 Any questions from delegates or any comments that you'd like to make on what you've heard so far? No questions? Well, I'll ask a question then. Is there one? Portugal, a question from Portugal I believe. And Colombia. We'll start with Portugal. Alright, thank you very much. Well, first of all, thank you enormously for this extremely interesting, extremely thought-provoking panel. Ideas and personal histories that were put forward here today, especially for a diplomat like me, are very valuable because to a great extent, and I have to say I'm the least knowledgeable of all of my colleagues here, whereas I've just arrived in Geneva, I've just started working on this matter. Sometimes it's difficult for a public official to put a specific notion or concept into what are we exactly doing in this context of migration, for example, when people ask me, what do you really work on? Essentially, sometimes it's not easy for me to answer. I think from this morning's stories I can make a better idea about how I myself position myself in this matter. I'm coming myself from a long story of migrants. The Portuguese have this tendency, I suppose, and in my family I grew up surrounded by that, that's my personal story which is not as half as interesting as yours. One question specifically to all the members of the panel is you are coming from different continents, from different cultures, from different countries. Have you in any way felt the contribution or lack thereof of your national authorities beyond consular support, beyond stamping documents in any dimension? That would be very interesting for me to know also because all of you fit very well into the new definition of a Portuguese immigrant. And I would very much like to hear from different persons how could that reflect into my own country's experience. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I think that would be a great question for Yolanda since she's kept very close ties with the Philippines. How involved or what sort of a relationship did you have with the Philippines authorities in your experience living in Japan? Did you find that they were helpful? I do not mean to say something bad about my country of birth, but I think in our case because of, as I already said, it was a gender specific and work specific migration, on their part there was also a great deal of shame to consider our problems. So what really happened out there was that it was the civil, the NGOs, it was a civil society that really helped in trying to look for a way to solve the problems of the women who were there. And it was after, I guess, another kind of a shame on their part that here they are they representing the government and they're not doing something that finally they were also able to work in our favor. I think also that for many of these developing countries, they have so many other issues to deal with already. You know, when you think about a country like Guinea, which is an extremely poor country, despite the rich national resources they have, there are so many other issues to deal with people who voluntarily leave the country in search of opportunities, not refugees, but migrants, voluntary migrants are the least of their problems. So yes, we need to get governments more involved, but how do you get them more involved? As Jibril was saying, when they're lacking development, they're lacking funds in so many different sectors. So perhaps it depends on what government and what region of the world you're dealing with. You can perhaps tell us more about your experience, you know, in Portugal a bit more later. But I guess it's all, you're dealing with the North-South dichotomy here again when you're trying to answer this specific question. I will take another question. I hope that we've partially answered your question, Portugal. I will hear from Chile now. Before I finish the question, we wouldn't like to reveal the special evaluation of the daily taxis that the panellists have given us. And let's take a closer look at the lives of Mr. Alfredo Zabudio, who in his childhood suffered the inequities and violations of his essential rights, which no one wanted for our children. Mr. Zabudio's experience reminds us of the suffering of thousands of compatriots that left the country in a very sombre moment in our social and political history. Together with the recognition of the strength of the spirit of operations and the learning of Mr. Zabudio, we would like to take this opportunity to thank the OIM and other organizations and specialized agencies for the decisive support given in those moments in our nationals. Thus, we made a recognition to the nations of reception, since without their generosity and permanent support to the refugees and migrants it would not be possible to experience successful days, like the ones we just presented to you. We have a concern for your judgment, for your judgment of the panellists who have experienced a migratory experience. What would be your judgment? The specific actions that should have been taken, that should have been taken by society at this moment that clearly reflect an increase in attitude, rather than xenophobia. Thank you very much. Alfredo, would you like to take that? As they say in South America, con gusto. I will answer in English, it is okay for you, colleague Gillett. Thank you. It is as you say, thousands and thousands of children went through this. And what I forgot to mention is a small detail, which is not small at all. IOM, through their work at that time, they got 17,000 people out of Chile and out of the prison at that time. My father was one of the 17,000. So it was a huge number, it was a huge crisis and it was the right organization, the right person at the right time. And with the right resources, who are you who provide for those resources? Xenophobia, as Mr. Faw also mentioned, it is not only a question of the recipient country. It is also in the countries of origin. I see that also in Chile. It is not a generalistic xenophobia, but you see the tendencies to some xenophobic sentiments towards some of our Latin American brothers, like immigrants from Colombia. And there are many, many ways of approaching this. How can we combat xenophobia? One is through knowledge. The other is through the attitude of national authorities. The third is the civil society participation. And the fourth is of the immigrants themselves. Instead of being just objects, they need to participate and they need to activate and their voices need to be allowed to come forward. As you became a very visible person on TV of the positive, constructive immigrants who are not seen as just a recipient of things. And then it's on the legal framework. How do you position what kind of rights do migrants have in their countries? If they are seen by the legislation, as they are on the margin of society, that is also the perception that it will be given to those who have an opinion of it. So it is a multiple... It's a building with many windows of opportunities. We can approach these from several points. And we have multiple stakeholders. But first of all, what is important is the willingness to not to accept xenophobia as a natural art of things. That is the first step. Thank you. Thank you, Alfredo. I believe we'll now hear from the delegates from Morocco. Yes, and we've got Colombia as well. But we'll start with Morocco, perhaps. Okay. So it's shared with us its experience in the southern countries that are still very enriching. And we've had the experience in our country, Morocco, to have migrants coming from the north. And they did a very good experience in Morocco and they really keep a very good link. So that's the first remark. The second, perhaps I would like to react to Mr. Jibreel Fall, who spoke... Unfortunately, I didn't attend all of his interventions, but I made it to the end. And it was a very good thing because I stuck to qualifying the diplomats who are migrants of choice. It's true, because we don't have this problem of mobility and visa, so we can go and travel from one country to another. But it's also an opportunity for us to be really ready and see how our migrants behave and how they are treated in the welcome countries. I assure you that we are not insensitive to their problems and questions. So we also bring back to our capital how things are going. And we too, because in the street we don't have this diplomatic passport that says we are diplomats, so we are migrants of choice, but we also see how the welcome countries behave with us. And that's very important in our politics and in our relations with the government. And so, even if we are migrants of choice, we are not insensitive. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for talking about this aspect because it's true that even when we are migrants, we choose to be migrants. It doesn't mean that we don't go through the same difficulties as other migrants who would be in a more disadvantageous situation than the others. So I think we have the same experiences on many levels in the countries. But it's also interesting to have talked about the experience, the changes we see at the moment. We're seeing changes in migration trends where we're seeing a lot of Portuguese now return to former colonies like Angola because of the situation in Portugal. And that's a very interesting aspect. I think it would be very interesting to hear from those Portuguese, from the people from the former colonial powers who are returning to the colonies and to hear about their experiences in those countries. But maybe that will be for next time. So let us now hear from the delegate from Colombia. Please. Thank you. Thank you. Who would like to answer that? I think I could relate and answer that and hopefully someone else can as well. I think if it wasn't for the education I received, I wouldn't be where I am today. I went to a French school until the baccalaureate. Then I studied in the United States. I came knowing three languages already. I got an undergraduate degree in journalism, then a graduate degree in international communications. And I think that if I didn't have the education and the languages that I spoke, I wouldn't have been able to succeed in a country like France, for instance. When a lot of people advised me not to go to France because it was so difficult for people of color in the media in France, I figured, well, I have this education. I have a bac plus cis. I speak four languages. Why wouldn't I succeed in France? And I did. So it goes to show that, you know, migrants, education is an important, is an extremely important aspect of the end game, if you will. I think if you have education, then you can succeed, as was the case for me. If I didn't have the languages, if I didn't have English, perhaps, I wouldn't have been able to make it in France. But because I had that, that national background, having lived in the United States, in Kenya and all these countries, that's what I think made it easier for me to make it, which is not the case for millions of African migrants who go to France, who, you know, work the low paying jobs and who are not able, because of the situations they're in, to pursue a higher education. So I think that's a... I'm glad you brought up that point because, you know, it's not just about assimilation, et cetera. It's also about what you do and what you make of yourself once you arrive in your country of destination. Alfredo, I think you want to add something on that. Yes, please. Thank you. The question is, how do we combat or prevent racism and discrimination and with true education? I will say that all human beings are on an island. We live in insular communities. We define ourselves as us and them. And that us and them can create. You know, I may be a supporter of a football club, I may belong to that political party, I may have five, 10, 15 different identities during the day. When I speak Spanish, I change. Something different. That understanding that we have different ways of being us, that perception of us, that comes very early on. And it is essential, I will say vital, for any country who will support the respect of human rights is that they need to educate the next generation through not giving them all answers, but educate them to have the right questions. Why is it like this? Why are you different? And that is perfectly fine because a child will ask that question and they will say, hmm, okay. They will accept and they will go to next question and they will go to next question. And that is the movement of our societies. But if we define the frame, all answers are here, then they will try to fit what they see into what they have heard. It's a Chilean, it's a Norwegian, it's something. So it is to teach your children to be interested in the change. That is the best curriculum we can do in education. Jibril. To deal with xenophobia and other forms of discrimination, it's about changing human attitudes. So one has to deal with it from both a rational point of view, but perhaps more importantly from an emotional point of view. So you might need specific laws to allow, to disallow discrimination. That is sort of the law being used to tie the hands of man. But you also need other things that would change the hearts of men, as it were. And specific examples. If you take the United Kingdom where we did experiment with multiculturalism, perhaps to even at an extent when people thought it had become too politically correct. But you have things going beyond just the stereotype. So you would have children being taught about black scientists and inventors. Not only about black sportsmen and singers. That is very serious. When we are talking about the war, World War II, World War I, we will talk about the Africans, the Caribbean, who have fought in that war for Britain. And it's serious things like that you do. And I think it's extremely important because the young children, before they learn xenophobia, they accept everything as okay. So we have to put out the counter information and the rational facts and figures are useful, but they are not enough. Because the xenophobic decisions we make, like many other decisions we make, is not based on rationality at all. And how precisely do you put out that counter information that you're talking about when in Europe, for instance, right now we're living in an environment of, you know, there's a financial crisis and so on and a lot of the political parties are playing on that, on the fear of people to blame migrants for the woes the countries are going to in a country like France, for instance, we have the far right that's doing extremely well right now in opinion polls because precisely of the blame that's being laid on migrants, how do you account it and that sort of information when even the politicians the people who are supposed to be leading the country are responsible? I think there's a difference between what the political sort of arguments against migration and the general public xenophobia. For the politicians, at least we know what the game is. That France, where politicians are being blaming migrants even deporting people and things like that, there are people in France of migrant stock who say we don't want these bloody migrants. They're saying it because now it's an economic argument. Now, the migrants need to ally themselves with the bigger issues. For example, if it's work, in the United Kingdom we've seen a phenomenon which I thought is quite good in that the trade unions who in other countries are saying the migrants are coming and undercutting the local people and getting the jobs, in the United Kingdom the trade unions are in support of migrants and low income workers and many migrants fall into that category because they know that the bigger argument is about advancing the wages of everyone because today if you choose migrants and circumstances change, tomorrow you would pick on other people, women. In fact, in many of the cases forget the migrants, the women are paid less and discriminated more for many generations on. So I think there's a difference in dealing with the political one to the more general public sort of change of attitude. I think Australia wants to say. Yes, we'll take Australia and then we'll allow the Directors General to close the fashion for us. Australia, please. Thank you very much for giving me the microphone. I really wanted to ask the question that was beckoned by Ms Suda on her passport. This has been such an interesting discussion this morning and I don't think ambassadors would mind me saying that these opportunities for us to hear migrant voices are often the highlight of the program and so we thank you very much for your time. But the question of the passport is intriguing. I think I have some ideas but I'd like to draw that. It's actually a very difficult question also for me. But I think the reason why I hold on to this third world passport is because I love Japan, okay? I think there are many Japanese who are here. A lot of people love Japan. Japan has done a lot of goodwill to the Philippines but unfortunately it still has a long way to go with regards to migrants and including the first generation Koreans and Japanese. Many of the issues that they have there are not yet are not yet really discussed in society. Therefore the problems that they have trickles down to us the newcomer migrants. Now with regards to my passport I think the reason why I hold on to it is because I want to be a speck of dust in their eyes that here is the third world who is not afraid. Of course I had choices. I could have lived in Australia which I did for some time and also in the United States I could have easily been gone there, got citizenship and have a good life, better life easier to go to different countries but I was not afraid to go back to that difficult country and hold on to that one last what symbol of being this person who is resilient who is not afraid and that I'm going to be part of the solution that is I work in the educational system I work with the Japanese and I think that my contribution would be on that side and so do a lot of the Filipino women in Japan they were the early English teachers in their own communities their English is not perfect we are not considered as quote-unquote native speakers of English but it is through their efforts in their own small communities that they are also able to be to say that we are not afraid despite of our difficult lives of our images the stereotypes in Japanese society we are going to be a positive force in that society and I hold on to my passport forever I think Thank you very much Elanda and finally we will hear from Ambassador Sway to wrap up the session for us it's been a very interesting morning thank you again for inviting us Thank you very much anything that I might have to say would probably be an anticlimax to these very very interesting presentations we've had I think we've heard for migrant voices for stories migrant stories very different in their own way and yet probably connected in many ways too I wouldn't dare try to summarize it but I do think there are some common themes that emerge one I think is simply the challenge that migrants face simply in surviving what we call survival migration or desperation migration which is becoming increasingly the the theme the trend of our time the stereotypes that cast very long and dark shadows across the pathways of the migrants that can tip over very quickly into being xenophobia something that we all have to guard against I think the hard work and the resilience was a word that was used very often that is required in order to survive but eventually to succeed and yet out of this all the belief that somehow or other the difficulties that they faced in the end made you probably better and stronger and more positive people which is really I think probably the best outcome that one really could hope for and I think it's good that we come out on that positive note and recognize again by doing this panel we're simply emphasizing that migration is all about people and we cannot lose that in the midst of statistics and talks about generalities about migration I would also like to just one word of caution I think that although the migrant voices have mentioned specific countries that may be with some discomfort for the countries that were mentioned their representatives the difficulties that the migrants mentioned are applicable to all countries I think I don't think any of us are spared that and we heard a lot about that even in south south migration there's a good deal of discrimination and stereotypes that occur there so let's say that just in order that people don't feel sensitive about it and I think that leads me to say also that in mentioning these problems the broad applicability of migrants experiences is why we are launching this global information campaign which you will see later in the day for which we will be seeking a lot of support so let me simply ask you to give a round of very well merited applause for all of our moderator and the members of our panel thank you all very much