public comment, followed by several items, Citizens for Juvenile Justice. And of course, the nomination of a co-chair, we have a forum so we can do that. Requests from Amherst Cinema, report on the Affordable Housing Trust, updates HRC by-law and our state of the human rights reports from last time, and update to the community events group, and finally the Latinx Heritage Month. And then we'll have public comment again and HRC member reports and set the next date and discuss any additional topics not covered. So are there any questions or additional topics? Deborah? I don't know if this is an appropriate agenda item, but I just returned from vacation and I read an article about how concerned the Social Justice Committee was around not having sufficient membership. And I don't know if this commission acts in allyship with other committees or if there is a role, but it occurred to me maybe a conversation about it, maybe a good idea. So I'll just add that for our discussion, as to whether there's a role for an HRC and the whole question of the Social Justice Committee not having a forum and so on. Okay. Any other agenda items? All right. So let's open up to public comment and let me just note that to the public, members of the public, if there is anyone, when called on, please identify yourself by stating your full name, preferred pronouns, and residential address. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes at the discretion of the chair, based upon the number of people who wish to speak. No speaker can see their time to another speaker. HRC will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during public comment. So I'm now opening us up for public comment. Jen, you have your hand up. I do. I just want to say you should do a check-in with all the members to make sure they can be heard after the public comment period. Okay. So let's do public comment. First, are there any comments? Since there's only one person in the public and there isn't anyone else, I assume we're done with public comment. So you said I need to check in with everyone. So is that like attendance? Okay, Deborah. Here. Okay, Liz. Present. Laverne. Here. Tyler. Here. And who's not here? Jacinta is not here. I think everyone else is here. Who needs to be here, right? Okay. All right, let's begin with the first agenda item. It is the Citizens Progenial Justice. I believe they were represented in here. So why don't I ask you to speak? Can the person speak? I've tried pulling them in and Pam will probably choose to speak. Tyler, if you unmute yourself, you can speak. Hi, am I on now? Excellent. Thank you all so much. Before I jump in, would it be helpful to have a PowerPoint or do you want everything to be oral? Because if you want a PowerPoint, happy to do it. I just need the share screen ability. Otherwise, happy to do it all verbally. What's your preference? I'm going to defer to Jenna, but we have the capacity to give her access to her presentation. If we do, then I would suggest giving her the access. I don't. Let's see. I have just too much trouble this time. No, no, I think just Pamela needs to do it because she came in first. And so just as I'm co-host, I don't have an opportunity to make you a co-host. I think I got it. You're good? All right. Thank you all for allowing me to present to all of you today. My name is Tana Fadal. I use she, her pronouns, and I'm the Deputy Director of Citizens for Juvenile Justice. I really appreciate being on this call with you all today. Just to let you know, I have been reaching out to human rights commissions, racial justice, grassroots organizations and other groups, allied groups across the state on a campaign that we're working on to try to raise the profile of a youth justice reform that CFJJ, along with our allies across the state, are pursuing. So before jumping in, Citizens for Juvenile Justice is just who we are. We are a statewide policy organization. We advocate on behalf of young people who are either at risk of or with legal system involvement. Our target population are those from birth until the 20s. We do everything from preventing entry into the legal system. So things like the child welfare to prison pipeline, the school to prison pipeline. Up until doing work around reducing the harms of legal system involvement, knowing that young people will get in trouble with the law. How do you make sure that the legal system itself at all decision points from the beginning, all the way to the end, including reentry and collateral consequences is developmentally appropriate. And you treat young people as children and adolescents that will have the potential and ability to grow and mature out of offending, but also as young people who where the legal system intervenes with them in a way that would be with any other adults may not work because of their age. So we do that through policy research and advocacy and coalition building. So I'm here to present to you but one of our campaigns that we are trying, I guess I mentioned earlier trying to raise a statewide profile on at the grassroots level. A lot of folks hear about criminal justice reform and think automatically mass incarceration. Our focus, because of our focuses on young people, we're not, for us, mass incarceration is actually too late in the game. We're looking early on, what can we do as young people to prevent young people even entering the legal system to make them even eligible for incarceration? So we're not looking only incarceration, we look at arrest, prosecution, criminal records, probation, all sorts of decisions. And one of the campaigns that we are hoping to pitch to all to you today to get your support or helping promote this campaign would end the automatic prosecution of all teenagers as adults. So as you all know, legally you're 18 and you're an adult. Our legal system has, we have two separate legal system, the juvenile system and the adult system. The juvenile, once you hit 18, you're automatically prosecuting the adult and there is no qualifier, there's no difference between an 18-year-old and a 30-year-old or a 50-year-old in the eyes of the law and the adult system. This is, I think, maybe the fourth session or fifth session that we have been trying to pursue this and we're really, really close. So one of the things we wanna do is get that push from grassroots folks. So I'll start with why this matters. Like I mentioned, we have two separate systems, the juvenile system by law is created so that, and I'm gonna quote you the law, the children who get in trouble with the law are not, shall not be treated as criminals, but shall be treated as delinquents where the state shall guide them as close to what a parent would do. So when we talk about the system, even though both systems have a record and you have a court record, you have incarceration, regardless of what system you're in, it derails your ability to maintain, you know, it puts barriers to your education, family attack ties, and so forth. However, one system is geared towards exclusively for adolescents and thinking, okay, how can we intervene with young people better and appropriately? So I'm gonna go for the back end. When we have young people, so we have young people up until the age of 21 under certain circumstances who are incarcerated into our juvenile justice system. But once you're hit 18, if your offense starts at 18, you're in the adult system, for moving forward, no going back. So when you look at that age cohort of kids coming out, young people coming out of incarceration, which is the deepest end, like every decision is like, are we gonna keep you out of society? So with the final answer, yes, so you need to be sentenced to incarceration because this is the most appropriate response. Then you say, okay, so what's the outcome? First outcome is we have a high rate of recidivism. And recidivism means someone comes in, they come out of the incarceration and they're in trouble again for a totally new offense. And these points, one is the rearrangement is like you went to court, and you have a court case on a totally new offense, conviction means you've been found guilty of that new offense. And if you look at the age cohorts, young people coming out of adult incarceration have double the recidivism of young people coming out of the juvenile system. So again, we talk, we use a lot for those of you in the public health world, we use the harm reduction language a lot because it's not a kind of seer, we're not gonna solve anything, but this is very significant because what we hear in the adult system, all these young people are violent, they're, all we hear is violent and they're not gonna listen and they do their own thing. Yeah, they're bunch of teenagers, but because the orientation is so different, we have this worse public safety outcome. I'm not gonna focus there. What I'm gonna focus on why and the social justice and economic justice angle of this. So what we know is the young people are the same, they're adolescents, their brains are maturing at that, at each age is different stage, but they're all in the process of maturing and towards full adulthood. But when we do a legal system intervention that delays what young people need to mature, that's education, employment, family, physical and mental health and civic engagement. If we put barriers to those, you're delaying young people meeting their developmental milestones. If you remove some of those barriers, you're helping them meet the issues of developmental milestones. And that's important because developmental milestones are directly tied to aging out of offending. So when we have an adult, a criminal legal system that says, oh, you have a quarry, we don't care about education, you're an adult now, there's no role for family. We actually, that's one of the major factors that's resulting in this high recidivism. But here's, and this is tied by research and I'm happy to send you this PowerPoint. I'm not gonna go into every slide for time sake, but this is tied to research that followed 1,300 young people over a seven year period and all of them have committed serious violence offenses as teens and ask them, why did some of them desist from crime? Why did some of them persist in crime? And the answer was none of these, none of the things that most people think are the case, you know, demographics, substance abuse, housing, mental illness, none of that. It was, I'm gonna focus on number two, which is meeting their developmental milestones on time. But this is where it comes in. There's also a racial justice issue. So when we're talking about our legal system, it is not an equal opportunity employer. Our legal system targets disproportionately low income communities and communities of color, particularly men of color. So when we're looking at, this is just as pure incarceration where we have high disparity and because I use like state and national data, national data on Latino to white disparities isn't as good as black to white. So this is the only one I can analyze, but you'll see for that age cohort, they have the highest rate of racial disparities of any age group. The juvenile system, if I gave you this presentation about like six years ago, it would have been a 10 to one disparity. Sorry about the background noise. If it was two years ago, it would have been nine to one. Now it's seven to one. There is a reason for that. Our juvenile system has a federal and state requirement to reduce racial disparities, not to just document it. We still have a long, long way to go, but this is where there's a harm reduction. There is a bad difference. But in addition to the disparities, when we're talking about a legal system that prevents young people from, being intervened with in an appropriate way, focuses on punishment than rehabilitation has more consequences. And then you have more young people of color in that. We're talking about long-term consequences that are beyond just incarceration that are disproportionate. And I do wanna talk about the economic impact. So, when you prosecute a young person as an adult, and I shared earlier like a full statement giving you the research behind all of these statements, but the first one is it derails young people's education. You are, we actually put CFJJ put out a report recently around access to education for young people who are in juvenile system compared to those adult system. The juvenile system, if you're in the juvenile system, you're in school five and a half hours a day, there's no summer school. I start there, there's no summer vacation. An adult system, about a handful of young people who are federally have a right to special education can't even, are the ones who got it after all the young people who are incarcerated in our system, depending on the, on the facility because there is a focus on education. So when you're looking at, and plus when you come out of the criminal justice system you have a core, you have an adult criminal record that is accessible to the public. A juvenile record is confidential. So those two things, access to employment and education, those are gonna hold for young people for a long, long time. So first thing, by derailing their ability to have, to continue their education and ability to get and limits their employment opportunities, it diminishes their own lifetime economic earnings. Second, because we're limiting that for a sub, a cohort of young people from every generation, we're talking about, we also have an economic labor market gap. It predates COVID, COVID just made it worse. So in 2017, 2018, economists were testifying at the state house about the last, the huge gap in our employment where we have a significant population, a baby boomer population that is retiring and not enough young people to capture those same positions. They've been doing that since before COVID. So when we're saying, okay, but for some young people you're not gonna get, you're not gonna be really ready for the marketplace, we're perpetuating that gap. And instead, we're arguing by raising the age and giving them that employment and access, because even though they're legal system involved, giving them better opportunities for employment and education, you're actually gonna help the labor gap as well. We're also talking about that by saying that this cohort of young people is not gonna be part of our fully, part of our formal economy. We're having, we're depriving our communities of their economic potential. And particularly because of, I'm gonna go back earlier, I talked about the legal systems over involvement in communities of color and low income communities, particularly for black and brown men, young men. We are depriving those young people, their communities from their economic potential. And this one actually started digging into the economic research, having spoken to an adult now who was incarcerated as a young person. And it was telling me like all of me and my cohort who are incarcerated who all came in as teenagers, not only are we not able to participate economically in our families and our communities, now our own families have to work double or work harder to make up for us. And then we come back, they have to even do more, get more, put more economic burden on them to take care of us. So there's an economics, the stock of the economic deprivation also extends to those communities as well. And then finally, I mentioned earlier, we could potentially reduce crime in half, by this only, not all crime, just by reoffending in half by this cohort, by doing that there is an economic value to reduced crime, whether it's to taxpayers and to potential victims. And I wanna say, this is not unique. We actually, our legal system is one of the last systems that looks at 18 year olds and said, nope, you're an adult, we're done, you're on your own. No, you can't own a gun, you can't smoke, you can't have, you can't do spot, gamble, sports betting now, until you're 21. We also say like, if you're in state involvement in child welfare or even your healthcare education, none of those end at the age of 18, they continue into the early late adolescence to say we need to be there for you. The reason we do that is that our society does not have a hard line of adulthood. Yes, you can vote, you can sign a contract, you can get married at 18, you can go to war. But what we try to do is you can get a job at 14, you can start driving at 16 and a half, you can pre-register to vote. Some places want 16, 17 year olds to vote in local elections where it's around education and schools. But you wanna delay things like drinking and getting a gun, even renting a car. All of those because we have a trend, our society says we have a transition to adulthood, not a hard line. Things that are pro-social that we want young people to engage in frequently and maintain and have habits in, we try to expose to them, expose them to that earlier. Things that are risk to themselves or others we want to delay. And our argument is legal system involvement because of the long-term risks and community risk added something worth delaying until they're fully into age 21. I do, before I'm not gonna go into the difference, but I do wanna end with just this, our juvenile justice system with all its harms, which is why we exist, does look at young people differently. This is a quote from our former commissioner who talked about young people as assets to be developed, not problems to be fixed. This is very much in contrast where former sheriff I spoke to and who said, these are the most dangerous people, not thinking about, well, what is our intervention that is leading to that behavior? They're the same exact young people. So I do wanna end with just what I ask is in the pitch. If this is something that you're interested in, I'm happy to answer your questions, look into. But like I mentioned when I first started, we're really looking at grassroots support across the state for this campaign. We really wanna make sure legislators know that this particular reform is something that their communities care about. So we'd love to get, if this is something that HRC, that your HRC is willing to publicly endorse, I know there's a voting process because of your role. Great, some HRCs are able to endorse, some aren't and either one have also been able to say, we can publicize it, we can drive individuals or our members or our constituencies to this campaign to have them to learn about. If you're able to endorse, there's things we can ask you to do, like letters of support or make any connections in there. So just I wanna say thank you all so much and I'm happy to answer any questions. Okay, Mr. Tatel, thank you so much for your presentation and all that good information. I think we really would like to see the PowerPoint because there's a lot in there. Are there any reflections? I assume that at some point we'll have to discuss, look at the information submitted and discuss how and whether we want to be involved. For now, are there any questions or reflections from the commission? I have a hand up, it's just in the light. Oh, sorry, yeah, Deborah, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't see it. I just wanna thank you for coming and thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for the thoroughness of your research and the power of your argumentation on why what you're advocating is important and right. Thank you. I have just one question before we let you go. I mean, how did you come up with 20? Did it seem like a good advocacy approach? I've been involved in some international efforts and usually they say 24 because there's some brain study around when all of that actually settled. So I'm just curious why you came up with 20. We actually have to work with our, specifically we just worked with DYS and say, this is who you wanna work with. So let me, actually let me backtrack. We were instrumental in passing a criminal justice reform back in 2018. One of the, and that was actually when we first proposed raising the age and what we wanted to raise actually shift the entire age of the juvenile justice system because by 2018, the juvenile justice jurisdiction was from age seven until the 18th birthday. We were like, that is too young on this end and not old enough on this end. So our proposal was to raise the age to 12 so that no elementary school students are part of, can ever be arrested and raising it to include 18, 19, 20 year olds. The law did include, we got the first part. We actually, we're the first state in the country to raise the lower age so that no one under the age of 12 can be arrested. And unlike other states, there's no car of us. There's no other ability, no other, no offense that can get you arrested. And that was important because our juvenile justice system is not a slap in the hand. A lot of folks think, oh, it's just, it's kiddie court or something like that. It's a legal system. It has its repercussions. I was just talking to someone yesterday who is a contractor and he's, I wanna say like 35 and he's like something happened at 15 is haunting me. Another person, I think she was 60, she's 65 and a teacher, something that at a 12 year old is still haunting her. Someone who's currently incarcerated is something that happened to him as something he did when he was 10 is still haunting him. It is not something, it is not a benign intervention. And when we talk to our DPO, yes, we're like, it is an intent, we have control over your body legally and every decision we have control over. It's pretty significant. So they say, what we want are those who really need this level of intervention to get back on the right track, the intensity of the rehabilitation and being close contact. So as I'm getting to your answer, the creating is you have all these young people all together. So one of the things we wanted to make sure is the age cohort is appropriate. And that's why we talked with DOIS where they said, yes, I can see someone at this age. This is the age we can do, but once you're 23, I don't think this is the appropriate side because you don't want them with a 12 year old or a 15 year old. So our position is 21 is the closest to the guns and alcohol, all that stuff. That makes sense. And we're actually also, we have another campaign that looks at the adult system and incorporating developmentally appropriate interventions in the adult system for the 21 to 25 year olds. Sorry, I give a lot longer. Thank you very much. And I'm thorough instead of short. Well, very, very sympathetic. I have no doubt that you can speak about this for days on end, but we do appreciate you coming to us today and for your concise presentation. Are there any further questions before we end this? I think I have a question and or a comment. Well, first of all, thank you for being here. Did you say that there was gonna be like, you said 12 to 20, but then you said something about like 20 to 25. Is that like a separate category and then adult would start at 25? Because here's my question or maybe my concern or my comment. I don't know which it is. In the educational system, you can remain in high school until you're 22. And since you have an educational vocational rehabilitation aspect to your presentation, I was wondering if it wouldn't be more doable if the age was 22 as it is for high school and stuff like that. While I'm in the back of my head thinking about your statement about not having these half adults or many adults in the same demographic or same area with 12 year olds. So it's kind of, yes, I agree, no, I don't agree, but education is 22 for high school. So I was just wondering why the age would not just go and follow that track. I 100% agree with you. And I think it's brilliant. It's politics as well. We have a lot of opposition. Like they were like, this is literally 18 and 19 has the word teen in it, 20 does it. So maybe we can get 18 and 19 year olds. Oh, I think let's try 18 year olds. And maybe, and let's see how it goes. So like even making it to 21, the 21st birthday is really, really hard, but that's our goal. We do have, like I mentioned, we have a campaign around development appropriate reforms in the adult system. We can't do the whole thing. Like raise the age is about everything from arrests, cracker, prosecution, interrogations, all sorts of things. For us to do the same thing in an adult system, we're doing one thing at a time. That is education. We are trying to say that if you are a young person under the age of 22 for this other bill, you shall have, and you're incarcerated, and again, only incarceration, not all the other steps. You will have a right to be in school six hours a day, every day of the weekends, including summer. That is gonna be a heavy lift because when we do this campaign and we said, well, raise the age, we'll fix it, but you still have the 21 year olds. So yes, that's a very, very key issue. Politically, it's gonna be very, very hard for us to get 21 year olds and adults in raise the age. So that's why we're doing it at two part. Ideally, they would say, we know what? This is too much work. This juvenile system have them, but it do wanna be respectful that DOIS says, if I get a 22 year old at the time of their offense, I won't have much, I'll have like a year maybe to work with them, which is not gonna be enough. So there's some like administrative stuff on the juvenile system as well as the politics. But I'm 100% with you because it would make life easier, but it's... No, thank you. Other questions or comments? I would just like to ask if you can forward me a PowerPoint so I can send it to the commissioners, just to the human rights email, please. I will do that, thank you. Okay, well, thank you so much. I really look forward to delving into all the material. And I'm guessing what you're asking of us is some kind of endorsement that would include one or more of the actions on your action PowerPoint. I just wanted to confirm that. Yes? Yes, that'll be, and I don't know if that's a vote or a discussion, so whatever, I will follow your lead on that, but that is the request. Okay, great, thank you very much. Thanks for coming and speaking with us and for your commitment and work. Thank you all so much and I appreciate your time. We move on to the next agenda item, which is the nomination of the co-chair. I'll just say that as you know, probably I think this is really important and you all do and that's why you're all here. And I'm really looking for good, strong support. So if you'd like to volunteer or nominate someone, please do so, we have a forum. So we can do it today, now. I just wanna say I appreciate and I'm sympathetic to the position you're in, but I have a standing policy of never being a chair or co-chair until I've been on a body for a year because I think that's just absurd. So there's just no way I think I or the other new members should be in the pool, but I'm hoping somebody who's been on the board on the commission longer will raise their hand. Is there an opinion about that before I put forward something? So I am not raising my hand. However, I did have a conversation with Ronnie and for at least the next year, if nominated, I will not decline. But also the commission needs to know my other parameters of meeting times and dates that exist with some of my other responsibilities. I'll leave it at that. Okay. So I called for a nomination of Luke Paywood, good. I don't know if I can nominate as a co-chair, but our members should, and Pamela and Jen advise. Yeah. And I will nominate her if I can. Yeah. I think that you can go ahead and do that. So I hereby nominate Luke Paywood as co-chair of the Human Rights Commission. And I ask for a second. I second. And both, Luke, if you're in agreement, say yes. Raise your hand. No, I don't see Tyler. Right. Oh, there it is. Oh, okay. Thank you, Tyler. Okay. I think we have four of them. I mean, can I vote? And I, yes, you can vote for yourself. We assume you have. Great. Congratulations. And I'm very, very thrilled to have a co-chair. And I appreciate all that experience. I'm exactly the person that the governor said shouldn't be a co-chair, but here I am. You're stuck with me. And but you have lived, who does have the full experience to be a co-chair, I guess. So with that, shall we move on to the next agenda item? Yes. We have a request from Amherst Cinema concerning a trans film series that they're about to put on. Has everyone read what that is? It was in the package. I don't know that that one was put in the package, but I completely got sent to everyone. I just want to talk about that in the agenda. And I also read there was like a couple of pages of things that were going to be going on. It just seemed like- There are some events that Amherst Cinema is leading or holding to sort of make more prominent trans voices. I met Pamela, I talk about this, because she knows more about all this. So I met with the development officer from Amherst Cinema earlier in the week, and they are looking for support from the town of Amherst for the film series they're doing on trans stories in, I believe it's October, September to October. I'm not sure of the exact dates. I have shared their request with a few other departments, the Senior Center Rec, the Crest Department, and the hope is that the four departments will be able to join together to do sponsorship as the town of Amherst. And if that's the case, we're looking to have sponsorship at the $500 level, so that would be $125 from each area. And all of the departments would be listed and the town of Amherst would be listed as a co-sponsor. The reason, or one of the reasons why it came to the HRC is because you have a separate fund that would allow for us to make a contribution. The Senior Center has a friend's account again, so for procurement and financing reasons, it would need to come through the HRC if you're willing to support. So the financial amount at the most would be 125. The support would list the town of Amherst and then the four departments that would be contributing to Amherst Cinema. And I'll say the Senior Center and I tried to work with Amherst Cinema last year on a couple of events and we were not successful, but we are hoping that there will be better collaboration around the promotion of different events in the future. And so we're hoping literally that this will buy us a little goodwill. So I have two concerns. The first concern is if we have reached out to them to for their support of us and it didn't work out and I don't know the particulars why it didn't work out, but then it's kind of interesting that you would come back around and ask us for something to support you. However, I'm hoping that the support is not the Amherst Cinema, but the support is our trends, youth and adults and our community. So that's kind of, I keep saying the positive and the negative in the same statement. The second concern is we pledge 125, the other three entities or two of the three entities or one of the other entities does not. Does that mean that we need to dig into our pockets to give more to make up for the 500 or will the 125 be sufficient regardless? Right, so I have already received a firm yes from the senior center. The rec department is considering it and I have not had a chance to have a conversation with Earl or with Kat from Crest. I feel fairly confident that the four, between the four departments, we will be able to get to $500. And I do also share your first concern around the fact that we, so both Al, the former admin assistant from the senior department and I both reached out to Amherst Cinema and I don't quite understand why we weren't able to get to yes. But I do think that the conversation I had with the development officer was a good one and I think it's gonna be more difficult for them not to be supportive and collaborative with the town around different events when we have shown that we're willing to be supportive of them. So, you know. Other thoughts, just raise your hand or think if you have your hand up and I don't call you. Cause I think I'm not seeing him. I guess my take, oh Tyler. Is there any chance of someone from the cinema coming before the mission or even just before anyone from the town jointly to discuss this? And since right now it sort of seems like we're going off of some pretty general materials that they've provided and more intermediary approach, I think it would be a little easier to address some of these questions if we actually had a representative from the cinema talking to us. Well, I'm sure that I can reach out to the development officer, but I mean, I did have a conversation directly with the development officer. I don't necessarily feel that you would get more information than you're getting from the person and then I'm able to relay. But, you know, we could certainly reach out. I mean, and this is your decision. If you choose not to do it, that's, you know, your decision to decide. What exactly would the money be going towards? I know they wanna bring programs here. Are they trying to give an honorarium to some of the speakers? Are they trying to raise money so folks can go into a film or two for free? I mean, what is it that they're asking? I thought that that information had been sent out to the entire commission and the last page that list what the event sponsorship would be. I don't have it right in front of me, but basically we would be a sponsor of the last event, so the last film in the series if you chose to do it. I did when I spoke with the development officer, say to the officer that the wills, because they were looking for an answer like the last week in August and I said, you know, the wills of municipal government move a little bit slower. So there's no guarantee that I could have an answer by August. So in discussions with the development officer, we came to an agreement that if the town did to decide to go forth with the sponsorship that it would be the fourth event in the series that would give a little bit more time to have all four departments make a decision about support and get that farmed up. If so that would, I mean, it's that at your next meeting which would be in September, there is a possibility that the development officer could appear and you could make a decision. I'm hoping that the other departments will have already reached their decisions by that time. And as I said, you know, the senior center has already given a firm commitment to join in the effort. And it was the senior center that was looking to get assistance from Amherst Center. So they had certainly more at stake than any of the other departments. So my hand is up. At $125, my first inclination was to say, well sure, why not? But Liz, you're asking some fantastic questions and I just reread really quickly what they say sponsorship is about. And it seems like a classic business sponsorship thing. It's like, you give us money and we give you visibility. You get your logo out there, right? So I think it's really, it's an interesting thing to ask a municipality to engage in that kind of marketing. I mean, that's really what the payment is. It seems like a classic marketing thing. So I don't have any opposition to it. I also think Liz's question about, you know, what are we doing to support trans folks in Amherst, you know, the individuals themselves is a really great question. So yeah, now that I look at through this like capitalist frame, I'm like, huh, it's only $125, but huh, I don't know. I don't, you know, we don't have a lot of money. Yeah, I was just looking, I just went back and was reading the whole thing. So it is like a sponsorship and we would get a logo in their brochure and let other people know in the town that we support trans youth and trans adults and whatever. But yeah, I mean, I'm not totally in opposition. Like again, I'm gonna trust, and maybe I shouldn't, but I'm going to trust that, and I hope somebody from their entity is actually goes back and hears these notes. But if we are now giving you a little grain the next time you decide that you can't work with us on something we need from you, that's not gonna look good. And since it's already happened, that is my pause. Though I will not be in opposition if that's what most of the commission would like. Okay, so my view is really that given everything that's been going on with our kids in Amherst, it's really important that this program happen. And maybe I'm too close to the corporate world in my professional life, but basically they're probably having to pay to show these, to acquire these films and show them. And I'm guessing that's where the money is going. It's very hard when there's a small amount of money like this also having been in these shoes. When the donor says, well, I wanna know exactly where my money is going. It's very difficult to point that out. I guess I don't know the history of what they said no to, but my decision about giving would be based on whether it's something that I value giving to. And it wouldn't be based on whether they're giving me that money or not. But I don't know the background to all of this. So I guess I'm inclined personally to just give them the money. I like Tyler's idea a lot of just having them talk to us a little bit more about like, why this? Why now? What's all this about? Like you don't really get that background from their written material. Why these movies? How were they chosen? What is it we're trying to accomplish? Tell you more about what is the substantive commitment of Amherst Cinema to this cause that they're proposing to put forward? Or are they just doing it? Cause it's the thing of the moment. I don't know. I assume it's somewhere in between, but giving is easier if you understand that you're part of this bigger agenda of change or addressing something bad that happened. So that part I sort of see. So shall we just take a vote? Or do you all wanna think about it more? My intonation is to take a vote. And if you say yes, or yes, boss, or Laverne, you haven't said anything. Do you have something you wanna share or? Well, well, don't we have to take a vote? Cause it's the deadlines, the 26th, so. Well, we can wait the next month to take the vote. That's one of the things being discussed. But I would suggest taking a vote now. So we know if there's an issue, we know about it. Are we ready to vote? So I make a motion that the Human Rights Commission allocates $125 towards the series supporting trans community. I hope that's enough. If not, if Pamela, correct me. That's it. We need a second. I'll second. Oh, okay. Laverne. Okay, so all in favor raise your hand. Wait a minute. My hands up. Okay. All right, I think then we're set to go. Just to be sure, would anyone like more information in addition to committing to give the money if we want more information? Liz and Tyler both raised some questions. We can still ask them for that information. To be, say yes, but also, and also ask for more information. Well, I went back and looked at what they're trying to present. So for me, I don't really need any more information. And I only would like to have a discussion again, if in fact, for one of our, whether it's CSSJC or the town or HRC or Cresa, whoever's giving, ask them to support something if there's a negative response to that or not a meeting of the minds, then I would rather have a discussion at that point. But I'm good for now. I don't know about anybody else, only speaking for myself. Tyler, I'm assuming you're good. I haven't said anything. So we move on to the next thing. Next agenda item then. Okay, so it lives reporting on the affordable housing trust. So we have to meet again. We met, oh goodness, I wanna know what the date was. It was the first or the second Wednesday in July around our listening session that we co-sponsored with the Affordable Housing Trust. And Erika is putting together a slate of themes that then we were going to, I think we're meeting again. I gotta ask her. Because a lot of people have been on vacation, of course, but our hope is to make a presentation to the town council and then we were wondering if we should hold off until after the elections because there's a lot of people going in and trying to upseat some of the electors. They're not the electors, the folks that are already seating. So that's the update for now. And again, we're still continuing to look at ways to support folks who need affordable housing in Amherst and surrounding areas. Any questions on that? All right, so Pamela, the HRC bylaw. So I've had a discussion with Paul about the HRC bylaw. He's asked me to put together a chart that would show him clearly what the original language is and what your suggested changes are. He, I mean, he has both that information but it would like it in another format to make it easier for him to review. And I've promised that I would have that to him. He's away on vacation this week. I leave for a vacation tomorrow back in the office on Tuesday. My plan is to give him the chart on Tuesday. And then he will review it and make whatever decisions he's going to make. So it's moving along slowly, but it is moving forward. And then the state of human rights. I think Phillip reported that the town council acknowledged receipts but they have not given us a date on the plans to discuss it. So I am, I'm sorry for interrupting but I received an email from a town council president with a suggested date and I thought that it was her intent to send that to you, Ronnie, to, you haven't received it? No. Okay. So the, I can, I can forward you the email that I received from her. I believe I can do that. I don't know if there's an email. You just tell us the date so everyone knows. I don't quite recall all the dates. But I do know that she did send me an email with dates. And I think that that was the, so I can forward it to you too so that you can be in communication with her. But I know that there was a plan to provide a date for discussion and presentation. So I don't, I'm sorry. I don't recall the exact date, but I can forward you her email. But is it practice if they wanted to communicate to us that they'd like to the co-chair? Well, that's what I, She would write to you, but not, maybe it's time to notify her that Liz is a co-chair and really she should be communicating with both of us. Well, I actually, that's why I'm surprised that you have heard from her because that's, she asked the question about the co-chairs and I provided her with that information. So it was my thinking that she would have communicated with you directly by now. So yeah, that is certainly what she has done in the past. I'm not sure why that hasn't occurred, but that was certainly what was, that was what was relayed to me was her intent was to, was to be in contact directly with you about a date. So as soon as we know the date, we will share with everyone. And I would very strongly urge members of the commission to be present when our report is discussed. I know that a lot of us are new like me. I don't have the background on some of the cases presented, but we should still hear what the town council has to say about it. Thinking about next year. We'll share that with you as soon as we know. And then what's the next one? Community event. Yep, so I don't really know what that is. So I'm passing it to you. So I'm not sure if you all know that there is a number of people that are running for town council and school committee. There's a number of seats being vacated in the school committee and a number of, well, it's an election year for both. On Saturday from 10 to 12 at the Unitarian Universalist Society, 121 North Pleasant Street, there is a meet the candidates. So a number of new candidates. I know Allegra Rice will be there and Martha Toro and some others. If you wanna meet some of the folks that are running for school committee and town council, they will be there at this event. So if anybody's interested. Okay, and now I'm understanding what this is. Are there community events that we should know about that are coming up? Yeah, well, so there, I sent everybody a PDF of a spreadsheet that was last minute added to the packet. So that has a list of all of the ones that the HRC in the past year has been celebrating or have thought about celebrating. The second page I believe has the ones for DEI. And then the third page has a list of just the different events that I had a calendar a while ago and added it to the calendar that Pamela and I created of different cultural and heritage events. So my guess it would be is it's really up to you guys to take a look at it, but that's, what is there? Because several of us are new, it would really be helpful to know a little bit about what the HRC has done with regard to these events in the past. This is something we've taken a stand on. And then just for other people's information, we have talked about having some kind of retreat to sort of orient ourselves a little bit because a lot of us are new. And to be clear on our goals and our priorities as we go into the next year. So I'm also thinking of that. Oh, at the retreat, yeah. So you do want me to share screen? I can do that. And Pam, while she's doing that Pamela, would you like coming with me? She's moving. I was just gonna suggest that at a minimum we finalize the date for the Latinx Heritage event and then perhaps you might consider what dates you would want for the retreat, but Latinx Heritage is coming up and then there's a little bit of a gap between some of the other HRC events, but that's coming up very quickly. So we do need to finalize that date. And what happens on that date? What do we... So last year, the Latinx Heritage event was held in Kendrick Park where there's a hope to have the event on the town common. There is generally a bit of a conflict with the town common during this time of year because of the farmer's market. At last year's event there, which was an event that was free and open to the public, there was food, there was dancing, there were musical performance. There were some tables set up from, I believe from the school department had different tables. So there were a number of different activities and it lasted, I want to say from 11 until four. Jennifer will probably remember the exact timeframe, but members of the HRC were there to, of course, help set up, help to serve food, help with organizing the entertainment that was there and then of course clean up as well. And last year it was on a Saturday, if the event is held this year on a Saturday, it would have to be in the late afternoon, early evening because of the farmer's market or the other option to have it on town common would be to have it on a Sunday. So and Jennifer can fill in more information about that. Yeah, so last year we had it at Kendrick Park because not only was there the farmer's market, but there was another event on the common too. So the sooner we know, the faster we can check the dates with the DPW to see if the common is available. And then we also would need to pick a rain location and we also need to check in with the school to see if they're gonna participate and if those dates work. Thanks. So the dates we're looking at are these that you have on the list here, 9.16, 9.30, 10.7, 10.14. Yeah, if the common is available and we do it on Saturday, we would have to start after 2.30 and then I don't know, it probably gets dark around six o'clock by that time of the year. So you could do like two to five. Mm-hmm. Are there comments on the dates? Are there dates when people want to do it and can help? Or dates when you cannot? What time is the town common? What time is the farmer's market over? The farmer's market's over at two o'clock. So for us to be able to be there and set up, we wouldn't be able to start it too if they're breaking down their stuff at two. No, that's why I said like 2.30. Yeah, there's a section of it that they don't use, but if you're gonna have music, it's hard to put music on that. I'm gonna reference that it's the southern end, closest to Route 9, because you have so much traffic there. So it's hard to put any kind of music or entertainment there because there's more traffic on that side than there is on the north side. It just seems to me that it would be more feasible to have it on a Sunday as opposed to a Saturday, if in fact we have to compete. And just because they end it to doesn't mean they're not gone by 2.30 and we're starting at 2.30. I just can't see that change over happening that quick for us to start at 2.30. And in fact, they're not gone. When I look, there's all sorts of lingering after the market. So I think it would be hard to start at 2.30 even if we want to be in that state. So Deb is raising her hand. I'm really, somewhere between disappointed and upset that September 16th is on this list. It's Rosh Hashanah. There's lots of dates that aren't Jewish holidays that could be on the list. Rosh Hashanah is both the 16th and 17th. The 30th is Sukkot, both the 30th and the next day. The 7th is a lesser, is also a holy day, Shmini Atser would let less people go. The 14th is free. The 20, I'm not sure why the 23rd and 24th were on the list if we are including Saturdays because there's issues with Shabbat, but there's no holidays on those two days. So I'm assuming that this is what the majority wanted. And I guess what this raises is a curiosity about does the majority always rule or are there criteria by which we make decisions that allow for exceptions to majority rule because as all of us know who are members of populations that are not majority, majority rule doesn't always acknowledge or accommodate our needs and interests. So I just wanna add quickly that it's only running from 9, the Hispanic Heritage Month runs from 9, 15 to 10, 15. That's why the other two dates aren't there. And I apologize for not- September 23rd, September 23rd is not there. We can do it at September 23rd and 24th is not listed. Is there something in conflict there? Because Hispanic Heritage Month runs from September 15th to October 15th. September 23rd and September 24th. There's two weeks between 9, 16 and 9, 30 that does not take into account for September 23rd and 24th. Yeah, well, we can aim for the 23rd if that works best for everyone. It doesn't work best for me because I'm busy somewhere else, but not to say that it shouldn't happen on that day. It just doesn't work for me. I don't know why the 23rd's not on there. I think we should respect Holy Days. I don't know what majority actually are referring to Deborah, but I do believe we should respect Holy Days. So I'm trying to say that's where we should go at the 23rd, 24th. And the 14th also works great. Or the 14th, 15th, whatever those two days are. Those are actually the best. So since Liz has a conflict, maybe that works best for everyone. The reason I said majority is because all the dates weren't listed. So I was assuming- Oh, no. That was no. That was an oversight there. Wait, I think that, no, but I think that there is something on the 23rd and I just have to give me a minute to figure out what it was. But I'm not 100. I'm pretty sure there was something on the 23rd that was going on. And I think if there's a cleanup day or something similar to that with the community participation officers. So then we still have the 14th, which would be within the- Oh, wait, wait, back up a second. Cause I think the 14th might be the fall foliage, ABC fall foliage walk. So let me go back and see in my emails, hold on. I'm just going to say that it is really stressful to try to pick a date where A, there's not other conflicting events. And Deborah, I'm sorry, we most definitely will, I will pay more attention to the holy days for you. I apologize or for everyone for that fact. So I apologize for that one. And I just, I have to say it's very hard to pick a date. Yeah. I did check the fall foliage is the 14th. I'm just- It is. Back to the Sundays. Like what about Sunday the 15th? So last year when we had it at Kendrick Park, we had the ABC fall foliage walk in the morning. I completed the walk and then went down to Kendrick Park for Latino heritage celebration. So we did have both on the same days, but again, if we're trying to fit the common, the 14th would not work. So I already booked. So my view also on this is that competing other events are not the same as a holy day if you have a religion, but which is the holy day that's different from competing other events. I feel like holy days are, mind you, I'm an atheist, but I've been taught this. I know how important holy days are to people and that's not the same as just having an event. So I'd like to respect the holy days and work around what other days we have, whatever they are. Even if they do conflict with fall walk, but we can do both, it sounds like we could do both and we should. And if they don't overlap, yeah. Well, the fall walk is on the common and it's the entire day. So we can't have the common on the 14th. And that's the reason why, if I'm recollecting, the reason why we had it at Kendrick Park last year was because of the fall walk and the common. That was already on the common. So I do agree with you to respect people's religious affiliation, but we're looking at a time where we need to have an event in the 14th is not a good day. A lot of people participate in the ABC fall foliage work. Yeah, so this is why it's so important for us to have the dates as soon as possible, if we're gonna do it this way, because not only sometimes, I understand what you're saying about the difference between the holy days and the competing events, but it's hard when you have a competing event and the majority of the people, you're losing out to people at some of those competing events because the ABC fall foliage is, you know what I mean? If we're trying to have it at the common is different than if it's like, you know. So I don't understand. I don't understand why we are keep focusing on where there's conflict and ignoring where there isn't. So far we have not heard that there's a conflict on the 15th or the 24th for that matter. So I'm just trying to ascertain why we're spending our time on the places where there is conflict. I'm not available the weekend of the 14th, so. And Jennifer, have you been able to figure out why the 23rd and 24th was not part of the equation? I think that there was a goal to try to push the events on to, I don't even know what to say about that, but to Saturday as opposed to Sunday. And so that's what I was asked, you know, that's what I did. And so the 23rd, there is a cleanup day scheduled. It was hard for me to look at my calendar when I had the screen share, because you guys were all going to have the screen share up. But. And was the push Saturday from people saying that Saturday was their preferred day or where did that come from? Like people on the commission, I mean. So that, as you guys will recall, I sent an email to everyone asking for their preferred dates. And several of you replied, several people did not reply and there were definitely, there are conflicts among the individuals who did reply. So it looks like, well, one, I had a question, which is Jennifer, do we know what time the cleanup is? Is it all day on the 23rd? And I guess from based on the conversation, it seems like maybe Sunday the 24th would be the best day for the majority of the people who are in attendance at this meeting. So the Sunday the 24th. The cleanup day is scheduled from eight to 12, but I, so I won't, I can't, I don't get into both of them. So you guys are welcome to do it on the 23rd. I won't be able to attend. Before we decide that Tyler has his hand up. Tyler, go for it. Do I have my hand up? Yes. Oh, my computer was saying that it wasn't. Did that get rid of it? Okay, yeah. Yeah, okay. Because I don't think that I have a conflict with any of the dates, at least that I know of right now. Although the start of the semester is pretty hectic for me, but I don't think that I have any conflicts that I know of. So. And I guess I want to go back to, I know I've just heard at least four people say, Saturday's problematic because on the common, there's the farmer's market and you can't have access to it before too, at the earliest, maybe later. And so I've just confused again about why Saturday is being focused on if there's a desire to have it on the comments. If it's gonna be somewhere else, then that's a different structure. I mean, I've been juggling these things and that's how events end up on a Sunday. That's otherwise I'm gonna have to say, as Pamela did that she sent something out and out of the group of people who responded, more people responded that Saturday was a better day. Outside of that, I, you know, that was it. So. So it's fine, it's going on a Sunday. Yeah, I also could do Sunday. I mean, I don't know which day I said, but if we're working with such a narrow window, I could do Sunday as well. I may have said Sunday, but I could have said Saturday. I'm willing to be flexible. To find the day. Laverne, did you say you could do Sunday? Is that the weekend you said you wouldn't be here? The 24th, Sunday the 24th. October of October 14th. October. I can do Sunday. I just know I would prefer Saturday, but Sunday is fine. Sunday the 24th you'll be here. So it looks like Sunday the 24th works for everyone, except. Jen, did you say that's a problem for you? The 24th is not a problem. The cleanup is on the 23rd. Okay, awesome. It sounds like we've landed on a day. The next question is, who's going to take the lead on this? So Jennifer and I had said before that we would try to take the lead on this first event to give the commission time to get acclimated. So if we can then have time to set a date for your retreat and have everyone bring their calendars and go through the events and we can go through the explanation, but we'll take the lead on this. Of course, we'll accept any help that we can get, but we'll try to take the lead on putting this event together. I am definitely volunteering to help. I live so close to the column, it's easy for me. Happy to help. Okay, anyone else want to volunteer right now? Dude, we choose a time because I will be with the family center on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, helping it with the backpacks. And I can talk to Dr. Gravara about having her dancing crew there this year as well, because they were fabulous last year. Well, they're fabulous all the time, but yeah, I will see her. So if I know a time, I could ask her about her group participating. Jennifer, do you have a suggestion for time for Sunday? Well, my next question would be, I guess it depends on what the group would like to do. So if you want to serve like, usually those things music and food. So you have to kind of design it. I've spoken to a few people in the community who gave suggestions of having food trucks and letting people pay for their food or we can do like last year where we went and bought the food. So you should think about that. You should also probably think about what, like if we need staging some kind of, like what the performers other than the dancers from the high school might want to do just to see what our other needs are first. But I would say if we're gonna feed, if we're gonna provide lunch or people are gonna buy lunch, then I would say starting 11 to two, 11 to three, somewhere in that timeframe. If you just wanna do finger foods and like snacks, then you can change it to one, two o'clock to three or four. So it really depends on what you guys would like to do. Can I maybe make a suggestion of just doing one to three and doing the food trucks and perhaps you and I can take a look at our budget to see if we're able to work out with food trucks like a flat fee or discounted price that we can, so that we might be able to assist. One of the things that I really liked about that you were able to do for the AAPI was to get local vendors to go sort of 50% in, like the town did 50% and then they did 50% of the pricing. So I think if we agree on the time, maybe you and I can work on the fine details. Okay, I just, yeah. If you feel that that's otherwise, please say so, but I'm thinking that if we can get agreement on the time, then the two of us can work on the other details. So I'm just keeping an eye on the clock and we're at eight minutes to eight o'clock. Was your suggestion, I think that it would be great if you could just keep us in the loop because we're only meeting once a month and ask for help and then any of us can jump in. And as far as the retreat is concerned, I don't know what your suggestion that we should look at it at another time without calendars in hand or that we should talk about it now. It looks like setting a date is going to be hard. There are also doodle pool calls that you can use. I love those things. I don't know if everyone else does, but it's, you know. Yeah. So I think we could probably based on the conversation that we have now look for to send out a doodle poll for us. I think we met on a Sunday last year. Am I right, Jennifer, that we met on a Sunday? Correct. Yeah. So and we basically went from nine until one, but my suggestion actually is that if folks are really able to do a longer period of time, that we try to devote a longer period of time to the day. We actually, the group was able to get a lot accomplished during the last retreat and I can send out on Tuesday the minutes. I mean, we didn't take formal minutes, but sort of the summary of what the discussion was, but much as you've described, Ronnie, we talked about like the group talked about what their goals were going to be for the upcoming year. One of the primary things was the bylaws. And so I think that was a real successful process, but I think we can probably next week send out a doodle poll with a couple of dates for Sundays in October. And we know to stay away from that 15th Laverne, because you weren't, aren't going to be available. And then just select a date and, um, and select a time for the retreat. So, okay. Well, so is there anything more we need to do with this? Or hopefully at the retreat, there's only one other thing that I see for this challenge. Oh, they can do this people's day too. All right. Well, maybe this is the guy. And then the human rights day. Right. Jennifer does have some information about human rights day. I know that you're coming to the close, close to eight o'clock, maybe she can briefly talk about that. And then I just want to confirm like, is everyone okay with Latinx heritage from, um, from, you know, 12 to three, or do you want a different time frame? That was just a suggestion by, by, by me. It is totally up to this group to make a decision. Raise your hand if you're okay with it. Tyler. Okay, great. So I think everyone is on board with that. I didn't want to leave without discussing the question, just a quick discussion of the question that Deborah brought up about the social justice committee and whether there's a role for HRC in that. And let me just open it up and Deborah, maybe you can give your thoughts first since it's your item. Can I just go back for one second? One quick second. Last year. The retreat was on October 2nd. So if we stay to that time frame, it would be October 1st. That's it. Okay. Moving on. Okay, Deborah, the floor is yours. I love your desire to get things done. I just have to say. I, yeah, I'm really asking for guidance as to whether or not it, it would be an appropriate role for the HRC to speak on behalf of the HRC or speak in allyship or accomplish with the committee about not having a forum and not nominations, not being moved forward. And if we do think that's appropriate, how do we do that? I mean, I don't, you know, I don't know what the protocols or the process would be. Would we write a letter to Paul? I mean, should we do that? Are we talking about the CSSJC? Yes. The fact that they really become dysfunctional. They cannot dysfunctional, but that they cannot function without a quorum and that there is the perception that not enough is being done or not enough is being done fast enough to help them get a quorum. Pamela, you have your hand up inform us, please. So first, just to, to the first question. The two groups worked really hand in hand last year and worked very closely, wrote letters of support on various issues, cosponsored events. So I think it's certainly appropriate for the HRC to take that role. And it was the role that, that, that occurred last year. Often there were joint letters that were, that were drafted and reviewed by both, by both boards and then sent to town council. So that's totally appropriate. At the last CSSJC meeting, there was a lot of discussion about the fact that they do not have a quorum and Jennifer, there were, there are a number of questions raised about why there hasn't been, why there hasn't been interviews, how many applications there were. So I think these facts are just important to know and you can do with them what you will. There are, are, there were eight applications for the CSSJC. Six of them are also joined applications for the HRC. And there was a discussion about why were, about why there was a delay or why both, why those applications were being joined together. And I did share that in my experience over the last year, many people who apply for the HRC also apply for the CSSJC and vice versa. And since there are vacancies on both boards, I think the, the, the, the inclination from the town managers was to have one interview session where all of the individuals could be interviewed. And then they would be appointments made to the various boards. I do know that there was an attempt to schedule some interviews for both boards that would have occurred on Monday, but unfortunately I am out of the office on, on Monday. And I simply know that because Angela sent who does the scheduling and who was out for the last two weeks sent an invite for the, for those interviews. And then I'm sure looked at my calendar and saw that I'm out on Monday. So I know that they are, there are some efforts to, um, you know, to get them to have the interviews and there would be interviews for both the HRC and the CSSJC. I see that it was, sorry rescheduled for the 28th. So we may have a full house for the next meeting, which is nice. But I'm wondering about these interviews and whether there aren't any substitutes, you know, like, does it have to be these senior people like the town manager and you personally, or can there be someone else in your place or his place? You know, it seems like you all would have so much to do and there are so many committees. So I think it's by bylaw Jennifer, please weigh in, but I think that the, the appointment are by bylaw have to be done by the town manager. So I that I think that's why he's a president at each of the of the interviews. And I think the role that Jennifer and I have, like I think various staff do can be interchanged. So if I wasn't able to make it, I'm sure it would be perfectly fine for Jennifer to be in its staff liaison. I've sat on the interviews for, for HRC and for the disability advisory access committee. And when that committee start, when I started in the town last year, that committee much had three vacancies and it took pretty much most of the year to get them to the point where they are now fully, you know, they have a full commission or a full committee where all of, there are no vacancies on, on that. And there was some turnover. I think not to provide excuses for the CSS JC vacancies, but there were, there were a large number of vacancies at all at the same time. And, and at least one, probably two were not expected. So. So maybe I should just ask quickly for raising up hands or an expression of opinion about whether we should send a letter say to the town manager. They're expressing concern about and or something else. What, what kind of support should be to be sent support. And then if we say yes, you can figure out what we want to say. So if you think we should somehow a, you know, have a foot forward and expression of support, could you raise your hand. Can I just say something first. So it seems to me today is the 16th. And we have interviews set for the 28th. Is that right, Jennifer? Yes. So I am looking at one, two, three, four, five of us on the Human Rights Commission where they're supposed to be nine. Correct. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, I know Pamela Jennifer. Okay. So my, and I do not know how many vacancies. That's the good word vacancies. There are on the CSS JC. And my assumption. Is that there is at least 75% of the folks that you interview may take up some of these vacancies. Yes, no, maybe. So if that is the truth. And they have already been. I don't know what that word is like vetted of somebody's look over their applications and see that they qualify. But we have to have some interviews and stuff like that. And they're set for the 28th. Are we being premature. Of pushing the envelope, if you will. And if they don't happen on the 28th, will we then make a hard line stance? That's the question. So we have the questions. Go ahead, Debbie. Yet again, I love your question. And I could go either way. I don't think we have anything to lose by saying something now, because. The committee was so concerned about the delay. And so standing in solidarity with them. Just with that. I'm thinking a two sentence thing, you know, the human rights commission stands in solidarity. With this, I'm trying to get the acronym, my CS JC. In calling for rapid decision making on qualified new members so they could have a quorum. One sentence, right? And I'm totally happy to wait. So what you just said has a different thought in my process. Which is. Understanding. That there are. I don't know how to write this. So Ronnie write it down or Pamela or somebody. Understanding that there are interviews set. For August 28. That would then. Satisfy. The number of members on. The HRC and the CSS JC. We would like to. I don't know if it's put on notice or make sure I don't know how the word, how the word is, but we would just like to. To do something, something, something where you all know that we are serious about you all need to do this. Post haste. By getting qualified. Members on each of these committees. And I don't know exactly how to put that. Yeah, I would say we urge that you expeditiously ensure that qualified members are nominated for both. Or I don't know if that's the right word or appointed or appointed to both committees. To satisfy our. Yeah, yeah. Look at that drafting in the moment. I'll be agreeing to send one now or we send one now saying. I would say send one now, you know, and lead with. Understand that. So let me. We are urgently. I'm requesting that. Whatever Deborah just said. Yeah. Let's just let's circulate a draft. So everybody's okay with the words and be done with it. Who wants to. Pamela, do you want to, do you have it or. Deborah, do you want to send it out and you and those. Figure it out and then send it out to the rest of us. How about you and I. We're just going on vacation. I'll get it out to Ronnie. Okay. So I took down. As quickly as I could. What you stated. I will send that to you. I will need to remind you though, that. You. Need to send information to Jennifer and that you're not supposed to be deliberating. And voting. On things outside of your meeting. So you might want to. To make a motion and. And come to some agreement about. Your. I move that the draft language, which has been. Put forth today be approved. And it will. It may be modified only for copy editing. So. Jennifer, what do you think? I'm not, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that they cannot send it, send out the message to the members of the commission for us to concur because that would be voting. Yes, that's what she said. Wait a minute. How about if Deborah sends it out and we send our comments to Jennifer individually. And then Jen puts it together. Cause now we've agreed that we will put the statement out and then the state. And that Deborah will draft the statement. And send it to Jen. And we send. Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt. We can say this more strongly. We have agreement on what we want to say. I really have to strongly say as an attorney. That word smithing for copy editing purposes, which means grammar and punctuation. And maybe assuring that tense. Agrees, you know, from one end of the sentence to the other is not something you need to vote on. So you guys can't make any. Well, I'll let it be at that, but the town particularly does not like it. It seems like you guys already pretty much know what you want to say. And they could just give you the flexibility to draft it. And you could send it to me. And then that could just be, you know, the commissioners have trust that you will stick by your word with what you're writing. And then that's just that. Right. And it doesn't have to move. I can go with that. I love the motion. That Deborah draft a letter. To. I want to say Professor Backelman, but that's not his. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I want to say Professor Backelman, but that's not his title. Okay. So I'm interrupting. I need to go. It's Deborah who's who is drafting the letter that's being sent to Jennifer. That is being circulated by Jennifer. With all the to all the committee members. Am I right? Of course. Jen. Yes. Okay. And it won't be another vote. Okay. So there's a type of. Now we'll catch the type of Deborah. So, um, the, I just, I have to say two things quickly. One is that the two co-chairs used to. Pretty much just were the ones that wrote anything that we were supporting. It was Ben and Philip and the commissioners had basically given them trust for the most part of it. The other thing that I wanted to say is that I, I have to announce that I was the human rights. commission chair from North Hampton reached out today with several different kinds of questions, but is in hope that on December 10th, when we celebrate the Declaration of Human Rights, which it'll be the 75th anniversary that we can work with North Hampton and East Hampton to have a joyous across the bridge. And so therefore I will email the two co-chairs now that we have them, the contact information for Diane. Thank you for that on our next agenda, agenda for September or our return to the one? Both. Okay. And so does that mean that you would like me or Ronnie to draft the letter? As opposed to- No, not this time. No letter. Figure out how you want to do it next time, but- Okay. But right now, I think it's because we're just both devouring and that's fine. Okay. One last question. Did y'all's office move yet? Yes. So now you're in the base community center instead of in- So does the commission know that? I'm not sure who you're referring to as the commission. Did we know that? Right. So I didn't know that- So Ronnie is trying to leave. She needs to get out of the meeting, but just as a last word, we have moved into temporary office space on the second floor of the Baying Center. If you come off the elevator, we are to the left of the Crest Department in temporary spaces. And don't take the stairs because you can't get in through the stairwell. Right. What? You have to have a key code for the stairs. Ah, okay. Just so you don't walk up and then have to walk back down. Our next meeting date then is September- What is the date? I don't have a- 20th? Our next meeting date is September 20th. And with that, I'm calling this meeting of the human rights commission to close. So we just need to say the time. The time is 8.30am. Thanks. I second. Thank you all. Bye. Take care, everybody. Stay safe out there. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Bye.