 I'm going to call the shabuigan common council committee of the meeting committee of the whole meeting to order We'll call please belt here Warren here Carlson here Decker here common here Hammond here Heidemann excused cap there. Kittleson is here. Maddachek About 15 minutes late probably Rin Flesch here Racelor here Samson here Van Akron here Vanderweel here and versey All of them in versey also will be here, but a little late. We have a quorum present. Let's rise for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Before we get started on the next agenda item. We are on television tonight so we need to microphone up and We won't be live tonight. It'll be One p.m. Next I would entertain a motion to approve the minutes from the June 14th 2011 meeting the moved second a motion and a second to approve the minutes is there any discussion all in favor Chair votes aye Next on the agenda we have a public forum on any agenda item Anybody wish to speak? No public forum Next we have Chairman's comments Just want to go over briefly something that I send out to everyone a week or so ago and that is My expectations and the committee protocols for the committee Over the years. I've chaired many committees Summon city government Summon professional organizations that I belong to and whenever I've chaired a committee in whatever Role it's been. I've always had some expectation for expectations for my committee members And some of them are just basic housekeeping things If you if you can at all at all possible arrive about 10 minutes before the meeting that would be helpful If you're unable to attend the meeting I would appreciate it if you would call the city clerk's office or My cell phone as soon as possible if you know, you're not going to be able to attend or even if you're going to be running late I got at least one of those calls tonight If you don't have my cell phone number I think most of you do but if any of you don't have my cell phone number I'll give it to you after the meeting Another thing is important with the committee of the whole that we need a minimum of $9 persons in order to conduct city business And I would appreciate it getting back to attendance that we have no one excused absences. I Would appreciate it if you'd keep your cell phones and other electronic devices turned off and out of sight It's also very important to come to the meeting prepared to be an active Participant by having read all of the documents prior to the meeting if possible and please be prepared to be an active participant in all discussions It's very we talk about some very important topics with these committee of the whole meetings and It's very important that all you to try to participate in and ask questions makes for a better meeting Similar to other city committees that I've chaired I will vote last on all roll call votes If you wish to speak similar Same decorum is that council meetings that appreciate it if you're if you're push your button and I will recognize you Each other person will be allowed to speak three times in any agenda item a Full discussion of each agenda item will take place with no time limit most meetings will not exceed two hours in length And for some of the newer people on the council the mayor is not a member of the committee of the whole The mayor is welcome to attend the meeting and will be seated in in the public seating area. The mayor may speak at the chairman's discretion For maximum transparency for the citizens of Sheboygan I will attempt to have all committee of the whole meetings televised on channels 95 or 990 a public forum on agenda on agenda items For each committee the whole meeting I will be holding a public forum People will be able to speak up to three minutes on any agenda item and there will be no time extensions I Believe if we all work together on these protocols It'll make for an efficient and professional operation of the committee for the benefit of the cities of Sheboygan And I look forward to working with all of you. Thank you very much The next thing we have for discussion only Item number seven is an update on the city of Sheboygan's implementation of state of Wisconsin act 10 And if I could call up Tom Rice the city's HR and labor relations Director and Tom will be Doing the next couple of agenda items for us Thank You mr. Chairman could I draw your attention to the handout that's at your place What this is it goes a little bit beyond the act 10, but I wanted to make sure you were up to date in terms of where we are the Wisconsin retirement fund contributions 5.8 percent has already begun for transit as you may know we had a New contract go into effect for transit that carries us through 1231 of 2012 Their deductions became effective August 1st Non reps and elected became effective on 9 9 the payroll coming in at 9 9 this year All of the others will become effective on 1 1 12 Any questions on the retirement fund contributions Okay Medical insurance contributions of 12 percent transit began 8 1 11 Because they are the only collective bargaining agreement that was agreed to for that deduction date We have decided to defer any other increase Contributions until 1 1 of 12 when all of our Non-represented employees all of our elected officials All of our other unions with the exception perhaps of fire and police we have to see what happens in negotiations Will take place Benefit plan changes we're in the process of putting together the medical plan going forward for 2012 in addition to that we're also looking at some rules and regulations changes as well as overtime changes all of those Are going to go into effect on 1 1 of 12 However, as Jim and I have talked through this whole thing We want to make sure that we have those changes finished by October 1st Obviously for budget purposes so that he can put it in the budget, but also so that we can communicate with our current employees What we decide to do with some of those benefit programs may determine whether or not some of those employees choose to retire early or not So we've made that commitment to them Policy and procedure changes Since we're starting basically with a clean slate in many respects We're going to be reviewing all of the policies and procedures I'm just saying a couple call-in procedure attendance policy and those kinds of things Will be published and made available effective 1 1 of 12 and Finally The act 10 calls for us to put in place a grievance and appeal procedure That grievance and appeal procedure has been written. It will go to the salaries and grievance committee on Monday night and They will act upon that and I would suspect it'll come to council fairly soon and we'll get that thing going So any questions in terms of where we are Thank You mr. Chairman a couple questions, I guess on the whole form Can you explain the process on these changes are the changes that you're going to be looking to implement on these dates Are those going to be coming back to us for our approval through a committee process or is that something you just dictate? No, all of the changes will go through salaries and grievance At this point in time, I've not talked to Steve in terms of what have to go through council Generally speaking changes like policy and procedure and benefit plan changes go through the salaries and grievance insurance type of things are submitted to the council for your approval Okay, and then my other question is you brought up fire police are on the bottom here, but Fire and police are exempt from some of these or for most of these is my understanding Well, the grievance the grievance and appeal procedure Is already in place in both of the fire and police contracts? So they're not going to be effect unless we negotiate the new one, but they're not going to be affected by By the new one further that we have for the city We're entering into negotiations with both the firemen and the policemen starting next week and So they're not covered under the WF contributions. They're not covered under the medical insurance contributions The only thing that Act 10 or actually the new budget did was made medical program design features non-negotiable so in other words we can Put together the medical plan and that's what it is We can talk about premium Rates in terms of how we share that premium and so forth, but as far as the actual plan itself That's not an item for negotiation Okay, then my last question on the fire and police side of that the non-represented or the non-rep Employees in those departments, they're going to be taking Effect on these dates. Have we considered the effect of I guess it can you explain the? How that effect will the comparison effect are you going to have non-represented employees supervisors in these departments that are going to be making less overall Package compared to the union worker and have we considered that effect Again a supervisor who's now going to be making less to the then the officer that's getting we have we have taken a look at Compression studies. I'd rather can you hold your question until we talk about the pay plan? Because I think it'd be more appropriate to that Any other questions? Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Chair. I think it's and Tom if you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I Maybe a comment to your point as well. They're been accurate as some of these things aren't optional You know if the 5.8 those types of things they have to happen doesn't matter what the end result of their paycheck is They just 9 9 is the first pay period after 8 25. That's when they come into effect So your point duly noted, but it's not like we have as a council an option to change that Thank you Thank You alderman Hammond think thank you alderman vernachron any other questions. I Have a couple Under the W. R. R. F contributions the 5.8 percent currently elected officials are Contributing more than the 11.6 with the elected officials be Contributing half of what they're contributing now. That's correct. That's correct So I think it's 6.65 or something is what it looks like going forward And then the other thing on the two things on the medical insurance contributions I thought I read in the in the bill unless it was changed that it was going to be the percentage was going to be 12.6 percent 12% was what is in the act 10 bill and I'm the 12.6 was with the government insurance Plan that they have for Madison. We don't have that insurance plan And then the other thing is on the medical contributions for transit. It starts 8 1 Now I know on the W. R. F. Contributions that was mandated as alderman Hammond just mentioned is the medical insurance contributions Mandated that that start in September or is that at the option of the community that we can start that on 112 or 112 rather than in September of this year those employees covered under the government insurance portion and the program for insurance mandated as of 9 1 or 9 Whatever it was since we are not covered under that program. We aren't don't fall underneath that mandate We can choose to do what we want to do And to give you the rationale behind the decision None of the bargaining units thus far would be contributing any more this year to the insurance As we talk about the compensation plan going forward in the non-rep area We didn't feel that that was fair to take and penalize them as well going forward So that's why we chose to start everything as of 1 1 12 Thank you any other questions Thank you, Tom. We'll keep you back up in a few minutes for part two Next we have items for discussion possible recommendation of the common council. The first one is Gen item number eight communication number 2 dash 11 dash 12 council document number 5 23 Submitting a communication from Michael Toth being an article from the walkie journal Sentinel entitled trainee Feels the heat sweat and fear I initiated this article from the journal sentinel to the council After was submitted to me by mr. Toth And mr. Toth I understand as a member of the shawagan fire department And I know this this Article went before public protection and safety and I did Call mr. Toth and asked him to appear tonight if he wanted to Make any comments in this article Chief if if you had a chance to look at this article, are you familiar with it at all or not? Okay It was it was quite an interesting article on on the training procedures for For firefighters and what they go through in getting their training Is there any questions or Comments from the council on this on this article otherwise I'll look I'll entertain a motion Alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Chair. I'll make a motion to file second We have a motion and a second to file any further discussion All in favor opposed chair votes Next we have rc. Number 86 dash 11 dash 12 council document number 7 29 Uh your committee who met and discussed the draft compensation program for non-represented employees And after further review based on a positive recommendation from the salary and grievances committee recommends referral of this document Uh to the committee on finance and the committee of the whole Mr. Rice you want to step up and cover this again. I know this went to Finance at our last meeting and I believe we Did we put this on hold uh Alderman Hammond or did we just uh You're correct. Mr. Chairman. We put it on hold until this meeting and we'll bring it up. It'll come back on Monday Okay, mr. Chairman All of you should have in front of you two documents one of them is a comparison of the old to the new plan And the other one for your benefit. I didn't know whether you I thought you had received copies of the pay plan But if you hadn't here it is um As I took a look at the the non-represented pay plan I think basically it was a very good plan going forward There were two as I thought as I saw primary problems with it one of them was It was based primarily on across-the-board increases in order to maintain equity between employees Which didn't allow for Either segregating a group of employees to get a raise or not get a raise and those kinds of things And as I as I took a look at that I thought to myself Based upon what's happening in business and industry today Uh, it made more sense to me to take and move from That kind of a pay plan to what I call a pay for performance plan And the plan is based upon the fact that you are compensated vis-a-vis a pay increase Based upon your performance and your performance is evaluated by your supervisor Based upon goals and objectives that you and your supervisor mutually agree to So As you and your supervisor agree to goals and objectives The employee understands full well. This is what's expected of me and this is what my performance is going to be rated on So the employee rather than wondering for the course of a year's period of time How I'm doing in my in my supervisor's eyes All he here she has to do is take a look at their objectives and say how am I doing in meeting these goals and objectives So In my opinion the heart of the program Is the goals and objectives being worked out mutually between the supervisor and the subordinate So rather than having across the board increases universally it would be Merit increases based upon performance which are based upon performance goals and objectives mutually established Secondly little use of merit increases in the old plan The new proposal is it allows for the opportunity to use across the board increases if there are egregious disparities But basically there wouldn't be any across the board increases. They would be based upon merit and performance Thirdly performance evaluations with no relative value I have to share with you honestly that the performance evaluation program in the city is one where you check a few boxes and that's it To a performance evaluation program of great value And I think again to reiterate to you it's the goals and objectives setting part of the program. That's the heart of it So if the council adopts the pay plan Then we're going to put in place training for managers and supervisors that talks about how to effectively establish goals and objectives Because a meaning less goal is become more proficient in arrests procedure Pick on the cops Now that means nothing. How do I how do I evaluate myself? You know you talk about specific goals and objectives increase Or decrease over time by 10 percent Or something like that where it's measurable people understand or several different measures, you know outstanding would be by 10 percent Very good would be 8 percent Satisfactory would be 5 percent so the employee can walk away knowing exactly what he or she is going to be rated on and how to accomplish those goals The across the board increases were to the midpoint of the grade in the old pay plan As the midpoints changed employees never really increased based upon their position within the salary grade This plan calls for a merit percent increase to their actual current pay To go back for just a minute The pay plan is based upon a minimum a midpoint and a maximum The midpoint is targeted to be the fair market value for the job So if we were going to hire an accountant If I would do a salary survey, I would take a look at not only the municipal Comparatives that we have and what's happening in that sector, but also the business sector and say hey If i'm going to recruit from the shaboy in milwaukee green bay madison area, what can I reasonably expect to pay? That's where we need to set our midpoints Because that's the fair market value of the job And then you take a look at the qualifications of the person who we end up hiring where they fit into fully qualified And chances are they're going to start a little bit less than what the midpoint is and have the opportunity to work up The goal is to get your employees to the midpoint of the job if they're performing in the satisfactory or above average manner So the only way to do that is to give the increase based upon Their actual salary rather than upon the midpoint Increases for below standard performance were in the old pay plan vis-a-vis the across the board increase Increases in the new playpen for standard performance and above I think this is critical because Why in the world would we pay or give someone an increase if they're performing below standard? It just makes no sense So if you'll notice in the in the plan itself I think it calls for a one and a half percent increase at standard And then two and then two and a half and that's something that would come before the council every year That grid if it changes over it's proposed to be changed But basically it's based upon if you want to increase your pay you have to perform at a standard level or above And finally all employees received increases under the old play pay plan under the new one Only employees who met objectives received the increase I From my experience there's There's been a commonly accepted practice within the city government that you can virtually never get fired Which means that you don't have to perform at above average levels And over the course of time we've tolerated that That's not an indictment against city employees at all All it says is that we need to expect our employees to perform at a level that that employee and their supervisor agree upon And if they don't perform to that level, they shouldn't be warranting a merit increase So those are the the six basic changes in comparing and contrasting the two Questions um, thank you, mr. Chair Thanks time for putting us together just a couple quick questions In 13 parts, so I know one's ever seen that would be first off I like the idea of having merit based pay Um And obviously we've got many different functions that go on the city. Is it going to be the department? And I know you said mutually agreed upon, but are these going to be metrics based? You know goals are are kind of you know nebulous depending on the department Are there going to be some hard fast metrics that are going to have to be achieved? That's what that's what the training is going to involve in terms of setting meaningful goals and objectives And what does that mean? You and I both know that the only way to set a meaningful goals have some kind of a metric in there a measurement tool And I think regardless of whether you're you're a garbage collector or somebody else you can have measurable goals and objectives And a follow-up on that, um, obviously if we're going to a merit based pay system instead of an across the board system um, you know it's important for Employees to know where they stand and obviously they can look back at their goals or metrics Will there be implemented a You know an in-progress review if you will halfway through the year or quarterly You know, is there anything like that in vision for this? So an employee comes back and gets a substandard and says well You know no one talked to me throughout the year about things that I wasn't doing Well or correctly or what have you and again? I realize the employees got some responsibility there to look at the metrics and say Yeah, I'm not Doing as well. How can I improve? But is there going to be a system for that? Supervisors and managers are going to be reminded once again that it's their The performance of their subordinates is their responsibility. So if someone isn't performing up to a standard level It's the supervisor or managers responsibility to talk to that employee before The annual performance evaluation comes up So I'm going to urge them at minimum at least six months review if not three and six and nine At least for the first year or two So just a follow-up on that if I may Then for the supervisor or manager, obviously one of the metrics for them would be Their performance of their own employees Um ongoing, obviously they're not exempt from from absolutely well. So, okay Thank you Thank you, alderman hamlin alderman versi. Thank you just chairman, uh, tom. Thanks again You know, like we said in salary agreements too about getting this together The only question I had was as far as department heads go. Who's reviewing department heads? This is all for the department heads to review them their subordinates Who's reviewing our department heads? Well at this point in time the mayor would do that Because they report to the mayor with Obviously if we put this into place the mayor and I are going to sit down and together We'll put objectives together for his department heads because it has to start at the top and flow down If it fails there, the system will fail. Thank you alderman versi Alderman belt Thank you, mr. Chairman. Um, the merit increases are they going to be percentage based? Yes With one exception With one exception Generally speaking, they're going to be percentage increases Except when an employee reaches the maximum for his or her grade If they are at the maximum for their grade rather than increasing the maximum of the grade if we don't need to What the program calls for is a lump sum payment That they would get Well, the reason that I ask is because If if you have an employee making Say 20,000 a year And comes in at an above standard He could possibly make Get an increase of less than somebody who's making 40,000 a year and comes in at standard He would get a bigger increase than the person who would come in at above standard making less money. That's correct That's fair Well, I have to go back and say why are you paying the one person 20,000 and the other 140,000? Because it should be based upon the responsibilities of the job they have What if the person just started? And he's working his way up and he's doing a fantastic job Then he should be paid at an above average or outstanding increase But his increases aren't going to be as much as somebody who's making a lot more money Well, you're absolutely correct, but you have to understand that all Pay systems are based upon pay for the job So you the the greater the responsibility that the person has the higher the pay Why not just have a set fee or set Pay plan right across the board for Standard and above standard and above that Say a dollar two dollars three dollars an hour right across the board Everybody knows what kind of increase they're going to get if they do Certain amount of work. Well, you have that except this is a percentage instead of a flat dollar amount I understand what you're saying, but you know, I guess the argument to that is is a is a above average performer who is a department head the value of that performer As the same as a garbage collector who is performing an above average rate There's a great great much greater responsibility with somebody who's a department head Therefore the pay increase should be commensurate with the responsibilities and the performance You could you could set it up different departments also our department heads This is what they get, you know I'm just strictly opposed to the percentages. That's I never agreed with them. I don't don't agree with them. I I prefer across the board Well, that's the problem we had with the old pay pan because When we got into that situation, we had across the board increases, but there were people who weren't performing That or were at a higher level that the council felt didn't they didn't deserve increases They didn't need increases and that was primarily at the department head level But there was no vehicle or mechanism for them to deny an increase to that group of employees Because the plan called for across the board for everyone But you could still do it with merit increases With a flat fee. You don't have to do it with percentages Then I would challenge you tell me how I put a flat fee together for the various pay grades I'd have to sit down and look at it. It'd probably be based on a percentage Up front possibly But you take a look at it and then you can set it for each Because the person on the bottom of the salary grade is never going to Get to the same He will never get the same increases as somebody above him No, because the job the value of the job that he or she has Is less to the city than the one at a higher grade level And I'm only talking about the technical Technical parts of their job what they do their responsibilities and so forth. So everybody In each salary grade makes exactly the same amount today It depends upon where you know because today it's based upon Where you started your longevity and how many increases you've had and those kinds of things So if you're a truck driver You started a rate you get another increase after six months You get an increase after a year another year and another year and then you get longevity increases after five 10 15 and 20 So all truck drivers don't make the same amount. It depends upon not your performance It depends upon how long you've been here. I'm not sure I agree with that either Well, that's I wasn't I wasn't here when those contracts were for both of you Nor was I So Okay, thank you Thank you alderman belt Alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Chair Tom and just to kind of maybe follow up on alderman vernacharans Question about the compression How was the 10% determined The 10% really came about as a result of the former plan Okay, thinking that a 10 differential between The highest paid employee and their supervisor was fair and reasonable You can argue the percentage done till the cows go on terms of what it should be I guess I was just curious if there was some you know case history or or some kind of Or if it was just kind of a nebulous number based off of Most salary administration programs will talk about a 10% it's kind of a standard But there are enough that vary back and forth that it could be eight or it could be 12 depending upon the particular organization The one thing I do like about this The compression is it's I think under our current play plan. It's required Here there is an option For a supervisor if for example the council doesn't feel or salaries and grievances. I believe doesn't feel that You know that raise does not have to occur Based upon performance, correct That's I mean if you have a a substandard supervisor and just because somebody's making within that 10% It's not an automatic pay increase. I think that's a I think that's important Because I think we all know in various departments. There are some Supervisory challenges And I think this helps us gives us a tool to deal with that I have to share with you that we did some work with a compensation consultant out of madison and I sent this program to him about two months ago and he said If you get this adopted, you will be the first municipal municipality in wisconsin to have a pay for performance program So this is cutting edge for municipalities For those of you in the business world, this is something that you've had for years But in municipalities, this is cutting edge random Thank you. Thank you alderman hamlin alderman benachron to follow up on alderman hamlin's follow up of my original question To follow up to follow up to follow up. Correct Um, can you touch on the compression rates? I I found that that part of that to be on page 13 Um, but that specifically deals with the pay now if we are requiring The non-representative employees to make these contributions, obviously I'm assuming they're not making these contributions now. They're overall Compensation packages are going to be taking a hit based on that Is there Is there any thought or is there anything in place that we're looking at keeping that overall compression rate? I mean because again, if if our non-representative employees Are now paying these contributions and in the police department in the fire department the line officers or the union representative employees are not Pay wise their compression hasn't changed, but their overall compensation package obviously has changed. Is there any Have we Looked into or is there anything in place to address that? Well, let me give you a little history and then i'll address your question going forward When we did the the compensation study for the city and that was done about six months ago We took three categories. We took our non-represented employees We took our managers and supervisors and then we took department heads The non-representative employees were found to be at or above the average rate of pay for their jobs Which says that that group of employees are being paid fairly for the work they do The department heads were found to be at or close to the midpoint average rate for their jobs The supervisors were below So We know we've got a compression problem right up front when I went back and I looked at the overtime I found that in some cases not a lot But in some cases employees were making 10 to 15 percent more than the supervisor with the overtime So that's an area that we need to address very definitely but And this is the double-edged sword uh It was touched upon in terms of the quality of our supervisors and what we expect and I think We need to make those corrections, but at the same time we need to Significantly increase our expectations for our supervisors You know when you think about going forward the world and as of 1 1 2012 is going to be much different than it was in 2011 In terms of their ability to supervise their ability to manage the workforce and those kinds of things One of the things that we're going to change is the overtime and how it's paid at least That's proposed right now You know as we negotiate contracts I can assure you that's going to be on the table Because we're going to go to pay for anything over 40 not some of the overtime pay Regulations that are in contracts today But part of that is simply the supervisors managing the whole work process and quite frankly that has been Lackluster at best in the past So that's part of the problem because if you're not paying close attention to the overtime or stopping overtime It's just going to continue to roll and obviously it rolls up and people make a lot of money for Any times not doing what they should be So that's part of the problem going forward I think we need to do one assessment before the end of this year and that is again taking a look at our supervisors And the compensation for their people below them Consider what we're going to do with the overtime rate and the potential impact that has and where it makes sense make adjustments or plan to make adjustments in 2012 Based upon six months of performance again As far as i'm concerned this entire program is based upon Satisfactory or above performance if that doesn't happen if they can't make the adjustments that I think they need to make going forward Then they're not going to there's going to be a compression problem It's going to remain the compression problem is also going to be there if a supervisor performs at a below average rate And we continue to keep him in for her Correct, I I guess my concern is for the supervisor who is getting an outstanding merit-based pay Come January 1st they're going to start making these contributions or actually come In september they're going to start making these contributions and like I said their overall compensation compression rates are going to shrink You know this addresses the pay side of that which Is the base pay not dealing with the overtime issue? But I guess I would like to have some kind of an idea if there is a way to address that Whether that is increasing the pay because we're as alderman hammond pointed out We're required to have these contributions, but I think it is appropriate to look at At the end of the day when these contribution contributions come out These are coming off your check your check is going to get smaller and your your compensation rate Is is going to shrink and those compressions are you're not going to have those same compression rates Especially in the police department in the fire department from the represented to the non represented employees I don't disagree with you, but remember it's a timing issue. You're only talking about four months Because everybody else is going to begin the contribution as of january 1st So you're talking about if you have a truly a true compression issue. I'm going to talk about their base rate You know of pay then compare that to A total earnings overtime rate with their subordinates. That's what you compare Everybody's going to take a hit as of january 1st Because you have to pay for it by our administrators don't pay in No, no, okay So, you know depending upon how our negotiations go, but everybody else is going to take that pay hit Either in september or in january that's going to happen So I I hear what you're saying the problem is that we you know Do we do it up front And give the pay or do we take and put the program in place and say all right We'll take a look at the compression issues, but it would be done on an individual basis based upon performance And I really think it's important that we say to our supervisors the world is different And you have to change you have to step up and take on the responsibility which means managing your people effectively And managing your overtime and doing the kinds of things that you haven't had to spend time doing before It's an example in one of our departments employees don't want to come to work. So they call and tell a clerk I'm not coming to work and that's it Never talk to a supervisor supervisor doesn't know whether they're coming in until he or she walks in the door You know that's going to change employees will call their supervisor if they can't come to work If they're not excused by your supervisor, that's going to be considered as a wall Absence without permission arrives a lot leave I mean it's it's just the way it is How can a supervisor plan the work that they have to do if they don't know whether their people are going to be there? So anything else all of them? I think i'm good. Thank you all of them caught Thank you chairman Tom I guess my question is as far as the budget budgeting for this is this a line item then Every department had budgets for merit increases I know that jim has put in a merit increase dollar A tentative dollar in a budget right now But I We have to wait and see what's going to happen with the cpi as soon as we find out what that number is Right now it's hard. We're you know hovering around two and a half percent So obviously that's what we will negotiate with our unions because that's the only thing we can negotiate with them But more importantly How that's going to impact you know if we If we go in 2012 without any any increases Because of the financial situation of the city And we can agree to that you know then It's a different story But yes to answer your question there is there is money plugged into the 2012 budget at this point in time for merit increases Any other questions I've got a couple Tom On the performance evaluation form on page 21 and then on page 22 I read this over a few days ago, but just to refresh my memory will the supervisor Be filling out the form and go over it with the employee Is that the way it's going to work? Yes I know some businesses do it this way I knew I used to do this when I had when I had my small professional office is that I did a I did a performance evaluation on my On my office manager my secretary once a year and I gave her the performance evaluation to fill out And then she filled it out and then I filled it out separately and then we had a meeting And I found that Well, I found it kind of interesting to see where She thought her strong points were or weak points and then vice versa I thought it was a very useful tool just rather than having the supervisor fill it out and then have the Well as Edward thinking of doing it here Might be something to consider to have the employee fill it out Before the meeting and then have the employee and the supervisor kind of mesh and See what each other's thoughts are Effective supervisors will do exactly that You know When I came to design a performance evaluation form several years ago My boss asked me to do that in another lifetime and I said it's going to be very simple What have you done? Well, what do you need to improve upon and what are your goals and objectives for next year? Because that's really all that employees need to know But this is designed primarily for verbiage for dialogue You know, so there's not checking of boxes and all that kind of stuff simply because it's number one It's too easy to fill out number two. It's done at the last minute This requires some thought and it requires some dialogue between the employee and the supervisor And that's why I put this form together. It's fairly simple But it can be as long as you want it to be depending upon the employee and the performance levels and the objectives you're trying to accomplish So it gives the supervisor or the manager maximum flexibility in terms of what he's going to put in Could that could that be something that you might want to discuss when you have these meetings with the supervisors and department heads that That may be an effective way to do it. Absolutely hand it out first and then The employee fills it out then they fill it out then they have their meeting. This is a tool for them to use Then I have one other question When we get into these more sophisticated Performance evaluations and let's say an employee puts on there I want to move up in the department But in order to do that, I'm going to have to get an associate degree Or or I'm going to need my bachelor's degree to do that or I may need a master's degree Has it ever been? Discussed that the city start an employee tuition reimbursement plan like some corporations do I know is like for example some companies if you get an a you get a hundred percent tuition reimbursement A b 80 percent c 70 percent and below that nothing And then also usually written into those tuition reimbursement plans is that if you are going If you're going to participate in that as an employee You agree to stay with the city Two years or three years after you get your bachelor's degree so that the city would get some value As corporations do for helping that employee better themselves so that you take advantage of that education I know, you know budgets are tight and all that kind of thing, but I think Something that we may want to consider Well, one of our contracts already has that You know in the police department, but I agree with you and I think that's something that's sorely lacking in the city But frankly, you know with the economic situation we find ourselves in today You know, where do you spend the money and where do you get the money from? One of the focuses that I think you've already heard from the university of wisconsin whitewater Is an emphasis upon training and I think that's one of the goals that we have to set for us next year in terms of at least beginning citywide training for employees so That's I agree with you. I think that's something that we should we should put on the agenda if we can do Um, if we if we wait till money is available, it'll never be available So I it's going to be in my budget going forward whether it stays in there. We'll see but I think it's very important Thank you Any other questions from the committee alderman hammond Thank you again, mr. Chair. Just one quick question Is there a veto on this performance review again? We've talked, uh, you know some of our supervisors May or may not be real good You know my concern is you know a supervisor evaluating a An employee and everybody under his command or under his, um Supervisory range ends up with fives Is there a veto by the department head that says whoa, whoa, you know this You know, this isn't the case. I've seen this in particular employee work and it's certainly not a five Is there a a process of veto if you will actually there's two the department head is one And hr department is the second And if it gets really bad the salaries and grievance will be the third My my response to those kinds of things is If you only have $500 to give out and pay increases this year Tell me how you're going to do it and don't tell me you're going to give everybody 50 bucks You know you you have to make decisions Same thing should apply to your people, you know, I kind of I don't know if anybody's ever read the book by jack walsh about how g has done things but You know very similar the top 20 percent actually probably about the top 40 percent get raises the middle 20 percent You know, they don't get anything Bottom or the next 20 percent are just happy to be working the bottom 20 percent get cut And you know again, I kind of envisioned something like that where you know The merit raises are really designed for that top 40 percent or as they should be Right, you know, so and and that's how this is set up. But yeah If the department head or the manager wants to keep good employees, he better make sure he gives them raises My concern is again that you get a supervisor because this is going to be new to a lot of them They have to you know now actually evaluate based off of merit and they're say well Everybody's a five because I don't want any issues. That's right. You know and now you're you're giving Well, I struggled with the rating system on on the on page 22 because that's a five point rating system And a typical bell shape curve. It's up in three, you know, and I said But we settled for five as opposed to four Okay Thank you Thank you. Alderman Hammond. I have one more. I have Alderman bell, thank you, mr. Chairman on these evaluations the supervisor fills it out and Goes and gives it to the employee or does his manager review them first Typically speaking the supervisor fills it out discusses it with the employee and then it goes to the manager It could go to the manager first for his his review where I'm at We give out evaluations to the employees But beforehand our manager goes through them all to make sure You know, we're not Overrating the halo effect. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and that's wise You know At times You're supervising a crew of 20 people. Sometimes that gets a little bit laborious But I think for the first few times I would encourage them to do that Okay Thank you. You're welcome Thank you, Alderman bell. Um, I have one more thing, uh, tom and that is there was some discussion about Uh, this back I think in 2007 or 2008 about having a separate pay plan for Department heads and the And the non reps Do we have a pay plan for the department heads or are we going to be working on one? Where are we with that? Uh, I hadn't anticipated having a separate pay plan for department heads. It's all incorporated in here um To me they should be governed by the same policies and procedures that every other employee is So Now I noticed on the document it said here that this got a positive recommendation from the salary and grievance committee Uh, would it be helpful for you tom to get a Uh, some kind of a recommendation either yay or nay from the committee of the whole to be referred back to the council Did you hear anything tonight where you may want to tweak this a little further? Or could you tweak this even if we gave you a favorable recommendation tonight? I think the tweaking gym would and what I heard coming from the council would be part of the training that we would give supervisors and how they use the tools Uh To be honest with you, I'm not that familiar with the parliamentary procedure and what has to happen What I'm looking for ultimately is for the council to approve it So we can move forward because the training is going to take place At the end by the end of this year it has to And so the end of the year is getting very busy with a lot of things that have to happen. So Okay. Thank you. Is there any other Final questions or comments for mr. Rice Alderman red flesh. Thank you I was just going to make the motion to forward on with a positive recommendation to the common council We have a motion by alderman red flesh and a second by alderman hamlin to pass this on to the council with a favorable recommendation Is there any further discussion? All in favor opposed chair votes aye Thank you, tom Next we have on the agenda Before I make before I make this motion to go into closed session I think we're going to take about a five minute recess. We'll come back yet 7 30 because our television man back here has to make sure we're off the air before we go into closed session So we'll take a five minute break. We'll reconvene at 7 30