 The pensions of former governors and other officials of Lagos State is being threatened as the Lagos State House of Assembly just recently approved the report of its committee on establishment, which recommended the reduction of the pension by 50%. The committee also expunged the provision of providing houses in Abuja and Lagos for the former governors and reduced the number of vehicles to be made available for ex-governors and their deputies. A special report published in 2019 revealed that 21 states spent over 37 billion in servicing 47 ex-governors and their deputies between 2015 and 2019. Four states, Bolchi, Rivers, Aquabom and Lagos topped the big spenders list. Now joining us to discuss this is Gideologon, he's a legal practitioner and a Chike Chude political analyst. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Great. Mr Logo, you're a lawyer and this committee has expressly said what they want to keep and what they want to take. But it bids me because I mean this might come as news to so many other people but I have talked about this issue and not just in Lagos State but several other states about how much money goes into servicing former governors and their deputies. For a country where our account is ballooning, let me say that, or we're going belly up, should we still be allowing for these things to continue? You just mentioned it now, if our economy were to be buoyant then there would be a big deal in taking care of these as governors. But as Nigeria remains the capital of poverty, I think our attention should be on how to cushion the impact of poverty on the people. And one of the areas of making sacrifice is the areas of those who probably were overtaking care in office. We all know what it means to be a governor of a state in Nigeria for four years. You now talk about eight years. Whether we admit it or not, how the number of them have properties across the state, across the country, some have investment abroad, they can easily take care of themselves. But in a situation where, for example, in South Dakota State under the pension law passed in 2013, South Dakota State as the capital of poverty in Nigeria reported, you know, spent about 200 million, 180 million on former governors and deputies, and provides them with domestic aid, residential and office accommodation, vehicles responsible every four years. And what is paid to these former governors is the equivalent of the basic earning of the incumbent governor. So it's like they are not out of office at all. And when you take an ex-government like Ojiw Zokalu, who is now a senator, you take a former governor like a governor who is now a minister. You find out that on both ends they are still enjoying like this of the government while the people are languishing in poverty. So if you are to consider the plight of the people, the side of the argument, I believe that on the other side of the argument, particularly if you understand the political terrain of Nigeria, you have to make so much money to fuel the political ambition. You can imagine the billions of Naira that go into furnishing this pension. In 2019, the state's internet-generated revenue was about $12 billion, talking about Gigawa State now, and the lowest in the country as of mid-2020 came to $3 billion in 2017. And we are amazed that in a state where the human beings live with less than 377 Naira a day, that billions of Naira are spent on former governors and their deputies. They have two vehicles with basically every four years, six bedroom apartment, furnished office, two personal assistants, below the level 10 and two drivers. In the case of Lagos State, they have house in Lagos, house in Nigeria, and you combine that with those who are still serving the federal government. So that means they will have the official residence of the federal government or probably that will be monetized. And I think finally on this segment, if you are considerate about the people, then you must look at what you enjoy and benchmark it with the structure of the economy. And right now, the economy of Nigeria is growing, people are going through hardship. So I must on that note partly commend Lagos State Government for reducing these bogus allowance with about 50%. But if you ask me, I think it should be fully abrogated to remove completely. OK, a ticket today, it's interesting for a country where our resident doctors are being paid 5000 Naira for hazard allowance amid a pandemic that is ravaging the world. And these people have to work under the harshest conditions with poor infrastructure. We still have teachers who are still pressuring government that if they are not paid certain allowances, they're going to go on strike. I mean, this is endless. We have labour on one hand every now and again. There are so many aspects of Nigeria's economy that has not been addressed, but we still haven't necessarily put our searchlights on the cost of governance. So when will it become a necessity for our governments to look within and start cutting costs and not paying lip service to it? Hello, is that for me? Yes. The only reason why this issue of the allowances and the pensions for ex-governance is not a criminal offence is simply because the legislators have used the instrumentality of the law to legitimise a morally offensive action. Otherwise, it would be a criminal action. And so it depends on how people use the law. The law can be used to provide justice or the law can be used to promote justice. In this case, the law is being used to provide justice. And again, this is typified what is happening with these pension laws across the state. It typifies, in vivid terms, at the statement by Calmer, the American journalist in his book, This House Has Falling, where he described the country of Nigeria, unfortunately, as a criminally wrong corporation, where the leaders are armed and are hidden in the safe. So this is one typical example of our leaders hiding in the safe. You know, being protected by state resources while they have been looting the country dry. I mean, the law itself is as outrageous as any law can be. And the point you made, I mean, talking about the very serious issues that we have, especially with some of the unions in the country, these perennial strikes by the NLC and the TUC are so with all the problems they are having. Now the doctors are on strike and all that. And in the midst of this, you find politicians and elites that keep on asking people to make sacrifices while they are not ready to lift a hand to do, also make their own sacrifices. Just today, I mean, the discourse today, at least on the past two days, has been about the increase in the fees paid for licenses, for vehicle licenses, for number plates, and dragging licenses in the country. And this is just coming up again against the backdrop of the announcement by the Minister of Works, that they are going to bring toll gates back into the country. So you find out that everywhere you go, the people are being perfected left, right and center. People who cannot even carry out meaningful social existence. You know, on a daily basis, you know, no access to healthcare and so many other things. And the country keeps on putting more and more burden on them. So where do we go from here? We need to go. What do we do? What do we do? How do we wriggle ourselves out? Because look, you go to the market today with 5,000 naira, you cannot buy anything meaningful. But yet we have to pay for all of these things and we're taxed left, right and center. Where do we go from here, in closing, because we have to go? Well, is that for me? Yes. Well, the issue is that obviously the government is not working. Obviously our political elites have shown incapacity to govern. The essence of the constitution and the position of the constitution is for the welfare, for government to act in conformity with the welfare and safety of the people. It is not the business of government to keep on taking and taking from the people. So what I would think seriously is that we need to begin to look inward. We need to begin to make serious sacrifices. And the leadership, the political leadership in this country must lead the way. But what we have seen so far is they are not interested in making sacrifices. The people must look for a way to put the sufficient pressure on them and to tell them that they are not the ones that will continue to make the sacrifices on behalf of the nation. Majority of the sacrifice must come from the people, from the leadership. That is the only way. If somehow we are not able to get to that level of imposing this level of responsibility and duty and obligation of the political leadership, things will continue to get worse. And then we must look for other means of revenue. They keep on talking about Nigeria being a mono economy. And the need to also have other sectors of the economy playing critical role in national economy. I have to go. Unfortunately, time is not on our side. Gido logon. A ticke, Trudei, thank you so much. I wish we had more time to talk about this. But I'm definite that it will come back to the fore and we will have to tear this apart. But thank you so much for speaking with us, gentlemen. Nice night, Trudei. All right. Well, we'll take a short break and do a round up of all the conversations we've had all through the week because that's what we do now. Give you an idea of what we spoke about this week if you had not seen it and for those who had seen it. Let's rejig your memory. Let's start with the June 12 issue. He explained during that interview that if he had not done what he did, then there would have been a bloody coup. But why do you choose to say that he was afraid that he would be succeeded by a Yurebaugh person? I mean, they allowed the election to take place, even though the annulment was for security reasons, according to him. Mary, first of all, they asked to allow the election to take place, but they never expected that they would be able to win. They assumed that the northerners would win because they apparently have the numbers. But what they didn't understand is that when a leader sells a vision to his people, what happens is the vision is what the people believe in. The other candidate did not really have anything to say. Matter of fact, in that election, if you notice, there was actually a debate. My father floored his opponent's hands down. It was seen across Nigeria. People saw what they were going to gain from a billab. And when he talks about a violent coup, my father was adamant on not being violent. My father was one who secured the nation from having blood all over the country. I want to start with the issue of Deleguwa. Why wasn't that issue followed? Please allow me to respond to a few submissions of the movement. Please make sure you answer mine too. But not allow me to follow up, please. First of all, IBD as a Nigerian and a former military president has the right to own an opinion. It is protected by the 1999 constitution at the fundamental human rights of freedom to speak on issues. And whether the woman relaxes it or not, he has a better understanding of the intricate logic of the Nigerian federation. There is anything called federation in this country. There are a lot of achievements that IBD put forward when he was president. So in June 12th, he does his job. Let me say clearly that if we had a truly federal constitution, if we had a system that allows for devolution of power and if you like resource control, we ordinarily would have had states that are effective, efficient and effective. We would have states that are viable. But tragically, what we have, is a pseudo-federal constitution where you have a federal government that controls just about everything, where you have a rent-taking and a rent-seeking system. You have states that are practically, if you like, not viable. That is why most people who are opposed to the call for creation of more states have the opinion that the system you have, how effective, how efficient are they, how viable are they. But I want to say that what we must do first in the call for a truly prosperous nation is to ask the National Assembly to allow for devolution of power, allow for resource control, set the states across this country to be able to manage their resources. But I can tell you one thing for free. You know, the average man on the street does not believe so. You have not seen the end-staffed riders, the end-staffed protest. And you know that those things, that protest, almost went out of control. It almost became what you would call a fight for democracy. People had already started asking for the president to resign. It was no longer an end to police brutality. It had become a question of the systematic or the systemic rule of the APC. And we are seeing that everywhere. Whose responsibility is it to give these young people a sense of direction? I'm hoping that you wouldn't say government because government can't do everything for us. Where is the role of the home? Where is the whole role of society? Who are the mentors and the idols that these people are supposed to look to to give them a sense of direction? Please don't say government. I know you don't want me to say government, but the truth of the matter is that it is a government when the government creates an institution or a system that directly engages the youth. Maybe, for example, there is a youth... So you're telling me... I'm sorry, Shadow, you're telling me that families, that parents, that guardians, that people who are the ones that are responsible for bringing up these young people should totally justice in that responsibility for the government. And so the government now is responsible for appointing your children in the right direction and telling them what to do. What do you as a parent do? What is your responsibility then? What I'm telling you is this. The parents have raised their kids. They have sent them to school. The educational system takes it from where they are in school to teach them to get them to have the best education they can have in that educational system. But when they leave school and come back to the job market, when they go out to seek for a job, they need something that gives them a sense of purpose. Maybe that gives them a sense of purpose of contributing positively to the society or to themselves. Well, that's what we had all through the week a little bit of everything. My name is Mary Anacorn. I hope you enjoyed the show. I'll see you on Monday on Plus Politics.