 Hi, Liesl, great to be here with you in this conversation. How are you today? Great, thanks George. Yeah, so I'm excited because this is, I think the third time I brought you on, every time it's been something I'm just excited to share with my audience. Yeah, I remember two other presentations. Anyway, those of you watching this, you're probably gonna enjoy this. And if you do, check out the other interviews I have with Liesl. So for those who don't know who Liesl is, I'm gonna just read her official bio and then we'll get into the conversation. So Liesl Tervisham helps sensitive souls and introverts who don't like the spotlight, yet need to be more visible, for example, in their business or in their work. And they want to feel safe to be seen. She helps them to do that. She helps them to work through the blocks and the fears that stop them and find and embrace their true authentic strengths instead. Two of her favorite tools are EFT tapping. A lot of you, some of you know what that is and Clifton Strengths, which provide a solid foundation for any introvert who wanna make a difference in the world in their unique and quiet way. So I will definitely have the links to Liesl's website and social media below or in the notes of the video, really looking forward to this Liesl. So one of the things that I think a lot of entrepreneurs don't realize is that when we, business of course is not, starting a business, having a successful business is not an easy thing. Otherwise everyone would have had one by now, right? Most people would prefer to work for themselves, determine their own schedule, et cetera. So a lot of people don't make it in business. I think it's not so much because of financial reasons or even strategy reasons. It's really something else, something deeper, right? And I think you are brilliant in helping people understand that and to heal those things. Tell, say more about this. I think this is a really, really important point. George, it's a very important point that I only realized as I was going on my own business journey they say that having your own business is the biggest personal growth journey you can ever undertake. And boy did I find that out personally. So last year in 2020, I did an extra course to empower myself to help clients in different ways about grief. And the person who taught us about this said this and it just made me sit up like, of course, why haven't I seen this before is we don't come to a grief journey as a clean slate. We bring all our other patterns into the grief journey. Now, ever we are in the rest of our life that's what we bring to the grief journey as well. And it struck me, but that's exactly how it is for our business as well. We don't come to own a business or become a business owner as a clean slate. We come with all our patterns, all the things that we usually do in life and we bring that into our business. And if I can give you a few examples because people might be wondering like, what? For instance, if we care so much about others that we don't at the same time care for ourselves, we bring that into our business and that can lead to huge suffering for those of us who care so much about our clients that we can't charge good rates or we put clients into our schedule where we actually are too tired to do it and we keep serving others. For instance, that's one place where it comes into. Another one is if we don't already have a good relationship with money, a clean, clear, healthy relationship with money in the rest of our life, if we then attempt to build a business and charge people money, that relationship with money is gonna show up in our business. And another thing is if we can't say no, for instance, if we hesitate to disappoint people, that pattern is gonna show up very clearly in our business as well and all those things can make it a little bit hard to run a healthy business. Absolutely, yeah, totally. And it's really, I mean, you do such a service for your clients, just even helping them to recognize what is getting in their way and that's aside from the strategy stuff. It's like that stuff, the strategy things, it's like actually relatively easy to learn but it's this emotional stuff that, well, we need to work on and it's kind of sometimes coming from years of baggage. So one of the things people might hear in personal development circles or maybe in business training circles is, well, just don't worry about it, just move on from that emotion and just focus on the good things. And maybe in some cases that might make sense but there's, well, say more about this, like why do a lot of people need to work on that instead of just quote unquote move on? Yeah, it's something very important that sort of always puzzles me to think that people think it's just that easy to say, I could, all that stuff in my past, I'm just moving on, I'm going forward with all that stuff just as if logically saying it to ourselves will work. We all know it doesn't actually work to just make that decision. It's lovely to think that we can, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Just a little metaphor that I want to bring in that helps us to really get what this emotional baggage is about. Imagine we're born as a baby and we're born with this little backpack. And as a baby, this backpack is empty. As we go through life and experiences we have, like there's a little hurt over here on the playground. There's a teacher that treats us in a horrible way. Every time we feel a big emotion and we don't deal with it in a healthy way, what we're really doing is that we're putting this in this backpack. And with each experience we go through as teenagers, young adults, older adults, we keep eating things in the backpack because we're not actually taught how to deal with these things. People say to us, move on, forget it. It's not that big. It's not a big deal anyway, just forget it. So we just keep on putting these things in this backpack because we haven't got a healthy way to deal with it. Now what happens is there are other people on the road with us. Our backpacks keep growing, but other people on the road are doing exactly the same way. So as we pause people, these backpacks bump against each other. It isn't the real you, the higher self, the beautiful part of you that is bumping against this stuff, this baggage in the backpack. Now every time we don't deal with an event or a situation that has hurt us, that's caused us some emotional harm inside, it's just in this backpack and it's waiting to bump against somebody else. And it's those things that eventually form our patterns because it gets stored in a part of the brain that we call the limbic brain, the emotional brain. And that part of the brain does not respond to logic or reason or saying words like, just forget it or I'm moving on now. All that stuff is stored back there and it bumps up against our clients, against our colleagues, against our mother and father. And so that is the kind of stuff that we really need to have a healthy way to deal with otherwise it hurts us. Wow. And of course, immediately this is related to our personal relationships too, and so much there. And so what you do, you clients are benefiting not just in their own business but in all of their personal relationships, being able to kind of deal with these items in the backpack. It's a really nice way of, that's nice metaphor. So the tool that you have to, that has worked so well for yourself and your clients is EFT and well, I think some people watching this know what EFT is, but I think they're probably within you and some people don't. So maybe you could just give us a quick overview of what it is and how you like using it to deal with these emotional items. The backpack, yes. George, it's so gratifying and heartening to me to see how many more people understand or know about EFT these days. So for those of you who don't know yet, it's EFT stands for Emotional Freedom Techniques. And it was actually created, put together from a few different things, Eastern and Western philosophies by an engineer called Gary Craig in the early 90s. And I find that amazing too, because he used some elements of, it needs to work for an engineer's brain. So it's a recipe that we can apply that should give us more or less similar results every time we apply it. So there's elements of Eastern and Western philosophies and the way that EFT really works is that part of the brain that I was talking about earlier, the limbic brain where all the emotional stuff is stored and if we don't process it, it affects us and other people. EFT talks to that part of the brain, the limbic brain. It calms down that part of the brain while we think about our issue, while we focus on, for instance, the disappointment we had with a colleague who didn't treat us right or the hurt we had within a relationship that is still affecting us in our relationships now. So when we apply EFT, it's a simple tapping motions on very specific stress relief points on the body. We apply the EFT, gently tap there, it literally sends calming signals to that part of the brain. So that when we think about our issue after that, then we think like, oh, I don't know why it bothered me before, I don't feel it anymore. Now there's a little caveat to that is that people sometimes learn it online for free and then they try it themselves and it might not be as effective because they don't really know the ins and outs and all the background and how to apply it really thoroughly. So if you've tried EFT and it didn't seem to work for you, please make sure you get to somebody who can show you how to be very thorough with it. We need to be specific, we need to target the right thing. And another little thing that I just wanna say is people often think that the magic is in the words that we use, they have to find the magic words. It's not in the words, it's in the actual tapping. So if somebody's actually experienced a difficulty motion and they can just sit there quietly by themselves, focus on the emotion in the body and just do the tapping in complete silence. And that's when the tapping really works, it's being focused in it and just do the tapping. So how I use EFT with my clients and myself is to think back about, well, what's the thing that I want to overcome now? I want to make a video for instance, but I'm too scared to do that. And then I'll think about where is the place in my body where it feels uncomfortable, I'll do some tapping and we also need to treat the root issues. And it's often an event in the past where we were judged, criticized, ridiculed, humiliated in front of people that makes that part of the brain go, no, don't do that again, it's not gonna have a good result. Because it remains everything from the past and it tries to keep us safe. And that's really what it's about is it's all about safety and EFT helps us to feel safer. Well, thank you for sharing that. You know, people who are watching this who maybe know a bit of EFT, you can tell that Lisa's an expert on this because she has really studied so much of this and worked with so many people on this. You have tapping sort of EFT kind of group experiences. You also do it one-to-one with clients. And you have an online course about this or several online courses, I think. And so one of the things that people don't maybe understand sometimes is why bring up that issue, that difficult issue rather than are we using, if, you know, why think about that negative motion? Why not think about a positive emotion or positive affirmation as we use? So anything you wanna say about that? Yes, that's a very important point, George, is some people feel uncomfortable bringing up something negative. They think that we've been taught by law of attraction. Don't think the negative thing. But you know what? The universe doesn't respond to the words that you say, it responds to the energy that you exude. And that energy is in you anyway, whether you say it out loud or not. So if you've got a bothersome thing sitting in your energy system, whether you talk about it out loud or not, it's there anyway. And that's what is sending out the signal and making us act in certain ways, which then gets certain results. So with EFT, it's like Louise Hay said it like this one time. We have to see the dirt in the room to clean it. And that's all we do with EFT is we see that the metaphorical dirt in some way that the bit of unclean places, we haven't cleaned inside that backpack yet. We have to see it, we clean it out by being really aware of it and conscious of it while we do the tapping. And then it's gone. Then we don't have to think about it again. So I hope that explains it a little bit. Yeah, that's really helpful actually. And one of the questions people have, I mean, just the other day when you were presenting to Master Heart Group, like, oh, how quickly does it work? Or maybe the question of like, how do I know it's working, right? How do I know it's working? And you have a really useful kind of three step way of thinking about progress. So I'd love for you to share that. Yes, it helped me to not think of my issues as it's on or it's off. It's yes or no, I have it or I don't. That's very black and white, like computer language, you know, zeros and ones. Life doesn't work in that way. So instead of people thinking, for instance, let's say I have a fear of putting out a video or I have a fear of writing my blog post and I'll be judged or criticized for that. Instead of thinking, yes, I still feel the fear. EFT didn't work. We can measure it in three ways. That's more useful. And I use the acronym DIF. So D is for duration. How long, if I think about writing this blog post, how long is the episode that I feel? Do I feel afraid for five minutes, five seconds, five hours, like I've upset the rest of my day by even thinking about it? So that's duration. And as we start working with EFT, we'll definitely notice the duration of episodes start minimizing. The I is for intensity. Do I feel like a nine out of 10 terrified if I think about this is it has come down to a five and now maybe it's a three off to working with some EFT. So that's a sign of progress. And the other one is F and that's for frequency. How often do I feel this fear? Do I feel the fear every single time? Is it maybe it's gone down to, oh my word, I didn't notice but I wasn't afraid to put out my blog post yesterday. But today I feel afraid. Maybe it's a new topic or something. So it's just if we mix in all of those measurements, it's much more useful to measure our progress rather than say, I still have the issue. How do we have the issue? That is so much more useful. That is so great. And a lot of people, I'm sure, I mean, you could use this actually in different areas. And so thank you for kind of sharing this with us. And that's a very helpful DIF, is it making a difference, right? So it's easier to remember. Well, I would love for you to share with those who are watching, how do you work with clients? You have a kind of a group, well, yeah, you have both group and one-on-one, but kind of share with us. And you have a program coming up as well. Thanks, George. Yes, I work one to one with clients. Then we can really go deep and go to individual things that is maybe not appropriate for groups and for workshops and so on. So I have, for instance, a program working specifically for Safe to be Seen. It's like a six-session package that people can work with me. And then we solve those issues and we help you to feel safe to be in the spotlight with your work so you can share about it. And then I have a group program coming up of eight weeks that starts somewhere towards the end of February to help sensitive introverts who feel shy or reluctant to charge for their services. That's definitely one thing that I've seen with caring people who feel, oh, they can't impose a, like they're charging too much on their clients kind of thing. So that's coming up and we will do lots and lots of tapping and also implement practical things because we have to get practical with this as well. And I'm also, like I mentioned earlier, I'm adding this grief branch to my work because it's something, just dealing with emotion is very comfortable for me. I feel it's my biggest strength, I would say is being able to hold emotion and whatever people bring. And last year, pandemic year, I just saw so many lost things happening. People have losses of a dream, loss of a career, loss of identity. If I had a career that didn't work out, that's an identity loss that needs to be worked with, otherwise it goes into this backpack. So those are some of the ways George and yeah, I just working with clients in this way is just my biggest joy. Yeah, yeah. And so you also have a whole other branch of your business that actually, I think one of our previous interviews, we went into click the strengths a bit more, but maybe you could just mention that here because that's also really helpful for a lot of people, that kind of work. Thank you, yes. It's kind of the two are sort of almost opposites. The one we look at the boss and we heal issues. The other one we look at, what is right with you as Clifton Strings? I help people to see what is right with him. And sometimes what's right with you is something that you think was wrong with you. And if we see it through the lens of Clifton Strings, it gives people an enormously different perspective about themselves. They get really deep, deep insights into why are certain things difficult for them and why are certain things really, really easy for them. And I believe with my whole heart, we need to be paid for the things that are easy for us. And if we don't even know what that is, where our strengths are, it's a bit of a journey to try and figure that out with trial and error and it can take really long. Whereas the Clifton Strings assessment clearly can give us the indication of yes, your strengths, yes, your weaknesses. So we can build a life on what brings us to an energy and fulfillment. Yeah, beautiful. Well, as we complete this interview, maybe you can give us some kind of parting encouragement. And one of the things that, you know, I mean, we didn't even get into your own story of growth at all, but people can ask you about it. But I mean, you are the kind of client that you work with. You are a sensitive, you are an introvert, and yet you've been able to show up on video, be interviewed, write blog posts, launch programs, create online courses. You've written a book or two. How many books have you written? Two, yeah. Two, yeah, exactly. And so how, how? You know, and of course it's the work that you do, you know, but tell us a bit. I mean, give us some encouragement there. Yes, I would love to give encouragement because where I am now is not where I started. I, when I wrote my first book, I started writing it in 2011 and I only published in 2013. Because I had all those fears like, who's going to read it anyway? What do I have to say that is not already been said? You know, it's just going to be, I'll have instant fame and I won't be able to handle all the fame. I'm still waiting for that to happen. Me too. That's the kind of exact thing that I have my clients with that I had to work through myself. The first time I had to do an interview about the book, George, like somebody wanted to interview me about the book, I was petrified. I felt like I was going to pass out. I was so terrified. So I just want to say that where we start out is not necessarily where we have to end up or vice versa, where you are now. Doesn't mean that's the end of the journey for you. There's so much growth. There's so much possibility of stepping little steps. That's what I say to introverts. We need to go little steps at a time. Don't put yourself so far out of your comfort zone that it freaks out this limbic system and it makes a complete, like, screech halt. We need to go small steps and so much as possible growth and expanding our comfort zone in small steps so that we can end up in a completely different place than where we start off. That's wonderful. That's perfect. Thank you so much for that. The website, Sleezel's website is SavvySelfGrowth.com. Of course, I'm having a link in the notes of the video. You can also find her at SavvySelfGrowth. Well, anyway, I'm going to have your social media links as well. Liesel, thank you so much for the work that you do, the way that you do it. Your clients, your students are lucky to have you. And yeah, I look forward to seeing how others who are watching this can benefit from your work as well. So thanks so much. Thank you so much, George. It's such a joy to be with you and really thank you for this work that you do.