 Okay, we're back in the Cube, in San Francisco, live at the Node Summit. Node Summit in San Francisco is a place, I'll see San Francisco groundbreaking at all fronts these days. All the new tech is happening in San Francisco, the startups, the developers, and we're here with Oren Taish, the COO of Haruku, recently acquired by Salesforce. Great success story in San Francisco, pioneered a lot of the work going on in cloud, developers, and really allowed people to really pump their apps out and get in the marketplace, create a lot of value for shareholders, developers, Oren, you excited? What's going on? Tell us what's happening, you're smiling. You bet, it's an amazing job. It's an amazing company, it's an amazing place to be. You know, there's some really amazing, what does that mean, right? It's always interesting to talk about metrics, so actually today, just totally coincidentally, but today, you go to haruku.com, the homepage, we cross a million apps deployed on the platform today, and I think even more impressively, we've got over 1.1 million deploys every single month going on right now. So people just love this platform, they are using it left and right. You know, I love the cloud, and as an entrepreneur, and I talk to developers all the time, the word enablement, enable success, that's kind of a buzzword. You guys really have done that, so take us through some quick, the reader's digest version of the history of Haruku and some of the key things you guys done, because you guys were a real enabler for developers, and just take us through some of the highlights, high moments of what you guys have done over the past three years, especially now with Salesforce, but go back a little bit, because you've been in the cloud business, you've known the market for a long time, and just give us a quick highlights of those enablements. Yeah, yeah, so four years ago when Haruku got founded by three guys, James, Adam, and O'ryan, they're the three co-founders of Haruku, it actually started as an online IDE. So the idea was developers have all this passion, they want to get things done, but it's just too hard, right? That getting started problem was just too hard. So we started off with an online IDE, and pretty quickly, and just got an amazing traction, and then pretty quickly realized that, there's actually a really interesting problem here, which is not just the development side, but actually the deployment side. So yeah, the reality is that, here you are, you're sitting with a Mac, and the experience of developing has just gotten better and better there, but then you hit this brick wall. What do you do from there? And so Haruku, to really use a buzzword, pivoted, and started to focus on the deployment side of things, and that's kind of when the fire got lit. So that was three years ago now, and since then, we've just been growing like mad, doing outstanding, and really what it's about for us is it's about focusing on the developer, 100% on the developer. So what that means is, how do you make sure that it's within their workflow, using their tools, using their experience, how do you make sure that every time you ever make a decision, you put the developer first, and it's resonated. We've just seen developers continue to respond to that every single time. So take us through the key, key aha moment for the developers. Is it ease of use? Is it efficiency, all the above? What's the key thing that you can point to that really knocked it out of the park? I'd actually say it's design. And design, what I mean when I say the word design is what I mean is you need to think about an intent and then ensure that everything is aligned around that. So a really simple, really concrete example of that would be how do you deploy your application to Haruku? You know, when you think about this problem, you have a set of source code, again running basically on your laptop, and you want to get that somewhere else. You want to get that up into the cloud. How do you do that? So before we were around, oh, you'd FTP it, and you'd use these different tools, and we realized this is insane, right? What you really want to do is you want to work into, you want to design into the existing developer workflow. And so Haruku invented the idea of using Git as a deployment mechanism. We're the very first people to do that, right? So Git push Haruku master, one line, and then you are using the existing tools you're using and you're deploying into a very, very simple mechanism to do that. And so to me, what that's about is it's this designed idea. You take a concept and you design every interaction point to be holistic and aligned with that original goal. Wow. So I'm really excited about what you guys have done because like a bunch of other companies that are out there doing this work, there's the early adopters, the pioneers, the Facebooks, the Twitters, the Harukus, the Joints. You know, the guys that get swallowed up by the big whales like EMC and Salesforce because they're just so valuable. But this notion of engineering and operations kind of converging together really has been a phenomenon of the cloud, public cloud, the Amazon kind of DNA where operations is development. So we're launching this week a new publication called devopsangle.com, a plug for our SiliconANGLE network growing media empire. But you're in that, you've been there for a long time. You guys have DevOps guys who are religious about this. Can you share with the folks out there what you think this DevOps movement is? Because I talked with Jonathan, the guy who used to run Facebook who's now on his own. It's very clicky and these guys talk to each other because there's only a few companies really pioneering DevOps and it's Facebook. It's guys who have these provisioning of hardware, huge growth curves. What is DevOps and what does it mean to like an IT department who's like, eh, slow? You know, I think that the best person to ask could actually be someone who works for me. So I want to maybe give you a slightly different perspective which is as an executive side, what does it mean for my company? Because the reality of like, what's DevOps? I have a team of people who are living that life but I don't. And so- Can you get him on the cube? I could, we could absolutely get him here, yeah. All right, Mark Hopkins, we'll get on that. Right, Mark Embriaco, he's the one you want to talk to if you want to know like, exactly what DevOps is. But what I can say is what it means for our business. But it's a real trend, I mean, can you tell me? Yo, yeah. I think it's a real, not only is it a real trend, it's something that really enables us. So the fact that we live a DevOps life, the fact that, and what does that mean, right? What that means is that developers are responsible for what they write. What it means is that operations needs to work with you to enable the business, not to, before I joined Heroku, I don't know, in the industry, they're often here about the TNT guys, the no team, right? And that's not Ops's role here. Ops's role is in enablement, they're part of the business. The no team. The no team, TNT, never go to the TNT guys. They'll blow it all up. So, you know, and it's about changing that mindset. And so what we've seen for us is it means that we're deploying multiple times every single day continuously. It means that the engineers are empowered to own exactly what they need to own and not be like, oh, do I need to check here? Do I need to check here? It's, no, it's my responsibility and it's my responsibility for quality as well. So I can't just put something out there and then throw it over the wall and expect someone else to make sure that this is ultimately gonna work. And what it means for our business is, frankly, a velocity that we would never have done what we did without this. It would have been flat out impossible for our business to exist if this isn't the way we operated. And why is that? At speed, we have, so today we're getting close to 100 people but back when Salesforce bought us we were just a few dozen people. And if you look at the velocity and the set of features and capabilities that we've put out over that time, it's really, I think, unmatched. You know, we have changed the definition of what it means to be a platform as a service. And that came about because of our ability to innovate and release quickly. There was a platform as a service panel out there today. It was saying nothing really was being said there. What's the state of the platform as a service marketplace? Is there a marketplace? Is it being commoditized? Where's the value being created in this platform as a service business? Oh, it was a panel. Of course, nothing was being said. Not only, we say it on the queue, but I mean, okay, I'll be more critical. What's going on with platform as a service? You know, because as one school thought it's the race to zero, depending on how you look at it. And there's also construction of value at the top of the stack where you want to build more applications or expose more APIs and the fear for people is I don't want to be a tool company, right? So I'm a developer. I'm like, I don't want to be a tool. I want to be part of a platform. So there's some contention around this platform as a service business model. What do you see in there? Do you have a perspective? I do, I have a perspective which says that there's never been a single instance of where a new abstraction layer hasn't fundamentally reshaped what the world we look at is. And so platform as a service is a new layer of abstraction. This is a new, higher level way of developers engaging in writing code and history has shown that to always, well, okay, maybe I can think of one or two fails starts, but there's definitely quite a bit of momentum behind that. And so, yeah, I think it's a tricky space. Will, here's my take, a decade from now we will no questions asked be looking back and saying, absolutely, platform as a service has changed what it means to create applications. Now, of course I believe it's Roku but it could be us, it could be someone else, it could be someone on the panel or it could be someone who doesn't exist yet. That's, now we're starting to get into corporate politicking and boostership, right? But I do fundamentally believe this new layer of abstraction, this new way of thinking. You said you don't want to be a tool or other thing. This is about developers. I hate to do it, the Steve Bommer quote, maybe old, old, old, but developers, developers, developers. And someone even on Twitter was making fun of that. But you can make fun of that. At the end of the day, it's true. It's fundamentally true. And I've been a developer a long time. Developers' lives often are terrible. The experience of how you're actually working is terrible. And we can make this so much better and enable so much more value for the businesses. And I think that's what PASS is about. So yeah, there's no question this is going to change everything. What does PASS mean for the operations team though? Are there jobs going away, being outsourced to the cloud, to PASS providers, to infrastructure providers, you're running on Amazon. So even at your layer, there's a certain amount of outsourcing going on. That's right, that's right. I think it all comes to business value. To me is actually what this is about. So what is the goal of ops? I would argue that the goal of ops is not to deploy an app. That's not your job. Your job is to enable applications to run effectively within the constraints of your business. And so people have crossed these wires and said, oh no, no, no, my job is to watch that console and make sure that that light never turns red. But they're missing the actual business value. And CIOs all around are really frustrated because they're not able to deliver the business value. And they're constantly thought of as a cost basis. What this actually lets these teams do is actually start to focus up that value chain. So the very same people now, when you're freed up from doing some stuff that you don't need to do anymore, you're enabled to deliver on that value side. They can become a profit center instead of a cost center. Potentially, absolutely. That's so much structured around the business side of things. What I will say is they can become delivering value. And I actually think VMware did an amazing job with the virtualization layer for enabling a team of people who used to always be saying no to giving the value and delivery services. Now all of a sudden with virtualization, these teams are able to say, oh yeah, I can have a disaster recovery plan for you. I can give you all these business features. Now we're enabling them to go to the next level. This new level of abstraction lets these same ops people now say, oh yeah, I'm actually monitoring things like how your application performance is going. I'm actually monitoring the portfolio of applications to make sure that these are operating the way we expect them to. And that, I think, is just pure money for everyone involved. Since we're at Node Summit, I think we should maybe talk about Node.js a little bit. Node.js is one of the first languages besides Ruby that you supported on Heroku. Number two. And you were one of the very first platforms as a service to offer a beta support for Node.js. So why was Node.js the second thing that you rolled out? Plain and simple as developers. We listened to what the groundswell of interest is and what we were hearing loud and clear. And to be fair, it's a developer on our side who heard this. Blake Mizoraini is the creator of Sinatra. And he was like, man, this Node thing is amazing. I can't believe what you can do with this language. We have to support it. And we listen. We listen to those bleeding edge. We listen to what people like Blake say. And we follow in them and make sure that we're making the developers happy. How much traction has Node.js gotten on your platform? Incredible traction. It's the second most popular language on the platform to date. And if you consider that to use Node.js on Heroku is actually not the default path, right? The default path is still to use Ruby. So if you consider that it's still not the default path, people have to opt in. They have to choose to use this. They have to do an extra step. It's incredible the traction was saying. Just absolutely mind-boggling. Are there any customers that you can talk about that are using Node.js on Heroku? I'm actually kind of frustrated in that they've all been very private. This is always a challenge. I can talk in general. Like there's one customer that's doing this incredible, incredible app. It's actually, I was mentioning during the panel what they're doing is a machine to machine app. So this isn't like a webpage you go to or an API back in for a phone. What they actually have is they have a distributed system that this customer does themselves running. And this distributed system is actually using a component on Heroku to manage the distributed system itself. And so you have this distributed system with a component running on Heroku and they're doing mind-boggling traffic. If this was a website, they would be in like the top 20 websites in the world kind of traffic. And this is just a machine to machine distributed systems component that they're running. And so we're seeing some just really amazing, amazing things. And this is from a public multibillion dollar company that's running on Heroku. Just can't say who they are right now. And so there's that, of course, there's also people who are doing, there's actually a really interesting iPad backend. For example, someone has an app that does all sorts of interesting image processing in the backend of that's all running on Heroku. So a wide range of things that are going on right now. Okay. Well, I just want to throw one harder question at you, I guess before we have to sign off. I saw a lot of skepticism on Twitter earlier when you announced that you had passed one million applications. It was like, how many of those are cat.jpeg or you know, some sort of Hello World app that's not for the Facebook platform. So a while back, Engine Yard had suggested that a better metric for how much business platforms of services doing might be CPU cycles instead of number of apps deployed. I think that's actually, if you're saying that, you don't understand platform as a service. I might be misremembering which met. Well, I would say the metric that matters. Whether it was CPU cycles or if it was some, but it was some, you know, some quantifiable machine metric rather than. I agree. Then just number of apps. Right, so I agree. I would say that what matters, keep in mind pass is about abstraction. If we're talking about infrastructure as a service, we should be talking about CPU or memory or network. But if we're talking about pass, we should be talking about developers. So something machine, that makes a lot of sense. So the metric I'm going to give you is deploys. What more could you ask, right? This isn't like Hello World, this isn't cat.jpeg. If you're doing a deploy, you are by definition engaging and actively using the platform, right? And so Heroku is doing 1.1 million deploys every single month right now. Well, actually it's more than that. In the past 30 days, we've done 1.1 million deploys and that number is just accelerating. So that's not Hello World. Or if it is, it's people deploying Hello World and iterating on their app. Which actually isn't the case. But this is the debugging Hello World, right? So what we're seeing is real use cases of people really engaging with and modifying and deploying and iterating on those real applications. And so 1.1 million of those a month, it's a real number. John, did you have any other questions for them? Just kind of quick update before we go to the next guest. What's next for you guys? Obviously the question everyone wants to know is what's it like at Salesforce? Yeah. We know you guys had a race to do a lot of stuff that some would call medieval for Heroku standards, you know, Java, et cetera, and things that you were working on. What's it like there now? I mean, you guys getting along, is it cool? I mean, obviously Salesforce is acquiring and they got some mojo, they're going social data. So what's the status of the Salesforce integration? I feel like before I answer that straight, I'm going to come across as a shill. So I need to give you just one background, which is I've been through another acquisition before. I came out here in 99 and that acquisition was a disaster, really bad. So coming from, I actually shed a tear when I heard about the acquisition. I was really afraid of how bad this could go. And the simple reality is it's been amazing. Unquestionably, the company has been supportive. Salesforce is an amazing company. But here I am, I'm part of it. So everyone who's watching is like yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. The only thing that matters is the results. So the ultimate question is how when you go to Heroku.com, when you attend our events, when you speak to us, when you use our platform, what do you think? It's easy for me to say we're all about the developers, but let me put it back. It's easy for me to say it's going great. I'm going to ask the developer community, hop on Twitter, talk to us. Make sure, do you think we're doing an amazing job? I really believe the answer is yes. And hopefully the results will be. Good reviews. And you know, Benioff's great because at Oracle World, we covered his unconference keynote because he did the whole stream that live, so it was great. He's a founder. He's around. He's hanging around. He's a lot of passion. He's very authentic. I talked to him a lot on Facebook. He's responsive. That's a cool culture. I, we need to keep in mind, again, from a developer perspective, so many people are like afraid of money. And Benioff is someone who is shown the weight as a founder to make a real business and to recognize how you don't need to compromise. You don't need to be a slimy bastard. You can do things well and nicely and still be effective. And you know, he's outrageous. He's a philanthropist. He donated a lot of money to this medical facility here. It's incredible. It's a vision area, so he's been great. You guys had a great run doing good things at Salesforce. Just sat together over there with the cloud. Congratulations. Thank you. And we look forward to collaborating with you guys on Devops Angle. You bet. Thanks for your support. Thank you very much. Thanks for being on theCUBE. Orientation CEO of Heroku. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. We'll be right back in five minutes.