 and I would say first of all I was like I was approached by Jabeen and she said hey as me now are you gonna help me moderate a panel I'm like yes I'm game to it and then I said who's on the panel right and she said we have Ruchi we have Susan and we have Tina I'm like oh wow all four ladies that's wonderful and a big hand I would say all of us are design leaders and I really want to celebrate the Jabeen has taken a wonderful initiative to get all four ladies on the panel yeah and moving forward you know I wanted to say that we've been discussing a lot of AI and we've been discussing a lot of future of design right and I wanted to probably first start with design leadership right we all are design leaders and I wanted to ask question to Tina first you know and a lot of young designers sitting in the audience what happens is we talk about a lot of good things you know when we come to conferences we talk about great ideas but when we go back on our desks you know we have limited budgets we have limited timelines and we have the same old mundane work right I wanted to understand from you Tina that you know how do you push the envelope especially with your designers and the tiny little budgets you know like limited scopes how do we do that I I would say especially when we are in a moment when we have new technology to use I mean this is really exciting but the hard thing is kind of getting out of that mundane you know out of the processes and the tools that were so used using those become very comfortable so when we do have new technology we really need to you know climb that hill our CEO the son Qadarzi has said he's compared AI to electricity so it's as transformative as electricity and electricity actually took decades to become widely adopted and so we know that we need we need to make that kind of a transformation to so a couple of things that we have done to kind of take our blinders off and increase our imagination around what we can do with the generative AI especially we've had demos so those are just very creative we had something that we called a craft bear in the spring and it was our AI craft bear and we had people demoing AI generated music AI generated art content presentations code I actually I'm an English major but I actually was able to use natural language to code something to just you know rotate it was pretty simple but it was really fun so demos is one workshops is another we've held at least three prompt design workshops to kind of build skills and then a third thing that we've done is little competitions little friendly competitions I've got one running right now where at the end of every week where I'm asking all of the designers on my team to share some experiment that you completed that week with generative AI and give us your tips what was whether it was fantastic or if it was a failure did you learn anything you know think critically about it what are your takeaways and then I give a hundred dollar spotlight to that person so and then that will become our our best practice at the end of the week that's wonderful thank you so much but I would say that doesn't stop Ruchi you and Suzanne to add in so you start having an active conversation around these new technologies you create spaces of people to experiment to fail okay to learn new things and also there is a little bit of hunch of not starting to use it oh my god will it take away what I'm doing so break away from that hunch be open and embrace in new different ways and let's experiment and see what comes out of it like there is no defined rule book yet there is no playbook yet we all forming the playbook as we go along but yeah pretty much exactly expanding on that Tina yeah I think I will just echo the themes that I heard both of you say I love Tina your emphasis on imagination and yours Ruchi on on experimentation I think that's our role as UXers is to listen the technologist develop the technologies I work for a technology company right that's what core does but it's our role on the UX side to say what are the kinds of experiences we can create and if you don't jump into that realm of imagining and experimenting and trying things out not being afraid to fail that's our role that is what we do that's the one of the big values I think that UX brings to these periods of brand-new bleeding-edge technologies as Rohan was talking about business right so you know we are often talking about experimentation and then being true to the business right and I wanted to understand you know how do you draw that fine line because you also want to take care of the ROI right you cannot be experimenting forever and you do not have the liberties at times so how do you manage that I you know it's it's a very small needle you're trying to thread on this we're lucky at core that that we our customers are very interested in the partnership they understand that this is the bleeding edge of technology and not every customer but many of them are willing to go on that journey with us you're right there are limits of course there are there's never unlimited budget or unlimited time but I think it's about the relationship between your organization and the customer and more and more clients are also we are consulting team right so more and more clients are coming to us with very complex questions they're saying hey whatever you do every day that's fine but these complex questions and also kind of new ideas how they're new perspectives so there is that space which we create and then you're right we have to balance with the usual BA you work in the ROI but the same time the clients want to stay ahead of the curve and they look at us as a consulting team to help them nudge them and show them new possibilities and of course some of them fly some of them don't fly that's the nature of design right that's how we work yeah I had a very interesting question and this question is for you Ruchi yeah I know IBM I've worked there before and we do a lot of enterprise large enterprise transformations right and we work with a lot of young designers and sometimes enterprise transformations are not that exciting because these are not B2C's and these are B2B's right and they're often stuck I would say like you know okay the client is not allowing us to exercise our creativity so how do you probably want to go forward in that area yeah so it's a it's a culture right for us to develop a culture and a space for designers to experiment you're right they are projects which are exciting and they're not so exciting right so we create those these kind of spaces where they can experiment with something new so recently we ran a hackathon for a usual design challenge but we say hey can you bring in lenses of say AI how can you use that extra scoring for that or maybe lenses of sustainability or different lenses which people can start thinking about so we start keep creating those pockets of excitement and pockets of exploration because at times projects becomes little mundane and people don't get the time to explore there there are other spaces of exploring and that kind of strikes a new idea so that's usually how we while the work goes on designers need something to always kind of chew on and experiment with and play around with so we create those spaces for them to explore and without any judgment just go and explore play with it and kind of do something and cause projects go on as usual on projects also we try to push the boundaries so also say hey go tell your clients what if we could do this again don't stop doing that often what happens is we start doing a certain kind of work and we start getting boxed in that kind of work so our general knowledge is to hey that's fine what you're doing every day but keep on asking little bit one step more ask your clients to experiment more and so that you can do more eventually with the clients too but yeah it's a mixed bag right it depends where you can but then create these spaces and we have a large studio it's 180 designers it's a huge team and there is this culture of constant learning in the smaller classes we keep on hosting in within the within the studio to keep that creative fire on for the younger designers they have so much to contribute to yeah that's a few things we would explore yeah Suzanne I was just gonna add one quick thing that we say often add into it which is fall in love with the problem not the solution and that is always a good reminder Suzanne I would just want to have a dilemma especially you know specialized with conversational UX right I bought a new car and in that I have a little AI enabled chat or I would say assistant and the day I bought that car the car the assistant could not recognize my voice yeah and I was like okay now I've shut it down completely because whatever command I say or whatever I'm trying to talk not able to understand that and I've also like you know especially I'm talking about India as a geography right I have worked with cognitive toys right where we had to shut down a project because the cognitive toy could not understand Indian dialects so I would want to understand more about that sure so this is a problem today this is this was a problem 35 years ago when some of the very first commercially available automatic speech recognition was coming into existence right the technology has advanced hugely but it's all an issue of how you train the algorithms it's it's not anything more exciting or more complex than that I had this conversation over breakfast this morning about how years ago the only voices that were reliably recognized at very high rates were white male North American voices and why was that it's because the engineering teams who were writing the algorithms were a bunch of white male North American guys that's how it happened when I started working with speech recognition technology my voice was not reliably recognized and I'm not talking about like long long ago in the past I'm talking 15 to 20 years ago one of the the major speech recognition providers it could not reliably collect yes or no responses from me and so listen it's it's there's an easy technological explanation for this but I think what technologists sometimes don't realize is that that feels from an experience point of view like bias you can understand his voice but you can't understand mine and so it's this is a real way in which we should be leaning into the new AI capabilities the ability to ingest huge amounts of data because there's no reason this should still be a problem localization should no longer be a problem this is actually something that that's kind of exciting it's new ish I've just really learned about it in detail in the past month or so there are companies out there who will now sell you a custom ASR model so if you can provide them with real audio samples from your user base in the environment in which they're going to be interacting so for your example I'd want audio from inside a car right and from my intended localized population build a custom ASR model that's going to fit your users so it's it's we're moving in the right direction I think but there's there's a lot of opportunity for us to do better I think yeah the more you train the AI to accommodate different cultures different context different languages how you how you speak certain things and I interestingly just remember that I think last month time magazine had an interesting cover it said AI by the people saw the people and there was a startup and they usually so we have all these multiple languages in India and there were people who were recording that language and the startup used to give the profit a percentage of profit back to those people in the villages etc to kind of incentivize them for contributing and training these models and reinforcing this learning with new models so this work is happening as we speak now I'm hoping that technology matures as you know we are doing this effort in the right direction I'm just a lot of examples around this work is happening yeah thanks we have a lot of young crowd and you know they all start young and the experiment and they dabble a lot in different different areas and they end up becoming generalist you know and now when they come out and they say hey now where should I could be going because there's so much happening around me there's service happening there's like future AI happening so Tina this question for you I know what do you want to say what are the new avenues these young designers can look forward to and also like you know how can I be away from becoming a generalist I'm always so impressed with the new talent that we have coming in I can't believe the things that they're able to do you know like I said I'm an English major and so I came at design into content so content design is my specialty I do hear a lot about generalists and general generalization right now but I just encourage those new designers to get to know as many designers and different time types and kinds of designers as you can we have a new designer add into it who started about a year ago and she challenged herself this is a goal she set for herself to have 100 coffee chats in a year and I think she's almost there and she has learned so much we've also got another content designer who is a really great sketcher an illustrator and she's decided to take a rotation as a visual designer so I encourage all of that I mean the more that we can learn about each other and what we do the more empathetic designers we become anyway very well else wants to add to that I so listen I'm a subspecialty of a subspecialty I'm all in favor of finding that one thing that just ignites you that is your thing that gets you up in the morning that you can still talk about after doing this same job for way more years than than you want to admit that you're still excited about but you have to have what Tina talked about as well there right it too many of us in conversation design work in in our own little bubble right where we're apart from the rest of the community and that's one of the reasons that I think it's so amazing that that I'm able to be here with you all this week for this show so I think it's important to stay connected and learn as much as you can but I also think it's great to find your one thing and pursue that vigorously because you've been in IBM we follow a t-shaped structure so you have your wings and your depth so we say hey establish your wings as much as you can because that'll help you collaborate better and those could be things like you know agile or road mapping or PMing whatever intrigues you right so have a nice horizontal nice rich horizontal wing and then yeah then pick up one thing which you absolutely love to do you want to be specialized in it people should know you and call you for it that'll give you a sense of accomplishment on a daily basis so that t-shaped template is what usually our designers usually work on and keep on refining it some people have thicker T's they pick up two verticals and they go specialized in deep and some people have multi-layered wings because they keep on going through some other interesting skills and keep on kind of adding to this their tool kit right so depends it's a very creative exercise you've gone through I'm sure but yeah that's again just to kind of what you guys think something we do follow here that's nice and this reminds me that I was working with the university design school where I said let's have a hackathon where we have even the technical guys like the engineering team come in and not just have the design team come together like you know let's have to from the engineering side to from the design side we also had a fashion schools to from the fashion side that's have all come together and just do that right so again I would say like you know design studios are the most happening places in design teams right let's a creative you have illustrations on the walls and all of that but I often see the designers are still working with designers you're not working with the tech guys what do you guys want to talk and say anything about that repeat the question once again we're in catch it I'm just saying that you know what happens is like you know designers are always working with designers oh my god that's a great amazing point right so I've been chatting about my team with this right so the studio is a place the designers work and I my always not just to hate this not not make it a bubble because that way you're not kind of collaborating with your other functional leaders and you know kind of your developers your data scientists so welcome them in and they are their things you can learn from them and their things they can learn from you so yeah yeah I know designers like their nice cozy studio and each other because they echo but the constant push is because also in projects when they go to and kind of collaborate and learn from your other peers you will be surprised to know that a lot of the developers and architects have a lot of in-depth understanding of how they break problems and that's very similar to what how we break problems there are a lot of synergies there so yeah that's something which is a is an ongoing change you're driving but yeah we do get often in a bubble at times but that is break that and start kind of connecting with these folks a little bit more I think that's important yeah I'll say briefly this is one way in which I think conversation design is a bit different than the rest of the UX design community because the technology that we're working with like the way we do design is very bound up in the technology and in fact part of our UX team are the folks who develop those natural language models right that's it's a I would call it a technical UX role right it's UX because it's about how the bot understands what the user's saying right but so we're by definition in conversation design working a lot more closely with with technologists I'd say I'm not talk about the teams but I'll talk about ourselves you know there was a time when design was most seek after designers were rock stars and I would say it was something niche you know people did not understand design but with Jenny I with a lot of different things happening it's got democratized completely right and everybody has an opinion right how do you feel you know all your thunder's gone sorry what was the last part of it how do you feel how do you feel in this entire bitch you know because we've grown up as designers right and there was a time when we were and but now I see that everybody's got an opinion on design well that's an interesting one especially with you know what happened one year ago with chat GPT and I'm in content design and so all of the all of the talk was chat GPT is gonna take the writers jobs away and so you know we in my team issued a challenge again to the entire team to start using AI because we knew that we needed to check our assumptions because it's very very easy to say and I've seen it on slides I've seen people in our company say we are going to produce twice as much content with half the writers because we've got this new tool assumption I haven't seen it done yet I'm not saying it can't be done but we don't know how we don't know what it looks like we don't know how we're training you know the models to do this in the in our voice and tone we are still really just scratching the surface so we really have to check our assumptions I know that you know we can say that it's gonna take the writers jobs and then the writers are saying it's gonna take the illustrators jobs illustrators gonna say it's taking the coders job so we just don't know yeah there's so much we still need to learn I sometimes feel like the people who are making those predictions about how AI is gonna eat all of UX have a really naive understanding of what we do as UX designers and researchers you know that they think it's about making the pictures that you put up on the website or for in my world just writing the words that the bots going to say that is like the easy and fun part of design and it completely undercuts the rigorous intensive strategic work that we do to ensure that solutions are gonna meet the needs of end users very well said actually and you know design is equal to bioframing design is equal to creating a few things but they don't understand the depth of the practice and I think personally designers have lot of work to do with these tech coming in because you know what some of your repetitive work might be offloaded right your design systems you're maintaining some files you know yeah of course why not right but now you have time and capacity to build the muscle to actually solve harder business questions harder societal questions are harder user questions right so that's the time we are giving you now to do that because all this while you were really busy with all the other things and that might just get offered and that's good right it's good for you that it happens why not right if it can take the production work away you know what we want to do is is contribute in a more strategic way which I just wanted to further ask you another question you know where you know where does the man stop and the machine starts and when does the machine stop and the man starts yeah it's a very funny interesting incident right so and this is my kind of I got familiarized with AI back in 2018-19 when it was very early in North America and I was in Canada for a project I got introduced to that and I was asked to design the future of talent of acquisition talent acquisition so how will we hire right because recruiters do a lot of manual man job can I take it away and the first chart I remember I drew that he here is the end to end recruiting journey right from you know the you're onboarding our initial discussions etc and here are things which people are absolutely brilliant at like the superpower like relationship forming like understanding people that's absolutely stays with people because it's about people but things like filling up forms filling up mundane work of course that could be given to AI so in my mind that's the relationship and again it doesn't have to be it has to be in tandem if you need something yeah it comes in but in all the people specific relationships stays with people because you're best at it and anything which takes you too much of task and that's why I think that's where this partnership will work in and the more you do that this partnerships becomes richer and richer because you're alive at AI is learning right learning about you what you need and you are able to do more what you want to do and not with the mundane forms and the paperwork you have to do in a just an example that's where it did start off and again this is an evolving point of view but that's that's what I think yeah yeah it allows people to focus on the tasks that require human judgment right that's something that you're not going to get from chat GPT it'll have an opinion but how well informed that'll be you know is is another thing it's it's just like you said let let us get rid of the tedious parts and and do the some of the really important parts of design that that underlie that presentation layer probably I would say we've heard a lot of AI today right that's been an overdose of AI and everybody's taught us how to probably use it how to exploit it how to not use it there are different different topics today right which I wanted to probably learn from you today like you know we've been two days in this conference what are the three things which you're taking back I think as a designer myself I I think one thing we absolutely is and that was a hunch I had but I got confirmed in this conference that we absolutely have to go deeper into understanding people more right people's motivations what they value what bothers them what fears they carry what beliefs they carry I think I thought we should be doing it but I think my my that hunch God kind of confirmed all these discussions I've heard so designers understanding people deeply is something is absolutely non-compromisable and that has to has in fact if you're not doing already you know I would encourage you to maybe upskill yourself in that space but get a deeper understanding about people because that will help us shape more responsible AI and shape the tools which are meaningful for people so that's one thing I a hunch which got confirmed and I'm I'm gonna go and equip the teams with that yeah I said three yeah okay I said three things three things okay three things wow that's a hard one okay so this is like a personal thing right so I know there's a lot of discussion around business value business are why and again I am a commercial designer I do it for a living right but I think there are a lot more layers to these new technologies and I think in my talk also I covered those layers societal layers cultural real behavioral layers I think we have to think about those two again I understand we all have to be accountable for ROI but at the same time we also have to shape purpose-led businesses right if it's too much of commercial then the business is I think somebody use the word soul today I don't know who use that word that is it has to be a soulful business so again I think that's another takeaway that we should as designers keep our head a little bit like sane and also focus on how can we create purpose embed purpose in these business value we're adding and it's just not about just blindly the metrics but also about the value we bring in as designers yeah that's too top of my mind yeah anybody can pitch in the same one oh oh sorry go ahead checking your assumptions I think is is one again I just think that the assumptions that we have about what it can do for our jobs or what it will do to our jobs we have to get over that because that's gonna limit us and what we what we can do use the tools become expert users of the tools and watch out for bias I was just using chat GPT this morning to come up with a list of actors that you know had a certain criteria right and it gave me all men and I didn't ask for men I did say the word actor and not actress but the word actor applies to men and women it's a gender-neutral term gave me all men the same thing had happened a while back when I was I was trying to have AI create some personas and I was looking for a financial expert so I was saying you know give me a financial expert who does this and this and this and has these sort of characteristics all men until I would say okay now give me a female one that was the only time so watch out for those biases okay three things for me it's been really validating to me to learn that so many of us in the in the wider UX community share the way that folks in my corner of the world are thinking about generative AI that that we need to check our assumptions that we need to to yes capitalize on the amazing things we can do but in a way that still centers the user another thing and this is a super personal one so I've been coming to UX conferences not just conversation ones for you know 20 something years at this point and so many times I would give my talk about conversation design to eight people in a lecture hall this size at a conference this size thank you guys for discovering that conversation design is a thing and I'm also I this is sort of an add-on but I'll make it my number three which is I've been really gratified to talk to many of you who have said yeah I've had this little conversation design project and like I'm a good designer but I don't know if I can do this and so I'll say to all of you publicly what I've said to a few of you privately which is I would far rather have a UXer doing the conversation design than anybody else but there's extra stuff you need to learn the baseline that you have as a UXer will absolutely serve you in conversation design but inform yourself about some of the specifics thanks that's wonderful I want last question and then probably I'll open it up to the floor here the last question is like you know there was a time when we were all talking about I would say bitcoins and NFTs there were conferences right on that and then you had conferences on meta I remember consultants selling meta just last year and now everybody's selling gen AI you know I want to understand is this just a fad is it just a phase it's just a new boom I know AI has always been there but suddenly it's become the new flavor right so this is a question to all of you do you think it's here to stay is it something which will be forgotten is it something which will be leveraged what are your thoughts anyone so I think right now generative AI and large language models are both overestimated and underestimated it's underestimated when people are like it's just dumb machine it's not like a person well no it can do some truly marvelous things right it has the capability to to to ingest such an enormous amount of data and analyze it in ways that are kind of beyond what we can do as human beings so that's really amazing but we also overestimate it when we're like it's going to become sentient and it's going to to kill us all right um the the last slide that I didn't talk about in my keynote is this big philosophical debate right now that is going on in the conversational AI world which is should we be building artificial humans is that our goal to make your AI agent be as close as possible to a person as you can or should we be building good tools or people to make use of using conversation I I will admit I'm very firmly in the latter camp there there's actually a book in in from an earlier phase of conversation design that whose title is it's better to be a good machine than a bad person that's a nice one that was great I don't know what I could add to that but you had said it in your talk that we have had many forms of AI for actually quite a long time we've been using facial recognition on our phones and we've had text completion for our text messages and so we've been using a lot of these tools for a long time and it's true that generative AI has kind of you know taken over the headlines over the last year but it is just a tool it's a brand new tool for us just like you know these photographers have got a tool and what makes them special at using that tool is they are very skilled practitioners of the tool that they have and we just need to become skilled practice practitioners of this new tool also the question I was I was thinking about because still about six seven weeks back I had this hunch of my god this might be other fad they get let it pass but when I was preparing for the talk here I had a lot of research a lot of reading up on papers and watch the potential or what we could do with it and I have I think it's my personal thing it's not a fad that's one I think AI if used correctly if used responsibly if used in the right way which is adds value I think it has lots to contribute to our lives in different meaningful ways I'm not a very tool obsessed person honestly so I think the tools are a means to an end right you learn them it is like we have learned I'm from the era of Adobe Photoshop 5.5 and I have learned numerous amount of tools so I think it's yet another thing right so that doesn't matter as far as we are leveraging it for the right things we are building so in my mind AI is here to stay and that's I because all the rigor I'm seeing and so much of depth of thinking isn't your talk was really enlightening I never knew about all those concepts again what a depth it goes to and I think it's here to stay but it's all about designers to start learning about that depth appreciate that and work along with it I think that's where I think the focus would be yeah that's yeah so I think it's wonderful and I'm sure like a lot of people in the audience would have questions are you guys ready with your questions yeah we have a hand there can we pass the mic are you running out of mics then I can probably share this. Hello I'm Anisha and my question is how do you navigate through using AI tools when you're aware of all the moral and ethical ethical dilemmas around it that are yet to be resolved and as leaders of such big organizations is your team taking any steps on working around these dilemmas and are you solving some of these things within your team. So that was a little bit echoey but was the question about ethics and how we ensure that we are ethical dilemmas I think that's what I heard right yeah ethical dilemmas right so I think it's like anything you do like ethical right so there's a value system we all stand by right if you're using an AI tool for anything you're doing it's important to source it and say hey this is what AI did this is what I did it's very important to build that clarity and yeah like it's don't take the full credit right to just say hey this is where I come in I know the questions will raise and there was a question today somewhere in the talk that you know teams they undermine you for using AI tools but if they are then they are not ahead of time so you have to be using it for the right things and then of course give credit to whatever you've used so you're fair I think that's what my stance be that the value doesn't change like anything else you kind of you use your royalties your for your royalty free photos etc the values don't change I don't think that values change with AI as well yeah I would agree with that all of the same things that we've been that we've been teaching our designers to emphasize about inclusivity and ethics and being aware of bias we just have to keep talking about them so that we do recognize it when we see it and something about the way you you described that Ruchi reminded me do you guys remember this Edward Tufty paper about how PowerPoint corrupts thinking we have to be careful that we don't let this new tool corrupt our thinking right we as UXers have to maintain our same value structure in spite of having this new shiny tool that we get to play with right we still need to do responsible design hey hi my name is Manas I'm a product designer at cash fee payments there was just one thought going in my head something very interesting regarding the panel the discussion that we were having so largely if we see most of the AI bots right now are more of responders like we have we inspire some sort of a thought in my in our head like let's say create a pink elephant artwork and it will generate it for you will AI in the future inspire us to take an action so for instance one fine day out of the blue AI says hey Manas how about we create a pink elephant artwork today I have already ordered acrylic paints for you coming in seven minutes just a thought I'm really curious to know where is the boundary that we can draw just just want to leave you with that I well okay so so as I break down that the question that you have I'm hearing it as right now we as the human beings are taking the initiative in these conversations with AI and we're saying do this thing for me right will there come a day where the AI comes to us and suggests hey maybe you should try this I mean I think we some guardrails that are kind of there right now would have to be removed I'm not sure we want to remove those guardrails I mean you might want to in very specific cases right if you were if you were building an AI tool to inspire creativity right or to help in brainstorming or or some you know limited use case like that perhaps you'd want to remove the guardrails there but I don't know whether I would want my AI assistant tapping me on the shoulder telling me what to do on its own initiative you know I'm not talking about like a notification right I'm talking about it just decides hey today we're gonna talk about pink elephants I don't know I would say that I think that these assistants could get better at teaching the users how to use them because it right now a lot of times you're sort it's sort of like you're faced with that blank you know chat that blank chat box and it seems like a lot of users don't really know the right questions to ask or how to phrase them or what can you really do so I think the the bots themselves need to do more training I think what you said right manners for me it'll be creepy if they are dust that and I'm hoping they're not building it somewhere I'm hoping we're not doing that I'm hoping I will always have agency and control on how much I want AI in my life if I'm okay with AI tapping my shoulder and saying hey why did you do this yeah yeah it's a personal choice right but if I'm not okay with it and say hey I will I activate this AI when I need to activate it that's my choice so I hope these systems don't take away my choice of deciding my own boundaries and it can vary person from person I'm I'm able to take a switch on off in some way in that way I hope that's the case but I don't know I'm the work is happening since it's progressing as we speak but yeah just to your question you know a thought came in my mind was like how much time are you ready to spend with AI right the more time you'll spend probably you'll get friendly with you and then start tapping on your shoulder right it's completely up to you like how much are you going to be training it and how much are you allowing it to come into your sphere yeah there was one more question yeah so hello so yeah so we learned a lot of information today about AI and a lot of things a lot of methods a lot of jargons as well so I mean most of the people in the panel I feel like are from companies where they're large-scale teams right so what about small-scale teams where you know something like stakeholder collaboration is easy where there's a lot of network for communication but there's also a lot of methodologies and most of it falls on the senior designers and they're always lost in this process thought of process and what to do and it often takes up the time right so how can AI help those small-scale teams in particular is what my question is. I can start right so I think some of the use cases which my team is experimenting on and that's a very consulting point of view right so you know we we go and meet clients and there's a lot of annual reports we read through a lot of data we read through to understand how their business is doing right and AI has pretty decent today a decent capability of summarizing and ask a PDF or question a PDF I can do that right I can share the public document within I say hey I am trying to look for these things can you quickly summarize I'm heading for a meeting or you have a small team you don't have capacity to do extensive secondary research of five people just sits reading papers you don't have that capacity I think that's one use case we've been experimenting with because we things have to move faster you need quickly want to ask the very specific questions and then you get going with that that's one use case secondly I think also in the research process very early when you have a lot of data transcribing kind of just quickly get them in neat format so I can start my synthesis that's another use case we've been looking at tools like dovetail etc which has these use cases again not yet formalized but some of those use cases where I can make a little bit things faster without losing the depth in the rigor of the process I think that's a starting point for us I'm sure you like to add more but yeah so there is do we have time for one more yeah please go ahead so traditionally users follow a call-to-action model right the users mental model is seeing number of clicks number of actions but for AI somehow we have moved to conversations why the mental model has changed and how we can adapt with it frame the question so you are saying that before AI came right we were like lesser number of clicks etc now we're okay to have long conversations that interaction models have changing a little bit is that what the question is anybody wants to attempt it's about web 2.0 and web 3.0 now right so where what you're talking about was web 2.0 right where the users were taking action right and now web 3.0 is where you know you're getting an action and you're getting an interaction right so that's the shift that's happening in technology I mean even the graphical user interface was not really a mental model that was something that we had to learn we had to learn that moving my mouse is going to move the cursor on the screen and clicking buttons I mean that is all learned and so I remember thinking that you know when we were first experimenting with chatbots and conversational interfaces I thought this is incredible this is going to blow the UI away because what could be more natural than conversation this is something that we all know how to do but talking to our software as it turns out is not that easy so we still have to learn how to do that yeah that's a wrap I would say but before we leave I wanted this question for Tina answers and both how do you feel spending time with UX India and what are your takebacks from India I'll just say the last time that I was here was three years ago in Bangalore right before the COVID shutdown and we've been building our design team in the Bangalore office you know over the past few years and I'm just blown away at the design talent out here it's really impressive thank you and and similarly I will I will say that I've been amazed at the really hard questions you guys have been asking me I think that's one of the big benefits of getting outside of my little bubble I've been so impressed with with the depth of your thoughts around how conversation changes things and and and I've also felt extremely welcome so I'll thank you all for that