 Good evening Good evening. We're looking forward to a good discussion. We're not sure how this is going to go these fellows have been preparing and We had a few switch-ups right before A few things a few different directions we're going to go So we're just hope this will be of some benefit to you Been really blessed and fed by the talks and the humility and the passion Dale, I tell you how old a soul are you sir? 76 praise God We'd like to have one more child by and number 10 and my wife said you realize by the time she's 20 you'll be 77 are you up to this and I said well praise God? I mean I'm not living for the film trying to live one day at a time and Dale you're just a praise God We heard about grumpy old people and today we want to be sweet and kind and I just love listening to your messages You've been an inspiration how God's breaking you and molding you and you're coming out as gold You're coming out beautiful spirit and that woman beside you keeps loving you Praise God. That's exciting. I tell my wife every day. Thank you for marrying me It's a it's a real blessing. All right fellows. Let's uh Let's have some introductions here first Let's introduce Elisha Elisha Byler y'all know him. Hi he uh, he spoke already and Elisha raise your hand for those who are new here tonight He says he was uh grew up here in pennsylvania Was a member of shepherdsburg christian fellowship moved to chihuahua in 1998 in mexico and joined a Non-affiliated anabaptist church there He he and I have something in common. We're both swiss hillbillies and our wives are both dutch the aristocratic dutch And they said to the swiss when they wanted the martyrs mirror. They said uh, you guys down there over the mountains You don't even know how to read and write. What do you need that? The martyrs mirror translated in your language But uh, we're doing okay. Aren't we Elijah? Yeah, all right your wife's and ends That's great seven children And uh, how far do you live from creel? four hours so Are you still in chihuahua? Still in the state of chihuahua four hours from creel And working with the tata humata Indians native americans Amen, praise god All right, and tell me again You got your mic turned on there Something you'd like to do before you kick the bucket. I asked them all what they'd like to do before they go home to glory That's the more dignified way to say it go ahead Well, there's a lot of things I'd like to do before I go to glory but I have a list actually I have it written down Wow, that's great And uh, and one of the things on the list is I would like to help someone some younger man Go to a never-reached tribe And what is your passion? My passion is exactly that helping young men to become successful In business In business In the kingdom. I'm young too, but younger men Amen in the kingdom. Wow praise god. Thank you next let's go to brother Trent Trent Eikenberry old german baptist new conference wife holly seven children four to 18 minister of the gospel Works with cam lived in nigeria four and a half years salt program about six years Now operate a small ministry for street women in Just nigeria I want to see my children and grandchildren converted before I die is his His thing that he'd like to do. He says he doesn't really have a hobby But what's your passion brother? Well, I'm not sure if this is on but my passion is for ministry and for the kingdom of god and that's kind of broad But it's been the greatest joy of my life to serve the lord And to be a minister and a preacher of the gospel Wow praise god Okay, I have next uh, philip show walter uh, philip I appreciate you guys out there in kentucky Do you consider yourself east kentucky? Central kentucky. Okay. Get your mic going because I'm going to ask you a question in a moment You're married. How many children two girls two girls and uh, you folks have a butcher shop family butcher shop Meat processing facility Folks, I recommend all you go visit them. They're the most hospitable folks And they'll give you a tour of their meat shop and all the different tastes and flavors I was very blessed and impressed And uh, what's your passion? um, I would say christ kingdom, but in a uh, I would say a single sense of that would be a church and to see it united To see it harmonious to see it prospering is my passion And what about something you'd like to do before you kick the bucket? Well one ambition I told with is um To have a training program that I could maybe help out with to equip young men to be Soldiers for the cross preachers missionaries uh kingdom laborers for uh, the church in christ kingdom So I asked him. I said are you a minister of the gospel? He says no I says that's wonderful. I says do your congregation tolerate people like you or are they uh intimidated? And he says no in our congregation If I would say that I have this desire in my heart, they would ask how we can bless you I got excited. I thought maybe we needed to ordain them right away and and to get some oil and have an ordination But he desisted Okay, praise god Kevin Kevin brechtville Uh, Kevin you tell how how many you said eight children or nine eight eight children And uh, you live local here and what congregation are you with there chambersburg christian fellowship chambersburg christian fellowship? Okay Enjoyed your message and uh, I told mrs. Bursow. I said did you hear that those wonderful words? of thanks That uh, she said that you said for brother david That was very very very beautiful to say thank you to those whose shoulders we stand on None of us are self made Yes, praise god Thank you so, uh What do you enjoy doing you enjoy traveling spreading the gospel? And planting churches and you just came back from the ukraine. What were you doing there? Visiting my son your son. What's he doing? Uh, he's helping take food into the ukraine from romania wonderful Praise god, what's your passion? My passion is to uh, help church leaders learn to lead well Say that again learn help church leaders to learn to lead well church leaders uh, we have a A dearth in the land of good Leadership in knowing how to do it well and I have a passion to help and assist with that As I think the rest of these brothers do as well. Wow, praise god I'm so excited to be here tonight. This was just a boost in my faith. I haven't been here for 15 years I was bouncing my son on my knee And tomorrow he's going to be uh 17 He fell asleep at that old campground over there brother joe Brother denny and brother uh john martin were there and praise god It's amazing how life moves on. I was so blessed Okay, and something you want to do before you die I got a whole list of them things Yeah I think I want to help establish two or three other churches in our local community would be my first Uh endeavor praise god Okay, thank you, kevin. We're looking forward to we'll go on now and we'll have in just a moment My name is nathan overholt. My wife janet. Janet. Would you stand over there, honey? And uh, we'll have 18 years together this fall lord willing if the lord terries and we live nine children one to 17 I'm a minister at our little church plant in hurricane mills, Tennessee I worked for 30 years as landscape design installation contractor now build metal buildings with my sons And they're telling me dad get off the ladder that won't support you And uh come down and they know more than I do And so I am learning to be small We operate a country store overholt's farm market where our church community interfaces We're just a few families interfaces with the surrounding culture through the medium of food We've been involved in singing and evangelism on streets and churches and over a good cup of coffee for most of my life Lived and taught school in poland for year and a half for family led evangelism tours to europe for seven years Having had many sins and addictions. I am damaged goods And walked with a pronounced limp, but i'm thankful for god and his people's wonderful grace and mercy My passion is my family and people My brother Matthias and I We made it into the brethren guinness book of world records. That's the church of the brethren John whining. Are you here tonight? John, where are you at back there? Go talk to him if you need some help getting a church started Uh, you know some of this church politics and pardon me. Let me not I'd need a safe passage out of here. Who's in charge of this meeting? But I Anyhow brother john brought some elders down and Anointed us. He says, you know, this has got to be the first for a brethren elder To come down and lay hands on on uh, some Amish Mennonite boys and ordain them to the ministry And so we made it into the guinness book of world records for the brethren church And probably Amish Mennonite church too Matthias and I would like to ordain a hundred ministers of the gospel and start as many church plants before we die radical Anabaptist style underground churches Followers of Jesus whatever you want to call them So that's a little lofty But uh, we got to have leasing goals so we can come down along the stars if we missed the moon Okay, I'm going to uh Step aside and I'm going to let uh Brother let's go first with brother Trent Okay I don't think any of us are Confused by the fact that our age is fraught with quite a number of distractions and I've chosen to talk to you tonight about one that is somewhat abstract But I trust you understand I It was probably 10 years ago Maybe more like 15 years ago. I took about a three-year fast from media And I was visiting with an older brother who Is no longer alive no longer with us And he offered this thought and I'm going to offer this same thought to you He said brother Are you sure? That god intends for us to be infinitely distracted With the affairs that are going on all across the world at any given moment at precise points In every day and I thought yes, that is A very interesting thought Now we need to understand that Perhaps in the last 75 years maybe just slightly longer than that The world of media has radically changed And specifically I'm speaking about news media But the idea that we can be Fed Breaking news at every hour of the day that is up to the moment or up to the minute Is relatively new in the world scene And I think our grandparents would remember a time when there was a delay of of one or two days perhaps and and things like that But I guess what I'm worried about is allowing modern media To take our attention And keep us focused on events that happen far across the world And I'm not saying it's wrong to be concerned with those But but but being infinitely concerned with the russian ukraine conflict for instance And yet During that that period of tension or that period of uncertainty that I have in my In my life, I fail to see the very real needs and the very real struggles And the very real lost souls that exist within just a few miles or a few Hundred yards of my own residence. Is that is that clear what I'm trying to say there? And so I just I just wrote this down this distraction can cause us to fail To see the biblical ultimatum of following christ in everyday life effective discipleship preserving purity of truth And purposeful evangelism in our home communities as being of vital importance I just want you to think about that just a little bit And I want to make another very clear point as I say this and and again, I want you to hear this clearly. I am not against Understanding I think it's important That we know what is going on that we see the the signs on the horizon But I have a fear I have a very clear fear that we do not appreciate enough what god is doing in this world With the barrage of negativity and the barrage of information about war and strife and famine And all of those things and we are not looking cleanly enough At the god of heaven and understanding as clearly as we should be The the the stirring and the moving And the and the presence of the holy spirit across this world And and that's just a that's just a real a real part of life And you know some of us i'm afraid Have this testimony That the last thing I see at night is a is a little screen about this big And perhaps the first thing in the morning That I see is a little screen about this big and I wonder what the fruit of that is brethren Can you have deep fellowship with god after fox news has tantalized you with the latest scandals? And I think it's just something we need to think about as god's people Making a commitment to make sure That our eyes are fastened on jesus, you know, we know those scriptures in hebru's 12 perhaps the second verse Very very well Let's say looking unto jesus The author and the finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross Despising the shame and is now seated at the right hand of god the father But I want to ask you tonight and when we're talking about distractions are your eyes fastened upon The beautiful things that god is doing in this world at this present day and making and causing faith to rise And I think i'm almost out of time, but I wanted to go to a couple of scriptures in matthew 24 Just to categorize this a little bit You don't have to turn here But it said in jesus answered and said unto them Take heed That no man deceive you Could you detect From the modern news media that god is alive And working and moving and stirring among his people Or can we be deceived that this world is falling apart at the seams And and it very well may be true many of those things, but i'm afraid that it takes our eyes Off of our lord jesus and off those beautiful things that god is doing For many shall come in my name saying i am christ and shall deceive many And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars See that you be not troubled For all these things must come to pass But the end is not yet For nations shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom And there shall be famines and pestilences and earthquakes and diverse places All these are the beginning of sorrows And i'm not sure how far i want to read here But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world For a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come And why i read those verses I guess just centered around this theme right here Is that we do already know The ultimate reality that is coming on this world and it it does not do us a lot of good to sit And wring our hands at the things that christ has so explicitly explained Will come shall come shall proceed and all of that But there are a tremendous amount of things that that our lord jesus and god is doing in this world That would encourage us and cause us to rise up and take away some of the negativity in our own hearts If we would allow that and i i think that's probably all i need to say About that at this point, okay, awesome. Thank you very much. You take your seat. Yes, sir Okay, we have a farm market And through this whole covet pandemic a plant planned excuse me a pandemic if i can say that right I put some signs out and i said jesus says let not your heart be troubled now I didn't even they're just my hand painted signs and and my kids are like dad You've got to make it look nicer than that anyhow another sign i put out was uh, dr. Linus pauling says take A minimum of 5 000 and up to 30 000 He won two Nobel prizes by the way and somebody said well so did barack obama, but anyhow, but beside the point Uh, sometimes i'd like to take sign i'm like i get so I'm like lord. I'd like to just paint a big sign of i'd like to speak to the present age or to the present What did jesus do when he was here? And brothers, what do you think? With some thoughts that two questions that you have for Trent Now i might also say uh, joe, where's joe? Joe uh on the on our program joe come on up quickly you want us i asked him to say something here Joe curts Yeah, sure. I just wanted to mention or nathan asked me to mention that While this is going on it's not too late. You can still submit questions For the panelists and if nathan keeps this moving along We may be able to get to them so watch the clock, but you can submit them and Go to the website go to the 2023 events page Scroll down and there's a there's a button you can click on that says submit questions for the panel And at the very end i'll be bringing those up. Thank you, sir So we most likely will circle back around somebody else will have go ahead elisha Brother trend. I really appreciated the comment that you made about keeping our focus on the lord jesus himself and and also about um The lord has prophesied many of the things that will happen around the world in a general sense Brother, do you think that we should be informing ourselves for the uh for the So that we can be praying and and all of that or should we just Stay out of it or should we partially be partially involved? Do you have any any thoughts on that? So i did know that this is the part that would get me into trouble um I i do want to be very clear that that we need to be watching we need to be aware But at some level we've got to be able to understand that There are many things that we absolutely cannot control And a lot of us are living in anxiety about world events that that really there is There is really almost nothing you can do in your everyday life And and this this doesn't sound right because I was going to say besides prayer and that's That's a terrible thing to say. That's one of the most important things that we can do. Amen It should be calling us to prayer But I just sense as I talk to people that That it is entirely possible to get far too wound up in this And and we need to keep that focus that we are looking for the lord's return We're we're looking at world events and And yet not saturated with it Because the other side of that is the fact that we do need to be looking for what god is doing And and your your national medias are not going to give you that We need to look to other sources sometimes Ed what do you think? My name is kevin. I mean kevin. Sorry. I was thinking of your cousin. He knows my cousin Yeah, his cousin. We had a fight. So you asked the question. What did jesus deal? How did he respond to the current political scene if you go back and look at the current political scene? It probably had just as much of excitement going on Just as much of division just as much of as much of a drama Did he say much about it? Was he engaged in protest? Was he engaged in? Correcting one side versus the other Just didn't hear much about it And so I don't really have a question. I would just make a comment that I think it's simple what you absorb Is who you'll become let's not Fuller I mean the any person you're going to fool is yourself Okay, yes trend Okay, I want to say one more thing about this. He helped me jogged my memory just a little bit So I thought a little bit about jesus And I think we could safely say that that at that point in time There was no one in the world that knew more about world conditions than christ did Wow, but but you didn't see anything but a A keen focus on serving god and meeting the needs that were right at hand around him Praise god. Well, that's exciting. We'll circle around. Thank you so much uh, elisha We'll go next to you come on forward And this is called the distraction of pop-up theology now, we'll also say brother martin brother Joel's father and mother have a book table facing infotain infotainment technologies Evolution beyond human Daniel ray mast It's available on their book stand pick that up, please Yes, sir All right, so I decided to choose a title that hopefully will help us to remember this I called it pop-up theology Now this is actually a term that's being used And there's apparently a leader of a megachurch that actually wrote a book And called it pop-up theology But I feel like there's a distraction that's facing the church today Hosea 4 verse 6 says my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge And so one of the distractions which I feel the church of today is facing is what I have chosen to call pop-up theology What I am about to share is for everyone, but I would especially like to invite the youth to pay attention In recent years, there has been a proliferation of religious ideology Spread through social media platforms music movies, etc So much of this pop-up theology is old heresy Covered with a skimpy varnish of christian terminology The reason it often influences people is because it often contains a measure of truth And yet so often is only a half truth It leaves out important balancing truths Or it mixes truth with error Its supposed truth has usually not been forged on the anvil of suffering Or been prayed through The underlying influence is often humanistic It lifts up self Instead of encouraging people to take up the cross and die to self I'll probably step on some toes here, but that's all right I'm prepared for that To be specific several influences that have been circulating among the anabaptist people The chosen series The Kendrick brothers movies CCM music christian contemporary music Songs with poor theology And a barrage of humanistic ideology which is often spread through social networking WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram, etc Following are several specific points which concern me I am concerned about movies which are produced by people who do not profess faith in christ They are not trying to build christ's kingdom On social media platforms you find phrases like just be yourself Or follow your dreams Or don't give up that's not who you are Follow your heart It's focused on me On on it's a humanistic focus All of this is producing what we might call Indoctrination through osmosis It's usually a slow almost imperceptible influence in people's lives So often there's a mixture of truth and error Someone who is undiscerning will likely swallow the whole thing not realizing the danger or that it might be a half truth Sometimes the biggest problem is not so much what is said, but what is left unsaid And the reason i'm using the term pop-up is because all this stuff is being thrown at us without our invitation Before the days of electronic communication information was spread either orally or through books Now with this bombardment of entertainment theology It is so easy for our youth to be distracted from deep genuine bible study So the true knowledge of god is always christ centered It takes the way of the cross It is bible based It is holy spirit illuminated And made personal through practical experience often suffering Pop-up theology is peer oriented It's it's spread among peers it is humanistic I remember going to an to a concert where there was almost entirely Anabaptist people And I want to be careful here. I don't want to throw stones, but the one song was Focused on Show me who I am show me who I am show me who I am I said lord show me who you are I know that i'm not worth looking at Little or no mention of the cross Of repentance of the blood of christ Of resurrection life and power of the holy spirit There's usually a tragic mixture of truth and error That's what rat poison is made of Good and evil good and bad food and poison And that's what we have with this Barrage of pop-up theology So how can we combat this distraction? I've listed a few things here. There could be many more Study the scriptures Pray and meditate on the scriptures So often we read our bibles and then just quickly go on We need to develop the the uh the habit of praying and meditating on the scriptures Listen to the holy spirit speaking to us personally and corporately through the scriptures And this last one here is something I want us all to pay attention to Cultivate personal relationships between older mature believers and younger believers A survey done several years ago revealed that about 75 percent Of the influence coming into the lives of youth in christian homes today in america Is coming from their peers And that's a huge problem I would like to challenge Hmm something Disappeared on my phone here I would like to challenge the older believers here to be proactive in discipling younger believers And I would like to challenge the younger believers to actively seek counsel from older believers on a regular basis So that's all I have Okay We uh What do what do you fellows think who wants to start us out? philip Well, I say hearty a man to that brother but to ask a uh fake question Should I only read books of people who were dead 200 years ago or 300 years ago Or should I only listen to Songs by those that were you know at least 200 years Ago who actually wrote them Um good, or is there is there a place in tom to enjoy some more modern? Contemporary in the sense of more recent Ritzen and also maybe a more updated style. Is there ever a place in time to listen to Music like that or is there a place in time to read books by Even Protestant friends of ours who are contemporaries You can answer that question if you don't mind Yeah, so I actually do read a lot of Old authors that have been dead for several hundred years That's probably the the largest percentage of what I read But I also do read some some uh contemporary books but The whole thing of of praying and meditating on the scriptures and filling ourselves with the scriptures That prepares us to Uh to distinguish what is good and what's not good And so certainly there's there's a lot of You know literature and books out there that's really inspiring But there's also a lot that's not And so the question about Protestant sources Uh personally I have been very positively influenced by Protestant sources. I have But I still consider myself an Anabaptist And um I believe that God has one church The bible tells us very clearly there's one church one body And if we if we reject other members of Christ's body Uh simply because of their affiliation, I think we cut off some of the blessing that God is would would give us And so personally I do I do songs. I do listen to some Songs that have been written recently, but there again, we must filter it all through God's word How would you navigate that so what's what's safe to read and what's safe to listen to Is rick warren safe is joe lusting. Okay Um, how would you uh guide us in some of those questions Of more recent authors like that Yeah, I'm not quite sure why you mentioned joe lusting because I think he's the one that wrote the book on the pop-up theology But um, so I guess the concern that I really have is that the older and the younger need to partner together That's the burden on my heart I talked to a brother an older brother a few years ago and and he was talking about some of the the The menonite conferences that kind of slid over into liberalism and modernism and I asked him I said You know, I know that some people would blame missions as the cause of that. I said, what do you see brother? You're older He said, you know what? I think it was he said there was a disconnect between the older and the younger The younger were going and getting higher education the older were perceived as more ignorant and so the younger got together among themselves and and they were just They were influencing each other and the whole group of of younger the younger generation just slid off into Worldliness and he felt as if if they would have anchored themselves to the older That would have kept them and I think the same thing is exactly what we're facing today Trent you got a comment. You got it. Okay. I really appreciate this discussion and One of the keys I'd like to just have you explain a little bit more Right here the disconnect between the older and the younger Could you give some advice for Young people as to how to approach older people? And I realized we older ones need to be more proactive in in reaching out But how would you suggest for a young person that's seeking answers seeking guidance To approach someone that has wisdom and understanding Well, I think the younger ones should do that I did that to brother lin martin Kevin gave credit to lin and I want to do the same thing lin was Was a very approachable leader But I heard a comment recently someone said that it is not the responsibility of the younger to seek the older It is the responsibility of the older to go find the younger And I I believe that's biblical Wow Okay, we're gonna go on You know, we could talk about music also The bridge, oh, you know when you know We don't want to start tearing out pages out of our hymn book In fact, our family just recently learned to sing a johnny cash song. Sorry john d martin Uh And I I said to the people who were getting a little nervous. I maybe they were going to get nervous I decided to inform them before I said, you know, we we just sang I heard you guys sing martin luther's A mighty fortress is our god and he tortured a few of your relatives Or his people did and I didn't hear johnny cash Been burning anybody lately Or anybody so So at our store we we we had uh, we had the 18 cds of uh, roy gingrich and the group there from uh, what's it called? Altura praise. I mean Just like spectacular, you know And now we have a lot more uh cds playing We always got good music and it's turned the volumes loud enough that people have to make a decision They either start moving with the songs as they come in our store Or they give us an email says your music's too loud And so I I tear up I go through the store. I hear power and I'm like, oh man, what are people thinking? You know, uh, so I'm very thankful yet. We have a platform But you know, it's getting a little a little more the praise and worship, you know the church of christ and You know, I like some of those songs, but uh, where are we going? Um anyhow, it's a it's a bridge. So I guess What could we say, uh, we need to be wide read And listen widely, but just don't listen don't follow The direction that people are going That's that's a tall order and you guys your fathers you're gonna have to explain that to your children You're gonna have to work it out Can I say something? Yes, sir so We heard a lot about what we shouldn't listen to and Do you know why? We're so influenced by Modern christianity It is because they have good teachers and they have produced a lot of books The weakness of the historic faith And a baptist is that we have not produced a lot of books and writers. So I know we got Different people attempting to do that. Um, but I want to encourage us to start writing more Uh, if if we don't have books to turn to The younger generation will turn to the books that's available So let's step up to the plate. We got a whole That can be filled and I encourage everyone to do it And you know, and I'm going to say every generation we're looking for life All you brothers, we know we've been down this road. We want life. We want something alive We want a compelling faith. We don't want something that's just stuck and you know Do it because I said you need to do it. We want something that really works You know down in our area, you know, we uh, there's a few folks still handle some snakes Not necessarily recommend that to you but uh, you know, we like to see some action and movement All right, let's go on to the next one here Maybe we need to get a little more excited as excited about making money as we are about Uh start in churches Amen start in kingdom. We're a little kingdom Nooks. All right, let's go on to the next one. Uh, brother philip materialism The temptation of materialism Hey distraction of materialism Many of our communities are caught up and consumed With stuff and things and with making lots and lots of money In fact, many anabaptists today Are known for being industrious and wealthy You can drive through any one of our larger communities. You'll soon see you see lots of industry and lots and lots of wealth The kingdom of god has become secondary and the physical has become the primary for many of our people and their communities In fact even Often the church elder is far from being exempt from this distraction of materialism the church missions and the lossals around come behind business money and temporal pursuits lots of nice farms big houses expensive vehicles Thriving businesses and pleasant elaborate vacations Have become way too normal for our people But little investment Little time and little sacrifice is made for the kingdom Little effort is made to reach lost Myriads of souls around the globe We're slow to disrupt our soft comfortable cozy quiet lives for the sake of christ and his gospel We'll sacrifice the kingdom over our businesses Money often means more to us in the kingdom of god Often far too often our own souls are lean and sickly Far too often we lack the power of god in our own lives spiritual poverty Is all too normal and sadly even at times expected of our churches But our banking accounts and businesses are fats and flourishing Because we have become consumed with materialism We often mistake covetousness for industriousness We often mistake greediness for good stewardship We often mistake a materialistic person for being simply an opportunist I think in short We have found clever ways to baptize our covetousness We have found convenient slick clever ways to justify our love for money And you know and this right here is true worldliness I'm burdened and concerned about drift and carnality and the cool spirit and fads and fashions But this right here is worldliness Christ said after all these things the Gentiles were seeking and in my kingdom it should look different But does it? Are we worldly? You know i'm not advocating poverty and sale and all that you have and being just a popper Rather it's about priority. What do you love in life and what are you pursuing? What's the ambition deep in your heart? Is it money? And business and your security Business can be a tool and business even can be a great tool for the kingdom But materialism is never okay And loving money is a sin and even idolatry Hard work and diligence is the virtue that I want to just appraise and appreciate Hard work is good and being industrious is commendable But the focus on money And our accumulation of money is the problem Right there and the result of all this Is the that we have today lots of cold sleepy powerless churches The result of this do we have a lot of carnal young people Who don't have much of a passion for the kingdom Don't much have a heart for god and sacrificing for the kingdom They love pleasure recreation fun and social events that are empty and light and frivolous Also the result is that we have lost the glory of god in our churches Too often we have Ichabod on the church doors the glory hath departed So I want to challenge us today. I want to challenge you tonight to stop justifying our materialism Stop baptizing that sin. I want to challenge us to repent of our love for money I want to challenge you to begin to seek first the kingdom And to set your heart and affections on things above I want to challenge you to begin to gaze at the eternal and let that recalibrate your priorities in life Get a hold of those realities and have it affect your bank and accounts and your business And when this happens When this really happens, we will see revival once again in our day. I'm convinced When this happens We'll begin to impact our world for god again I believe this matter Is at the heart and the core of our lukewarmness and may god help us Man let's just give an older call Whoa You think he's right Huh Elisha, you're just a missionary down there in Mexico You know you're you probably don't have a big business, but you know Uh, I don't have a big business But I I come to the us periodically and the biggest culture shock I have is coming this way not going that way But I I don't really have a question, but I have one comment I'd like to make sometimes we See older brothers Uh concerned about the passions of the younger brothers And their sports and things like that But sometimes the older brothers don't consider that their passions are just as Unrestrained in their big businesses and some of those pursuits the the um There's the the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes and the pride of life And sometimes the older men are caught up in the pride of life just as much as the young men In the lust of the flesh and so I just want to say amen, brother. That's that was very good. I stand behind that Now, uh, thank you Elisha Trent you work for cam Uh, I mean these folks are hard-working people out here and they give lots of money and they give their Their, uh investments a way to cam Now he was stepping on you guys's toes. I mean if we wouldn't be working hard like this and be Be, uh, uh, you know movers and shakers, uh, you guys wouldn't have any money to operate and all those missions Trent you're on Okay, I thought that would come Well, so so this is uh, this is a real reality, but I don't necessarily want this to temper the ultimate Message that that our dear brother was putting out there Because it is about priority But but there is some reality and I'm going to ask brother Philip a question about this You know for those of us who have lived overseas for numerous years you do begin to realize that That if everyone at home lived hand to mouth Um, there would not be a lot of mission work and a lot of effective things that happen across the world Um, but that being said the the priority of how that is done. We are not Tapping the potential Among our people we we're keeping most of that to ourselves There is so much more work that could be done in the world And so I want to I want to ask our dear brother Philip how how he would see Or perhaps give some examples from their family business how you you channel the bulk of that That resource and income into the kingdom of god Good question. I'll try to answer that. Um And I said there that business can be a tool and even a great tool for the kingdom and I am all for business I'm all for even some larger businesses But what I would love to see is every successful business owner Driving about a five thousand dollar car or less You got me or less And if you could be giving about 90 percent of your income or more that would be commendable The problem is that we use our businesses for selfish purposes It goes back into our own pockets back into our own high-class rides And we're driving cars that are way beyond the value that kingdom cars should be And we're taking all these elaborate vacations and big Honeymoons and everything else and it's all for our own lust instead of it being for god's kingdom It's for your own status and that is wrong When your business being successful shows up in your rides and your status of life Something's wrong there That should be given right to the kingdom to this dear brother here for cam And you should be living on a pretty slim salary And giving the bulk of that to the kingdom So I think therein we air a lot right there Is it if my business is successful then god's blessed me so I should I should express that and enjoy that And that's wrong. That's wrong I think we baptize our covetousness way too much And i'm all for having a successful business, but why not give it to the kingdom Almost make into a non-profit Business for you, but profitable for the lord And if we could get a hold of that reality, I think it'd do us a lot of good And let your children taste some poverty though. You're wealthy Let your children enjoy some nice More rusty vehicles because you want to give to the kingdom lay up treasure where the never rust No stocks will affect it. No crash will ever affect That up there and so I think we do well to heed this And to go home and maybe sell some cars Maybe go home and Consider even downsizing your house An endeavor to be among those who are lowly and humble and broken because we want to reach them people Around us, but also frankly give more to the kingdom It'll do you good and your children a world of good if you get a hold of more of that value in your life Wow That was like john the baptist preaching who That's that's that's that's amazing. Let's just stop right there Okay next kevin Folks, this is to pique your interest And to get discussion going in your next group session And throughout the weekend and takes these this is not going to answer your question It's just to whet your appetite and to get your creative juices flowing. So praise god. Thank you so much Man, you're you're really radical Wow My fresh flesh was recoiling. I mean we drove holy vans And they'd say here comes a holy man. He looked like me. He was driving He said a holy man in his holy man the kids made fun of us Man, I don't like that. I'd like to save my children some of that embarrassment brother Embrace the cross he says Well, I already moved to Tennessee and I had my children give up their youth group and all their friends and comfortable business and You still think I should give up more Whoo get ready children A Holy man in his holy man. Yeah, get ready dad. That's more like it. Amen. Oh, man Okay All right, so my ideas aren't quite as lofty as the other three when I think of church success I think of what does it take to have a healthy church and we can Talk about a lot of high ideals and throw around Lofty ideas, but what does it take at home for you in your church to be successful? That's my question and When they sent me the list of distractions and temptations my first thought went to gossip Now why gossip Does gossip what does gossip do so I want to do two things do you understand What gossip actually does or how bad it is number one? But then more importantly I want to influence you of how to resolve gossip and what to do on the other side So we can tell you how terrible gossip is Have you ever read the bible? that talks about How what gossip actually does I'm just going to read a couple verses and um What's your gut reaction when you hear about the word gossip? Do you feel the same way when you think of you heard Someone committed adultery Like does it do anything Does gossip bother you? Or should it bother you? I mean, it's it's read a couple verses here So it says um, they were filled with all manner of unrighteousness evil covetousness malice It says they're full of envy murder strife deceit maliciousness They're gossips For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish and that you may find me not as you wish they perhaps There may be quarreling jealousy anger hostility slander gossip concede and disorder It's a part of the strong language is gossip So this is what happens with gossip It's this idea of discussing About others you talk about things that you really shouldn't talk about about other people Now what you don't know it does two things to you that you're not aware of Number one is what it does to you of how you feel towards that brother Your you don't realize what that does And then we say we want to have healthy churches And we're discussing one another Okay, the second thing it does Is if I talk about brother Nathan here Negatively who do you know back there john martin? All right if I tell john martin What it does to their relationship Okay So you get this process going I happen to have meetings here With individuals in this audience And the churches Are struggling to be united At the root of it. It's massive gossip So how do you combat gossip? What is the most effective way to combat gossip prayer? Actually, I would disagree with that. It's a good thing to do Even something better To talk a good report about your brothers and sisters That's the only thing that should come out of your mouth about your about one another Now what does that do how you feel towards your brothers and sisters feel good It builds up what do to do if I talk good about john to you I'm gonna respect him and love him more And even vice versa. It builds up We don't realize what this does among us Okay. Well, listen at the table you know Ronald Reagan says all great change in america gets done around the the dinner table And and you know, I mean we want to have interaction with our children and we want to talk about the things of the day and I mean, it's okay to talk about people. Isn't it? I mean, it's just the news Uh Go for it Kevin So when the brothers were talking about media I was wondering how much of it is gossip Okay, now, what is what is Kevin clarify a little bit for us? What is the definition Of gossip, I mean, I mean, I mean, can't we say anything about anybody? I mean, do I have to just be quiet and I mean That's like an out-of-body experience Definition a person who eventually reveals personal and sensational facts Not not ideas facts about others That sounds like the news say it again Then Trent you're next go ahead say it again a person who habitually would you say habitually and sensationally? reveals Facts about others Okay, I'm going to address the moderator here for just a minute Oh, man But but seriously I heard a beautiful song come from their family this morning that I would like him to repeat some of those words That that was a That that was a deeply moving Moving song this morning. Could you just repeat that or maybe sing it for us? I hear people talking about people most everywhere I go To hear them talking they were there when it happened. There's nothing that they don't know You may not approve of the things I do, but if you're going to talk about me Make sure what you're saying is done while you're praying and please say it on your knees Yeah, I can never the second verse says I can never Don't tell your neighbor for he can never give me the grace to see me through. All right. Thank you, brother Brother Kevin, I really appreciate this and I think I'd like to hear more about combating gossip and You know, I thought of a verse. I think of often Maybe one of the most difficult verses in the New Testament to To reach But Philippians two would tell us that in lowliness of mind Let each esteem others better than themselves And would that be an effective way to To minimize this temptation or distraction 100% I would say that's at the root of it Another way to help combat it is in your church When you find yourself talking encourage the Culture in your church. It's a buzzword right now to have healthy culture You know, it's healthy culture culture in churches healthy culture in your business healthy culture in Communities all this is a big buzzword. So let's use it for the good. You want something healthy Have your brothers and sisters tell you when you're gossiping Be open to that I promise you if somebody tells you that once or twice Ouch very effective. Whoo. I enjoy it. I want to know um In our church, we have really tried to become sensitive to that And I would say it's not our theology That makes a healthy church per sat It can maybe destroy it at levels But the healthiness is how you relate to one another Like you want to you want someone To come to your church Have a safe culture in your church Safe culture to confess And that it won't get gossiped about It's a safe place. You're going to have people show up. You don't want to do with But if you have an unsafe church, they're not going to show up So it's up to each of us to be Those people and not to gossip. I think it's huge. I think it's way worse than we realize I don't think I realize how easy it is to gossip So I think it's a constant development that we learn. It's not a one-time event It's it we develop that sensitivity But we need one another to help help us learn that That's powerful So I'm going to take that home to our church and to my family first of all And I'm going to ask my children to when I start gossiping to raise their hand And to Admonish me I'm going to try that My dad used to do that and he would stop us and he'd say, uh, whoa, whoa, whoa He says, uh, they're not here to defend themselves And so he would stop us. I need to do a little more of that Thank you more comments here Elisha So I have a question for you, Kevin You mentioned about not saying anything behind someone's back that would be About their negative actions or anything like that. So the bible Tells us things that people did that were not good Uh, do you have any comments on that? It's like the bible tells us that David Sinned with basheba for example, right? That wasn't a nice thing And it does tell us that So do we ever have the right to say things like that about someone or should we not talk about things like that? Should we always just talk about the good things? Uh, very good It won't hurt. You don't talk about the good things I think you're going to become A lot more appreciative of your brothers and sisters If somebody does something wrong, is it wrong to make a comment? But see gossip doesn't ever stop at the stop that it wants to continue Did you hear did you hear And after a thousand things that said I mean, have you ever heard a story? That after it's been I mean you look at this group here if we started a story in the back God only knows what it would be until it got up here Um, so yeah, I mean let's let's just be realistic about it Um, let's focus on good report. I think it's very very Powerful and a witness of a world that is bombarded by news and negativity If you want something different have a different culture among us Now, uh, that just for anyhow, I'm gonna throw this out as I was thinking about your talk, kevin That word busy body means a lotrial pishkapas, which means a bishop A an elder who's Reaching into another elder's Bishop or his area of of labor and meddling with his affairs Sorry, he's trying to help him. Yeah, he's trying to help praise god Poor guy Poor brother, excuse me poor elder Uh, hmm Busy bodies. Hmm. Okay. Well, this is good stuff. Uh, we have more questions coming Come on, joe Okay, here's somebody's handed me something gossip a three-part definition bad news From a bad heart behind someone's back Knees with knees. Awesome. We're right Yes Okay Okay, if you got any more questions set them in we're not going to take them all but we'll We'll go down through a few Elisha I'm so excited to hear of your vision to start churches ordain elders and empower young men Do short-term missions divert time and money from these visions So over the years we've had a number of short-term people come and spend time with us I was telling you the story of the young man who joined me for a night out on the Uh in the wilderness and we got wed and all of that that was a short-term trip But today that young man is serving in the mountains with the title amount of people and so Um over the years many people have come and wanted to do a short-term trip And they want to be a blessing to us and I tell them well, that's great But the blessing is going to go to you you're coming to learn and hopefully get a vision But we're not really expecting you to do much for them for the mission itself Okay Philip an anabaptist preacher once said If god has not called you to mission work He has called you to earn money to support the missionaries. What are your thoughts on this idea? An anabaptist preacher once said if god has not called you to mission work He has called you to make money for the missionaries Well, that's not scriptural. I wouldn't say necessarily. Um, there's no verse that says that in my bible But the principal I think does hold some truth. Yes, sir But I would say that we're all to be active in the kingdom Aren't we all missionaries? I thought we were all missionaries. That's a good point Very good point. So I would say if you're not called to foreign work Then you're called to local work is how I would see that And that may be making a lot of money To give to the kingdom. Amen not for your own use but for the kingdom And so I would say The uh, the the need of the hour isn't so much money as much as personnel people who are Equipped and ready to be a vessel for god to use so god's need is not so much money as Able workers and so if you have a Heart to give amen Give it and give it liberally and be a cheerful giver But I would say, uh, make sure your motives are pure in that and that you have Came to god and god has made that very clear to you And I would say ideally through your ministry and through the holy spirit That that should be your main purpose. I would I would wonder if the purpose Should be that you would seek god about being a labor locally if not foreign first of all But maybe that could be a good one to be engaged in is giving to the kingdom but give it liberally not as a side project Okay, thank you You fellows if you got something to say also Just speak up real quickly Okay, Trent Do you have recommended sources for news? That we won't get addicted to You know what I'm not sure that I want to choke up a little bit there brother choke it up All right, we'll make sure it gets nice and loud. I'm not sure that I necessarily want to endorse sources Um But I do think that that we should be careful You know and grade those things um And basically basically temper Our time now something that I have noticed I you've heard me mention fox news several times They're kind of heralded as you know the conservative news outlet in the in the united states today But I I have observed just in my in my time with them that they are also very Very quick to give you the scandalous bits the You know the little pieces that have shameful and modesty Those things are all very near to the front probably more than some other Some other outlets and and I think we need to be really careful about that um And so I guess I'm going to be dumb enough to say you know what I don't actually have a complete answer for that And I'm not sure I want to just recommend Specific sources there are a number of very good news outlets that that do attempt to be unbiased and attempt to to grade their their materials fairly well Some of you probably know those better than I do But but I think we need to just take care and and keep this in our the top of our consciousness Okay, uh kevin In response to brother kevin's comments about gossip What about discussing what we should do as churches? If there is another church that is allowing a brother to continue in sin So this church is allowing another brother to continue in sin. We think and and we're like man, you know, we should Maybe we should help out a little bit here Uh, is that gossip? I don't know. It sounds like that definition that you talked about earlier About busy bodies getting in other people's business Yes I guess my point is like it's not profitable. Let's talk about things that are profitable It's really where I want to take it And like every there's this temptation to think that if we talk about a problem Will help it and contribute it just seldom brings A healthy response it seldom does we don't realize it And I really want to direct people and push people towards learning to speak The best about every brother and sister and like and i'm not this idiotic idealistic person Uh, I actually think it's a real thing that we can accomplish. I think it's very attainable It's very workable. So I think that builds builds churches. So are you afraid of me? Am I afraid of you? Yes Not really not yet. Not yet. Well, okay So but you don't really know me, but i'm going to talk to you about some concerns. We call it concerns In the church your concerns about you know Situations i'm from another state. Will you have the courage to tell me? Uh, I think you're gossiping. I probably would would you really bad? That's awesome Yeah, another way that gossip comes up is through prayer request Woo praise god prayer request Amen How many y'all agree with that one? Oh, did you see that Kevin? All right next Uh, elisha And trend we talked about giving most of our wealth to missions because we need to live more simply And yet a lot of the money is given That let a lot of the money given is used to keep the missionaries comfortable And above the living standards of the people we're trying to reach your thoughts, please Now we're all going to come down and see where you live You beat me to it. That's exactly what I was going to say So, um The home we live in now. I did not build the house. It was built by someone else And uh, so it's okay. It's bigger than some of my neighbors. It is You know, I have more children than they do to live in the in a cave in the side of the mountain I used to live in a tent I lived in a tent for three and a half months And then we tried your your your your your car tire sandals in at the border or where are they? Those are pretty I used to use car tire sandals And I hiked door to door for five years And then I did it for another five years part-time But I began to realize that the natives themselves were bringing the the new people in and it wasn't from my efforts And so I quit hiking as much Um, and so at this point my my focus is more leadership development But we started out in a one room adobe and stone house It was very very similar to the natives But I I do want to say I was I have been very very thankful for the the uh, the donations that have come in over the years There have been godly people Who live on a higher standard than what I would be comfortable with And I'm not here to judge them or gossip about them And I am very very thankful and grateful to the generous people that have donated over the years Some of them were have been very wealthy people some very poor people But I am so thankful and so grateful to every one of them. And so Um, I don't really have a lot of negative things to say, but I just want to encourage us You know, the bible says that if we give That we lay up treasure in heaven We shouldn't be given because we have to we should be given because we have a vision for laying up treasures in heaven You're next But john always says john d says that god loves a hilarious giver Because god is hilarious that word joyful is hilarious And I've been trying to teach my children that Give away Just watch and see what god's going to do. Let's not keep our hands closed This is really beautiful and god's been showing giving us some opportunities for my children to just see dad Okay trend That is um an interesting question I will say this from Our time we spent in africa You know, we really didn't understand everything when we went we went with a heart of desire And ultimately over time we made some very deliberate choices to sell off vehicles that our mission had Had to use I said I can't drive this You know, there's got to be a way to get ourselves To identify more with the people that we are trying to reach And we didn't do that well enough. That's that's probably one of my biggest regrets And you know the the compound where we lived was was more secure than than the people we were reaching You know could experience on daily life Or in their daily existence You know, and so I think it's really is something that we need to to be conscious of On the other hand, I think one of the things and this is this is my opinion But I think one of the things that has driven this idea of of money going to make A Comfortable lifestyle for the missionary is because it's so hard to get people to go And so you pray the lord of the harvest that he'll raise up laborers to to to go in And yet you almost have to to buy them into That position To make that happen and so I don't completely fault How that works at times? I don't like it Um, I wish, you know, there was was a different way But you know, sometimes it is it's even ignorance. I think that happens that You know, we are so comfortable I I just want to tell you You you go live in a in a third world or a developing country for a few years And you will not stop praising god For the blessings we have to have a road that that you can drive on and not fear potholes And and healthcare and all of those things we are insulated beyond Or even our own understanding or our own comprehension And so therefore we feel like You know, even the smallest steps downward you might say Are almost too difficult and and somehow Somehow we've got to do better at bridging that gap And and addressing those Those needs I do appreciate people that that will step out and and forsake some comforts But I think we need to do better At at being more intentional about living among the people That we that we go to reach and not isolating ourselves From them Some of the most precious stories that I could tell you are about times You know when we we ate rat meat and we We we drank things that That you just could hardly Imagine how you're going to come out of it alive And yet those were the very moments Where deep friendships and and and the potential of the gospel Came into our experience And so And so, you know, I don't know all the answers to this But I do know there's deep needs in the world and there is so much more that we can be doing And and I'm gonna I'm just gonna climb up on a soapbox here for a minute. I don't want to ask for this Um, but back to this idea of of Businesses and how this how this can work. I wish that we would get a vision For our businesses to serve the kingdom of god We have potential that is so massive In our anabaptist world that that we hardly even realize it And what little things can we do even in our own communities? Okay, and and we have this problem right here It's not just over in the foreign field that that the the standard and the level of living that we often experience Is pretty difficult to attain but But but what can we do? There there are people that will never attend a church They will never come to an assembly like this and yet you work side by side with them every day And how can we turn our workplace and our business into a gospel machine praise god amen Come on, let's go This tomorrow let's let's get going. Let's let's uh We're out. I need to hang out with you brothers more Okay, one more question. We have about uh six more we can't Take i'm sorry. We'll take one more Kevin How does an abuse victim get help? to find healing Without and this could probably add with the counselor with the elder with family Without gossiping about the one who did the abusing Uh, first of all Kevin bad news from a bad heart. Would they have a bad heart? Do you think and sharing that? I actually would not call that gossip to go talk to someone to resolve an issue Um, I would encourage you to go whoever that is if it's a leader start with there if it needs to go to The authorities whatever kind of abuse it is it needs to it needs to go to the right people But then it needs to stay with them Do what you got to do to fix it and the leaders don't need to be gossiping about it either Uh, I think it's it's it's not hard to It's not complicated to handle Difficult situations. I mean Yeah, it might be complicated But we make it more complicated than it should like if there's an issue go talk to somebody Uh, that's not gossip, but don't tell 500 people that's not gossip. Yeah It's when you hear something and then you pass it on to the next person Um, it's it's not that difficult so in brotherhood And let's say this is a closed brotherhood right here. We're all brothers in the same congregation And one of us is overtaken in a sin king james and Those of you who are spiritual are restoring me And so you need to discuss it among yourselves How to do this and brother's meeting however we accomplish that And what forms of discipline or forgiveness or whatever restoration or help and accountability or whatever That's not gossip Am I correct? Yeah, and we try to keep it right Keep it within the people that needs to know about it and then it don't go further The problem is is learning to keep it there Um, I think you all know what I mean Okay, uh Philip do you have a word? Sure, but I would say if if i'm talking about a problem And In talking about it pertains or is an endeavor to resolve the problem Out of care for all parties Involved that's different That's being a peacemaker. That's helping heal things up. But if I am just passing on news And there's no goal to help fix the problem. I'm just passing on a juicy tidbit about so and so and so and so And it's just simply news That's not healthy, but if it's Talking about it as a brotherhood With care in our heart for this person Or talking about an issue I have that's that someone hurt me or abuse me It's all about trying to fix the problem. So I think it comes down to Does the issue pertain to you? And helping restore this mess for this problem Is it a redemptive effort or is it just simply news that is passed on? I think it the question is is does it pertain to you talking about it? Being healthy and helpful If so, it's probably a good thing But if it's simply just news and juicy tidbits, I think you should probably Not say a word at all and rather pray for the person And get a heart of love for the person instead of just enjoying talking about them because I think too often We find ourselves enjoying talking about people's problem because it makes us feel good I feel somehow improved or helped or Higher up because I'm talking about somebody else's issue and problem And that's never a loving caring heart and that is a dangerous thing