 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am honored to be joined by Mr. Luke Kondrich and Dominic Tancredi from woodshed stage art. Welcome guys So just real quick to explain what we're gonna be talking about This is super cool because we're talking about the the technology behind bass drum art and that that is your company, which we will talk about does a lot of different things, but you guys make a Amazing bass drum art, which there's tech behind that it started as painting went to stickers went to just different things But now 2023 you guys have some pretty serious technology. So I Said it before I love ideas like this. So thank you guys for coming coming up with this great idea Okay, so real quick before we start people have probably gotten used to it. It's a great thing We have another upper tier patreon member Which really helps the show there's so many of these now that it's it's it's turned into a thing that helps really support the show So thank you to David Saggerton JD Saggerton custom symbols now David. I got to hang out with at the Chicago drum show We we literally had hibachi dinner together and we both caught shrimp in our mouth at the hibachi restaurant That's super cool. So David does custom symbols The coolest thing is he heard about Nicky moon's symbol camp on the podcast Signed up for it and is now making custom symbols Because of that. So how cool is that? It's just awesome incredible all good guys all good people. So check out D. Saggerton DSAG you are to end on Instagram to see what David is doing and thank you David for signing up the upper tier of patreon So I'll let you jump in here First off, why don't you tell us just kind of a quick little rundown? We can talk about it more in full detail at the end But about what you guys do to kind of give people like why why do these guys know about this, you know? Yeah Yeah, so I'm a drummer first and foremost and I started a business When I was just out of high school actually helping other drummers other students of mine I was teaching and I can you know go into the whole story behind that But basically one of the things that put us on the map that we still do almost 25 years later is printing artwork onto bass drum heads and Primarily band logos but other artwork and things like that and that's something that we've been doing For pretty much since day one and the technology has come You know Quite a long way in just about a hundred years, you know Luke and I got to talk in you know one day over some beers and we were talking about How the industry has changed in a lot of ways but in a lot of other technology drums are very similar To what they've been, you know 50 80 90 100 years ago a lot of things are still happening But you know the the artwork that's on the bass drum heads has been something that always caught my eye Not just as a as a you know Kid that always looked up to rock stars But also as an artist and as a guy that was always into graphic design That was a way to kind of blend those two worlds together And that was a way for me to know who the bands were when I was looking at them You know in concert or on a tv or you know in photos of modern drummer and all that kind of stuff and what gear they played And who they played with and all that stuff and luke and I just got to talking like over some beers one day about how The progression of the artwork changed with the technology of the printing that was available Um, you know going back to the 20s and all the hand painting all the way through what's you know What we're doing now in our shop You know like literally a hundred feet away from where we're recording this episode Yeah Yeah, yeah, so you know in us being I mean like we're like literally a block away from the rock hall You know and getting to go there and getting to see the things that are hanging up on the walls at the rock hall And you know getting to see some of the heads that we're gonna you know Talk a little bit about too about how The printing and the whole technology about putting your name on the drum head has changed But the fact that you know drummers and band leaders still want their name out there hasn't changed over the last hundred years It's just how you do it, you know So we thought that might be you know Something kind of cool to dive into for all the fellow drum nerds out there like us that You know get into all this stuff and maybe solve like the Beatles head and saw the you know Iconic ones that all of us remember a little bit, you know, yeah Yeah, for sure. I mean it's like it's like the the kind of classic like, you know you like duh That's real estate to put the band name. That's really to put the album logo where maybe before You know a hundred however many years ago when the drums weren't so Commercial, I guess I'd say you may they maybe didn't think about it But this has been like you said a hundred plus year endeavor To to get something on there that sticks that doesn't vibrate off that doesn't get ruined by the weather So I'll let whoever whichever one of you guys wants to start I have some photos here that I'm going to be looking at and we'll do our best to Explain what we're looking at for folks who were just listening because I know I've had feedback from people that say oh, I just wish I could see it These are on youtube if you're listening, but we will do our best to explain For just audio folks. So whoever wants to take it away. Let's let's hop in and hear about this history So I'll kick it off What we're going to try to do today is paint a little bit of A story with the technology as well as the the changing mindset That came with the real estate that is on a blank bass drum head and it's just like you said vard. It's Duh, why didn't I think of that and as music changed as culture changed The attitudes towards how you Utilized that real estate changed too so we're going to kind of go through that and Hopefully paint a clear picture of how We capitalized on that and made it a whole new ecosystem for the modern music industry So totally starting things off got a pick to start somewhere pipe bands and bugle corpse in the mid to late 1800s Um is kind of where we looked at where we think this modern design sort of started Bands were performing and There wasn't much of a stage to perform on back then with crazy light shows and led walls so you had to have your name somewhere and uh Bands started painting their name Where they're from what their band name is what year it is On to the big bass drums that they're walking around with and hitting And uh, it kind of became an art form in and of itself They started hiring artists and in this picture. I sent you Bart. You can see there's a million different There's the national newark one. There's pukeepsie new york. There's the drum corp in detroit There's the fife and drum for fire stations police stations like Anywhere on there and all these designs are super cool. They're colorful They're vibrant and they're painted on calfskin drum heads Yeah, which is a point that we'll get to in a minute here, but sure we kind of think that this is where the modern Part of design on bass drum heads started. Yeah, and you know just as like an aside on this too These were pretty much done by you know, like local sign painters that were also painting on the side of a building This was a sign. It was just a like mobile sign that told everybody who you are and like where you're from It wasn't really artwork at the time. It was just hand lettering hand painted like lettering, you know done by You know a guy in in their local town, you know, and it was it was like a one-off thing You know, it was it was hey, these are my colors. I need it in blue and gold and paint me some nice letters And yeah, go for it. You know, it's a one-shot deal Yeah, that is that is a job in itself obviously that but it's different than just like oh, I'm an artist I can illustrate things it's like there was a guy locally here and actually I think he was in Kentucky But he worked in Cincinnati where it was I followed on on instagram and it's fascinating to see sign painting I mean, oh, yeah, it's all coming back now. Thankfully. Yeah Yes, exactly, but it's not easy and it's and the spacing and and and looking at these I mean, we're looking at some of them the dates that they have on here 1881 1938 1888 that are written on these bass drum heads I imagine it's like old lead paint and things like that and right It had to be experimentation to get that to adhere correctly Uh to the heads. Yeah, fascinating. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it like you guys are just saying Old shops, there were local people that were painting these things on windows That had someone in the pipe band probably walked up to him or like, can you paint this on uh, a drumhead forest real quick Yeah, yeah, exactly, right. Yeah, that's that's probably where things started and uh, I would like to think that that picked up enough steam That by the 1920s other big drum bands brands were picking up On that trend and started selling these as an option in their catalogs So brands like Ludwig and Slingerland We're doing this and you can see in the catalog pictures here. There's landscape pictures There's all sorts of stuff on here that is really cool And you see these on like a and f drum sets now that are like old school vintage sort of aesthetic And you could buy these in you know, 1927 money, $12, I think We looked it up. It's $210 Today's money for a painted drumhead Yeah, and the cool thing about this kind of thing too is this kind of went from Being a sign to being artwork and being something that like, well, I don't know. I'm just a drummer. I just want something cool I don't need the name of my band or where I'm from on there. I just want a really cool scene, you know, so they would hire like a Local landscape painter to paint some cool landscape, you know on these giant bass drums I mean we're out we're talking 26 28 inch bass drum So like you said Bart, it was a blank canvas and you know, they probably studied from guys that were You know, like marching teachers, you know, so like the drum line guys would be teaching these guys how to play This is you know, one of the things that kind of brought it into well kind of now we're blending marching into a big band and into like stage bands And now we're into artwork on bass drum has all of a sudden instead of a band name or a You know group name, you know, we're getting into like just things that are just interesting and I just like it and I'm going to play with a bunch of different bands and it's something that I would hang on my Wall because it's cool. You know, I think I think that it looked more as a piece of art Than it was and a piece of advertisement right the marching band the pipe band stuff was like an advertisement It's like this is this is our name. This is who we are This is a big bass drum. You can hear us and it looks great And yeah, the other brands picked it up and started using it as a way to decorate the instrument And it was more of a decorative piece That surprisingly you'd you'd hit but I guess they didn't hit the bass drums that hard that back there with those small pedals They add but still that's an oil painting or a lead painting on a calfskin head Like it's crazy those things survived and looked as good as they did but absolutely and it's uh, you guys will probably refer to it but Also to remember that these bass drums typically had a light inside of them because of the calf's head And then a light bulb and it'd be backlit for the painting But the light would be used to heat up the calfskin head to stop the temperature changes I would refer people to the painted heads episode with Jim Messina Which is the first 20 episodes or something like that. Um, which is a very good one deep dive into that but um These guys are artists. I mean, they're really cool Yeah, and that's a really yeah, I mean that's a cool feature because that's something that Brought that painting or that landscape to life on stage because it was backlit It was kind of like a cool side effect. Maybe like accidental I mean, obviously we use the the light bulb to you know, heat the calfskin up and all that good stuff but As a as a cool side effect it also illuminated this beautiful graphic and made it a focal point on stage You know to the point that like luke mentioned, you know, like Ludwig then had okay Here's you know, four or five different kind of styles that you could pick, you know, they weren't Totally custom. They weren't just like, you know, here's a painting of the Everglades or my hometown Pick one of these five and we'll paint it on your base drum, you know, and that was something that became Fairly commonplace and it was cool that they were backlit Well, maybe we'll talk about down the road when we get into like the leds But now we're doing stuff now. Yeah, like a hundred years later where they're we're doing some like led backlighting On the head so even that part's coming full circle now But there you know, there was a funny moment in one of the pictures I found I ended up not using it But it's on the vintage drum forums website. They have a whole bunch of cool archives of catalogs back then It was a an advertisement for these painted heads and it said if you have an idea for a custom painting Write down the description of it and mail it to us And then we will have our sales team quote the painting Write it back and then mail it back to you as a quote Attach it. I'm like the homing kid Right Like the pony express pulls into town I've quit playing the drums by this point That's hired man. I haven't played drums in years. Wow Yeah, a little faster than that. But yeah, I mean that's crazy though You'd say like I want my nude silhouette bass drum head or I want my bathing girl I mean, there's some like interesting. I'm looking at the Ludwig. Right. It's like very like Uh, I guess at the time that would be provocative, but it's like, yeah, I want pirouette and clown. It's it's an interesting Some of them are very like there's jazz pirates. There's just some yeah, it's it's very like 1920s Yeah, yeah It's really cool. Yeah, and there's a picture that we have there too. It's the only one I could find online It's a picture of an artist in one of the drum shops Painting on these heads. Yeah, and he's got like six different sized bass drums and then he's painting onto the head itself Yeah, that's the lady factory. It's so crazy. Is that lady? Oh cool. Yeah, I'm sure you're familiar with that Yeah, well just because that other episode but I never noticed there's like a hand back there that I've never noticed in the bottom corner Which is uh, interesting underneath the bass drum. So there's a mystery person back there, but um, yeah, very cool Very cool picture and and I as far as I know that's one of the only photos If not the only photo of this process being done Yeah Out there so this episode is brought to you by blue goose classic percussion Blue goose classic percussion has provided vintage drum restoration and sales online for over five years They are pleased to announce that they will be opening Atlanta drum shop a full service drum destination in Atlanta this summer Featuring new and used gear by all your favorite brands vintage drums are their original and strongest passion And they currently have hundreds of vintage sets in inventory Some but not all of the inventory is online. So if you're looking for something in particular, it's best to get in touch directly They're open into the public this summer 2023 join the mailing list to get updates at Atlanta drum shop dot com Their social media is at Atlanta drum shop. And if you love vintage drums and cymbals check out blue goose dot com That's bl o o goose dot com and blue goose classic percussion on ebay That's bl o o goose classic percussion So thank you to blue goose and Atlanta drum shop for sponsoring this episode, you know, and like you said too This is a job. I mean it wasn't before this it was, you know Like the local painter in town that was a sign painter But now this became a job that a guy in the leady factory had that, you know, there were guys putting together You know like assembling drums and there were guys cutting the bearing edges all the other parts of the drum build But then there was a guy in this other department that was all day long eight to five painting Drum heads all day long and he was painting the same five, you know scenes every day And it was a grind like anybody else. He had a bunch of time clock and there were no dream, you know It's back to the pictures of the factory right It was no it was just a job But you know, I mean, it's a cool job looking back. But you know, I mean You know, we're talking hours and hours and hours of labor that this Incredible specialist artist had to do that if he was out sick that day for some reason or his wife had a baby that day He was out of the shop that thing wouldn't get painted And it might take hours or days to get it right and if he messed it up He might had to start all over and you know, there's a lot of you know for 12 dollars I know, you know, like minimum wage was different back then but there was a lot of Yeah, but I wonder and I think I forget the name and the details someone comment But I remember watching something about bob ross where There's a style of painting where it's called like wet painting or something where it's It's a where he can produce a beautiful Scenic oil or whatever it was acrylic or oil like painting in like 30 minutes There's some style where it layers and it goes where I think I would imagine these guys have some sort of technique That's like not paint by numbers, but where again is that bob ross? How did you do that for 30 minutes? No, there's some style where it's Yes, exactly and there's little squirrels all over and stuff But I imagine it has some sort of technique that it's it's it's it's that wet painting I think I'm getting that Remotely correct. But who knows that sounds about right. Yeah, and you pay them for the years Not the minutes, you know what I mean? It obviously takes 20 years of you know, I mean the practice Sort of the nail in a half hour. So yeah, absolutely and back to the point about the internal lights There is a picture of a vintage kit with the Golden Gate bridge from san francisco on the bass drum and it's backlit and it looks sweet And that's a san francisco drum company kit too, which is actually yeah like a reproduction. Yeah vintage repro Yep, that's got to be a 28 inch bass drum But like when you had that much blank real estate, of course, you're going to have a big, you know Painting on there to broadcast the artwork But there was a catalog that we got from 1938. It's a rogers catalog And uh, it's selling the bass drum internal light for these shells And you know when you think about it in modern times with electricity and all this stuff You look at these cables That are wound into a wooden shell that are lacquer. Yeah, probably nitrocellulose lacquer. It's a fire hazard and led paint Everything it's like this is a fire hazard times 30. Yes. No fire codes back then. Yeah, no They're having them ahead bass drums that lit on fire and I remember from Oh, yeah The gene krupa story the movie which I did in a video with Brooks tagler about what's wrong with that movie And it's all it's all incorrect But there was a scene where there was a light inside the bass drum that was triggered to the front door Where the the bouncer at the front door would trigger the light and the bass drum to say hey the you know the fuzz is here We're getting busted Put your drinks away prohibition. So that's awesome. Pretty neat Yeah, that's cool. But yeah, so cool. Yeah back to that That's that's how they were used back then is it was it was a way to decorate the drum head There wasn't much in terms of advertisement that you'd be thinking in the modern way of like, what's my band name? What's my name? Who am I? Who are you? It's like this painting is really pretty It's like hanging a painting on the wall of your house. It's scenic. Yeah. Yeah. It's decoration Right. Yeah, love it. That that definitely started the change Into the 30s with big bands When people started to realize wait, I can just advertise I can put my band name on the drum head We can paint it however we want make it look however we want and it would look sweet And you just mentioned gene krupa gene krupa was well known for that He was one of the first guys to have the big shield on the bass drum head And uh, there's a couple pictures that we have of gene playing with benny And uh, the first one you can see it's him with just the kick in the snare with a couple symbols and a hi-hat And it's got a huge shield on the front of it with bg Instead of gk. Yeah, and that was what we think is the first where it was like, okay Well, this is the benny goodman band where he had bg on there to advertise that he's playing with this guy for this band Right, and if not the first it was probably the most like well known for all of us, you know that Yeah, like at least like in my mind. That's kind of the one that sticks out as now like the turning point back into Like a signage piece instead of just like a decoration piece obviously, you know Benny Goodman, I bet didn't want to Distract, I mean he had a lot going on on stage with the big band and he was the headliner, you know He was the frontman He probably wanted, you know, something a little bit more Subtle that, you know, also said his name so that, you know, there was when he was first starting out You know, there were hundreds and hundreds of these big bands in every every town and that was what you did on a friday night You you know, it took your girl to the ballroom and you guys went dancing and you know, he was kind of one of the first to really Make a name for himself and start to tour and this is you know This is kind of when you start getting it, you know into like touring bands now, right? And you know, he needed obviously like a way to kind of You know brand himself so that people would like remember who he was and they had such a great time And man, this this guy was on fire and his band was hot and they were tight And you know that was a way for people in the in the crowd to remember who he was as they were dancing You know and the bg was what stuck out And just that shield on you know, obviously gene being such a, you know, bombastic drummer that kind of You know Maybe hug the spotlight at times, you know, maybe he was putting it kind of mildly But I think Benny Goodman probably had the idea where everybody's gonna be looking at this guy Anyway, I might as well put my name on his kick because They're gonna be looking at him anyway And at least they're gonna they're gonna have to notice my initials on this on this kick drum It's not going to be just a big white calf skin head. It's a bg You know, and then like later there's another photo that we have here too of the band Performing where the bg is bigger and off to the side, but we still see that Shield that vintage, you know shield On the on the head, but now it's got the gk in it and it's got the gk Alongside the bg so now we're starting to see You know, obviously gene was, you know, probably At least for most people, you know, probably the first like well known Kind of rock star drummer that people really star and he ate that up. That was him, right? So he now he had his own his own fingerprint You know next to the next to the to the band leader's logo. So people also know who he was I'm sure he was because he's you know, probably angler. Yeah, he could draw That's exactly it. He could draw he could also You know, he was also probably angling for some gigs on the side and as you know doing as much as he could So he needed to get his name out there So now we're also seeing where that kind of coexisted in a way that I'm sure benny goodman kind of allowed that to happen kind of as a As a as a codraw on that on that kick drum head But we're still, you know, hand painting led pain on a kick drum on a calf skin kick drum head, you know and um But yeah, I mean that was I think probably one of the first really like well known bass drum heads in existence everything else was kind of Part of the culture and we kind of didn't really pay that much attention to it But I think like the benny goodman and then like the bg with the gk And then of course the one that had the shield only with the gk only I think that's kind of if you know if you pulled 100 drummers and you said What's the first bass drum head with artwork on it? They would probably save like the gk shield You know and that's the one that kind of sticks out. You know different like right painted heads to me are like That was a thing that was its its own like I don't know the light inside and it served a purpose which these may have had some I guess you don't really see as much of a light later on with with this stuff To be honest once it gets into the 30s and 40s, but the gk the shield itself is just I don't know who came up with using that shield design first I mean obviously we're talking about gene, but like what artist and what person but it is so cool It is so iconic. It's iconic with the lines the two lines. It's yeah, it it set the stage for Literally just being used. I mean people today still use it. Yes. Yeah, we still print those. Yeah, you still print it's kind of an homage back to to gene but So so just to clarify a little bit you said that would have still just been a painted Maybe they would yes get a straight line and then and then just a really steady hand and paint that on there Right, and you got to imagine. I mean obviously these Kev skin heads were very, you know volatile Obviously, they were you know a temperamental But they also in other ways lasted a pretty long time So you would get a sign painter to paint this thing on there and it would last as long as the head lasted You know until the thing untucked from the from like the flesh uber whatever or You know until you were in the weather where it You know split on your like or whatever, but you know, it was basically just painted on there and One of the downsides with obviously hand painting is you can't like replicate it It every every painting is a one of one which made it cool obviously too, but it had to be That's labor intensive labor intensive sign painter that knew what he was doing Knew how to paint onto drum heads could do one of one You know the next one he painted maybe like the gk was a little smaller a little more to the left Little higher, you know the bg wasn't as big Like you could never actually like duplicate it again Even if you loved it and even if you wanted to but that was one of the things that probably made a cool back then too Because no one else could have it, you know, it was a unique Piece of logo artwork too, you know and speaking of longevity There's a picture we got of gene's kit with the gk shield and bg on it from the smithsonian from maybe five six years ago And it's the same head You could see how worn and weathered it is it looks like it's got a split in the head and It's already come untucked, but it's still there and that's you know 90 years later Crazy, that's crazy, and it looks great. I think they may be you know on the road day after day Maybe got a little bit of like touch-up paint here and there because it would chip away or something because they probably The cases were yeah, but but still After it got preserved and I bet like guys like Brooks tagler who is like, you know Literally written the textbook on gene's gear can look at those emblem the the the shields and say, okay This one's this one this one. I can date this year because of the the couple inch placement away from the right side or something Right amazing. Yeah, it's like gary with ring goes beetle kits. Yes, exactly. It's crazy amount of detail with Picking which kid is which it's really impressive But yes, yeah, so it looks like our our everyone's you know Favorite drummer to talk about buddy rich also use that same style Yeah, and he was another one to take on to that shield and Obviously when you think of shields you think of gene kurba and buddy rich those two are it with that If you want to do that you're probably in a big band and you want to have that going with your initials on it because it's a It's an homage. It's a tribute to The original pioneers who did it in the 1920s 1930s 1940s. It's also classy. Yeah, why marine pearl? Exactly. Yeah, that's a must And it's yeah, it's also something that's kind of subtle and kind of classy and not you know Like we've got a lot of guys that that still ask for that now that like maybe aren't doing like the jazz thing But they don't want Like the ginger baker super super loud. My my name is big as I can on the head. They want a little Hints of who they are and you know, it's almost like the you know, like the monogram on your cufflinks or something It's uh, you know, just a classy thing to kind of tell you who you are but without screaming it, you know So it's also a flex When you're the only person on stage that can stick your initials on something and it is big and it's a round Yeah, it's a flex. So that's totally Totally keep that in mind because that's how that's how the mentality starts to change is it's it's no longer a decoration It's it's more like this looks classy, but I can put my name on here so people know who I am Yeah, and that that Kind of Attitude started to bleed into rock and roll into the fifties Right, which takes us into the next era of this which is the fifties with like bill haley and his comets He had a really colorful really cool calfskin head that he had painted that I think was on an album cover too We have a color picture that I think is from an album cover. It's a really cool picture It's colorful. It's vibrant and knowing how vibrant those guys were on stage It only matches the energy that they brought to each and every show, right? Yeah Yeah, and the neat thing about this kind of era too is now we're also getting into not just Like, you know pop radio where it wasn't big band stuff anymore. We're getting into like the birth of rock and roll But we're also getting into you know some big advancements and you know photography early television. We're getting into like Like rabid fan bases, you know what I mean where now Touring artists could actually go on tour and have like rabid fans that knew who the band was and would follow them from town to town Or yeah, couldn't wait to get a ticket to get into the you know into the You know ballroom to like watch and play or have a stampede outside Yeah, and it was you know, we're getting back into like that that like band leader logo thing But again, that was a way, you know disc jockeys would obviously spin You know the albums that you know that were the popular things or that they got paid to spin, you know Pay all the Allen Fried stuff But that would that would basically fall into you know line with the The shows that were happening in the in the town. So now we're promoting artists on the radio that would then have a concert in every city and Now you would start to connect the dots with the names you hear like the dj say over the radio with the artwork That's got the band name on the bass drum head, you know And you got people that are snapping photos and you got you know photos in like newspapers that now You could tell who people were you could tell The name of the artists now because of what they had on stage and their name is right there Front and center that you know to bounce off that. Yeah, there's back then there were no branded Backdrops, right there were no stage signs with like big light shows It was literally just the band walking out into a theater a school auditorium. Yeah My old neighbor saw Elvis in 1957. It was literally at her high school auditorium, right? It's crazy Well, before that it would have been hotels. It would have been at a hotel or some ballroom or something. Yeah, right Right, right. Yeah, so it's it's crazy to picture that now, but that's that's all they had for advertising So it's let's put our name on this because we bring it with us It's literally no extra thing to carry because it's already something you're bringing anyways And the neat thing was that it was it was on the radio and then it was On the poster and then it was you know in the newspaper and then it was on stage Right, so people kind of got to see like the now we're talking about branding Artists instead of branding products. Obviously product branding has been around, you know, yeah forever But yeah somewhere along the line, you know These these managers got kind of smart and said, hey, we're gonna brand you you're you're a product We're gonna brand you like a product and we're gonna make sure that you've got, you know Name recognition and consistency and we want everybody to make sure that if they, you know A drag their friend to your show and their friend doesn't know who you are They're gonna remember you when they leave because you're gonna put on a great show But they're also gonna visually see your name the entire show and they're not gonna forget you And then they're also gonna see it again on the poster and in the newspaper and when you're dancing on top of your Upright face, right next to the drummer Right there exactly. That's all like, you know impressions. Yeah, and I will add on to it that we're not just talking about You know, this is happening in uh chat nuga or whatever we're talking about in europe as well Which we're gonna get too soon with right with the Beatles and ringer But I know bill haley and the comments famously did travel around england and the uk in europe And spread the message of rock and roll How does this progress into because i'm looking at the next photo, which has a very cool picture of ringo Where he seems to have written ringo star, which could have been with paint could have been with like I mean, we've we've always seen people use like you could use tape. You know what I mean, like It's interesting. So yeah When was that invented? I don't know This one looks like a painted one on there too. Yeah. Yeah, his premiere kit. Yeah Yes, so as as you just said a lot of the american rock and roll Bled into british music in the late 1950s and bands like the Beatles well before they were the Beatles But bands in liverpool at that time took notice And particularly a drummer happens to go by the name of ringo star Saw drummers with their name on the bass drum head And while he was playing with rory storm and the hurricanes He slapped his name on his premiere kit to make himself known in the local music circuit And obviously that worked because when the Beatles were trying to record in 1962 and they were looking for a new drummer Who do they call up? They call up the guy who's got the name on his drum head in a band that they've seen before that Held it down Right. And then I mean that's exactly like kind of the heart of everything because because he had his name on his bass drum Everyone remembered who he was obviously he was good Obviously, you know, he had the right look all those boxes were checked, but you know It's like even now like how many I mean, you know, we go to see lots of bands You probably do as well too. And like how many great opening bands do you see? That you never knew who they were and you're just like wow, I didn't come to see these guys But man, that was such a great show and then Afterwards after like you know, like when we're at like waffles house, you know for breakfast Hey, what was the name of that band again? Yeah, you know and like yeah, we forget and then I'm not memorable Yeah, and you know somebody saw ringo with his name on the bass drum and he you know, checked all the boxes And you visually remember things You know More than just hearing it or more than just, you know seeing, you know, that's something kind of a couple times You're watching it and your mind is kind of like Storing that in your in your memory as you're watching and play you're you're seeing the caption on the bass drum That says ringo star ringo star. Yeah star. Yeah star. Yeah And it looks like and it called him and this this looks like more of like One of us could grab a bass drum head and a little thing of black paint. This is less. He probably did it himself Looks like a diy. Yes. Yes. The o was filled in. He didn't leave the space and the r Which is just it's funny and it's crazy Yeah, he probably did it himself He probably, you know, maybe had a buddy that was in art class in like high school Hey, can you, you know, can I give you, you know, five bucks or whatever, you know, do this or whatever But yeah, it wasn't a professional thing. But I think now you're starting to see, you know Like younger people start to copy the idols that they look up to and say, well, he's got his thing I I need to have my name on it. I love that idea. Yeah, you know, and I was a kid I was doing the same thing too Like I'd be, you know, thumbing through like modern drummer and I wanted to Set up like Neil and I wanted to have, you know, like all the symbols in in the right way Like everybody else that I was looking at or I wanted to have all the same heads as, you know, whoever I was looking up to And that was another thing that he probably just kind of DIYed and Later on, obviously, like the Beatles head became probably the most iconic Based from head in the history of rock music, but everything right This is kind of this was cool for me to kind of see too because this was kind of the The precursor to that and then we see another photo here too of an earlier Beatles head from England And that was a totally different logo. Yeah, totally not the one that everyone kind of, you know, like remembers It's uh, it was one they were leaning into the bug pun part of the Beatles and not the beat part of the Beatles And this is like the early like an early logo with with the B in the shape of a of a bug Yeah, like antenna. Yeah. Yes. And this wasn't even painted on the capskin head. This was on a Felt strip that was over top of the capskin head, but under the hoop So it was kind of like an afterthought it feels like or maybe they didn't think they'd be a lot like like around long enough to Paint on the head. Yeah, it was just like a temporary like removable thing for the I don't know the history of this one But yeah, you know, I mean it's not permanent. It did the job. Yeah, we see it and you know And it's just funny too too We will move forward but to mention that we talked about the silly kind of diy ringo star Head that he did himself that's probably worth if it's around more than all of our houses combined Yeah, we need to respect the head but Really, it was a precursor. Yeah All right, then we have the felt one to kind of move forward here Then we get to the famous the Ed Sullivan, you know, iver arbiter drum city Let's talk about that so The thing with this one is it just kind of happened by happenstance And the the story very quickly is ringo was ordering the new black diamond pearl kit or black oyster pearl that he got Black oyster pearl that is very important and he's ordering it from drum city in london and He was like, well, I need my name painted on here And it the logo was literally just a quick sketch that then got painted onto the head and it was like, all right Just do this and it was like no thought put into it Could you imagine how much money you would charge a design team now to have a logo done for a band like the Beatles? It's like the like you swooned through something. It's like yeah, like it's iconic. Yeah, right Yeah, but that they charged I think the what is the Nike swoosh they paid her like 50 bucks or something like that Yeah, it's like five pounds for right to do this Beatles logo five British pounds back then and that made its premiere on the Ed Sullivan show And even the numbers i'm about to read to you from the people that watch that today are still staggering 73 million people watched the show at one time in 1964 And there were 700 people in the studio Which is still a lot of people in a live studio nowadays. That's like that's a small small club large large club small theater Yeah, yeah, but 50,000 requests for seats to see them at the show for 700 seats 50,000 Right, and that was because they were already had such a big following in England. Obviously, you know Um ed got kind of like wind of them when he was overseas and he saw firsthand All like again like all the like rabid fans and that they had a following And you know, he said I have to get these guys on the show. These these guys are massive Over here. They're gonna come to America. They're gonna be big. We need to have them on the show But he saw firsthand that they had a name recognition That you know, I think you know Obviously all the dj stuff that we talked about but that brand recognition they also had at the time in England They weren't here really yet But they had a very strong brand presence over there and word was already getting out. They already had the the single leaked early Right, and they were like chopping at the bit to see the band exactly by that point 45.3 of households with the tv watched the show at the same time And 60 of all american televisions tuned into the show 60 60 of all TVs in the united states in 1964 Wow, like that that kind of exposure is Incredible right and obviously it's it's the most spoken about thing ever how much Ringo has changed the game for drummers, but how many millions upon millions of people who play drums have been inspired From that point forward because they saw the four guys On a stage no other branding other than the name on the bass drum Right Yeah, yeah, it's not even it's not even a decal. It's a hand painted Ludwig It looks kind of like it, but and you'll you'll see in the picture. It's like close, but not Exactly how they had it when you bought one from any other store with a sticker on it And also it was you know in the the hand painted version It's a little bit larger than the decal would have been to which yeah I think definitely obviously helped them too because on the on the show, you know what I mean? They didn't really have You know close-ups all the time of that but being able to like read the Ludwig logo and and like recognize it If it was a tiny little decal, you might not have been able to watch it on a tube tv. This is right laptop You're not going to be able to see it unless it's huge on there So but it was like definitely intentional. It would be like behind someone's head behind Yes, yeah, yeah So that obviously changed everything and it's Easy to say that the floodgates opened after that because every band from the 60s after that started throwing their name on there We have a lot of pictures to show you For that, but like first one is mickey dolens from the monkeys. That's a hand painted logo on there He had a red one too, but Monkeys logo in black Keith moon had the crazy the who yellow logo Busting out of the head on there on his premiere kit Ginger had a couple different heads We have a few pictures of him on there, but ginger his silver sparkle kit with cream He had two different drum heads with different designs on it One was like the foam the cream foam top from the first album And hand painted colorful vibrant Instantly recognizable Same thing with this picture from chicago Hand painted chicago logo drummer. Danny's got his name at the bottom. Yeah slinger lens up top It's like instantly it became a thing to have your name on there in your logo and all of these Point being we're hand painted everything was done by hand back then because that's all they had that's all you could do Like the cool thing was like, you know, obviously like the Beatles, you know inspired You know countless musicians. I mean everybody even you know, even guys that wanted to play guitar wanted to play bass They made it look easy and they made it look cool, right? And you know, it was accessible But so then, you know, how many millions of kids started a band like the next day, you know You had all these high school bands that you know It was used to be this like pro thing before and it was kind of like inaccessible But then like the Beatles made it like hey, we can do this come on, you know So then every every kid with it, you know, just a little ounce of talent had a band But you weren't a real band unless you had a band name and you weren't a real band unless you had a band name Painted on the bass drum like that made you legit that that made it official And I think because of all these big guys, you know cream and who and all these guys They saw all the popular bands, you know that Had any kind of presence they all had a painted a it was like you couldn't you couldn't ring up Which at stage art in order of backdrop Yeah, that didn't exist back then the only advertising you had back then is putting your name On the bass drum and even the high school kids said we're not legit unless we have it too It was kind of your way to you know, I mean be cool. Yeah, totally. They're true. They're not cool or legit without that It's a fat cool. Yeah No But looking ahead a little bit. We've got the warlocks early grateful dead Yes, 1966 that looks more like the earlier like kind of like just Attached on sort of thing kind of like the film. I think yeah I think what what they did there is they tried to do what ringo did with the premiere kit It's it looks like a felt strip but instead of tuck tucking it under the bass drum hoop. He had it over Yeah, so it's like hanging in front of the bass drum head, but it literally is just in like warlocks Right drawn out probably took them 10 minutes to do And that's the only name you get of the band in the picture on stage there. That's it. It's like how are they? Oh, they're the warlocks, which then became the grateful dead, right? But there's also a picture of cream with ginger baker when he had Ginger on one bass drum head and baker on the other as if he couldn't get his name Talk about flex Like and that's the ultimate flex. Yeah, exactly And that's that was done a cool little tidbit about that picture is it's got drum city's logo at the bottom From london, which is when ringo did hit where he got his drum set from so most likely It's probably the same artist that did it and again, it's a unique but not perfectly correct Ludwig logo on totally really big So it was all it was all hand done back then but Creative floodgates opened it was like how can we get our name out there as big and as bold as possible? Yeah, and you'll notice other than ginger's colorful kit with the the blue and the foam cream heads Most of these logos are like one or two colors and they're big black and white In your face many cameras back then were black and white film cameras. So Yeah, it did matter if it didn't matter. So yeah, really no one saw it in color. Yeah, unless you were live, you know Yeah, no and the the risk of all this though is if you're not in, you know, the who or the grateful that or whatever is Your band may break up after six months and then your bass drum head is painted and you're like Yeah, no, I gotta buy a new bass drum head. I can't really layer more pain on there So I've had it where you know, I was in a band and we did the logo the let the name in like tape And now to this day I still have some residue Six years ago We actually ghosted on there. Yeah a little side story We had an order from a client one time who was in a band in the late 60s and had their logo painted on the drum head And I think it was for one of his birthdays a few years ago His kid found the original head With a hole in it in the closet and our design team here completely redesigned it Printed it on a brand new head and gave it to him for Christmas. And it was like it was a father's gift Yeah, it was yeah, and it was it was like a reproduction of you know, like my dad's like high school band You know that he he like on earth, you know in like the basement and we recreated the look of that brand new Yeah, and that was that was a really tall that was sweet. That came right out of his drum set and we got Wow, he was so stoked but it's it's stuff like that Yeah, where it's like you couldn't do anything else other than paint it or paint over it if your bed broke up And you know you went to college or whatever happened and you weren't cool unless you had one So you had to do it, but then you were exactly if it broke up Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a picture that we should talk about kind of quickly and we'll move along because there's still a bunch to talk about But the um Bonzo's kit with the three rings. I mean that's super iconic They probably used a stencil or something but to right circles that cleanly Which even if you look at the photo here to explain everyone knows the three, you know circles Uh, but it's kind of chipping away a little bit because it's been I was going to point that out It's chipping away in the middle. Yeah. Yeah played hard and Little fun thing is they cut out a picture of Robert Plant's face And put it on the top of the head above Ludwig. So that was a fun little thing But yeah, it's just to show that it's cool even even on John Bonham's kits It was painted and they probably did stencil it or do something like that to make the the rings Look as perfect as possible. But yeah, that's all they had it's chipping off. But that's all they had right Which is just absolutely crazy But we did a little side story about the three rings, of course They picked them out for Led Zeppelin four But uh, there's also an anecdote from plant that they passed by a billboard in Pittsburgh to see bellentine beer And the bellentine beer had the three rings on it and uh, that's a logo from like the 1800s too That was a sign on the side of a building or whatever and that was interesting, you know reminded Bonham of having, you know condensation from a beer pint glass On a coffee table three of them there because You know, wow, it is the same thing just a couple flipped just flipped around, right? Yeah And to Bonham's credit it also just looked like drums and he liked them So yeah, sometimes simple simple line of thought is the best line of thought You know what they like at the time when they did this obviously this was on Led Zeppelin four They were big enough. They didn't need the name of the band on there, right? You were there to see the band you knew who they were But that was the only decoration on stage like you said there weren't backdrops There weren't any cool set pieces there weren't like, you know any cool Like effects it was just the band with some giant stacks of amps a cool looking drum set And they just played their asses off and his bass drum artwork was the only Piece of like art that was on stage and you know, they didn't need anything more than that But that was the icon that Like represented him from the album. So that was his way to put his little fingerprint on there and You know, instead of just having a plain head, you know, and that's all it was But then you get into like You know, like the later 70s and all that kind of stuff things changed a little bit But that was still kind of one of the Holdouts of hey, I can do this just because I want you not because I need the branding You know, I mean it was just cool, you know, it transitioned mid 70s more more from The 60s era of psychedelia where everything was colorful hand-painted It kind of didn't have to look perfect to kind of transforming into bottoms Which is like, okay. I want these three rings to look clean right clean It became a graphic art sort of aspect of a logo design than just a painting or artwork So when we're getting away from the decorative Tidbit of remnant of that with designing these bass drum heads to a more perfected I want this design on my drum head, which we'll bring up with Neil and rush because he had a million of those I know you did a really thorough Set of videos with paul well. So everyone please go watch those for his gear because that that's a rabbit hole in Yeah, that could not be more detailed. Actually, it could be more detailed at the end The hand fans and I'm like Six hours Yeah, that's enough but we're getting into album artwork as the You know, it's it's each kit each tour cycle you'd have that album artwork on your head to kind of help promote So now we get into sticker development. So let's let's dive in here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and these were yeah I mean, like you said, these were kind of a new shift in technology where like luke mentioned like the You know, the old hand-painted stuff was really like labor as you couldn't get it clean Now if we're starting to do like an album cycle and we want to do something that's based on the album It's got to look exactly right where people notice and well, hey, let's use this new Technology of these like vinyl decals, you know, they were using them on like race cars, you know They actually, you know, the military developed it for like the air force planes and they would have these cut vinyl Decals like one color at a time that they would put on there that they could easily like replicate And they could do the whole fleet of you know planes at the time Instead of having one guy hand paint every single thing like the old, you know bomber planes with like the bomber girls were hand painted and over time they developed the Technology to be able to duplicate that with, you know, the air force logo and then the the like Call letters or whatever they call for the for the plane to like identify that plane You know that if it went down or if they saw it like in the sky They knew who the pilot was but they had to be able to make those like uniform across the board The vinyl decals kind of came out of that, you know, and then, you know, they started using them a little bit here And there in like the sign industry in like Like racing decals the big like um racing numbers on the door on race cars racing stripes things like that when that kind of Technology kind of started. So of course, you know musicians adopt all kinds of weird technology and say hey Can I use that for what I'm doing? Yeah, you know it all starts with the military I mean, it's like my our drum heads were like three and like it was like film It was like a mylar film to like, you know, reconnaissance and then it ends up being like a bass drum head However, many years later like are a sticker on a head. Yeah, it's kind of that. Yeah, you know So somebody put together, you know put, you know two and two together and said hey We can do some really clean artwork. That's exactly the artwork that's on the On the album on this bass drum and we can get it to look exactly right and guess what we don't have to Pay a guy to sit there and hand paint it perfectly We can actually go to a specialized sign shop that has this special machine and they can cut it out of a Like adhesive sticker mylar vinyl. Yeah, it was and it was just, you know, very similar to there's still people doing that, you know Right now. I mean my first heads were these like vinyl decals. So they're they're still doing that today But that was a shift in there where this was of this was a new technology I mean it seems weird now, but everything was hand painted and you know Luke's got a couple of cool photos with the The like rush heads that that was kind of one of the ones that kind of stuck out in our mind of These are really detailed, but they're not hand painted and they're also a cool finish where they're kind of a chrome metallic look or they had that kind of thing where now like Lighting starting to come into play here with these shows and a stage show is starting to come out It's not just, you know one band everybody flat with no lights and nothing cool Now we're starting to get into like staging with like risers and cool lights and make it look interesting And now let's do some cool stuff where we have, you know chrome on the base drum head Why not it looks like stainless steel and you know make it look interesting and that's that was kind of like a turning point for the The base drum heads because now we didn't just have to use paint and it was a flat look now It was you know, they could be sparkly. We you know, the kiss head is, you know One of those but you know, we've got a bunch of Photos of the different like kneel kits that kind of had that same One color but a little bit cooler and a little sharper and a little more detailed and a little more reflective and you know It brought it up a notch, you know Yes, it's not the same as hand painting, you know, like like a scene of like, uh, you know a boat on a river But like it is still an art to laying out a huge giant sticker Correctly as we all know everyone has a brother or sister or friend Who's the one who's good at laying spreading the sticker out and like not getting bubbles It's a one-shot deal. It really is a one-shot deal. Yeah. Yeah, and some of these rush heads you can see Are like not perfect Not perfect by any means the first one is that's actually an evans rock heavy-duty chrome head So that was a series of heads that they were doing for a while in the 70s that were built for rock. It was like the first time that drum Company manufacturer of heads symbols, etc. We're making heavier duty stuff To accommodate for rock bands. Yeah, because people were playing the hell out of stuff and breaking them all the time So these new heads by evan were chrome and it was the first chrome heads of that period So they slapped on a sticker of the black shadow of the rush logo, which looks great Not the best cutting of a porthole up top on that you there, but hey Can't be can't all be great, but no next ones after that are the evans rock blue heads with chrome mylar And you can see they're just stuck on there the word neil and the word pierre aren't necessarily perfectly straight But they're close enough But again, right and now we got the band name and the drummer name back on there too So we're getting back into that especially with like obviously neil's pull just like gene Who was a pull of himself that like I want to go just to see neil You know like the band's great too, but I'm here to see neil, you know and exactly So now we got a little of both again But yeah, like you said they had that chrome effect which was really cool because now with the new stage Lighting it kind of lit up a little bit and it gave a little bit more You know flare than the old school hand painted stuff, you know And we have I found this really crazy picture of neil on stage during the power windows era And it's a picture of his red kit And there's the decals on the front of his bass drum heads and it's crazy because this is a rush This is neil pert and It's a sticker. You can see that's a sticker on the left bass drum head. It's bubbling. Yeah, it's bubbling. Wow. And like that's so not Up to standards now anymore, but for rush back then that was the best they had is just a big sticker on the bass drum head That's all you could do Larry allen who was like his tech who was doing everything who was probably like, all right now Let's put this sticker on and you know, what do you do? I mean, you can't close it was close. But again, it's you guys are specialized in this But imagine, I mean, we will give him a break of of doing the whole kit. I mean, it's well, he gets a pass Yeah, and you know, this this also kind of points out too I mean everybody kind of went from the hand painted into into like the vinyl one color cut decal thing But then there was also a pretty quick shift into printed stickers, you know in 70s 80s there too and that's kind of what that photo is and you know To be able to print artwork on a giant sticker that then would go onto the bass drum head Was a pretty big technological advancement because again, it wasn't just a one color thing you had to nail You know, now we're getting into like the 70s and 80s where that printing technology came a little bit further ahead So now hey, we can print the album cover on the sticker that We can't print it on the bass drum head But at least we can print it on the sticker that then we put on the bass drum head But to your point too, you know There were obviously like a lot of downsides because it's a giant sticker on a head. So, you know, you're you're in these auditoriums You're under the lights, you know, you're in you're in a truck With the drums that aren't babyed probably from city to city things are gonna bubble things are gonna peel They play a show in minnesota It's hot as hell up on stage that night and then they put the drums in the truck on the way to Wisconsin Yeah, and it's yeah, it's 20 below on the way So then you're getting bubbles and the edges peel and it starts to flake off And then they put a little bit of glue or duct tape on there and you know, and they might have to like redo it Like you said, like, you know, like the drum tech might have had to like redo it two or three times In the middle of like the tour because it failed and that this looks like crap Yeah, just tape it up. It'll find the night, you know To give a to give a year to kind of where this transition starts Digital printing really wasn't perfected until about what 1991 Yeah, when that was when that was really like, okay, we can print this digital picture On to something and it looks good Everything else before that was like screen printing or Something of the sort like that right digital printing really wasn't perfected until the early 90s, which yeah at that point There was no digital before that. Yeah Yeah In terms of culture with musicians the grunge music became a big thing And that was anti-glam everything everything from the 80s with kiss Motley crew death leopard guns and roses guns and roses rush all that stuff like We're not putting our name on anything. We're going to play our music and you're going to hear us and know who we are Or duct tape or something, right? But like also a huge center cut port holes. There's a picture that we have of nirvana on snl And if we're well, if we're playing the same game as the Beatles did on at sullivan The band's name is tamma, right? Yeah, exactly Like that's that's all you get otherwise. It's a huge hole and there's a pillow in there But like there's their name isn't anywhere So there was a huge resurgence in the 90s of like We don't need to put our name on anything We're just playing our music a lot of grunge bands did that like pearl jam sound garden You didn't hear their name You didn't see their name anywhere on stage because they were just about playing the music and you knew who they were Based on how they sound, you know, yeah, yeah, and it really didn't change Until about the early 2000s When digital printing became big and then this guy jumps into the story with woodshed. So yeah And like the thing too is that I mean, I think people learned when they were having their own, you know High school bands like looking up to nirvana or whatever, you know Yeah, but we're not nirvana. We can't do that. We're not on snl So we have to we have to go back to like the Beatles thing and put our name on it or something And maybe make it look cool or whatever But you know, then you get back into like the artwork on there too And we have to have our name but make it look cool But we we're not sure already well known enough to not have our name in front of people like that I think that kind of you know, obviously that's still there But I think that also kind of died quick because a lot of Younger bands figured out that well, we yeah, we can't do that, you know I mean, it's not like it's like lame to have your your name on the bass drum head I mean nirvana was just kind of like contrarian to everything in culture where that's the extreme and their nirvana Where they changed literally the sound of music In the world, but it's just like yeah, maybe you don't do the huge I don't know glam rock thing where it's whatever it was presented the art can change But it's still it's just the it's like saying that like People don't put art on canvases anymore. That's like we're gonna put it on If that makes sense right the bass drum head is still just a canvas exactly absolutely your art on so that's still cool Yeah, yes, right and like the neat thing that you know like happened was like in the early 2000 I mean like we were still doing a lot of like one color logos because logos for bands are mostly one color You know what I mean? So we were still doing a lot of like the vinyl decals that were still in like the 70s 80s And then we got into the like printing of the album art or printing a full color band Logo on a giant sticker, but that's kind of what it was and that was I mean obviously, you know Even with my business too, you know, like which head was doing the same thing too We we kind of like hopped into that game kind of accidentally, but you know, that's a different Story too, but we kind of followed the trend of like well, okay one color cut vinyl decals You can get at a sign shop we can do that too and then well, hey We need a full color thing. So then bands were kind of doing that But the really like the digital printing Kind of didn't really change much from like, you know 80s and 90s all the way up to like 2010s really, you know, and it was like for that Yeah for that, you know for that it was kind of like the paint kind of did or like the vinyl decals It was kind of like 20 30 years of the same kind of thing and no one really challenged it too much And everybody did what everybody else did because that's how everybody always did it, you know But yeah, it just kind of changed the game a little bit. Yeah, right Let's take it from 2010 and kind of bring it on home to today You guys have done some heads for giant bands I mean, how does this maybe to start here as we as we get close to the end? I guess how does the process Work really of like how do you you know, maybe explain? I have no idea Like do you set the head and then the machine? How does it work? So the way that we do it now is completely different than how we did it, you know In the early days of the business. So we're coming up on 25 years next year Just to give you like a little quick background I you know being a drummer and teacher and you know player and stuff I was kind of in the like necessity place of I needed to put my name and the band's name on the Front of the bass drum head and you know, we use what we had at the time and like I mentioned We did the vinyl decal thing for a while that kind of turned into like a business Doing friends bands and friends of friends and that snowballed and then we did the printed stickers for a long long long time Up until what really changed for us was 2010 Ish, you know like early really 2008 910 we kind of Uh started this like new process that we you know, I I found this Printer that that was able to print onto like the surface of things Didn't print on the drum heads just printed onto stuff like signs now could be printed You know on like the board itself instead of you know, printing a giant sticker and then Adhering that sticker to the board now. There was this new printer that came out that was you know Hundreds of thousands of dollars that basically print Right on to like the surface of the board for signs and I happened to come across this thing On like youtube or something and I you know like my wheels Got to spinning after how all these hours of putting these like stickers on myself and You know having all the labor troubles of like man, this is hard man You do have to nail it man They don't last forever and yeah as a you know as like a drummer I hated that like you had to use like certain heads you couldn't you you know Things that people maybe don't really think about like I couldn't use a fiber skin or a coated head Because it didn't have the right texture that a sticker would stick to it I had to use a really smooth head and I couldn't use a head that was too thick because the sticker was thick And it would kill the sound and I had to kind of keep In my mind how I muffled the drum and how I played the drum and what the band head was because now the Resonant head was way thicker because now I added a sticker on top of it And you know there was all this extra stuff a lot of variables and a lot of compromises and always like really bugged me And then when I got into like recording drums a lot that was a bigger way bigger issue, you know, so you know Kind of cut to what we talked about about this this printer I said why don't we figure out how to do this printing right on the surface of the drum head? No one was doing that at the time Um, it was a lot of r&d. We've basically figured it out a way to print You know digital artwork instead of on the sticker And then putting that sticker on the head we could print the artwork In full color right on the surface of the drum head and that opened so many doors for us and all of our clients because We were then able to use any head that they wanted We're then able to print their logo on a fiber skin And it didn't change the sound and it didn't change the the look of the fiber skin other than to add the cool logo And you'd get a cool texture and you know, there was all these other cool things that we could then do that like Hey, we don't have to have this big sticker thing anymore and guess what it lasts pretty much forever because there's no bubble There's no peeling off later. It's not gonna you know It's not gonna crack in the trailer because it gets cold. We have people coming back from 10 years ago still using a head they got Like hey, I'm ready for a new one. It's maybe yeah, maybe not great for business looking Great for drummers, but you know, it maybe lasts a little too long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know It's like one of those things like yeah, they'll the last that like the artwork will last as long as the head lasts And how long does like a resonant kick head last like forever, right? It's not supposed to but I've had Right 15 years exactly. Yeah, and they just they just said there. It's fine. Exactly. I'm not changing. They're expensive Yeah, so basically, you know, to answer your question. We have a special printer, you know here in house that Costs more than my house And it's bigger than a minivan. It's massive And it actually prints on the surface of the head So we've got special tooling and things like that that we've kind of worked out to make sure That every head is awesome when it leaves here that it prints exactly like it looks on screen And that way we've got full control over Even little stuff like the shade of purple or like the shade of you know, a teal that looks exactly like the album cover You know, which looks exactly like what's on our screen and then we can also duplicate it when they need another one It's easy to print another one And then we also have the control of putting the Michael exactly where it's supposed to go because we're digitally laying it out You know, we've got some really great artists here in house that Design these things, you know, and we can basically design it or take the logo and kind of like lay it out And then it goes to the print department and it prints right on the surface of the head And they pull it off the printer and they cut the Michael and it could be out the door that day Which is really really cool. Wow instead of you know, the whole labor process of a sticker and all that other stuff Yeah, so it's the creative control that you have over that now is insane You used to be able to just it's if you could paint it You can paint it then it became if you can cut this on vinyl You can do it then it became if this can print digitally you can do it If you can design it on a computer you can print anything on this stuff and I your imagination is the limit Exactly. Yeah, I have a few pictures of my personal drum hat on my Fibes kit that I included in here. It's uh, It's a great picture. It's bigfoot with a little baby bigfoot and a baby beorn. It's awesome and it's It's a smooth white Aquarian hat like that's a classic clear white head. Wow All of that texturing we did digitally all of the the off-white coloring The miscolor discoloration yeah, we aging that's a brand new classic clear white aquarium head That we're able to go in and print and make it look like an old head And you can do literally anything with this stuff and as you can see in the the next few pictures We've got we've done stuff for a lot of people and literally all sorts of designs that you can think of and Why don't you list off because again? I'll show some pictures But if people are just listening list off some of the some names of the you know Feel free to name drop like what are some of the big bands and drummers you've done heads for I mean over the last 24 years. I mean, we've you know, we've had the opportunity to work with everyone from uh, kansas to uh, spring scene on the east street band, you know, and then uh, You know, boston um, parliament funkadelic. I mean, you know lots and lots of iconic. Yeah artists Alino richie elton john Which has been great, you know, and then we also work with a lot of up-and-coming artists that You know, you don't know who they are now, but then in a in a month. They're everywhere. Yeah, which is really cool For me as a musician It's it's really cool to get the call to work with boston or to work with kansas Who are already massively huge that I grew up listening to but it's equally cool to be kind of like along the ride for these artists that You know, we kind of are like along for the ride as as they grow or they they finally get a break And then we kind of grow with them and yeah, and it's fun You know and one of our favorites is bruno mars. Yeah, because Dom's known him for that's a great story over 10 years And we were doing drumheads for him and his brother eric when they were playing at the grog shop on the east side of cleveland Which is it's a hundred. It's a hundred cap. Yeah, it's a little tiny hundred cap club. You know, they Bruno basically had his first Single like he just had his first solo hit after having a feature hit With another artist. So he was just kind of breaking out and it was their first like real tour It was, you know, five guys and two crew guys and like their first bus and everything and they I mean again They're playing at like a hundred cap little dive club, you know and cleveland and everywhere that they could play and obviously they put on you know Phenomenals show and things really snowballed from there, but Um We did ahead for that, you know for that tour and uh, it was really cool to be able to work with, you know Bruno and his team who were very hands-on because they didn't really have anybody at the time But now to still work with them all these years later, you know About five years later. They were like on the Super Bowl halftime show, right? So things Things worked out really well. Yeah, but you know and then to do like all the silk sonic stuff too and all that stuff too And that was that you know, those were really cool projects because those artists are really hands-on about their aesthetic and you know Going back to what like Luke said, you know the the whole silk sonic kind of vibe that Bruno and like anderson have this, you know Like throwback kind of vintage like retro vibe He's extremely careful about That aesthetic being consistent and they said look we're gonna try to use all vintage looking gear on stage We're gonna do like the vintage costumes and outfits on stage all the set pieces are gonna be vintage We do not want this head to look brand new. We want it to look like it was around in 1975 or whatever And we want it to look as aged as you can and we kind of aged it like we did like Luke So it looked really old and beat up like it was just unearthed in a closet like the father's day gift that we You know, I was like one of those things and We're able to do that because we've got the designers in house and we've got the technology to make it look Legit as possible, but we're using the new technology and we're able to use The heads that the drummer specs and he wants to use for sound and we can get the look that they want and You know, so it's it is cool to be able to work with those guys that like really care about the aesthetic, you know Yeah, well, they're both so that they are and that's exactly and they and they get it Um, we do a lot of Nashville right now too. We do quite a lot of like Nashville tours and stuff like now too So we've done, you know, Taylor Swift and Luke Bryan Jason Eldine was actually one of our first major clients when we started out. He was rich redman He was a he's a great friend of mine. He was, you know, basically kind of the first real client that we had other than Like, you know, my bands and friends and friends and like local bands around the country He was kind of the first big touring artist down in Nashville that gave us a shot Um, you know, just for context I met him on mice Yeah, yes, rich was the first person rich redman was the first person who I you know I think I did meet him once or twice at Pasek But he was the first person to like share a video I put up on instagram to his account when I had like 300 followers now I have 75,000 and uh, it's just like I mean, honestly, I think that got me like the first thousand followers was like rich redman Some old vintage drum video I put up. So so he's man. He's awesome. I owe, you know, thank you to that Thanks to rich very similar with us too. You know, like he was the guy that said, look, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you guys a shot, but I'm gonna give you feedback if it sucks I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna help you get it right and then, you know When we did end up like nailing it the second or third or fourth time I don't know, you know, then he was able to say hey, I'm gonna tell all my friends And that's when things kind of snowballed for us and now we do, you know Probably 75 of our businesses down in uh in Nashville, you know, believe it or not So we do all the major tours and stuff now and it's it's super super fun You know, I get to go to lots of shows. I get to meet a lot of drummers I get to see these kits up close I get to you know be drum geek with those guys too We got a we got a couple pictures to show you that that bring it right back to that because uh Like we he was just at blossom over the weekend seeing Dierks Bentley And like just last Friday wrapped up the drumhead form in a premium finish, which is really cool And we're we're able to go through and Make really cool combinations of techniques that were only available back, you know, 50 years ago now So there's this picture of the orange sparkle Dierks Bentley kit the gravel and gold head And the drum set is orange glass glitter And they wanted the gravel and gold print But they wanted orange sparkle on the drumhead pinstripe So we were able to combine a direct print head with die cut orange glitter vinyl together to make a 3d Sparkle head that matches the finish of the drink right now. You just need some lead paint on it The whole thing I need nitrocellulose lacquer it and then smoke my cigarette while i'm sitting behind it And then just explode Exactly But it's a fun challenge. Yeah, I mean, you know, like the guys here love Or hate. I don't know. Maybe they just tell me they love it But you know, we say hey We have a cool a cool project guess what we have to do and they're like you have to do what we have to Oh, we have to we have to match what you know, but we figure out how to get it out Just right because we're we kind of see that as we're part of one We're like one piece of the puzzle on a on a bigger stage a bigger piece of the puzzle and that stage is one piece of a Way bigger album album tour puzzle You know and that actually kind of led us into doing all the other cool stuff that we've kind of branched out into you too, you know backdrops and all these other things that we do for the stage and backstage but All that kind of started like with the bass drum head and all kind of ties in they want things to really Match and like have the same kind of look that they're using everywhere else that they're You know, yeah promoing everything, you know, so it's all cohesive. Yeah Yeah, well, I would say for people because there is design stage art passes merch festival stuff VIP meet and greet go everyone should go to woodshedstageart.com And check it out because there's we could again talk for another hour about the other stuff you guys do but Do you want to tell people? Yeah, tell people where they can find you on social media and all that good stuff and then they can see, you know Your your art your work there as well Yeah, I mean we're at we're at woodshed stage art on instagram and facebook You know find us there at us, you know, we're happy to talk in you know DMs and all that kind of stuff too about your project But yeah, we have a lot of cool stuff on there as well. Give us a ring on the phone You'll talk to one of the two of us at some point humans Yeah, cool. Well, I mean this is just so awesome I'm so glad to have had you guys on because this is such a unique topic But it's it's neat where you guys can like yes, you have incredible, you know an incredible business that does very very, you know premium Like arena Level artwork on bass drums, but you also just went through the whole history of the the entire, you know technology Which I think it's cool to know the people who are printing your stuff Know that information and our yeah complete drum nerds like all of us who are, you know into this type of thing So, um, this is awesome. Do you guys want to share your personal, you know, social media accounts and stuff or you know You don't have to but He is at woodshed stage on instagram He's got dominic tank greedy on facebook. Yeah, i'm uh lube kondrich on facebook and on instagram There's an underscore and one of them. I forget which one. I think it's the gram. Yeah, yeah close enough. Yeah Cool. Well, again, this is these types of episodes are truly like my favorite I love them all but it's nice to do six hour neil pierd episode, but it's also cool to do a nice Uh, you know hour 20 whatever it ends up being episode just about one cool unique Particular topic that I think you rarely hear about elsewhere Which I thank you guys for bringing that here. Um and before we wrap up. Thank you again to uh, david segerton jd segerton At d segerton on instagram check out his symbols. Thanks for joining patreon If you guys want to join up and get a shout out or get early episodes There's a bunch of tiers go to patreon.com slash drum history podcast and I help support the show Um, so anyway luke it was great to meet you in person dom Hopefully I can meet you someday in person and uh, you know, I'm sure I've probably seen your guys work at a concert But uh someday we'll all be in the same room and and hang and I will likely get merch from you guys Um in the near future for drum history. So everyone keep an eye out for you guys being here. Oh, yeah Thank you so much