 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Owen Lewis and I'm delighted that today we are joined by Virginia Sincoveccius, who is the European Commissioner for Environment, Oceans and Fisheries. I'd like to particularly thank him for sparing the time to be with us today. Virginia Sincoveccius has been European Commissioner for the Environment, Oceans and Fisheries since 2019. Previously he served as Minister of Economy in the Government of Lithuania from 2017 to 2019 and before that was Chair of the Economic Committee in the Lithuanian Parliament. Before his election to Parliament in 2016, the Commissioner was the team lead for regulatory affairs at Invest Lithuania and the Project Coordinator for Lithuanian Airports. The Commissioner holds degrees in International Relations at BA and International Relations at the Fairs from Aberystwyth and an MA in European International Affairs from Marsh Street University. His title today is the EU's Strategy for Environmental Recovery. He will speak to us for about 20 minutes and after his presentation we will go to a question and answer session with you, our audience. You'll be able to join this discussion with the Q&A function, which you see there on the bottom of your Zoom screen. I'd encourage you to feel free to send your questions in throughout the session rather than waiting to the end and I'd also like to ask you please to identify yourself and any affiliation when you ask a question. A reminder that today's presentation and the Q&A session will be on the record. You're also encouraged to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle EPA, IEEE, but firstly let me please hand over to Laura Burke, Director General of the Environmental Protection Agency for some opening remarks please, Laura. Thank you very much all and good afternoon everybody. I'm absolutely delighted that the Commissioner could take time out today to join us and to give us his insights with regard to how the EU intends setting Europe on a course for environmental recovery. And maybe just for a couple of minutes to talk about the Irish situation and how that I suppose ultimately will link in with the European priorities. Of course Ireland has a its part to play in achieving an environmental recovery and a transition to a climate resilient by diversity rich and climate neutral economy. So overall assessment from the EPA's most recent state of the environmental report which was published in November last year. It highlights that the overall quality of Ireland's environment is not what it should be, and the outlook is not optimistic on unless we accelerate the implementation of solutions across all sectors and society. It reveals that enduring and systemic challenges are putting pressure on the environment and remain to be solved. And these cut across environmental topics such as climate, water, air, biodiversity and waste, and across all sectors of the society and economy and organization so whether it be business, policy, individuals in their own homes. All of these have a role to play with regard to our environmental standards and environmental recovery. Ireland is already losing out on much of what is important in our environment, unspoiled areas are being squeezed out, and we're losing our pristine waters and the habitats that provide vital spaces for biodiversity. More than ever, Ireland's green and blue spaces which include things like urban parks, posts, lakes, rivers, forests and bogs are essential components of our health infrastructure. And we've seen this really over the last year and a half when we've all been keeping more local into and recognizing the importance there for our local environment. So really, when we talk about the environment we're talking about our own health and well being. And the key message from the state of the environmental report is that the absence of an overarching national environmental policy position is negatively impacting on success across multiple environmentally related plans and policies. And effectively the sum of the parts don't make up a coherent whole. There's no for example eight environmental action program in an Irish context. Environmental issues such as climate change, air, water, biodiversity that can't be looked at in isolation as their complex interconnected and need to be tackled in an integrated way. We've many individual plans and programs, but they don't as those all come together as one overall policy position for the country. And so that's what we're saying we need now, and we need to be clear on our ambition to protect Ireland's environment in the short and medium and long term, and our commitment to live up to this clean green image of Ireland. A policy position would provide a national vision that all government departments, agencies, businesses, communities and individuals can sign up to, and so we can all play our part in protecting the environment. Our report also of course calls for better implementation and delivery of existing legislation and policies. And I know this is something that is close to the heart of our colleagues in the European Commission as well. Many plans and programs are already in place, which if fully implemented will go a long way to resolving persistent environmental issues for implementation of and compliance with legislation is a must to protect our environment. Finally, it is important to reflect that as Ireland emerges from the COVID-19 pandemic, and we look to stimulate economic recovery, we need to do so in a green way and apply a green investment approach. So I look forward to hearing the commissioners thoughts on Europe's approach to this and how it will as well support Member States such as Ireland in delivering this green recovery that we're looking forward to, because we must all remember that a clean environment provides opportunity to deliver health, social and economic dividends that ultimately will support resilience and recovery. So thank you very much. And I really look forward now to hearing the commissioners talk. Thank you. Thank you for your introduction and thank you for your remarks. Of course, good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for this work and Professor Lewis, my also sincere thanks to the Institute of International and European Affairs and the Irish Environment Protection Agency for this kind of invitation to me. Today we are talking virtually but I'm of course very happy to say that I'll be visiting the Republic in a few weeks, and you've asked me to address a very broad question, and they use strategy for environmental recovery. And I'll do what I can to cover some main areas and I'll be happy of course to address further areas and the questions at the end. I have to say I like very much this formulation when you talk about environmental recovery you do two things. You accept that there is a real crisis, not one problem but the whole complex of problems that need to be addressed. And you agree that there is hope, we can recover, we are not passives. And in its late in the day for many of these problems but they do have solutions and many of which actually already and waiting to be implemented and as the European environment it's my job to make those solutions to be better known, to be well implemented in member states, and to keep, you know, making that case for the implementation, not only member state level but but also cities, regional governments and so on. And because it's a very strong case, and I think what's most importantly, it's wins over more and more people all the time, and it sends very powerful message. And this is this complex of problems. Problems like climate change, biodiversity loss and pollution which are not unique to Europe. They are driven by the same process all over the world and by the unsustainable exploitation of natural resource production and consumption patterns, the rapid pace of urbanization. And when we enter in the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, we begin to see both the fragility of our current economic model, and the extent to which our input on nature is undermining human well being, and in, and compromising our efforts at sustainable development, we need integrated solutions, a systemic approach that tackles these global environmental and climate crisis, together as a part of a green transition that protects and nurtures the planet we depend on and this is the optimism I mentioned at the beginning of the European Green Deal. It commits the EU to promoting and implementing ambitious policies for environment and climate, but not just in Europe or in Ireland but around the globe. It's a plan for recovery for a green recovery, a plan for joint international efforts, global solidarity, multilateralism at its core and preventing any lapse into a short term recovery based on fossil fuels, and the intensive use of resources. And Europe needs to set a credible example, showing that a green transition is possible and most importantly feasible. So that's the big picture, which we have to keep in mind. In practice, the Green Deal means very specific initiatives in policy areas that are connected like climate and biodiversity, but also agriculture, energy transport, waste management and so on. And it means a new emphasis on environmental governance, compliance, assurance and citizen engagement, and I would like to spend the rest of my time going over these issues, maybe a bit more carefully, and let's start with one particular policy area, especially important I think for Ireland. And I'm thinking of biodiversity and there is no doubt that nature is in a dramatic state of decline. Science clear, science tell us that wildlife populations fell by 60% in the last four decades due to human activities. The decline is evident on land and in the seas. Importantly for Ireland, it is especially severe in agriculture areas and affects almost all species and the habitats related to agriculture, from insects to farmland birds and plants. And we need to act, of course, as urgent, not just for the sake of biodiversity itself but because we depend on nature and ecosystem services it provides. And if you want healthy and productive agriculture, you need healthy ecosystems. And healthy agro ecosystems also help us store carbon, which is vital when your goal is carbon neutrality. So if we fail to tackle the crisis, farmers will be among the first to suffer as soil degrades and pollinators disappear, but if we restore these ecosystems, farmers and society as a whole will reap the benefits for generations to come. So the European Green Deal stresses the need to act on climate, stresses the need for action on biodiversity as well. Europe has a biodiversity strategy for 2030, as you know, and as a part of that strategy we're developing a nature restoration law. The long term goal is to ensure that our ecosystems are restored by 2030 and we need to start acting now. That will involve new legislation with legally binding targets to restore ecosystems to ensure that biodiversity is on a path of recovery. Of course that will involve a new legislation. With legally binding targets, more than anything, we need to build up nature's resilience, but we also need to do that ensuring that other agendas, other policy areas, integrated concern for biodiversity to safeguard it instead of causing harm. And that's why we speak, for instance, of nature-based solutions that are not only good for the climate, but for biodiversity as well. My hope is that public policy in Ireland evolves in a similar way. For example, climate action and timber production have been described as the policy drivers for Irish forests. What about adding biodiversity as a policy driver, not simply as a matter of complying with requirements, but of delivering positive results? The Green Deal is all about people and I think that comes through very strongly in policies like farm-to-fork. This is the EU strategy for a sustainable food system. The goal is ensuring the long-term safety, sustainability and security of our food system through a transformation of the way we produce, process, transport, market and consumer products. What we need is a system which has a neutral or even positive environmental input. And when you consider the complexity of our food system and the number of policy areas involved, you soon realize that there is no simple solution. And it will take coherent action and involvement from many different stakeholders, including public authorities at all levels of administration. But it's a fight that we need to have. And the result will be a system more resilient to shocks like pandemics and better suited to ensuring food security in future emergencies. A strategy provides guidance and support for food producers as they transition to greater sustainability and the aim is to help farmers and fishers strengthen their position in the supply chain and the new common agricultural policy includes the tools to support this transition. The tools are there but they have to be used and it's up to the member states to use these possibilities international plans, in particular with regard to eco schemes. And the funds are there as well. Europe's multi-animal financial framework includes a specific location for implementation of the biodiversity strategy and farm-to-fork through the pillar two of the CAP. The commission made recommendations to each member state on the specific objective of the CAP before submission of their draft strategic plans and those recommendations include paying particular attention to addressing the targets that stem from the biodiversity and from farm-to-fork. And then member states are asked to set explicit national values for those targets taking into account their specific situation and on basis of those values, measures should be identified in those strategic plans. And we will be carefully assessing those plans to make sure they can deliver on this greener ambition for the benefit of all farmers, foresters and people, rest of the society. Another aspect of biodiversity and farming that deserves, in my opinion, far more attention is the state of our soils. As with the climate and biodiversity crisis, the traffic lies for soil health are turning on the red. And the impact of land and soil degradation is very large and comes with a huge cost estimated at 38 billion euros per year for the European Union and the public wants action and we need to deliver. The benefits of soil restoration are 10 times higher than the cost. So investing in preventing land degradation and soil restoration makes sound economic sense. And we are working to address the problem and you can expect a new strategy in the coming months. The last biodiversity file I want to mention is the new EU Forest Strategy, adopted in the middle of July. It includes a number of targets and commitments on actions to be taken for improving forest biodiversity resilience. There is a lot of good news in there for foresters like the possibility of developing more nature friendly activities such as controlled across tourism in protected areas that could be the basis for a long term sustainable development for local communities. As compared to the intensification of forest harvesting, which leaves these areas devoid of resources and subject to more intense floods and other disasters. And the work on guidelines for afforestation and reforestation might be of particular interest to Ireland and its national afforestation scheme. We are working on them with member states and stakeholders. We are aware of the negative impacts that some afforestation projects can have on endangered species like hand hair and freshwater pearl mussel or drained peatlands that are now suffering from erosion. So these are delicate matters and they need careful handling and you have to plan the right trees in the right place at the right time to maximize the environmental benefits of afforestation and reforestation. I want to move now on to the second main focus today and that is environmental governance and you are probably wondering how the governance question relates to the European Green Deal and to issues like the ambition of being biodiversity resilient and carbon neutral. But it's actually very important because it helps us close what we call the implementation gap. The clear line, the risk between what we aim to achieve and what we actually achieve with our environmental laws and initiatives. This isn't a problem for bureaucrats we are talking about real world effects which affects people lives. And here in Ireland as elsewhere we have clear evidence of the effects of failing to reach the targets for water quality, air quality and biodiversity. And the EU nature directives for example aim to ensure that natural habitats and protected species have favorable conservation status. In Ireland, when we look at blank bogs and raised bogs, old old woodlands and semi natural grasslands, we find that many have poor status and are continuing to deteriorate. The situation of many Irish farmland birds is also bad and some are even at risk of disappearing. Others rear species such as the freshwater pelmus, which depends on very clean rivers are at the high risk and many of the answers have to be linked to governance. Firstly, to the role of public authorities in delivering compliance on the ground through what we call environmental compliance assurance. Secondly, through citizens of course engagement, the role of environmental NGOs of course is very important and if you want to safeguard by diversity you have to implement the laws, but that can only work if landmen just are inclined with applicable rules and safeguards and if those rules and safeguards are themselves fit for purpose and sub to public authorities to promote that compliance and enforce the rules. I have to say that in Ireland the picture is mixed. There are some very positive examples, like the results based farming model developed in in the barn with the help of you funds under this model farmers and scientists agree the results that nature needs and and payments are made according to the results that the farmers verify when it comes to compliance. We might say that the model is designed for success and this model is spreading but on the downside the coverage is still limited and biodiversity is still in retreat. In terms of mentoring and enforcement, the picture in Ireland is very similar to the role picture around the EU. Those who in free in wildlife rules and commit wildlife crimes seldom face consequences and this is true of environmental crimes in general, we are aware of this issue at the commission and we are doing what we can to address it we bring together environmental contractors, police forces prosecutors judges in an environmental compliance and governments form islands environmental protection agency under Laura Burke has been an active participant providing some great useful and ideas and insights, and we're also working on a proposal to strengthen the environmental crime directive. Collectively we can succeed in strengthening this compliance issuance. Of course, we can expect the environmental protection agency to do all the work. Sometimes it is governments themselves or public authorities who fail to comply with legal obligations citizens. And when can counteract these failures highlighting and challenging them, including through national courts. And I sometimes hear that the complaint that public participation environmental challenges are a break on decision making and people try to justify restricting public and participation and access to justice on this basis, but in practice it's public participation and access very often act as important legal safeguards, especially for biodiversity and across the EU many of the decisions of the court of justice on the new nature directives are the result of questions being put by national courts, following legal actions by NGOs as for access to justice. The court of justice has stressed the importance of NGOs being able to act in the public interest in July the council and parliament agreed to increase the rights of NGOs to challenge the decisions of the EU institutions, including the commission under the regulation, it would it would incoherent to open doors to NGO oversight at the level while closing them at the national level, and access to justice supports the rule of law and this is true across all time zones in the EU. And that's why commissioners commission attaches a special importance to upholding access justice. Listen gentlemen, I have covered quite a lot round there, and you have been very patient for for last 15 or 20 minutes. So now I'm going to give you the floor I'm sure you have some questions. So just on biodiversity and the environmental governance and perhaps on many other aspects of the green deal, as well as on the Irish recovery and resilience plan. But thank you once again for this opportunity. And I look forward for our short discussion. First commissioner. As you say you have covered a very broad field in your remarks, and that that provokes me to, in some ways abuse my position as chairman basket first question please, because when you are dealing with such an extensive area which impinges on, I suspect, most of your colleagues in the college of commissioners. How, how do you go. I mean, my own limited experience of working in the university, for instance, to reduce the silos which we we perceived between the disciplines. How do you go about influencing behavior and policy in in areas which are not maybe your direct responsibility, but transport energy, you know, industry, whatever. Yeah. Yes, so thank you very much. A very good question. The good thing about working in commission that all our decisions are collegial. So, there is most of the time is is is agreement among among all other commissioners. And of course, everything what we put out is is is build well discussed and I from the very beginning I said that in our initiatives. We don't need to convince of need to act ministers of environment, usually they are the ones who supporting us. We need to talk with ministers of finance ministers of energy. Ministers of transport in member states who actually take decisions in areas which which which which affects our goals. What's good about the work in the commission that we have the clear plan. It's the European Green Deal. And we clearly recognize that the Green Deal is not only sort of environmental or climate policy. It's actually across all policy areas. We have the Green Deal, which each commissioner has to do their part and for example, if you look at the Green Deal cluster. We have their commissioner responsible for energy, commissioner responsible for agriculture, and even commissioner responsible for transport. So we work in one cluster and of course we harmonize our policies among ourselves. I think this two years where we're sort of very much breaking points where we showed not only that we are able to put a upfront a an ambitious agenda, but we filled it with the policy. Climate law is an excellent example, but latest package fit for 55 with actually not only announces about increased decarbonization goal to 2030, but also sets a clear rules how we're going to get there with 11 policy areas involved. It's a very complex package. And of course member states, they have their opinion about one or the other part but what I'm happy about that nobody is even questioning a package that package has to be accepted and that this is our pathway to 2050 and it's legislative. So it's not only a sort of a promise, but it's legal. So of course it changes a lot. I think all this gives you a good glimpse. And that is the opportunity window out there. And that of course makes my job way easier to speak with my colleagues convince they convince them of the need for a change of the need of a green agenda, because I think they themselves also realize transport or energy sector or agriculture sector if they want to be competitive in a near future in a very near future, they have to look for those green opportunities and be the first one on top of it. I think everyone in Europe remembers very well when small car maker in US announced that they will be making, you know, greenest, most innovative equipped with top notch digital tools cars, and big European manufacturers left at it, they're not going to turn electric anytime soon in just a free four year times we have a completely different ship. There is a recognition that the opportunity was missed. And now there is a even a catching up to be done. I'm happy that the European manufacturers are on the path and they very quickly catching up and overtaking in some parts, but we lost a precious time. In the climate emergency in biodiversity emergency, we have no time to lose. Thank you. I have a question from the sustainability coordinator at technological university Dublin, Andy McGuire. He asks interventions like rewilding are necessary, but so is economic activity. Is it possible to provide examples to show how the Green Deal may help the EU to close the innovation gap with other continents. Absolutely. I think that's very well said in the question and we always have Europe of this part, let's say, even in my portfolio. I also have fisheries, which is an economic activity. I think what's important to be understood and this is the message that I tried to to to to state very clearly in my introductory remarks that if we're going to have degraded soils. We're not going to have any harvest, and farmers are going to be the first one to suffer that will also put us at the danger of food shortage risk. That's most important if we won't have healthy oceans and ecosystem sea basins. There will be no fish and fisheries as such activity won't be possible. So it's very clear that you know all these economic activities. So they start first of all from healthy soil from healthy ocean, when there is a fish to catch, and only this done in a sustainable manner allows for those activities to be long term profit. In an example from the fisheries we see that where we fish sustainably carefully taking into account scientific advice and basing our fishing activities at the MSI level, we have a better profitability of fleets. But most importantly, there is a bigger trust of fishermen and women in their sector there is a possibility to attract young people on the fleets, because they know that they have a future. Where we have unstable sea basins over fish, there is a steep decline in interest in the activities. So there is not only that there is really nothing to fish, but there is decreased interest. Decrease interest from investors as well to invest into a sector to upgrade boats vessels and so on. So there is one could not exist without the other, and therefore I think it is extremely important to make sure that of course our measures they take into account social economic balance. And that's why from the very beginning, we said that Green Deal can only be possible if it has everyone on board. If no one is left behind a forester in Scandinavian forests, a fisherman on the Mediterranean Sea, a coal miner in Poland, all of them they have to be a part of the transition. Otherwise, Green Deal is not going to be success. Yeah, so I guess I will stop here. Okay, well, thank you. I see there is increased number of questions. Well, the question of use indeed stress the importance of environmental governance in order to close the implementation gap. How important is the eighth environment action program to in strengthening the use governance framework. That's a good question. Because with the, we are quite in a unique moment of, of, of, of, how to say, political cycle well where the European Commission, I would say, first time ever takes environmental policies climate policies as their top priority. And therefore was it the case. And therefore I think environmental action plans was extremely important to know, at least the scope and where the union was moving and to ensure that there is a agreement between the council and the parliament so everyone sort of played the role. And now, with the European Green Deal, with its very ambitious ambitious policies, eight environmental action program sort of loses a bit its face. And I am very thankful to to to Parliament and to Council who already recognize that that we're going to take a thin approach. But most importantly, I think what we need to achieve is to make sure that it is sort of a European Green Deal legal legal ground, which ensures that what we have already proposed and put up front as Green Deal policies and strategies that it would be implemented. And that, I think that's the role which eight AP can successfully play. We just started our trial with the council and the parliament, but I see a very positive, positive way forward. And I think we will soon in maybe a couple months of time, after a couple more trial looks we're going to have a positive outcome, which will make a good legal framework where we'll have institutional commitment for the Green Deal and it will be framed into eight AP. Great. Thank you. A colleague of Laura's at the EPA as Keanu Mahni asks, are there proposals to review the need for an EU soils directive to help the careful and appropriate use of the soil resource and land management activities across multiple sectors. So, on soil, you know, there is no such thing as soil directive to begin with. And there is, that's something that really maybe a bit worries me and because we sort of address issues with soil in our zero pollution action plan for air, water and soil. We also going to have a new soil strategy, then a mission under horizon, which is mission in the area of soil health and food. And then a also soils will be covered in a legal proposal for you nature restoration targets. But to be honest that that's a little bit mixed picture for me because on one hand, we do sort of cover soil in many areas that we work on. But on the other hand, we don't have a unified solid legislation on soil, which I would like to have. Of course, I need to carefully pick my words now and say that we are looking at the at the feasibility of soil directive directive as such possibility. I think we need, of course, member states on board, because my predecessor, he tried and didn't work a member states at that time was not ready for a soil directive. Maybe with this unique opportunity window, we might get bit luckier but it still needs a lot of work to be done. I see some positive sign from some member states who are more ambitious but we need those who are less ambitious as well on board. And therefore I think that would serve us a great good European Union, our farmers, our foresters and overall speaking about ecosystems and biodiversity protection, if we would have a policy on soil. You know, not unrelated. There's a question about carbon capture and storage. This being discussed as an important and emerging tool of course in the decarbonization process. You mentioned that carbon capture is an important element of the green deals work on biodiversity. Does the EU have a carbon dioxide climate sink target on the amount of carbon that will be sequestered by natural ecosystems. That's a good question to glean a little bit. Of course, under FIT455 we're going to have a LULU CF target increased, but also it has to be realistic for member states to implement and not all member states are ready for it, but we will definitely need to put a lot of effort into that. What's most important where I think we speaking now in a good circle to discuss such issues, but what I am missing now in the debate a lot when even I participate in events that everyone tends to focus on intensive things such as electric vehicles. Such as technologies which will be able to absorb carbon or whatever do with it and really forgets to discuss how we can actually take a better care of our nature who did it for millions, hundreds and millions of years and did it quite well for us. And due to our activities it's actually sometimes fails to do. So there I think needs a much broader discussion on biodiversity protection, on not only protecting biodiversity, protecting marine areas, protecting forests and lands, but also on restoration, on ambitious restoration targets. It's actually a good moment to do so because we are on the way to come in. And even so it was postponed due to COVID, we have huge issues in dealing sort of with the issues with negotiations. I finally get to meet my colleague ministers from Asia, from African countries. Of course we're in a good touch with more ambitious countries. I think we need to have an ambitious agreement on on biodiversity protection in Kumming, but not only 30 for 30 target which I think is already very well placed as a marketing tool and everyone sort of happy to announce it that they will support 30 for 30 target, which is great but I think we need to agree also on restoration targets. We need to agree on funding. We need to agree on concrete territories which we're going to protect and what sort of protection we're going to ensure what is going to be our management plans and monitoring how we're going to assess progress when and where and so and so many details is there so instead of focusing on something which is fancy and I'm sure innovators will come up with something, we need to ensure that we also do our best to ensure that those ecosystems which exist for for millions of years and do an excellent job that they actually continue to do so and do not stop because the reasons for that is is only human activity. There's a question commissioner, which is quite specific in in relation to the implementation side on on the fishing industry. Deirdre Murphy asks, currently, the fishing regulations such as tracking technology on boats are optional. Are there plans to make regulations to to enforce these regulations. But I think we only speak about small boats that that for for which it's optional because for for larger boats it's not and it's also you know question, question of security but overall speaking now we have a very important control regulation. Negotiations trilog in Parliament between Commission Parliament and the Council and positions there differ quite a lot. It took three and a half years for commission to put forward a proposal on on control regulation and my goal is not in in in at any price not to lower control regulation on on features but to improve it. We need to recognize it but to also ensure a compliance and ensure that we get accurate data from from our fishing fleet. And not only, you know, large boats but but also small ones. Also we need to get accurate data from from recreational fishing, even so that it might be sometimes harder but we have to know exact numbers how much we take from the oceans. So that we could assess and then even sometimes we have days where fishermen and women they need our help in support. So, I always say that it's like in the pharmacy, or doctors visit so if you want a good medicine to be to be prescribed, you have to give me an accurate data so I would know how to help you. Otherwise, when I have inaccurate data, it's very hard to to to to to to to help you. So I think therefore it's in their interest as well and we have an excellent and and and and and and well devoted fishermen and women who are honest, who comply with the rules. And I think it's also for their benefits that we ensure that that there is compliance and monitoring of fishing vessels of their fishing patterns. Because again, there will be a lot of challenges ahead of us, not only decrease decline of some stocks, we have, we're going to face increased use of the sea energy projects developed their shipping routes. Marine protected areas. And so on tourism and so there will be increased pressure on the sea. So I think you know monitoring gathering that data from from the fishery sector will help us in in in in planning those activities in ensuring that they have their patterns and that we also comply with with with all the rules. Thank you. I have two questions from Luna Duggan. The first one, and I take them one by one. If I may, the first one is transparency in the review of national cap strategic plans. Are we okay. We're okay for another 10 minutes are we commissioner. Yes, yes, that's okay. Well, this question was a transparency in the review of national cap strategic plans is critical. And what steps will your directorate general undertake to provide transparency so that environmental NGOs can ensure that these plans are ambitious for climate for nature and for water. So, first of all, now it's the member states are only in the process of preparation, their national strategic plans. I'm always when I'm on on on the road to to to member states and meeting ministers responsible for for agriculture, because usually it's the same person who is responsible for fishery so I have a privilege to meet them. I constantly remind them of what has to be included and do no harm principle which was applied in our recovery and resilience plans, I think is is a good principle to be of help in in in in in cap. I think the process of course has to be as transparent as possible to to to ensure scrutiny. Of course, we will be closely coordinating with with our colleagues and did you agree to ensure that that that's done and that we with the Commission's proposal. We would achieve achieve achieve those goals and and of course member states would ensure that they are on the path of green deal and green recovery. Thank you this the second, the second question from from on the dog and gets into our national legislative processes. She, she says that we Ireland is planning to restrict access to judicial review, which she feeds could seriously hamper NGOs ability to challenge planning decisions, ensuring that they're in line with EU law. Do you have any message for the Irish government. It's very hard for me to to to to to comment on on on on on a very concrete sort of you know matter and when I don't have a proposal, and I haven't seen it but you know what's very important is to know that this is good for the green deal and we should not succumb to the temptation to reverse such such a positive trend where actually NGOs can can play their their their important role and from very beginning you know of my mandate. We took or whose convention and and and and you know, shortage of compliance very seriously. We addressed an adopted decision in college very quickly. And I'm happy that that now we have an agreement, which actually ensures implementation of or whose convention in the EU and and of course we expect similar from from from from the national governments around member states. Okay. Alexander Conway from the IEA asks, do you have any concerns that some of the measures around the green deal maybe politically difficult, maybe politically unpalatable in some member states. He gives us an example the recent protests in Spain over the price of electricity. You know, this thing of implementing some of the green deal measures. He is absolutely right, but not only about the green deal I think overall when we speak about change. You cannot expect, you know, people to accept it very easily. It will require it will require you know certain certain adjustments, realization that that some things are not going to be to be with us or they're going to change. And therefore I said that we have to have a just transition fund that this transition has to be fear to everyone, and it will require enormous effort, it won't be easy you know when we speak. And we, when we have those plans in front of us, it might seem a little bit too easy, but I can tell you that it won't be easy. It will require tremendous efforts from from member states, especially when it comes to green premiums, which sometimes are more expensive sometimes market is not even ready for them. And this will require certain solutions. That's the only choice we have. I think, you know, what's very important for governments to do an extensive stakeholder consultation each member state they know the specifics of their country of the member state and and and and to ensure the smooth transition. Now we have a biggest ever amount of public money to be spent. I'm talking about 1.8 trillion overall budget here within the you which will be spent by the member states. And we can only spend those money once. I would fail to spend those money wisely I would even probably it's wrong for me to use word spend I would say invest, because it has to be investment into a future into a green digital, which would help us to transit. If those money invested well, they can bear fruits very quickly and help to soften that transition. If we will be spending this is where I already you stand into a past, trying to to to to to buy a couple of votes for the upcoming that's not going to to to to work out very well in in the near future because you just pushing away social economic problems which you inevitably going to face. So we have regions which were hit very hard with natural disasters with forest fires with with also loss of soil productivity soil erosion and degradation, which now is is is is a really problematic area which requires huge amounts of investments to to be restored. Of course puts an additional political pressure and then you have to act under the crisis mode and so on. So, so I think now we still have a little bit of time we have a solid plan, we have funding in line. We need to to to to act. We have a question from poor flattery. He argues that we have significant issues in Ireland with what he describes as misinformation being spread by the agri food lobby with regard to emissions and pollution from agriculture. What is the EU planning to do to support farmers to transition away from high methane dairy and beef farming. One one of the the important changes in the new cap is ecosystems, which if member states of course depending on their national strategic plans, if they use wisely, they will help farmers to decrease their emissions. Which will accompany them well in the transition and not only we speaking here about the meat farming. We also have to to to take into account diary farming, we have to take into account how huge uses of, of, of course, of fertilizers. Yes, I lost the word that will quiet the discussion. So, I think ecosystems now is a good tool to help farmers in that transition. Each member state will have to to to dedicate a sufficient amount of funding for ecosystems but most importantly, they have to be advertised and farmers have to be well informed about such possibilities. I feel that in, especially when we speak about the agricultural sector, very much way forward is usually business as usual, and we see that clearly it's it's it won't work out. It has an impact. It will have an impact on farmers profitability and inevitably it will it will need to to to the outcome which is which is which is not the one we expect and the one will will will profit from us so so there is definitely has to be a strong decisions due to to be made. And of course, farmers has to receive help and I hope that with the new cap this gives a perfect possibility. Commissioner, I think this next question from Pat Burton from very, very, very, very last because we over a time and I have to run. Yeah, no that's that's why I say it's the last last question yeah from Pat Burton, but it's actually, I think it connects with Alexander Conway's one. One of the questions asks is how can the benefits of the Green New Deal be best communicated to to, you know, national places like Ireland, as we struggle, you know, can, can the EPA help us in trying to reduce pollution to diversity as we all face up to the interconnected challenges of climate change. So the emphasis on the positive. In this the green green deal. Absolutely. I think it's a good question and it requires a way bigger of discussion, maybe even a separate one but but probably a very important point. I'm very thankful to all the NGO scientists who work tirelessly and work on on raising that that that awareness, but one very important thing that we are facing also a dramatic change in our economic activities, which cannot be any more measured, measured only by GDP, which doesn't show really nothing, because I feel that we only measure in GDP we never take into account that you know to build a factory which will, we need to cut the forest. And the factory might be actually even even even lowering the standards of fear that we breathe or water that we drink. And so we don't take such things into account which extremely important and and therefore we are now already extensively discussing with the parliament going beyond GDP that will actually show show the real the real picture of what are the costs of certain economic activities, which cannot be measured only in in in in millions of profitability, which in the end of the day I think is is a very significant measurement. And secondly, of course, it's important that people would feel the change and difference themselves that businesses would see that that that going into a circular economy is actually a win win solutions that they can save on resources. That they can reuse and their investments into into into technologies and digitalizing their their their their their technologies, it actually works out well that they saving money. For example, I always address overpackaging, you will really need so much packaging. But can it be produced cheaper and so on and we see a swift progress on that so there is definitely a many win win solutions, which I think when our citizens when people businesses will get a feel of them. It will be also a very good and positive communication that they will start speaking and sharing about those positive examples which is already plenty of them around you. Commissioner, on behalf of the EPA and the IEA, can I thank you very much indeed apologize for trespassing on the on the time going a little over the time. But there were a lot of questions a lot of interest in the vast area that you covered and also congratulate you on quite a detailed knowledge of the Irish situation as well. Commissioner thank you very much indeed. Thank you to everyone who participated. Thank you for organizing and thank you for your questions.