 use he they pronounce. I'm Nathan, I use he he pronouns. I'm Oscar, I use he he pronouns. Welcome to All Things LGBT Plus Youth Edition. Today is a trans-specific episode and it is Monday, April 30th. Alright, our first topic is coming out. So I think what we're going to do is maybe share individual experiences as well as tips for other trans kids watching this. Alright, Oscar do you want to go first? Sure. So I have been out as trans for I think three and a half years maybe, maybe a little less, I'm not really sure somewhere in that area. And originally I didn't come out as trans, I just came out as gender nonconforming because I just didn't really know. Not to say that being gender nonconforming is just a transitional phase because there are people who come out and they're nonconforming and that's their gender and that's just that's it. But for me personally I just was trying to figure out where I stood and where I was along the gender spectrum. And so at first I didn't really change my name, I just kind of asked for different pronouns to be used for me occasionally. I didn't really specify if I wanted exclusively they them. So at first I just went by she her and they them and so nobody ever really did anything other than she her and my dead name. Okay, so my coming out experience was kind of generic for the trans experience, especially living in a liberal state. My parents are cisgender heterosexual people who come from cisgender heterosexual people. So they didn't super understand what I was going through. I had to educate them about pronouns and about gender because they had a very hard time understanding and because at first when I came out I was using exclusively they them pronouns and they didn't understand just the typical but that's plural. You're not more than one person which isn't technically the grammatically correct definition of that pronoun but I had to acknowledge that they needed to learn that and so I had to talk to them about that and they came around eventually but they had a hard time with me wanting to change my name because I'm named after a lot now but I was named after people, a person in my family and so my mother kind of took it personally that I was changing my name even though it wasn't personal but she sort of took it personally at first and so we had to talk through it before she let me change my name and then it took a bit longer for her to let me change my name legally because she just I guess had to mourn that name which sucked for me but that's how cis people are and so I mean for the most part my parents were pretty accepting they wanted to they wanted to learn but because they were cis and come from cis who also came from cis people they didn't really have any exposure because my dad's parents are very conservative and so they never would have let him be exposed to that and my mom grew up in upstate New York so she wouldn't have been exposed to that whether her parents would have allowed it or not so they didn't really know where I was coming from and they came around eventually and we no longer talked to my dad's parents because I'm trans they we came out to them and there was a whole problem and my because they quote don't agree with that lifestyle and it's not a lifestyle and it also is it something you can agree or disagree with it with it's like hello I am trans on I am a human being I don't agree with that lifestyle that's that's not really a thing that you can say well I guess you can but it doesn't make any sense and so my immediate family was pretty accepting but my extended family was and is still struggling at least my my mom's parents make an effort they call me Oscar they use he can pronounce they mess up sometimes because they've known me for they knew me for 13 years before I came out and changed my name as my dad name and I don't and I only ever see them like twice a year so for what they're getting they're doing a good job but my dad's parents are not doing great they make no effort whatsoever actively speak out against like organizations that would support me and my identity and actively support people who harm trans people and my grandfather has never called me Oscar ever and my grandmother has called me Oscar maybe twice and has never used my preferred pronouns for me so we don't really talk to that side of the family anymore which was hard because we grew up with them obviously but it was ultimately beneficial to me and my mental health to not talk to them anymore yeah that's that's about all I got I don't want to be too long-winded so that was that was it is it my turn yeah I think so all right cool um I have been out as trans for two years I think two years in February um and I was not one of those kids who like knew from the start that I was trans I was always very much like I was really uncomfortable for like the majority of my childhood and I didn't have a reason for it and I couldn't put a name to it until like I was older and I was like maybe it's because I'm not being feminine enough and then I was like when I get my period I'll finally feel comfortable in my body which was not true and then like when I go up a cup size I'll feel comfortable in my body or when I like cut my hair this way or get these certain clothes I'll feel comfortable in my body and it all just like culminated into being really really uncomfortable for the majority of my life and also like not being able to because my brain doesn't like that like I don't have a lot of memories of my childhood which sucks but I in eighth grade shadowed someone at Montpelier High School because I wanted to go there and they had two trans friends and it was the first time I had met trans people my age and I'm still very close with both of them and I was like oh this is an option for me that I can have like people like me like people my age like this exists and immediately my brain was like oh this is an issue that we have to think about and panic about for some time and so I like unconsciously panicked about that for three months and then I started high school and I remember having a conversation with my friends like very early in the school year we were talking about gender and I was like yeah I'm I'm definitely a girl and I had like a physical disgust reaction to that and then like a week later I was like hey can you guys like use they them pronouns for me just for like a little bit to try it out and they're like okay sure and I ended up coming out first as like genderqueer and I would oscillate back and forth between like having girl days and boy days and both days and eventually the girl days just stopped happening and like I got increasingly like unhappy with the definition of being genderqueer and I got really really depressed and I like dropped out of school and I was out of school for probably three or four months because I was depressed and suicidal and then I got really suicidal and then I went to this hospital diversion program for at-risk teens in Burlington and it decided I was going to use a different name and I used a different name for the first time ever and I was like oh this is right and correct and so I only had to spend three days there for me to like automatically be super improved and it was probably just because I changed my name and so I came back and I was like hey mom I think I'm just a boy and she was like cool keep me updated and then I got increasingly better and I changed my name and I was like hey guys I'm a boy and then I like went back to school and I was like I'm a boy now and everyone was like okay and my family was my parents were fine about it and my mother is the best person in the entire world and has always been like super supportive and like my biggest advocate and like is probably the best person I know in the world and my dad had like weird struggles with it where he was like like for a while after I transitioned he was like if you're not trying to be the most masculine version of yourself why are you angry when people misgender you and I was like that's not fair and also mean and other weird things like that but like in the past like three months actually he's like gone through this really like I think it's hit him like how much like how nuanced like this situation is and I am proud of him because he's awesome too and then like all it took my I think I was really lucky because my dad's out of the family my cousin came out or was outed as gay before I ever came out as anything and I think that like softened the blow of me being trans and it definitely like wasn't easy and there was a lot of like because my cousin is super flamboyant there was this experience where he came home with nail polish on and his dad was like take that off and they got into a big argument about it and like his dad's final thing like argument was I don't want you to end up like Nathan and which is really bad and something I still think about I don't even know if he remembers it but like the majority of my family is super great now and like super awesome and it's really a testament to like how far people can come and my mom's parents are really good about it my in the beginning I like went out to brunch with my grandma because she was like I want to understand this which is like a really noble thing to do and like for a while they like were using my name and my pronouns but it wasn't like they weren't like trying enough and so like I actually sat down and had a conversation with them where I'm like you need to try harder and I think my grandpa like really got that he really understood that and my grandma like is getting a lot better but she does this thing where like she'll misgender me and my grandpa will call her out and then she'll be like I feel like you should give me like a grandma pass on this or like a discount or something and I'm like no absolutely not no definitely not and I think it's something like where she doesn't like want to feel guilty and I think it's really hard for people to feel guilty but it's also something you probably should feel guilty about so yep I'm done now yeah I've been on this transfer like five months not very long I definitely didn't know for like like up until like literally a few days before it came out but I never had any sort of like like you talked about like being uncomfortable I like I never had any of that and I was like 100% sure I even said a few times when people asked me like like what do you think about transgender people I'd be like oh yeah they're great but I'm definitely 100% cis and yeah so that was I guess unexpected to me and I I was never like I was okay with me being trans but it was weird for me to like think about that and like a whole new way relating to me because suddenly I was like part of a group that I didn't necessarily know a lot about and it happened in like a very short amount of time and then they came out in a hurry because I was starting a program at the state house in like a few days and I didn't want to start as a girl and then transition like halfway through that because it just would have been easier to start out the right way so had a very hurried coming out experience and I think my parents took it okay and they've just been learning more stuff and asking me more questions and like figuring things out and realizing what they need to be doing I guess to support me so yeah they're doing really really well at this point I've had some interesting reactions from friends mostly supportive had one very uneducated friend who is still pretty uneducated but that's someone I'm trying to like work with to so that she can like understand more what I'm going through and what she needs to know to support me and all of that so yeah I don't have a lot more to say besides that on that subject what like tips do you guys have for trans kids in terms of coming out and like how you can do that and make it go as smoothly as possible what would you think I think it's hard for me to like conceptualize that right now because I to me it feels like I've been out for a long time and which it really hasn't it's I haven't but I the like activist in me wants to be like you're who you are and you don't like have to give people time and you don't have to like try to be understanding of people or like tolerate like the running curve that cis people learn at which is very slow and like you don't have to be like palatable and acceptable for cis people and you are who you are and that should be outright accepted but that's also like not how it works which is tiring and I think so much of what people tell you is like be understanding of people taking time but also like you don't have to be understanding like you can demand respect from people like you have that right and you like deserve that and if people don't understand that's not their fault that's on them that's like that's not your fault it's on them and the best thing you can do is like as long as it's not like a impacting your own physical or mental safety like be the most authentic version of yourself yeah I don't know if I really have like the the experience to say how to make it go smoothly because mine was kind of messy because I didn't really come out to my parents it was just kind of like gradual build-up of them finding out information about me there was never a moment where I said I'm trans to them it was just kind of gradually me dropping hints and just kind of like the build-up of them being like oh so this is what we should be doing and so that it kind of became common knowledge that I was trans and it never really was a big moment where I just said I'm trans it and like Trumpets play in the background it was like a moment like that where you see in the movies the three movies about trans people but I would definitely say that you in this situation you are the most important prioritize yourself and your comfort over the comfort of cis people who you're coming out to because cis people and people in general don't like their worldview challenged and that's part of being a human being and so by especially if the person you're coming out to doesn't have any experience with trans people they're going to be confused at first they're going to have a lot of questions but you don't but you are not obligated to to answer anything that you're not comfortable with Google is free if cost zero dollars zero dollars and zero cents and it is takes no time to open Google but so a click yeah even if if somebody asks you a question and you're comfortable with answering it by all means but if it's if you're starting to feel like it's becoming exhausting if engaging with people's questions is exhausting and it's tiring and it's hurting you mentally or physically prioritize yourself you're more important than cis people who are uneducated your job as a trans person isn't to be a walking talking it's like encyclopedia you do not have to take on the role of educating everyone around you Google is free there are resources out there and you shouldn't be bombarded with questions that you're not comfortable with and I think initially it's gonna feel like you want to answer everyone's questions because you're so excited to like share this like authentic you with people and then and it creeps up on you how exhausting it gets like cuz like weeks after you've come out and you're still answering these questions from people and like people are still unloading how they feel about your transition on to you it's like we're not your therapists like we don't care how you feel in this situation because it's not about you it's about us and so you'll be aware of like how you're feeling because that exhaustion can creep up on you really really like slowly and quietly and it's like really hard to get out of that like educator situation once you've gotten to it yeah I think it's definitely important to know that like other people's emotions in this situation really don't matter at all and that when you come out to someone it's like you shouldn't feel like oh my gosh I've like ruined this person's life and caused them a bunch of stress because like that's their fault and like I've had experiences where I come out to someone and then they ask me a bunch of like very offensive questions or say a bunch of transphobic things whether they realize it or not and then when I get mad at them and try to educate them go on like a rant of all their excuses about like oh I've been really like stressed out for the past month about all these things like I don't care and I don't need to know so I think it's important that yeah you don't need to listen to people when they talk about that and it's okay to just like be very frank with them and just tell them like I don't need to know and to make sure they know what they need to be doing just for you so people get so scared of the stereotype about trans people that they're gonna get so mad when you make a mistake and like trans people feel like they have to like be overly accepting and overly apologetic to people because of that stereotype you're allowed to fulfill that stereotype you're allowed to be like that's messed up please stop you're allowed to be the aggressive trans person yeah everyone seems to think we are yeah yeah don't feel sorry for the cis people who are scared of asking questions like you can yell at them if they're being stupid that's fine once again Google is free yeah it takes nothing to Google a question you have because I promise there are resources out there that aren't the 13 year old trans kid that lives in your house who probably might who might not even know right yep being trans doesn't make your authority on like trans activism or yeah yeah just stuff like that yeah so definitely individual experiences are very different as trans and then immediately the fairy blesses you all the knowledge of trans history that has ever happened you wake up one day and you're like Sylvia Rivera and you just know everything that's not how it works so don't don't take don't take stuff from cis people who are trying to be invasive and ask questions that you aren't comfortable with and who are unloading their feelings and thoughts and emotions on you like they misgender you and you correct them and oh it's so hard for me to I'm going through this is really affecting me here's all the reasons that I misgendered you like other than the fact that I just messed up and I'm not gonna apologize for that I'm just gonna apologize for all these other reasons that I didn't actually misgender you I just like these are all the other reasons yeah people need to learn that misgendering is something that's like it's not like it's it's very simple if you misgender someone you apologize quickly without unloading all your emotions or giving any sort of excuse not even apologizing just like yeah I don't even have to say anything just like say the right thing and then continue mm-hmm yeah all right next thing we're gonna talk about is sort of two things like medical transition and also dysphoria and before we start talking about this I do want to note that like this is a special like occasion for talking about this subject so you can't just like walk up to a trans person be like hey what's your medical history so yeah this is like a yeah this is an occasion where we are talking about this but that doesn't make it okay for you to like bring it up in conversation with you shouldn't ask about someone's medical history yes they bring it up yeah to you so I definitely just don't want to like note that to people don't take this the wrong way mm-hmm and also our experiences with being trans and well wanting to medically transition or medically transitioning aren't believe it or not the authority on what all trans people want or in need so just because yeah one of us or all of us want something or need something doesn't mean that every trans person does mm-hmm there are trans people who don't want to like transition at all and want to like present like still as the gender they were signed at birth there are trans people who don't want to medically transition there are trans people who want to fully medically transition it's there are there is no universal trans experience so on that note do you guys both want to share whatever you're comfortable sharing about like medical transition in general or your personal experience or me then why don't you start because you are the most I'm the most complicated yeah the most highly evolved I have had top surgery which is technically called a double incision mastectomy which it's not really a mastectomy because in regular mastectomy is they like don't pay as much attention to like aesthetic and also they don't take like fat as well as like actual mammary glands and so I have two big scars that go like this and that was almost six months ago and I have also been on testosterone for a year and a month and a half and that is why my voice sounds normal and causes a bunch of other things to happen and that's really like all I want for my medical transition like I like after I got top surgery like my dysphoria was virtually gone and like is to this day and like not really exist in anymore I also have a theory that like is a controversial theory that dysphoria is pretty much solely based in like societal expectations of what it means to be physically or like mentally a man or a woman or neither but I'm I'm pretty content in my own medical transition at this point like I have gotten all that I have needed from it I'm not really super medically transitioned I've been on estrogen blockers for it was a year on like the 10th I think of this month it was a year and I am less than a month away from starting testosterone my appointment to get a prescription is in mid-May so I think I think it's on May 15th and so then it's just gonna depend on a bunch of other stuff when I'm actually gonna start being able to shoot out yep as far as things that I would like for my medical transition I kind of I don't really want anything other than just testosterone and top surgery I don't have a lot of bottom dysphoria I'm if if it really comes down to it I might get a hysterectomy because being a testosterone and having a uterus can it that can bad do bad stuff to your body you don't need to have a hysterectomy but I have a bad family history as far as body chemistry and so I'm not gonna take the chance but yeah I don't really feel like I need bottom surgery I like the idea of it but it frankly it scares me too much to actually go through with it and it seems like the the consequences would far away the benefits for me because it's so much healing time and it's so much and it's so different from what you you know that I feel like it wouldn't be something that would be incredibly helpful for me so I feel very much the opposite and feel like it's worth and feel like it's like oh yeah for sure good enough that it like is something that they want and that they need yeah like there are just people who need bottom surgery to feel okay in their body yeah and that is completely a valid way to TRAN TM because as we mentioned earlier there is no right way or universal way to be trans like everyone has different experiences definitely and there's also like different people have different dysphoria levels or no dysphoria at all and you can get like whatever you can transition however you want regardless of dysphoria as well and yeah I think some people like are not like I'm not interested really in passing as male partly because I'm not male like I'm non-binary so that definitely has something to do with it because I don't I don't want to I'm I don't want to pass as female because I'm not female but I'm also not male so I think part of my like medical journey is probably just gonna be finding out like what I can do to sort of be somewhere in the middle and like I've heard of non-binary people who take like a small amount of testosterone and then that sort of like it doesn't have as big an effect so you're so like I wouldn't completely pass as male or like be completely like with all the effects of tea normally but I would still like sound different and feel different so that's something that I'm kind of interested in in the future I'm not allowed to take hormone blockers for some reasons but yeah so pretty much for me I'm just like waiting two and a half years until I can actually do anything yeah and we also can't speak to the experiences of like trans women either like definitely and this is a very like a panel of small small representation of the trans community yeah three white trans mask yeah we're probably the most privileged kind of transperson that you can get for sure like not probably we are we are the the most privileged like it's just like with anything there's levels of privilege that you get at when you're trans but just like when you're anything being a person like a black trans woman that is probably the least privileged type of trans person the life expectancy for trans women of color is like 32 yeah which is and the the murder rate of trans women specifically far outweighs the murder rate of trans people in general yeah especially trans women of color yeah which is a huge issue and it wouldn't be right for any of us to assume or talk about the experiences of assigned male birth people who identify as trans yeah yeah that's definitely a good thing to mention because that's a whole different topic really that we can't address and it would be cool in the future for us to maybe like get someone on here who can talk about that but so that's something maybe we can do I'm not sure but yeah so the thing I want to talk about is a question I get asked a lot is does your sexuality change when you transition which is yeah I think we just want to clarify that that's complicated because the answer is no because sexuality is also like biological and genetic the way that like gender is but at the same time the way that I view sexuality is like my own sexuality is like really really fluid and it actually like dramatically changed when I started T which is like not definitely not like a universal experience that's interesting yeah but and probably just has to do with like the way my sexuality is set up in general just like being really fluid all the time but it's definitely not a universal experience and most likely you know your sexuality doesn't change when you yeah I mean your your label can definitely change if you're like if you're a trans guy and so you're assigned female at birth and like while you identify as female or while you're like labeled as female you're straight or you consider yourself straight and when you transition then you're gay so your label does change sometimes but the actual sexuality like that part doesn't change who you're attracted to doesn't change even though your label might so that's confusing to some people but definitely something that's yeah and also as you mentioned it's very fluid so you can like use different labels at different times and it can change and go back and forth or it can stay the same for some people yes it just like always is exactly the same but it's flexible I had a very confusing experience and relationship with sexuality because when I was before I came out as trans identified as a lesbian and I'm not sure if that was me rejecting the part of myself that was trans or if that was me saying I can't be trans but I if I identify as a lesbian I can be masculine which isn't which obviously isn't the truth and is it and you could be masculine or feminine no matter what I had a very similar experience but my but I don't and I don't know if that was like a way for me to express my masculinity without admitting to myself that I was trans or if that was completely trying to suppress the male part of myself and just be like I don't want anything to do with men in general I don't know I don't know what that is but now and now that I've transitioned I identify as I don't know my sexuality super fluid I'm currently in a relationship with a person who defies as male so at this point I would I just say that I'm gay because explaining my sexuality to straight people is a nightmare straight people are a nightmare that's very true and so I just say that I'm gay because it's a lot easier but that really isn't the case is if you want to be super specific I guess the word that I like for myself is andro-sexual which is you just like masculinity so they kind of just regardless of the person's gender identity I in I am more attracted to people that are masculine that's all right is there anything else you guys want to cover or any additional comments advice anything did you didn't you say you wanted to talk about dysphoria oh yeah that's something we didn't talk about really but yeah should we define dysphoria yeah that's definitely something that for the sis for the sis yeah that's something that I find a lot of people actually have like I've never even heard of or don't understand and then we should address the question do you need dysphoria to be trans um dysphoria is defined as the like physical or mental pain that more often mental pain that some trans people feel because of the disconnect between like the gender that they are in their body and there are a lot of trans people who don't experience dysphoria and that's cool and awesome and I count as one of them now what I really would say like the definition of being trans isn't you have dysphoria it's gender euphoria it's you don't be like for instance someone who is trans mask you don't feel terrible when you're called with female pronouns but you feel a hell of a lot better sorry I'm okay when you're addressed as male so like that's gender use euphoria and your trans that's that's how it is if you feel if you feel better being addressed by pronouns other than the ones that were assigned to you your trans well I mean there's also like yeah people who like use different pronouns that feel like really good for them but also like still there's a lot of like people like who identify as women who use he him pronouns but still like identify as women but feel more comfortable with those pronouns because pronouns well unfortunately in our society are so associated with gender don't have to yeah and language is fake so you can identify as whatever gender you want because we made up gender we made up the concept of that we made up the concept of sexuality and we made up the concept of language so you can everything's fake and do whatever you want because at the end of the day we're all gonna die everything makes you happy while you're alive if you feel good transition if using pronouns other than what's what society says you should use them because you can life is short yeah pronouns are fun yeah I think it's it's there's also trans people like a lot of trans people who like don't care about pronouns at all or who are pronoun indifferent or non binary people who use their assigned pronouns just because it's convenient everything's fake dude just yeah yeah like just just be like hey hey what pronouns do you want me to use what name do you want me to use and then just do it it's not hard it is difficult if you can memorize your multiplication tables you can you can remember somebody's pronouns it's it's yeah not hard you're just being difficult for no reason yeah my mom has this saying that you don't have to understand you just have to not be a dick and I I try to live by that yep yeah I think um you also like you don't I think a lot of cis people take it very like personally or emotionally when you tell them like your new pronouns or whatever but it really doesn't have to be a big deal at all and but also if you wanted to be a big deal yeah like like kill it and yeah make it a huge thing you can but if you just want to like mention hey I'm using these pronouns now and people should just like go with it and not ask you stuff unless you bring up topics to talk about which is just a general rule but yeah like you deserve to have your name spoken like as you want it to be because names are just sounds that you like and so if you like a sound better than another one you deserve to have that sound used for you just like the sounds of pronouns if you like the sound of one pronoun better than the other one you're you deserve to have that you deserve to be respected as a human being and someone claiming that they're gonna use your the wrong pronouns for you just because they don't like you is not just because being called the right name isn't a privilege for for good trans people for trans basically for trans people who are palatable the cis people that isn't just a basic human right yeah it's like if I was in a fight with a cis person I wouldn't start calling them she if they were a cis male I wouldn't do that but like I really don't like Caitlyn Jenner but I would never miss gender her yeah she's a woman so like like and cis people when you say that I'm just like what like no I think Caitlyn Jenner is a terrible representation of the trans community and I really don't like her but I would never call her her dead name or call her with male pronouns because she is a woman and it's basic human decency to to respect that and it isn't like a right that you have to earn to be called the right name and pronouns it isn't something that should be expected and that if people mess up don't feel bad about correcting them yeah obviously obviously if it's safe for you to do that don't feel bad about correcting people yeah and they you shouldn't feel like indebted to a person because they're using the right pronouns you know they're mad at you like if you're in a fight with someone or it's someone who you really hate and they're being awful to you like just because they use the right pronouns doesn't mean they're being any less of a jerk like you could still yell back at them you don't have to pretend that oh well they didn't miss gender me so like it's fine happen yeah so that too like it's not something that and also cis people shouldn't ever like use that as like guilt trip a trans person by being like well I've never misgendered you so because that's just I haven't misgendered you this week so like I deserve an award yeah it's cool you want like a sticker or something like the dream trans person for cis people is like you have like a bag of like hard candies and every time they get like it's like a dog shake it for like a shake for a dog and every time they use they use the right pronoun you just give them a hard candy and like you're readily available to answer any question about trans history that they have or any question about your own medical history because obviously you're entitled to that to just know a random person's medical history and know what a random person's genitals look like so obviously that's your right as a cis person yeah that was sarcasm people struggle with it that was sarcasm um I think it can be really hard like dangerous to like start talking about pronouns and like gender as like a want yeah because some people like it's not like it's not like I identify as something it's like I am this yeah and they're like I choose to like I didn't like identify as a trans man and not just a man because I I like trans as a political identity and like a way to like like feel powerful in the world because I think being trans is like beautiful and complicated but all there are a lot of trans people who just identify as like men or women and like don't need that to like be a part of their identity yeah it's fine to want to pass a cis or like you don't have to feel like you would ever want to be cis though and that's another thing not all trans people want to be cis yeah apparently that's a mis that's something that cis people think is ridiculous yeah like as soon as someone comes out they want to be cis that isn't that isn't true and like obviously some people some trans people who are stealth they're just I just want to be perceived as a man and that's it that's my life but there are trans people myself included who are like I'm not cis I don't want to be cis please don't ever think that I'm cis I don't want to be perceived as cis and I have privilege in that I have privilege that I don't have to be stealth that I can live in my community and say I am a trans man and just be proud of that fact and not everybody has that but because I do I am gonna do my best to use that to the advantage of the other people in the trans community yeah who don't have that yeah those of us who have the ability to say things that make people uncomfortable like at least I feel a responsibility to keep on doing that yeah yeah definitely yeah I think it's also like if you're a trans person and you like wish you were cis or your goal is to pass a cis that's fine too yeah and if you like if you're if you think of being trans is like an irrelevant detail in your life that's fine as long as you understand that like other people are proud of the fact they're trans and that that's something that's like important and an empowering label for a lot of people and also that maybe that feeling like acknowledging that maybe that feeling comes from a place of like internalized transphobia definitely and like like the need to be cis is like something that comes from internalized just phobia yeah that's that's probably everything yeah unless you have any more yeah all right thanks for watching everybody this has been all things LGBTQ and we'll see you next time bye bye