 All right, so we've got us an old schoolhouse here built in 1880 Let's go in here and take a look see what's going on supposedly he just keeps cycling on and off. How's it going good? So he said it was acting a little funny Sure, this is definitely an older cool building It's completely empty. So there's not much in here to hold heat Now I was given some of the low-down and how things work here You got all your registers above the windows up there and it kind of go all the way around It's a spider trunk line basically all the way around the corners Now this is quite unique. They're gonna bring in duck work to pull the return off the ground which I worked on this place long before being here and it used to work with a simple pulse furnace As far as I know just fine, but we have state-of-the-art fancy Control system as you can see it's 15 degrees outside It's set for 70 degrees and it's 64 degrees in here. Let's go see what's going on I got up there and kind of poked my head I had to bring in my eight foot ladder to get down the door Then they've got the straight thing. I didn't feel like bringing some other big ladder over Let's go ahead and go over here and See what's going on You can see here the old original ceiling You got trunk line there just kind of spider webs to all different branches of the Building here's a return Every old building has to have internet Those things an old beast, but man 1880. That's pretty neat. Man those are some big. Look at that tendon joint That is really cool It's calling for heat At least it's grounded I guess Not seeing any blinks on the lights at least from here anyhow My gas pressure looks kind of low. Is this a two-stage? Nope There goes the fan. Fan's coming on Solar was changed November It turned off again. Never flashed anything Let's see if we can double check a few things here on this. Make sure we're not getting water in the Pressure switch hose or nothing It's this thing. I'd rather see it drain back to the bay Let me collect your box here. I don't think that's it Flame sensor runs golden red, which I'd never been a fan of when that happens Yep, there it goes again. I'm gonna jump this thing out I know you're not supposed to run these in super super cold weather Like you're not supposed to turn the house down super cold Because then your return air is way way too low Something's a little kooky here Looked at the thermostat. It seems to be calling consistently Some of it looks like it's important language. I'm not real sure what that says They might speak Dutch or something. I don't know Hit that it's like, huh? Uh-huh So I don't understand how that's interior exterior. I mean those are in English, but the hell's the rest of it. I ain't sure Oh, Chinese. Oh, that's so easy to switch all your Languages, why would you leave that as an option? I don't seem very smart Looks like you got Russian. That makes it a little easier now. Look at it. Use button and screen to operate it Look at that. It's so much simpler. It's not turning off down here. Let's go ahead and jump it out upstairs and see what's going on I'm not sure why the installers ran this way over here then back over to there Other than they probably didn't have the right size pipe, but it really makes it hell to get into this freaking control system Got an on and off switch there Probably going to get rid of this store switch so that I can work on it with the door off That'd be a lot easier. Just kind of curious if the motor's running slower than it should be going. That's why I'm checking this It's ready for 10. It's right at 10 So we don't have a problem with that. I'd like to know why it's shutting off though because It does not blank a code Of any sort. So what we're probably going to do is jump this thing With the jumper and see if it continually stays running You got your current sensing relay here for the controls. They verify that the blower is on And uh, short of that. It's just you know, a regular thermostat going to clean up that flame sensor Not real thrilled with the way that looks. It's kind of crusty looking My usual product process is make sure the blower capacitor is fine Make sure your flame sensors clean condensate traps if it had one Make sure the pressure switches are draining back because I mean, I've had all those problems so many times over the years Making sure that it's grounded Kind of going through all these same things every time. It's you know, a double check of these every time I like to make sure what time delay we have for off temperature is. Looks like it's set for about 120 Seconds or so That should be fine, especially as cold as it is in here. Those are some of the things I always check no matter what So get looking at this. You can see the wires have gotten pretty warm That crimp on there pulled off that Rollout switch there's got a little warm Carrier has a Tennessee to run their burners really hot on the corners I wonder if it's under firing possibly the burners just seem really low What I'm going to do is get this wire possibly moved away from this here so that it can be Held out and away from the burners more instead of the radiant heat going right up to it They do have this insulated piece up on top here That's probably trapping more heat in Either way it should be built for that, but Generally you don't insulate the top of the furnace like that. I'm assuming There's a reason they did that possibly. I don't know if they were trying to keep the heat in well Originally, this was a 90 percenter um, and then you know That obviously got changed to an 80 which we don't normally recommend running a 90 up in the attic when it's uh, cold weather like this not usually the greatest idea I got the flame sensor cleaned up get that wire on there reposition that so it's not Over top of those slits that are in the metal there brought the flame sensor out the front Find that peculiar that it's doing what it's doing. It should be giving you a code Otherwise, it's got to be the control dropping out The control here or the control that's running it. So let's take a peek see what we get So before we go jumping it out, I'm gonna watch it and see if it drops voltage out to the control Feel whether or not we can uh Feel any heat radiating back more than normal, which I'm sure we've got some pry up on top here, but Doesn't feel too bad in there A little disturbance with the blowers off what do you expect? I'm pulling a little colder air in because I'm up here in the attic area, but Don't think it's going to be that big of a deal Just makes it easier to get to the wires to see what's going on Otherwise, I'm going to have to trim into their stuff and they probably aren't going to like that I'm going to make use of my min max feature there. I've got my Chumper's going to my leads. Just gonna watch it for a bit and see if it drops out. It was doing it usually Every so many minutes should take long doing it. Let's just watch and see what happens It may not do it at all It could be a flame-sense issue and then maybe it only trips out so many times The port finally goes into a hard lock out But it should have gave me something It's been running now for Five and a half six and a half minutes hasn't dropped out once I got checking the codes on this 14 is what it would be if it drops out enough times To actually get to a flame failure So to kind of mimic the flame failure, let's go ahead and pull the flame sensor wire off. There we go Should drop out I don't make sense It's not tripping out. So it never blinked So it's not flame failure. So why is it running now and it didn't before then? So see how I kind of decided to do that wanted to make sure That was just plain because I figured well, maybe it was just a stupid flame sensor issue All right, we got the door back on there. It's running fine so far. We restarted the stop watch I'm going to go grab a thermometer to get in the return of supply and see if we got a Normal rise across this thing. They're already running on a blue speed, which is a Medium medium highest area See where we're at on that. So right now it's kind of confusing Because like I said, didn't have any codes when it shut down It was almost like the controller was shutting off and then coming back on which You got all this fancy stuff in here when you really could get away with just a basic thermostat Yeah, people forget to turn them on turn them off. But you know that stuff is not cheap I'm surprised. We're not seeing anything coming out. It's like 15 degrees out here Definitely not the most energy efficient building in the world front doors are not insulated literally normal doors and you're not Have a hard time Heat this thing. That's for sure You've got cold infiltration on every wall in here Well, it's everywhere along the corners I mean, oh my goodness. Yeah, it's like then you got your outlets there 42 degrees coming through the outlet And here's a big here's a nice spot here This here is the coldest sections 45 degrees And you know, yeah that with the The windows here that I mean I can I mean it's coming through good and cold there. I can feel the wind blowing through even with the storm window I mean, you can see the cobweb there wiggling I mean, you got some massive radiant cold coming in. I mean, that's You ever you ever seen a chest freezer? It's the same principle. They don't have a fan on it. It just got cold walls Yeah, so the door's running 36 degrees You got 73 degrees coming back. Okay, so we're at 118 so Let's say 73 is what it is. So 83 93 103 113 So 45 degree rise. We're right in that ballpark We're not tripping limit And even if we're tripping limit it should Be blinking a light when it shuts off. I still think that stupid controller is shutting down on me I want to jump this dumb thing. It did it when I got up here. It was it was just off It was starting over again There's the temperature rise. It's good up to 50 degrees to 80 degrees so we're well in range of that it's not tripping the limit Everything looks hunky to worry there Definitely not convenient on this stupid wiring to jump it. So I'm gonna jump that sucker from out here That'll that'll make the control guys happy and fuzzy inside What we ended up doing is stripping the wire back a little bit Got r and w jumped Let's watch it for a bit and see what's going on. I mean, it's It's reason why I'm doing this is because that control board there is not blinking anything. It's not Acting like there's any safety devices opening and that's why I'm thinking it's the control stuff Everybody believes the controls and half the time it's not it but in this instance here It does seem like it is The fact is still going to remain that this building is not energy efficient It's running this living butt off trying to keep up The furnace is a 89,000 out and 110,000 in We got the furnace jumped so far six minutes six minutes new drop out yet All the controls and stuff is coming back to this little gizmo That's kind of got everything built into it. I mean you got your fan sensing wire you've got Your supply air temperature sensor and I think that's your internet and there's the thermostat wires I was kind of curious if we were having issues With possibly the wires maybe not being real tight Do not see Any wires that were scout They all look like they're tucked under there properly nothing's Pulling out Everything looks fine there. What I ended up doing and I don't think this is going to do anything I put an isolation relay in there An isolation relay basically Makes the r and w close It's something we had to do long ago with digital thermostats But after having a little discussion with the control guys It was brought to my attention that this thermostat's been changed two or three times with different manufacturing brands Because of the setup of the wireless deal here The usual one that we would use is Cost prohibitive So say at least we're making do with this thing There's another thing that I was not told about and that has to do with the discharge sensor This thing may have its own logic circuitry that's shutting it down because it's getting over 125 degrees You've supposedly these are compensated for direct radiant heat Which is right there. So what we're going to do is we're going to wait and see if it drops out with the isolation relay Which I think it's going to That's case. I'm going to yank the discharge sensor out And let it dangle because what's happening is the discharge sensor thinks the system's overheating And a normal system where it's 70 degrees in the house 125 wouldn't be so bad, you know They came out with some pre Set things that doesn't sound like they're adjustable, which once again, I'm not a controls guy Wasn't even aware this thermostat existed All I know is is a generic regular thermostat would do a fairly decent job But that doesn't give them the options that they want then also Combine that with the duct work that is so properly Distributed all the way around the building The airflow sucks so that a heat stays on the ceiling It comes over recirculates into the furnace and causes it to trip limit Which is why they're running the fans down there That's also why they've got boxes to do a temporary check there to see whether or not we can get the heat off the floor My feeling is should have came in and pounded it with you know, a couple bigger registers Got some airflow circulated around the building. It'd be nice. There was something down there to hold the heat in the building too Empty buildings don't hold heat very well Or worst-case scenario put too many splits in and call it a day Or just don't use the building in the middle of winter when it's you know, 10 degrees out It's just not energy efficient. Um, it's a neat building beautiful old building history But this design here, I guess has been in for a long time And although the furnace is newer the original furnace had the same problems All these little details were left out of the discussion with me I was able to hear it click which is kind of nice We were right in there at about 112 so this thing must think 125 is too much If you think about if it was 70 in the building 80 90 100 there's three put 25 onto that That's 40 50 55. You're kind of in your right area problem is it's false and um We can move this down further into Uh supply down below Um at this point Yeah, I don't know I did hear the relay kick on almost immediately after we went ahead and repositioned it down here Which For temporary purposes that should be fine Should work better Still doesn't make up for the building losing heat like it's doing But it's just going to set there for now. That's a lot better than it Cycling the furnace off every couple of minutes Uh, I just tripped again At this point that needs re repositioned the building's 62 in here. It's constantly shutting off You've got all that heat just coming across the scene. I can feel all the heat right here What I ended up doing was pulling that sensor back out of there Move it over to the return Got it mounted down there That should at least allow it to keep running Return you'll at least be able to see that the room temperature is coming up in temperature It'll obviously be warmer than what the wall stat over there is So you will at least be able to see more of an immediate change. It's not right But neither is the way that thermostats programmed. I have no information on it. The control guys do that At least I've done as much as I can do. So anyhow, that's going to wrap this one up We got it running. Just uh, that's as much as I can do for today Looking back when I checked the voltage first thing to see whether or not it was dropping out from the thermostat call It never dropped out but it was 30 degrees in the attic And when checking that you're sucking that cold air in there The temperature rise would have been lower. So it would have never gotten to that 125 area or whatever it's set at Who knows never seen that thermostat in my life It's something we don't usually use one of the control guys used it because it was a special instance what we needed But that's the reason why it ran and why it took a little longer not knowing what you know Was going on there didn't help a whole lot Not being told that there was multiple issues going on over and over that we've had multiple different trips out there If there was an easy way to actually measure voltage to see if it was dropping out That would have been the fastest easiest way to have done it But there wasn't When I jumped it it jumped and it ran the whole time and that was a pretty good clear indication that it was a thermostat Or a controls issue But there's so many other issues there The duckwork issue the velocity of the airflow The temperature rise, you know all those things if the cardboard water heater boxes weren't on there It would have been tripping limit All right. Well, that's enough of that one. Let's see what else we can get into