 Yeah, back on the sports max on. Let's continue talking cricket. Defending champions England were battered in the opening match of the ICC 50 over World Cup played earlier on Thursday at the Narendra Modestadium in Ahmedabad. The English were inserted to bat and compiled 282 for 9 from their 50 overs. Their modest innings were stitched together by Joe Roots 77 in reply. The Black Caps lost Will Young for a first ball dock in the second over. That was however the final moment of joy for England. Devon Conway and Rachyn Ravindra both slammed centuries on their way to an unbroken 273 run stand. New Zealand securing victory by nine wickets with 82 balls to spare making this the fastest chase of a 250 plus target in World Cup history. And of course no West Indies at the World Cup and with the tournament bowling off earlier on Thursday it was no doubt a bittersweet experience for West Indian cricket fans. I would say a more bitter than sweet. For the first time in history the West Indies failed to secure a spot at the tournament having lifted the title back in 75 and 79. Our next guest was at the helm of the regional cricket board when the Caribbean side secured three world titles in 2016 the men's and women's T20 crowns and the men's under 19 title. We're going to be talking a lot about West Indies cricket and World Cricket with Dave Cameron former CWI president. Mr Cameron it's a pleasure to have you. You've been on a number of times but I feel it's usually on Zoom. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here with us in studio and nobody plays than this new space. Beautiful. Absolutely fantastic. The World Cup started today. How much did you enjoy day one if any at all. Well good afternoon and I think I've met Mariah before speechless and speechless. Oh once. No but I've been in studio at the other studio a couple of times. So Lancers had me had the pleasure of me a couple of times. I've had to defend a few but happy to be here with you. Took a lot of plodding and from here from Mikhail but I'm here. So yeah I didn't watch all the game today but interesting to see what happened. I was disappointed with the turnout. The first game of a World Cup match and there are a number of issues behind that you know for example you know the world believes that wherever there's cricket and it's in India with the respect of who's playing everybody's going to turn up and that is not the case as you can see from today. The ticket prices the ticket venues came out very very late. Those are some of the things that contribute to to the game today but very refreshing to see New Zealand and I always view New Zealand like the Caribbean and my view is that if New Zealand can do what they do consistently similar size population then we just need to adopt some more of what New Zealand does from a performance management perspective and we could emulate New Zealand and you see them right across other sports you know rugby, netball, their top teams as well. Yeah I'm so happy that you started with the turnout today because it was the first thing that struck me I was rather disappointed. I know it wasn't India but it was the opening game of the World Cup and so I expected a lot more support. But Ricardo even with that I've never seen a tournament where the host doesn't open. Yes that was also surprising. Again what's the rationale behind that you know setting the tone with the your host that's one of the reasons you host you set the tone you're going to have the best crowd you can imagine what it would have been in a hundred thousand seater stadium with India versus England today. Yes I want to get your thoughts I don't know how much you follow these things but I want to get your thoughts because I've always had issues with the format of 50 over World Cups. One I generally feel that they are too long this one will be six weeks you have 10 teams you play each other in the opening round and it's almost as if in a tournament format you're giving everybody chance after chance to remain in the tournament. I personally like a 16 team tournament after the first round half of those go home whether you want to go two groups of four or you want to do it knockout style but there is something about a tournament that I think should have that edge about teams losing and being out and you're you're moving on and for me this 50 over World Cup is just too long I don't I don't know what you think about it. Do you want the emotional response do you want the commercial response. I want both. So yeah so from my emotional standpoint I agree with you the commercial reality is that India needs to play maximum games for it to be as successful commercially and so that's why it's as many games because how do you get in there playing maximum games ensuring remember what happened in 2007 in the West Indies they got knocked out early and that was that and so irrespective of where the tournament is playing you want India to be playing as many matches as possible what does that say about our game though that we are so dependent on one nation for television revenue and so on. Correct and that is the challenge that we face and those are the things I was trying to push against when I was at the ICC because the truth is look at what FIFA did yesterday World Cup on three continents 48 team tournament and the game is growing globally whereas we're still left with 10 teams in a in a World Cup environment and if India and England and Australia is not there then there's no value to what we're doing. So those are the issues and ICC and unfortunately my successors are not too concerned about it and it will continue to be that way so the issue is and just to go back to the venues and the timing the the ICC leaves these decisions to the BCCI it will not happen in the West Indies I bet you that the venues will be decided on very early ticket prices will be set where the matches are going to be hosted will be set early but the BCCI has carte blanche to determine where the matches are going to play because they also get all the revenues from the games that are hosted there. One quick one should we also expect for the T20 World Cup next year that majority of the matches will be played in the mornings to satisfy the Indian population. You are correct. And would you say that it hurts cricket on the whole? Well I wouldn't want to say it hurts but obviously for us viewing in the region and wanting to attend the game it is a struggle how many of us are going to go to a nine o'clock game and especially in a weekday just not going to happen but that's the commercial side of the game and as we grow everybody wants to be paid and so we have to match commercial with the game itself and the growth of the game. So the other way to do that is to grow it in markets that is an overtime zone the United States Canada and in South and Central America. And Dave something that has been disturbing the entire Caribbean we spoke about it on the show yesterday no West Indies on this biggest stage talk to me about that as a former president of CWI how do you feel about this? Well I think I made my views public when we didn't qualify so I think if you go and check my Twitter timeline there's some views there. I'm very very disappointed but the day was cast Mariah I don't know if Ricardo was on the show but four years ago we beat England in a series in the Caribbean 2019 test cricket and ODI's I lost the elections in March and we totally threw out all the gains that we had made we picked a team we selected a team and coached to go to the 2019 World Cup and we came ninth that's the reason we're not here today it has nothing else all the other things in between because if we had played well in that tournament we would have qualified automatically for this tournament so everything else is corollary to what happened in 2019. You know there are some detractors Dave who would say but when you were president West Indies had to go through a qualifying tournament and some would say we barely got through that qualifying tournament and absolutely and so my administration took all the blows in a very difficult period we were we had to reshape rejiggle the employment contracts the employment conditions and so we got through that a lot of the players decided that they were not playing they worked out on West Indies cricket so that is part of a difficult period in which we started to rebuild and we had players and I said to you just think about in 2019 when the West Indies beat England in the test series we had four players four batters that were in the top 20 in the world we had four bowlers in the top 20 in the world your statistician you can go and check it out because I hear to go and check it cricket is a team sport one person can't win and as you just demonstrated and spoke about Haley there's no way we're going to be a force to be reckoned with what one team has to be a system and when I became president in 2013 I remember Simon Croskell asking me how long I wanted to be president and I said team if it was possible that once I moved on we continued the systems in place then I would have it you know it would have I would have been happy going in a year or a month my disappointment is that we showed everything that we had put in place and worked for the performance system and that's the reason why we're we're here today tell me in 10 years 11 years of CPL cricket tell me the new players that have come through in the 11 years in our domestic tournament we have players who are stars in the CPL who can't who have retired from the IPL that tells you about the standard and what we're offering in the Caribbean so I don't want to you know but the information is there just go and look at it if you're if you've played 150 games and averaging 25 it means that you are 25 better yes it's gonna get any better unless you change something if you're 19 and you've played five games and you're averaging 19 25 then I believe you can get better yeah yeah your narrative just now Dave just presented a picture that during your years of presidents between 2013 and 2019 you're building something that crashed after you left but the statistics show that the cricket had declined while you were there as well because if you look at the world ratings whichever cricket West Indies president incoming points to that they want to move the West Indies rankings forward we have some statistics showing that when you became president back in 2013 the West Indies ranked seventh in test cricket seventh in ODI and eighth in T20 when you left in 2019 they were down to eighth down to ninth down to eighth in test down to ninth in ODIs and one place up in the T20s so your departure saw the West Indies based on its ranking in world cricket in a worse position than when you came in in 2013 so I'm not sure if the picture you're painting that you were building something and then it went crashing when you left is accurate and I remember Lance viewers it's accumulative performance ranking it's not you know it's not as of today yeah the 2013 ranking would have been a culmination of everything that happened before that it's a two year three year sliding scale and in the same way the rankings in 2019 but remember again Lance I went through a very difficult period where the players walked out on West Indies cricket in 2013 2014 like we forget but your detractors would say that that was really there there there was a toxic atmosphere in West Indies cricket and relationship with the players triggered by your style of leadership right which which triggered that so how would you respond to that my response to that it was not about the leadership they the players used that as an excuse to play to explore their T20 skills all around the world as a matter of if you think about in 2016 when we won that World Cup the beneficiary of that World Cup was all the players and management every player after that time got contracts all around the world and in IPL to play West Indies cricket didn't actually make any more money um and again going back to the the issue with how world cricket is is is set up you win all the championships and offer in 2013 but yet still commercially West Indies cricket was was worse off because now all the players found a reason why they didn't want to play for West Indies because the relationship with the president and whatever the case is whatever really remember just remember this whatever you want to view my relationship with the players as tell me at what point and anytime have I made any disparaging comments against our players except for the Twitter that I retweeted and responded and you mean Gail Chris Gail Chris Gail where where have I made any despite that Bravo had an issue with your misrepresentation of the the contract that he had which caused the problem as well and that was done actually on Sportsmax yes well I was asked a question and I said the contract was downgraded whether it was from A to B or B to C okay that's irrelevant it was downgraded my bad and should I have known that maybe not I'm not in the room I'm doing these things so I misrepresented it and I apologize but I have never ever gone on air and none of the players none can say that I've ever had a hard word with them yeah the other thing though so so all I'm saying to your lands and you've bought into it and all of you have bought the entire Caribbean because the entire Caribbean yeah man because the emotion no because you're emotional okay the the thing about it is that I'm never gonna go up against my players they they are who everybody they are who everybody comes to look look at but I'm in a very difficult position as a cricket board as a governing body we see players we have future players we have current players and we have past players our job is a very difficult one in that our players today want to get all the resources that comes in because the span the lifespan as a sportsman is very short etc they forget that we had to fund 15 17 19 for them to come through we have to ensure that that continues yep but before you before you continue on that line though because we spoke about the players and your relationship with the players but it wasn't just the players there were stakeholders in West Indus cricket that at the end of your tenure were we're happy to see you go because there was a bad relationship between yourself and no man there's not bad relationship I don't call it that what was it we had a disagreement on on on the way forward so for example um prime ministers yes yeah prime ministers I I remember having a meeting with Rowling Mitchell and guns we're at a meeting with the prime ministers two of them um guns um Mitch Rowling was not prime minister at the time had a with with prime minister Gonzales and Mitchell in Trinidad yeah in Trinidad and I outlined to them a sustainable program that I put in place and what I was trying to build and the response the first response was I'm not here to for a lecture and I my response was well I'm just trying to say to you that what we're doing it's not something I just pick out of a hat and say you know whatever so and I've actually sent it to carry come because one of the when I became president I visited all of them and I said listen I need your support it's gonna be tough the changes I want to be able to even come to carry come and report to you on what we're doing and for you to ask me the hard questions I couldn't get a chance to go to carry come I was never invited um are they always very busy so I sent the document our strategic plan and what we're doing into carry come if they didn't get it that's not my challenge and I communicated directly with never December who was the advisor to the to the chairman of carry come but but the point is we try to explain to them that it's not which has to be sustainable explain to them we had a massive shortfall you know of finances and there's no way we're going to get funding if we're not performing and so the route to starting to get to that point results was results and starting to to create a system that we could produce players one player one star in a west in this team and that's what we've been we've been we've been looking at you know you had mentioned Brian Lara it was just one star for 10 years then Chris Gale and then you know you when we were when we started and this is what I'm saying to your system go back again and look at 2019 the rankings um and and statistics we can put it anywhere we want to get the results we want but just look back at 2019 when we won that work that series against England look at the quality of the players the ranking the world rankings forget about what the the averages were in the Caribbean because the world rankings will tell you where they're at at that particular time in where they're going we're the number one all-round in in the Caribbean leading the team we had Kim Aroch we had um from the fast bowler from from um you had Shannon Gabriel and Alzare Joseph all in that team and we had Rustin Chase batting we had the wicked keeper from Barbados I don't know what has happened to Shane Dorwich Shane Dorwich and all these guys and and Craig Buffett so all I'm saying to you is it you we could all we could talk about this from from now to diking them are you suggesting those players have regressed since 2019 well I'm I'm not suggesting the numbers are there again I'm I don't know yeah if you ask me I don't see them they were in the top 20 top 30 in the world in 2019 well Roach is getting older so you know his decline is is understandable but Dorwich's disappearance is is of concern and and Holder is not being as consistent as he he would have been three or four years ago would have been a concern as well I want to get this one in in Dave if you had the opportunity to do it again would you change anything about how you govern yeah you know that's a tough one because Ricardo the the issue is it was never about how I governed it was how it was received um what do I mean by that would I uh am I happy we had a strike in India absolutely not we we tried everything to averted but all the presidents prior to me had two and three strikes okay and and the thing got succeedingly worse all as I mean as a matter of a where's all who was closest to the players I think had two strikes um he was he was very disappointed I had several conversations and he was bitterly disappointed that the players went on strike so I think his hope was received my biggest mistake in my mind was I assumed we assumed that having had the conversations with the players association that it would have been received in the same way we with with with other players associations before that was able to communicate and the players had a buy-in so the misstep was that we did not sit down with the players and explain to them in as clearer detail what the changes in remuneration would mean because that was the biggest issue yeah um excuse me if you've answered this question before because I know with these issues and especially in your position sometimes you can feel like you're answering the same question over and over again but I remember when the strike happened in India one of the criticism is that you as president took too long to get to India to have direct conversations with the cricketers yeah I didn't know and I was planning to go there either but I we had we had um the first time I got wind that there was trouble I immediately asked for a Skype call with the players which they agreed to through weaver and on the day of the Skype call I was told that they don't want to speak to me anymore they're going to instruct weaver what needs to happen and if we didn't agree to terms then the the the actual quotation in the letter was that if we didn't agree then they will bring western cricket to its knees do you feel that miscommunication was a major part of what happened because I absolutely I've had conversations with the players as well of course off the record and many of them felt as if they could not speak to you as if you were not responding to their calls and messages in the way that they wouldn't like well well mariah let me let me tell you let me let me let me let me let me let me just tell you this I made myself available there's no player in the western is that didn't have my phone number or my email address I we went it was initially when we took over in 2013 we took the players to to florida on a farm trip which we were heavily criticized for as well because they were going off to a tour in india we didn't do very well in india and i remember tony cozer said i have the guys in gallivanting all over the place and we were supposed to be getting ready to go to india we got beaten i we i we went i played football with them i bowled to them i played basketball we went to to to the sea aquarium and i rode on the bus with them from orlando to to florida just to show that i'm not above and beyond all of them i sat with the three captains at the time bravo pollard and sammy in the hotel in trinidad and i said to them gentlemen this is the kind of approach i'd like to get what year what year was this 2013 2013 2013 we we took office in march we went to florida in summer i didn't make the trip to kazada another meeting and so the players ended up going to the nba game the miami heats carol was was a major part of that so for them to say that mr bravo on his way the last communication i had with mr bravo on his way to trinidad was um to india was questioning the selection of the team persons in the team that was the last communication but for him to say that he can't reach me or that i was in any way it's not him nobody um no for anybody to say that i was unavailable and i could not be rich is not so yeah are we gonna are we gonna see you pop up in administration anywhere anytime soon sports administration maybe another sport absolutely absolutely so yeah i'm as you'd know ricardo i would know i'm just asking yeah man you the news is out why are you thinking football football football in jamaica um you know hopefully i can i can assist rayman anderson who is running as the the next president of the gff to bring some of the performance um metrics to to the sport the biggest challenge i had in west india's cricket is that we got very um insular if you want to call it so the issues i have was more about you know if this player didn't play is because i didn't like trinidad or didn't like basions as a matter of fact when i became president in 2013 there was an article that came out in the barbados today that said the reason why all only trinidad were playing because i didn't like basions and i shut down the academy in barbados and by the time of my tenure i didn't like trinidad and i was just now picking what's your problem so what's my problem and and jamaicans voted me out i have a tough question i have a tough question for you though dav i have a tough football question for you sure tell me um you're supporting rayman anderson to unseat michael ricketts as president of the jamaica football federation that's good um does dav cameron and rayman anderson agree with the sacking of lawn donalds and the coach of the women's team well first thing lawn donalds wasn't sacked the non-renewal of his contract non-renewal of his contract and the way it was done is is mr anderson happy with it well we could we could always go around and try and figure out um what's the best way to do it i don't i don't have a handle on what the process is within the jff if you're asking me how i would have done it um i would have simply sent lawn a letter outlining the reasons for his non-renewal i wouldn't even have a meeting with him because at the end of the contract and let's be fair again depends on who you want to be but you could have easily sent him a letter to say that we're not renewing the contract but inviting him to a meeting to say we're not renewing why would you not renew a contract of a coach that has been immensely successful well again i don't know what were the terms of his engagement okay that that's the point i'm making so until you understand the terms of his engagement is it that we're at this juncture remember now resources additional resources would have come in for the campaign um and i heard speed on a program saying that they could not afford root of speed um right um carrying him forward yeah you call it very loosely you call his name very loosely though yeah it's my friend it's your friend yeah okay we're out of time quickly what role are you are you are you i'm i'm right now i chair um reamon's campaign um to to become the next so you're a loosely the campaign manager no the chairman of the campaign team okay so you won't be on the executive if he wins i will leave that to reamon i'm i'm in his cabinet got it all right you want to wrap it yeah the one and only Dave Cameron it's been a pleasure our producer has been wrapping us for the last 10 minutes we got to get in some of that day one on the cricket world cup if that was day one i tell you what day one on this show was better than day one in a matter by today absolutely let's go to a break bye