 Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Daniel Dorado, Howard Yermish, and John Atwood. Coming up on DTNS, Netflix says it wants to make games for your TV and PC, but it's not competing with consoles. Meanwhile, Microsoft says it wants to make a mobile Xbox app store and it is competing with Apple and Google. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, October 19th, 2022 in Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. In Salt Lake City, I'm Scott Johnson. I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Jerry Ellsworth feels bad. She had to back out because of some scheduling stuff. Don't feel bad, Jerry. We're going to get Jerry on the show, so we look forward to that soon. It's going to be a great talk. Meanwhile, let's start today with a few tech things you should know. The Quick Hits! The USB Implementers Forum published the official spec for USB 4 version 2.0. This is not USB 5, nor is it USB 4. It is USB 4 version 2.0. What that means is it lets you get 80 gigabit per second speeds over your existing passive cables. It's basically saying we're not really changing anything with the cables, we're just making a new port that can send more data over it. It can also allow for asymmetrical connections that can send 120 gigabits per second in one direction and 40 gigabits per second in the other. Probably best used for displays where you can send a lot of high quality data for a high quality display, and the display doesn't have to send that much data back to you. Devices with USB 4 version 2.0 ports aren't expected for 12 to 18 months. Well, they're always changing that, so get ready. Candlesticks estimates that smartphone sales have dropped 9% on the year last quarter, making it the worst quarter three numbers for the smartphone market since 2014. Even as the overall market shrunk, the leaders grabbed a larger share of it. Samsung grew its worldwide market share by 1.222%. Apple rose from 15% to 18% of the market, and Xiaomi, well, they held steady at 14%, followed by declining market share from Oppo and Vivo. The Blue Sky Initiative, you may remember this, it was formed by Jack Dorsey back when he was CEO of Twitter in 2019, has launched its decentralized social media protocol. It is called the AT protocol, or the AT protocol, you know, like the AT sign. Blue Sky has developed an interoperational framework called Lexicon that will connect apps and networks built on the AT protocol. A waitlist was created for people who wish to get the Blue Sky app, which will probably end up being the first piece of software to take advantage of the AT protocol. I'm genuinely curious about that. Excited to see what that ends up being. Me too. A couple of noteworthy developments in the autonomous vehicle space and department. IKEA has been working with Kodak Robotics on an autonomous truck delivering furniture from a warehouse in Houston to a retail store near Dallas. If the three month pilot goes well, it may be extended and expanded to other stores and warehouses and Waymo announced it will expand its autonomous taxi services to Los Angeles over the next several months, way already operates in Phoenix and San Francisco. Ooh, I might be able to get an autonomous taxi. That's not going to come to my neighborhood. I'm just going to give it to you rather. Vice reports that people in China are using Apple's AirDrop to spread images denouncing the country's leadership. If you're not familiar with China, denouncing the country's leadership is a risky thing to do and it's mild on there. A protest banner was hung from a bridge in Beijing last week and quickly removed and apparently a lot of these AirDrop images show pictures of that banner and its protest message. China's Communist Party is currently holding its 20th National Congress where it will select the party's central committee for the next five year period and President Xi Jinping is expected to get an unprecedented third term. China's government actively censors conversations on social media in the country, of course, but it's real hard to control AirDrop. Yeah, unless they devise the device. What if they go after Apple and say, hey, they can't sell phones here with AirDrop? I don't know. That's kind of the only thing they could do, really, yeah. The UK Competition and Markets Authority released a partly redacted version of a Microsoft filing that says it wants to build an Xbox mobile game store. The reason, of course, the CMA has Microsoft filing things is because of the investigation into Microsoft's proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard. Microsoft argues that Xbox currently has no material presence on mobile and that mobile represents the largest segment in gaming and therefore they should let them buy Activision Blizzard because Activision Blizzard will help Microsoft create a game store that can compete with the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Microsoft repeated in this filing its commitment to open App Store principles. Those principles were published earlier this year. They say they want to let developers run their own app stores on Xbox mobile platform, offer their own payment systems within those apps. Xbox cloud gaming is available on devices from Logitech, Valve, and Razr, but not on iOS unless you use the browser because Apple has policies that don't let you put a cloud gaming service into its App Store unless you make an app for each individual game on the cloud gaming service, which seems silly. It does to me as well. I mean, there's only another major player in this market who has even less of a footprint in mobile gaming and that's Sony. So on one angle of this that I've been thinking about today is how this is yet another effort by Microsoft to get out in front of this and do it before Sony does it and kind of put Sony on edge a little. I feel like they're just sort of like, hey, this going on with Game Pass. Do you have a Game Pass answer? No. Well, guess what? We're also working on cloud gaming in a major way. Oh, you don't really have a good answer for that. Well, we're also doing this and this and this and we're putting games on PC. I feel like they're always putting Sony at least in this recent couple of years, they're putting them on their heels a little bit and not giving them a chance to catch up. This is another way to do that. I don't think that's the only reason they're doing it. I think that they're right about it being an untapped area for growth and potential for the company for this division. But it does, in effect, make Sony at the very least go, do we need to be doing this? Should we have a stronger take in mobile? And mobile is weird. Mobile came out of nowhere and it pulled the rug out from under the traditional gaming world. And I think everybody forgets those long days ago, the Pippin days where we'd make fun of Apple and even later Google for not being companies that are great at video games. The truth is they own the biggest platform between those two companies, between Android and iOS. They own the entirety of the mobile platform. And they went from almost overnight, a couple of years, you might say, back in 0708. They went from not having a piece of it to having all of it. So I'm not surprised by Microsoft's motivations here. It does seem like it took them a long enough to get here. The bigger question, Tom, is what is this thing going to be? Will it be, hey, click here to get Angry Birds, Xbox Edition. You can dress your Angry Birds up like Master Chief or something. I honestly don't know what games they're going to do here. They're mobile. We know that. And they may say as much. But what does that mean, especially in iOS, where they can't have a store like a traditional store? I'm a big fan of realizing, having worked inside of big companies, that big companies don't always know what they're going to do until sometimes minutes before they announce what they're going to do. I've literally been in situations where there were two plans on the table and a press conference scheduled, and we weren't sure which plan was going to be announced. So when we on the outside of these companies go, well, what are they really up to? I try to remember that a lot of times, the companies themselves don't know yet. And especially when you're getting something that Microsoft had to admit in a filing that was partially redacted, so they were thinking, well, maybe this won't even make it out into the public. It's probably giving a vague sense of what it's going to do because it hasn't figured out all the details. When you look at the fact that gaming on mobile makes up 51% of the market by some accounts. When you look at the amount of money that is raked in by iOS on mobile, as well as Android on mobile, it makes sense that Microsoft is going to have a team working on a mobile gaming strategy. It makes sense that they would look at that and say, well, that can be pitched as competition to Apple and Google, which helps us make our antitrust case. This will help us reduce competition. But in the end, where is mobile gaming most likely to be favorable to Microsoft stuff? And it's on Logitech Valve and Razer. It's that kind of mobile gaming, which is Android in a lot of cases. So you could throw the Android in there and they can do an alternative app store like Amazon does for Android. But I'm thinking what they really might be targeting, which is less competition for Apple, is these kinds of mobile gaming platforms, not necessarily phones. Yeah. And you also just made a good argument for that Logitech device, which I think a week ago or so, or right around when it was announced, I sort of decried the high price given its capabilities. It's mainly a streaming device. This suddenly makes that device and devices like it, including the, you know, the Steam Deck, which I own as well, much more interesting and much more maybe closer to being as valuable as Logitech would have you believe, if indeed they'll end up being services on there like this one that may come from Microsoft, which would really push portability and gaming on that device, not just with streaming, but maybe some original content that's designed for small screen. That would really be a sea change for them. Is it enough to, I don't know, take whatever leadership position they want to take in that space and again, keep Sony out of the mix? I don't know, but it's going to be interesting to see this thing play out. I'm very curious about it. Yeah, me too. And I was getting all hung up. I'm like, how are they going to do this on iOS? And I'm like, oh, they're not. They're only saying that because it helps make their antitrust case, but they're probably not worried about that. Yeah. And the good news is like Game Pass or, excuse me, Game Pass X Cloud runs really well on iOS, but you have to do it through the browser. It's this janky method of getting it done. I know they wish they could do differently there, but you know, and maybe one day they will. Maybe somehow Apple capitulates, I don't know, but for now it's going to have to be creative. Well, that's the thing. They could do a web version of their app store potentially, although that's janky too. And they may be just saying like, we'll just hope Apple figures out how to allow other stuff in there someday. Maybe the pressure on them will. One of the things we noted related to the Apple iPad announcement yesterday was that the new 10th gen iPad has a USB-C port, but that new 10th gen iPad only works with the first generation Apple pencil, which uses a lightning port to charge. But Scott has good news for you. I do. So as of, and by the way, I was mind-boggling that they did that. But anyway, as you mentioned yesterday, you can buy the Lightning to USB adapter if you already have the first gen Apple pencil. And Apple is bundling the adapter with the first gen Apple pencil now. But Logitech has an answer for this, and they've had this answer for a little while. They've got an updated version of its crayon stylus that uses USB-C natively, no more lightning. So that's cool. You won't need an adapter. It's also cheap. This thing is still $69.99 or $95, which is $30 less than the Apple pencil. And that is the, meaning the original Apple pencil, the new one's a little bit more. Anyway, on the downside, the crayon lists seven hours of battery life compared to Apple's 12 hours. And the Logitech crayon does not have pressure sensitivity. That being said, I've used the crayon. It's a pretty good alternative, especially if you're like, Hey, we're getting the smaller iPad. We're going to have to have a pen, no matter what. You may as well get that one and use it, especially if it's just your kids, they're learning how to draw or whatever it may be. And pressure sensitivity doesn't really play into it for you. Note taking that sort of thing. This is a great little device. And I still think seven hours, I may not be as good as 12, but the seven hours is pretty strong. Your hand's going to cramp up in seven hours, right? Yeah. What are you doing for seven hours anyway on there? You really shouldn't even, even full time illustrators, if you're, if you're really hardcore in your iPad pro, you're not sitting there for seven and a half hours unless you get a hard deadline. And even then these things charge very quickly. And also the one, the one advantage the crayon has over say the newer iPad or excuse me, the Pencil 2.0, which comes on the big 12.9 inch pros is that you can plug it in while you use it if you were in a pinch. Oh, cause it's got a cable. Exactly. So you can plug right in the tail end of that thing and keep going. Whereas with the Apple pencil, your only option is to put it on the thing and let it charge for a while. Thankfully it's very quick. Take a 15 minute dog walk or something and you're good. But, but still there's some, there's some other reasons to like it. And I think maybe the money savings combined with you're getting the smaller model for this reason too. You're trying to shave a little money off it. You don't need the higher end. Bam, you've got a solution. Bam. Yeah. 97 X. I get it though. I still don't understand why the Apple to the to pencil to is not working on these things. While meanwhile, they got the horizontal camera yesterday added the better folio device, like the smaller iPad got bunches of upgrades. The pro does not have the horizontal. It's got chip in it now, but no horizontal camera and this disparity between the two models. My guess is there's a supply chain. Let's get rid of stuff moment happening here. It's definitely we can source these parts securely. So these parts are going into this model. We cannot support. We cannot source these parts in as high enough amounts. So we're limiting them to this model. That's absolutely what it is, including the support for the original Apple pencil because you need different display parts, right? So, yeah, I don't know all the details, but it's got to be something like that. I mean, unless so. So for those may be wondering, I come from an illustration background, I still do that half half of my professional time is spent doing art and I use the Apple iPad pro and a pencil very frequently. It's kind of my go to for digital art these days. And I love it for that. However, you might think, well, then, Scott, you're going to keep up on every update, right? Normally, I do when there's a big update when they went to M1. I did it when they went to, you know, faster or the new pencil and they required a new iPad. I did it. These were big leaps, in my opinion, in terms of their functionality. This M2, you'd think, oh, brand new chip, this much percentage faster. We know the M2 is a lot faster than the M1, blah, blah, blah. I'm holding off because these other things are a little bit weird. And unless Procreate comes out tomorrow and says, Hey, guess what? 5.3 or whatever the new version is, is going to be, you know, 900,000 more layers possible, and you're going to do it in this much time savings, unless they go crazy with performance increases on the actual, you know, production of content on this thing. I think this is the year to skip. I mean, M2 sounds great, but they're just weird on the other stuff. Well, that's probably why they didn't do a big live stream, right? They're like, yeah, these are just upgrades to make them look more competitive when you go into the store to buy an iPad for the first time or to replace your old one. Same thing as the iPhone, to be honest, although they've got more to talk about with the iPhone. Willie Scott in our chat asked if this had anything to do with the EU forcing a switch to USB-C. I would think not. In fact, if anything, it's surprising that they went ahead and switched it to USB-C when they don't have to yet. If you're Apple and you don't want to switch to USB-C, you're going to wait until the day that that law actually goes into force and you're going to put out as many products into the supply chain as you can with your older parts while you can because once they're announced, once they're for sale, you don't have to pull them for shelves even if they don't have USB-C. So I think this is just Apple deciding to get ahead of it, and they were going to do USB-C either way. Yeah, and I think phones are the ones you're going to see the quick turnaround on. That's the one you're going to suddenly see a USB-C in your iPhone 15s next year. Yeah, you can almost guarantee it. Folks, if you want to join in the conversation on this, you got some theories about the Apple supply chain. Do you work in the Apple supply chain? And you just want to like drop a few hints. Join our Discord. You can do that by linking to a Patreon account at patreon.com slash DTNS. Netflix subscribers rose by $2.41 million last quarter. $1.43 million of those came from the Asia Pacific region. That's where they continue to grow strong even in the downturn that they experienced. But all markets grew this time. Even the U.S. and Canada, barely. U.S. Canada had the smallest growth at 100,000 subscribers, but it was still growth. It predicts it will add 4.5 million subscribers this quarter. So basically double, just a bed, just less than double what it did last quarter. That is also going to be the last time we get a projection on users from Netflix. Well, I want to clear up a little confusion I've seen some people have. Netflix announced it's going to stop projecting subscribers every quarter, which means it will report its subscriber numbers, like here's what we had last quarter, but it won't predict what subscriber numbers will look like the next quarter. So if you take this quarter as the example, they'll continue to say, oh, we added 2.41 million subscribers. What they won't do in the future is say, and next quarter we think we're getting 4.5 million. They're just going to focus on money in the earnings report basis. This reminds me so much of when Blizzard stopped telling everybody what they thought World of Warcraft numbers would be, and then they stopped telling us what they were. And it's because things topped out. It's like you're leveling off. Why get people too excited about tiny numbers, like relatively tiny numbers like 100,000? That's a good point. Netflix might do that. Well, Netflix also thinks it will get double the growth this quarter, because of big releases like the crown, a new season of the crown, as well as the seasonal upsurge from the holidays and a cheaper ad supported tier launches in November. You've heard that here on the show before, but that isn't expected to add much money right away. Interestingly enough, or subscribers, particularly subscribers. They're like, yeah, we're not going to get a bunch of new people just because of the ad support. Yeah. Not necessarily. Anyway, I think they might be wrong on that, but I, I think they're also safe to say it. My personal opinions aside. Anyway, the coming crackdown on password sharing won't go global until sometime in 2023. So there's that. So a lot of the armchair analysis has proven to be off. Password sharing and the ad tier are not desperation moves to save a failing company. Netflix is even saying like, yeah, these things are just long-term changes there. We don't expect them to make a material impact right away. And Netflix also isn't talking about cutting spending. This year it is spending $17 billion on content. And co-CEO Ted Serendost said, yeah, I think that's about the right level, but they're not going to keep increasing it, but they're going to keep spending $17 billion on content. Yeah, it's a lot. And they'll keep doing it. Separate from the earnings report. I thought this was really interesting. Fits within my wheelhouse as well. Netflix VP of gaming, Mike Verdu told TechCrunch disrupt that Netflix is, quote, seriously exploring a cloud gaming offering, unquote, and is getting ready to open its fifth gaming studio in Southern California led by Chaco Sony or sunny, rather, former Blizzard EP of Overwatch, which is also having a bit of a moment right now. Verdu said, quote, for us delivering games to your TV or to your PC, it's a value ad. Like we're not asking you to subscribe as a console replacement. So it is a completely different business model. Now, the future of cloud gaming has been, and forgive the pun, cloudy, since Google announced the end of Stadia coming in January. But Verdu specifically said he thought the problem with Google Stadia was the business model. And it seems like he's trying to say, look, we're not trying to get you to give up your Xbox or your PlayStation. We're just something fun you can add and also play games on. And 50%, he said 50% of them are going to be originals. I have no idea what this side of the Netflix business is intended to be. And I have learned in this video game thing that when I have no idea what Netflix is doing, it's probably doing the obvious thing that I don't think they're doing, which is they're going, they're going head to head with Xbox cloud gaming. They're going head to head with Nvidia GeForce. Now, like they, they are creating a full on PC cloud gaming business, no matter what they say about, oh, well, it's not really that big a deal. That's what they're doing. Don't you think I do, but I also think it's important to note where Stadia failed. And look, there's miles of Stadia conversation we could have and talk about all the reasons why it was weird. But one of the core reasons was they locked in on a business model that was this. We'll send you a dongle. It's basically a Chromecast and we'll send you a controller. And then you can use another controller if you want to, too, but those are the devices. And then we're going to stream these games to you and you're going to buy them and you're only going to be able to play them here. So if you want to play this $50 game, you pay us 50 bucks and you stream it to your, your dongle and boom, there's your service. The difference between that and Microsoft is Microsoft's like, all right, we have game pass. The way you get cloud gaming is you subscribe to game pass ultimate. And what that gives you is access to this huge library of games that are hours and third parties altogether, happily living in one ecosystem. And you can play those on your PC. You can play those on your console. Or if you'd prefer, or in addition to you can play them on your phone or via any other streaming, whatever a notebook or whatever, you can stream these games, these self-same games. That gave people a lot of options where they didn't feel trapped by one way of doing a thing. And also the fact that this is a subscription makes it easier than plucking down 70 bucks every three weeks or whatever on a new title, which you may or may not like. And it's a subscription you're already paying for 2.41 million more of you are paying for it than that we're paying last quarter, right? Absolutely. We're not, they're not asking you to sign up for anything new. They're not asking you to pay for anything new yet. Give them 10 years. Yeah. That makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. And that's, I think that's the key difference here. So will they be more like the stadium model or will they be more like, Hey, we've already got these games and you can play them anywhere, but also you can stream them. Like that's a big question. That's what NVIDIA does. NVIDIA is not doing anything special other than saying, Hey, games you already own, sweet, you can stream them unless the company told us we couldn't do it, which happens a lot. You can't play Blizzard games on there anymore, but it's different in that way. So whatever they're going to do, I'm pins and needles on it. I want to see what I know. This is clever. I recently did an episode to know a little more where I went back to an old insider secret script from CNET about streaming and noted that the top streaming services at that time, and I think it was 2007, didn't include Netflix. Yeah. It was all about like, well, you can stream on AOL, you can you can stream from Amazon Unbox, you can you can stream from some of the networks and this Hulu thing that's new. And then Netflix has this thing. I had forgotten that when Netflix added streaming, it was considered an inferior product. It was experimental. And it was not charged for extra. You got it with your DVD subscription. Notice a playbook there. Netflix saying like, Listen, we know there's lots of great cloud streaming here. We're just a little company. We're going to throw in some gaming. If you like it, you like it. Yeah, we've got five game studios. So some of these games you won't be able to get anywhere else. We're going to come right out of the gate with the original content instead of wait for a house of cards this time. But we're not a threat to anyone until we're totally a threat because you already have Netflix. And now you're playing all these games. Why not? You're already you don't have to pay anything extra for them. And then Netflix suddenly down the road says, Hey, we are going to have to separate the streaming video from the gaming for a while. But you can still get them both in this extra tier or whatever. If it's successful, I think that's totally what they're doing now. It's a slow and steady method that feels a little old school sometimes and a little less immediate. But I don't know that I am more likely to use a Netflix cloud gaming service than any other cloud gaming service because I already have Netflix. Yeah, see, this is key. That right. Yeah. There are a lot of you, Tom. A lot of you. There are so many of me just inside this one head. Uh, Google AI has been shown off a project called I sim to real. So the letter I dash sim number two real built to react to fast paced unpredictable human behavior. That's that's a tough job for algorithms and robots. The project uses this simulation to speed up learning so they can do years of training in a few minutes and then tries the algorithm out in the real world so far. So it's been done by a lot of people. Here's where Google did something cool to keep the real world data in the mix. The team moves back and forth between the simulator and learning in the real world. So when it learns in the real world, it collects data and adds that to the model that it's going to use in the simulation so that the simulation is better. So you're basically training the simulation. It's a bit like again, uh, the data collected in the real world training is used to improve the simulation, which improves the algorithm enough to learn new things when it goes back into the real world and it got really good at ping pong. Uh, they use ping pong as a nice unpredictable but still relatively constrained demonstration. Uh, the result was a 340 hit rally, which let's be honest, I don't think I could do as a human. Uh, so the human who did this is just as impressive to me as the robot to be, to be frank. But yeah, uh, this this thing has learned how to do again, it's not trying to compete at this point, although they have some other parts of the project that are trying to figure out like, can it learn how to place things and all of that? But if it's, it's being taught, like just keep, keep the rally going and it can do it. Yeah. I feel like this, this maybe shows my, um, my lack of experience in the ping pong world, especially the professional ping pong world, but that sounds like a 340 hit rally sounds insane to me. It sounds like an improbable thing to happen. It's like four and a half minutes. Yeah. To me, this sounds like you're saying, Hey, that football game was a zero to 75, right? As the fourth quarter ended, but in a minute, they came back and won like that. So I don't know if that's really what we're looking at here, but it's, it's impressive. I think when you're not trying to win, it's easier to keep a rally going for a long time, but 340s, I'll be honest. I don't think I can do it personally. No, no, I'm not sure I could give you a one hit rally to be honest. I can do five. Yeah. I could probably promise five. I think I can't promise anything. All right. Let's check out the mail bag. Tim, the DBA wrote in and said, the GDPR cookie regulation misses a major point about user surveillance and tracking. I don't look at missed it, but here we go. Tim said cookies can be used to improve user experience like set, letting me stay logged in between sessions. Going to stop you right there, Tim. GDPR doesn't prevent them from doing that. Functional cookies that let you stay logged in are allowed. Those are not the ones that are, that are part of the GDPR regulation. So they can force those kinds of cookies on you. Anyway, let's get back to Tim's email. Tracking technology can be used to track my behavior across sites. Cookies can also be used for tracking, but I believe what Apple has shown is that people actually want to opt out of tracking, not necessarily opt out of cookies. All right. Fair point. You don't have to use cookies to track. Tim says, I subscribed to several news outlets because I want to support good journalism. Yes, I know their advertisers also try to track me, which I resent, but they can do this both with and without cookies. And I believe many people would like to opt out entirely of being tracked and are willing to pay for subscriptions if they replace ad tracking. That is a very good point. In that story we talked about, it was European news outlets, mostly in Germany and Austria, saying, well, either agree to let us set tracking cookies or pay. And then you can block the tracking cookies. I like what Tim's going after here is, don't just say you'll block the, you won't, you'll let us block the tracking cookies. Promise not to track us at all if we're paying. And that's, that's, that's a little added incentive to get me to pay. And I think that's fair. Yeah, it's interesting. And I didn't really, I'm glad he wrote in because your clarification and clarity on this cookies used to improve experience like staying logged in is not part of this. I thought it was part of this. So now there's always an option that says, that's grayed out. It's like, you know, functional cookies, cookies that are neat, that need to be set as a session cookie to make sure that you stayed logged in. That makes the whole thing seem a little less overreaching. Cause I was feeling like, oh man, they're really just the whole baby with the bathwater. Is that what we're doing here? And no, no, the baby is fine. The baby's like sitting in a cradle, keeping your session logged in the bathwater that's been tracking you. That stuff you can throw out. Yeah. Nobody wants that. Anyway, we can use that for it. Throw that dirty cookie blade in the bathwater. Anyway, thank you, Tim. Appreciate the email. Keep them coming, folks, feedback at daily tech news show.com and thank you, Scott Johnson for being with us today. What you got going on these days? Well, speaking of gaming, when I'm not completely hooked on Overwatch two, it's really got its claws into me somehow. I didn't expect that, but I'm doing a show all about video games called core and I do it on Thursdays at a little bit in the afternoon. But if you want to just get the podcast, you can get that. Anyway, go check it out frogpants.com slash core. We got, we dive deep into a lot of the stuff we talked about today with these streaming services and what people are doing for cloud gaming and so on. If that stuff's interesting to you, we'll definitely be hitting that this week along with games we're playing and all the news around the industry. People really like core. Maybe you will too. So check it out frogpants.com slash core or search for it wherever you get your podcasts. Make it a core element of your listening. Oh, it's a good core workout. You just did that. Well, that doesn't work really. Hey, especially thanks to Jeremy Rand, one of our lifetime supporters for DTNS. Thank you, Jeremy, for all your years of support. We appreciate every single one of you patrons. You, you, we could not possibly do this without you. And if you're out there listening thinking like, oh, man, I meant to become a patron. Maybe I should come and do I want to become a patron. You're going to get extended versions of the show. You're going to get extra content that explains the world to you know a little more just comes free to patrons. You get a column from Roger Hill have a new one coming out tomorrow. There's all kinds of good stuff and you get into our discord where you can hang out and talk to other listeners and I pop in there as well. So don't delay become a patron today and you folks who have already become patrons stick around for that extended show. Good day internet. You can also catch the show live Monday through Friday, 4pm Eastern, 200 UTC. Find out more about that at dailytechnewshow.com slash live back tomorrow with Lamar Wilson. Talk to you then. This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frogpants.com. 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