 Cinema has always been instrumental in the Western spread of the martial arts. From Bruce Lee to The Karate Kid to John Wick, several generations of martial art students have found their inspiration in the movies. But what is it about the marriage of martial arts and cinema that makes it so appealing? We have Derek Wayne Johnson with us today. He is a fellow dedicated martial artist as well as an accomplished filmmaker. King of the Underdogs and 40 Years of Rocky are just a sample of some of his excellent work. I highly recommend those documentaries and we have provided links to them in the description below. Today, Derek is going to speak with us about the magical blend of karate in the movies. For our Patreon and YouTube members, we have an exclusive episode with Derek as we go into an off-the-matte interview. Yes! Dude, oh my god, okay, yes! Oh my god, I'm so glad you brought this up, so. Join us on Patreon or YouTube memberships to view it today. Derek, can you tell us a little bit about your martial arts background and how it impacted you growing up? Absolutely, I'd love to. I have a kind of an extensive martial arts background as far as years. I'm going into my 25th year, which is crazy to think about. But I basically was a young kid and I had a huge interest in the martial arts. And a lot of that came from movies because that's the only way I kind of really knew about it. And so I would mimic what I saw on the TV. And then I went to the local library and I found these books. So I would teach myself, this is pre-teen, teach myself what I saw in the books. You know, the how to do karate type books. And my dad would show me some self-defense, but when I was 13, I caught a flyer at school. Now, I'm from a small town of 6,000 people, so there's not a lot of options. And I caught this flyer and I immediately signed up. I was 13 and I've been with that school ever since. I always believe that if you love something, you don't necessarily find it. It finds you. And the martial arts found me and I was ready and still going 25 years later. It's weird seeing that everybody you start off with slowly drop off and see the revolution of new people come in. And basically the turnover is really high in the martial arts. So it's kind of a weird experience being the one stable element there, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, now my school is rather large. So in my instructor, his name is Robert Lamont, and he is now a seventh degree's Kyoshi, a wonderful achievement. He was basically my age when I started now that I am now. And I don't know, it's kind of cool to just have this Mr. Miyagi for 25 years of my life. And, you know, he told me he said it's very sad to see the turnover as you talk about, to see students come and go. But he's so pleased for the ones that have stuck around. And I was gone for a while. I was, you know, college and my career. And but yeah, it's it's really cool to I just talked to him the other day and he's still kicking awesome. Well, the important thing is you kept coming back. Yes, it just it's in me. I can't I can't not be a martial artist. I just I can't. Can you tell us a little bit about what you trained in? What was the style? Yes, so I've trained in American karate and it's part of the Superfoot system. Bill Superfoot Wallace, whom obviously you've had on your show. But it's it's American karate and it comes from Shodakon, Kenpo, etc. You know, it has roots there and it's just kind of an Americanized form. I mean, we're not traditional and we're not modern. That's what we always kind of say. We kind of take, you know, tradition and we take modern and we kind of ever evolve into American karate. So that's that's the style that I've chosen on 13. Or as I said earlier, it chose me. You began your film career both in front of the camera and behind it. How do you describe that transition to going more to writing, producing and directing? Well, I always say the stupid little saying. But when I was a little kid, I wanted to be Indiana Jones, right? Then when I was an actor, I wanted to play Indiana Jones. But then I realized as I grew up that I wanted to be the guy that made Indiana Jones. Now, what that means is I always was an actor and a filmmaker starting out. I knew I wanted to be both. I wanted to be the next Orson Welles. Well, I'm not and I never will be. I'm Derek Johnson. And when I had that realization that acting was more therapy for me at the time and a good networking tool and it was something I could work some emotions out with. I was really a storyteller. I was always a director, always a writer, always a producer. So acting got my foot in the door, but I saw the transition happen over time over the course of several years. And now I look back and I'm like, man, I so glad I'm not acting anymore. I do miss it, the therapeutic aspect of it. But that's kind of how it happened. You kind of grow into who you are. And I am a filmmaker. I am a director. It's funny. I like that you mentioned Indiana Jones, because as I understand it correctly, growing up, Raiders of the Lost Ark was your holy grail inspiration. What drew you to like what inspiration? What did you learn from that? Well, I just I my mother bought Raiders of the Lost Ark on VHS and I still have it. The tape is like completely the covers long gone. I've rebuilt the tape with so many different parts of other VHS tapes throughout the years, you know, before DVD. And I don't know this relic of my youth is just still exists. And I would wear that tape out. I would watch it so many times. And as a young, again, a preteen, this was the film that I knew there was something different about this film and how it made me feel. And I would study it and I would learn a lot by watching this. Again, pre-internet, it just kind of, I don't know, it inspired me. And I still have that tape. I always say, if I ever know I'm going to meet Steven Spielberg, I'm going to have that tape on me and have him sign it. Like that would just be everything to me. OK, your two favorite martial arts movies. One of them is a guilty pleasure that you like it just because it's fun. And the other one draws you in because of its story. What are they? OK, I don't think it's a guilty pleasure. It's just a pleasure. And that's blood sport. Naturally, it's so good. So amazing. That's the movie I put on in the background when I'm like, you know, cleaning my house or working out or whatever and I need something on. That's the movie I put on. I've seen it hundreds of times. But if I said a guilty pleasure, I might go with The Last Dragon just because it's so fantastical. I was actually jamming to the soundtrack before this interview. But story, I got to go with The Karate Kid, which I don't even I don't even consider it to be a martial arts film. It's a drama. It's a love story between a mentor and his, you know, his this this kid, Serge at father and this kid. But that's why it works. You don't go back to it for the martial arts. You go back to it for that connection. And I feel like that movie obviously is why I'm a martial artist and also why I'm a filmmaker. I love The Karate Kid. That I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, that's also my personal favorite movie. We've talked about that at length. And speaking of The Karate Kid, the director at John G. Abelson, he's known for movies like The Karate Kid and The Rocky. And you've had a pretty close relationship with him, right? And how would you describe your friendship? Well, oh, man, John was, you know, I was John was in my life for the last five years of his life. And we became really close. We became friends. He became my mentor. He was already my cinematic hero, Rocky and The Karate Kid and my two favorite films of all time. I studied his films. I there was just something intriguing about this guy with the weird name John G. Abelson on screen. And so he was a dear friend and again, a mentor. Actually, I remember saying this at his memorial, something along the lines of, and I would say this to him and when he was alive, but he had the wisdom of Miyagi with the temperament of Mickey Goldmill. I mean, he was just totally this fascinating guy. And I miss him dearly. One of your recent projects, King of the Head of Dogs, goes into his career as developing all these character pieces and underdog stories. What inspired you to create that project? Well, I've always had an affinity for obviously John Abelson in his films and the underdog. So it was so crazy how this came about. I was on YouTube one day and I was just kind of watching interviews with certain directors. And I came across John Abelson in an interview from like the 80s. I looked at the name, like the username or whatever. And it was Abelson, whatever. And I was like, ooh, this must be a Super Abelson fan to create a YouTube page with his name in it. Then I clicked on it and I realized, no, no, no. This is John Abelson's YouTube page. This is him. So I don't know if you can still do it in YouTube, but I sent him an email through YouTube, like a DM. And it was half fan and half professional, I guess. And the next day I get this email in my actual email. And it said, yo, Derek, what can I do for you? And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. My favorite director just literally emailed me back. And we started up this email chain, I guess, the correspondence. And I offered him a couple of scripts, which he turned down to direct, one of which he said, send me a check for $1,000 if I like the movie, I'll direct it. If I don't, I'll script doctor it for you. Is that worth a thousand bucks? I said, yeah, send the script, send him a check. He calls me. Like two weeks later, he's like, Derek, get a pen and paper ready, your script sucks. So let's talk about it. And for two and a half hours, we talked about my script and he sent it back to me and it had notes on every page. So he followed through as a man of his word. It was worth $1,000. Well, six months later, I fly out to LA. I wasn't living there at the time to meet him. And again, for three hours, here we are, like talking about everything. And we shared a tear because we talked about the emotional scene of Mr. Miyagi being drunk and wearing his uniform and how it was such a touching scene when Daniel bows to him. I cried, John cried. It was very beautiful. I offered him another script, he turned me down. So now I've offered him two scripts, one of which I paid $1,000. I fly home and then it hit me. I call him, I said, John, if I can't make a movie with you, I wanna make a movie about you. And he goes, you wanna work with me, kid, you're in. And then I had to follow through and I made John Shaggy, I was the king of the underdogs for the next three years of my life. I worked on that film hand in hand with John and all these wonderful people from his movies. And it was just a crazy experience, but that's how it came about. And I'll personally vouch for like, I watched that documentary and that's, actually that documentary was inspiring me to reach out to you in this interview because it was just so well produced. So if any of you guys out there have not seen this yet, I highly recommend it. It's king of the underdogs and we'll put a link in the description so you can find that. But what was the experience like now working with these actors and these people that were part of this influence for you? Wow, it was surreal. I hate to use that word, it's such a trite word, it was surreal. It was like, you know, one minute I'm just emailing with John Ableton, the next minute I'm on set with Sylvester Stallone and Ralph Machio and all these people that I grew up idolizing and loving these films. And I realized that I'm exactly where I wanna be and where I need to be. It was like, you know what? I am the guy to tell the story. And it felt good, it felt great and they were very welcoming. And I don't know, it was just this really cool experience became friends with most of them and still am with some and it was just really wild. And I remember it was kind of that shift in my career where it was a fan, I was a fan and a filmmaker and they merged and that was really cool. That was really, really cool. So now we're starting to see a bit of a revival of the underdog tale with, you know the new Cobra Kai series. Have you seen the show and how do you think it compares to the original Karate Kid films? I have seen every episode and I love Cobra Kai. It's wonderful. How does it compare? Obviously, okay. What I love about it is you get, they do the fan service, right? There's the nostalgia. They take care of all of us old guys that grew up watching it and love the movies, right? And then they did this whole other thing where they've captured today's youth and they're bringing them in and giving them more of a contemporary story and excitement for them. What's so smart about that is, is it brings everyone back to the original Karate Kid series. You know, it has the heart with today's modern excitement, but it all comes back to John Abelson's films. So I love what they've done. I'm actually jealous. I wish I could direct an episode, that would be wonderful. So how do you think John would feel about the show, say in the direction that the characters have taken? I think he would love it. I really do. He was a funny guy. I remember it was me and John and William Zapka and Martin Covey at lunch. And this was a few years before Cobra Kai even existed. And they were talking about just what if we did this, what if we did that, you know, on a completely different topic. And again, this has nothing to do with the Cobra Kai series now. But just to see those guys talking about it and reading like, what would Johnny do? And what would Chris do? And what would everyone be like now? And he just lit up and he was very excited at any sort of like continuation of the story. And you kind of saw that in the music video, Sweep the Leg Johnny that Billy, I think he directed it and acts in it and whatnot. You kind of saw that continuation there like 10 years before Cobra Kai came out. So, and of course, a few years later, all of a sudden like, you know, John passes away and then the very next spring Cobra Kai exists. And it's like, whoa, he would have loved this. So after you did King of the Underdogs, I understand that Sylvester Stallone personally reached out to you to direct his Rocky documentary. Can you tell us a little bit about 40 years of Rocky? It was so cool. I had interviewed Sly for King of the Underdogs. And like he invited me and my producing partner, Chris May and Frank Stallone, who also did a documentary on to his house to watch King of the Underdogs. Sly was interested in seeing it. And he loved it. And like as the credits are rolling, Sly leaned into his chair and was just like, I have an idea. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, and he pitched this idea to take all of this behind the scenes footage that John had shot 40 years ago on the set of Rocky and turn it into a documentary. And Sly's like, I'll narrate it and I want you to do this. And it was just really kind of crazy because literally the credits of King of the Underdogs were scrolling as Sylvester is pitching me four years of Rocky, which we eventually did. And it actually came out in the 44th year, but we just didn't change the title and so whatever. And it just was a snowball effect. And I've worked with Sly on four different documentaries at this point. So yeah, really cool. Once again, credit to John Appleton for none of this would have happened. I just edited a documentary for Sly that's coming out this year that has to do with the Rocky four directors cut that's coming out. We put the teaser or actually Sly posted the teaser several months ago on his Instagram, but I edited that for him. That was really fun. Yeah. When we're looking at martial arts in the movies, they seem to have gone through several different eras. So like in the sixties, you've got like the James Bond judo chopper was cat. You had, you know, foot in the camp in this, but with some gentlemanly fighting. Then we got into the seventies and eighties, we had the one man army and even then the underdog tales. And in the nineties, we had like the matrix like the high concept, martial arts films. How would you describe the phase martial arts films are in today? You know, I don't know. And the reason is, is I don't really watch modern martial arts films. It's nothing against them. I just, I just don't because I think that you mentioned it in the nineties they got so out there. And it just kind of, I don't want to say it turned me off. I mean, that stuff's awesome because it's a movie, but I haven't really found anything modern to where I would go, ooh, I need to watch that a hundred times. Obviously there's some really cool stuff out there. But I also know that there are some films that do try to make it more practical and realistic while some of them are still crazy, crazy awesome. I do think that they focus more on what looks cool as opposed to story. I'll say that. Like this one trend I kind of picked up on and I would use John Wickes an example is that they've really stepped up the intensity of the fights, but I've noticed that they're resorting to a lot of, like you're saying more realistic stuff, like more jiu-jitsu, more going to the ground, more smaller techniques versus like the large crank kicks or the fantasies, like a mortal combat. It seems to be a lot more realistic techniques, but like cranked up to 11. You know, that's actually good. I can't believe I didn't think of John Wick as you said that, but you're totally right. It's they are doing quicker, faster hardcore movements and taking their opponents out in a really realistic slash cinematic way. So I will give them that, no doubt. Is that gonna last? I don't know. Is that the new thing? I don't know, but it's pretty cool because they are finding that, I guess, that mesh, that middle ground of what looks cool, sounds cool, is cool and what would really happen. You know, I think it's also full circle. I mean, you know, you look at the karate fighting in Cobra Kai, I mean, it's just balls to the wall, like insane in some scenes, right? And then in some scenes, it's like, oh, that's pretty practical. So I don't know, I mean, it's like, I guess Cobra Kai is giving us one thing and John Wick is giving us another and maybe I guess that's a good thing. And another trend I've been kind of noticing is, you know, we've got Sylvester Stallone and Schwarzenegger still doing their thing. We've got Liam Neeson, we've got Jason Statham tearing it up and even going back to Cobra Kai, we've got Ralph Macho and William Zabka. There seems to be a focus on like a lot of the older actors still doing these action scenes. Do you think that that's just writing on nostalgia or do you think there's a deeper message that we can find in that? Ooh, I don't know, maybe both, clearly nostalgia. There's no doubt about that. I mean, but I mean, cause that's kind of like the high point of action was the 80s, right? So that's when it became so almost absurd, but in a cool cinematic way. And I think that the people that are in control now, the writers and the producers and the directors are of the age that come from that and want to see that, you know? So that's kind of why that's coming back, total nostalgia, but also it was just really good. It was really good back then. Deeper message, that's interesting. I mean, maybe, you know, you've heard of old man strength, right? It's real, it exists. Remember when you're like, how does my dad or my grandfather or my uncle, how does he, how's he able to do that? I can't do that. You know, I want to see that older guy still kick butt because he can and he will. And you know what? He's probably a little bit like as a martial artist myself, I look back at 20 year old me. I was clearly faster and thinner. And, but now I look at me and I'm like, I could kick the crap out of 20 year old me. You know what I mean? So maybe that has something to do with it as well. I don't know, but it's pretty awesome. I love seeing those guys still kicking butt. If you had a choice, if you could steer martial arts films into any particular direction, where would you go? You know, I would probably focus more on story. You know, if you look at the Bruce Lee film, so raw, I mean, they're just in your face, just beating the heck out of these guys. And then you have again, going back to the karate kid, this story, these relationships. I would like to steer it to maybe have that John Wick approach, right? But with the good heartfelt story. That's why Rocky works so well. It's not a boxing film. It's a love story. It's a drama with boxing in it. So that's what takes you back. That's kind of where I would like to see martial arts films go. Is to take that rawness of the Bruce Lee films with the heart of the karate kid and maybe the realness of John Wick as far as the techniques and whatnot and make this really good heartfelt, realistic martial arts film. Maybe I should direct that next. I don't know. So if you were going to choose the different martial art, if you were going to try your hand at a totally different martial art today, what would it be? Well, I think you know what the stock answer is for us karate guys, because you're doing it yourself, but it's Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I think that it's a wonderful martial art. I've sat in on some classes and I've toyed with it and whatnot. And I just think that it's an amazing, realistic martial art. So definitely jiu-jitsu, because I'm a striker. Obviously karate, we do takedowns and manipulations and we do ground fighting. We do all of those things. Karate I think is a complete art. It's in my opinion. It doesn't just focus on hands or feet or grappling. It's complete. However, if you, what's so great about MMA is it takes a focus on boxing, takes a focus on Muay Thai, it takes a focus on grappling, et cetera. And putting those things together, it just makes you even more complete. So I think that for me personally, being a striking martial artist more so than a ground fighter, definitely jiu-jitsu. It's something that I really, really want to do. Again, karate for 25 years, boxing, kickboxing, all that kind of stuff. It's been great, but I got to go to the ground. I got to do it. That's what's up. That's what's happening next. Can you tell us about your new project that you're working on, Bloodstreams? Bloodstreams, yes. So Bloodstreams is important to me because it's my return to narrative feature films. I've done, you know, the documentary thing for the last several years. John G. Alton, King of the Underdogs, 40 years of Baraki and birth of the classic. Stallone Frank, that is. Now Bloodstreams brings me back to a fictional story. And it's been wonderful. And actually, when we're done with this interview, I'm going back to editing it. We just shot it last month in Texas. And it stars Han Soto, who was in Cobra Kai in some of the episodes. And Yuji Akamoto, who played Chosen in the Karate Kid part two in Cobra Kai. He's in it. He does a fantastic job as our villain. I mean, very fun. I've known him for about seven years because I interviewed him for King of the Underdogs. And it was really cool to work with him. Holland Haley. Not a lot of people know about Holland yet, but you will, she's fantastic. Brad Mall, he was a soap star and he's a good friend of mine and a mentor. He was on General Hospital for 20 years. He's in it. Really interesting cast. And it's a crime drama thriller. Takes place in Texas, my home state. And it's coming out in 2022. But you're going to see Yuji Akamoto in a really, really cool, very cool role. I mean, in my opinion, my favorite role of him since Chosen. I cannot wait to see that. That sounds excellent. So for anyone watching, we're going to put a link to Derek's website in the below so that way you can check out and keep up to date with his projects and also have access to the other documentaries he's produced. I can't recommend them enough. And Derek, I just have to say absolutely, thank you so much for joining us today. Been wanting to talk to you for a while. I'm a fan of your work. I appreciate your love for the martial arts. And the fact that you take these two crafts that you love that you've merged them together and you find inspiration for both and pass it on is just indescribable. So thank you so much for joining us today. Can't appreciate it enough. Thank you. Again, huge fan of you. Love what you're doing for the martial arts. Love your channel. And just thanks for having me on. It's so great to talk movies, martial arts, and yeah, man, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please visit the links in the description below to see some of Derek's films. If you are a fan of the Karate Kid or Rocky, then I cannot recommend King of the Underdogs or 40 Years of Rocky enough. He is a true craftsman as both a filmmaker and a martial artist.