 here next to me just because I know sometimes it's hard to hear it's good idea thank you it's just hard because there anybody would like to make public comment at this time you'll be fine go ahead Hilary just Andrew we we had a gentleman you know sure can you state your name at the beginning of public comment too yes I am Tyler LaGrange of Rotetown I came here to do what's going on White River Unified District board member draws higher online post-spring crowd meeting it was front page of the local paper and I was like what's going on you know I read through it turns out it was primarily one lady getting mad that a school board member was arguing on Facebook with some online instigators it was so if you've been on the south or else in billboard Facebook group which I recognize some people that have you know you know the Judah Brew so he likes to post the latest right-wing manufactured outrage and a good chunk of this post draw plenty of iron from the local community so if arguing online with Jude is grounds for not being on the school board the swim there can be swim pickings for school board members around here because people like to argue with you so for me I missed a lot of the context originally because I blocked you which is the right thing to do when you're having problems with someone online and you don't want to have arguments with people online you block them it's the recommended way to avoid discussions you don't want to be involved but I did a little digging after these two articles I made an online post on that I didn't like the canceled culture mentality of you know trying to get someone kicked off the school board for some things she posted online so only after Kate Jarvis replied to my post did I realize that actually I knew Kate Jarvis she prepared our she was one of the real estate agents we worked with when we moved to well two years ago she prepared our comparative market analysis but didn't focus on school board members so it didn't seem to be big issue obviously at the time so we have a small back and forth on Facebook about this because I had a few details wrong I used her a couple things wrong but then she tried to deny that she was trying to get someone picked off the board which obviously is questionable and then she said Kate is entitled to her own opinions I agree I pointed out that we all are including Shannon but I was blocked by Kate for just pointing that out so my wife was blocked too we were trying to find out get more context about it others could still see the comments because I was getting notifications about this comment but I couldn't read them anymore just so I'm not sure she just blocked us or went private but why did she do this she doesn't want people to see her contradicting opinions while formally filing a complaint against somebody defending their opinions and if Kate would have just blocked Shannon when she didn't like what Shannon was saying or better yet blocked Jude is the person that should be blocked around the town no we certainly wouldn't be here today and instead she escalated this and I'm digging through Facebook trying to figure out what the context is because this printout is missing a ton of content it just has a couple of negative comments that she haven't said but missing will lead up to it but so after more digging if we're going to go down the path of getting school board members picked off the board for nebulous conflicts of interest I think our next target should be Chris Jarvis because Chris has multiple posts about how climate change is not really a big deal right which you know you can argue with that we can we can discuss that if we want to but that's not why we're here at the same time he's literally sitting on the school board discussing electric buses and grants for electric buses and other energy related income and climate change adjacent policies that affect our schools in our budget so that sounds like a more questionable conflict of interest okay I think it's been three minutes so if you wouldn't mind wrapping up yeah so but honestly you know I sat through the last meeting I sat through the whole thing listen to everybody and everybody in here behave professionally and focus entirely on performing the tasks that they were elected to perform having some diverse or strong opinions on the board is not a negative aspect of the board and in fact it's it's a positive to have people having different different point of views and different discussions so thank you Shannon for sticking up for the LGBTQ kids and thank you Chris for serving the community and everyone of the kids thank you all for serving the community everyone the kids and the faculty thank you Hillary I think you had your hand raised sorry we're juggling bedtime at the same time as this meeting so my husband's gonna take bedtime tonight so I'm Hillary Hoffman I'm resident of Royalton I have four kids total one who just graduated from White River Valley High School two years ago and then I have three kids who are still in a high school and the elementary school over in Bethel and there's a lot that that I want to say tonight in three minutes I probably won't be able to say everything that I'd like to say but I echo what I heard from the previous speaker I missed their name but I wanted to echo that I think diversity of opinion on the school board is a good thing and I think we have a school board right now that represents the diversity of opinions in our community we clearly have a community that has strong opinions on the issue that gave rise to this complaint and many other issues including maybe climate change and electric buses and I think that I if the board decides to start taking actions against board members for speaking in their individual capacity whether it's on Facebook or you know in person at the co-op or on the town green that that is just a problematic road to go down and one that I think would be you know I think a lot of us disagree with certain members of the school board about certain issues and to me that doesn't merit taking any kind of formal action especially if that action involves curtailing the school board members ability to speak especially in their individual capacity so I wanted to say that and then I also wanted to just speak as a parent of kids in the district and on behalf of kids in the district who are LGBTQ I know these kids these are actual kids human beings that we're talking about and so in these Facebook discussions and in these school board meetings I think a lot of this debate has become more about like the political views or policy perspectives of parents adults other members of the community but at the heart of all of this is our kids and our friends kids and our kids friends and their parents and especially for the trans kids I think they're facing they now know that they're facing a community that's incredibly hostile to them and that challenges their very identity so I just wanted to express that I support the way the school district the teachers the staff and the administration and the board have navigated this incredibly challenging issue in a way that protects them and safeguards them and safeguards their rights to privacy and their rights to their identity I support that I support Shannon and her advocacy specifically with respect to those issues and I would just strongly encourage the board to dismiss this complaint or take whatever action is necessary to end this end the discussion of the conflict of interest involving Shannon thanks thank you Hillary we have someone a hand up here okay go ahead or you can do it on there you just got sure so Kate Jervis I'm a resident of Woodstock my daughters attend Bethel and Royalton school I'm gonna speak in regards to Tyler LaBrange's comments just in defense of my name and my professional career so Tyler I you're correct in the fact that I did represent you and welcomed you into the community when I helped you to buy your home in Royalton I did not mention any conflict of interest with our school board because there was no conflict and nor do I involve that in my professional manner let's see for you to bring that here tonight you know it's crossing a line I am a professional I'm a licensed professional as is Shannon so I'm held to an ethical conduct and a professional conduct so I have to be careful of what I say and how I conduct myself publicly so there are certain things that are not allowed to be said when you made certain comments about me publicly that I was a mother or not a mother I was a member of Woodstock a resident of Woodstock I was not a mother I had no children in the district right you moved here from out west this year I believe two years ago I've lived here for 17 years and I have a 20 year old a 14 year old and a 12 year old daughter who have attended these schools since birth so for you to come here and judge me and say I was a resident of Woodstock who had no right to speak about the schools here or to I forget how you worded it try to have a school board member fired for no right I chose to block you and your wife instead of defending myself against your false claims because I had no interest in debating with you or fighting with you publicly on Facebook as a professional I said you know I'm not gonna go back and forth with him he was a he was a client he's bought his house welcome to the community it had nothing to do with you not seeing my complaint because my complaint was not presented to Facebook my complaint was presented to the board the White River Valley Supervisor Union Board and the White River Valley Unified District Board not to you not to Facebook and not to Shannon's friends okay so I have no need to defend myself to you that's all and you are blocked and you will remain blocked I have no interest in being friends with you on Facebook thank you thanks so anybody else would like to speak at this time I'm Courtney Collins I'm a 14 year resident in Randolph and 15 year employee of Vermont law school married with two children currently in Randolph school district I'm speaking in my own capacity and not on behalf of my employer I'm well connected in our local communities and have known Shannon since our boys attended preschool together at Magic Mountain Children's Center in South Royalton I am also a mother to a trans identifying middle school child and as a queer person myself I'm an active member of Vermont's LGBTQ plus community I didn't expect to attend one of your meetings but since my name has been brought into the situation I thought it only fair that you hear from me directly I speak in support of Shannon nowhere in the online exchange did Shannon state or imply she was speaking on behalf of the school board in fact she provided detailed information about the quorum necessary for the board to act proving that she herself cannot represent your board in an individual capacity what Shannon did do was respond online exactly how we want our allies to do so she provided facts and information to comments made in good faith but these screenshots are missing she also took on the exhausting task of rebudying against the weaponized trolling taking place screenshots of these comments are also missing if there needs to be an examination of this online discussion then the board should review it in its entirety because otherwise her responses are out of context and you're presented with a false narrative it really isn't difficult to discern between the genuine discussion versus online harassment she was responding to the last thing any of you should do is remain silent in response to anti-LGB to hate these comments are unacceptable in our communities especially when directed toward children local and national leaders are repeatedly calling for all of us to hold people accountable for their lies and hatred towards LGBT people just last week senator Bernie Sanders said quote the terrible shooting in Colorado Springs this weekend is a direct result of the hateful and violent rhetoric that has been allowed to grow in this country we must stand united with the LGBTQ plus community and speak out against bigotry wherever we find it unquote this is your responsibility as allies so yes I am absolutely delighted when an ally like Shannon uses her time energy and free speech to stand up against and challenge transphobic comments but as a queer person myself it's deeply disturbing to discover that my private post on my private social media account none of which is public was made available to someone in this community to then turn around and attack her support targeting the people standing up for LGBTQ plus children and not the people spreading intentionally harmful transphobic online comments is by definition transphobic behavior filing to remove Shannon from this board and get her fired from her job and also revoke her business license and also get myself fired from my job and also get my husband fired from his job is a pattern of stalking and intimidation let me be very clear as a queer person and parent to a gender expansive child manipulating my words and threatening my livelihood for supporting Shannon and trans rights is a hate attack against me and my family in conclusion I invite the board to consider this do your constituents want you to tone police a woman's voice and debate the obligation to speak up or would they rather you focus on the actual task at hand of supporting the safety and equitable treatment of all our kids in our schools I thank the board members for your time and for your hard work okay wait until everybody's had a chance to speak I think you'll have a chance to speak later okay Scott trout strafford Vermont just to rebut something I guess heard the Bernie Sanders is blaming very right-wing the Christian the usual suspects they're always blamed for the hate crimes a person was arrested in Colorado Springs with binary self identifies as trans so the throw that as an NRA Republican guy that created the hate crime is absolute a full feather so to speak anyways let's get to the heart of the matter here there's a complaint on deck that you people are handling regarding inappropriate behavior in the public sphere by a school board member named Shannon Higgins what I've seen thus far on our line line postings is basically she's the vanguard of canceled culture here she's used foul language online she's threatened people she's basically conducted herself inappropriately and under the Vermont Constitution the code of conduct for professionals in this state and state elected officials she's far beyond the pale on that I am in full support of this item right here to remove her on the conflict of interest and let me digress a little bit here since we're all going far a fleet field you're talking about her real estate endeavors let me just talk about a little thing that's going on here in South Rail to the schools which is the the elephant in the room that nobody's talking about I just heard all these voices crying out for LGBTQ tolerance and transgender kids and other being suppressed and oppressed the reality is the bullying is going the other way the normal kids the Christian kids kids that are normal are being buffalowed and bullied and assaulted inside this school system for not agreeing with the trans agenda or coming from households that are not in full complement with the lgbq agenda so let me just put this to the board this is just the tip of the iceberg those of us now become politically active in this community because of the actions here and the actions we're seeing displayed in this complaint against when your school board members we aren't going away as a matter of fact we're going to dig in deep here my position and I think I'd have to speak for a lot of the people in the community who are parents here who will not attend these meetings because they're fearful of retaliation in the school system not just by teachers but also by administrators that they have to have people in here speaking out against some of the madness and this complaint is full of madness is full of language every place it's f this guy and shove it to this person and cancel culture is alive and well here there are people there's things in this complaint that weren't included that there are local businesses here that have just spoken out against something as simple as the CRT program that is or isn't in the school system here and they've been people in the lgbq community have taken upon themselves to go and start writing master reviews about the business and organizing boycotts so anyway my three minutes is almost up I'm just here to say we're not going away this issue is a lot larger than one complaint against one school board member it's much larger than that involves bullying it involves the politicization of the school system it involves getting away from the three hours and instead advancing an agenda we're not going to tolerate it and right here and right now at this point in time in south rail 10 for my it's full wall and it stops with us thank you for your time anybody else who would like to make public comment that this time came out of hazard yet yeah Kate if you want to say one last thing and then we're I think you'll get a chance to speak as part of the complaint do you want to just do it no I was going to address the claims and all these you know they're being set on Facebook and everything else so why not address them as they come Andrew Courtney Collins attack well don't you want me to answer to you know so Courtney Collins the only reason I had brought the comments that were made publicly was because there was a Facebook post made on October 7th after I attended a school board meeting in regards to concerns that Shannon had made publicly so Courtney Collins said update hey mutuals please be aware that Kate Jarvis is a transphobic it took my post to try and discredit Shannon for standing up for our children you may want to reconsider your friendship with her or with me this was following the post that said appreciation post for Shannon moral Cornelius who was absolutely destroyed a transphobic asshole on a local Facebook page let the record show that her voice prevailed I had gorged myself on his pathetic male tears okay yes Kate you had this in your complaint so we have seen these comments okay did you have anything else you wanted to add or can we are you asking me to stop speaking Andrew well I think it would be good if we could move on to the complaint okay um looks like we have one more public comment I guess and then we'll move on to the complaint Sharon go ahead my apologies for speaking late I'm a mother of three my oldest daughter who identifies LGBTQ just graduated last year about the Victorian and I have two other children going through the school system here in the Bethel like in middle school in the high school and I grew up here in Vermont and quite honestly I'm terrified by what's happening whatever the disagreements we've always had it's always been about so coming together as a community and supporting our children should be utmost the most important part if they're legitimately is bullying against children in the school regardless of what they're saying that shouldn't happen but hate shouldn't be accepted either so if there's hate speech that should be put down hate speech should never be acceptable at school regardless of who's saying it and how they're saying it supporting our children I just want to restate what Hillary said earlier this is about our kids and supporting our kids and this is the society that we live in and whatever your point of views or religious beliefs are students who are transgender exist they're not going away and we need to support them so teaching the three Rs in the school system is reliant on us giving them a safe space to learn because children do not learn when they do not feel safe and if there is bullying going in any direction yes that needs to be put to a stop but most importantly I think coming together as a community and saying hate speech of any kind shouldn't be allowed standing up to hate speech should be supported and I'm there's a lot of what I would consider for oh it's gaslighting when we're saying that there is bullying and happening on one side when it seems like at least two different people have outright tried to get people fired and attack them in their businesses and other people are simply just standing up for LGBTQ kids online and not trying to get people fired just saying we think you're wrong and there's a very big difference there to outright attack people's livelihoods attack them in their place of business and to steal personal information from Facebook pages is highly inappropriate versus taking public comments and responding to them which is what social media is and right or wrong it does tend to get negative quickly which is unfortunate but that's also where we come together and say hey let's focus and be a community again okay I think we'll move on to the discussion public complaint against board member policy a one so as people are aware Kate Jarvis has filed a complaint against Shannon under the conflict of interest policy so that's what the board will be considering right now whether um there is a conflict of interest in this case or whether there is not so Kate did you what would you like to present your side of the story Kate Jarvis I'm currently a resident of Woodstock Vermont I have resided in Royalton and Bethel for the past 17 years my daughters attend seventh grade at Bethel Middle School and the others are freshmen here in Royalton I feel like I have repeated the story 17 times in the past month just trying to simply be heard by our school board as a group to report one member's conduct sadly with no resolution or action thus far let the record show that it is sad that I as a parent have had to defend myself and my children multiple times just to simply pose a question or concern to our elected and or appointed school board I came to the board over a month ago with concerns regarding a member of the board and her public comments ridicule taunting and bullying of parents and community members after that concern was not seriously heard or considered I chose to file a formal complaint two weeks ago on November 15th I presented the complaint to both the White River Valley Supervisory Union Board and the White River Valley Unified District Board after the White River Valley Supervisor Union Board chose to dismiss it last week I do have a few follow-up questions and or notes if need be I will be submitting a second complaint after I have this week consulted with an attorney in which I can connect the dots for you folks my complaint would lay out the number of policies resolutions and votes in which the board member named in this complaint Shannon has taken part in I've clearly identified the conflict if you need me to consume more professional time family time loss of income and further public ridicule and slander from Shannon's friends to clarify how there could be a conflict of interest I'm happy to do so my question to you the board in the meantime is over the course of the past few years that Shannon has served on the two boards and managed to bounce back and forth how many policies resolutions and votes have taken place and more specifically have been drafted proposed and or passed by her as an individual and by this board as a group seeing how you all tend to stick together and I do add emphasis I've spoken with obviously I've repeated this multiple times so you all know I've spoken with the attorneys I've spoken with legislatures I think some of them may be attending tonight licensed professionals you know we're all we all are upheld to those levels of ethics and conduct so we know them clearly some of us uphold them and others choose not to I do ask I guess let's see so they agree that there's no doubt discrimination clear unethical conduct inappropriate representation and conflict of interest so how members of this board fail to see that is mind-boggling and concerning to say the least as a group and again I add emphasis who is clearly in support of each other and has identified no acknowledgement or concern I ask you how the materials I've provided do not show discrimination towards the cis binary white privileged or however else you choose to discriminate against these students these days it's not clear or evident lastly I'd like to request a list of discriminatory action taken towards this group of students over the past few years as I question the unjust and inequitable this disciplinary actions based on a conflict of interest originating from the white river valley supervisor union and white river valley you unified district board thank you Shannon you can have an opportunity to respond now wow um sure so I will read my response and file it for the minutes as well slightly different than my response to the su last week um all right so as a scientist ideal in facts you can imagine how frustrating this is for me when the complaint we are answering isn't even correct in its most basic facts for the record I live in South Royalton I was appointed to an empty Royalton seat in 2022 after I moved from Bethel but I have been elected to the red board multiple times and my seat is up for election in 2023 I do not work in New Hampshire I'm also not a nurse which was implied last meeting however my residents and employment have no bearing on the matter that this complaint raises regarding the substance of this complaint which is very confusing but seems to involve an allegation that I have a conflict of interest under 16 vsa section 563 based on some of my Facebook activity none of my private interests are at risk of benefiting from or being harmed by my actions as a school board member other than the stipend we all receive for our work annually of $600 I have no financial conflict of interest I do believe we all gain an emotional and psychological benefit from a sense of accomplishment in our work on the board and I don't see that as a conflict the law cited in this complaint is a statute that outlines the way that school districts throughout Vermont can form school boards and contains general guidance as far as the power powers and duties of school board members who are elected by the residents of each town this statute provides that the school board shall establish policies and procedures designed to avoid the appearance of board member conflict of interest however the statute does not provide for administrative or judicial review of the school board members actions relative to the provisions of the law thus while it is binding upon boards there is no enforcement mechanism for a citizen parent or other individual citizen claiming to be aggrieved by a school board member's conduct to challenge that member's conduct by way of this law similarly there is no power conferred on a school board to create a mechanism for administrative or judicial review of the complaints against a board member the statute the complaintants uh sites does confer power on the electorate to take action directed at a school board member but this is through the ballot box not by appeal to the board as far as the complaints factual allegations they are similarly devoid of an argument i clearly stated during the facebook debate in question that only a quorum of the board can make decisions or take action on behalf of the board and i made it clear to all potential readers of the posts i made in my individual capacity and using my own personal facebook account that they were offered in my personal capacity and not as a representative of the su board or this school board i am not required to make that statement when i speak publicly outside of school board meetings but i did on that occasion so it would be absolutely clear to those i was speaking to and with and to anyone who might read my comments that i was speaking as an individual and not on behalf of our board the complainant has through her actions demonstrated that she fails to comprehend that an elected or appointed public official has a first amendment right to speak in their individual capacity a right which is protected by the vermont and us constitutions however her failure to understand this basic constitutional right does not divest me of that right the complainant has for some reason become so angry about my defense of the rights of transgender children in our school district that she has begun targeting me in my personal and professional capacity since i participated in the facebook discussion in question she has defamed me to the new hampshire state medical licensing board staff and made complaints against my new hampshire license specifically that i committed sexual discrimination on the basis of race and gender with my recent facebook posts based upon information and belief and the statements made tonight by courtney she has also personally targeted other members of our community who have publicly spoken out in favor of protecting transgender students civil rights and their rights to privacy in short it is important for my colleagues on the school board to know that the complainant has taken it upon herself to threaten my livelihood as a single parent the income upon which my family depends and my career along with the livelihoods and income of other parents in the community who have defended transgender's kids civil rights and their rights to privacy and after her comments back to tyler tonight if that's not the pot calling the kettle black i don't know what is i will speak to the rest of the post provided as a group and not individually with some more facts number one i am outspoken i always have been my mom tried to cure it when i was in middle school to no avail although maybe she should have brought me with a pizza no one who voted for me as school board member was ever led to believe i am anything other than outspoken and sarcastic as i was very loud during the merger debate many have known me all my life and elected me anyway i have a first amendment right to speak my mind even if it makes others uncomfortable at times who i use colorful language i have a sarcastic streak a mile long and i curse like a sailor although i try not to in front of small children yes my mom tried to cure me of that too and again i grew up in this community and i have never hidden exactly who i am there are folks in this room who knew me in high school and can tell the stories and again i was elected twice to the seat by the community i grew up in point number three i am a fierce ally for the lgbtq bipoc and disability rights and the amplification of those voices in our community and in our schools i never said i wasn't and never tried to hide it robert jones on twitter in 2015 said quote we can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist unquote i respect those who respect that we all have a right to live our own lives in our own way i will listen to community members who do not share my views but at the moment i cannot imagine that anything they could say would change my perspective that the hate speech and invalidating the identity of our lgbtq students is a morally indefensible position which brings me to fact number four if you want me off the board you will need to find someone to run against me who can win it's just that easy and just that hard i have to live with people like mitch mcconnell and ted cruz holding office in this country that's the political process you don't have to like it but you do have to live with it and you have to participate in the political process to achieve a political result so in conclusion i have no conflict of interest i do fully believe standing up to bullies in this community in support of our anti-discrimination policies and anti-racism policies will help me win re-election to this seat because i fully believe that the people who elected me knew i would be an outspoken ally to those children and our staff members and i believe that the people in this community who stand for those values vastly outnumber the ones who would stand against us even if the numbers changed i cannot imagine adopting a position that results in discriminatory treatment of any children representing marginalized groups in our society that is not my value set and thankfully it is not the value set of this school board thank you okay um so at this point the board can discuss uh i have one comment okay i just now i'm sorry at this point it's just board discussion Andrew am i allowed to speak how could it be just board discussion because you said we could speak about her complaint i won't i gave an opening statement oh sorry Scott first of all um technically only people who are members of the Bethel Royalton community or have but i am the one that talked about the complaint so i would like to speak real quick please and i just hope that you can speak Kate but we're not going to have any members of the public speak at this that's fine but i would like to speak well then this one was from Randolph and she was allowed to speak Andrew to go and Courtney so i mean what are we doing here i let you speak as well but at this point it's just board and public we've finished with public comment we're on to the discussion board just a question for Shannon Higgins can i hand out the baby Scott that's not her name it's not calling her Shannon Higgins and you're not well she said she was a scientist i figured out you're gonna man have a baby hey we're not doing public comment right now if you'd like to just address something to Shannon she her email is online you can ask her questions via that sign the public record okay Kate if you would like to speak keep it keep it quick though because we would like to discuss and and move on at this point two quick notes so in regards to Shannon's i don't know what she called it a note a fact about me calling out her complaint with the licensing board for sexual discrimination right that is true and that was in regards to the common so i spoke to an attorney today again and someone who had run for the state legislature who confirmed that is sexual discrimination okay confirmed by an attorney but you the board can decide you Shannon's friends and the board can decide whatever you will this is the comment that was reported to the licensing board and reviewed with the attorney Chris Tutian just taught me a new term while reading the latest BS on the community forum from the transphobe trolls in town he's just jacking off stands for assholes who keep coming at you with but i just have a question quote unquote we have a few who have jacked off so much over there the forum is awash in their ridiculous ejaculated quarries that is sexual discrimination okay attorneys agree i am a woman i do not jack off anyway we'll let the attorneys decide on that one the other comment i'd like to make is Shannon's joke or fact which was against a parent remind you jason chargade had made a comment on the public forum about his poor 12 year old daughter who felt she was pressured in a classroom by is this in reference to the conflict of interest though andrew jones this is in reference to my complaint in regard i understand but if you could keep the like we've had a lot of discussion at this point this isn't a hearing about whether shannon is rude or whether shannon said things that were not appropriate it's a hearing about whether she has a conflict of interest so i i know the comment that you're talking about and i want to hear it so i'm telling you her fact about the pizza her jokes that she just made the taunting the same kind of behavior that's been going on which is conflict of interest the one i provided to you in an attachment the pizza one that she said oh my god not pizza that definitely turns kids lbgtq how could they use pizza i'm stunned that was in response to a parent who said that he felt his student was pressured to attend an lbgtq group in class instead of going to a class and she just made a joke about it you as the chair make your decision how you see fit this is a ridiculous thank you okay all right so i hope everybody's read the complaint info um and also read our uh conflict of interest policy we did meet with the attorney um representing the school and discussed you know how that what exactly our conflict of interest policy says and to summarize for there to be a conflict of interest there needs to be you know a gain that would be um provided to shannon for acting in a certain way so you know holding if it's not a conflict of interest if you hold a particular belief but if you're holding that particular belief because you're getting something in return that is a conflict of interest or because you would gain for in some way because of that stance that's essentially what the attorney represented to um kathy gluzo and i when we met with her and jamie you can say whether that's essentially what she said um is that i think it's important to to from the board to recognize within this policy that it's really talking about a financial gain right or some type of some type of gain of property versus emotional right okay so um i guess that's to the board to decide whether there is a property or financial conflict of interest for shannon in her representations or that kate has provided evidence of would any of the board members like to comment or discuss i'll i'll go first thing so i was trying to write things down as fast like good will people were we're talking just to kind of you know make sure that i heard everybody right and if i didn't on anything that i might reset feel free to correct me i mean obviously i'm not a lawyer so um you know my definition or what i perceive conflict of interest is i guess my personal opinion of how i think that it works or doesn't work but it's not a legal opinion even though as one gentleman already had stated that you know you know people are so quick to label individuals without knowing them um i see myself as a very non-partisan person so um you know you never know where i'm coming from on an issue even though i was pretty well labeled already this uh this evening um and i was pretty disappointed with the discussion that was had here on how polarizing the comments were i mean we should be thinking more middle and not thinking left or right so i was pretty disappointed with that the so when we do um vote which is going to be a challenge here because i i don't agree that i have any conflict of interest now kate is is my ex-wife and we share custody of children we're also friends i personally feel that i could uh vote uh in a manner that that i see fit without being persuaded but in the eyes of individuals here could be the appearance of a conflict of interest and that's exactly what we're talking about is conflict of interest so now am i actually gaining as we just talked about a financial incentive for this um as it was laid out that's no but there there's the appearance that there could be a conflict of interest um i personally reading through this and and before everybody you know comments i want to go through what i have is i don't believe that this in my opinion rises to what i believe is the definition of conflict of interest i think if there's a lot of things that boards i serve on multiple boards that we have to take up of issues all the time that could be perceived as you may get some sort of gain out of that that might be uh policy in a school for your child or you know uh something else that could be a motivating factor for something that you're going to receive so it's it's kind of tricky i mean we could be doing conflict of interest every 10 minutes you know if we're talking about something that you know if i want to buy you know if i want to improve the athletic budget but my daughters might get uniforms out of that that could be a conflict of interest right i mean the kids are receiving something maybe more personalized but anyways so um i do agree with everybody here that we do have the right of free speech right and we should have the right of free speech and board members have the right of free speech however i've been a board member for almost a decade on several boards and as a board member you don't get the ability to turn off board member or turn on board member and what i mean by that is when you're in the public perception you are a board member all the time so even if you say i'm not a board member you can have the perception of whatever you're saying is coming from a group or a board or from a higher level of of responsibility so i think we we as board members and i always stress that with boards i've been on is you know we have to be careful of how we converse with the public especially in you know open settings now you have the right to voice your opinion you know on climate change or whatever else that it is in the world but you don't have the right to fully or intimidate individuals as a sitting board member so um i do believe that this does go against the code of ethics that we are here to uphold that we do have um and i do believe that this opens the grounds for a board conduct policy that we should have that we don't that other boards do and i think that's something that we uh should be looking at um putting forward very soon i mean we should all hold ourselves to that most highest standards um the a couple of things i just want to address on some of the comments that were made um the on kate's end of things sometimes in the public's perception um it can look like that we're doing things a lot slower than than the public would like so i know when this first came to our our attention in october i believe correct me if i'm wrong and or anybody else but so this was made to us in october we unfortunately this group is we only meet formally once a month so there's a long period of time between meetings um and then the formal complaint was lodged and was in front of us for our november meeting uh which we did not take direct action on other than we did establish a date for this hearing so um so i guess i feel as a board member we acted within a reasonable timeline um for the hearing it may not be um as fast as sometimes the public perceived wanting to get things done but sometimes the board's just you know slow not because we're intentionally trying to drag your feet just it's just it's just the way it is um and i don't agree with you know the comments of boards stick together um you know i i am new to this board but i've been on many other boards i've only been on this board since may um and i really came on this board really because i wanted to kind of depolarize and have a common sense open minded approach to things whatever it is even if you don't agree it's okay for board members it's okay if rodney and i don't agree on everything and i wouldn't want rodney and i agree on i think because it wouldn't be fun to be with each other we wouldn't have the differences opinions um so on those things um so i i i don't know what you want me to do andrew on this um if if i take if i abstain from the boat then then no action will carry tonight because you have to have all four voters um so but if i vote i mean i've already kind of told you what what i would technically uh my point of view on the issue of it so i'm okay with you voting if you feel it's you're able to do so without you know being swayed by the the other point i just wanted to make is and there was a lot of different um discussions being had but looking at things and seeing through the discussions is um initially it sounds like that the complaint was more on the personal conduct of a board member in their responses in public and not necessarily the issue at hand or the topic of discussion it was the way in which our board member conducted themselves in the public setting um if i'm wrong with that feel free to correct me but that was kind of like when will you answer the questions about the policies um rodney or peggy do you have any uh comment you want to make or discussion well i suppose i ought to and my my opinion's always been i prefer to sit and look stupid rather than open my mouth and prove it it worked on the select board so we'll see if it works on select on school board too i think we all have conflicts of interest in one form or another we all have our own opinions the problem here is how a representative of our board chose to express those opinions which does affect the rest of us on the board like it or not i do not disagree with shannon's support of the my daughter calls it the alphabet soup letters because there's so many i'm getting too old to remember all the letters and i don't mean any disrespect but i i support the alphabet soup letters i support our children but i cannot support the way in which a board member chose to express those opinions i would not expect any of my children to express those opinions that way to somebody else nor would i express it that way because sometimes you do more harm with those kind of words and support than you would if you were much more diplomatic if you had spoken on facebook the way you spoke tonight i think it would make more of a difference do i think there's a conflict of interest that we have to say oh she shouldn't be on the board we can't do that anyway but i certainly agree with the fact that the way those opinions were expressed in a public forum whether you were representing the board or not were highly inappropriate and i found offensive to me to to even read them i guess i'm too old to use that kind of language um i guess i'm ranting but i certainly support our kids and i support people who support our kids but i believe we need to do it in a proper polite respectful manner so that people will actually hear us instead of shove us off and i guess that's what i'll say okay i guess it's my turn uh i guess i pretty much agree with what bollock like he said it's uh the comments were inappropriate in foretaste really bad judgment i mean i wouldn't put that stuff in i've been numb to swear some though uh usually i don't put it on facebook but that's the way it goes um as far as the conflict of interest goes because anybody that's a board member and has a child in school would be guilty of conflict of interest because you're trying to do what's best for your child you try to include all the children in that but you know it's uh so i guess that's all you know it's if that's all you're going to call conflict of interest then anybody with children in school would be able to be on board so i don't see i can't call this a conflict of interest i can call it a lot of other things you know if it's not the right way for a board member to act but i don't think we have the i don't think we have the legal right to throw somebody off the board for being inappropriate uh whether we like it or not thanks rodney all right um yeah i guess i would add you know just because similar to what chris said just because the board hasn't acted in the way you might you know somebody wants doesn't mean that we didn't listen and hear and seriously think about things or you know in this case there is some action that's happening which is that we have i do think we are going to probably um look at you know we have the code of ethics and so i think we will be looking at some form of um policy to back that up because right now the code of ethics is a voluntary thing that we adopt at the beginning of our terms and there isn't anything the board can do to enforce it or follow it up so you know i think that is something that's kind of been identified in this process that there will be some follow-up on i think but again you know at this point we're looking at the conflict of interest policy though since that's the policy that was raised in this case so and yeah i i personally don't see a conflict of interest in this i don't think um kind of personal beliefs or something that leads to a conflict of interest i think it has to be something external that you'd be gaining for taking a position or we're holding a belief anyway at this point is there anybody any more board discussion or would somebody like to make a motion anybody so uh just to correct the process so making a motion would be so uh a motion would be that there would be a conflict of interest or or let's want to make sure we get the wording correctly so the may i speak Andrew go ahead Jamie so within our policy it says the board can determine briefings you can move to issue a public funding that the conflict of interest charge is not supported by the evidence it is therefore dismissed you could make a motion that issue a public fund the conflict of interest charge is supported by the evidence and that the member should disqualify him or herself from voting or otherwise participating in board deliberations or decisions related to that issue as required by vermont statue or finally you could issue a public fund that the conflict of interest charge is supported by the evidence and the board member should be formally censured or subjected to such other action as may be allowed by law so if you would if you made a motion on any of those you could vote in the affirmative of those thanks jimmy um anybody like to make a motion on one of those three options i'd make a motion to issue a public finding that the conflict of interest charge is not supported by the evidence and therefore dismissed i'll second the motion okay um is there any discussion so just to clarify a yes vote dismisses the complaint um why don't we do a roll call peggy i'll say aye rodney aye chris aye and i'll vote aye so the um complaint is dismissed okay um well i think at this point we will adjourn the meeting so that has concluded our business um i'd like to thank everybody for coming out and um and i we appreciate my actually can i speak first yes go ahead i think at our next board meeting i would like to maybe discuss a policy on board conduct okay that would just be something that we would take upon we start with a discussion because it sounds like i think the plan is to have it at the end of the policy right but i think we should discuss it so we can talk about it at the policy committee now down here but i think it's i guess i think it's something we need to get going now if i remember right correctly i think you had told me that there there are two boards in rsu that do have conduct they adopt policies and procedures as a board so we have some models so i didn't know if we have a template that we can read you have a time gather so i think the desire is is to have it be s u wide and every member district would adopt it as a formal policy but in this case option wise in this case if it went the s u way and let's say it's not favorable you can sit on the individual board and adopt something like that okay your policy on policy creation says where i get it with no sorry the policy on policy creation says the policy comes out of the s u and then is adopted by local district boards if there's a district board petitioning for a policy and the s u in general doesn't support it it doesn't stop you at that point to adopt it as a district right but i think the public wants to see some action on this and i think we should get started on it the next yeah i think and ronnie you're on the policy commission you could do well but this policy committee is very slow moving i think our district would probably stop talking stop discussing earlier and you could even draft the policy and bring it to the policy i can't no but as a district board you could draft it right right and this is what we're doing that's what i'm saying and then you could bring it out probably not the whole thing yeah can we get even if it maybe it's not in our district or in our s u can we get a good strong representation of all time and a couple of drafts that maybe we could have in our packet and we could look at this but we don't like that so i'll have to do some research and i had given andrew some stuff early and i think he shared it with everybody i don't have it with me but remember the stuff i gave you andrew there yeah i hadn't shared that out but that was some stuff that came from the sba had some sta had they have yeah they have those uh example of what the other districts adopt but what they don't have is the tangible piece of how to censor behind it and so i'll i'll i'll get a couple drafts we need to look at all right yeah well i look forward to that discussion i do think it's a kind of somewhat fraught topic anytime we're talking about you know board members taking out other or you know taking action against other board members mostly because you know you don't want to wind up in a situation where people are taking action based on having differences of opinion so but we do need that something on conduct i think anyway um at this point i think it's it's time to adjourn so uh i'll make a motion to adjourn okay thanks everybody thank you andrew i knew it wasn't