 Okay, we're back to talk about the telescope, and we're happy to see you again, Sam Wilder King II, and he is the Imua TMT rally co-organizer still today. Yes. Hi, Sam. Nice to see you. Nice to see you too, Jay. How's it going? Good. Well, that's my question to you. How is it going since last week, last Thursday, when, you know, I mean, it was a certain surprise in seeing hundreds of people show up to support the telescope. That was a great move, and it was a great phenomenon, and it had a balancing effect in my mind. So how's it been since then? What have we learned since then? I think we're learning that people really do support the 30-meter telescope, and there's, you know, it was all, I think it was always clear that Hawaii, the state, supported it. I think it's now becoming clearer that there's native Hawaiians that support it. I always have an objection to this kind of race-based dichotomy, but it's the reality of the times, you know, the identity politics and the, you know, the Instagram, social media. It's all about passion and that kind of thing, but it's also important. I mean, there's an extent to which, you know, there's keepers of that host culture idea. There's nothing to be said for that, especially since, you know, we do have a tourism industry that has this kind of idea. You want it to be something that's sacred and important and valuable, and it is something that's sacred and important and valuable, so there's a, there's this sort of amount of importance on, you know, that, you know, my community, as a native Hawaiian community, oh-ha beneficiaries, they're having an interest there, but that's the important thing that we're learning. A lot of those people are coming out and saying, you know, this is a good thing. I've been, that's basically what I've been working on. I've been trying to make phone calls and trying to find all the people that are supporting and, you know, be like, you know, let's, time to come out. This is the time to speak up. Let's know more sitting around, waiting, and wondering what's going to happen next. Like what's happening is, are you going to make a choice to come out and stand up for what you believe or are you not, and that's, and some people I understand where they're coming from. They, I've heard reports of people being ostracized or, you know, there's kind of fiber-bullying going on. There's an ostracization that happens in communities a lot with the TMT. And I think that's very inappropriate. It's not very kapu aloha of people that are, you know, anti-TMT or ostracizing members that are pro-TMT, but, you know, that's how it goes. And I think that's, it's something that you got to push back on in the state to say, you know, that's, like I said, it's not the story we want to tell in this state. And I think people are starting to realize that they agree with that sentiment. They don't want the story of the Hawaii to be, you know, where this is us and you're them and we have this claim and it's our claim and only we get to have any say over it because of our race. And so people are pushing in that way. I think it's good. Well, let me unpack some of that with you. Sacred. I must say, I do have questions about sacred. What is sacred about this mountain and when did it, when did it become sacred? Well, you might be asking the wrong guy all the details on that. I'm not a native Hawaiian practitioner of the ancient native Hawaiian religion. Is it a religion? I mean, I don't, like I said, I don't know. I've been starting to look into and this is and this is actually one of the things that I think is is good about this whole process. Everyone's taking the time to learn something about it and learn about the history. I'm starting to learn a little bit more. I've been trying to post links online about all the documents that were created over the 10 years that this thing has been vetted. And there's an extensive environmental impact statement that covers all of this. And there's a, somebody, one of the authors of the EIS wrote essentially an entire book on the history of Mauna Kea. And it's very extensive. And there's, it's like appendix F or something, starting at like page 370 of the third volume of the EIS. And it goes on to talk about, you know, there's these chance, these native Hawaiian chance that are the creation myths. And I think there were three major ones. And there's one that talks about kind of the Waakea and Papa and this kind of creation myths story. Did they mention Mauna Kea in the chance? I think there's a, I think they do. I mean, these are historic chance. I'm talking about chance written yesterday. No, these are historic chance. Yeah, historic chance. There's definitely, the EIS explains it. There's a certain level of sacredness. I mean, you know, it's, there's a balance act, right? On the one hand, there's certainly an argument. I don't even know if it's an argument. They're just historically Mauna Kea was a sacred place. The elite went on, could go up to the top. But then there's the other side, I think we mentioned before, which is the elite converted to Christianity as well. So I don't know, you know, if they were still the kingdom of Hawaii, they would now be the Christian kingdom of Hawaii. So I'm not sure what. Two religions, it sounds like. Well, I mean, the 19th century was quite remarkable. You know, people learn how to speak English, learn how to read and write. They were really good at it early on by 1830. Everything was pretty, you know, settled in that regard. There were lots of schools, lots of churches, lots of religion, Christian religion. I mean, you know, the place changed dramatically in the space of 30, 40 years. By 1850, it was clear where Hawaii was going on every level. And so, you know, is this a competing religion? Religion that was forgotten and then remembered? You know, if you don't know, just say so. No, I mean, I don't know all the details for sure. And that, like I said, I'm learning more. But I think there's definitely evidence from people I've been talking to and the more I've been reading that, you know, it wasn't forgotten necessarily in the sense that nobody remembered it ever. It's just that nobody was practicing it. And it definitely seems like more people have started practicing or going to the mountain and treated it the way that the protestors are treating it in the early 90s as a result of protests against the telescopes in particular. But you know, that's not really, that debate isn't really that important for the future to me, because the question of whether or not your cultural claims are valid or this or that, I mean, I think there's something to be said there and we should discuss it as a community. But you get to some point where it's like, okay, now that we've discussed this, we need to have the rule of law. How are you gonna, what system does the protestors mode of operating imply should exist in the state of Hawaii? And what it seems to be is, well, what we're gonna do is we're going to sue you and object and we're gonna use the legal system to stop you from doing the thing we don't like. But then when suddenly we have lost in every legal battle, in every courtroom, in every contested case hearing, every step of the way, finally when it gets down to it, we're gonna go on social media and we're gonna make a claim of sacred culturalness that it's just our religion, we've made this religious claim now. And despite the fact that it's been examined thoroughly in all these hearings, but because those hearings weren't public enough or whatever or the rock didn't show up, we are gonna have this, now we're gonna do it like this and now you have to listen to us, you must negotiate with us. That's not the basis of Forrest's system of government to quote Monty Python. It's just not a good idea to have your system of government run where you can just come out finally and be like, I object to this. And you know, people- I think your point is well taken. It reminds me of some politicians who say, if I win the election, I accept the election system and accept the fairness of it. If I lose the election, it was all, it was not fair. I agree. And there's something inherently unacceptable about that. If you go, what you describe as two systems and you use either one to get where you need to go, use them both and just keep on going and fighting and fighting and fighting. You never give up. That's what I hear out of this. That's why I don't agree with the moe the protesters are doing this. I mean, I think there's a space for the civil disobedience discussion and I think that's acceptable. I disagree with the analogy that people are making to like the civil rights movement. It's just, I don't think there's an analogy to be made that civil rights movement was not examined by 10 years of contested case hearings and environmental impact statements. It was just racism. They're like that they were pushing back against and there were members of the black community that were like, yeah, this is all great. We love all these laws that keep us at restaurant. There's native Hawaiians now we're saying, this is, you know, our culture has moved on. It's just, it's completely not an alias, but people that disagree, that's fine. But I think that's- People say, you know, that this is all kind of a proxy for another dissatisfaction underneath. It's the dissatisfaction you hear from native Hawaiians that, you know, their land was stolen from them in the overthrow. They disagree with the overthrow. They disagree with the jurisdiction of the United States and they, they're very unhappy about it and every opportunity, you know, to oppose things, oppose any, you know, progressive direction, you know, they will, they will do that. They will put, and in fact, you could look back over the past few years, not that long really and see a lot of projects have been stopped on the same idea. So query, you know, what is, you know, what is really happening here? I suggest there's something under the surface and it isn't really the telescope. It's two possibilities I'd like you to comment on. You know, one is they're very unhappy about the overthrow and they're still replaying that and the loss of whatever, whatever was in existence in 1893. And the other is, and somebody told me, a native Hawaiian told me, I'd like you to comment on it. The TMT and Mauna Kea are very important but not in the way you think. They're very important as a rally point. They have great value to native Hawaiian groups as a rally point because it brings them together, it consolidates their movement if you wanna call it that and it is going to be useful in future projects and future oppositions, future protests. And so for the first time you see a rally of this magnitude and I guess, you know, it sounds to me like that's a true analysis that this has actually had a salutary effect on bringing the native Hawaiian movement together. What do you think? I disagree that it's bringing the native Hawaiian community together. I'm not sure the native Hawaiian community needs a bringing together. That's a thing that's been created for political reasons in various ways. I mean, what they mean is the people that support federal recognition of the people that support sovereignty I guess and that they're all now in agreement that they don't like the telescope but I'm not even sure if that's true. I mean, I'm a member of the native Hawaiian community and they're not bringing me together. I don't like this protesting at all and I don't like objecting to our legal system and violating our process. So that's, I don't know, but I think that's definitely what the protesters think they're doing and I think you're absolutely right. I think they've said that. I'm not sure it's even a mystery. I mean, I think they would say it but I'm not, you know, I get it as a political strategy. I mean, sure, why not? Like get your supporters to come out and I mean, to some extent, I have, I want rallies like this Thursday, we're gonna do another rally at 5 p.m. at the state capital because I want the supporters of the TMT to come out and meet each other and network and say like, look, this is, you still need to be afraid. You don't need to be worried. People are out there that people support it. So I understand that. But I get the point you're going towards is, you know, this is not a reason to block this absolutely fantastic process of project that will bring so many benefits to Hawaii. And my objection to it was the same that I had last week when I was running my op-ed or two weeks ago. It's just, you're teaching the next generation this story of victimhood and grievance that they're gonna use to roll into the next project, whatever their particular thing is, they can't win in court. They can't win in the court of public hearings and going through it. So they're just gonna object and say, you know, I'm native Hawaiian, therefore you can't do this or this is an environmental violation. I mean, people have been using the EIS process in Hawaii. They've been abusing it for a very long time to make everything in Hawaii harder to do. And I think it started with good intentions. It's more expensive to do. They've started with the intentions of saying, like, you know, we have to preserve the beauty of Hawaii for the reason just because it's beautiful and for the tourism industry. But the end result is that my generation can't buy homes and everyone's wondering, oh, where are the kids going? It's like, well, I can't buy a home because you make every single project as possible to do. Why would I, I can't buy anything? Because like, I think I was describing it before, right? Where if you're an entrepreneurial housing developer and you wanna build some new thing that's cheap and you can do it fast, it's hard for you to get upfront funding because you don't maybe have a lot of history with the financiers, but you need a $300,000 to write an EIS. It's like, you're not gonna get that. You just don't do it. So the big guys are the only ones that come in. They can sit around and wait forever. You're making everything harder to do. You're making everything more expensive. And this is happening all over the country. And San Francisco is one of the worst examples of this and they're having this conversation. This is just another example. I mean, you know, at some level, it's the telescope is spending a ton of money, the scientists that are spending a ton of money to get this done and that money goes away from scholarships that could have gone to students to study the science and all these kinds of things. And all for the purpose of telling a story a certain way, telling this grievance story where everything was bad and there's no, you know, there's, we didn't make the choice, like the choices were not ours. The choices were somebody else's, you know, there's, we deserve this and we deserve that and somebody else did it to me at. And you know, to some extent, there's an argument there for some places, but it's far too nuanced for this, for this kind of a fight. But you know, I'm going to talk about a strange reaction points that I'd like you to comment on. The first reaction point is you got people to come out and you will again this week. That hasn't happened before. People who support the telescope and the surveys tell us that, what, 73% of the people in the state support the telescope, where are they? They're responding to anonymous surveys is where they are. And then there was another one with the Star Advertiser which was something over 50%. This is a very interesting contradiction. 50% felt that the telescope would in fact ultimately get built. Not 73, but 53. So, assuming you sort of conflate those two together, what you get is that people would like to see it built, but they're not all that confident that it will be built, different. Anyway, so I wanted to get, so what kind of feedback have you gotten from the astronomical community, the academic community, the science and engineering community and the business community about the juxtaposition of the two groups, one on one side of Baratania Street, the other on the other side. What kind of comments have you received since last Thursday? I'm not sure that this has been anybody that's like one group of the other. I mean, there's some business people that have come out that were positive about it. There were native Hawaiians that have come out and I got in touch with Lepa Babayan and he's very in favor of it and cultural practitioners that are very in favor of it. So, I think people have generally just said they were glad that the supporters finally started coming out and most people felt intimidated and they didn't want to say anything and so the general reaction has been like, well, finally I have a place to go and see the people that care about this thing. I think that's what people, that's what I wanted. That's why I organized the rally. It was very interesting to see the rally. Like I said, I think Star Advertiser or something, I didn't know if anybody would show up. I was gonna go by myself, maybe with Malia if Malia was, I talked to Malia if Malia was gonna be there. It was gonna be me and Malia standing on the road with signs saying we support the TMP. I suggest you'll have more people this week. I hope so. The Rolling Stone. The second tier of people I'd like to ask you about are the people who don't wanna talk about it. And I do my little surveys here in downtown. I ask a lot of people what they think about this issue and I don't charge my question. I'm trying to be neutral in the way I frame the question. A lot of people will not discuss it. Will not discuss it at all and I'm not a threatening person. I try not to be threatening but they will say, I don't know about that. I don't care about that. I'm not involved in that. There are arguments on both sides. I don't know enough to actually be able to respond to you and you know that they have other feelings about it but I'm getting a very high percentage of people sort of doing the wallflower thing. I'm not sure why. Why are they doing the wallflower thing? Why are they afraid to talk about it in public? People are afraid to talk about almost anything. I mean, you know, it's like the old adage. You don't talk about like money and politics and work. I mean, you know, your family dinner, right? People don't wanna talk about it. It's dramatic. People in Hawaii don't like, you know, confrontation. They don't wanna hear. They don't wanna say. Is this politics? Would you say this is politics? I think it's obviously politics now. I mean, if you're starting to ostracize people from your community because of their political beliefs. It's politics because of the way the protests have framed it. It's like the Hawaiian kingdom and the identity politics of saying native Hawaiians believe this and if you don't believe it, you're not a real native Hawaiian. I mean, that's just weird. And so, but people don't wanna touch it. They're like, okay, whatever. And that's why I think it's important for people like me and people like Malia and anybody else that believes and supports the project. Especially native Hawaiians that wanna tell the native Hawaiian story from their perspective and say it's okay for people to support this. I mean, they should come out. There was one funny experience I had as far as the race element goes. There was one funny experience I called a radio show and I was talking to them and I was having a sole discussion about how the polls all support the TMT and at some points, one of the DJs asked me, well, you know, like, you know, they were here first and so they should have a right to say something. And I was like, who was here first? And the DJ was like, well, it was the Hawaiians who were here first. I was like, well, the Hawaiians first off are 70% or you know, if you wanna get technical, it's a lesser minus 10% confident, like margin of error with a confidence interval of 95%. So 60 to 80% of native Hawaiians support the project. So I'm not sure what the point of that argument is. And I was also pointing out something just kind of, you know, flipping because it's the radio. I'm like, well, there's one guy that was quoted in Civil Beat saying he was 100% Okinawan. He's on the mountain supporting this cause and the DJ cut me, another DJ cut me off. He's like, I'll stop you right there. Like, you don't have to be Hawaiian to support the native Hawaiians. And I was like, oh, well, okay, fine. Yeah, I agree. You're right. So anybody should be able to come out and support the TMT because native Hawaiians support the TMT and it's a native Hawaiian project. It's communing with the heavens in a place that is, you know, a gift to mankind and humanity to study and learn about the heavens. I mean, learn about God's creation. If you're religious, you can tell the story, the way to make it positive and a win-win for absolutely everybody. Or you can spit it the other way. Why are they so afraid to talk about it? Are they afraid of recrimination? Are they afraid of being criticized? And the people who support the TMT, they just don't want to talk about it. I think some people don't want their cars to get keyed. I mean, some people are like, they don't want bumper stickers, they don't want their cars to get back alive. So it's fear. I've seen that on, yeah, I think people are afraid. I think there is an intimidation factor that the protesters are putting out there. On social media, for sure, people are constantly doing it. I'm not sure it's so bad now. I feel like people are starting to come out and push back more. And there's, you know, in the groups that I've been looking at, there's moderators that explicitly come out and say, you know, that's not helpful to the conversation. Make sure you push back. And there's, you know, there's people that can say nasty things on both sides of the debate. So it's important for the supporters if they start coming out and coming out of large numbers to also watch their language and watch their words and understand that the protectors, you know, even if they're, there's some that are cultural and they're sincere in the beliefs and they say, you know, it's gonna hurt. They gotta, you have to, you can understand that and you can feel it and you can empathize with it. And even if you don't ultimately agree and you understand that it's not a basis for a system of government to just have religious claims that can trump everyone's interests ever. And there's some people that they don't have any, they don't care about that at all. It's just political. I can still understand where they're coming from is democracy, you can do the civil disobedience thing. Well, it's Hawaii though. Hawaii's a small town. People are afraid of recrimination. I agree. People are afraid. They're afraid of their tires, what not, you know? And it's a small town where if you go public on something, it may come back to haunt you. Where they say what comes around goes around. It's a small town. And I think there's a lot of that kind of feeling that limits people to express themselves. There's people trying to boycott a supermarket. The owner of the supermarket on Big Island came out in favor of TMT. Exactly. And so they're trying to boycott. Exactly. And people should go shop there, I guess. Another one of the tears that we should discuss is the media before, I guess, and especially after last Thursday's rally. I mean pro TMT rally. How has the media been looking at this? I recall my own reaction as I saw an advertiser editorial that said, yes, we should build a TMT. But then I see page after page, article after article, which essentially was on the other side of the coin, reporting on all the people who were opposing it. And so the, you know, and that's the one that kind of catches your attention, but all the people who were opposing it. So the editorial really was paled in light of all this news about the opposition to the project. I mean, how do you feel that the media has been doing? How do you feel the media has been handling this? I've written a lot of angry letters to editors during this process and to the news media about the way they've covered it. I think it's been very disingenuous in a lot of ways. But I will give them, and I don't know what their agenda is. I've never understood the news media. I mean, your job is to cover the news and it just seems like there's always a spin in every story that report is right. But you know, sometimes it's hard to get your bias out because every word you tweak it, it can come across a different way. But so I would love to know, please bring Rich Blanchard here, somebody on here to ask them what their plan is. I think at some other level, it's news. It's a product. You're selling a product. If you want to earn media, go out and earn the media. The protestors showed up and earned media. They made a spectacle. They got celebrities to show up. They've been planning this for years. They've been working hard. They're sleeping there, whatever they're doing for summer, they are spending it there. So if you want news media, you come out and cover the news media. So I think when the rally happened, we got a lot of positive. I mean, the TMT got a lot of positive coverage or it kind of dialed back in a way because now there was something to talk about. If you want to talk about it, then get up. Get up off the couch, write a letter, say something. Like I said, everything people do counts. So if you see news story, you don't like it. You write a letter to them and you tell them you don't like it. They respond. There's contact info on the websites. You just got to take action. You don't even have to get off your couch. You pick up your cell phone. You just Google it. Send them a letter. Tell them what you think. They will react. They will respond. They want to know. And for the past couple of weeks, it's only been the protestors. I mean, if you've got a camp of people on Mount Ikea, I assume they have Wi-Fi up there because it's all the pictures. And so if you're just broadcasting that out all the time, nothing to do but respond to things. And people are sharing where you should go and what you should send it to. I mean, I'm sure there's other things to do also. They have a university learning language. I read one post by a pro TMT person. It was like, I actually want to go there and learn about Hawaiian language and culture from some of the teams. That's a great idea. You should definitely go. I mean, maybe you just stay subtle about it if you're just there to learn. But I think that's fine. So the point is, I think the media is doing, in this day and age, what the media does. I would love to see kind of a really neutral analysis, people looking at what the interests are and the groups, kind of what you're trying to do. But at some level also, it's like, look, you got to go earn your media, right? If you want to get attention, go do something that deserves attention. If you're just going to sit and be a wallflower, like you said, okay, no one's going to care what you think. At some level, there's something to be said for passion in a democracy. Like, if the majority cares, but they don't really care, then the minority is going to win. I mean, it's kind of like a free trade debate. When back in that debate was actually happening, now it's all used. But the majority of people win from that kind of a trade scheme because it reduces consumer prices, but then the minority gets hurt. So it's always that balance. So you've got to take action. Well, as we've seen, democracy is changing, certainly changing at the national level and in other countries. And I think we can see some of that here, too. There's a question about the rule of law, as you mentioned. There's a question of exactly what are we talking about and how do you inform yourself? I talked to one woman and I said, so what do you think about TMT? And she said, I don't know why they can't do it somewhere else. And I said, have you read the newspapers? Have you informed yourself about this? And she said, this is so interesting. This is a national kind of comment. She said, I don't trust any of the media. They're all lying. So how can I make my mind up? I ask questions, but I don't trust them to provide the answers. That's, there's a very interesting conversation. But let me go to the third tier of discussion. Fourth tier now, I think we're in. Oh, we're in the fourth tier, that's fine. Many tiers. This is a very sophisticated nuance kind of subject, as you said. So now we have the government. We have the politicians. And the politicians arrive on the scene. I'm not sure why. And they come, but they don't really actually come with an agenda that you can understand. And the agenda changes with some of them. And they're on the mountain. And they're in front of the television cameras. And I suppose that's always good for a politician. But what's the play here as far as politicians are concerned? Are they trying to get votes? Are they trying to do the right thing? Is it a combination? Where is it all going? Because the fact is, if you're in political office, people tend to listen to you. Leadership comes from being in a high office. Everybody knows who you are. So what is happening with them? How are they affecting it? And how is it affecting them? And how do other people, that is, the people who are not protesting on the mountain right now, how do they see the comments by these politicians? Today, this afternoon, David Igay withdrew voluntarily. Sue Espante withdrew under pressure. He withdrew his emergency declaration. I don't know what that means. Maybe you can help me. Yeah, I don't know what that means either. I think the breakdown of the rule of law in a defined area at a very important time is especially when you have people posting on social media that they're willing to die for this particular cause. I think that definitely constitutes an emergency situation. I think it was completely appropriate to declare an emergency, and it's still appropriate. But I think maybe at the time that if the construction starts again and there's still an issue, he can probably re-declare it. So I'm optimistic there. And I think he's trying to de-escalate because there's hurricanes coming. I mean, I give the governor props for that. There's been a lot of pressure on Igay, in particular, starting with him at the top, where they're saying, why didn't he do this faster and this faster than that? And there's something he said, he got elected. We've elected him twice. And it wasn't like he had easy elections. He took out a sitting governor. I mean, Lee Honabusa was a strong candidate. He has his finger on the pulse of all the people for why he want to see this include. And I think there's something to be said for that. And people for why they don't want to see everyone just get arrested and wiped out. We want to have a conversation and show respect for each other and see, how can we resolve this? I mean, I think at bottom the rule of law exists. It might have to be enforced. If people want to be arrested, they can be right. We can accommodate that. But I think he's trying to gauge that situation. And so I think the emergency declaration withdrawal, I think David Igay, as an engineer, he's kind of his mindset. He's just looking at it like, look, there's our hurricane coming, so let's calm down. Can you guys move out of the way? I don't know if he's going to nefariously, or not even nefariously. I don't know if he would use that as opportunity to move it. I'm sure that's what the protesters think. I wouldn't even object, necessarily, because it's time to move forward with the project. But also, again, if they want to come back after it, I think he's just trying to say, look, there's a hurricane coming. So just everyone calm down for a second. You can come back. That's what I'm saying. At some level, it's a game that we're playing, where you're showing how much passion you have for it. And I can respect that. That's how you have conversations like this. You're saying people are scared to talk about it. Well, people wouldn't even be thinking about it if it wasn't all over the news, much less talking about it. So when you have these kind of situations and conversations in a democracy, you have the opportunity for the consciousness and knowledge base of an entire community to elevate. And so that's valuable. And that's something that we should look at as a positive in the situation. And I think David Ige and his staff are just like, we don't want people to die. We don't want anyone to be hurt. So why don't everybody just take a second. We've got hurricanes coming. Let's just slow down for right now, everyone. I know you're going to come back anyway afterwards, and we can go from there. I think that's what he's thinking. And it's for everybody, all the politicians. That's kicking it down the road, though, isn't it? Yeah, it is. But they're not going to build during this time anyway. The hurricanes are coming. They're not going to set the construction. It would have been appropriate for some political leader to say, just to adopt your position. This is important to the state. This is science. This is one of the things we have done well. There's no reason that the culture and the science cannot coexist. They have for years and years. Why don't we just go ahead with this project? What is everybody so excited about? Instead, I think a lot of the politicians have fomented the passion instead of trying to actually resolve it. And so what you have is, at best, kicking it down the road. At worst, I mean, this is not at all over. And let me close with asking you this. The people who feel that the chances of this actually happening are less than the views of the public to want it to happen. There's a discrepancy there. Is this going to happen? Or are we just going to play around for months or years until we break the back of the consortium? And they say, it may not be as good elsewhere, but we have to go elsewhere. Like Superferi, we have to close this down. I don't know. I'm not on the TMT board. As far as I can tell, there's a risk that it will not happen, which is why I spoke up and which is why I'm taking action. Because I think it absolutely should happen. It's a fantastic project. And for all the other reasons we've discussed it, it should definitely happen. So I think if people support the TMT and they want to get it built, this is not the time to sit around and be like, oh, I'm sure they'll take care of it. It is the time to start writing letters, write to your governor, call your senator, call your state representatives, call the TMT. People find out who's fine. I think the Moore Foundation is financing them. They've already been targeted. Write them letters of support. Start making phone calls. Start calling people. Get on social media. In this debate, every single thing counts. Write letters to the rock. Hashtag these celebrities that are coming out in favor of the protesters. Let them know what you think and why you think it's a great project and a good idea. So what's the next step as far as Imua is concerned? What do you see happening? You mentioned there was going to be another protest or rather count a protest on Friday this week. That's only a couple of three days away. Well, I'm not protesting anything. I'm just rallying. So I'm trying to rally against the protests. This Thursday, 5 p.m., we're going to rally. This Thursday, 5 p.m., at the state capitol, Imua TMT will be there. I think people on the other islands are also going to be doing it. I think Big Island, there's some conversation going on because there's going to be some rain and people are like, oh, we're going to go. I think some people will go. So everyone just be safe. Just be safe. Just be safe. OK, look, we're having a conversation about it. You're going to go crazy. Even the protectors on the mountain, OK? Just be safe. You don't need to hang out there just because there's a hurricane. You're trying to be tough. Just everyone, just keep going. I mean, I get the trust issue. I understand you make your own calls, but I think everyone's going to come out. They're going to share their mana'o, as we say, and they're going to say, OK, this is what I think. Just come tell your story. We'll all just have this conversation. I think I said this before. Max Holloway said it best. He didn't know exactly what was going on. He had this post about it. He didn't know what was going on. What I only wanted to say was don't fight. And I think it's the same thing. Don't fight. Just come out. Share what you think. Be respectful. Tell everyone else to be respectful. But come out, share it. So the next step is continue that message. Continue to tell your story. Tell it wherever you can tell it. Come to the rally, 5 PM Thursday at the State Capitol, and then keep going online. And as much time as you've got, send out messages of support to the governor, to Mayor Kim, to TMT, to the Moore Foundation, to Caltech, wherever is supporting this thing. Just tell them your story, because the protestors are out there doing it. And that's all they're hearing. They're like, oh my god, everybody in the whole world hates this thing. Don't be a wallflower. You can do something. There is no way that you can say you can't do anything. You can write an email or a letter or a hashtag. Samuel Wilder King, the second Imua, TMT, Imua to you. Thank you so much, Sam. I just want to add one other thought. Aloha means take care of each other. You say, be safe. Arguably, at a higher level, we all ought to be taken care of each other. We ought to be taken care of the whole community. Absolutely. Thanks. Thank you.