 Hey everybody, tonight we're debating First Amendment auditing and we're starting right now with ASEAN's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us ASEAN. The floor is all yours. All right, so thank you, James, for giving me a platform to explain my problem with First Amendment auditors. I'm going to do my best to steal man the argument for auditing. United States First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or the right of the people peacefully to assemble and to petition the government for redress grievances. Freedom of the press is the right of every unit citizen and a press pass is not required to be the press. First Amendment auditors are not the following. They are not sovereign citizens who reject their citizenship to the United States and reject U.S. Constitution. These people are dangerous in share information that can cause harm to people. They are not cop watchers who are out there to record and hold police accountable. Even those people are exercising their First Amendment right to do so. They are not auditors. They are not people who record their interactions with the government or the police in order to document the events. All government employees that interact with the public should be recorded during every interaction with the public. They are not fraudsters. Frauditors intentionally go out to be suspicious to draw attention to themselves, like holding their hand behind their back when a cop approaches, like they have a gun behind their back, walking around drunk in public when there are laws against it, or walking up to police being rude and belligerent about it to anger the cop. They will cover their face, walk stealthily, look like they are prowling, intentionally lick into and record the content of vehicles. Some of that is not a crime, but much of it is criminal or could create probable cause for arrest or a terry stop, depending on the local laws. Frauditors should be stopped immediately and should be condemned, especially the ones who call the police on themselves. This debate today is about First Amendment auditors. An auditor is an official inspector who performs an inspection of individuals or organization's accounts, typically by an independent body. But for the sake of this argument, I will concede that they do not have to have some official capacity and all citizens have a right to demand government transparency. A 1A auditor is someone who goes out and tests the system with the intent to find errors in the system, and sometimes I applaud such endeavors, but in a peaceful and civil manner that doesn't violate the will of others to record them, even in public, in order to see if the illicit and emotionally charged response. They are not trained at all, they don't always fully understand the law, they go to places where they are not conducting business in order to see if they can cause anxiety in someone and see if they will confront them and or call the police on them and then see how the police respond. These audits have exposed a lot of problems with police and we definitely need police reform, but they are not the proper way of auditing the government. Auditing that the government should be done by trained citizens that are elected by the public to hold the government accountable. Auditors fall into two main camps, the ones who film private business from public and the ones who film government business from public. First camp are private business auditors who stand out in front of a business on a public easement to film. Such actions can harm the profit of that business, discourage customers from diving by the camera because they don't want some rando dude recording them and or cause anxiety in the people who work there or the customers. All of those actions are immoral and should be condemned. They are not unlawful, but you should not intentionally go out to see if you can elicit anxiety, anger or fear. The next group of auditors go to government buildings to film in public areas of the building, which is lawful. The problem is that usually their only business is to film the government to see if the government will violate your rights or not, because you put them in fear or anxiety of what your actions are and intent actually are. If you have actual business and is really not an audit because you are there for business, you really don't have any reason to go to another town or another state to perform an audit, that should be up to the people who live in that town to address issues within their own town. Auditors go to these places for the sole purpose of filming and to get an emotional reaction from officials, which can expose corruption, but antagonizing people is not moral. There is also lots of overlap between the two types, and they often do both types of audits. My favorite auditor does both types of audit is Amogansett Press and his son watching the Watchmen. If you enjoy watching this content from auditors that is peaceful comment, then you should follow people like them. You shouldn't follow the people that are there trying to garner more views by trying to elicit a response by being antagonistic. I want to replace even the positive type of interactive auditors with elected officials who are trained in the law and in audit. I oppose both types of audits. Most of the time, they have no interaction so they get no views and make no money on YouTube. All they do is cause anxiety and fear in patrons and staff with their audits, and the positive interactions with people who already understand the law and your rights. Their fear and anxiety may be unreasonable, but it is real. These audits do actually elicit responses from concerned staff members who just want to know why you are there. The auditors usually refuse to explain what their intent is for filming, and while it does expose bad police and government officials sometimes, it is not the right way to do it. We do need to train our citizens about their rights, that most of the Bill of Rights is to protect us from overreacting government agents. The primary arm of the government that most citizens interact with are the police. The Bill of Rights is there to protect you from police snooping and being wrongfully charged for crime. I appreciate that these auditors are teaching people about their right to remain silent, a right to not answer questions without an attorney, and the right to be securing their papers and property. I could go on and on about how many of our rights are being violated by government agents, but that is a different debate. We need to educate our citizens and stop letting well intentioned, but mostly ill-informed auditors do the work for us. The proper way to do it is, as follows, reform our education system, peacefully protest, lobby your government, run for public office, attend town hall meetings, and hold debates right here on modern-day debates about reforming the government and the police. I want everyone who listens to this debate to become active, reform the police, and change our government. Thank you for listening. That ends my opening remarks. Thanks. That's it. Thank you very much for that opening statement, ASEAN, and I want to let you know, folks, if it's your first time here at modern-day debate, I want to let you know we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion, and politics, and we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from, whether you before or against auditing, we are thankful to have you with us. And with that, we're going to kick it over to Noly. Thanks for being with us, Noly. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. Hi. So, you have to forgive me. I'm not quite as prepared as ASEAN, but I really have one thing to say about First Amendment auditing. I believe in it wholeheartedly. I don't always agree with what tools or what ways people do their auditing in, but I believe that it is up to the public to do these things. Because when you elect somebody that's, you know, when you elect anybody into an office to do something, where there's people, there's going to be corruption. But when the public's doing it, there's going to be less corruption because they feel more alone. I think that based on our rights solely on this and no other reason, whether I agree with what somebody is doing or not, they have a right to do it. And because they have a right to do it, I fully support it. I will voice sometimes that I don't like what they're doing or how they're doing it, but I'm never ever going to tell them that they're wrong for doing it. I think that the Constitution gives us these rights that keep getting taken away from us or giving away. And it's because of those elected officials. I don't think we need any more elected officials to be up in it, because once someone's elected, they're all on the same team. I don't care if they're left or right. They're all on the same team. I do believe in the government or in a government, but not necessarily one such as what we have now. I think First Amendment Auditing is necessary. I think that every person who goes into a courthouse goes into a public building that is government building. They should be recording. They should have their cell phone going, and they should be recording every single second of it, because these people who work in these places all have a power trip. And they think that because they are in the position that they are in, they can abuse the public. They can neglect the public. They don't like the way you look or the way that you're talking to them. They can do significant harm to you by not helping you the way that you need help by them not doing their job. And as far as the police go, they should all be recorded not only from their own bodycams and dashcams, but if you see a cop have somebody pull over on the side of the road, pull over, please record them. You've got to thank you very much, Noly, for that opening statement. And want to give you guys some quick updates out there, as mentioned, thrilled to have you with us and also want to let you know we are thrilled for, as you can see at the bottom right of your screen, the first time ever modern day debate is putting on our own debate conference called debate con and it is going to be epic. It's going to be Saturday, January 15th through Sunday, the 16th in Dallas, Texas filmed in person. And so keep an eye out as we are excited to let you know about updates such as when tickets will be out as well as the crowdfund coming up and you don't want to miss these live debates as many of the debates will be live streamed that day for the public to see. And so if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as it is going to be epic. And with that, thanks so much, Noly and Ozzie and the floor is yours for that open conversation. So to me, maybe we have a difference in opinion to me is auditing is you're going out to test to see how the government responds and the people respond to what you're doing. Okay, do you do the so they're out there to see if they do cause anxiety and fear in the public or the government from their reactions to see if they do get a response. I don't think it is to incite fear in anybody. I think it is to see if they're going to get a response, not necessarily to incite a negative response. Do they actually incite negative responses? I think that they happen they do occur. Some people do purposely go after those negative responses. Many do not. They will go negative as soon as the other party takes it negative. As soon as they feel that their rights are being violated in any manner they will go ahead and stand up and they will do it firmly. They will do it loudly and they will drop the f-bomb. They don't care because it is their right to drop that f-bomb. I think that I think that it is really, really important that these people are out there doing what they're doing. Even when I don't agree on how they're doing it because well if not them who if not now win. When we no longer have the right to film in public what if I want to take a picture of my daughter on the street? Am I going to be arrested for it? I think in some ways they are causing harm though. It's hurting the cause for the First Amendment because he actually are a lot of people don't get the issue. I contend that that's probably the case and so you really do create that type of anxiety and fear in people and then they look at you as you're the enemy. You're not there to help me. You're there to attack me and instead of confronting them I get that I get they have the right to be confrontational verbally confrontational when somebody is verbally attacking them but if they work towards quelling that anxiety and explaining to them what they're doing that hey I'm just trying to support the First Amendment that that would go more towards creating a positive interaction but if people didn't actually have fear and anxiety when they saw these people out there then there would be no interaction. There'd be no motive there'd be more money incentive. I'm not seeing all the auditors are there to make money on YouTube but the big ones are I would say. So they go out there to make to get a reaction. I'm not seeing the intentionally do something to cause a reaction not all of them some of them do but they go out there to make a video of the reactions right and then some of them are confrontational to fight back to hype out the reaction to see that it gets exacerbated to get the police called in some cases right so and I don't find those actions moral I think there's better ways to promote the First Amendment than to go cause fear and anxiety and other members of the public and that's really my issue with them I'm not seeing it's unlawful I'm seeing that aspect of it is immoral everything else I agree with you should film every interaction of the government with the citizenship of the government and we do have a problem with elected officials but the problem is we elect those officials so it goes to the people again the people are not electing people that want to hold the government accountable and we're not educating them and creating fear and anxiety in the public it's not the way to educate the public and that's my biggest complaint with the First Amendment auditor movement and I do enjoy the content I watch hundreds of the videos but I you know I when this point came up I did some reflection on that issue I realized I really can't stand for it on a moral issue I do support it legally but not morally and you know I believe that people have a you know their morals are their morals I don't think that a person's moral should be brought into the legal standing of any constitutional right um because like I said I don't like the way all of them do it I really don't but do I still support them fully fully support them um even the ones that I I have personal issues with I fully support them I think that what they're doing is for a greater good and I don't think that they're doing much harm to the movement I think the people who are doing the harm to the movement are people like um oh my goodness there are a couple of good ones there's a couple of politicians back east and down south who have put forth bills to um stop the public from recording them um so that now I they can press charges against you for harassing the police or harassing a uh a public official of any kind and I find that to be a bunch of crap um because I know from personal experience the past six years straight every month once a month I try to make contact and set up an appointment with my congresswoman I try to set up an appointment and uh contact our governor I try to set up an appointment and contact um our uh others people in legislature and even outside of my own state that aren't mine because I've gotten to the point where I'm so fed up with hitting a brick wall here that without paying ten thousand dollars a plate I can't go and talk to these people why can't I talk to these people how are they representing me if I can't speak to them if they won't hear me and so these people these personal women are the auditors are going out and they are making people hear that whether you agree with them or not if you've tuned in once you've tuned in 20 times two things like first amendment auditing and cop washing and they got your attention the ones that are loud mouth and rude will they get the attention of the people who are loud mouth and rude and they open up a door to the concept of what the first amendment is which is your freedom to press which we are all press because we are free press um the freedom of expression like the censorship of the word of rape you know no you cannot take that away from a victim they are allowed to speak the truth um like a person in the auditor is allowed to get up in the face will not get up in the face but literally but figuratively and tell a government official a police officer um the security guard at your at your courthouse to press off because you're not violating any law what they are doing is violating the law by posting that sign this says it can't be recorded in here and I think it's it's asinine for me or any other first amendment auditor or cop watcher or activist to be held responsible for um a fear that is inside somebody else because I can say boo to a baby and it'll scare them I can say boo to the next baby and it'll laugh I don't know what's going to scare anybody but I tell you what a camera surely shouldn't frighten anyone yeah but you don't have a right to go out there intentionally and still fear in people by intent how are they instilling fear in people though that's what I don't understand but they know it happens and they do it anyway so these bills aren't being written because of the people standing 20 feet back moving when the police ask them to move out of the way these laws are being written because people aren't being confrontational confrontational they are refusing to move when asked to move that's why they're writing these laws is to stop that so these these cop watchers who are acting as first amendment auditors are I'm not seeing this right right but those interactions are what are are convincing these politicians that they need to create laws to prevent those type of interactions from happening and they do disrupt police many of them do they're not out there being peaceful they're out there yelling and being belligerent right and when I say not being peaceful necessarily mean they're being unlawful I just mean they're not being helpful they're not you know I'm not saying you should help police either I'm for police reform I'm not a back to blue type of guy I'm not at all but um so I think part of the problem is is we don't have government transparency in say with like body warm cameras you know people think all cops wear a body cam most I think it's less than half of them wear a body cam and they all should be wearing body cams and then people think oh they're wearing body cams or held accountable that's not the case either because they don't give you access to that that data I understand that there's personal private information on the body cam that they should redact the information but you if you were the one involved you should be able to get that body cam footage for free and immediately there should be no questions asked and if it's private sensitive information in your third party then maybe they they redact some of that information from it but it should be accessible I'm almost to the point they should all live stream to the cloud and anybody can click cop number one two three in Tampa what's he doing right now when he's on duty right and they'll be at the cameras when they're to and we see it's conspiring conspiring seems a legal turn but they're talking about what can we get this guy charged for and police are out there to find people guilty for a crime they're not out there to find everybody innocent I'm not seeing all cops are that way but a lot of them are and I think that is the major problem that I know that is being exposed by some of the cop watchers and some of the first amendment auditors so that is one reform that I would say would be better than than first minute auditing is for everybody to push to get or all police have to wear body cameras and that that data has to be accessible and it should be free to access they should be here is one guy I saw they charged him something like Charles Bronson or Chuck Bronson I think is goes by I love and uh yeah he's cool anyways and he usually just stands out there in parks or but you know I get it anyways they want to charge only $2,500 to get the body cam footage and to me that's reprehensible and that's what dealt with his actual incident that he had but you were charging them they were trying to to my opinion you're trying to charge him a price we couldn't afford to get the body cam footage and that's a problem so so my and going back like so my main complaint is that you should if if you do have bad you should film all of your personal interactions with the government and I applaud the people that stalked when it's job saw George Floyd on the ground with a knee on his neck or on his back whatever you want to see it was and they filmed they got out their cameras and filmed right and that exposed something that may or not have been exposed if people hadn't been out there with cameras to film it filming and I do appreciate that but they're not there to do an audit they're just there to film the whole and it sucks they couldn't do anything like they should have gone up and said stop get off the dude but they couldn't even do that so yeah so I guess they they are there to cause anxiety and fear I don't think that's your intent but they actually do and they do it anyways knowing that that's what they're going to get when they go out there right but see the thing is I am knowing that you're going to get a certain reaction I don't see how that I mean in that the whole the whole purpose is that we don't want that reaction so if we get that reaction on film and we embarrass the crap out of them because legally no matter what we do we get we get screwed over we get put we get put on the back burner or we end up getting charged with some stupid ass bullshit and oh sorry cuss it um but uh we shouldn't we shouldn't be getting those those reactions and so the fact that people go out there and they are getting these reactions is proof that we need people out there doing this because these kind of reactions need to stop happening it's evidence we need to educate the public their behavior we need to educate the public right I don't think this is actually educating the public it's it's not the whole public that's watching these videos right so we need to educate the public we need to reform our education system so so children learn about their civil rights in school I agree I mean they're taught to trust the police the police are taught to lie to you about the law and about the facts to get you to not necessarily fed itself to something but get you in a trap every lawyer will tell you to remain silent not to speak to police but we teach our kids they should talk to the police as children um oh I was going to make a point so you are right that like okay so it's lawful to do the yeah so just because something is lawful doesn't mean you should do it just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should do it so take um so this is an analogy I'm not saying you have an opinion either way on it but say spanking children right it may be lawful to spank your child you may have a right to spank your child but it doesn't mean I approve of it and it doesn't mean I endorse it and I am going to speak out against that behavior in that even if it is legal and it's a right to do it so just the argument saying it's a right that we can go out there to do this thing and there is an issue that we've exposed like a child is being disobedient but to me there's other ways of solving those type of issues and that's through education and I don't feel like I think you're getting an exposure but I don't think it I don't know if the good outweighs the bad and to me it looks like like I just anecdotally like spoke to like five or six different people and most of them disagree like every one of them disagree with what First Amendment auditors are doing and to me I'm like I mean really okay the why are they getting so many views on on YouTube for First Amendment auditing so I don't think it's as supported as as people in the movement think it is and I think it does hurt the movement okay I just um I don't know I can't I can't feel that way just because of the open the the opening doors that that little foot step in for people of different ideals and different lifestyles and different beliefs um you know like he said and again press you you really enjoy him well for a lot of people that is that that doorway that's that that step into what is the freedom of speech what is the freedom of press what is the freedom of expression what is the freedom to religion um I think we should add the freedom from religion in there somewhere but you know of course we can't but besides the fact um but for other people you know it's the it's the loud mouth that is going to bring someone in it's going to educate them on something that our school system did not educate them on I didn't learn dick about my rights as a kid um I remember learning the preamble and that's about it I don't remember actually learning about what those things meant as far as you know your right to protest um and then all the the stipulations that are placed on your right to protest that you can't do it here you can't do it there you better get off the sidewalk or you better get off the road or you better get out of that park um you know and every city ordinance has you know some kind of impact on that and I think that which if nobody is above or beyond the constitution then daily our rights are being violated by simply existing because of where we live and all the local laws that are in place that say you can't hold a sign in a park um this happened in my town there was a festival going on and there was a man holding a sign in a park it was a blind man he's holding a sitting on a bench holding a sign and these cops arrested him for holding this sign because it was illegal for him and I don't even remember what the sign said it wasn't anything it was like totally benign and why the cops were calling him to begin with I don't really understand or know um a person holding a sign should not you know there's no fear there somebody holding a camera there should be no fear there um so I'm recording the outside of a police station I'm recording the public area of a police station well damn it it's my building it's my right I hate that term phrase but it is the truth but the guy sitting there with the sign isn't there to intentionally see if he can get somebody to respond negatively negatively to him holding the sign so a person there just filming to conduct to conduct business is not there to see if they get a response they're there to film their business so they have a record of their business to me it all goes towards the intent of the act and the and I don't even think first cop watchers are first amendment auditors I don't I think some cop watchers turn into first amendment auditors but the act of watching a cop yes you're um utilizing your first amendment right for freedom of the press but you're not there to test the police right which is what an audit is right an audit is there to inspect and test whatever it is see it's the books like financing or it's the policies and procedures in this case it's more than just the first amendment though too it turns into the fourth amendment fifth amendment sixth amendment right so um they're the it to me it stems to the the intent right and that's true I'm I don't see where we can actually you know judge the intent of a person without being inside their mind now yeah sometimes you know it appears to be obvious but I know many auditors out there who are the aggressive type auditor who are out there for the right reasons and I believe in the same reason that they're out there I just don't again like how they're doing it but many will misconstrue that person's intent on why they're out there because of how aggressive they are um well they'll see what their intent is there's there did you have first amendment audit well they might not see it but they'll broadcast it on their youtube channel like let the world know I'm auditing the first amendment here right they all do that and I'm saying that that is the intent is to see if you if your actions will actually get an emotional response and that to me even the most peaceful ones even amicants at press and his son that do audits I don't see that action there because the intent of the app as being moral and I get it I get why they're doing it and I get the problem that we have in our society on what grounds do you find it immoral their intent is to see if they can cause a reaction knowing that their reaction that they're what they do will cause reaction and people but I don't how is that immoral because because I joke it's because I intend to get a reaction out of people yeah so do you go out do you go out to a person that you don't know and tell them some dirty joke right right so I'm seeing this just like you don't do that right so if you went out there with a camera to tell nasty jokes to people come out of church church saying well it's my first amendment right to do so I'm going to test the first amendment I mean that to me is more obvious right but and your intent is to get a response right a disgust or anger or whatever it is for that person so people do like you go out there like some of these people will full and I'm not I know we got you know the mass thing but they'll they'll cover their faces entirely right to look like they're stalking or prowling right and then let's say I'm just here or the guy that puts his hand behind his back pretend like he has a gun behind his back when the cops approach that right there's a scratch in my back yeah so I mean I I I'm not seeing that they all do that but it goes to the intent the intent is to see they know even the most benign like filming like they go out there with this whole get-up right to film and they stay there for a while and they don't want to stop and explain to them because they're testing the first amendment and I get what they're doing right but the intent is to see if that if people will respect or look right and if they have a reaction or not and that is what I find immoral so I but I want to go back to the education thing unless you have something okay the the the the best trained police officer that we got I think the best academies in the country are like six months long the difference between a regular citizen and a police officer is six months of training and that's a problem right so you you mentioned like the regular citizens don't understand their rights it takes a lawyer three years to get to just crash the surface right so this has to start with educating the young like young they need to learn but parents we teach kids not to talk back we teach them to respect authority and I understand teaching those lessons but you shouldn't respect authority for the sake of respecting authority you should respect people right individuals and respect what they have to say but you shouldn't respect them because they wear a badge or just because they're your teacher or just because they're your parent they res you should respect them based on the relationship you have with the person I do think for teaching the kids wrong lessons about how to interact in a free society yeah and and as far as education goes you know I I do agree that um there are more important things like the truth the children should be learning um I don't understand the point in teaching children lies because as an adult I've had to completely re-educate myself and I think that's just ridiculous no one should have to do that not after spending 12 years in school that is a long time to spend in school to find out that you know most of the history and most of the um information that you've been given is false so I I do agree with the education part of it but um somebody here had a great of the science guy something there we go the science ultimatum or yeah ultimatum uh with jason tom no jason torn I'm blind is crap I'm sorry so it's immoral to verify that a correct response is being invoked um I think that that is a great way of putting it I wish I would have put it that way but I think that invoking any kind of reaction out of anyone is just going to be natural in engaging in public or engaging with any other human being you're doing it to to get them to respond to you when you ask them a question you're doing it because you want a response when you're telling them an antidote you're doing it to get some kind of response um the fact that there's a camera in hand shouldn't really play a difference on fear I just I don't understand the fear part I really just don't I can't really feel fear feel fear well yeah I mean I get I get the people feel fear but it's a camera just don't walk in front of it or don't approach the person that's you know if you're just general public if you're there for your business the thing is is most auditors they don't even they they will keep their it's so annoying too they will keep their cameras pointed to the ground when interacting with a member of the general public because they're not going to show their face or whatever and I I think that that's you know very respectful of them very annoying for whoever's watching because that's not but like if a regular if a regular citizens doesn't invite like so a consensual conversation means both parties consent to the conversation or that interaction right so if you go up to somebody with a camera they don't want to be filmed and they want to talk to you if you want to have a consensual conversation with them you'd lower the camera right if you go up to them yeah but if they come up to you yeah even though you weren't filming them they just happened to cross in front of your camera I just that's just a Karen being a Karen man yeah but what's what's the point it what's the problem with saying okay yeah I won't film you all turn the camera away unless there's some reason to film them like they're being oh violent or whatever they're doing something that could violate the law right or they're coming to attack you or yell at you then I understand filming in them right but if they're just walking by walking up to you hate what you're doing man I don't think you should film them unless you ask them I understand it's your right to do so it's not unlawful but it's it goes to that consensual conversation thing right you should ask him hey can I film this interaction I'll bet you 80% of them will say yeah go ahead but most people don't care anyways right it's it's it's not a majority of people that get upset when you're filming them in public but there are that there is that group of people that do right and if you know that somebody has some level of anxiety right and I think that's why the prep the I see the press I think that's why the corporate news agencies do try to respect the rights of private citizens when it comes to that unless they're a public official or they're whatever it is right there's a level for that and it's because they don't want to cause anxiety or fear in the public and it's just respectful don't record them if they don't want to record them and and that to me is even worse like what's the point of recording people just to record them in public if they don't want to be recorded right I understand more so going to a government building walking through the government building recording the employees of the government building because they're working in a official capacity but if there's some citizens in there just getting the service there's no reason of public to record them right so you should turn the camera camera way to me your your complaint seem to be like well is your right to do so and it doesn't make us for as good content on YouTube see now I don't I honestly don't at least um I don't really think I ever recall anybody doing anything like that I mean everyone that I have um um worked with or who I have viewed on YouTube um they don't just randomly record everyday citizens or their business they quite often stay back or keep the camera pointed downward or um if anything you know they might pan across some people but they don't specifically focus in on any um uh citizen and record them like that I don't recall ever see anything like that unless they are approached and spoken to and I don't think they should have to turn off their camera to deal with somebody who came up to them to talk to them and the ones who don't explain what they're doing I think that is bullshit if you are there to educate the public please educate the public and tell them what you're doing because they are just curious they may come at you a little bit sideways but they're still just curious just tell them why you're fucking there but that's even a better way just my opinion and do I still think that what they're doing is legal and right I do yeah but legal is not the same thing as they should do it so yeah there is a huge difference um you know and the the thinking if they should or they shouldn't that's you know all based on opinion and you know but people don't think they'll stand out in front of a private business on a public easement there's a lot of them they'll stand in stand in front of um um weed shops and stuff like that it seems to be a popular one because a lot of people don't want to be recorded when they're going in and out of those type of stores they don't want whoever to know right um and and they might not post a video of the actual patrons going in and out they edit that part out but they are sitting there with the camera the whole time to catch whatever your actions they they can right and they only post the part of it unless they're live streaming you only post the parts of it where they actually get an interaction though they'll cut a two hour event down to 20 or 30 minutes for the pertin and stuff but the guy driving by or walking by that's getting recorded by some random dude standing six feet away because you know there's all there is it's a sidewalk to the front door right and um recording them as they're going in and out of the building is it's obnoxious they don't want to be recorded I get it's the right to record on a public sidewalk and um but their intent is to see if the illicit it responds and I I I would see that that behavior is much more reprehensible than the guy that goes to a government building but I do I don't support any of it but that's the worst type and you should alleviate to um their concerns de-escalate tell them what you're doing what's the problem of turning your camera away from a citizen who doesn't want to be recorded unless they're being belligerent to me it's not an issue unless you want the content for your video yeah I'm I can't say that I agree with uh messing with private businesses but if you're in public you're in public and if you don't want to be seen in public then go somewhere private I guess is I guess it's just kind of how I feel about it um I also believe that the law does agree with me at least as far as constitution goes but I'm not sure for how much longer I think our first amendment rights are pretty secure even though the um supreme court didn't listen I guess there was a couple cases that came up recently about these first amendment auditors and the supreme court chose to not pick them up and um it's not necessarily so yeah so it hasn't been demonstrated as a national right a lot of people like to claim that the supreme court's already ruled on it they've ruled on aspects of it there's been some circuit courts that have ruled on it right that you can record like the police or whatnot but they haven't they haven't come out and said we can't have regulations surrounding these actions right so all of our rights can be regulated to a certain extent like um the right to peacefully assemble is in the proper time and manner right you can't go as yeah you can't go on it to a point in protesting is to um cause a reaction to is to be heard yeah and so if you follow if you go along to get along there's never going to be anyone standing up and saying hey this is wrong you know and I think that with first amendment auditing in their own way they are standing up and saying hey this is wrong and I'm going to show you what is wrong with it yeah I I think and to me that is their intent and that's the issue I have right I think there's a proper time and manner to protest what the government's doing so I do support people going out and protesting gathering in groups sometimes you need a license which is like whatever but I understand that there might be 10 groups that want to go to the same place the same day you can't let all 10 groups right you imagine having a a backed up blue rally with a BLM rally in the same space it doesn't work very well we sort of want to keep them a little bit separated well you know even though they should agree like I I just want to see one thing I didn't mean to bring it up but man it boggles my mind that somebody can see I love the bill of rights and I love the U.S. Constitution I love everything please do like you don't realize that the bill of rights is there to protect you from the police that's what it's designed to do it's like how could you have both thoughts I just don't get it anyways sorry yeah um there's a lot of it that I don't get and I'm sorry I keep getting this there was a backed blue rally uh in Philly I think I think it was in Philadelphia like a year or two ago and the BLM also was like it was like back the blue was on this end of the street and BLM was on this end of the street and then there was all these people just recording it and it was the people who were recording it who were getting like pretty much attacked from both sides and the way it happened just freaking cracked me up it floored me it absolutely floored me at least it gave both sides a target I don't know with that it is a fine time to jump into our Q&A if you guys are ready however I don't want to rush it in case you had any last points you wanted to discuss no I'm totally ready you got it same thing for you Ozian in you got it in do want to remind you folks in the meantime first as mentioned thrilled to have you here no matter what walk of life you're from we are a neutral platform wanting to welcome everybody no matter what your position is also want to mention both of our guests we are so thankful for you Noley and Ozzie and I want to mention folks their links are in the description so if you'd like to hear more from our guests we highly encourage you check out the description box below and you can find their links there as well as if you're listening via the podcast so maybe you have found modern day debate on your favorite podcast app if you're listening there I can tell you we link Noley and Ozzie in tonight's case in the description box of the podcast episode as well so you can find them there if you happen to be listening at the podcast and with that we'll jump right into it stupid pardon turkey energy thanks for your super chat saying all I need as a laser pointer and I don't know what that means but Noley D thanks for your super sticker appreciate your support of modern day debate Noley seriously it really doesn't mean a lot we're thrilled to have you here and stupid pardon turkey energy strikes again saying the problem is that first amendment auditors are anarchists Noley will give you a chance to respond to that I have a feeling it was for you I'm well I don't I don't agree with that whatsoever I know that there are republicans and there are democrats and there are those moors there are anarchists yes um a few of them that I could think about the top of my head but there are people from all aspects of the um of political beliefs systems who do cup watching and audity it's not just you know um the the sovereign citizen type of person who is going to be doing these things and honestly what's what's wrong with uh with anarchy I mean other than the fact that not every community is going to reach out and help other community members but for the most part they are I mean they're they're peaceful people they just want to be left to fuck alone excuse me they just want to be left alone um they don't want people to come onto their property and tell them what to do over they can't do I don't see anything wrong with with anarchism at all I think it's actually quite positive and very close to volunteerism and and um I think that really that's kind of the way to go because clearly anytime we elect people and put them in power whatever there's a people um involved there is absolute corruption every time and that's what we're dealing with today that's what we've been dealing with ever since the very beginning of this country is that kind of corruption and using an anarchy system would eliminate that corruption um to an extent as far as power and control over one's rights and freedoms got you and thank you very much for your question comment 1888 I'm telling says shout out to Floyd on 559 days sober proud of you my boy good for you Floyd I'm happy for you not cool that's not cool what is that is George what is it George Floyd I don't know if that's who it's about they say 559 days sober I'm not going to do the math you got to live on and bubblegum gun thanks for your comments as the constitution is dead either water tree or hush I think that this I'm not sure if this is for you no Lee or for ASEAN constitution is not dead we still have the supreme court we still have laws constitution still being um decided on and supreme court rights are still being enforced we did and qualified immunity though I do agree with that you got it this one coming in from the defenders of rights says my question is to ask ASEAN is why would you tell them what you're doing during an audit and ruin the authenticity of the interaction to de-escalate the system and swell their anxiety gotcha and any last questions folks we do actually we have actually oh wait we might have one more this one coming in from thanks Joel will bank for your support says thank you for this platform appreciate that Joel that means a lot and max obnex's question for both have you watched uk auditors like auditing britain and coley berks and what do you think of them um i've seen auditing britain um i haven't seen the second one that you mentioned but i have watched a lot of the i'm actually quite close with a lot of the uh the the auditors over there i try to keep my i try to keep my relationship doors open on either side i don't agree with them wholeheartedly on some things but that's i don't agree with anybody wholeheartedly on anything really i like to be difficult but i think the police are more polite it seems like not always right but more polite but they have different laws like they have laws against defending people in public in the uk so they don't have the same rights we do here i said they don't actually have rights there at all i mean they have the magna carta yeah but that wasn't actually written for the public it was just protestants yeah it's just ridiculous but um i believe in what they're doing because they should have those rights and they should have um certain freedoms and um i think all people should be you know treated with dignity and respect until they prove that they don't deserve it by of course you know disrespecting you or whatever but thanks for laughing at me Joel i appreciate it um go ahead if you had anything else no that that's that's all i'm sorry i lost my turn i thought no worries stupid pardoned energy turkey says how much is the kremlin paying nolly i think that they're doing it doesn't mean you're commie pop watchers run the spectrum there's there it's not a political ideal not cop watchers first minute auditors it's not a political ideology so they're not all anarchists they're not all the sovereign citizens don't even respect the first amendment you don't believe it it it applies to them they believe they have rights outside of that they're their own entity so like these are all straw man arguments against first amendment ardenine um it's it's just not the case it runs just the gamut of people gotcha and checking the old chat for any last questions do want to say as mentioned our guests are linked in the description we really do appreciate both of them for real folks we want to say it is honestly a pleasure to host them and want to say thanks so much for your questions for the q&a it's a pleasure to get your questions and folks with that we are going to wrap up and want to say huge thanks to nolly and osian it's been a true pleasure as for the first time we've never covered this topic even though i know it's very popular and controversial on youtube we were excited to do this and so thank you nolly and osian for helping us do that and one last question from vmfm thanks for your question says for osian can we get a close up shot we want to see that hat that's a beautiful let me let's see it let me just uh there you go there it is a beautiful hat a tremendous hat thank you very much that is super where did you get that osian we have to know that was on nice okay oh what's it called though i what if i was going to show up on stream with that one day to surprise you osian what would i have to search for on um i was on um steampunk hats that's that is based and or redpilled thank you osian but yes do want to say thank you nolly and osian it has been a true pleasure we really do appreciate you guys seriously thank you thanks bye everybody 100 percent so i'm going to be back in just a moment folks with a post credit scene updating you on some of the upcoming debates for example very controversial debate coming up as you can see at the bottom right of your screen as victoria hammett returns to debate our new guest we are absolutely thrilled to host her as well but do want to mention in addition to that folks we have this upcoming conference we're going to talk more details about that as well so stick around we'll be back in just a moment working hard to get new topics on new guests on and we really do appreciate nolly and osian as we really it has been a true pleasure getting to have this topic for the first time and especially because nolly and osian were both fun and cordial and we do appreciate them so show your love to them folks and remember they are linked in the description and in addition my dear friends i want to say hello to you in the old live chat because this is honestly i always enjoy this getting to say hello and hang out with you and want to say thanks so much malchus axe for being with us we're glad you're here charles darwin pumped you are with us as well as ron j and ac bar also lucky burrito art and music thanks for being with us we're glad you're here and captain crunch good to see you again human girl beta pumped your back as well as all of her cat well i am so glad you were here recognized it was steampunk is this a band or something all over i don't know this is new to me but yes we do want to say jesse goins were pumped to have you let me know am i pronouncing it right jesse let me know as well as joel will banks thanks for being with us joel is it joel or joel we want to know i want to see it right so thanks for hanging out with us though and mark adam crow pumped you are with us as well and stupid pardon turkey energy whore we are glad to have you as well as daniel roberts glad you were with us the defenders of rights thanks for coming by i got your message by the way i hope you're doing well and i saw you called thanks so much as well as the v or vm fm pumped to have you here and thanks for your support willy kinan thanks for being with us we're glad you're here truth defenders glad you were with us shalom to you as well and steve cutler live pumped you're here steve thanks for dropping in colorado biker good to see you a long time viewer we appreciate all of your support colorado biker seriously i am pumped you were with us and then stupid pardon turkey energy thanks for letting me know you need to talk to me i am on both twitter and snapchat also modern day debate at gmail.com if those don't work but daniel roberts pumped you are with us as well as brook chavis thanks so much for all your your support brook and want to say thanks for being a member i don't thank you guys enough for being members and i'm sorry about that for real and i do want to say thank you so much for those of you who have become members that really does help this help the channel as we pursue the vision and we are passionate about this and believe me you will see at this conference it being made into reality even more and by large strides as we take these big steps in 2022 as we host debate con the first ever conference by modern day debate filled with epic debates i'm telling you guys we really we're confirming some big time stuff and it is going to be gigantic so i am absolutely thrilled and i got to tell you guys you may not know about this you're like hot debate kind of what are you talking about james on the bottom right of your screen january 15th which is a saturday is the first day and then sunday is where we wrap up it's going to be a two-day conference filled jam packed with debates if you're there in person you're going to get to see all of them that you want to see although some of them will be at the same time i've got to give you that heads up but we are going to put tickouts out shortly so our goal is within a week that we get sales for tickets going and that is going to be an epic one if you live anywhere in the dallas area maybe even houston it's worth the trip it is going to be that good and i'm pumped to get to meet i got to meet some of you so for example colorado biker prepper in the old live chat i actually got to meet in person once we do both live in colorado and so that was i appreciate your support colorado biker prepper seriously colorado biker i think it is for short now but i want to say we are pumped that's right colorado biker we are pumped about this conference it is going to be ginormous many of the debates will be streamed to the public we're going to do a basically a crowdfund because this is a risk i gotta be real like this is actually like i'm not joking yet it's not like i'm just making up uh but it is going to be monstrous and by the way ron j i see you there in the old live chat saying already subscribed modern day debate enmoly thanks for your support ron j we do appreciate you guys subscribing as we are pumped join us while we're small folks we are a small channel as of right now we have big aspirations and we're learning quickly we are excited to have a greater impact on youtube as we fulfill the vision of providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field that's absolutely vital and we're doing it and we're going to do it bigly in 2022 and as an example i've got to tell you first we're pumped to wrap up 2021 as we are in a determined march to hit 60 000 subscribers we are absolutely determined we are excited about that possibility of wow it just seemed like it was like just yesterday that we hit 50 000 and so we are so thankful for your support for real everybody we do appreciate it you guys make this channel great and i'm serious about that it's not just oh it's like lips rumours you're trying to make people feel good no no no no here's how i'll give you some several ways one is that some of you have actually debated on the channel i see nolly d for example i see azean in the live chat all the time some of you have debated on the channel that obviously is the biggest thing we appreciate that the debaters are the lifeblood of the channel but also i've got to tell you this your questions during the q and a that really does help we need questions for a question and answer and if you didn't have those questions if you weren't submitting them the q and a would be very sad because it wouldn't be a q and a there wouldn't be any questions we've had people recommend yes so sometimes people reach out and they're like hey i reached out to so-and-so they're willing to come on it's going to be epic that really helps us is that we can say hey well if they already said that they come on like that's great we can reach out to them and that helps a ton people submit ideas for us to host we appreciate that you guys i can tell you even like the little things you might think it doesn't help but it does the things like subscribing or if you hit that like right now we're at 149 likes we can hit 150 believe me we are so close i can feel it is that when you hit the like button that helps for real it does the that's what it's always been said is that youtube has said that it helps boost channels in the algorithm and so we do appreciate that support everything and i gotta be honest even just by being here it really does help and you might be like well how james like really well even just by watching at modern day debate there are a couple of things one is it helps us to have this electric community an array of different people from different walks of life different demographics and we want to let you know as always whether you be black white gay straight democrat republican biden supporter trump supporter you name it we are thrilled to have you here we welcome everybody because a lot of people say oh we're so tolerant oh oh but the truth is are they really welcoming everybody and so we do welcome you all whether you be christian atheist muslim agnostic we are thrilled to have you here and having this eclectic community really does make a difference seriously it really makes it a more well rounded community and we have a discord by the way if you didn't know that and you're like oh really it is linked in the description and i'll throw that in the chat in just a moment but i've got to tell you as well even by watching maybe you're like i i don't really participate i don't really say anything though in the chat james i've got to tell you it still makes a difference and here's how in particular the youtube algorithm recommends videos based on what videos you watch that are correlated with other videos that other people watch and the youtube algorithm is very good and these are the best people in the world and so just by like hanging out at modern day debate no joke you do help because our videos are recommended by youtube at exorbitant numbers ginormous numbers youtube is constantly recommending our videos and that's one giant way that we grow and so for real you guys you help modern day debate more than you know and so you have helped us get to as we're edging closer we're only a thousand away from 60 000 subscribers we are closed as right now last time i checked i don't remember i think it was like we're 25 away from 58 900 so join us while we are small as i'm telling you my dear friends we have big aspirations and we really are confident that we are really going to grow big as we are taking big strides this 2022 year with these new conferences and also our goal is to hit 100 000 subscribers by the end of 2022 and to keep up our proportion of viewership because that's the trick a lot of times people overestimate the value like they think like oh subscribers is like the most important thing i gotta tell you it is awesome like i'm thankful that we have so many subscribers i'm thankful to you guys for making this channel awesome but the biggest thing really i'd rather have zero subscribers and 10 000 views per day compared to some people who have 10 000 subscribers zero views per day more importantly we're not about the numbers of oh we would list many subscribers more importantly we want impact on youtube namely we want people to know hey there is a neutral platform hosting debates so that everybody gets their fair shot to make their case on a level playing field everyone's actually treated fairly and so that's important to us and we are excited as i gotta tell you i'm not trying to brag i give you guys the credit for real i am just so encouraged that compared to channels i sometimes see channels with 100 000 subs and we have more views more watch time on our channel in the metrics than these other channels that have over 100 000 subscribers so our impact is huge we are a small channel with huge potential and we want to say thanks so much you guys for making it that awesome pray for me thanks for coming by i see you there in the old live chat as well and then joel wilbanks says that was fun thanks for letting me know that joel i'm pumped that you enjoyed it as much as i did i thought it was great and so charles dollarwin bubblegum gun brook chavis good to see you and i gotta tell you my dear friends we are absolutely excited about the future so let me tell you about some stuff one as you know there is this controversial debate i won't even say the word on stream because you know youtube is but regarding soy tube i can't say this word on stream but we will host the debate and it's going to be juicy it's going to be controversial on the bottom right of your screen victoria hammett is returning against newcomer and i am pumped okay i will admit i'm so sorry i'm embarrassed i'm like it's like the end of the day i'm tired i have to like remember her name i know that she is talented because i saw her debating in another debate on another channel i thought oh i was like we'd love to have her on and i just never it was so busy i hadn't got to ask her eventually she emailed me and she said hey will you host victoria and i was like hey sanvi that's what it is so sanvi just emailed me and so sanvi reasoning we are absolutely pumped to host her and victoria it's going to be phenomenal my friends seriously it's going to be absolutely fun and so let's see here in the old live chat though daniel robert says can anyone read my messages no and next up yeah the defender of rights says the law doesn't care let's see juicy my yeah we love ozzie and he's been a huge supporter of the channel and then let's see i see there cd marie jones good to see you i see there in the old chat mega dude man 21 thanks for your kind words says love you man or love you james thanks for that seriously mega dude man 21 i totally appreciate that and then human girl as well as stupid pardon turkey i'm telling you it's stupid pardon turkey i don't know if you do you do delete your snapchat i don't know if you're like too cool for school or what but side show nav says was up james sunday with modern a debate a great next thank you for that for real side show we are i'm so thankful for you and amanda and so many of the other people i've made this channel as awesome as it is in so many ways and in particular thank you so much amanda and side show nav for helping in terms of our conference prep it is like seriously the fact that we're putting on this conference and that i think it's going to be phenomenal is is crazy given that we started it about two months ahead of the date like it is if we if we pull this off which we will we're determined it's just amazing seriously i'm so thankful for the team that we have and so thank you side show nav and thank you so much amanda banana republic good to see you there banana republics has always loved chilling with you you too james thanks for that that seriously means a lot and then let's see perpetually annoyed good to see you there thanks for coming by again vm fm says lovely debate great job thanks to james and all the mods in chat thanks for that seriously that means more than you know and the mods are tremendous they do a great job we do appreciate them they're always trying to look out for the speakers as we do appreciate the speakers and so we always want to encourage people to attack the arguments instead of the person and we tried it we want to give you freedom so you know that's something that you know let us know if you uh have concerns we are open to it i know that i'm open to the idea that i could be better at moderating i will definitely admit that and i'm very serious like i'm not just saying that tongue in cheek i've done it for three years but nonetheless i'm like i have room to grow without a doubt i'm totally open to that and so i am absolutely pumped to let you know you guys we can grow we are open to feedback and so thank you so much for giving that feedback for real it really does help us grow but want to say i am pumped to see you there in the old live chat and hacks thanks for being with us let's see no lee d heat shield but yeah no lee d thanks again seriously we are pumped you are here we are appreciative of you thanks so much i know it was a hard weekend and so thank you so much for being so resilient and sticking with us and heat shield good to see you there we are pumped to have you here as well as emerald city transparency thanks for coming by seriously pumped you are with us hannah anderson thanks for all your support thanks for being a member seriously and then let's see here mark read thanks for your support says hit the like if you like steam punk i am new to steam punk i have to be honest so but i had nonetheless i do appreciate you guys hitting like thank you seriously we're up to 163 we passed the goal of 150 so thanks for that and then let's see here big sky 789 we are pumped that you are with us thanks for dropping in glad you were here and then kafifi indeed but let's see here we are absolutely pumped though i am stoked to see you as well all over cat wall says debata no doubt about it willy pal thanks for your kind word says this is a great channel james is a cool guy thank you so much willy that's really nice of you i appreciate that i have so many things that if you actually were around me you'd be like james why do you do that so many things that are weird quarks and weird and also things where you're like but i just appreciate your kind word so thank you for saying that news now ohio thanks for coming by we're glad you're with us pumped to have you here seriously we hope you feel welcome joel willbank says thank you mods i couldn't agree more we are seriously thanks we're thankful for all of the mods as you a fantastic job sady marie jones good to see you says hey hon good to see you too promise to be early for the next debate thanks sady no worries i know it's busy so we're just pumped seriously let's see here but we are excited we are setting up a tag team debate on flat earth for this if i remember right oh my it's been a long day and i've got a ghost it's pretty late but i've got to i've got to get up early like really early and do a ton of work but i do want to say we absolutely are pumped to let you know a couple of things one more or i should say sycho nav is i just linked his chat at the top of the live chat highly encourage you we do appreciate he is the kind of lead mod and we want to say we are so thankful for all that he does and he is at modern day debate moderator at gmail.com as he answers all the moderating stuff and so we really do appreciate the mods as we want to give everybody plenty of freedom we really do care about that and at the same time we want to follow youtube terms of service and we also want to respect the guests as we really do appreciate them and so i've got to let you know is that that's why the moderators are working really hard and we do appreciate them as we follow youtube terms of service because we want to grow the truth is why would we cut off the metaphorical growth branch that we are sitting on namely youtube boosting us in the algorithm all the time why would we cut off that branch that we are sitting on by violating the terms of service that just doesn't make sense so we do follow terms of service and so word warriors thanks for coming by pumped you're with us as debate of the century bill knight of science guy versus kenthoven the science gent that sounds juicy we appreciate that idea word warriors we always appreciate new ideas coming in and also pumped though to see you here where did i just see it oh saty marie so sad to hear that you have that infection or have that infection like that's a bummer seriously so i really do hope you get better and i hope that it's a smooth recovery for real and so i want to say thank you guys though seriously we love you guys i love you guys we care about you we appreciate you making this community great seriously you really do make it great and i'm excited for the future we have big things in store juicy upcoming debates as well as as i mentioned debate con which is going to be epic so thanks everybody we love you guys keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and we'll see you next time everybody take care