 The U.S. Naval War College is a Navy's home of thought. Established in 1884, NWC has become the center of naval seapower, both strategically and intellectually. The following issues in national security lecture is specifically designed to offer scholarly lectures to all participants. We hope you enjoy this upcoming discussion and future lectures. Good afternoon and welcome to our sixth INS lecture for this academic year. I'm John Jackson, and I will serve as host for today's event. The series was originally conceived as a way to share a portion of the Naval War College's academic experience with the spouses and significant others of our student body. Over the past years, it has been restructured to include participation by the entire Naval War College extended family to include members of the Naval War College Foundation, international sponsors, civilian employees, and colleagues throughout Naval Station, Newport, and indeed around the country. I'd now like to offer the podium to Rear Admiral Chatfield for her welcoming remarks. Admiral? Hi, good afternoon. I want to thank all of you who are here in Spruin's Auditorium with us today, and I know that as I walked past the booth, there were more than 85 already online and more logging on as the moments passed. And so I want to also welcome our virtual audience. Thank you for taking time out of your day to participate in our Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. I went to the White House to read the President's proclamation about Remembrance Day, and it's so important for us to remember this moment in history, those that experienced it firsthand, those who gave everything in defense of our country. And I'm also very pleased to have already attended one lecture today on relationships that helped to characterize the response to Pearl Harbor between flag officers who were decision makers during that time. And I'm really delighted to be here this evening to participate in this lecture and looking forward to it greatly. So thank you again for being here and participating especially today, and I look forward to welcoming you throughout this lecture series. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Looking ahead, we'll pause this series during the holiday season and we'll reconvene after the winter break. Our next lecture will be offered on Tuesday 11 January 2022. Professor Nick Sarantakis will speak about Olympics and the International Affairs, which is a very timely subject leading up to the opening of the Winter Olympics in Beijing on 4 February 2022. So we'll look forward to seeing you all back after the first of the year. Okay, on to the main event. During the presentation it follows, please feel free to ask questions at the end or use the chat feature on Zoom if you want to ask questions in the virtual arena. So let's proceed. Remember Pearl Harbor, that was the rallying cry for the American people during the Second World War. It has been 80 years since the United States was attacked on December 7, 1941, in the memorable words of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, a date that will live in infamy. The American people, government and armed forces suddenly found themselves caught up in a desperate global struggle from which there could be no turning back. The ordeal of waging a world war would transform the United States into a global superpower. From that day to the present, American power and purpose has played a leading role in world politics. I'm looking forward to hearing Professor Maurer examine the grand strategy of President Roosevelt as he prepared America for the coming trial of strength. He will also follow the steps taken by the United States that led to war on that fateful day 80 years ago. Professor John H. Maurer is the Alfred Thiermahann Professor of Seapower and Grand Strategy and served as the Chair of the Strategy and Policy Department at the Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island. He is indeed one of the college's most respected educators. So Dr. Maurer, over to you, sir. Thank you, John, Admiral, guests. I'm going to speak about Franklin D. Roosevelt and the high politics and strategy of the United States and the events that led up to Pearl Harbor. In looking back 80 years, it's important to look at the international strategic environment to put these events in the context of the time. And so I want to look at Roosevelt over a long period of time from before the First World War down to the Second World War. First, I want to look at the apprenticeship of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Here he is in 1913, 31 years old. He is the Assistant Secretary of the Navy in the Woodrow Wilson administration. Assistant Secretary was the second highest civilian leader in the Navy Department. When he became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, one of his relatives, former President Theodore Roosevelt, wrote to him, Theodore Roosevelt had also been Assistant Secretary of the Navy at the time of the Spanish-American War. Well, Roosevelt wrote to Franklin that he hoped that he enjoyed himself to the full as Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Again, that you will do capital work. Capital is an adjective. We don't use that language anymore. It's a shame. I like that. Capital idea. Well, Franklin D. Roosevelt did enjoy his work. He threw himself into the test of being Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Here you see him at the keel laying of the battleship Arizona at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in New York. There he is with Senator from New York State. And here's the Arizona getting ready to be launched down the way into the East River and commissioned and steaming out the sea down the East River. Well, war with Japan was a destined. Already in 1967 and in 1913, there had been war scares, where it was thought that Japan and the United States might go to war with each other. But on both occasions, war was averted. Nonetheless, people thought that these two countries, these two Pacific great powers were destined to fight each other. Well, Franklin D. Roosevelt didn't think so. In the 1920s, after he left the Wilson administration, he would write about Japanese-American relations. In 1921, Roosevelt was afflicted with polio. And here you see him in the mid-1920s swimming at Warm Springs, Georgia, the resort that he went to to get exercise, to revive his spirits, to build up his strength from the ravages of polio. One of the things he did while coming back fighting against polio was to write articles. And one of them was in the journal Asia. And as you can see from the title, the title says, Shall We Trust Japan? Well, in this article, written in 1923, he says that those things that had led to conflict and confrontation between Japan and the United States, well, those causes, underlying causes of conflict, they're all being removed or they're on the path to being removed. The U.S. and Japan were not on a road to war. Instead, they were on the road to accommodation and peace. In 1928, Roosevelt wrote another article in the flagship journal of the Council of Foreign Relations, the Journal Foreign Affairs. At this time, 1928 was an election year. Herbert Hoover was running on the Republican platform against the Democrat Al Smith from New York. Franklin D. Roosevelt was running that year to be governor of New York State. Well, he wrote an article to lay out the position of the Democrats if they became, if they were able to get office in 1928, what their foreign policy would be. As it turned out, Hoover easily beat Smith in the 1928 presidential election. The Republicans captured not only the White House, but also the House and Senate. Franklin D. Roosevelt, however, booked that Republican tide, and he was elected governor of New York despite the overall national victory achieved by the Republicans. Well, in this article, Roosevelt lays out that only the most excited of admirals, in other words, leaders of the Navy Department who had an interest in building up a threat from Japan, only they think that there's a serious possibility, as he said, of either country invading the other. This is 1928. Clearly, Franklin D. Roosevelt's crystal ball is a little cloudy. He is going to be president of the United States when that war between Japan and the United States occurs, and he is going to preside over as president the preparations for the invasion of Japan in the Second World War. Again, I'm highlighting this because not to say that Roosevelt was wrong, that he didn't understand future trends, quite the reverse. In the 1920s, Japan and the U.S. are cooperating with each other. It looks as if there is no underlying cause for these two great powers to fight each other. Indeed, it's suicidal in some way for great powers to fight each other. In the 1920s, in a period of prosperity, the world looks like it's going in a direction that is far removed from these countries going to war. Well, that would change. In October of 1929, you have the big stock market crash, and that crash leads to an economic downturn, the Great Depression. Now, the Great Depression afflicts not just the United States. It is also a global depression. Countries around the world are hurt by this economic catastrophe. The result of this is political instability, and two great powers in particular. Because of the economic downturn, their politics becomes radicalized, and they move in an aggressive way. One is Germany, the Weimar Republic, the Democratic regime is overthrown, and the Nazis come to power on January 30th, 1933. In Japan, Japanese society and politics is also radicalized, and you see a growth of militarism in Japanese society, but also in the government, in the leadership as well. Well, if you go to the FDR Memorial, the Franklin D. Roosevelt Memorial in Washington, D.C., you see this display here taken from photographs of the time of the Great Depression in the United States, of a street scene, of hungry, hungry men who have lost hope, who are looking down, they can't look up, psychologically beaten down, out of work, hungry, looking for a place to sleep. Roosevelt comes into office, elected overwhelmingly in a landslide victory in 1932 as president of the United States. And again, Roosevelt comes in not only trying to come up with economic measures to revive the economy, but also understanding that psychologically, how important it is to display leadership, to encourage people to believe in the future. And here you see a photograph, typical of many photographs of Franklin D. Roosevelt as president, with that big grin smiling and there smoking a cigarette with a cigarette holder like that. Again, trying to boost up the spirits of the American people to come out of the Great Depression. Well, one of the ways the government tried to get the country moving again was through public work projects. And one of those public work projects was to spend more on the Navy. Roosevelt, who had been assistant secretary of the Navy, who had presided over contracts, a buildup of American naval power during the First World War, during the Wilson administration, understood the Navy department. And he moved to strengthen the U.S. Navy in the early 1930s when he came into office. And here you see him in May of 1934, a big fleet review in New York Harbor. And you see the president there with his wife, Eleanor, with his mother, Sarah Delano Roosevelt, his son, Jimmy, and Jimmy's wife on the cruiser Indianapolis. So maybe you might be familiar with the story of the Indianapolis. The Indianapolis carried nuclear weapons across the Pacific that would be used against Japan after it had performed that mission. It was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine. And as a consequence, the crew, when it went into the water, were attacked by sharks while in the water. If you've seen the movie Jaws, you know some of the background, some of the story of that. Again, a tragic event that this cruiser would be sunk in the closing days of the Second World War. Well, here the president's aboard the Indianapolis reviewing the American battle fleet. Now, if the 1920s was a period where the great powers are cooperating with each other, the 1930s after the Great Depression is a time of increased great power competition and rivalry. In Japan, leaders of Japan who are looking toward cooperation with Britain and the United States, with the liberal democracies of the world, those that want to avoid conflicted war, some of the most prominent are assassinated. One prime minister, important finance minister. So leaders in Japan who want to pursue, continue to pursue cooperation, they're being removed by the scene. The New York Times reporter in Tokyo during the 1930s wrote a book about his experiences published in 1942. The title he gave it was the government by assassination. And that title has stuck in thinking about how Japan's government, civilian leadership, party leadership was eroded and instead military government is being imposed on Japan. What I like about this is that the author, this journalist, his name is bias. Imagine that, a journalist who is bias. Well, the Emperor Hirohito, here you see him on a white horse taking the review of his soldiers, the Imperial Japanese army. Hirohito is a very controversial figure. Should he be considered a war criminal or not? After the Japanese surrendered, unconditional surrender, we decided not to indict or not see the Emperor Hirohito as a war criminal. We saw him as a force of stability in occupied Japan, legitimizing the American occupation of Japan. But since his death, there has been increasing criticism looking into his role. Was he an ardent Japanese nationalist? Of course he was. But how much is he a part of the militarization of Japan that takes place, that leads to the Second World War? And could he have avoided the war? Again, these are controversies now about the Emperor Hirohito. Well, Japan in 1931 moves to take over Manchuria. In 1910, Japan had taken over Korea, brought it into the Japanese Empire. In 1931 though, they're taking over this portion of Northeast China. Manchuria is a region that is rich in iron and coal. With iron and coal, you build steel. With steel, you can build battleships. You can build tanks. You can build artillery tubes. Japan's military leaders want control of this region to be able to enhance Japanese power in the world. Taking over this territory though on the mainland infuriates Chinese nationalists who see Manchuria as being part of China proper. This sets Japan and Japan and China on a collision course toward war. Japanese army in the March into Manchuria, establishing a puppet state there. In 1937, an escalation of tensions between China, nationalist China, and Imperial Japan leads to war. It's called the Second Sino-Japanese War. The First Sino-Japanese War was in 1894-95. And in that war, Japan beat Imperial China. And as part of the spoils of that war, took over Taiwan. Taiwan was part of the Japanese Empire from 1895 down to 1945 and Japan's defeat in the Second World War. Notice here the chronology. 1937. By the time the United States entered the war, in 1941, China and Japan had already been fighting for four years against each other. A major war here between China and Japan. The leader of Nationalist China was Generalissimo Shunkai Shek. It's important to remember the resistance of the Nationalists, Nationalist China, and Shunkai Shek's regime against Japan. During the war, the Nationalist forces, while often beaten in battle, tied down large numbers of Japanese troops in China. The Nationalist regime wouldn't give up. Japan, when they went to war in 1937, expected a quick victory. Instead, they were tied down in a quagmire in China, a war they couldn't win. Well, this war would drag on, resulting in large numbers of Chinese casualties, both civilian and military. Again, a Japanese army on the march. Here's a photograph taken from film footage that shows an abandoned baby in a battered, bombed, Shanghai railway station. The American public would see these film clips in their newsreels at the movie theaters. They looked at this and increasingly Americans were sympathizing with China against Japan. They looked at this aggression and they saw it as being barbaric. And so, over time, American public opinion is hardening against Japan and favoring China in the 1930s. In October, October 5th, 1937, soon after the war between Japan and China lit up, President Roosevelt, in a speech in Chicago, talked about the war in China and also what he says is an increasing lawlessness in the world. And he compared it to a pandemic, that this lawlessness like a pandemic is spreading. Again, how do you stop the spread of disease? Well, through a quarantine. This speech is known as the quarantine speech. It's a famous speech that Roosevelt gave. And again, how do you protect the health of the community? Well, you have to quarantine the patient, somehow rope it off so that this disease, in this case, the disease of war doesn't spread. Again, war is a contagion, he says, and it can engulf states and people far removed. So in other words, that fighting in Asia won't stay in Asia. That war could well escalate to include other countries far removed from the Asian mainland. And here's where his speech gets controversial to the American people. He tells the American people, he says, don't imagine that this war in China or in other places in the world won't spread to the United States. And that the US, by hunkering down in the Western hemisphere, preparing a hemispheric defense that America will escape somehow the travails of war and can expect mercy by staying in a Western hemisphere where we won't be attacked. We won't be able to live at peace here at home if the rest of the world is at war. Now, at the time, this is controversial because Americans are disposed to thinking that the Western hemisphere is somehow cut off from the rest of the world, that the US in the new world can escape the problems of the old world. In the First World War, Americans had gone over there, overseas to Europe and fought on the battlefield. They then came home, but the peace didn't last. And so many Americans were disillusioned with a larger American role in the world scene. They had gone over and fought on the battlefields of Europe, and the result was, well, not peace, instead a depression and renewed conflict around the world. How do you avoid conflict then? Well, then hunkered down in the Western hemisphere. This type of isolationism Roosevelt is arguing is dangerous for the security of the United States. Well, not only is war in Asia lighting up in 1937, but in September of 1939, Nazi Germany in collaboration with Soviet Russia go to war taking over Poland. They partition Poland together. Hitler and Stalin make a pact with each other. They call for the partition of Eastern Europe. That's the first of Nazi conquests. After taking over Poland in the spring of 1940, the German forces moved west into Western Europe in April of 1940, invasion of Denmark and Norway in May of 1940, and invasion into the Netherlands, into Belgium, into France. Now, what happens here is a big upset. The Germans are able to beat down France in a short period of time. They achieve a quick victory over another great power of France. At the time, this was shocking. Remember, in the First World War, 1914 to 1918, the Great War, the Germans hammered again and again against the French lines, but were never able to take Paris. France had been able to hold on throughout the First World War. Now, in this war, France is folding within six to eight weeks of the beginning of the German offensive. You can see the headline of the New York Times that the Germans are on the march are about ready to occupy Paris. Paris was declared an open city. The French army wouldn't fight for Paris. They retreated beyond Paris. Well, these are the newsreels Americans would see of a German army going down the Champs-Élysées, France being crushed by this German offensive of Hitler, Hitler being able to take a tour of Paris. Again, this is a big upset. No one anticipated this. It was thought that the Second World War would be something of a replay of the First World War. The Germans would attack, and yeah, they'd make some gains, but then a stalemate would happen, and the Western Front would be re-established. But instead, Germany wins quickly. Europe, continental Europe under German Nazi control. The one great power that holds out in Europe is Great Britain under Winston Churchill. He came to power as Prime Minister in May, 1940, just as the German offensive is starting up. Within Britain, after the defeat of France, some of Britain's leaders thought that the war is lost. Time to cut your losses, make a deal with Hitler. Churchill, however, refused to consider that. As he said, there could be no parley with Hitler and the Nazi regime. Under Churchill's leadership, the British government rallied and the British people around him as well. You can see one of the British tabloids of the times echoing Churchill's speeches, we never surrender. Well, Britain might not give in to peace talks with Hitler, but Hitler unleashed the German Air Force against Britain, the British homeland. Britain had a well-developed, in fact, the best air defense system in the world in 1940. And so they could blunt the German air offensive, but they couldn't stop it completely. The German Air Force could bomb British urban areas, British cities. The bomber could get through. Well, the losses were heavy that the British people suffered during the Blitz of 1940. Here you see the bombing around St. Paul's Cathedral in London for the British government and Churchill. At all costs, they have to preserve, save Christopher Wren's magnificent achievement, the Cathedral of St. Paul's. It was hit by bombs, there were fires inside. A high priority was to make sure that the cathedral was not destroyed by German bombing, but the area around St. Paul's Cathedral suffered a great deal. Buckingham Palace was bombed, while the King and Queen were in residence with no warning. They could have been killed. So even the royal family is under attack. And here you see Churchill with King George the Sith and his wife, the parents of the current Queen of Great Britain, inspecting the damage of Buckingham Palace. In the spring of 1941, Parliament was bombed. House of Commons was destroyed by German bombing. The House of Commons that we now see had to be rebuilt after the Second World War. Britain stays in the war, but it's important to recognize just how serious the damage was that the Germans inflicted. Between August of 1940 and December of 1940, over those months, almost 25,000 British civilians were killed in the German bombing of cities' urban areas. Imagine that. Put that in perspective of September 11th. It's the equivalent of seven or eight September 11th attacks in loss of life and damage to British urban areas. Despite the heavy loss of life and damage, Britain's war production continued. In fact, it grew and Britain could stay in the war, supported by the United States. Here you see the headlines in the United States about the fall of France. This is a big shock in the United States. Americans could take comfort that in the First World War, Britain and France had held off the Germans on the continent. But the fall of France is a big shock. Americans realized that even in the Western Hemisphere, we won't be secure unless we increase dramatically our armed forces. So you see national service conscription is put in place in peacetime. And also the United States Navy is going to be built up a two ocean Navy. The fall of France has big impact on American perceptions of the world. Even if you're an isolationist, you agree that the U.S. armed forces have to be dramatically increased because the world has become much more dangerous. FDR. He had already been elected twice in 1932 and 1936, two landslide elections. 1940, what would he do? No one had run for presidency three times. As you know, it was a great tradition in the United States. Wasn't enshrined at the Constitution at that time. But a great tradition set by George Washington, our founding father, our first president in the United States. After two terms of office, he stepped down and went back to his farm. A tradition was set that no one should run for office more than twice for the office of the presidency. Again, this tradition was one that was very powerful. Now, there had been other presidents who thought about running for a third term. Ulysses S. Grant did. Woodrow Wilson did. But both of them decided against it, in part because of bad health, but also because they realized that there was no real support for it. Again, think about this. If you ran for a third term, what you were implying was that you are greater than George Washington. Washington was content with two terms. If you run for three terms, well, that must mean you're better than George Washington. Who can be better than George Washington? Well, in the spring of 1940, President Roosevelt looked at opinion polls. And the question was put to the American people, should President Roosevelt run for a third term? And it was pretty clear the American public opinion was mixed and they were against the idea. Again, no one should run for a third term. Well, after the fall of France and this heightened sense of the dangerous international security environment, the American public's opinion changed. All of a sudden, it became Roosevelt is the one leader that we can see. Both parties across the political spectrum who is suited for the leadership that the United States will need in this period of peril when war is looming up. And so public opinion changed. At the same time, now, Roosevelt believed he had to be cautious. He couldn't say, I want to be president. What he did was conduct a campaign that's rather savvy here, and you can see it from this poster. Just as young 18-year-olds are going to be drafted into the armed services, President Roosevelt was going to be drafted to be president of the United States. He was being called into service by the American people. So that's how the campaign portrayed itself to be, that everyone should be involved in providing for national security from the 18-year-olds to the president of the United States. And so his party conscripted him to run for the presidency. Well, he was up against a very tough political opponent, Wendell Wilkie. Wendell Wilkie was a Democrat who had turned Republican, a successful campaigner, a charismatic figure, someone who attracted a large number of votes to the Republican presidential ticket. Indeed, he got more votes for any Republican running for president up to that time, but it was still not enough. And here you see Wendell Wilkie campaigning in his hometown in Indiana. Here's the election results of 1940. As you can see, it's an overwhelming victory for a third term for President Roosevelt. As you can see across the country, Roosevelt has carried states in the Southwest, as well as in the Northeast. Roosevelt is a global thinker. Here is a globe that was built for the president by the War Department. Another one was built, by the way, for Winston Churchill. And that globe is in Winston Churchill's home in the countryside, Chartwell, outside of London. Well, this photograph shows, symbolizes Roosevelt's ability to look at the globe. He understands that what happens in Asia what happens in Asia is connected to what happens in Europe. These are not separate theaters, they're interconnected. He has a global view of the world. Much as today we understand that what goes on in Europe, Putin's Russia has profound implications for the Middle East and also for East Asia. What happens in the East Asia can also have implications for Europe. The United States as a global power has to balance different theaters. It can't just focus on one theater. What happens in one theater will have an impact on another. Well, for Roosevelt, the United States must buoy up those countries fighting against aggressor states. And so the United States enacts in 1941, early 1941, lend lease to support with war supplies, with food, what is needed by Britain and later the Soviet Union to fight against Nazi Germany, nationalist China against Japan. Roosevelt called this to be the great arsenal of democracy. The U.S. has to work with partners around the world to defeat aggression. Well, on June 22, 1941, Hitler turned on his partner Stalin and attacked the Soviet Union. Hitler wanted to get the resources of the Soviet Union. Just as Japan went into Manchuria to get the coal and the iron, Hitler is moving into the Soviet Union to conquer Ukraine to get the grain that's there, to move to the Caucasus to get oil, to also get the coal and iron that's in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine that is now fought over. He wants to expand the German Empire to make it stronger so that it's able to compete on the world stage against the United States. He believes that Germany can only compete against the United States by having greater access to resources. As he would say, Germany's have not power, have not powers, have to acquire more resources to be able to compete against the countries that have already resources like the United States. Well, in August of 1941, Churchill and Roosevelt meet off the coast of Newfoundland in the Atlantic summit. Here you see Roosevelt and Churchill on the British Battleship Prince of Wales. This is the first wartime summit of Churchill and Roosevelt. The two of them had actually met before in 1918 when Franklin D. Roosevelt during the First World War had gone over on an inspection tour of the Navy in Europe and in London he met at a dinner Winston Churchill. By the way, they didn't get along on that first meeting. Roosevelt would say that Churchill was rude to him. He was a stinker. Churchill didn't make a good first impression with Franklin D. Roosevelt. In fact, in this summit meeting, Churchill had forgotten that he met Franklin D. Roosevelt before during the First World War. So he said, oh, so good to meet you, Mr. President. And Roosevelt had to say, we met before. Boy, he need better briefing there before going into the summit. Or anyway, they hit it off with each other, though, because they shared a common interest, the defeat of Nazi Germany. And behind behind Roosevelt and Churchill you see on the right Admiral Harold nicknamed Betty Stark, the chief of naval operations at that time in August 1941. Naval War College graduate class of 1923. On the other side, left Admiral Ernest J. King, also a naval war college graduate, the class of 1933. He will become chief of naval operations after Admiral Stark in 1942. So Roosevelt and Churchill with top military leaders, British and American, sit to discuss war aims, what should the post war world look like, but also strategy for how to defeat the aggressor states. Here you see a service that was held on the Prince of Wales. You can YouTube this and see the newsreels of the time. One of the outcomes of this conference, the Atlantic Conference, is the Atlantic Charter. And there's the whole Atlantic Charter, eight paragraphs. When you look at it, you see that it is the war aims. What Britain and the United States can agree upon that they're fighting for. The United States still isn't in war. Think of the chronology. This is August 1941, several months before Pearl Harbor. And yet we've laid out what we want to see the world look like. And in particular, number six, after the final destruction of the Nazi tyranny, we're not at war with Germany yet. And yet we're calling for what? Regime change. The United States, the President of the United States has signed up for the defeat of Germany. By the way, in Germany, this is seen as being akin to a declaration of war. In addition to that, the quarantine speech of October 5th, 1937, Hitler looked at that as a sign that the United States was opposed to the ambitions of Nazi Germany. Hitler already has decided that Roosevelt is his enemy from 1937 on. But here we lay out the world that we would like to see a more peaceful international order once the aggressor states are defeated. Japan, unlike Nazi Germany, is not specifically mentioned in the Atlantic Charter by name. But at the same time, it's clear that the Atlantic Charter is also referring to Japan's defeat as well, that these aggressor states are going to be demilitarized. They're going to be controlled. There's no way that they're going to be able to once again launch wars of aggression. Well, Roosevelt comes back and right away you want to say, well, what do the American people think about the Atlantic Charter? So here's a poll, Gallup poll put to the American people. How would you vote today when the U.S. entering a war against Germany for regime change? Enter war, 21%, stay out, 74%, no opinion. Again, think about this. The president has gone, met with the British leader, Britain's at war with Germany. The United States is providing war supplies and food to Britain, to the Soviet Union, nationalist China, very much engaged in helping those countries fight against Germany and Japan. The president is committed to helping them win against their enemies, and yet the American people, as you can see, are very skittish. By an overwhelming majority, they would like to avoid a war with Germany if they could. But they didn't ask another question that went along with that first question, which is more important to the American people, that the country keep out a war where the Germany be defeated, even if it means a higher risk of war, defeat Germany. Almost 60% of the American people say, yes, we want to see Germany defeated. We recognize that Germany is a dangerous menace and ought to be defeated. Yes, we sign up for the president's idea that Germany has to be defeated. Stay out, almost 40%, and no opinion, 5%. Well, again, what does this polling data show? Well, one thing is that 5% of the American people are clueless. The other thing it shows, though, is that the American people understand what it will take to defeat Germany. It will require a heavy expenditure of life and treasure to be able to defeat Germany. They want to see Germany defeated. They just don't want to have to bear the human cost of defeating Germany. They want someone else to do the fighting, China, Britain, Soviet Union. Again, in some ways, it's rational. You want to achieve something but at the lowest cost to yourself. So when you look at this, what might seem contradictory, it actually makes some sense, of course. Well, another thing happens in the fall of 1941 before Pearl Harbor. The United States and Britain become involved in building up nuclear weapons. The British had put together a committee to examine the feasibility of developing nuclear weapons. A group of engineers and scientists, and the committee is known as the Maud Committee, and they wrote a report in 1941. The report says to build nuclear weapons will require a big expenditure. But the destructive effect, both in the damage it can inflict and the psychological impact of these weapons, mean that despite the cost, an effort should be made to acquire them. When these weapons can be acquired, well, again, in this early report is that by the end of 1943, these weapons might become available. Now we know the history. It's the summer of 1945. Nonetheless, British expert committee is looking into this and saying it's feasible and can be acquired before too long. They also highlight another dimension, a strategic dimension, was that even if the war ends before the nuclear weapons are available, no country, no great power is going to want to be without them. Their future security will depend upon having these weapons. If you want to enforce the peace, you want to have these weapons. It's important to note that the Second World War is the first nuclear war and the first nuclear arms race. The arms race is against Nazi Germany. The fear that British and American leaders have is that Nazi Germany will get nuclear weapons before Britain and the United States. The British share this report with the Americans and it's brief to President Roosevelt. Here's the key recommendations. Again, these weapons are feasible. They could bring decisive results of war. It should be the highest priority to achieve them and the British recommend collaboration with the United States to obtain these weapons because of the expense of this collaboration partnerships will help make it more feasible. Well, Roosevelt is briefed about it by his scientific advisors and he writes to Winston Churchill and highlights that this is important, that efforts must be made between Britain and the United States Canada to develop these weapons. Churchill agrees. He writes back to Roosevelt and saying that Britain is surely willing to cooperate in this. Again, before Pearl Harbor, there's this recognition of a danger from Nazi Germany, a danger that these new weapons will be developed. Now, we know the history. Nazi Germany didn't develop nuclear weapons. They decided against it because of its cost and also the thought that they might not be feasible. Instead, they put their resources into developing ballistic missiles. These two legacy systems of the 1940s, missiles, ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons were married together still remain the most daunting security challenge that countries face today. Again, it's important to know these decisions are being made in the context of what seems to be a Nazi Germany that's winning the war. Well, back to the Pacific and the danger of Japan. What concerns Roosevelt is that if Japan strikes north against the Soviet Union or south against the British Empire in Southeast Asia that it will tilt the balance of power in Europe. If Japan attacks the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union keeps forces in the Far East, those are forces that can't go to the defense of Moscow against the surging German armies invading the Soviet Union. Again, what goes on in Asia is having an impact on the European front. If Japan goes south to seize the resources oil of Southeast Asia attacks the British Empire, it will have an impact in drawing forces, British imperial forces to Asia that won't be able to be available to fight Nazi Germany in Europe. So again, Roosevelt is looking at the globe and seeing how events in Asia will have an impact on Nazi Germany's ability to be successful in Europe. Well, after the fall of France, Roosevelt decides that one way to try to deter these advances, a northern advance against the Soviet Union, a southern advance against the British Empire, is to forward deploy the US battle fleet to Pearl Harbor. It is thought by Roosevelt that the fleet at Pearl Harbor will act as a sobering, sobering effect on Japanese decision makers. Here you see the battleship Arizona, the battle fleet on maneuvers. Of course, our own war college examined war plans, a game down war plans against Japan and Germany. And here you see the floor of Pringle Hall where gaming took place to develop the so-called orange plan. The orange plan orange is the color code given to Japan. Black was the color code given to Germany. The orange plan to game out alternative scenarios for how to fight Japan. Well, the head of the US battle fleet, Admiral Richardson, sitting in Hawaii said, I don't want my fleet here. He doesn't like the war plans that he has in front of them. As he said, the war plans that he had in front of him were predicated on a navy that the planners would like to have rather than the navy they actually had. Richardson wanted to see the fleet withdrawn from Hawaiian waters back to the west coast of the United States because he believed that the navy, the fleet, could be made more readiness. For him it was a readiness question that the fleet could be trained up better prepared for a war against Japan if it was on the west coast rather than at Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt didn't agree. And Richardson was brought back to Washington where he held high level discussions with the president. The president insisted on keeping the fleet at Pearl Harbor. Richardson in discussions with the president was actually quite rude to the president. And as a result, Roosevelt removed him from command. And instead, Admiral husband Kimmel took over command of the battle fleet. By the way, in the discussions that Richardson had with the president, the most important concern was readiness of the fleet that the fleet could be made more ready by being on the Pacific coast, west coast, than in Hawaii. He mentioned in passing that Pearl Harbor was also potentially could be attacked. But that wasn't the main concern of his in this. For most American planners and leaders, Pearl Harbor was seen as far enough away from Japan that it wasn't in real danger of being hit in an attack. Well, the leader of the Japanese combined fleet, leader Admiral Yamamoto, he is looking at the ability of Japan to strike at Pearl Harbor. Japan has six big fleet carriers. And he comes to the conclusion that that can be used as a striking force to take out the American fleet in the first blow right up front. A battle of the first salvo. Now, Japan is going to advance south, taking wake, Guam, Philippines, going down to Malaya and Singapore to get this resource-rich area under Japan's control so it can fight better a protracted war against the United States. But in addition to that, Yamamoto factors in an attack on the American fleet. That he wants to begin the war with a big surprise attack. The idea is defeat the American forces, naval forces, right up front. Yes, the U.S. is building a big two ocean navy, but it won't be ready till 1943. And when that navy finally is able to come across the Pacific in late 43 or 44, Japan with the resources of Asia will be able to build up its own naval forces and stand ready to beat back that American offensive and inflict such high losses on the Americans that the American will to fight to roll back the Japanese conquests will break. The American will will break. Well, here you see the program for the Army Navy game of 1941. You see the midshipmen, Corps of Cadets standing, marching, proud, holding up their banners. If you go inside the program from November of 1941, you see this photograph of the battleship Arizona plowing into a huge swell. That's the caption underneath the Arizona. And it goes on to say in that caption, despite the claims of air enthusiasts, no battleship has yet been sunk by bombs. This is just a couple weeks before Pearl Harbor. This is what the ancient Greeks would call hubris, a confidence and arrogance that the gods, of course, nemesis will come back and strike you down. Again, of all the battleships in the US Navy, why not the battleship Oklahoma or Pennsylvania or Maryland? Instead, it's the Arizona that is singled out for special mention in the program as a battleship that won't be sunk by bombs. And yet we know the history. The Arizona, of course, is destroyed by a bomb that penetrates into its magazine and explodes at Pearl Harbor. Japanese carrier force closing in on Pearl Harbor, getting ready to launch aircraft and the attack on Pearl Harbor in the American fleet. Japanese flag being set up to say that Japanese leaders should do their utmost duty. This is the same message that was sent to the Japanese fleet at the Battle of Tsushima in May of 1905 when Admiral Togo beat a Russian fleet that had come around from Europe. Again, hearkening back Japanese history to that earlier war. Well, the initial attack, bombs first landing on battleship row, a bomb destroying the Arizona, as you can see how it's wrecked the memorial today for the Arizona. And the newspaper account, Roosevelt, the president going on December 8th to a joint session of Congress to ask for a declaration of war. A speech was provided for him by his speech writers, a relatively short speech. And as you can see, the president then marks it all up. Look at this. His speech writers had yesterday, December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in world history. World history. Again, you can see the president intervening, taking out a comma, putting in a dash for emphasis for that clause. And it becomes a day which will live in infamy. The Japanese attack is infamous. Again, the power, the power of that word to highlight that the United States had been attacked in an underhanded way by an enemy that had snuck up on it. Again, we think about the day of infamy. That is President Roosevelt's own words there. Well, the United States declared war on Japan on December 8th, but doesn't declare war on Nazi Germany. For the next few days, what will the U.S. do? Will the U.S. declare war on Nazi Germany? Or will Hitler move to declare war on the United States? Well, on December 11th, 1941, 80 some years ago, Hitler goes before the German Reichstag and asks for a declaration of war against the United States. It's important to read the speeches of your enemies to hear what they say. What's the rhetoric? What's their language? Why are they going to war? Well, in this speech, Hitler says that Roosevelt has personally attacked him, and he's been rude to the fewer of Germany. But he doesn't regard it at all because Roosevelt, like his predecessor, Woodrow Wilson, is mentally unsound, he says. Woodrow Wilson, of course, was the American president who led the U.S. to war against Germany in the First World War. So both Roosevelt and Wilson are enemies of Germany who are mentally unsound, according to Hitler. And again, why does Roosevelt behave the way he does, forcing a confrontation with Japan? Because in Hitler's worldview, the United States, the so-called president, democratically elected, that's not what American politics is really about. What it is, is that there's a conspiracy of international Jewish financiers who really control American politics. They're the ones that have the strings. Roosevelt is merely a marionette to be controlled. And they are the ones forcing a confrontation with Japan to get the U.S. into the war. And again, the Japanese government has been humiliated by Roosevelt by the way the American government has been treating them. And again, for years, Roosevelt, this man, what's what, war. Roosevelt, since at least October 5th, 1937, in a quarantine speech, is looking to see how he can foster conflicts around the world. And why does he want to do that? Well, because Roosevelt's aim is nothing less than global hegemony. That's what the U.S. aims for, to take over the world. And that's what Germany and Japan are fighting against, a world dominated by the United States. Hitler is laying out what he sees is the world. Now, we know that his fantastic view of the world is crazy. And yet, it has a reality. Why? Because he believes it. He believes it and is acting upon it. Well, Roosevelt, on December 9th, two days after Pearl Harbor, gives a fireside chat to the American people. And here you see Roosevelt signing the Declaration of War against Japan. So as in the last few days, America has learned a terrible lesson. What is that lesson? Well, the oceans that we have, we think they're moats. The reality, they can be highways for aggressors. And then we can't measure our safety anymore in miles. We can't be isolated from the rest of the world. What happens overseas can have an impact on us and our security here at home. He understands that. And he's trying to educate the American people that in the post-war world, the United States has to be more engaged in the world and not retreat back into isolationism. Well, here you see a photograph on the right of President Roosevelt in April 1945, the day before he died. And on the left is a painting that was being painted of him, unfinished, on the left. On the right, you can see the physical ravages of war on the President of the United States. It reminds me of the photographs you see of Lincoln in 1861 and 1865. Again, holding high office in these desperate existential struggles. What a toll they take on the physical mental well-being of leaders should never forget that leaders too are only human. Roosevelt ran for a fourth term in 1944. His doctors told him in the summer of 44 he shouldn't do it. That he will not survive a fourth term as President of the United States. The stress, the rigor of leading the country was just in a wartime. It is just too great. Roosevelt ignored their advice and ran. And the sick Roosevelt won reelection in 1944. He had to go on. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Dr. Maurer. That gave us a great rundown about how we got where we were when Pearl Harbor attacked. And I think that's what we're looking for is context. That's great. I think we've got time for two questions. Is there anyone in the auditorium here that would like to ask a question? If not, we'll refer to the folks on Zoom. Okay, Gary, do you have any questions from our Zoom audience? Nothing just yet, but I had a question for the Professor. We did hear about what Hitler responded with when we declared war on Japan. What was the run-up to the public remarks from Germany and from Japan, even before that? Is it something that's similar to what we're seeing today with Putin and Ukraine and President Biden at all? Hitler, from at least 37 on, sees Roosevelt as an enemy. Japan, too, sees that Roosevelt is favoring China against Japan. In fact, Roosevelt's mother's family, the Delano family, had worked in the China trade. So, Franklin D. Roosevelt grew up with the allure of China, being a place that Americans can do business with and trade with. And so, for Japanese leaders, it was thought that Roosevelt, a big Navy man and someone who favored China, was opposed to them. I try to explode that a bit by pointing to those 1920s articles by Roosevelt in which he wants to see a cooperative Japan, what we might say as a responsible stakeholder rather than an aggressor state. Now, Germany and Japan's leaders, though, do look at Roosevelt as an enemy. Behind the scenes, Hitler is scathing about Roosevelt and sees the United States behind Britain's ability to fight on. Hitler believes, perhaps quite rightly, that Britain would not be able to continue the fight against Germany after the fall of France were it not for American help. So, Hitler early on is saying Roosevelt's America is the enemy. In the long run, in fact, Hitler sees that there's going to be a global struggle between a Nazi superpower and an American superpower. So, leaders in both Germany and Japan see the US as their ultimate main enemy, even when we're not yet formally in the war. Does that get to the question? Yes, it does. Thank you. John, the pretty question is, did Roosevelt know there was a pending attack on Pearl Harbor and basically allowed it to happen as a way to energize America and get into the war? Could you have a few thoughts about that? Yes. Like many conspiracy theories, it somehow seems satisfying that we knew everything. The reality is, no, they didn't know that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. Quite the reverse. We did not have, we didn't break the Japanese naval codes. We had broken their diplomatic cipher. We knew that a war was imminent with Japan. And the United States government sent out war warnings to our military leaders to expect hostilities commencing. So, we were aware that war with Japan was coming, but we were fixated on Southeast Asia quite rightly because that's what Japan wanted in its southern advance. Japan had also loaded troops, ground forces on the transports for the invasion of Malaya and to take Singapore. That was all being seen by aircraft. So, our attention is focused on Southeast Asia, not on Pearl Harbor. There are writers who allege, oh, well, we tracked the Japanese carrier force coming to Pearl Harbor. The problem is, I don't know how you track them because they were under radio silence. So, there was nothing to track there. So, most of these theories about, oh, yes, we knew, but, and there's variations of it. Roosevelt knew, but didn't tell Churchill. Churchill knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked, but didn't tell Roosevelt. Both Roosevelt and Churchill knew, but didn't want to share it with anybody else. These are all fantastic, and there's no good evidence for this whatsoever. Like a lot of conspiracy theories, it just doesn't hold water. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Admiral, do you have a question? Yes, Dr. Maurer, thank you so much for this wonderful presentation. And I just wondered if you had any brief comments about the relationship between the president and Admiral Nimitz. Admiral Nimitz, yes. One of the, what ifs of history is that after Admiral Richardson was fired, Nimitz could well have been named to be his successor. But can you imagine if he had been at Pearl Harbor on December 7th? Would the fleet had been energized in some way to be better able to scout to make sure before the Japanese attack came in? Who knows? Or would he have been, again, somebody who was caught by surprise on December 7th? Nimitz, though, was seen as so important that he was kept in Washington by Stark rather than be sent out. And hence, Kimmel, who was already out there, took over from Admiral Richardson. Nimitz, Roosevelt, like Nimitz, a great deal, saw him as being a very capable leader. Roosevelt had a real interest in his flag officers and the high command. So he had a high regard for, for Nimitz. Now, later in the war in 1944, we had two major prongs, one led against Japan, offensive prongs, one led by MacArthur out of Australia, and one led by Nimitz across the Central Pacific. And so President Roosevelt went out to Pearl Harbor to hear about their alternative strategies for how to defeat Japan. The Navy and Nimitz wanted to bypass the Philippines, didn't see the need to invade the Philippines. MacArthur, on the other hand, said, no, I said, I shall return. We should go back. This is the Americans should liberate the Philippines from Japan. And so in the discussions, MacArthur made a compelling case for his, for the retaking of the Philippines. And as a result, Roosevelt sided with MacArthur rather than with Nimitz. There was a lot of political considerations, though, going on behind the scenes there, because MacArthur was considered a great war hero for a big section of the American public. And so Roosevelt understood that to keep the American people on board, MacArthur, you wanted to listen to MacArthur and what he, he wanted to do. During the war, it's important to note, during the war, the American people, typically by two to one, when asked, who is the main enemy of the United States, said Japan because of Pearl Harbor, whereas our top political military leaders all considered Germany as our main enemy. So Roosevelt has a problem throughout the war, which is he has to have offensive operations against Japan to placate, if you will, satisfy the demand of the American people for offensives in the Pacific, even as we're trying to build up to have the offensives in Europe against Nazi Germany. Yes, David. Once again, thank you very much, Professor Mearns. It's fantastic. The style is incredible. And it's just great to see you again and hear from you. Two questions. And the first one may involve a little bit of speculation on your part, but so had Admiral Richardson convinced Roosevelt to go ahead and keep the fleet on the West Coast, how would that have changed Japan's strategy? Would they have taken Hawaii and launched from there maybe some speculation? What would you say Japan's next move would have been? Would they not have attacked the U.S. main one? What do you think on that? And then I have a second question. That's a great one-if scenario. Historians, political scientists call this counterfactual analysis. What if you changed some variable? What if President Roosevelt said, okay, Admiral Richardson moved the fleet back? There might have, if the fleet had not been, the battle fleet had not been crushed the way it did, damaged the way it was at Pearl Harbor, there might well have been a great deal of impetus given to carrying out an offensive, an early offensive. Remember, MacArthur is in the Philippines. The U.S. is being attacked there. In any Japanese war plan, they're going to take a Wake Island Guam and the Philippines. So there would be a great deal of pressure on the navy to carry out an offensive. And this is part of Richardson's fear that he doesn't have the forces to carry out that offensive, that theoretically is the war plan in front of them. He doesn't have the superiority that he would like to have. But if he's pushed into it, the result could have been either Richardson or Kimmel. There would have been a great battle off Wake Island in which the U.S. fleet probably would have been destroyed because the Japanese carrier force, those six big carriers are much better than what we had at that time. And under Yamamoto, again, you'd have to play it out and see how, but I would think the odds would favor Japan in that battle. So you have the American battle fleet and carrier sunk off of Wake Island in April of 1942, rather than the defeat that was suffered at Pearl Harbor. And of course, the victories that the U.S. has at Coral Sea and then in Guadalcanal. I mean, a great deal of luck in both of those victories that the U.S. had. We could have suffered a big defeat. No matter how bad Pearl Harbor looks, it could have been worse. And that might have happened. I think there would have been a lot of pressure to say you have to go out there and save Douglas MacArthur. The Navy should not let the Army down. We could have had a big disaster. We certainly would have had some range problems. The second question I have for you has to do with at the time, during this contemporary of Nimitz being in D.C., held back close to, as Roosevelt liked him quite a bit, what was Ernest King's role for the Navy as, so Kimmel has taken over now in Hawaii, and what were the grooming King to do next? Because he had come up underneath Stark. And I don't know a lot about his history. King was in charge of the Atlantic. And again, we're in what is considered an undeclared naval war already with Nazi Germany, where we're helping the British get more material supplies, go from North America, from South America to the U.K. And so King is entrusted with a very important command. Roosevelt and Churchill, what they would like to have happen is Japan not attack them. All the economic pressure being done, the deployment of the fleet of Pearl Harbor is all meant to deter Japan, to get them to parlay, to negotiate, and end to the China quagmire. Japan really doesn't offer any concessions in return for a lifting of our sanctions. And so Roosevelt and Churchill come to the conclusion that the Japanese aren't serious about wanting to negotiate. And if we lift our sanctions on Japan, maybe the Japanese won't attack the U.S. and Britain, but they'll intensify their pressure against Shunkai Shek. And if Shunkai Shek is defeated, nationalists are defeated, then the Japanese army becomes freed up. So what Roosevelt would like to have happen is Japan get out of the war with China, withdraw back, and then America can focus its efforts on Europe. And hence, King, who is seen as a great naval leader, is being put in charge of the theater that is most important, which is to make sure American forces are and resources are able to get across the the Atlantic. So yeah, and then what happens is Stark is given command of American naval forces in Europe, and then King takes his place. Again, Roosevelt has a high regard for Stark for King Nimitz, and also Admiral Leahy, who ends up being essentially the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Second World War. That relationship is a very close one. Thank you, John. Excellent. Thank you. One of the values of events such as the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor gives you the opportunity to think about history and how important it is that we understand history. We have a real gem here in Newport, and that's the Naval War College Museum. And what I'd like to do tonight is to have the education outreach director of the museum, Blake O'Rine, come up and talk to us just briefly about the assets that are available over there. Invite anyone who's here tonight. If you'd like to go over the museum, we'll be open until 1900. But Blake, if you'd like to come through and talk briefly about the museum, and then we'll conclude the evening. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. And thank you, Dr. Mauer, for the great presentation at the Naval War College Museum. Well, we believe that no matter who you are, where you go, or what you do, the ideas and the stories that we tell can both advance your career and enrich your life. Our museum has three objectives. To present the history of the Navy in Narragansett Bay, the history of the Naval War College, and the history of the development of naval strategy. And we have six galleries that tell the story in a chronological arc of multiple histories woven together. Here you're seeing the first gallery introducing the colonial history of Newport and Rhode Island. Here's our torpedo station gallery, which tells the story of the naval torpedo station on Goat Island. Of those two torpedoes on the left, the one on top is the Navy's earliest self-propelled torpedo called the Fish Torpedo from 1871. This one in our gallery is the only surviving example that we know of in existence. On the right is the Mark 14 torpedo, and this 20-foot long model was employed for more than 40 years starting in World War II. Get up close and take a behind-the-scenes look to observe the complex internet mechanisms like the gyroscope propulsion and more developed over 80 years ago. Upstairs is our training station gallery. Yes, that is an engraved ostrich egg on the lower left in the foreground. In this gallery, you learn about the first shore-based training of the Navy, and the first women enlisted in the Navy, as well as the stories of famous ships like the USS Constellation and those of the Great White Fleet. Come to learn about the history of the naval war college itself and be inspired by the careers of Stephen B. Loose and the contributions of Captain William McCarty Little to the founding of the war college and war gaming here. Compare detailed models of ancient Greek naval vessels with current or even concept models that the Navy is still developing. I'll also see our newest exhibition shown here on the top of the Five Star Admirals, and these are the uniforms, personal artifacts in the stories of the only four Five Star Admirals all from World War II, many of which we just heard about in discussed Nimitz on the left, King, Leahy, and Halsey. So come hear some more answers to some of these great questions and these topics specifically that we just heard about even more in the exhibition here in the museum. The World War I gallery describes the role of Admiral Simms and the evolution of the naval war college in the events that would lead up to World War II. And finally, our gallery that tells stories from World War II is in our temporary exhibition space. Here we have the lives and the works of the waves, the women accepted for volunteer emergency services. So the Naval War College, as we described in the museum, made significant contributions throughout the 20th century, not least of which include the development of war plans, such as World War Plan Orange in World War II. And for now, we have on display, as part of this exhibition, a rare copy of a German naval enigma machine. We heard from Professor Maurer that the Japanese diplomatic ciphers were broken, but not their naval ciphers at first. And so learn the story of how the German naval codes were broken through the work of the waves using found machines like this. And the reason this is so rare is because these were found on German U boats. And so they were even more heavily encrypted messages that came from these in the German army enigma machines that had three rotors. So learn all of these stories in this exhibition, which is only up just for a few more weeks. So I said it started in our temporary exhibition space. Got a couple weeks left. So come over tonight. If you don't come tonight, come tomorrow and catch this before it goes down. At the Naval War College Museum, we serve in a variety of capacities. We host classrooms from the Naval War College. We provide artifacts support for topics discussed. We provide tours. We have volunteer opportunities that range from collections to exhibitions to education. And we provide lectures and all kinds of content and support. So come. It's open tonight just for you until 7 p.m. And we would love to see you there. Your question, sir. Right around the holidays time towards the end of the year. So yeah, a couple weeks left. Come over Monday through Friday, 10 to four or make an appointment. We do group tours. So we look forward to seeing you. Thank you, Blake. Okay, that concludes tonight's presentation. Once again, we will take a break. We'll see you all back in January. Have a good holiday. Take the opportunity to recharge your batteries, spend time with family and friends and please travel carefully. Thank you. Good night.