 Ahead of the 2023 presidential and general elections, the National Consultative Front, the umbrella body of the Third Force movement has adopted the Labour Party as its party to align with for the elections. The decision was arrived at after 15 months of what the Third Force described as painstaking engagements with like-minded, allied political parties, as well as political alternatives to the ruling or progressive Congress APC and the People's Democratic Party PDP in the country. We're joining us to discuss this is political economist Professor Pat Utoubi. Thank you very much Professor for joining us. I'm glad to be able to join you. Great. Let's talk about the Third Force. So lots of people keep hearing about the Third Force and this is not the first time. We've heard of many other Third Forces, but this seems to be the Third Force that is now merging with the Labour Party. What actually makes this particular Third Force formidable as opposed to other people who have called themselves Third Forces, especially the NNPP? Well, the business of having an alternative political party platform has been ongoing for some time. It's been ongoing because most Nigerians who are savvy recognize that both the PDP and APC are one and the same party. And that in 22 years, both parties have inflicted so much damage to the possibilities of the Nigerian dream that there was need to think alternative. But you see, people are very slow to adapt into a new way. People sometimes feel unknown. But in the case of Nigerian politics, they are particularly wary of the fact that what is called structure tends to determine election outcomes. The fact that if you were the best candidate in the world and you did not have what they call structure, and what they call structure is really taking government money and using it to have people all around the country. In many parts of the world, people who run APC and PDP would all be in jail because they're taking public resources and using them to oil a machine around the country. But well, Nigeria is not quick to jail, those who should go to jail. So let's put that aside for now. So whenever quality candidates come out in parties that are not one of these two, people say, oh, they're great, would like to vote for them, but I'll waste my vote because they have no structure. So we have to think of how to provide structure. Outside of stealing government money and using it to spread around the country because that's the only way that structure has been built in Nigerian politics as we know it today. So we then came to a conclusion that the way to do that is to find civil society movements, organizations that have spread across the country, people who are committed to them on ground. And we came to the conclusion that the most effective of that kind of social movement is the labor movement. And so we began to talk to the Nigeria Labor Congress, we're going to talk to the TUC. We've had a series of meetings. I led a delegation two years ago to engage the central working community of the Nigeria Labor Congress. And we began to talk and it was getting more and more comfortable. And so we've got to a point where we have suggested a number of political parties that could be a vehicle. And some in the labor movement thought that they should make an effort to retrieve the labor party as it were. And it would seem with the effort of the current leaders of the NLC and Barista Femi Falano that that was accomplished. And the NC Front, which was working with a variety of other political parties, and then decided to move into the same house, if you will, with the Nigeria Labor Movement and the Labor Party without letting out from the Big Tent, which we have been building, and the Big Tent includes several other political parties. And we believe that more will get on this Big Tent, which is pitched on a moving train. As it gets to your station, you may join. I just want to just quickly come in there. When you say that others will join, you see, as we speak right now, I'm sure that you would have gotten wind of this, that a presidential aspirant on the platform of the People's Democratic Party has decamped, in fact, resigned from the PDP. And there have been people who have also been cautious as to who they support. Can you tell us if this third force will be wary of the people who have been in the recycled big political parties? Or will you throw open your doors in the bid to try to move the front and continue to build momentum as you get forward to 2023? We recognize that this is the Big Tent. It has a place for everybody, but how you play inside a Big Tent depends on your antecedents, depends on your values. The reason we are creating something different is not to have another PDP or another APC who wants something that is genuinely committed to service to the Nigerian people, wants something that recognizes that this narcissism, this self-love that makes the political class think more of itself and think more of democracy as a government of politicians, for politicians by politicians, that it needs to give way to a new kind of politics of government of the people, for the people, by the people. We clearly said to ourselves that there are three P's that are important if Nigeria is going to go anywhere. Those P's are essentially the P of production. We're going to produce the P of people, a P of power. We cannot produce because we don't have power. Nigeria is currently a major global disgrace as far as power is concerned and the APC and PDP governments in 22 years have managed to do very little about power and this is the challenge that we face in the country. So to put this in place, we are going to welcome good people who come, but we welcome only those who we believe, who welcome everybody or only give the front row to people who think will make a major difference. How do you, I'm going to rephrase my question again, how do you guard against people who might be aggrieved from the major political parties, who some people would term as the money bags? It's a question I ask the smaller or the other political parties, I'd rather not call them small. It's a question I ask the other political parties, how do you guard against these people hijacking your party and the good intentions that you say you have on Nigerians? You will not be able to hijack that we're guarding against that. How are you guarding against it? Because, I mean, we see, for example, other parties were very clear criteria, leadership criteria that we have laid down, very, very clear. And unless you meet those criteria, you will not come to the front row. You will be there, but you will be somewhere on the back seat as you, in Biobar culture, you may move to the front row. But if you come in here, you come into the back seat. Let's look at the capabilities of these Third Force to go anywhere in 2023. Again, just as you've said, Nigerians might be looking elsewhere for a leader that would be able to steer the ship in the right direction. But is the Third Force ready to be able to upstage both the APC and the PDP? I mean, we see what's happening now, the shifting of dates back and forth. We're still seeing a lot of disagreements here and there. What difference will you make? One, secondly, how powerful and strong strategic will you be by 2023 to be able to win these elections that you are getting ready or gearing up for? Our movement is committed to new ways. And amongst the disrupting strategies we adopted is that we want to bring in new voters. We are part of this movement, the 40 million vote initiative. We're trying to ensure that we bring in new people who have never voted before, who have different kinds of commitment than those who go and sell their votes. This is why we are going to be a kind of a different thing because our power will come from these new voters. And so we are going to be a direct an outright formidable where we move in to blow these fellows out of the political arena. Now, let's talk about the voters themselves. But we also, by the way, have what we call the RPDP and RAPC. We founded already a group, a group in the PDP and one in the APC, who would you call the RPDP and RAPC, the righteous APC, righteous PDP. And members of that group will ultimately move into our parties in this big tent. Okay. I want to talk about the voters quickly. But they're the most important in all of this. They're the ones whose votes you need. How will you be able to convince the average person? I like the fact that you said that you have the labour movement with you. We know what's happening with students now and university students are at home. The government and ASU are still at loggerheads. We're seeing a lot of things that are going wrong. That is all fair and great. But then we also have a voting public that needs a lot of convincing, especially just as you mentioned about structures, because people are mostly interested in the local elections, in their local governments, in the awards. How much representation will they be able to see in those areas that will be convincing enough to make these people want to cast their votes for you? Yeah, this is precisely what we are trying to do. We try to get a number of social movements committed to developing new quality candidates to go into public life, such as obviously fixed politics. Now, we are encouraging a bunch of bright young new people to run from all those levels all the way to the local governments. And what we expect to do is to have a real disruption of politics in Nigeria by bringing in a broad group of smart, high values and socially committed political actors. They will be new, they will be fresh, they will not have been contaminated by the habits of the PDP and the APC. And so our country can begin afresh, because that's what we need to press the reset button and get Nigeria to begin afresh. Can that really happen in 2023? Do you have enough time? Because the elections are really around the corner. Do you have enough time to do all that? Because that's the major concern. In fact, we have too much time. You know, in most parts of the world, the election season is less than three months. And we have nearly a whole year to elections. In the next week or two, we'll begin to bring these young people into special development programs. And as they go out there, sound different, focus on a key set of values, policy ideas that we have agreed to that will radically turn Nigeria's fortunes around. And let me give you a couple of those ideas, for example. One of the biggest challenges facing us is unemployment. I mean, our country is literally all this unrest everywhere, unknown gunmen, unknown gunmen, who could this, most of these problems come because people are not engaged. People are angry. And people are letting out their anger on society. And so they are easy recruits to people who have all kinds of one, several ideas. But we have an initiative, a plan, that within a week of being inaugurated as president of this country from our team, we will announce an immediate recruitment of every unemployed graduate in this country. Is that not a tad bit unrealistic, Professor? Is that not tad bit unrealistic? I mean, even the United States, as unionists, cannot necessarily learn in this country. If you listen, you will learn. Listen, listen, listen. The world is in crisis from the environment, okay? We are a major hook for redeeming the world as being in the forest belt. There are billions of dollars out there for people who have a strategy for doing this. But if we take all the unemployed people and form them into a green army, we can immediately access a couple of billion US dollars. That's available right there. And these young people who get into this green army will from 7.30 a.m. to 12.30 p.m. every day green up the environment. Just go and do river remediation, do trees, do all of these things. And their payment will come from this money coming from abroad. Between 12.30 and 4.00 p.m., they will go to school and develop real skills, different from their degrees in history and sociology and all of that. Within one year, they will be all skilled up. They would have grown a couple of million trees. And as we create new industrial parks, they move into those parks. So listen, you all should learn to listen. You've been talking to people who don't think for too long that it makes it difficult for you to listen to people who think, okay? I'm most interested in, I mean, this is a very interesting idea, very bright, but I'm talking about the reality of recruiting these people. I'll tell you why. Already, government has so many people in its employ. Salaries in some states are still not being paid. People are being owed. Pensions are being owed. We're yet to deal with that. And then you intend to employ a billion- You're talking about- Sorry, Professor. Can I just ask this question so you can answer me? And I'm talking about the fact that we're already in a crisis state. And then we're recruiting one billion, as you have said, or maybe more young people. How many of these young people are even willing to do these jobs? Are you going to coerce them to join you in the Green Army? The reality on ground is that you have a great idea, but how walkable is it? Completely walkable. Have you heard of a man called Inazio Lula da Silva? He was president of Brazil, and he might be back as president of Brazil very soon. Inazio Lula da Silva changed the course of Brazil's history through a series of initiatives that have been referred to as the conditional cash transfer system. Now, this idea was kind of domesticated into the APC manifesto by myself. And this is what has been implemented in this trade-off money. But if not done in the way that the Silva implemented it in Brazil, and it has become a dream, become a political dream pipe. And we're saying that we take the same ideas on a matter that is bothering the entire planet and they have money put aside. So the money comes. This young graduate that doesn't want to be part of the Green Army cannot be a wise person, does not want to work. So we can leave him or her aside and take those who want to work and put them to work. And as they are working, they are learning. And within one year, because it's not their permanent life. Within one year, they would have done a huge job on the environment. They would have learned a major skill and they're onto a new kind of employment not heard by government. That's why they couldn't have listened to these ideas through. Okay. Well, Professor Otomi, unfortunately our time is spent, but we will be following up on the third force and all the activities going forward. Thank you so very much. Thank you very much for speaking with us, Professor Pat Otomi is an economist. We want to thank you very much again for being part of the conversation. And that's all we have on the show tonight. We want to say tomorrow is another day as we talk for development on plus politics. So keep it tight with us. I'm Mary Annacle. Good night.