 Thank you very much. It's very interesting to be at the Naval War College. My wife was commissioned from the Newport Women's Officer School in 1973, and I was, as said, commissioned from Pensacola. We met in the Navy at the Armed Forces Air Intelligence Training Center in Denver. So the old story, if the Navy wanted you to have a wife, they would issue one. Well, they did. Okay, I'm going to talk a little bit about some background as to how the forest all class came about. At the end of World War II, the Navy had worked itself out of a job. America had a monopoly on atomic weapons in the Air Force, regarded other services as anachronisms. In the meantime, the Navy was stressing the need for balanced forces in the importance of sea power in a post-war world, but struggled at the same time to develop its own nuclear capability, because if you wanted to be funded, you had to be nuclear-capable. At this time, the Navy was coming out with its first guided missiles, and naval aviation was struggling with several issues, introducing jet aircraft to the fleet, and the development of heavy attack aircraft that were capable of dropping the atomic weapons at the time, which were quite heavy at the time. On the Navy's response to developing nuclear capability was the Supercarrier of the United States, and the idea was that it would operate a limited number of jet aircraft that were big enough to carry the atomic bombs of the era, which are about the same sizes were dropped by B-29s at the end of World War II. Now, the keel was laid at Newport News on 18 April 1949, but it was canceled by Secretary of Defense Johnson five days later, without even notifying the Navy. Now, the naval leaders saw this as a attempt to monopolize nuclear warfare on the part of the Air Force, and what's known as the revolt of the admirals, naval officers attacked Johnson's policies in general, and the Air Force claims that its strategic bomber, the B-36, was a billion-dollar blunder. Now, Johnson's cuts had not only affected the Navy, but they left all conventional forces short, and that includes Army, Navy, and tactical air, so they were ill-prepared to fight the limited wars that would come along in Korea. Now, in the meantime, while this controversy was being played out, other possibilities rose, and that's what became the forestall class. Now, the forestall class was based in a lot of ways on the canceled United States, and the early concepts were very similar. The two ships, you see the artist deception, the United States, the forestall was very similar, except that it had an enclosed bow, and it was somewhat smaller. Now, as atomic weapons became smaller in size, so did the aircraft needed to deliver them. And when the Navy adopted the A3D Sky Warrior at a 70,000-pound gross aircraft versus the 100,000-pound projected aircraft that the Navy thought it would need for the United States, it limited the size of the carrier needed to carry the aircraft. And Representative Carl Vinson suggested that the Navy a size limit a general of about 60,000 tons, and that's what became the forestall design. Carl Vinson was the long-time friend of the Navy as known as Uncle Carl within the Navy leadership. Now, the purpose of the forestall design had changed from pure nuclear strategic strike aircraft by a few aircraft to a general-purpose carrier with a larger air wing with smaller aircraft. But what saved the forestall design and made it really effective was three British innovations. That was the angle deck, the steam catapult, and the mirror landing system, which evolved into the optical landing system. Now, the original design was a flush deck, and both the forestall and the Saratoga were converted on the building ways to become angle deck carriers. And also, they decided to install an island. Now, when they adopted the island design, it solved a lot of their problems. The piping for the exhaust gases was solved, the location of antennas, the control of the ship, all kinds of things. Now, the electronics shown here, this is the forestall issue was commissioned, and that shows you later in her career. Now, the electronics on the first picture are the SPS-8 height finder radar atop the wheelhouse, and an SPS-12 air search radar on the pole mast. And then the after-mast carried the electronic connoisseurs. And at the top of the mast is that dome-shaped thing is the tactical air navigation beacon or TACN. Now, later view shows that rectangular radar, that is the SPS-48 medium-range three-dimensional air search radar. Now, the interesting thing about the design was that the mast folded down. At the time, it was a requirement for all major warships that their mast had to fold so they could fit underneath the Brooklyn Bridge, because the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which is the New York Naval Shipyard, is commonly known, you had to fold down. So, the main mast folded down, and you can see the hinge at the bottom of the picture, folded down to port and laid pretty much on the flight deck, and then the after-ECM mast would fold aft. Now, the forestall had been ordered from Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry-Dot Company in Newport News, Virginia. And the Saratoga was built in the New York Naval Shipyard, which is, like I said, commonly called the Brooklyn Navy Yard. One of the major differences between the two ships is the forestall was originally completed with 600 pound per square inch boilers, which is the World War II era design. And the Saratoga was completed the 1200 PSI, which subsequent ships all were completed to. And they're very similar in appearance. There are some details between the two ships. And like I said, they were both laid on as flush deck, but converted during construction. Now, this view shows the intrepid, the Saratoga and the independence, and it illustrates the relative of size between the forestall class and the earlier World War II era Essex class. It also shows a penchant that the Navy has for spelling out things on the flight deck as photo opportunities. And in this case, it's the 50th anniversary of naval aviation in 1961. Now, Ranger and the follow-on independence were the same basic design. The most noticeable change, if you look at the stern, the stern is enclosed instead of the notched stern on the forestall in Saratoga. They also had different design for the forward gun spawnsons. They were different shaped than on the forestall in Saratoga. And this Ranger was unique in that she retained those spawnsons later on when the guns were removed. She also had an all welded aluminum elevator on the port side. And she was actually the first ship laid down as an angled deck carrier. Now, the Ranger was built at Newport News. The independence was built at New York Navy Art. Now, this view of the independence shows the taking during her April 1959 shakedown cruise. Now, it's an interim design on the flight deck pattern. And it's interesting, you can usually data photo of a carrier by the aircraft that she carries aboard. In this case, A3D Sky Warriors on the fantail there. A4D Skyhawks, little scooters. And F3H Demons, which is the ancestor of the famous Phantom. And F8U Crusaders. Now, the constellation was the follow on, excuse me, I think I'm going to skip today. Ah, this is the Kitty Hawk, excuse me. Okay. Now, the original design was based on the Flush Deck design. So, there's a number of features that they corrected on the following class, which is the Kitty Hawk class. The port side forward elevator was moved aft. And the island was also moved aft. So, you had two elevators in front of the island instead of two elevators aft. That improved the usable space on the flight deck. And it was a much better arrangement because the forward port side elevator interfered with both the landing area and the catapults on the port side, the wastecats. Also, it introduced the more powerful C-13 steam catapults. And it was armed with terrier missiles for surface to air defense. Now, one other thing is the island had become so crowded with antennas that they introduced a lattice mast after the island to carry all the electronic gear. And this is a feature of all the later classes of carriers. You'll see it in the Nimitz and the following classes. Excuse me. The constellation was laid down in the New York Naval Shipyard in Brooklyn. And it would be the last carrier built someplace other than Newport News. Now, while she was fitting out prior to commissioning, a fire broke out in December 1960. Firefighters extinguished the fire, but 50 shipyard workers were killed. And it delayed the completion of the ship by seven months. Now, this overhead view shows the constellation in December 1979 in South China Sea. And she's conducting underway replenishment with combat storeship Niagara. And on the other side is the guided missile cruiser Lehi. Now, following the constellation was the USS Enterprise, the first nuclear-powered ship. But because of cost overruns with the Enterprise, she would be the only ship in her class. And she was originally supposed to be a leader of a class of six nuclear-powered carriers. But because of cost, they decided no more. And this was the McNamara era. So the next ship, the America, would be conventionally powered. Now, the changes from the Kitty Hog included a bow-mounted anchor and one a stern instead of the usual port and starboard. And the reason for that was that she was equipped with a sonar, the SQS-23. At the time, Soviet nuclear-powered submarines were, attack submarines were getting so fast that they figured they needed to provide some kind of self-defense capability so that she was equipped with sonar. Now, later on, the sonar was removed, but she was the only carrier that was completed with sonar. Other ships, when they were converted to anti-submarine warfare, were equipped with sonar. Now, she also had a different island configuration. And you notice the narrow smokestack compared to prior units. And those drum-shaped antennas just forwarded the stack there, or the SPG-55. That's the fire control radar associated with her terrier missile armament. Now, this is the Kennedy. And although she's similar to earlier ships, there were enough differences that she's often put in a class by herself. The most significant changes were the different internal design. She was originally conceived as a nuclear-powered carrier, but it was decided to make her a conventional carrier. But her internal arrangement of spaces was based on the nuclear version of the ship. She also was intended to carry a bow-mounted sonar and tartar missile system, but because the cost factors, these weren't installed. And Kennedy would wind up being the last conventionally-powered carrier built for the U.S. Navy. And another difference you'll notice is that the port side, the angle on the flight deck is less of an angle than on earlier ships, and that's something that you'll see on all leader classes of carriers, the nuclear carriers. Now, here is a picture of the Kennedy when she was going through her decommissioning ceremony in 2007. The top picture shows a bunch of blue-shirted plane handlers up in what's called Vulture's Row. That's an area on the island where people can watch flight operations. And in this case, they were trainees and they had to observe operations on the flight deck for a period of time before they were allowed to be on the flight deck. The flight deck on a carrier is called the most dangerous four-and-a-half acres on Earth, and that is not an exaggeration. Now, as far as the weapons for these ships, the original four-star class carriers had four Mark 42 5-inch 54 automatic dual-purpose mounts. And as the threat increased, jet aircraft, cruise missiles, guns just could no longer cut it. So, later ships of the Kitty Hawk class were equipped with a rim-to-terrier missile. That was part of the Navy's three T's. They had the Talos, which is the biggest, terrier medium range, and then the Tartar was a small. And they had to range out to about 40 miles. Later on, these weapons were removed and the ships were modernized. They had the NATO Seasparrow, which was adapted from name 7, air-to-air missile. The failings, close-in weapon system, 20 millimeter Gatling gun. That was also adapted from an airborne weapon, the Vulcan. And later on, they adapted something called the rolling air-faring missile, which is, it rolls like a rifle bullet in order to stabilize its flight. And that was a later weapon system that was only installed on two of these ships. All of the current ships in the inventory are equipped with rolling air-faring missiles, and they have been improved over years. Okay, now just as when you buy a DVD, you get the bonus features. These are your bonus features. One of my last active duty for trainings in the Naval Reserve was an operational orientation aboard the Saratoga in July of 1993. And it was as the Saratoga worked up for her last deployment before she got decommissioned. Now, I need to explain a little bit about the ship's logo. The ship's emblem is the Fighting Cock, and it was adapted to commemorate an event from the Battle of Link Champlain during the War of 1812. At a critical point in the battle, a British shot had burst open the rooster's cage, and the rooster got mad as hell and just crowed defiantly at the British for damaging its cage. So the crew was so heartened that they wound up defeating a larger British ship, so it's been part of their emblem ever since. Now, anyone who's ever seen a carrier in port is usually impressed by the size of the ship. That's me as a younger version, as a commander, before the beard. And the flight deck looks immense. When you're standing on the flight deck, it's amazing how big it seems. But what most people don't realize is that when you're at sea, and there are a lot of airplanes parked on it, it does not seem big enough. Now, the captain of the ship is responsible for the readiness of his ship and crew, and they designate duties through the executive officer, ex-O as he's known in the Navy, the department heads, and the officer of the deck. Now, within departments are divisions which could range from a few dozen sailors up to hundreds. And within the operations department is the intelligence division, the OZ division. So the ship's intelligence officer is also known as the Wizard of Oz. And these are our happy reservists. In the background, the two officers are the prospective ship's intelligence officer and the outgoing ship's intelligence officer. And the chicken is Bob. Bob was the mascot of the ship's intelligence division. And occasionally, the air wing would kidnap Bob and hold him for ransom. And they would send chicken wings to the OZ division and say, if our demands are not met, you know, this is what's going to happen to Bob. So he started out being an officer or chief. He had khakis. And then he reverted to enlisted ranks. So he's wearing dungleries. And the Saratoga was in poor material condition by that time. And these were my accommodations look like a board ship. Now, the birthing areas for enlisted personnel are even more daunting. Usually, they have like three to four lockers per tier. And the locker space is very limited. And also at sea, anybody's been at sea knows there's almost constant noise, either from the ventilation system or on a carrier. If you're below the flight deck, when the aircraft lands, you get a loud kaboom. If you're up forward, and when the catapults go off, you get another loud kaboom. So it's a definite hazard to your drums. Here's some examples of some air operations with the Air Wing 17. In this case, it's an EA-6B from VAQ 132. And over on the top left, you'll see the optical landing system, which evolved from the original mirror landing system that the British invented. You'll also notice the life nets which go all around the carrier flight deck. You could get blown off the flight deck very easily. And those life nets have saved many a crewman because it's 60 feet to the water. And if you don't enter the water exactly right, it's like hitting concrete. And then that also shows the jet blast deflector. And this is what the view looks like from the catwalk. And those rubber bands that are along the catwalk, those are used to seal off the catapults when the catapults or air operations are not in use. Because they have a kind of peculiar waxy, greasy smell from the steam catapults. Now, another evolution before World War II, the Navy developed underway replenishment methods. And this gives the Navy great strategic mobility. Oddly enough, the one who pioneered this in World War I was the future Admiral Nimitz. And the British had a method where they would trail behind the oiler and they would pass a hose. That's a safer, but the transfer rates are not good enough. And so the Navy developed an alongside method. Now here the Saratoga is approaching the oiler Kalamazoo. Now, the way we do it is the replenishment ship sets the base course and the ship that's receiving forms on them. And it's about 12 to 16 knots speed because that's about the optimum for ship control. Now when the receiving ship is alongside, we have line guns that send messenger lines to the oiler, or from the oiler I should say. And they are used to transfer other lines like the communications lines and the fuel hoses and things like that. Now, this is not an easy evolution. The ships involved must hold the same course and speed. And this is made more difficult by the fact that hydrodynamic forces tend to suck the two ships close together. Now, when the replenishment is complete, the receiving ship breaks off. And they also practice emergency breakaways in case they're surprised. Here's some more air operations. This is kind of a swan song not only for the Saratoga, but for a lot of the aircraft that are shown here. This is the F-14 from VF-103. And you'll also notice on the top left picture F-18s. And here is a, I was in an A-6 squadron, so I have a soft spot in my heart for A-6s. It's an airplane, as I used to say, that only a bomber navigator could love. And the top left hand side is the S-3B from VS-30. And that's equipped as a tanker. And you can see it in position on the catapult here. Now, that pretty much completes how I spent my summer vacation. Does anybody have any questions? Sir? Could you comment on the tool on carrier developments since this period? Do you feel a particular suggestion? Okay, the forestall, as originally conceived, would not have been successful, if not for those British innovations. But if you look at the succeeding classes of nuclear carriers, it turns out to be just about the right size because it had plenty of room for growth. And there was enough hull to adapt to other developments, other technologies. So only now are we seeing real changes in technology. If you look at the Nimitz class, they're about the same size. And they're the same configuration. So it was, the forestall class really laid the foundation for all the succeeding carriers. Now, with the Ford class and the new developments in technology, like the magnetic launching systems and other developments, we'll see how that works out. But the carriers that are in service now are all based on the success of the forestall class. Has the offensive armament changed much in the last event? What happens is it's, if you go back to World War II, the Navy and Kamikazes, they looked at the air defense issue and the saturation raids. Well, at the end of World War II, they realized, okay, now we're going to face similar situation only with cruise missiles and jet aircraft. So you see how they go from gun armament to missile armament and dedicated escort ships that are equipped with missiles and also the naval tactical data system to correlate all that raw information so that you could react in time. And the later weapon systems like the rolling airframe missile system and the Vulcan phalanx and the Seaspar are now integrated so that they cut down the reaction time in response to the growing threats. When they developed sea skimming cruise missiles, for example, that upped the game from the attack side. So there's a corresponding response on the defensive side. And it's always evolving because the critics of aircraft carriers say, oh, they're just big targets. They're not so easy to kill. And the Navy doesn't stand still waiting for a Russian cruise missile design to take it out. So there's been responses over time. So the Chinese have told us that the day of the carrier is time to leave. They can sink anything with their missile. What are your feelings on that? They're building carriers. They're building carriers, right? That hit that that exact same argument has been repeated since 1945 and around 1950 and into the 60s because, as I said, the threat evolves. And so the response has evolved. They've changed tactics. The Navy's tactic is to engage them as far out as possible and then also provide for that close in under the horizon attacks from sea skimmers and that sort of thing. So of the three native nations of the nations that have tried aircraft carriers, I'd say the three that really knew how to do it were the Royal Navy, the Imperial Japanese Navy and the US Navy. Other people have tried to build carriers. Some of borrowed carriers, there's a lot of South American navies that have carriers. A lot of them regarded as sort of like a status symbol. But when it comes to something you could really use, I'd say the US Navy is it right now. They rely more on like a GS cruise missiles, frigates and that kind of thing. So cap instead of Tomcat was a much better plane than the water is, as far as putting a cap around me. Right. The Tomcat could stay a lot longer, carry a lot more, but I'll super want it. Well, the it was the I think the Navy's from what I've heard of people talk, it's the Navy's fighter community that wound up killing the Tomcat, because they didn't want to adapt it to other roles. What usually happens is you develop an air defense fighter, and it'll kill anything that flies. And then okay, now that we've killed everything that flies, what else you're going to do? So then you start doing, you know, land attack and, you know, anti surface target type stuff. And so if you don't adapt to that, you know, if you're good at air, you know, air superiority, you don't have a future because you you shot everything out of the sky. So what's what's your next? And the folks that developed the Hornet were smart. They started with a lightweight. There was a design competition, the Air Force pick the F 16, the Navy chose what was the F 17 to develop into the F 18. And then they got smart. Let's just scale it up. It looks like the same airplane from the outside, but it's a different airframe. And it's got more capability. There is a tendency you go back to look at how air groups were configured. They go from a lot of the same type of airplane down to more and more what they call overhead specialized aircraft. And as things change, they go back and forth between one aircraft that's versatile and does pretty much everything down to same thing happened to the S three. It at the time, they were worried about submarines. So they came up with the S three. Well, we don't have to worry about submarine so much anymore. The Soviet Union is collapsed. So what are we going to do? We're going to be getting a tanker. We're going to make an electronic warfare and eventually just phase it out. Yeah. And now they taking the F a F a yes 18 growler. How many elevators are there on the cannon? Four? Yeah. Well, I was two forward of the island, one after the island, and one on the port side aft. And that's pretty much the configuration all the way through. How many aircraft of the F 35? I really don't know how many are actually going to show up. Like the F 22 and the F 35 are these wonder fighters that we go through an evolution in acquisition where we want to buy this new thing and it's got all the bells and whistles, but then we can't afford enough of them. So they project so many and it's going to cost so much per copy, but then budget crunch time comes and then they cut back on the number which dries up the unit cost. What's the range of that I don't know off the top of my head. Yes, sir. To see Hawkeye to airborne early morning and looking for seat spacers. Very. There's probably developed with the E two is interesting that they keep improving it. And I don't see the as an overhead aircraft in the air wing. I don't see them getting rid of the E two anytime soon because it's grown in capability over time. Right? The other question is, what do you think the drones are going to do now this time? They're having your own operational in carriers? Well, they have a similar issue between the like say the army and the Air Force with drones. It depends on whether you feel that manned aircraft still have a role in attacking surface targets. Because if your communications links are lost, you're out of luck. But if you've got a pilot in a cockpit, he can make decisions on the spot. So the jury's still out on how effective drones will be. I know the Air Force likes to have their drones controlled by rated pilots. But but that's a job security issue, not a strategic consideration. So any other question? What class of carriers are being deployed now? Well, the Nimitz class, the enterprise is now finally been decommissioned the Nimitz class and then the Ford class and there's going to be follow on and they'll the designs will evolve as they gain experience with the new technologies. They've got a lot of technologies they're trying out. Right now, the Nimitz and our follow on of the Ford class, I'm not sure. The first couple are in commission, but the succeeding Ford class are going to be they're going to evolve to have different technologies incorporated. I don't know the force levels right now. Sir, my understanding is that all all of your carrier classes now are nuclear power. Yes. Yes. That started in back and like said, the McNamara era, because at the time the enterprises conceived, they had no idea what the actual advantages were because they had no data. And so after the enterprise all cost overruns, let's go to conventional power. Well, the advantages of nuclear power only became evident after they gained actual operational experience with the enterprise. And so McNamara became a convert. And that's how the Nimitz class came about. How does that new carrier under construction in the Northrop area compare to these carriers? I'd say size wise and configuration very similar. But as far as the technologies, I would have to go specifically to like say Newport News and get some specifics on. They're introducing a whole bunch of new, like say the arresting gear has not changed since World War Two. It's essentially a hydraulic pulley system. Now the only big change with the catapults was going from hydraulic, which had limitations to steam. And now we're going to a magnetic system. So we'll have to see how that plays out because a lot of times the new technologies don't play out the way the artist concept they usually show it works perfectly in the artist concept. But in practice, we'll see how it actually plays out. I haven't gotten the particulars on that yet. I can tell you about steam catapults. Regen you're going to get all the business. Newport News is the only game in town right now. I mean, is that really true? When you talk about the size of an aircraft carrier, no, no, I'm talking about there's not that many places that can even dock a ship that size, let alone have the expertise to build it. So I don't own any stock in Newport News. But what has happened over time is that we used to have multiple sources for major warships. But now we don't. And it's a matter of the industrial base. So one well placed bomb down there in Newport, and you're out of business? Well, that could be said for a lot of things for infrastructure, not just shipbuilding. How many carriers are in that use today on various waters? The number the force level carriers is varied from like 10 to 15, depending on what Congress authorizes. And then the number of airwings associated with them is varied. And I don't have the current force levels off the top of my head either. Well, it depends. Because you have so many carriers that are deployed, they go through a cycle where it's like six months, getting worked up in the dock and then a workup cycle for so many months and then deployed for six months. And then they rotate out. And then occasionally you have major overhaul. So I would have to probably go to the latest version of Naval aviation news and look at the at sea with carriers with the carriers and see how many are actually out there right now. But we're gonna have a problem with naval aviators, we're gonna be able to build a little requirement. We'll be working at it. Well, I don't think there'll be an issue, this is a personal opinion. I don't think there'll be an issue with supply and demand. The real issue will be is if we all go to all drones, okay, who's going to want to be a naval aviator if if it's all run by kids sitting at a console, they're going to call them they will have a they'll probably be operational specialists or something. That's a kind of a service cultural call. Right. Money on the payroll. Right. Well, a lot of times in history, you'll see they run short of pilots because of changes in the political climate or economics. Like say during the Vietnam War, they had a pilot shortage because guys were fighting an air war with one hand tied behind your back and airlines were hiring. So why should I get shot at for, you know, not very good results when I could get out of the Navy and make make good money as an airline pilot. And then when airlines are having trouble, you know, people would tend to stay in. You're not going to get drones for rescue like helicopter. Well, yeah. Well, okay, here's a joke that my Hilo friends say. How do most Hilo pilots view fighter pilots? Cold, wet and scared. Any other questions? When they when they phase out a particular group of planes, what decision do they make with the ones that are remaining recycling that sort of thing? Well, for the aircraft, they usually wind up at Davis, Monthan. And for the aviators enabled flight officers, a lot of times they transition to another community, or, you know, they put their time in and they retire. What happens with some of them? The Navy is unique in that naval flight officers are eligible to command units that will lead to flag rank. Because back in the 30s, they passed legislation that said if you're going to command carrier units or aviation units, you have to be aviation qualified. Now they made it for naval aviators and what they call naval flight observers, and then became naval flight officers. So they get the ticket punches in the different billets so that they can command squadrons and airwings and that sort of stuff. So there is a career path for them. If your community gets eliminated, that tends to cut down your chances for transitioning to something else. What kind of horsepower would be required to bring a carrier up to 40 knots? Well, I think the forestall class was 280,000 horsepower. I'd have to look in my book. But you're talking 30 plus knots. You've got hydrodynamics involved, too. The enterprise originally there was, you know, kind of naval myth that the enterprise could really book. She had eight nuclear reactors. And there's all kinds of sea stories about she just takes off and rooster tail out the back. But I don't think a lot of that's either classified or sea story. Well, I know they overdesigned the enterprise because she had two reactors because they weren't sure how it would work out technology wise. All the newer ones have got improved reactors, but there's only two of them. So At what point in the construction of that carrier did they adopt those raw baby changes? They were laid down. And it was adopted before they got to the point where that the changes would have made your disruptions. There have been other conversions where they've had to cut back what they've done in order to do the monetization. But I don't know how far along they got when they made the decision to complete them as angle deck carriers. But what happened is some of the design features were just too hard to reconfigure like the elevator arrangement. And so that's why the forestall and class had the elevate arrangement it did because it was sort of based on the hull design for the flush deck carrier. You know, one thing you forgot when you're talking about the high line transfer movies. That's the most important thing that goes across. Okay, I have a see who's at the receiving and just sort of out. I have a sea story for you. I was a VA 115 as a squadron intelligence officer. And at one point, the squadrons mascot was Clyde the camel because when the squadron had translated the Suez canal back in the 50s, they adopted the call sign Arabs. And so Clyde the camel was of course our mascot. And when the squadron converted from a ones to a sixes, they got some 16 millimeter footage of Clyde the camel in the Seattle zoo, you know, camels are. And we were going to watch clute, which was the Jane Fonda, Donald Southern movie. And we had to first pick the movie. And they hadn't embarked staff, had no staff, they were just aboard for a short while. So they said, the Admiral wants to see clute. Well, I don't think the Admiral did. I think one of his aides did. So we were all grousing in the red room. And one of our officers said, you know, we ought to do we ought to splice him a Clyde right in the middle of the film. So we got Clyde, you know, 16, we pull out several feet of Clyde, and we got some one of the photo text to splice it into the middle of one of the reels from clute, we sent it up to the flag ranks. Never heard a word back. Next day, they had already, you know, come and gone. It was like one of those fly by night things. So, so when we got next movie night, ready room was packed. And we're watching clute. And it's a dramatic scene where someone is stalking, you know, her and and Donald Southern is like going up to the rooftop. And he opens the door and there's Clyde going. So that's my movie C story. Time for one last question. Anybody? All right.