 So, hey there and welcome. Really glad to have you joining us today and I'm really glad to have with us our guest Jordana Merkin joining us from Voice for Good Marketing where she serves as the CEO and founder. She's here to share a very valuable topic and insight with us around how to connect to your people and I want to say to your peeps mainly for the whole like Easter reference of that very sugary candy but all about non-profit messaging so she brings some insight to the conversation for sure. We also want to say thank you and express immense gratitude to these sponsors. So shout out to Bloomerang American Non-profit Academy, Non-profit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, 180 Management Group, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Non-profit Nerd and Non-profit Tech Talk. Again, thank you to these companies that allowed us so many amazing opportunities just like the one we are about to have now with Jordana. So again, welcome to the show. Thrilled to have you again for everyone watching and listening. Jordana Merkin has joined us CEO and founder Voice for Good Marketing. Welcome to the show. Glad to have you. Thank you so much. Thank you both for having me. It's great to be here. Start us off by telling a little bit about yourself and a little bit about what Voice for Good Marketing does in particular in the non-profit community. Yeah, absolutely. So I have been working in and around non-profits my entire career. I was, to go way back, I was an English major and creative writing and sociology minors in college and really what attracted me to all of those areas of study was making mass communication personal and how to really use words to drive people to action. And so I started off in, I live in New Jersey now. I was in college in New York City and I started off in an advertising direction and I did a bunch of internships at for-profit companies and I really enjoyed using my brain in that way but I quickly learned that I needed to be marketing a mission. So for my first job out of college I have been in marketing communications roles at various non-profits. I was in-house at a few different organizations for about a decade and for the last four years I have been running my consulting business. I do a bit of fractional marketing communications support through to my roots but the core of my work really is in messaging guides and really helping organizations get clear on what they do, who they do it for and how to communicate it because as I always say clarity creates connection. So really laying that foundation for all the wonderful awareness raising and fundraising that is made possible when people can answer those questions clearly. You know I love what you said. I feel like we could end the show right now and you have spoken to me in a way because I find non-profit organizations and not so much in the for-profit world but non-profit organizations will like start and redo their messaging over and over and over and they haven't backed up created clarity and then worked it you know like as you say you know work the plan it always seems like there's this whole new pressure to start over and start new and and we get sidetracked by the shiny thing right and we become internally fatigued and so we feel like we've got to you know get something brand new and it's just such a spiral down as opposed to spiraling up so I'm really excited to have you talk to us about this and so one of the things you said that's so interesting is clear messaging, clear messaging and then it packs a punch. What does clear messaging mean to you and what should it mean to us? Yeah so it's a great question. I love that graphic. So clear messaging really is as I said it's what you do, who you're for and how you communicate it. So what you do to your point Julia that you know resetting the messaging over and over and over again I find that comes up because you know people will say well we do so many things and I'll say well you have so many programs and that's wonderful and that's you know that's great but you you should at least have one mission right so let's think about how to communicate that mission. I you know I usually work on when I'm working on a messaging guide with the organization we start with that with the big picture story as I call it. So it's where your mission meets your impact meets the emotional core of your work right because that's how you're going to really connect with people in a clear way. So it really is like that that zooming out to that common denominator right so yes you may have many programs but you don't need to reinvent the wheel with your messaging every time you talk about one of them you should not reinvent the wheel with your messaging every time you talk about one of them and so when you when someone says what do you do it's really an opportunity to answer with your why so it's you know it's not just the oh we have x y and z programs it's but this is really at the core of our work and when you can answer that clearly you know the the the punch that it packs is that you know it makes you memorable and it signals to your people right that's the next piece is who you're for so that's both who you serve and who your supporters are and sometimes those are the same people and sometimes they're different people but in all cases it's really signaling to those people that you are for them so um I often like to quote Seth Godin and saying people like us do things like this um and all of your messaging should really be signaling to who is people like us and you know who are the people who support volunteer participate however you want to fill that in um but really having that clear messaging is the foundation to all of the communications that you'll have around that I love what you just said and I'm fascinated by this Jared I have one quick question and then I'll I'll let you jump in how often should we be doing this taking this exercise and and realizing what our clear messaging is is this like you know you you put that flag in the sand and then you just die by it or what does that look like when we get antsy and feel like we need to change that message that clear message yeah so it's a great question that big picture story should be a fairly evergreen but that you know evergreen means forever and I don't know that you know forever is a long time right so it's not the kind of thing we want to be changing too often we do we should be referencing it daily right so we do always want to make sure that it resonates and that it's still accurate and that things have not shifted um but really we want to make sure that all of the things we're saying in our day-to-day reflect back on that big picture message so unless your mission is changing or you know you're going in a different direction it really should be something that something that lasts for a long time but not in a sitting on the shelf getting dusty kind of way in a actively being referenced every day kind of way well I was going to throw a curve ball in here because I have this aha moment Julia when you were talking about you know when you see nonprofits really changing their messaging might there be a correlation in how often we change the messaging with how often the person in that position changes because we talk about the you know the workforce and the turnover and I'm really curious Jordana if you see this with the clients if it's like okay here's the big message but when we have a new development director we have a new marketing person come in they put their own twist and stamp on it and so it does look on the outside as if the message has been completely rewritten I'm really curious by that that is a great observation yeah it's a great question yeah so I think and thank you for that because it's an important point that the messaging guide um is an internal document right and it's important to have it in writing and it's important to get everyone on the same page so when someone new comes in you know it's not to say that they can't bring something new to the table but they really shouldn't be again unless there is an organizational shift or you know a new strategic plan that goes in a completely different direction the new person should not be completely changing the personality and voice and values of the organization that should stay consistent and so having this in writing um is how you get clear internally both with current internal people that staff and board which also are not always on the same page but then new people right so day one of your new job read this over so you can get a sense of what we do and how we talk about it okay so I'm gonna step back and have you spend a little bit more time on that messaging guide because I have only seen a handful in the trajectory of my career sadly a handful that were well done and I would love for you to address a couple things of what that you know some people might refer to it as a style guide but if you could talk briefly about what that looks like because to me that's that's the foundational point number one you get that into your point you hand that over and you're like okay everybody this is how we're rowing right yeah what what are some of the main elements of that yeah absolutely so it pulls together your mission your vision and your values to start a lot of a lot of organizations have that publicly on their website but even that is not always consistent with like what's let's say is on the homepage of the website you know you click through to that page and suddenly it feels different and said it so really pulling it all together in one place so mission vision values values especially because that should really be informing all of your communications that's how you're going to signal to your people that they're your people because you have that values alignment so that's crucial also what makes you different so you know if you are many organizations have similar missions to other organizations and so what makes you you and that is yes that has to do with the details of your programs but also that's again in your values that's your personality that's your voice and tone and style which also is a part of the guide um if someone were to sit down and have you know a cup of coffee with your organization not your ed not your development director but the organization as a whole what feelings would they be left with when they walked away how would that sound how would you know what what emotional pieces you know would go into that and so all of that is part of it um so that different people can write for the organization speak on behalf of the organization put out content on behalf of the organization um in a cohesive way because that's going to be um you know much more clearly and loudly amplified and um you know so it's also it's the problem you solve as well you're positioning within so even if you're addressing something maybe again if your mission is similar to someone else then what is the problem that you are setting out to solve um I see this often on non-profit websites in particular but really in communications in general where they'll set out with well here's the here's our solution here's what we do um and really that's only half an answer and that's not opening the door to educate your people and to ask them to partner with you on solving it if it's just the solution then you don't need me right you've got it so educating me on the problem first and then the reason why the solution needs to happen is also a really important piece amazing oh well and I was hoping that would be your answer too it's like we have to maintain continuity and to the the next talking point that's what strengthens the team and so regardless the message stays the same and someone can come in and kind of you know tailor it to their style or what that looks like but maintaining brand talk to us about how and I feel like you did a little bit already but really how this does strengthen the team uh you mentioned the board the staff right like volunteers there's so many ways to do this but what are you seeing yeah so I work primarily with smaller organizations um and but I have worked you know over the years with organizations of all sizes and the constant whether you're a team of three thirty or three hundred is unfortunately we work in silos right we all have too much on our plates and we're focused on our one area and um or in our many areas right as titles tend to build up in the nonprofit sector but we're focused on our pieces pieces of the puzzle um and those silos get in our way of communicating effectively because when we have an inconsistent message that's a weaker message it's not memorable it's confusing people can't support what they don't understand and so that again that to go back to you know if clarity creates connection then when that's not clear then you're not connecting internally and therefore you can't amplify that externally so having again this message and guide in place internally is you know it's a reminder and reinforcement of your common purpose of your people like us work for organizations like this right that starts from within um so of that again the common values um and that's also how you attract the right staff as well right when you're putting out consistent messaging you're not only going to attract you know the right donors volunteers however you're looking for but also the right staff because then they will understand very clearly what you're about it's also a great reminder on the hard days and we all have the hard days that you know this is why we're here um so it's just it's important for morale as well as you know growth externally yeah I love that I hadn't thought of it that way but you are right because sometimes we have to get out of whatever is boiling inside of us for that moment and then extricate ourselves from you know this small part of the bigger picture and I love that I love that idea especially when you're in crisis and so many of our nonprofits across you know our lands are crisis oriented right they deal with the hard things right so this is kind of part of their their daily work um you know Jared it's a really interesting thing because it almost makes me think about how um talking about like the strategic planning and and those conversations that we've had actually even this week how you can pull those those lines through and it really helps guide you or maybe the word is reset you know resetting well what when it comes to the engaging the supporters growing that audience I love the word amplify I I too was a mass communication major and when you uh said earlier like I want to bring mass communications into this personalized space and and I didn't say it nearly as eloquently as you did but it's like well how do you personalize met something in the masses right like when it comes to something that's so broad but that clear messaging does truly engage supporters and grow audiences and I guarantee you're going to tell us a little bit too about through that personalization that clear messaging what are you what are you seeing works well for our supporters and our audience yeah so I would say the golden rule of communication is show me you know me um I think there are a few quotes that can be attributed to truly everyone ever but I think if there ever was one that's it right everyone wants to be seen wants to be you know felt like they're understood and so when you're writing a communication um or filming a you know any kind of video or something written or you know whatever it is you want to keep your audience or audiences in mind and so and really that show me you know me is the way to do that so again thinking about who they are and who they are in relation to your organization so again to go back to the values that are really at the core of all of this so again that center of the Venn diagram between their values and your values as an organization should be a pretty large center because those are your people it's not worth convincing people who don't share those values to become supporters right you want to invest in those people who are already aligned which is not to say that you shouldn't educate of course we need to educate our people and that goes back to that problem solution framework but the the alignment should be there and you know we live in isolating times we live in divisive times it's an election year I know there's a lot of concern especially in the nonprofit world about cutting through that noise but I think again if we can lean into who we are as an organization to make our personality shine through to to really put our values out there to make it clear what we're about and what we're not about because I always you know pause before I say this because I know sometimes it's hard to hear but your organization isn't for everyone and when you try to make it for everyone that's when you get unclear messaging that's when you're not memorable that's when you sound like everybody else so to engage your current people and I I put in current in quotes usually because your current people are never you know they're maybe recent people but you can't count on them as always being your people right we need to develop that relationship over time we need to build upon it and so to really engage those groups of people that are already warmed up to your organization as well as attracting new people that really takes clear messaging and that really takes putting out there what you're about and again who you're for and even if it's multiple audiences again it's that big picture story that common denominator at those that emotional pull the values you share the personality that you're putting out there that is going to make people know people like us support organizations like this wow you know you mentioned something the divisive times and I'm glad you did Julie and I over the last four years together have been speaking about the pandemic's plural right like not just COVID like so many different issues within our community and I love that you said you're not for everyone right like your organization your mission your values aren't in alignment with everyone and I do agree that's too often we are fearful to really put out what we stand for how we make decisions what we choose to do because of the fear of losing a donor losing a supporter group losing you know that next big check whatever that might be do you have any tips as we move into our final concept today when it comes to actions to achieve this clear messaging like what can we do it for everyone listening today like what can we do what should I love this image to like what needs to be top of our post-it note so yeah so I'll go back to the big picture story and just get a little bit more specific on how to achieve it so as I said the big picture story is mission meets impact meets values it's the emotional core of what you do so the way that I the exercise I do to achieve that with an organization is we start with that question of what do you do and we think about you know how that is answered at its most basic level and then we peel back the layers of that onion by saying why is that important at least three times to really drill down to why it matters because it's not just that you feed hungry people it's that you feed hungry people because they are worthy of being fed and we believe that everyone should have basic you know they have their basic needs met that's a much more emotionally driven values driven version of what do you do then we feed hungry people um so to have that to have that as your baseline common denominator right so then you know and I the question I get a lot is well we have so many different audience groups how do we speak to all of them and you know that's and it depends kind of a question right it depends on the communication and who's receiving it and of course that show me you know me piece you always need to keep the audience in mind but that's why the big picture story is so important because every communication should be reflecting that big picture story and yeah that you'll tweak the content and you'll tweak that you know what how it looks depending on who's receiving it but the big picture story should resonate will resonate with all of your people if it doesn't resonate then you're not they're not your people um you know just to I always it's this perhaps trait example but if you run a dog rescue then like don't waste your time on the cat people because they're not your people and you know you're not going to convince them to become dog people like just you know use the language use the words use the values that are true to dog people I love that because I agree with Jared I think that we are so fearful of was that we put that front and center as opposed to being curious and embracing moving forward right we're so we're so frightened by that and the need for everyone to love us and you know feel like you know we don't have any um actions and you know the great Terry Axelrod taught me the the phrase you know bless and release and the concept meaning that you know I want to share with you what we do this is our work and if it isn't a fit then great bless and release them let them go on as you said to the cat rescue right let them still be a part of the philanthropic environment it's just not our our specific environment right but it still builds community it still builds solutions for our you know our existence so it's an interesting thing but man it's hard for organizations to embrace that for some weird reason it is hard I think you know you want to you want to speak to you what if what the what ifs come in right what if there's this other group of people who would support us but I think the clearer you can get the more you'll find that your supporter base grows because if you're speaking to everyone you're speaking to no one so just really being clear on who your people are and who you're looking to attract um but just to go back to your question about the you know the election year that I brought up I also would say that it's I would you know put your values out there as they relate to your mission I don't think organizations have to put out a statement on everything um especially as you know we get closer to November and more issues come up um if something is relevant to you um then I think that's when you can you know harness that if that's you know the public conversation is happening Joan Gary just had a great video on LinkedIn about that if the public conversation is happening around your issue then talk about your issue um but again be clear about your big picture story and if something doesn't align with your big picture story then don't waste your time on it you don't need to weigh in on everything yeah yeah I appreciate that and I think you know too often at maybe as individuals we're all worried about rocking the boat now on the flip side there's some people that want to rock the boat like that's what they live for you know they want to get those um those bantering comments on social media and whatnot so yeah there's a lot out there well for anyone Jordana who would like to maybe work with you or have a consultation um let's bring that slide up again Julia because I want everyone to know how they can connect with Jordana learn more information really zoom out to zoom in and I also want to honor your logo I love that megaphone like it didn't go yeah it it wasn't missed on me I see it in that v in the voice for those of you listening it the voice um is using a megaphone as the v and it's it's really powerful to me but Jordana Merkins and founder voice for good marketing check out her website I guarantee you it's an amazing one it is voice for good marketing dot com uh do you offer consultations what what does this look like for anyone interested to learn more I do yeah um you can set one up through my website um I'm happy to have a conversation um I also have some freebies on my website if you want to kind of get started with your own prompts for messaging that's that's on there as well and I'm happy to connect to linkedin great well thank you because we have had somebody that has written in to ask about that and as Jared said voice for good marketing dot com it's a great website and you can really um learn more about Jordana's work and and how the process can work maybe for your nonprofit because it is Jordana to me one of those things that we get so caught up in our work that we forget to step back and actually you know really reflect on what our work is and and I love that you use that we're doing I think that's a powerful powerful concept and people like us I think that's a cool way to look at this like people like us are invested in working towards this issue and I think if you gosh if you can just plant that seed in a team's mind um that's a super powerful thing we can't be all things to all people it's kind of like marketing rule 101 but for some reason um we we lose sight of that so this has been great you've been as we say speaking my lingody I love it thank you so thank you it's been wonderful to have this conversation oh my gosh it's been really really fun well we want to say thank you um and a huge shout out of gratitude to our sponsors they include Bloomerang American nonprofit academy nonprofit thought leader thought leader staffing boutique your part-time controller 180 management group fundraising academy jmt consulting the nonprofit nerd herself and nonprofit tech talk these are the folks that join us day in and day out so we can deliver really interesting conversations with our guests from all over the world Jordana came to us today from the east coast where it's super cold and so if you joined us earlier in the green room chatter we were talking about weather and and and you know the differences between parts of our country so really check us back out and we will see you again as we end every episode we leave with this message and it's such an interesting thing because jart and i say this all the time it means different things upon different days and it goes like this to stay well so you can do well thank you so much ladies