 Welcome to a new episode of the ITU Journal webinar series, where you can find insights and forward-looking research on future and evolving technologies. The ITU Journal is an international journal providing complete coverage of all communications and networking paradigms, free of charge for both readers and authors. This publication considers yet to be published papers addressing fundamental and applied research, building bridges between disciplines, connecting theory with application, and stimulating international dialogue. Its interdisciplinary approach reflects ITU's comprehensive field of interest and explores the convergence of ICT with other disciplines. We count on your support to make this webinar an interesting experience. Please submit your questions via the Q&A channel at the bottom of your screen. All questions from the audience will be taken during the Q&A session after the talk. The meeting is being recorded and the recording will be made available on the webinar website. Closed captioning is also available for this event. You can enable this by clicking on the closed caption icon at the bottom of your screen. We hope that you will enjoy the talk and we encourage you to stay connected until the end for the wisdom corner. I will now give the floor to our master of ceremonies. Hello and welcome to the new webinar series with CDOs of the IT Journal on Future and Evolving Technologies. My name is Alessia Magniarditti from ITU, the International Telecommunication Union, the United Nations Specialized Agency for Information and Communication Technologies. It is my pleasure to open the webinar today with Mr. Nishan Bhattra, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at Nokia. After the Q&A session, as just announced by our avatar, I will moderate the wisdom corner, live life lessons. So please stay online. Mr. Bhattra agreed to a personal chat, so he will share with us some lessons learned over the years that might perhaps be useful for some of you. It is my honor now to give the floor to Mr. Seizo Onoe, Director of the ITU Telecommunication Standardization Bureau, for his welcome remarks. Onoe-san, the floor is yours. Thank you, colleagues and friends. Welcome and thank you for joining us. Academia and industry are key partners in research and development and in bringing the latest innovation to market. This special session, a special series of IT webinars with CDOs, is designed to support this collaboration, placing emphasis on 5G, 6G, and increasing network intelligence. We have welcome talks from the NTT document, Ola and Ryan's, rather than that digital one, and GSMA, and on the 10th, 1st November, we will hear from China Mobile. I very much encourage you to review our past webinars online. Recording of all ITU webinars and the workshops available on our website, creating an archive very rich and expert-oriented content. Today, Nishan Bhattra, Chief Strategy and Technology at Nokia, will share his insight on technology prospects for 60 exciting areas, such as network-assisted sensors and AI-native interface. Mr. Bhattra, thank you very much and we highly appreciate your support. These talks from CDOs are presented by the ITU journal on Future and Evolving Technologies. Our journal embodies a commitment to the public interest. It is a link in the publishing papers from world-renowned researchers at not-charges to authors and readers. Our journal welcomes research on all topics all year-round, and I have not doubt that the CTO webinar series will inspire yet more contributions. Let me take this opportunity to thank our journal's editor-in-chief, Yan F. R. Alkizis, for his expert leadership. Professor Alkizis will welcome any questions you may have about how you could get involved. The next issue of our journal said to be published in December will feature research on the metaverse and AI for accessibility. We are also currently welcoming contribution to our four special sessions on intelligent technologies for future networking and distributed systems, satellite constellation and connectivity from space. Next generation computer communications and networks, and AI and machine learning in 5G and future networks. Alongside the ITU journal, ITU college scope conferences, and ITU academia's membership are another two key avenues for academia academics to engage in ITU's work. The next edition of the ITU college scope academic conference will be held in October next year in New Delhi, India, in conjunction with the ITU's World Telecommunications Standardization Assembly, the main governance conference for ITU standardization. Our academia membership continues to grow. Our academia and industry members are reinforcing their collaboration by working together in ITU expert groups are responsible for the radio communication, sanitation and development. Contributions from our academia members bring greater strength to our work of ITU and greater impact to the research, to the mutual benefit to academia and industry. We also supplement our membership-driven work with open frameworks such as ITU focus groups and initiatives like AI for good, digital currency global initiative, and the United States for Smart Sustainable Cities Initiative. These frameworks as well as our open workshops aim to give everyone the opportunity to influence our work. I welcome you to join us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Onoesan. So now it is my pleasure to give the floor to the editor-in-chief of the ITU journal on Future and Evolving Technologies, Professor Iyana Kildi. The floor is yours for your welcome remarks. Thank you. Thank you, Alicia. I just received a call so I had to turn that off. So good morning, good afternoon, and good evening worldwide from Atlanta with love. Again, welcome you all to the fourth season of our ITU journal, Future and Evolving Technologies webinar series. In the first three seasons, we had the research leaders from the academia where we had the leaders from the industry in the third season. The objective of our journal is to bring the academic and industrial worlds together in order to establish a strong bridge between the academia and industry. Our journal ideas were incubated back in December 2019 and the inaugural issue came out in December 2020. It is an open access journal, no fees for the readers and no fees for the authors. The papers go through a review process and we try to cover all front, forefront research activities in the world, both in the academia and industry. I encourage you all to submit your papers and also if you have ideas for special issues, please do not hesitate to contact us. Let me express my sincere thanks to our speaker, Dr. Nishant Bhattra, CTO of Nokia Bell Labs for accepting our invitation and giving this webinar. Now I wish you an enjoyable and productive time with our speaker Nishant Bhattra. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Professor Akhidiz, now I would like to give the floor to our moderator, Dr. Bilal Jammuhti, who is the deputy to the director and chief of our ITU study groups, who will briefly introduce the speaker and moderate the Q&A session. Thank you. Thank you very much, Alessia. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. A pleasure to introduce our speaker, Mr. Nishant Bhattra of Nokia. He's a global leader with a broad experience in strategy and technology development and portfolio management, as well as in having significant profit and loss responsibilities across the telecom and enterprise sectors. He has been intimately involved in bringing cutting-edge products to market across industry domains and has a deep understanding of the silicon software and system requirements necessary for innovation. At Nokia, Nishant is the chief strategy and technology officer with responsibility for corporate strategy, technology architecture, and pioneering research at Nokia Bell Labs. Nokia's information technology infrastructure and digitization initiatives, centralized security domains, and Nokia's venture capital activities. His function lays the path for Nokia's future technology innovation and identifies the most promising areas in which Nokia can create no value. Prior to joining Nokia in 2021, Nishant worked at Vionier in Sweden, a worldwide leader in automotive technology, where he was executive vice president and chief technology officer. Before this, he spent 12 years at Ericsson, holding several positions most recently as head of product area networks. Nishant is based in Sunnyvale, USA and has lived and worked in Europe and Asia. Very warm welcome to you Nishant, over to you. Thank you. I think that was a very generous introduction. Well, I appreciate that. And it's a true pleasure and privilege to be here today and talking to you all. I have known Ono Esan for some time and when Ono Esan is on a mission, we all are behind him. It's the way I've learned that the industry should work. So very, very appreciative of being invited here. And I'm going to share some slides and I'm told that I have 20 minutes. I'll walk through them and then we can get to Q&A. I think they are visible. Yes, I can see them. If you can just put that yes, perfect. Okay, excellent. Thanks. What I would intend to do is we at Nokia, we actually publish what we call as a technology strategy for 2030. And of course that leads up to 60, but there's a lot of constituents that come en route. And I want to talk through how we build that technology strategy and how 6G eventually plays a very important critical part in it is what I'd like to share with the audience. And of course, it would be a mess if I don't start with something that is top of mind for every technologist in the world. And it is simply artificial intelligence. Bell Labs was one of the earliest proponents of creating intelligence artificially. And we have since then invested a lot in it. And we see that there is now an increased awareness as buzz in the industry when it comes to artificial intelligence. You see some of the stats on the screen. It's expected to increase global GDP by 7 trillion over the next 10 years. And of course, that impact of AI is not limited to one form or one industry or one vertical. It is across all the verticals across, you know, traditional neural networks, convolutional neural networks and now increasingly a natural language processing transformative or generative models. So this is the impact that we see this is actually coming from a report from Goldman Sachs research. We also then start to map as to two things. One, what is that impact going to do to the networks that we in the communications industry are responsible for? And then what is it going to benefit in terms of the network? So this slide, what it represents is the benefit artificial intelligence brings to the networks that we deploy in terms of monetization and customer attention in terms of creating more autonomy in terms of network. And I'll describe that in a little bit more detail impact in terms of sustainability and security. And we see that artificial intelligence will be ingrained and inbuilt into every network function that we will deploy going forward. We already see that by the way, we see that that a lot of the autonomous capabilities of networks are increasingly driven by pattern recognition and artificial intelligence. We see that the care and operational aspects of networks are increasingly driven by artificial intelligence through natural language interfaces. But we see that this will become pervasive. I want to just cite one example and then I'll move on. If you look at how we are planning 6G, the traditional TXRX interfaces from digital to analog, they are today rule based or feedback based. And we expect them to evolve towards artificial intelligence where the device and the networks are communicating with each other in a very different paradigm. That's just one such example. There's several such examples of AI will play a very important role in how networks will benefit from it. The second and more obvious trend that I want to bring into perspective is the cloud continuum. This whole concept of cloud sort of emanated from the traditional enterprise IT industry. And I do not represent the cloud as being a public, private or a hybrid cloud. I represent it as a cloud continuum where the cloud is now an essential processing and storage element and is fused across public public and private infrastructure. And there's one stat here again. If we just specifically look at the telco network cloud, these are the network functions that telecom industry is going to put on the cloud, whether it comes to traditional IT or it comes to network functions or it comes to more autonomous capabilities, or maybe even customer and client monetization capabilities is a massive market that's coming up. We've all heard about NFVs, increasingly moving towards cloud native containerized architectures. That's just one such aspect of cloud will play an important role. We will see that cloud then becomes seamless. We will go from public and private to hybrid. And we will go from centralized to regional to edge clouds. When we look at our tech strategy 2030, we see that this is an inevitable journey. This will be a very critical and a mandatory requirements for telecom and communication networks to evolve, simply for three reasons. The law of physics, the law of the land and the law of economics, law of physics, essentially because of latency, law of the land because of data privacy. And law of economics is just more economic to process data closer to the source. So we see that this journey will happen and we see that this cloud continuum will be an important bedrock of our networks will evolve going forward. And then we look at how connectivity or networks will be right at the center of this. I've talked about AI, I've talked about cloud. The third very important constituent that we need for 2030 digitalization to happen is connectivity. We cannot isolate AI and cloud as the only two evolving technology vectors. Connectivity has to evolve in conjunction with those. Increase use of AI, increase use of cloud from central to edge, from public to private to hybrid. Something has got to be the connectivity fabric between these. And the connectivity fabric could be very well cloud to cloud interconnect, could be cloud to device interconnect, cloud to edge cloud connect, access networks and last mile networks. All of those combined for a consumer or an enterprise to really digitalize for families and CIOs to really be digital natives. These three technology vectors will carry the most force for that future to occur. And that's why we put network at the center of it. Without this, this would not exist. And that's the very critical role that ITU plays in terms of making sure that that connectivity is shared, is ubiquitous and inclusive. And when we look at connectivity as the catalyst, we look at these parameters. I talked about the law of physics. It is increasingly becoming evident to us that as we put these networks out on critical enterprises, low latency driven by edge compute will become a necessity, not just a good to have. We're already very aware in the communications industry that we need scalability. And this has been one of the biggest actually drivers of generational shifts in the wireless access. We want to make sure that there is bandwidth scalability, we can carry more traffic, we can drop the cost per bit, we can then make it a truly ubiquitous technology. What we are not used to in this industry is interoperability and collaboration. This is what we will have to start getting used to. It will be a very thinning line between where the cloud network ends and the communication network starts. Those two will fuse. There will be subsea cables connecting clouds. There will be subsea cable connecting communication networks. There will be last mile connectivity from communication networks fusing into multi-cloud. It will almost become a sort of impossible to separate the cloud and the network by the end of this decade. And of course, all of this is possible because we need to make these networks both secure and cost efficient. And when I say secure, we are already quite clear in our vision that by 2030, we will have to make them quantum secure. That doesn't mean that they are essentially quantum driven, but they are secure for when quantum exists in terms of encryption and decryption. And finally, an industry, and we should be very, very proud of this. If you look at how over the generations, both in fixed access and wireless access and on interconnect, how we have driven cost efficiency on the back of traditionally Moore's law, but increasingly to other mechanisms, we have actually really connected the world. And this will have to continue at a very rapid speed. And this is also necessary because this is not just about cost efficiency. Cost efficiency is almost analogous to a sustainable network. The cost and energy per bit will continue to go down. And that's the catalyst that we are talking about that will have to exist for AI and cloud to be digital vectors of the future. And then we started to measure as to what kind of traffic will we see in the networks. And this is a very interesting slide because it sort of confuses and clarifies at the same time. If you see that the world is a lot more predictable for the next two years and starts to diverge after that. We put four cases and the four cases are very simple. If you look at traditional traffic in the networks, which is driven through video and higher resolution of video and more capable devices which are more capable of higher resolution of video, the middle two lines are representative of that, the pink and the green lines to be precise. We expect that by 2030, the traffic growth will continue as it has at a pace of somewhere between 22 and 25% of traffic growth. Then there are certain other vectors. And those vectors are increasingly sort of not so appreciated word called metaverse. But in a more layman language, extended reality driven applications. If we see that there is an extended reality driven application uptake, we see that the exabyte traffic per month will grow to north of 30% per month. And there's also a scenario we've painted here, which is the blue scenario, which is where we see that there could be spectrum or commercial or economic reasons for traffic not to grow. The blue line just to be clear is then a supplied constraint line, not a demand constraint line. It hasn't happened yet. But there's enough debate in the industry where there is economic sense to continue to build this networks without adequate returns. And that's why that blue line represents that conservative view. We do not see that as the base case. The base case will be closer to the green line, somewhere between 22 and 25% of traffic growth. The orange line. And if I were to now be a betting mine, man, I would say with the kind of technology advances that I have seen over the last year, both in applications and on devices, we will lie somewhere closer to the orange line. And that would mean that we would have to rethink on how we add capacity and create sustainability in these networks. And I will exemplify that shortly. But before I do that, I do want to just put on the screen here, a network architecture that we see will be vital for this level of transformation. This level of transformation, I mean, it seems simple, but it's not. As an industry in telecommunications, one of the biggest challenges we have is our legacy. We sit on tremendous amount of legacy. And it takes very high fixed capital to upgrade from that legacy. And those are some of the impediments we have in the industry. But some of them are not limited by legacy. So let me start from the top. This is a vision. Those eight green attributes are going to be necessary for us to be able to monetize these networks properly. If we don't have those eight attributes, we will not find the adequate return on invested capital that is needed for capturing the traffic somewhere between the green and orange line that I showed on the previous slide. The next purple layer, which we think is probably the most important innovation that telecommunications industry has to imbibe, and that is to create digital twins. We are softwareizing real time the entire network into a digital representation or a digital avatar. What this allows is monetization of that network beyond subscription through enterprise and consumer APIs. That digital twin is the centerpiece for us to be able to do that. And I do not think we have a choice as an industry, but to really take that on. Otherwise, we will not be able to afford 6G and future generations. That brings me to what is needed for the metaverse. Here's a slide that shows, you know, we're relatively okay in terms of progress in downlink. But if you look at the progress on uplink, a guaranteed uplink data rate on a 5G network in current 5G networks is somewhere between 4 and 6 megabits per second, but we need 20. That's a 4x improvement that is needed. Then if you look at latency, a guaranteed 95% latency in a current 5G networks is somewhere between 30 and 40 milliseconds in that dense topology. You can think of a highly urban environment. And it is up to 80 milliseconds in the larger countries, but we need 10 milliseconds. And that's why we need to have that edge cloud continuum that I talked about. We will also need technologies that actually take latency out of the layers of the telecommunications stack. Then we look at downlink, which I said we're generally okay. If you look at the traffic and you see those buckets here, traditional mobile that is green, which is essentially video traffic. Then we look at mobile extended reality traffic, which is the blue, which is growing in the outer years, mostly through augmented reality is our expectation. Then we see that there is a fixed augmented and virtual reality traffic, which is fixed over wireless. That's the green, the parrot green. And finally the fixed wireless, which is one of the fastest growing 5G applications is the orange. And if you then cumulate them, just as an example, a traditional non metaverse, non extended reality driven fixed wireless subscriber consumes 20 times the traffic of a traditional mobile subscriber. And we see that we can capture most of this traffic today until 2026 with the spectrum that we have of 100 megahertz. Then with 5G advanced and another 100 megahertz carrier, we should be able to capture most of the traffic until 2829. And we start to run short of it. And I get a question often of why and how 6G would be needed. And there's a lot of reasons we will need 6G because we need to make this network sustainable, more monetizable, but the pure traffic on downlink will create the need of more spectrum and 6G. And please, this is all averaged across global networks. Specific sites will have higher needs or lower needs. I know I'm running short of time, but this is a quick outlook on the applications that we see. I've talked about video being the main driver, moving to extended reality, then moving to three-dimensional holographic transmissions. From a pure monetization and digital twinning perspective, we already started to see that there are object-driven digital twins in the industry coming today. With 5G advanced, they will go to large-scale reconstructions. And then with 6G, we will need real-time broad-based digital twins. And finally, on the bottom layer, today we're talking about protocols. From that, we will move to locations and positioning. And then finally, we're moving to something what we call as a network with a sixth sense. This is a paradigm change. We're not just using networks for communications, but we're using it for sensing at the same time. And my last slide. While we talk about 6G, it will not be that all the 6G capabilities, sorry, will come into formation day one. We're starting to focus with 6G on the attributes on the left, essentially energy-efficient, new bands, new spectrum. We will start debating that at the World Radio Congress in Dubai next month. Very important characteristics of having real-time dependable counts for enterprise use, a confluence of terrestrial and non-terrestrial IoT, etc. But this is the start of 6G. And this will be a step up from 5G advanced. And then there is a whole new thinking around digital physical fusion that 6G will enable for collaboration for knowledge and purpose. I stop here so we can take some questions. I know I had 20 minutes. So if I hand it back to you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Nishan. That was excellent. Thank you very much for the vision and where the industry is heading. We have some questions already queued up and I encourage the participants to type their questions in the Q&A section of Zoom. We start with Thomas Reibi from the European Commission. The question is what are the major threads for achieving this future connectivity and what is expected from the regulator to avoid that? It's a very, very good question. I think if you look at how the generations of connectivity have evolved and I'm specifically talking about wireless, the largest capacity driver in the networks have been the spectrum. The fastest adopted technology, if you look at from a pure features that we as technology innovators in this industry look at, the fastest consumed feature that we ever released was spectrum or carrier aggregation. Because that one tool does more than anything else. Of course, we have evolved these networks through pure software and algorithms, through spatial multiplexing and through side splits to better transport. But what spectrum does is the oxygen. From a regulation perspective, I think more and contiguous spectrum is always good. I think also I talked about the need of collaboration between cloud and networks. That sort of infrastructure that underlying capability of collaboration does not exist today that has to get fused. And regulation will play a big part in that. And finally, such a network that is consumed by AI applications for enterprise, I think any regulation, whether it's over or under regulation, we can debate that separately. We'll have to then think about networks being a very important constituent of how AI will be distributed to the enterprises and consumers. Great. Thank you, Nishant. A couple more questions. Andresek Sherzak, I hope I didn't torture your name, is asking about IoT. And he said, if it's still considered a growth engine. You know, this is a disappointing situation with our wide area access networks. With 4G, we were all excited about, okay, we will have NB IoT and CATM and different geographies picked one or two or both. And the adoption has been fairly limited on what we saw on IoT. Then when we look at 5G, all the early adoption, and largely because the feature set is not there either, has been on consumer downlink and video. We see that with 5G advanced with the release 18, we will get more IoT features for enterprise use. But wide area access IoT adoption in this world has been fairly limited. And then we can go non 3GPP as well. And we can look at ZIGB and load events. Those are not any better in terms of adoption either. So we have to now think about in the context of IoT that IoT applications tend to be limited to local areas. And that's where we need to then think of IoT applications enabled by 5G advanced features, not for wide area, not for, you know, thousands of sites, but for private campuses for very specific applications. And we already see that where we deliver a campus network based on 5G, IoT applications, whether it's just simply a port where cranes are connected, CMNs use because of productivity gains. One more point I'll make on IoT. IoT also increases the threat surface. And that has been a concern of several enterprises. I think they're overcoming that. There's a lot of innovation by a lot of startups and mature companies in this space. And whether the device is a known device or a headless device, I think all those factors are now playing in. And we see that that challenge is being overcome. So I expect that IoT will be a successful part of our monetization engine in the second half of the decade, but mostly limited to more private campuses. With one exception, if you look at variables, those have been relatively successful. ESIM enabled smartwatches. That IoT device, still I would call it successful in terms of update. I hope I was able to answer that question comprehensively. Great. No, that's really very clear. Thank you, Nishant. Maybe one or two quick questions, and then I'll turn it back to Alessia. One question is about 6G. If it's going to widen the digital divide from developed and developing countries, or Africa, Latin America, or if it will be used to bridge the gap, what's your view? I have a very strong view on this one. I'm very glad I couldn't get the name, but I think thank you for asking this question, Gustavo. So Gustavo, I think of it like this. If we look at generations, generally the digital divide has actually shrunk. Case in point, if you look at what the price of data connection in emerging economies is today versus what is it in the western economies, it's a dramatic change, and it's affordable and the scale is there, and I give a lot of kudos to those innovative service providers that they built the business on scale, and to ourselves as an industry that was able to drive down the cost per bit based on scale. If 6G does not further reduce this digital divide, and if inclusion is not one of the top criteria while designing 6G, we would have failed as an industry, and I actually take it as a personal mission because Nokia is a big part of the ecosystem, and I have a role to play here personally. 6G has to be driven through inclusion, and you will start to see some of the early standardization, and we will make this an important criteria when we go through that. Fantastic. Thank you Nishant. Maybe I'll close with a question of mine. Since you mentioned the metaverse, and we have a very active team from Nokia in our metaverse focus group, and we thank you for that. The growth that you foresee for metaverse, do you see it from the consumer metaverse or more from the industrial metaverse, or both? So let's define metaverse. It could be simple as digital twin. It can then go to virtual reality, then it can be augmented or mixed reality. So if you look at the consumer world, it's essentially driven through virtual reality at home, connected through IEEE networks, at home, short haul, and then evolving towards on the street augmented and mixed reality is the consumer world. The enterprises actually are already on a very fast path to now basically build digital twins. We see digital twinning as a very, very important stepping stone towards augmented reality in enterprises. So I would say today, consumers, mostly in early rudimentary virtual reality, but enterprises already today in very fast adoption of digital twins, both then moving towards augmented reality. Fantastic. Thank you for that clarity. Thank you very much for presenting and for the Q&A. I will now turn it back to Alessia for the wisdom corner. Thank you so much. Thank you to the moderator. Thank you to the speaker for this very interesting presentation. So now we'll move quickly to our wisdom corner, live life lessons, which is based upon the idea to give a unique and special angle to the series of webinar, adding a personal touch. So I would like to start with my first question to Mr. Bartra. Then, okay, let me start. So which is your hard-earned life lessons that you would like to share with us today that perhaps might help somebody attending the webinar? Yeah. I think that's an interesting question and creates a little bit of a reflection on my side as well. I have, to some part in coincidence and some part by choice, ended up an industry that is extremely influential on how the world will be more sustainable in the future. And one often gets into situations where you have to then decide, is this the right thing for you? Is this the right thing for your team? Is this the right thing for your corporation? Is this the right thing for the industry? And what I have learned over my years in this fantastic industry of telecommunications, if you start thinking inside out, you always end up in the wrong place. You think was right for you and then was right for your team and then was right for your company and it was right for your industry. You end up in the wrong place. It may seem in the short term, the right answer, but always a more sustainable answer. You have to start thinking about what's right for the industry because that's what eventually will get adopted, even if you prefer it not because we are behind on the roadmap. No, what's right for the industry, eventually the engineering forces come to play. Then you have to look at what's right for your company, then what's your right for your team and then what's right for you. That's the hard-earned lesson that I've had. You have to think about outside it and then you usually end up at the right answer for yourself as well in the long journey. Wonderful. Thank you. Very interesting reflection. My second question, which field and which topics would you recommend students to study today? So maybe you could highlight some emerging technologies or trends that you believe are very promising for the future. You know, I will start from a 180 degree opposite. I think students today, my view, should first get really, really good at the fundamentals of math, economics and physics and you can choose what your favorites are because I believe if you get into something that is too focused or concerted, you lose the sight of the fundamentals. Usually, if you have a good background of solid life sciences coming from physics or economic sciences or if you're so brilliant, then math. And if you have built those fundamentals, then of course you have the world open for yourself and the world open in the sense that then okay, if you have come from one dimension or multi-dimension, you can go into quantum, you can go into AI, you can go into data modeling. The world becomes open to you, but do not rush that. In fact, if you look at any statistics, the countries that have invested in fundamental sciences usually turn out more innovative in the long run than actually those who have invested in very concerted fields for immediate job creation. Solid roots, solid knowledge, fundamentals, before others, sure, other topics. I would like to also ask you if you can tell us which is one of the most tangible contributions you believe that you have made in your career that had a direct impact on your life and maybe on others, other people's life? This is a very deep question. You know, I've been fortunate and I think we should start with that. I've been fortunate to be in the right place in the right time. I have been part of launching the first fiber network in the US. I've been part of launching the first 4G network in the world when it was launched in Scandinavia. And I've been part of launching the first 5G network in the world when it was launched. Actually, it's a debate whether the first 5G network was launched in Korea or US, but different formations of the same. I know Onoesan will have an opinion on that as well. We can intervene, Onoesan, if you want to join us, please. Yes, please do. But I've been fortunate. I think if I now think of myself, talk to my grandkids in 20 years, I say, what did I deliver to the world? And then I can say, I had small contributions in the world getting fiberized and digitized. And I feel very proud of that. Wow, wonderful. Thank you. I would like to ask you, how will you believe in, in your opinion, chat to GPT impact the future of research, but also about everyone's life? You know, if we keep chat everybody on the side and just look at these transformer models because it could be open AI models or it could be models through other companies and other open source models as well. I think they will have a very profound impact in terms of how we conduct, not what we conduct in the fields of research and innovation. Usually that contextual information that knowledge has to come from, and that's where the human in the loop is very important. Now how we conduct research in terms of peer reviews, in terms of quality analysis, in terms of data mining that you need for your research, those models are extremely useful in terms of formatting. And I think that will be the case. I think we will see that researchers, innovators, technologists, users will all get more efficient with the use of this technology. I don't see a path to human getting replaced because that contextualizing will be needed. Now certain people can predict that in 2035, 2040, intelligence will be generally available and it will be general intelligence, general artificial intelligence. It may be, but I think it starts to become a little raw in terms of prediction. I would like to predict until 2030 when things are relatively predictable that these models will make all of us more efficient. There is also some darker sides of this. The darker sides that will also make the bad actors efficient. So we need to be careful of that. There is also an aspect of certain demographics getting impacted and we need to be very mindful of those things with these kind of technologies as we have seen of technologies in the past as well. And I think that's where my view is ITU can play a very important role, not just in terms of standardization but in terms of level setting, in terms of creating consensus of how these technologies need to be built and adopted, not through regulation, but through good practices. Yeah, very well. Thank you. Curiosity also. How do you stay up to date with the latest advancement of research? Is there any specific journal resource conference or book that you would like to recommend or maybe communities where young researchers can engage with? I think in terms of content, there is no dearth of content now available to you. If there's a conference, there's usually a virtual element to that. There's publishing of that conference. It comes down to curiosity. It comes down to learning. I don't suggest any particular content because it's personal preference. I am privileged. I have access to the World's Best Research Organization Global Labs. So I'm privileged in that sense that I get to see a lot. But I think it starts with having a curiosity and the way I measure and if now, let's say, 30 to 50 percent of my job at Nokia is administrative. But if I don't have 10 to 15 percent of my time being spent at learning and growing, I would not do this job. Fair enough. Absolutely. Thank you. Last question. If I may, if there's a motto, an aphorism, a book again, a movie, even a piece of art or music that you would like, that you believe describe you and you would like to share with us before closing the webinar. I don't know how to describe myself, but going back to the last question, I live with this simple fundamental and this is where my curiosity comes from. You don't know what you don't know. So never at any point one should think that they're an absolute or they have learned anything. And it's not a question of at what job level, at what role, at what life stage there is plenty to learn and grow. Otherwise it becomes too boring and stale. And that's what I prefer. If you don't have that, you start to feel that if, I mean, not just in professional life, not just in curiosity, but also in personal life, you need growth and learning all the time. And if you don't have that, it's kind of hard. So and sometimes that learning is coming at a high cost as well, because you fail and learn. But often, that learning is around us and we just have to grab it. Thank you. I can tell you already a couple of things that I've learned in the last hours. In the last last hour, I have learned a few things just reflecting on the questions you asked me. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being so generous for sharing, adding personal experiences. I would like to invite Bilal and Onoe San and Professor Achildis as well to join us. If you have any questions or if you have any closing words, please go ahead. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. And sorry, I didn't join the discussion which is about Korea. I have some presentation material, but it's too long to talk. So next time. Few years ago, I presented that in the Brooklyn summit. So also this year, last week, I was in Brooklyn, and I mentioned today's seminar, announcing that I imparted a big name from industry. That's you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Also, thanks for me, Nishan. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Thanks. So thank you again, everybody. Thank you to our speaker. And we will see you online again on the 21st of November. We'll have China Mobile presenting. So thank you so much, everybody. Good evening. Good night. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.