 Good morning everyone and thanks for being here today as some of you know yesterday members of my administration Presenting to the legislature on the state of our housing crisis and type of action that will be needed if we're truly going to overcome it This is not a new challenge and we've made it a top priority since I first took office When we passed a historic thirty five million dollar housing bond Since then we've committed hundreds of millions of dollars to build more housing across Vermont Keep in mind much of this funding came from the federal government at levels. We will likely not see again for decades but Even with this unprecedented amount of government spending which we know we won't be able to replicate We aren't building nearly enough housing to satisfy our ever-growing needs As you heard yesterday according to VHFA, we need to build as many as 40,000 new units of housing by 2030 In our own Calculation show we need to increase the number of units we're building by about three times what we've been doing statewide And even more than that in several counties Unfortunately at the present rate we won't come close to this type of building even with record spending What that tells us is this isn't just about money. So we must look at other solutions as well. I Believe some of the choke point is the regulatory system That makes building or rehabbing the homes of Vermonters need to costly Too slow and therefore too limited and too unaffordable for homeowners and renters. So we need to make dramatic changes We made some progress last year with the home act But with the deficit of housing we're facing we must be bold We can no longer just nibble around the edges If we're serious about fixing the housing crisis, we need to totally rethink our approach Because doing the things the way we've been doing it will just lead us to the same conclusion My team will go over some of the data and highlights in a few minutes But what Vermonters can expect from us when the legislature returns in January is a major Regulatory tax and incentive package that will reduce the obstacles government has created to build the housing We desperately need And we went to legislators yesterday to get this conversation started early Because it's going to take all of us willing to think big in order to make real change. I Know legislators agree. We're in a housing crisis I've heard many of them state that and I've seen where they campaigned on it in the last election So I think we're all on the same page This session is time for us to come together to take on the regulatory and cost issues that have been growing for far too long Because the reality is if we don't we won't be able to reverse the demographic challenges. We face We won't be able to recruit and retain the families and workers communities across our state need to survive and thrive And we won't be able to find the housing that families facing homelessness desperately need We can't afford to mess this up and we can't afford to let politics our special interest groups get in the way We need to work together to deliver the solutions Vermonters need and that's exactly what my team and I intend to do So with that, I'll turn it over to Commissioner Farrell Thank you governor good morning You'll see my colleagues from AHS here We've been working as a cross agency team Additionally with members of the agency of natural resources and other partners that are key to this conversation We've been working in a working group. That's been analyzing homelessness data looking at current and previous housing studies And we've been reviewing current and previous trends Before we dive into the data, I want to set some high-level conclusions from our work The first being that as we've long known we have an acute housing crisis And this deficit runs the whole housing spectrum across the state We also know we can't buy our way out of this crisis as the governor said We need to create an environment in which builders can quickly can quickly create opportunities That make it easier for renters to find rentals at a more reasonable price and home buyers to find more opportunities The result of our hard work has convinced us that under the current regulatory tax policy and economic conditions that have evolved over many decades Vermont can't solve the housing crisis at any level for any population simply by nibbling around the edges of this issue Housing reports dating back to the 1990s have forecasted the crisis that we face today tax policy, sorry But in the past we haven't quite acted sufficiently enough even though we've had these warnings We've simply directed state spending to unit generation at times. We've said that'll that'll be enough to get the job done So at our current rate of public investment as the governor indicated We know although it's been unprecedented and although we still haven't seen the full benefit of that unit creation It's still going to leave a deficit For march 2020 through october of this year We've invested nearly 400 million dollars in absolutely historic amount of funding Into the into unit generation through the vermont housing and conservation board the department of housing and community development And the vermont housing and finance agency We still face a significant unit deficit projects funded by these partners And through things like the community development block grant through these typical public funding channels Are creeping up to an average per cost of almost 600 thousand dollars per unit So at that rate we could invest a billion dollars of public funding and still only produce about 2000 units That is not going to come close to meeting our need To better understand the issue We're going to pull up data that looks at this on a per county basis Because part of the problem in the past has a one side has been a one size fits all approach That treats the entire state the same and that's not going to work We know that our economic center is very greatly And it can make it difficult for the communities that are struggling most so In a moment we're going to pull up this data, but We just want to acknowledge that this is not a perfect calculation And we know that no such calculation exists. There's going to be a couple items in here in which folks will instinctively say Uh, this is probably a conservative estimate and that's because it is a conservative estimate The data we used is us census bureau data and um While we would love to have used data that we think more accurately reflects the reality on the ground This is frankly, uh, the most objective agreed upon data so that folks could use this as a starting point I think it's likely based on our conversations with the legislature yesterday that we will also all agree that even this Striking unit deficit is an under estimate So with that in mind, why don't we pull up the power point? What's up? Okay. Thank you john Um John do we have the methodology slide up? Okay, so you can see that what we've set here are some targets Um And these targets indicate a healthy housing market. So generally speaking A rental vacancy rate and a home ownership vacancy rate of five percent is considered a healthy market Now, uh on the next slide before we go to it I'm just going to let you know we're going to see vacancy rates that are not close to that That said you will see some vacancy rates that seem higher than what most of us would expect and then what that then that Will we know is the reality? For instance, um As of yesterday, uh, we looked at the q3 2023 rental vacancy rate That the census bureau updated and it's now showing a three percent rental vacancy rate across the state And a zero point three percent home ownership vacancy rate across the state So already the census bureau's data has moved downward below the data that we used Even with the data that we know has slightly inflated vacancy rates We're still going to see a massive unit deficit, especially relative to what we've been generating So john if we can go to the next slide So what you're what you're looking at here Is the regional vacancy rates roughly by county grouped by the the us census bureau grouping The owned vacancy rates you can see hover around one percent nowhere near that target three percent Next to that you can see the unit count that it would take to get to that healthy vacancy rate On these unit counts. I want to point out this takes into account both the units needed to rehouse folks experiencing homelessness As well as reaching these healthy vacancy rates Now on the right side, you'll see the rental vacancy rates These are below healthy market, especially in counties like washington and chitinon counties. It's far below a healthy market Even in those counties where this indicates a relatively healthy rental market We know from surveys and experience on the ground that these are high estimates and the us census bureau's margin of error reflects that Still even with those you can see the number of units needed In order to achieve those healthy rental vacancy rates and rehouse folks experiencing homelessness In total this accounts for roughly 6,800 units And bear in mind that is not a dynamic number what I mean by that is That 6,800 units could be absorbed right now to establish a healthy housing market That would not take into account what we need in terms of population growth Workforce growth the two to three thousand units that drop off the housing market each year due to disrepair Because vermont has the oldest housing stock in the nation Now if we move to the next slide You can see the these unit deficits stacked up against what we have historically been producing And thus you see next to the unit deficit a production factor What that increased production factor indicates is The uh the multiple by which we would have to increase the five-year average That average of the last five years by the way of what we've been producing For units in each of these counties is higher than the previous 10 years Another indication that this is a conservative estimate because over the past several years we've benefited from massive investment And so again, I want to point to we've gone on the conservative side and we're still seeing nearly 8 000 units That could be absorbed right now I want to point to the statewide production increase factor of 3.2 statewide As the governor indicated That calls for a massive systemic change The numbers I pointed to earlier the investment that we've seen and the theoretical investment Will not touch that type of an increase so we absolutely need to look at systemic change I also want to while we have this slide up before we move away from the data I want to just point out that at this rate we are By no means at risk of overbuilding and in fact this data and reports from several previous administration support That we have decades of evidence that our current system produces significant underbuilding of housing so I want to acknowledge that while these are conservative estimates. They're a starting point and we're happy to have discussions about more accurate data But we know that it would only move upward from here And so that 40 000 unit projection that phfa has talked about we think is Is certainly an accurate target and further investigation, which will come out in the spring may reveal that it's even higher So this is the hard truth the reality that we face government spending alone is not going to get the job done As the governor mentioned in the coming months, we're going to roll out a detailed proposal on how to address this situation But the conversation needs to start now So our position is that we must tackle rapid action in these three areas land use tax policy And investment incentive proposals What we're recommending for policy reforms is that we expedite permanent lasting solutions for the homeless population Uh for low and moderate income families and for entry-level families and uh expanding the workforce As we await a firmer budget picture. We don't have final Final recommendations at this time, but we can highlight areas in which we want to start the conversation In land use and zoning. We know we want to expand on the work that the home acts started last year Some of that is going to be ending exclusionary zoning practices and municipalities We collectively acknowledged further during the 2023 legislative session that act 250 exemptions are necessary in order to enable unit generation We need to adjust the triggers to act 250 Uh represented by the 10 by 5 by 5 rule which currently not only reduce unit count, but actually encourage sprawl We need to get serious about establishing short and predictable timelines for permitting and focus on making the appeals process More constructive by narrowing the scope of appeals and by preventing the current structure in which Housing development and emergency shelters can be stopped just by folks who aren't excited about the idea of new neighbors When it comes to tax policy, if we're going to lower the cost of housing, we need to remove barriers to investing in housing This could uh require us to Um look at changes to the property transfer tax the capital gains tax expansions of the renter rebate Uh, we need to remove the annual cap on the downtown tax credit program On financing and I want to make this point clear. We are not saying that Investment and financing is not necessary. We continue to acknowledge and the governor has Always said that investment in housing has to happen. It's only going to be effective if we make these other changes Some of those investments mean focusing on the programs that have been proven to work Innovative new solutions like the Vermont housing improvement program and the manufactured housing and replacement program Have proven to be cost effective and innovative programs that fill certain gaps and finally we need to explore ways to Reduce the financing barrier of housing construction implementing Solutions to finance the infrastructure for housing development such as roads water and sewer Again a one-size-fits-all approach is not going to work because this needs to be focused on a county by county basis To conclude we've done a lot of work over the last few months We have new data around the unit deficits And we've worked across agencies and we will continue to collaborate We also want to be sure that we're collaborating with other stakeholders and the legislature But this will make some folks uncomfortable and that is good. We need to get uncomfortable in order to make the necessary change I'm now going to hand it off to commissioner winters. Thank you Good morning. Thank you commissioner ferrell. Thank you governor Another question that i'm sure you all have and that we face today is what do we do with the hotel motel program In the meantime, and how do we bridge that gap? As we've said, it's important to recognize that the answer to homelessness lies in increasing the availability of affordable housing We can't solve our hotel motel problem or homelessness more broadly Without acting quickly to create more units faster and at a much lower cost I'll talk a little bit about the efforts that we have been making but a lack of units undermines our progress at every turn It's also important to recognize right up front that the hotel motel model is not working and is not cost effective DCF serves as the safety net We are not a housing provider And as the safety net as that last resort, we're on the front lines every single day trying to help as many people as possible in their time of need The work for us never stops We've been trying to address and prevent unsheltered homelessness and implement various plans since the start of the pandemic era hotel program Long before i arrived as dcf commissioner that work has been going on for years We've been diligent in supporting and working with our community partners on many fronts including record spending 24.6 million in federal and state funding in state year Fiscal year 2024 using the housing opportunity grant program Those grants provide the funding and support to do a variety of important work to try to address Homelessness crisis that we face today It helps us operate emergency overnight shelters provide essential services to shelter guests provide tradition transitional housing rapidly rehoused families And individuals implement a coordinated entry system to streamline client access to resources Provide flexible financial assistance directly to households administer the homeless management information system Expand emergency shelters add new local staff positions and create motel based services We continue at dcf to work hard to identify new shelter locations and providers to run those shelters To provide emergency housing expertise To connect individuals to services to implement voucher programs prevent eviction support outreach programs And provide housing navigation and retention services Despite all of our best efforts to assist those experiencing homelessness The challenge persists because individuals cannot move forward without a place to call home The hard truth is that maintaining the status quo As we're doing now And this winter will cost us 50 million dollars a year without delivering the necessary services We have about 450 shelter beds across the state separate from the hotel program There's a general consensus that a shelter model combining congregate and non congregate congregate options and wraparound services Run by nonprofits rather than for profits would be preferable But the reality is that's not a feasible option in the near term We have been and we will continue to work with communities across the state to bolster our existing emergency shelters And to identify and expand other shelter options But that's been slow going it requires suitable locations community support staffing and funding Expanding shelter beds faces the same challenges as the broader housing issue A lack of available units in space for a swift transition into and out of emergency shelter While we're actively searching for local sites providers and buildings to establish these shelters The pace and quantity can't keep up with the growing demand We explored a more comprehensive plan to greatly expand shelters to add subsidies and services However, the best case scenario at our current caseload would cost 70 million dollars Its feasibility is questionable and sows the wisdom of a large expansion of shelters when we don't have an adequate supply of units To ensure shelter stays are brief as was always intended In the near term the need for shelter beds will become increasingly serious with the end of the june 30 cohort stay on april 1st We can't continue to rely on hotels to house those in need And the agency of human services proposes to establish emergency shelters In the regions with the most need for those still in hotels at the end of the current program this spring We're also helpful that by using fewer hotel rooms. We'll incentivize lower room rates for the smaller number of rooms that we would need And it might spur the sale of hotels to turn into other forms of shelter and affordable housing Homelessness is a crisis and our hope is that everyone hears clearly the message that we need more housing units to solve it And we need them as soon as possible Thank you Now open up to questions Secretary commissioner winters just said and you've said we need to add housing How about is there any work being done on reducing the numbers of homeless people? Well, let's separate the two issues As well because it's about we need housing in all sectors. We need middle income housing We just We're desperate for more housing which will solve a lot of the other issues to free up Less expensive housing as well so We have to again focus this conversation on We need those units regardless of the homeless population. We need more units on the ground So that's been going to be our focus and we'll we'll Again work on the homeless population In conjunction with that, but the main focus is really about building more units Yesterday and today mentioned Potentially setting up several shelters in different communities How do you expect to to to pull this off in such a short amount of time? Especially given that the one in burlington has run into some pushback. Well, again, that's why we need Some some assistance from the legislature. We have to think bold here We're going to need regulatory reform in order to accomplish this So everything's got to be on the table Now I know um in the past the speaker has called on me to to um To have a state of emergency uh with housing And I would say that's not off the table My preference my preference would be to work with the legislature hand in hand To accomplish this together and get the results we need but that's still an option What would you need to see before issuing a state of emergency where the guard could set up? Again tensor structure cooperation from a regulatory perspective I think would be very helpful tax incentives tax credits and so forth would be helpful You know, this is simply an economics issue Supply and demand We have more demand than we have supply So we need to reverse that, you know, we need more we need more supply and and that will reduce the demand Reduce the prices as a result So um from my perspective it's it's economics 101 Were there any or ever any discussions in the administration or in the legislature for that matter to to buy some of these hotels We've funneled hundreds of millions sure a lot of the the housing trusts across vermont have been doing that We still believe that there's a path forward if we can find some that would be helpful as commissioner winters had said But there probably isn't near enough to accomplish what we need to accomplish Is that accurate? That's accurate governor. There have been a few dozen Different hotel and motel conversions over the years. It takes time And it takes a willing market right now with the hotel model that we have right now It's much more profitable to keep people in those hotels keep Keep those rooms full. So we think with Using less rooms The fair market value for some of those hotels might go down There might be more of an incentive for hotel and motel owners to work with us and transition those to different types of housing It's all all part of the problem And I do just want to say that we we have been working On emergency shelter siting that those are conversations that have been going on for a very long time So a lot of those are already in process We don't want to over promise that we'll be able to to stand up Shelters in in five or six communities by April 1st But we're pretty optimistic about it and it's going to take community support to really make that happen in partnerships As the governor mentioned Are you able to share where some of these might be? Well, we look at the the areas of highest need, you know, right now it's it's chitenden county. It's central vermont. It's Rutland county Bennington and braddleboro areas. Those are the five areas with the most concentration of hotels and People experiencing homelessness. So we start there, but we're really open to a lot of different options in different areas further governor Yesterday I had to hear a bold getting uncomfortable Maybe some of the key words may sell last year with s100 the home act There was some active 50 reform but former commissioner hanford I know you sort of like to see more but I guess where's your confidence level rank? I mean with the democrat supermajority in our mental state How often are you can get them on your side for these more uncomfortable and bold changes? Yeah, well again, if this is truly a crisis as many many have stated stated that this is an emergency And then we have on our hands we have to treat it as such So we have to come together And when that happens, I mean we've seen it with the pandemic We've seen it with the flooding in july with the state of emergency You have to introduce measures that make people uncomfortable and make some of our own Secretaries and commissioners uncomfortable with what we have to do To achieve the goal of getting people back on their feet and and keeping people Safe And if this is truly a crisis then I would expect that they would rally and and that they would they would want to do What what's best for the community at large vermont at large? So I'm I'm hopeful but but again, we'll I think the home act You know, that's a great example. I think of it was a good provision But it didn't go far enough. In fact, I was having Second thoughts about whether I was going to sign it at one point because I didn't think it went far enough And it's proven to be helpful But but we need more of that so It was the same with you know with reform to our pension system As you remember I vetoed that because I didn't think it went far enough and it wasn't going to accomplish the goal I wasn't successful in my my veto But but I think it's proven to be the case. It was it didn't go far enough And we didn't we didn't accomplish what we'd hoped and and you'll see that that's for another day But there's a deficit there as well It's obviously yesterday's the world the joint fiscal committee hearing But are you planning on speaking with the speaker or pro-time kind of heading into the session to lay down these priorities? We'll work with legislative leadership as well as you know the chairs of committees appropriate committees To try and flesh out some of this as we develop it But you haven't had any conversations directly with them yet. I hope not why We haven't fleshed out all the details and what we need We're we're developing that as we go I think some of what we've talked about this is this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but but I think Really diving into the details collecting the data Has opened my eyes and I hope it'll open their eyes to how extreme this issue is and it's about the number of units that we need in order to to level set and so To get ahead of this we're going to just have to do a lot more than we've been doing Certainly the flooding has compounded some of these housing challenges. I believe folks at the Berlin mobile home park. I think just paid their fourth month rent But there's still some have been removed, but there's still many homes there Where do we stand in terms of of the cleanup and removal? Yeah, we're we're negotiating with the owner of the park right now. We're ready to go in there They may want to take care of some of them themselves But those are details we're we're working out the lot rent has ceased for those We have we have made agreement with some of the mobile home owners and we've taken possession of them We've given them some money to supplement what they receive from FEMA to get them up to the 41 000 And so those are really in the state's possession. So they aren't they do not owe lot rent at this point Physical space itself. I know it's private. It's owned by the owner We talk about the buyout program For berry and some of these other communities mean would that ever be in the cards for the state to buy out that that plot of land Or river run just up. Yeah, no, I think everything is on the table. Um, we'd have to have a willing partner I'm not sure what the park owner is contemplating in it. We have to have the community The municipality has to be a partner as well And that gets difficult Because we talk about the grand list reducing the the size of the grand list By reducing the number of homes that would be able to be to be in in that for tax purposes, so It's uh, but it's part of the conversation. Yes Do you have any data on what might be called existing housing but uninhabitable at the moment? I'm sure we have that somewhere. Um, but uh, From what I hear we lose You know thousands on a yearly basis that that are no longer habitable and And those are the types of homes that we talked about with our v-hip program It was something that I thought about years ago when I went through my hometown of berry To see some of the beautiful homes that are there that are dilapidated victorian homes and so forth that are no longer housing anyone But they needed to help they needed some assistance They needed some funding in order to bring them back up to you know some some Level of habitability. So, um, that's why that's why we use the That's the new housing. Oh, yeah. Yes v-hip program that we've we put into place. We had the legislature Adopted that with us That has proven to be very cost effective And it's not the total answer, but you think about the the number of homes we have In and in berry and rottland and and and burlington and chitting county that maybe needs some help and in the assistance and Trying to to get them again to that level of habitability That's a benefit to us for far less money. I'm going to let mr. Carroll Yeah So I cited a number before we're seeing new construction of of these publicly funded units Approaching six hundred thousand dollars six hundred thousand dollars per unit by comparison v-hip that the governor mentioned Those rehab units are coming online for about thirty thousand dollars each and we've seen hundreds of those come online That's a similar square footage Uh, yes, it would be it's it's on a per unit basis, but it could take a bunch of different forms It could be bringing a unit back up to code to get back online or it could be taking an old victorian and splitting it up into Two or three units, but it's vastly more cost effective Um, either than a community that had a housing Unhoused problem they hired a consultant for fifty thousand dollars And the report was basically if you build it, they will come If you do the right thing and provide more shelter and more food you will have more homeless Well, I think I would take that is if we build it They will come in terms of attracting more people into the state more workers more Well, I'm talking about Quite quite the opposite. I think a vibrant economy Will help the homeless and I think that we we need to address this This housing issue that we have and I believe that will reduce the demand for for homeless housing because it'll lift the economy And inject the economy with the with the workers we need To supplement the income. So I think it's all all positive If we focus on housing in general, I think it'll help the homeless population as well in many different ways I notice the data that the two southern counties had the most available units by quite a bit Is that a part of an economic problem? Or Any unique well if it's the southern With windham and denny's 67 percent versus zero or one percent I think if you go and take a look at what happened during that period of time For my Yankee clothes, right in windham county Um, I would say there's a direct correlation there With the number of jobs that were lost in that area high paying positions That were lost in that in that area to what we're seeing today You can look over in bennington and you can see Ever ready's gone. There's been many many manufacturing Entities uh that uh economic I think I think a lot of it is economic, but Anything I think that's right. Yep Governor you mentioned um taxes or tax proposals could be on the table Next session will be will be excuse me. We'll be tomorrow at the state house There is going to be a coalition the american civil liberties union the natural resources council A few others there they're going to be presenting a proposal that they say will Ensure that the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes and imagine that means Taxing for wealthy for monitors. Yeah, we have a pretty progressive tax policy here in the state already I'm not sure how many more Of the wealthy there are and how much more we're going to reap from them without them moving. I I think Again, we should be thinking about how do we get our economy rev back up? How do we invest in in the middle income for monitors? To to provide for another middle income that we're we're losing We don't have that many. I don't think we have that many affluent people in vermont But we sure have A number of people on the other end of the scale That needs some help and especially in the rural sections the communities have been left behind And I've talked a lot about this. That's why we focus so heavily on on the other You know, we have three or four counties one in particular, but two three counties that are doing okay They could be doing better, but they're doing okay But the others, you know, the other 10 11 12 counties needs some help And their economic centers are not anywhere near what they used to be And that's why we need to invest in those communities to bring back their economy Which will lift them up and lift the whole state up to be more economically vibrant You mentioned the story of two vermonts, if you will, I guess it's nothing new But what would you like to see in terms of a tax policy for next session? Well, we're going to look at, you know, incentivized building housing. I mean, that's our focus And to do that it has to be Aventages for those who are considering it So tax credits, I think would be on the table And I know the pushback will be well, we're just giving Tax breaks. Well, we're not receiving the tax now because they're not building enough housing So if we can energize the the housing market Provide tax credit, I think we'll benefit as a result on both ends more housing And I think we'll have more income Got a few folks on the phone We'll go to now we'll start with tim vermont business magazine Tim we'll go to tom davis compass vermont Thank you, Jason. Uh, I think this might be for commissioner ferrell, uh, your governor If you go back to the slide that she grew up presented, uh, So if you can be explained to the public who some of them are like me and won't fully understand What the math transfers to I'd like to ask you about the current unit production Um, if you take washington county as an example, and you say the unit deficit is 771 units Is that over a five-year period that washington county built 771 less than they needed to during that period of time So what that indicates is that if you take the average number of units produced in washington county Over the last last five years and then that average annual production um The 771 that's needed Uh would require an increase of 4.7 Compared to that's the multiplier compared to what has been annually produced on average over the past five years So, you know just to use square numbers You know, uh, let's say we had a county and we don't but let's say we had a county who had An average production over the last five years of 100 Well, that would mean that it a 4.7 increase factor would mean they would need to increase by 470 units so That gives you the sense of scale here So that would be 470 units over five here Nope That that annually that's right. That would be compared to their annual production. So that would be uh, think of it as a point in time right now So what county would need to produce 3,624 homes or units per year To to try to ramp up to a stable point, right? I think rather a better way to think of it is that At this point in time This is the number of units that would be needed right now And then that would level us off So we would need to continue producing at a level rate to maintain healthy vacancy rates and to overcome the the Two to three thousand units lost per year statewide due to housing atrophy But this does not contemplate a sort of a forward projection That is rather left to things like the housing needs assessment vhf as projections. This is more of a point in time What's the deficit and how does that compare to what these units have been producing on an annual basis? That makes a lot of sense one more question governor When you look at the leadership in vermont Who? Whether it's groups or individuals organizations who need The most convincing to relax a lot of the regulatory matters that are still slowing the process in vermont so much Is there a short list of those you're comfortable discussing? um Yeah, we just need we just need the buy-in from legislators to do this we need you know 76 of them in the house Another 16 in the senate the main profit when they say they recognize the problem But they didn't do much really to help. That's 100 was a first step in that direction But the resistance, uh, do you have a sense of um, they see if they actually have been out into the into the The rural areas of vermont and see what the actual housing issues are Yeah, I want to be fair about this as well I mean this data that we put together Is really stark and it's something that we just put together And going through the reports have been done over the last a few decades And pulled all this together now So I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because they haven't seen it So maybe when they see what we've we've uncovered They will come to the conclusion they have to to rally and they have to we have to come together in order to To do what's right Thank you very much Lola vt digger No questions for me today. Thank you Ed barber newport daily express Back to the room Political future You give me that some thought I'm not a lot of thought When will you make You're thinking public sometime between now and november When that's November So governor, I do understand The purpose of that the big picture is more housing. I get that I do want to return to my original question And maybe this is more for But it's listening to burlington city council meeting last night was really clear Housing first No idea no even discussion about How can we reduce the number of homeless people? And does the state have any sort of plan for perhaps linking homeless services for working on the root problems That landed people in homelessness Something like that. Yeah, we do and I'll let commissioner winters answer that more directly But that's part of the failure of the hotel motel program Was that they didn't have the service of the wraparound services. We didn't have eyes on them We didn't have helping hands to to lift them out of homelessness So This approach doing things differently so that we can provide those services to to help them Address their needs. I think would reduce homelessness in the future I think it's important to remember that one of the roots here is Having enough housing units And that's where we want to focus right now. We are doing a lot of work To connect people to services mental health services Substance use services Other health care employment training. That's work that happens every day in the agency of human services But we really need to focus on Units for people to move into more stable situations And be able to move on with their lives Is there any sense chris? Saying we're going to help you with housing, but you must not not just we're offering not just we're mentioning But as a requirement for ongoing help you need to work on your substance abuse mental health domestic abuse Uh with work skills Whatever it is Identified as the reason they're there a quick quote of some It really depends on the individual that is how a lot of shelter situations operate With the legislation that was passed for the june 30 cohort Those folks are required to be connected to coordinated entry And work with case workers. So there is some of that in the existing system Thank you Well, what do you expect? I think the last question would be what do you expect that to look like If and when we have these shelters online By april or maybe further out. I mean some some have already criticized the The plan saying that you know 30 or maybe more people living In a room like this. It's not necessarily a therapeutic or an easy scenario or setting to to Get back on your feet and access these services Yeah, again, those are those are contingency plans and we would love to have Uh much less need there by having more housing units They're not having to make those contingency plans by having fewer people in homelessness By having less need for emergency shelters congregate situations are not ideal especially for families and we'll have to explore all all sorts of different options for those shelters Come april first Long before april first Again, calvin. I just wanted To make sure that we point out It isn't lost on us that the families aren't appropriate in some of those settings But there are other ways to deal with that and and I I don't think we put out any plan At this point about what they would look like so you could take a big Area and and you could segment segment some of it off and create two different More private areas within this this shelter So it isn't this mass Auditorium where we have just beds laid out for everyone Individuals might be a different might depends on the person But we want to make sure that we respect the needs of families as well and kids Thank you all very much