 Good morning here in Hawaii. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you may be. Hope you folks are tuning in on this. Wishing everyone the most healthy, fortunate, and fulfilling new year possible. Thanks for being with us. Hey, with us also today. In addition to our local Hawaii star, Jeff Portnoy, senior partner at Cage Shuddy, First Amendment lawyer and commentator on Hawaii sports for many years. We have Rebecca Ratliff, one of the leading nationally and internationally recognized insurance claim executives, and now mediator arbitrator, bringing peace to an area that grew out of conflict. And speaking of conflict ahead of the American Bar Association's dispute resolution section, David Larson with us, experienced noted professor at Hamlin, whose former dean was one of my college classmates many years ago. So we all have connections that go well beyond having bacon six degrees of separation, if there are any degrees of separation at all. Okay, folks, it's January 6th. Where are we? What's going on? Well, I'll tell you, I had the chance to go to the National Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. about four weeks ago. And what struck me along with all of the horror were the sections dealing with the rise of Hitler and the videos and the speeches. And I know some people are going to be offended by what I'm about to say. But the similarities between what happened in Germany from the mid 30s through the early 1940s and what happened in this country starting in 2016 and continuing till today is eerily similar. And it is very scary. You watch those speeches by Hitler, listen to the English translations, watch the adoring crowds, and frankly, you're watching what happened on January 6th and what 30% of this country still believes. So I thought I'd start with a very pleasant opening statement. Well, that's why history is important. I mean, to draw those parallels is actually critical. And speaking about today, some of us had the opportunity to listen to at least some of, or maybe all of Biden's speech, where I think this is one of the first times where he made a very pointed attack on President, former President Trump. I think it's overdue. But finally calling out the big lie and the destructive nature of that big lie and how it goes right to the heart of our democracy, eroding our faith in our electoral institutions. I mean, if we can't believe in our elections, then democracy fails. So, Rebecca, how does it look from where you sit? Optimist. Always the optimist, I believe, in the heart of the American people and what America stands for, even though it's been unfortunately proven over and over again, that at least half of America doesn't understand what we say America stands for. Last year when we heard President Biden say, this is not America, speaking of the insurrection on January 6, 2021. And I said, and a bunch of people who have brown skin like me said, no, this actually is America. We are still hopeful that because of the resilience of the American people, that things can be different and will be different. But we have a long way to go. Yeah, I hear you and I wish I could be optimistic, but I don't think facts support optimism right now. I mean, has the country changed for the better since a year ago? I don't think anyone, whatever color of their skin, who's not a Trumper, would say yes. I mean, it's actually gotten worse. How many states have passed anti-voting bills? What's happened to the voting bill in the Senate where Joe Manchin has made it clear that he is not going to vote to change the rules? The Republicans haven't moved at all. You can count on one hand the Republicans in Congress who have a brain and are willing to stand up for democracy. Trump's support, they claim is eroding. I don't know if anybody has seen that erosion. But no, I don't think the country is going to fall apart in the next 12 months. I'm not moving yet. I just got back from Belize. It's an opportunity. But I just don't see it. I mean, Congress is deadlocked. And frankly, I fear November of this year where, at least right now, the Democrats are going to lose both houses and you're not going to have to worry about Joe Manchin anymore. And in the next four weeks, they claim they're going to do something regarding voting rights. And it'll be fascinating to see if they have the ability or the guts to do something. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of optimism going forward, Rebecca, through November. But I hope I'm wrong. I understand that. That's why I appreciate President Biden's comments today. Because finally, it's a more aggressive pushback against what's been happening. And I think that the Democrats have been too passive in terms of pushing back on what's been happening and the kinds of things that Jeffrey's talking about, particularly the erosion and suppression of voting, which is frightening. The kinds of restrictions that are being put on and the limitations of ballot drop boxes and things like that and weird authorizations that your ballot won't be counted unless you follow our cane in the idiosyncratic steps. Those are all horrible things and they're simply a recognition by Republicans that if everybody votes, we're not going to win. So the only way we're going to win is make sure everybody doesn't vote. So that's discouraging. I'm waiting for the Republicans to introduce a voting rights bill that requires a jellybean jar. Oh, please don't take me back. Yeah, well, that's exactly my point. I mean, how far back are they going to go? Oh, yeah, we're laughing, but it is definitely, yeah, not funny. Yeah, it's a scary, it's just a very scary time. To say something optimistic, though, we did get a $1 trillion infrastructure bill that did have bipartisan support, and that's something the country desperately needs. There's public safety issues with the bridges and the roads, and a lot of things need to be addressed. So that's good. That's a positive thing. And as you said, we know that almost 500 pieces of legislation at the state and local level were introduced in 49 different states last year. 34 of them were passed by 19 states, 88 are still pending and out there. So that movement to not only restrict and suppress voting access, but to shift control over the vote counting and the electoral college is still moving forward in ways that are very threatening to democracy. So where is the heart and the movement going to come from, Rebecca, that might offer grounds for the optimism? Oh my goodness. I wish I had the answer to that. I mean, my thought is that there really are more people who understand the importance of democracy than people who don't in America. There I am with my American optimism again. But I have to believe that there are, usually when you have these kinds of obstructionist activities, it's usually a minority of people who somehow get their voices heard and are very aggressive and kick up all this dust. And I'm sitting in Georgia. So there are some problems. We have some real problems. But I don't have the answer to that. My hope in my prayer is that I'm right, that there are more people who understand humanity and democracy and will stand together and we're able to make a change. I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it's a phase, but I think right now, in the last several years, there is a significant minority in this country of people who don't care about democracy. They care about their land, what's being taught in their school, what people with different colored skins who speak different languages are coming into their neighborhoods. That's the scary part. Democracy to them means nothing. It only means us versus them. And of course, there's always been an us versus them. We've always had the ranchers in Montana who will fight to keep the federal government off their land. And we've always had the Timothy McVeigh. But we're talking now about tens of millions of people who believe that. I don't think the country is ever, and I'm not a historian that goes back and knows everything, but I'm not young anymore. And at least during my lifetime, I don't remember that number of people who just don't only care about them and themselves and what's happening with these other people that are taking their jobs and taking their land. I mean, it's almost like the Indians in reverse. It's crazy. I like Jeffrey, I like that observation. Implicit in democracy is the opportunity and potential for change and evolution. I mean, that's the nature of democracy. Your voters change and your attitudes change and your values change and your understanding and education and knowledge improves and democracy evolves. And change sometimes is scary. And I think we're in a period where people are recognizing that as more people vote, America may change. And that's frightening to me. And I don't want that. And kind of the irony is that we don't know what that change will be. And that change could be a lot better. And at least open yourself to the possibility that whatever change comes may actually be better for everyone. And I think that idea is lost. The idea that change isn't necessarily always bad. Change can be good. Yeah. And I think when you have leaders who express that philosophy, you've got a much better chance of making it work. But unfortunately, we haven't had those leaders. And when we do have them, their voices are being shouted out by louder voices. And I agree with you that, you know, it's finally Biden today made a speech that needed to be made months ago. But we'll see if it's shouted out. And you've already indicated, David, I haven't seen it, that it didn't stop Trump from putting out the same BS. And, you know, were any minds changed today? It did a single Republican come out who hadn't previously come out of the closet and said, yeah, you know, it's time we put this behind us. And let's move on. I doubt it. I think McConnell and his ilk probably going to come out with statements saying this is all a witch hunt. And, you know, let's, you know, the Democrats are trying to take this into socialism or whatever. But anyway, I hear you. And I think it's just, you know, we're on the coast, we're a little bit off the coast. But, you know, I worry between the two mountain ranges, what's happening to this country, the Alleghenies and the Rockies. A little confusing, though, is that there are leaders in Congress who have said to have, you know, have been said to have a different opinion in private. That's not helping us. But they express one thing in private to a confidant. And then they express something else publicly, like, you know, what we're saying, witch hunt, you know, supporting really alternative facts. And so the question that we, a lot of us have been asking over the last year is why is that? What are they afraid of? And we have videotape, you know, there is news recording of the things that were said, and now recordings that have come out in the last, what month or two, about things that were said on January 6th and after, that really is supportive of our perspective here about democracy. But it's not been expressed publicly. And some of those people have said, you know, I didn't say that. We have it on recording. Yeah, very good. You know, what are they afraid of? What? That's interesting. That's even, you know, even Fox News reporters. Exactly. It's recorded. It's private. It's much more realistic than what they've been doing publicly. So, yeah, I think that's a good question is, you know, how do you give people the courage to, or at least the protection that they can say publicly that they are saying privately? What can we do to give them the confidence that they won't lose all support that they have, if they actually tell the truth? Look at Liz Cheney. Yeah, well, you know, don't expect it to be there after November. Right. I mean, there have always been a few people in Congress in my lifetime who have been followers, not leaders. There are so many more now who've fallen to the followers and not leaders category. And frankly, not just the crazy Republicans, but there are some far to the left that are, you know, I mean, you may agree more with their policies, but again, they follow their district. They don't lead their district. And I think that's a, that's an institutional problem that is, that is a serious problem. You know, Liz Cheney is one of a handful of people who try to lead. And she will suffer the repercussions. Or the other few Republicans who have come out who have now decided they're not going to even run for reelection because they know they have no chance of winning in their district. And as I've said on the show many times, Chuck, you know, we always point out the politicians as being the evil doers. But unfortunately, we don't look at the people elected them. That's really where the problem is. I'm trying to think of the Congressman in Illinois, his family. What's his name? Kitzinger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His family has turned against him. Yeah. Tough price to pay. We're standing on. There's only one answer. We need to turn the country back to all white males. Ship everybody who's not in that category somewhere else. Okay. Well, you know, I think it goes back to the, goes back to the voting rights that we got to make sure that more people are voting. We got to make it possible for people to get to the ballot box and have their votes counted. Well, we also have to make it, and I know this is radical and it's not going to happen, but we have to make it fair that nationally it's one person, one vote. You give Wyoming the same two senators that you give California. The country is totally unbalanced. You have, I don't know what the percentages are. Maybe you guys do, but, you know, a small minority controls the country population-wise. You take those states, as I said, between the mountains and cut out a few in the Northeast, you know, the North, like Minnesota and Michigan and, you know, and Texas, but you got the South Dakota's, North Dakota's, Idaho's, Montana's, Wyoming's, Kansas, et cetera. They control national politics. Electoral College, two senators per state may have worked in, you know, 1776 when there were 13 colonies. I'm not sure it works now. Not that I think it's ever going to be a change. So when you look at the map of the 2020 vote, and you've got a blue West Coast, you've got a blue Northeast, a blue Georgia. Thank you, Rebecca. And a blue Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan. And that's it. Pennsylvania. Oh, you're well. And yeah, Pennsylvania. They get a blue Northeast. You get a red, you get a red Wisconsin. You know, Wisconsin with its history of progressive politics in the 20th century has turned radically to the right. And it's not the Wisconsin that I remember from my childhood. Nor the one I grew up in. You just have to cut out Madison, then you're okay. Madison's an island. Well, I mean, it's a time to reflect today. And of course, a lot of Americans are. And I'm sure, you know, there are some that are reflecting on God. If we had only fought a little harder, we could have taken over the government. I'm sure there was some reflecting on that as well. Maybe not saying it too out loud because they've only died at 720 people. I've got a bunch more to get to in the next 12 months. So speaking of reflection, throw it in something else positive. We do have a COVID pill now coming. You know, we have made advances in treating COVID and even though right now as we sit here, the infection rates are surging, it still is promising that we are making advances in terms of addressing that pandemic. And so that's that's an encouraging thing. Yeah, that Trump vaccine is something, isn't it? I'm glad he pushed it so hard so early. About so there's the pill. But now we also in addition to the I think there's a new variant out of France. But now we have something that people are calling flu rona, which is a combination yet twin demics the flu and the coronavirus at the same time. Just a mess. Well, it's a race, you know, it's us against disease, and it requires vaccination rates. And that's another whole discussion about how public health issues can be politicized. And, you know, even though we all got polio vaccines and everybody bought into that idea, suddenly there's this now idea that it's disloyal to pursue public health recommendations that somehow that's that's being disloyal, which is objectively a crazy idea. I think it's a reflection on these people who believe that government is bad. Government is forcing bad things on us. And now the vaccine the last year has been the most prominent of the bad things. And it's my body and my life. I don't know where they were when they were required to wear seat belts or get a driver's license or not be able to drink till they were 18. But apparently having to take a vaccine is just not going to happen. And I know some very smart people, friends of mine, although we don't see each other anymore because of potential illness. But I've got smart friends who believe it exactly as I stated, the government is not going to put anything in my body and the vaccine is bad and it, you know, it kills fetuses or I mean, it's crazy. These aren't idiots. That's the scary thing. That's the scary thing. These are college educated people. Yeah, I know some people with doctorate degrees. Yeah, I know doctors. There are doctors. Yeah, just a few. But yeah, I was happy to see that Mayo fired 700 people that refuse to get vaccinated. Now they have 73,000 employees. So that's encouraging because if they only fired 700, that means 99% of their workforce did get vaccinated, which I think is is a great example of what can be accomplished. And I mean, there is the point that we all, there's still so much we don't know about COVID and the protection of others. And I know there's just huge arguments about the vaccine. But people who refuse to get vaccinated then also are people who a lot of that population won't wear the mask and won't socially distance themselves. And that's the thing. So how are you protecting the public when you're interacting? How are you, you know, and then there are some, you know, you go to a restaurant and it says you can, you don't have to wear a mask if you're vaccinated. Well, there are unvaccinated people who are going to say that they're not vaccinated and they will come in without a mask anyway. And I am vaccinated and boosted, but I still wear a mask around other people in indoors because you can still catch it and you can carry it and pass it on to other people who may actually get sick. I was only like five years old, but I don't remember death threats to Jonas Salk and his family. I just don't remember that happening. Now maybe it happened and I was only five. It's what the country's gone completely berserk. Look what happens to Fauci and his family. I mean, this is crazy. We've got tens of thousands of anarchists running around with guns and threats and, you know, how much has the internet done? But does anybody remember or has anybody who's read anything that Jonas Salk had to stay inside because they were threatening to kill him because he came up with the polio vaccine? It's bizarre. It's just totally bizarre. It really is. That's why, you know, that's why I applaud what Biden did today, you know, in terms of trying to push back and I don't think we've been nearly aggressive enough in terms of this kind of polite deference to people that are anti-vaxxers. You've seen the sports world all the time. You know, I'm up here in Minnesota and the Vikings had the chance to be the playoffs and we had two unvaccinated players who were AWOL in very important games. Calvin Cook didn't play against the Rams. They lost by touchdown. He's on my fantasy team. Don't talk to me about it. Kurt Cook is down $35 million a year quarterback and anti-vaxxer. Doesn't show up for a Packers game. They get killed by the Packers and get eliminated from the playoffs. And instead of just going right in and saying the reason why the Vikings lost is because Kirk Cousins, the quarterback leader of the team, was a vaccine show for the important game. People don't say that. You know, they don't point the fingers in ways that need to be pointed. So that's why I appreciate what Biden started to do today, pushing back a little more aggressively. Minneapolis and St. Paul, both reinstituted mask mandates today. I am encouraged because I'm seeing on the news programs here discussions about masks and they're finally talking about cloth masks aren't that great. And surgical masks are better, but you really want to get KN95 or N95 masks. And so I think we are educating people and I'm seeing, at least in my environment, more of the better masks and being worn more often. It's not happening fast enough, but I think that's the response is to be more aggressive about responding to the crazy things that are out there. Yeah, there are. I mean, of course, we know the N95 masks are better than even the KN95 slightly. And I didn't understand that that 95 number means that it filters out 95% of the particles. And one of, I know Chuck is familiar with Dr. Lane Rowling, who was on the mask off series with me and the American Bar Association. We did in 20, no, I want to say it was in 2020. It wasn't even 2021. We did mask the mask off series, but he has been very forthcoming about information. He's a military trauma surgeon, a virologist and infectious disease doctor. He's been seen on MSNBC and also he was on Black News channel for a stint every Sunday night at seven. He can be found on YouTube, but he talks about a mask that is like a biochemical. It's a mask that's even better than the mask that generally we buy on Amazon or that we can find at the store. But this is a deadly pandemic, which is now endemic. And when he said he actually started using the term endemic before Dr. Fauci did, and I had to look it up because I didn't know what he meant. And so COVID is not going away. And we're still hearing people say, when we get past this pandemic, the COVID pandemic, it's endemic. It's in our society like the flu. So there will always be a variant somewhere, whether it's more contagious or not. Because we didn't contain it when it got here, we're stuck with it. And it's going to affect how we do things he says for the next 50 years, which is really disturbing. But I just keep filling up on masks and Lysol ever, ever so often, just just keep, you know, buy a can of Lysol here and there. I mean, it's we're going to have to protect ourselves. And what we're trying to do, of course, is get to the point where it's not a daily threat, where we don't feel like, you know, every single day, I'm at risk. No, and maybe we're out of time for today. But maybe that's a good place to wind up. We started with things that threaten the health of all of us in a large systemic sense. And we're winding up with things on which hopefully we can move toward agreement and collective common understanding to help each other for health reasons, to be there for each other, and to be supportive of people who have to deal with things that none of us would wish on each other. Thank you all. Come back and join us in a couple of weeks. We'll be back. Think Tech Hawaii. Take care. And come see us again in two weeks. Thank you.