 Our next caller is Bryce from Ohio. Hey, what's up, Bryce? How can we help you? Hey, guys. First of all, I love the podcast. You guys are definitely some of my favorite people to listen to. And your information is just gold. So thank you guys for just putting that out there. Cool. So some white question revolves around hormones. So I won a WIM a couple of months ago, just took a testosterone test. And it came back and my levels were extremely low. I believe they were like 200 nanograms per deciliter or something like that. And I'm a young guy, I'm 23. So obviously that's below the normal range for any male, let alone being so young. So I've kind of tried to implement some things myself. But I guess what should my training, nutrition and really lifestyle look like in general to try and get those testosterone levels up? What should those things look like in the process of doing that? Okay. Well, first let's talk about what you did. You said you did some stuff already to try to work on it. Right. So I was very lean when I, I've been very lean for about probably, you know, four years, probably, you know, sub, sub 8% body fat. So I think that definitely had an impact on my levels. And some of the things that I did were really just kind of gain some body fat, you know, make my body feel more safe. And so those things can things can start to auto regulate. I kind of reduced my exercise regimen a little bit. Increase my calories, like I said, gain a little bit of weight. Those have been the two major things that I've done. Okay. And have you been lifting weights? Yeah. What's the exercise training? What's your programming look like? What did it look like before? And what does it look like now? So, so before it kind of looked like a split routine, like a push pull legs. So it needs body part, maybe twice a week or so. And now it kind of looks something similar to I guess maps, anabolic style where you're really only doing the compound lifts a few days a week. So. Okay. Now have you gotten retested? Have you seen if your testosterone levels have changed at all? They have. They've gone up a little bit. But I guess it's kind of a slow recovery. They tell me because, you know, I put my body in that state for such a long time. So it sounds like it went up maybe a hundred points in the last. Yeah. I do that. I think it sounds like you're doing really good. Think about that. That's a 50% increase if you were at 200. So you're definitely on the right track. I mean, I would have suggested maps, anabolic programming for sure, increasing calories like you said, probably, but you were right on with that, probably addressing sleep, making sure that I don't know what stress looks like in your life, maybe looking at things like that. But if you've already jumped a hundred points already, that's pretty damn good. Yeah. I would look at vitamin D levels if you haven't already. And you could try eating more dietary cholesterol in some cases that raises testosterone. But here's the deal with the number that you gave. You said 200, your testosterone came back measuring at 200. That's pretty low. That's lower than I would say. I think it's like half of men in their 70s will have testosterone higher than that. And if you doubled it, let's say you doubled your testosterone, you would be at 400, which would still be considered low for your age. So the reason why I'm saying this is for the following. Low testosterone in that range under 300 has health risks associated with it. So your health risks increase for dementia, for cancer, heart disease, and other types of issues. So if you're trying to raise it and you're doing everything you can, and let's say you double your testosterone, you're still relatively low. And if you've been doing this for about six months, I would work with a hormone specialist. And there's a couple of things you could do. The first thing that they might do is try to put you on a regimen that would raise your natural testosterone, kind of kickstart it. And it usually looks like HCG or HCG plus something called Clomid, which is a selective estrogen receptor modulator. Have you talked to your doctor about any of those options? Yeah, so treatment was something that I thought initially might be something that I would need to pursue, but my testosterone, the hormone specialist would not let me get on any sort of treatment since I'm under the age of 25. Okay, and do they have a time frame? Do they say, okay, try this for X amount of time before we'll start to pursue? Because I understand why. If you go on, well, the HCG and Clomid, that's something you would come off, but if you did go on testosterone, you're going to be on it forever. It's very rare that you go on and come back off. Have you been natural this whole time, if you don't mind me asking? Yes, yeah, 100%. Okay, and do they have a time frame? Do they say, okay, let's give this another six months? No, no, there is no sort of time frame. They essentially just said that, you know, pay more attention to your diet. See, this sounds like a general practitioner. Is that what it is? Is it just your regular doctor or did you go see an actual hormone therapist? Because if you saw a hormone therapist, I can't imagine them telling you that they wouldn't. It was a testosterone replacement therapist. So here's the deal. Okay, so here are the classic things that can raise testosterone in men, and they're quite effective, right? You can lift weights, maps, anabolic style routine would be perfect for that. You make sure you get good sleep, you manage your stress, make sure that your diet is adequate in both fats, proteins, and carbohydrates. Make sure that you're not deficient in any nutrients like zinc or vitamin D, which can lower testosterone levels. But then there's this, okay? If you do all that and your testosterone raises, that I don't know, 350 or 400, and you also feel the effects of low testosterone, then I would seek another hormone doctor because the low testosterone really hammers your quality of life. It really does, especially at your age. It'll reduce your confidence, your drive. It'll of course lower your libido. And you have health risks that are associated with low testosterone, which a lot of men don't know. They just think low testosterone means they feel crummy, but you actually increase your risk of long-term disease. And this is becoming much more prevalent these days. You're seeing more and more young men with low testosterone. So I would seek out another doctor. I would definitely continue down your path and see what happens and see if you can get it up to at least the 5 to 600. That's crazy to me that they're telling him that. It's because of his age. This is very similar position that I was at. So I was all the way down in the 200s, worked my ass off for a couple of years of trying to do it naturally to bring it back up. The highest I got it was low, 404, was the highest that I got it up to. And I still felt terrible. I felt better than when I felt at 200, which I'm sure you're probably experiencing, Bryce, you probably felt a little bit better right now than what you did six months ago, but still didn't feel great. And eventually that's what I did was I went back on. I mean, I'm on month two right now of my replacement therapy and feel amazing just because they've got my levels back up to normal. So I'm now hovering in that, I probably peak around 900 to 1,000 and then at the end of the week I come back down to the 400 range, but just that alone has made a huge difference in my mood, my sleep, my libido, like my energy and strength and consistency. So obviously I'm older, so they were probably less reluctant to probably give it to someone like me, but that's really strange to me that they're not doing that for him that low. Now keep in mind, Bryce, none of us are doctors, okay? So we're just speaking from experience of working with clients and having doctors as clients and friends, but I would recommend you look for another opinion. And I've had several clients who've had low testosterone, who were young men, both of which who were trying to also conceive, and the doctor did put them on HCG and it was relatively successful. I had one guy trained. He got his testosterone levels up to in the high 500s and he was down, I believe he was lower than 200 when he first started. So see if some of these treatments are an option for you. It's not permanent, right? The HCG protocol is not a permanent protocol. If you go on TRT though, you're going to have to make peace with the fact that you're probably going to stay on it for the rest of your life. Yeah, I'm still tripping that it was so low and so young. Were you competing? What was the motivation behind being so lean for that long? Essentially. So once I got to college, just about five years ago when it all started. So when I got to college, all my roommates loved to lift and everything and around that time when I started lifting, I also found out about like clean eating and all that stuff. So I dropped my calories dramatically and chicken breasts and egg whites, you know. And I thought that was healthy, right? And I did that until I thought that was the way to results, right? To get more muscle. So I continued on that path until essentially I had like barely any energy, any muscle left on my body. And I felt definitely all the effects, you know, of low testosterone, but in the moment I didn't know I was oblivious to them. So. Bryce, have you gotten nutrients like zinc and vitamin D tested to see if you're within range? I have not got those tested. I do take multivitamin with it's got some zinc in it and I also take vitamin D but I've never tested those numbers. Go get your nutrients tested. That makes a huge difference. That can make a very, very big difference. And then do you use marijuana or cannabis? Are you okay talking about that? No, I don't. In some men, it's been speculated to lower testosterone as well, but I go get a nutrient test. Make sure that you're not deficient in especially key nutrients like zinc and vitamin D but others can actually affect testosterone as well. Continue doing what you're doing with your training and your diet and your sleep and then I would look for another hormone specialist to come up with a plan, you know, to say, okay, look, I'm going to try these things. At what point do I start to go to try to get my testosterone levels up within range because like I said, it's a dramatic reduction in quality of life and it also comes along with health complications or health risks. So it's not just about feeling crappy. It can actually have some long-term health consequences. Okay. I don't know if you guys maybe this isn't the right question to ask you guys. Have you ever talked with people or experienced clients that you've had that have been in this situation and how long it may take to naturally get yourself out of that state? Yeah. With testosterone levels raising them naturally in my experience a great outcome is a 50% increase. The problem is if your number is at 200 a 50% increase brings you to 300 which is barely at the lowest end of the normal range. So I have had one guy who had testosterone but he also had a nutrient deficiency and nutrient deficiencies can cause some pretty interesting things to happen. So again we're not specialists in this field. We just have experience working with people who've done this. I would seek another professional and see if you can have some kind of a protocol. It sounds like they kind of disregarded you in my opinion. Okay. Awesome. All right. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. No problem. Yeah. This is an epidemic. Low testosterone. It's crazy man. It is. It's really crazy. And again people don't in general practice was crazy that he said he went to a hormone specialist. Usually general practitioners if you're in the range which is 300 to 1100 usually. So if you got 300 even 290. So do they think that because he's so young it's just going to naturally spike back on its own? I think they're afraid of having him do something that's permanent. If you went on testosterone. Yeah. That's it. He ain't going off because now he's going to whatever little he makes it's gone. Yeah. And he could impact his fertility. That's probably the other thing because if he wants to have kids later on then he would have to go on a fertility protocol on top of it which would include like what I said earlier which was HCG. I imagine too when he went in to see his doctor if he doesn't have any other markers that are showing that the effects of having low test are affecting that in his body they're going to take the chance and just say let's see what happens. But really unfortunate that there's no plan you know I didn't mention to him but you know there you just recently talked to the guys over at Juve and they've actually started to show some case studies of people that are using that to raise testosterone levels a little bit more expensive to to try but you know there's some we had a friend Mike I remember he did that exactly that was all he was trying to do was can I use the Juve light to raise my testosterone. He was in the 400 range but he took it all the way up to 750. Yeah the the I'll be trying everything about it. Yeah well the way the red light therapy works is it actually causes the cells mitochondria to produce more ATP so they start to become more effective so when you shine the light no joke this is no joke on your testicles as a man it'll make the the I think the lighting cells is where they called in the testicles produce more testosterone and so they've shown this in a couple loose studies and some anecdote I've had a few people who've measured their testosterone and noticed results from that but yeah it's disheartening to hear that it sounds like the doctor was kind of like you know dismissive exactly