 Okay welcome back everybody to our second lecture on BC 308. We are now journeying through the book of Revelation. We are still in chapter 1. There's a question in the chat from Avni. Is this different from a dream? It's an open vision not a dream. So the answer is yes this is it's different from a dream it's not a dream. So a dream is usually something we see while we are asleep. So the body and the body is in a rested state and and then when we have some information God gives to us we say okay that's a dream. A vision is what we see a visual that we see when we are awake. So we call that a vision. But what John is experiencing now is different from a dream and it's different from a vision. What John is experiencing now is his spirit has been taken into heaven. So we would say it's being caught up in a vision. So his body is here on earth but his spirit is gone into the spiritual realm. And so his body is in the natural realm. His spirit is in the spiritual realm. That means he's moving in the spiritual realm. Examples it this may be a bad example but if a human goes to the moon he's in a different environment like that. Just simple but don't go too many details on that. So his body is here on earth but his spirit is taken into a different atmosphere which is the spiritual realm. And the spirit is actually in the spiritual realm and he's having he's seeing all of this. Okay so it's different from a dream. It's different from a vision. This is a spiritual we could say an out-of-body experience. We could say his spirit is in the spiritual realm. Like Paul says I was caught up into the third heaven. He was caught up into the spirit. Ezekiel was caught up in the spirit. His spirit is leaving his body. It's it's it's moving in the spiritual realm. Okay all right I see questions from Kong below and then we'll take Christopher. Kong your question please. Thank you Mr. My question is like we're talking about like our spirit going to heaven and then while our body is here. So first of all like when our spirit is there will we remember like in Revelation here the John's and his body's on earth here right? So like will he remember like what is there like two things going on first like is he doing nothing there and then will he remember what he's doing while his spirit is in the spiritual world and he's experiencing all experiencing all of that. So like I don't know how to put the question across but like I'm just wondering like two things are happening to him and we're like a three-part being and his spirit is in the heavenly realms and his body is there like so like just wondering like how what would would he remember would he be doing the normal things there or like and will he remember that yeah okay I think I understand your question your question is while the spirit is in the spiritual realm what's happening to his body is his body going around shopping and buying things here and doing things here and really remember what his body is doing here on earth. Now normally and this is not something I have experienced but you know if you look at other people's experiences so at that moment the body is usually out of touch with the physical realm right so the body is suspended you know so example if he was kneeling in prayer he would be in that posture or if he was lying down on this bed or he was sitting at his desk or something he would be in that posture but the interactions of the body with the physical realm is suspended why do we say that because the Bible says James 2 26 the body without the spirit is dead now in this case he's not physically dead his body is still you know pumping blood and you know all the physical things of the body are going on but the spirit is outside the body so it's dead in the sense that not that it stopped functioning but it's dead in the sense that it is no longer cognizant of the natural realm so in that sense it's dead okay so to answer your question while his spirit is in the spiritual realm doing things it's very likely that his body is in a very it's in that state like unmoved the reason we also you know that's also we say because of some of the experiences that we read about in people you know they may be lying in the bed they may be on operating table or things like that where the spirit leaves the body is there it's blood is you know it's pumping or sometimes they may even physically die but I'm just saying if it's alive and which which is in John's case or in Paul's case the physical body was alive but we're just not aware of the immediate things does that help you understand what's going on okay Christopher your question please yes I my question is actually are two I mean two parts so when we say that John his spirit went up does that also include the soul and he required the soul you know his mind his emotions and as well as his will to be able to you know truly comprehend what he was experiencing and the second part is when we go up to heaven we leave our bodies behind mostly and we have our spirit and soul go up would that then make each of us unique because our soul is is is unique I mean some are more intelligent some have you know less control of the emotions will the will is also very subjective so I just want to kind of understand those two those two parts mm-hmm all right so let me talk about our soul and what we recognize is there is the spiritual side of the soul and there's a physical side to the soul so and the connectedness between the spirit and the soul is almost like so we refer to maybe we talked about the inner man the inner man referring to the spirit spirit the human spirit and the spiritual side of the soul there's a physical side of the soul which is the brain right the brain and all the chemicals and although okay yeah that's the physical expression of the mind so if the brain is damaged and obviously then we see some it impairs certain functions of the mind so the physical side obviously is dead I mean when a person dies the body and the brain all of that is gone it goes to the ground decays but there is also the spiritual side which means there is a spirit human spirit and the spiritual side of the soul which means that we are continuing to be aware we think we are able to know we are able to feel everything in the spiritual realm so if you want to understand it that way I mean that's the way I understand it there is the soul but there's a soul has there's a physical dimension to it the natural dimension to it and there's a spiritual dimension to the soul this the eternal side of the soul which is part of the spirit or the inner person and that is what goes into heaven or goes to hell if it's an unbeliever so to answer question yes the spirit and soul the spiritual side of the soul is in heaven the second part of your question is so therefore does that mean that there are differentiators between people because I do the the capabilities of the soul differ I think based on first Corinthians 13 it says you know when we see him we will know even as we are known that means in the spiritual realm once you step in there then the knowledge the knowing is something that God gives to us and it seems to imply first Corinthians 13 that God just gives all of us that equal knowledge equal awareness in the spiritual realm so we don't know for you don't have too much scripture on this but based on what we read like what I mentioned first Corinthians 13 I feel inclined to say that the knowledge in the spiritual realm is equally given it's given to all of us because we don't have too much information on that so we can't say too much but I just think that we will know even as we are known so that God gives us all of that knowledge to all of us equally in the spiritual realm does it help oh yes I my I guess my just additional point would be that knowing the millennium when we have when we are when we are heavenly bodies along with the physically along with physical along physical people operating in that in the millennium in on earth there will be you know different responsibilities depending on the again as it is related to the acts of the works that have been done by people on the earth so who have who have done more they will be given larger responsibilities and these are the rewards that they put that is mentioned in the Bible so with that added responsibilities I would think that those people would also have a much larger not just a larger responsibility but also a large ability to be able to handle multiple kingdoms or multiple cities or multiple countries etc so I know it's maybe just you know a more point but I just wanted to pretend you know I try to get a understanding of how how unique is it or is it all sort of evenly distributed and equally distributed you know the the faculties that are that are provided the spiritual faculties that are provided to each each person at that time good good so during the millennium everything you said is true right so that's how it's going to be that to the saints saints will be given the responsibility to administer the kingdom but the responsibility that will be distributed would be different Jesus bears that out at Luke 19 Daniel shared that with us in Daniel chapter 7 so everything you said is right so that also brings up the question does that mean the saints who are now in their glorified bodies who are administering the kingdom will they be different in their capabilities and skills and knowledge and so on possible right because now we are back operating in the earth realm how would these things differ I mean I don't know too much we don't know too much it's not given to us in scripture would we all have equal information would be be different in our mental faculties I don't know it's something we can't say definitively uh yeah but your point I understand what you're saying yeah say your question oh sorry I think pastor I was gonna ask the first part of bro christopher's question but just again to buttress your point about the spiritual side of the soul a very classic example is the rich man Lazarus even though he was in the place of torment that's the rich man he could still remember Lazarus how did that happen basically he means the soul went with him and Lazarus could also identify the rich man and he could also remember that he had brothers so yes to buttress your points and support your points we do go with our soul to heaven thank you thank you thank you good good questions so let's just uh continue here in the second half of chapter one so um john has been instructed verse 11 uh we were kind of dwelling on that he says what you see right in the book right so he came back when he had seen the full vision he came back to his physical body he had work to do he sat down and he wrote everything and he sent it to these churches now what we're not sure is whether he had two separate spiritual experiences which could be or it was all one experience could be uh if you go based on what we sent revelation for one maybe had two separate experiences and he sent this message uh he wrote this out first and then came back and wrote the rest of revelation we don't know for sure but the point you were saying is whatever he saw in the spiritual realm when he came back in the natural realm he was able to recollect he was able to sit down and write everything and he remembered all the details and he wrote it down for us so now he's back explaining now he was 12 onwards he's saying you know uh uh i turned to see the voice that spoke with me right so again the sense of direction in the spiritual realm i turned to see so this in the spiritual realm we're operating just like how we would operate in the natural realm that means be able to see here you know have the sense of direction move around uh and recognize the voice and then he says i saw seven golden lampstands and in the midst of the seven lampstands there was one like the son of man so remove the phrase son of man used by daniel john is using the same one like the son of man clothed with a garment down to his feet got about the chest with the golden band now seven golden lampstands we know later on the lord Jesus explains in verse 20 the seven lampstands are the seven churches each church local church being represented by this lampstand and he is seeing in the midst of the seven lampstands jesus is standing there what is what is the picture we're having a picture of the son of man the lord jesus christ standing in the midst of these seven lampstands each lampstand represents one of those seven local churches now we need to keep in mind that there were many many more local churches than just seven at that time there are probably several hundred local churches or local communities of believers by that time so this is 80 90 60 years after the birth of the church in jerusalem there were several hundred churches many other many cities many villages the gospel had reached and there were communities of believers everywhere so john is only seeing seven does that mean there were only seven churches no there were many hundred churches what we can say although it's not necessary but just for our understanding that every local church would have had a lampstand and the presence of the lord and the lord jesus in the middle of these lampstands so what what is being conveyed to us is every local church is in the oversight of the lord that's the main point that the lord is in the midst of all office churches so if you look at the world today there are hundreds of thousands of local churches all over the world communities believers so you could say there are hundreds you know figuratively there are hundreds of thousands of lampstands in the presence of the lord and the lord is watching over them or what is the actual essence of what is being communicated the lord is looking at he's moving in the midst he's watching over all the local churches they're there before his eyes he's watching over them checking them and there is a connect between the little church here on earth to the presence the very presence of the lord is watching the other thing i want to just point out is when john is describing the son of man he's talking about his head he's talking about his eyes his feet his voice his clothing his right hand his mouth his appearance or continents so we know the bible teaches us that god is spirit but does spirit have a form or is a spirit just some you know cloud-like thing that is just floating no we can see here god is spirit but god has a form or this there is form even to the spirit being so though we say god is spirit we are not saying god is formless god is spirit meaning he is a spiritual being and as a spiritual being he has a form and john is seeing the form the spiritual form of the son of man just that it is so great in grant that he is using language that he he has to express what he's seeing but there's form otherwise the head the eyes the mouth the hands the feet would make no sense so two spiritual beings have form yes and in form they're very much like the human that god created he said i will make mad in my image in my likeness so the form of the human is actually an expression of the likeness in the form of god whose spirit that's where we derive our likeness our image okay so spiritual beings to have a form and verse 17 in the spiritual realm he's feeling touch says he laid his right hand on me so can you feel touch in the spiritual realm yeah he laid his right hand on me verse 17 and he said don't be afraid i am the first to last i'm human lives and was dead behold i'm alive forever more and i have the keys of hades and death of the grave and death or the hell and death in other words keys are representing authority means i've conquered i've taken dominion over all of this i have authority and as one who represented us he has conquered all of this for us i have the keys of hell and death he already was king he didn't have to go and die to conquer anything he already was king but he did it for us representing us he did it for us he's got all authority and dominion meaning is saying these things will no longer lord it over you because he's conquered all of that that had dominion over us but he broke its power over us right he was already king verse 19 says john i want you to write these things which are things which you have seen which are which will take place right so we explained this in the very beginning things that john has seen his vision of jesus things which are things which will take place verse 20 so he says the seven stars in my right hand represent the seven messengers the angels of the seven churches so does that mean that there were only seven leaders and we explained earlier angels meaning the leaders of the seven churches does it mean only there are only seven no it's just representative it means that the lord jesus is holding in his hand the people he's put in leadership what does that mean it means of course there is that sense of protection but it also means that sense of accountability i'm holding you responsible holding you accountable so leaders are protected but they're also held responsible right so this is a picture of how the lord jesus is relating to the churches he is observing he's moving among he's watching what's going on in the church and he's got the leaders the angels of those churches the people responsible he's got them in his hand to protect them but also to hold them responsible for those churches okay say your question please thank you pastor um spiritually we can see the significance of the lessons we learned from the seven churches but from from a physical point of view sir why the seven churches why the church of Ephesus like dc and the rest of them why why did jesus decide i don't know if there's another um significance to why they were choosing like jesus had to speak to these churches was there was there something about their size and number was there something about their influence was there something that was prominent at that time historically speaking that all churches submitted to them i don't know if you could help out on that sir yeah it's most likely and i'm saying it's most likely because we don't know for sure but it's most likely that because of their relationship with john so john uh was a spiritual elder a spiritual leader and he probably related to these seven churches or these seven churches related back to him as a spiritual leader now we know that the apostle paul was responsible for setting up the church for basically establishing the church in Ephesus in a second missionary journey he came through uh uh sorry in his third missionary journey Ephesians 9 acts 19 he came through to Ephesus he spent three and a half years there and he helped establish the church in Ephesus and from there he trained several leaders who are who likely went out and started these seven churches but then paul was taken off to Rome later on he was released temporarily he came and he put timothy in charge of Ephesus now we don't know so while timothy was in Ephesus he was also responsible for the churches nearby so he would have provided leadership and oversight to these churches remember Ephesus and all the other six churches were closed by in the vicinity saw it on the map there last week but we don't know what happened to timothy so it's likely that by the time we reached 80 90 the last decade and we are now in around 80 95 so basically five years short of the end of the first century it's likely that at that point in time the church in Ephesus and these other six churches in the vicinity were relating to john or they had a good relationship with john as well paul had been dead by this time he was killed around 80 68 uh and so we were almost talking about 30 years post his time timothy we don't know whether he was still overseeing them or we know what had happened but it's likely that the lord is using the reason the lord is telling john to speak specifically to these seven churches is because most likely of the relationship they had with him and he was able to speak into them so he wasn't you know he didn't say speak to the church in Jerusalem we don't have any record of the apostle john aside from the early the days of the early church you know we don't have record of him having much influence in the church in Jerusalem or the church in Antioch or other churches so that that would be a logical thought in why the lord is telling john to specifically write to these seven churches so okay welcome so let's step into chapter two and see what is a message given to each of these seven churches so let's read please chapter two versus one through seventh first one Ephesians church and Ephesians somebody could read it to people so the angel of the church of Ephesus writes this thing says he who holds the seven stars in his right hand who walks in the midst of the seven golden abstracts i know your works your labor your patience and that you cannot bear those who are evil and you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not and have been found from them liars and you have preserved and have patience and have labored for my music and have not become very nevertheless i have this against you that you have left your first love remember therefore from where you have fallen repent and do the first works or else i will come to you quickly and remove your nonsense from his face unless you repent that this is you have that you hate the deeds of the nicotians which i also hate he who hasn't here but in here for the church for the spirit says to the churches do him come or comes i'll give to eat from the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of god man yeah so the church in Ephesians like we said was a church that was founded by the apostle paul uh in his third missionary journey so it would be towards the latter part of uh 80 fifth uh so close to around 80 60 um and uh then it was under the leadership of timothy whom paul had nurtured and raised and so on so at some point they you know they would have had some relationship with john and john must have had some influence there now while john is speaking to the church in Ephesians we don't know exactly who is the lead who was the current leader of the church in Ephesians but let's look very carefully at what the lord is speaking to the church in Ephesians so remember this church has had a very rich history the apostle paul himself was there in establishing the church and timothy was nurtured by the apostle paul himself was one of its leaders so very rich history the lord is saying verse one that he is walking in the midst of the seven golden lamb stands and this is something we mentioned earlier you know the lord is moving among his churches he's walking he's seeing he's observing he's moving among his churches and it's very interesting he's saying look i know verse two i know that means the lord knows what is going on in every local church the churches that are you know made up of his people we're not talking about churches that are namesake church people who are his people right his church born again people so i know what's going on and he had a he had a lot of good things to say about the church in Ephesians so they were they had works labor they were enduring i'm looking at verse two they couldn't bear those were evil that means they were a very godly righteous people they were even very discerning people so let's say you know there were people who were very diligent in their walk with god they were also very discerning people because they tested those who called themselves apostles and found them liars so there were people even in those days who were imposters that means they were pretending to be apostles they were not right so and they were very discerning about that right so very discerning church and they were also very determined verse three they persevered they labored they didn't give they didn't get tired so if you want to sum up you know the church that Ephesians they were very diligent in their serving god they're very discerning they're very determined committed people godly people so you know you could say like good marks and all these things very good and yet the lord points out something he says is very serious very serious because in verse four he says i have something against you i got a problem what's the problem you have left your first love that means you have departed left meaning it's not they've lost it means they've moved away from so you departed from your first love what is supposed to have been your primary focus your first the place of your first devotion you know first in rank and time in place in your life you've gone away from that place you've departed you left so priorities got mixed up it's not that they have lost their love for the lord but their love for god has now gone lower in priority it should have been first but it's now gone lower they have left so you ask them do you love the lord oh yeah we love the lord you love to worship i love to worship but your love is what i love is what you love the lord yes i love the lord so they have love they've not lost their love but that love for the lord is not first it's gone down in priority what is the solution verse five so so verse five so what does that mean spiritually he says and he's a strong words remember from where you have fallen this is a spiritual fall now we don't tend to think about it like that hey if my love for the lord is not first maybe it's second maybe it's third maybe it's fifth i don't know it's a fall it's a downgrade of my spiritual life remember from where you have fallen and then he says repent so here's something to think about do believers need to repent yeah that's a big discussion some people say oh believers don't need to repent you know you god has already forgiven you your sins are already washed you're under grace you are the righteousness of god well just look at this Jesus is speaking to them he acknowledges in chapter one like we saw i've loved you i've washed you from your sins i have made you kings and priests that was revelation one verse five and six and yet to the same people he is saying you need to repent so is repentance part of the christian life or is it only for the unbeliever well jesus is telling the church to repent right so it is a part of the life of the believer so he's telling them repent have a change to repent means have a change in your thinking which will then be expressed through your living so it starts with your mind repentance is a change of mind but then it has to be expressed through how you live it says repent and do the first works so think about this how do i express first love by doing the first works so the life of grace is not a life of works but it is a life of works meaning we don't work to attain grace but we work out of a place of grace because my first works are an indicator of my first love i cannot claim to have first love without first works according to jesus so it says repent and do the first works which means my first works are works that express my first love it's my worship my love my adoration my expression of devotion to jesus christ you know reading his word praying seeking him putting him first so first love is expressed through first works we can't say well you don't need works jesus said repent and do the first works because that's the only way he can tell where your first love is so these people had works we saw that in verse two i know your works but those were the works of the ministry those were the works of the church what's he calling them to i want you to do the first works which is expressing your first love to the lord would there be a consequence if they don't repent the consequence is very severe verse five or else i will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place unless you repent that means this church will no longer have a place in its presence that means the church will be continuing in the natural world oh yeah they're having a church having services they're having meetings they're doing ministry whatever it's continuing in the natural world but in the spiritual world there is no connect with the head of the church and the body without the head is dead so just think about this how important are is maintaining our first love and doing the first works both as individuals and as a community right so you can look at it both in both levels for me as an individual i must maintain my first love by doing the first works and as a community because he's speaking to the church as a community we need to make sure we maintain our first love by doing the first works otherwise our place in its presence will be lost which means the activities will go on but there's no connect with the head of the church all right we have few minutes say what's your question please yes pastor i was just trying to wrap my head um to ask or rather i was going on my mind to ask is how do we as leaders um unconsciously um put our members in the motion of just service at the expense of their fellowship and then if that's a possibility how then as leaders how can we ensure that we are not encouraging our members to be fully focused on the service at the expense of their fellowship how can we ensure that they're putting their fellowship and their relationship with Jesus first before any other thing which is service yeah so that is there's you know that is a responsibility um the leaders carry uh the way we would approach it is first of all uh to hold ourselves at a personal level to make sure that we have this in order that in our own personal lives make sure that we are maintaining our first love and our first works because if as a leader i get distracted like what we read here in Ephesians revelation 2 if i get distracted and if i lose my first love and sees on my first works then i wouldn't even recognize it when it's happening in the church so it begins with us as leaders then we constantly make sure that you know i'm keeping my first love and doing my first works that's one and second we have to watch over the people of god and communicate to god's people hey we are all doing ministry that is good but more important is our devotion to the lord our first love and first work so in both in our teaching and preaching and in some in practical ways we call the church back hey maintain this maintain this maintain this we yes we have to do ministry we are doing service but come back keep stay in this place of first love first works first love first works and let's flow out of that you know so constantly reminding people on that so these are two things we can do okay all right so yeah so we have just two more minutes left yeah we'll do verses six and seven next week and yeah or maybe just do this so verse six so there was this group or a sect of people called the nicolaitians not much is known historically about this group but some things we can say about this group one but the name the meaning of the word nicolaitians nicol means to rule over latians means laity so this was a group that that that that where you know they ruled over they dominated the lady they suppressed the lady so just from the name that's what they did but we also can understand that they practice immorality in idolatry as we will see later another church because the same group was operating in another church as well so they were immoral and practice idolatry so the church in Ephesians identified this sect identified this group and said hey we are not going to participate so he says you know you hate the deeds of this group and I'm commending you for that so the church in Ephesians again it's a very discerning group they discerned the false apostles they discerned this sect which was trying to influence them right and then the lord verse seven he he gives them the promise to overcome of the tree of life and also a place in the paradise of god which again we just point out that at that time paradise was in heaven unlike the time before the crucifixion which paradise was in Abraham's bosom lower parts of the earth now paradise is in heaven okay we'll pause here we'll pick this up next week and move forward could somebody close a brand and we'll dismiss please thank you lord for picking these profound things for my living bird lord as we understand these hidden treasures of prophecies help us lord to receive it well into our hearts and spirits so that we may read it understand it and know it and keep it keep those things which are said and spoken in the world that we will be blessed blessed person excellingly and abundantly and using in the days to come to teach the deeper things it was bless every one of us we thank you for hearing that in Jesus name is beckoning hey man man thank you everyone uh we'll take a break see you in the next class god bless by now thank you best