 The CDC shocked a lot of people when they announced a new guideline for COVID-19 masking saying people vaccinated against COVID-19 can go without masks indoors and outdoors. Now this is great news. They base this off of new studies that conclude that not only are you very, very well protected against the virus if you've been fully vaccinated, but on top of that, you're less likely to spread the virus to other individuals because if you've been vaccinated, then you're less likely to have a larger viral load, which infects other people. So it's really good news to get this information and these studies. The issue is without the enforcement of some sort of system or vaccine passports, how exactly is this enforceable? How exactly are businesses supposed to determine who is and isn't vaccinated? Well, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, they're just going to use the honor system. So more than 40 percent of adults, we should note, still are not fully vaccinated. Some are partially, but not fully. There's no real way right now to track who's vaccinated, who isn't vaccinated. There's a lot of resistance to any sort of vaccine passport. But how are restaurants, airlines, others supposed to know if the people coming to their establishments or their vehicles without masks really have the right to not, well, we all have a right to do whatever we want, but really have the CDC guidance supporting they're not wearing masks. Well, Jake, they will not be able to know. I mean, you're going to be depending on people being honest enough to say whether they were vaccinated or not and responsible enough to be wearing a vaccine, excuse me, a mask, not only for their own protection, but also for the protection of others. So in other words, we'll be trusting people like this. What could go wrong? Now, listen, I feel frustrated with this, right, because on one hand, the vaccines work. That's what the CDC is communicating here. And that's really important. And it could be used by the CDC to encourage people to vaccinate. Look, if you don't want to wear a mask anymore, get vaccinated and you no longer have to. The issue is that this comes at a time when not everyone is fully vaccinated. In fact, we're about 50 percent of the population having received at least one shot, but there's still a lot of people not fully vaccinated. Myself included. I mean, I had my second shot, but it's not until the two week point after your second dose, we're considered fully vaccinated. And furthermore, people who are eligible for the vaccine were 18 as of April 19th, they're still not fully vaccinated and children aren't able to get vaccinated yet. So this raises a lot of questions and this guideline is pretty vague and it's led to organizations like the National Nurses United Union to condemn the CDC here. As Julia Conley of Common Dreams reports, the largest nurses union in the United States is calling on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to revoke the guidance on mask wearing and social distancing that the agency released last week, calling the significantly skilled back guidelines dangerous as the U.S. and other countries continue to face the coronavirus pandemic and new variants of COVID-19. National Nurses United circulated a petition over the weekend gathering signatures of Americans who were confused and alarmed by the CDC's new guidance. Soon after, the union released a statement condemning public health authorities for recommending that fully vaccinated people stop wearing masks and social distancing in most situations. Quote, this newest CDC guidance is not based on science, does not protect public health and threatens the lives of patients, nurses and other frontline workers across the country, said Bonnie Castillo, executive director of NNU and a registered nurse. Now is not the time to relax protective measures and we are outraged that the CDC has done just that while we are still in the midst of the deadliest pandemic in a century. The union expressed particular concern for how the new guidance would leave public facing workers, including grocery store employees and healthcare workers vulnerable as business establishments will have no way of making sure unmasked people are vaccinated against the coronavirus. Quote, people have been asking us, I don't understand. How am I going to know if the person next to me is not unmasked because they're fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated, refused to be vaccinated, have conditions that don't allow them to be vaccinated, said Gene Ross, co-president of NNU in a video the group released Sunday. Well, we share that confusion and I tend to agree with the National Nurses United. I get that you want to incentivize mask wearing, right? But there are other ways to do that if that's actually the CDC's intent here. I mean, you can have incentives to where you give people a tax break or in, I think it's Ohio or Oklahoma. No, I think it's Ohio. They're offering to enroll people who get vaccinated in a lottery and they're giving five residents a million dollars each. I think that things like this are important, but for something like this, especially when you offer a little to no guidelines and you just say people who are fully vaccinated no longer have to wear masks, this could backfire. Because again, not everyone can get vaccinated and not everyone who wants to be vaccinated is fully vaccinated yet, including children. So in an interview with CNN, the CDC director, Rachelle Walensky, was asked about this. Like, what does this mean for people with children who are afraid that people will abuse the honor system inevitably so and maybe endanger their kids? And her answer didn't provide much clarity. Let's just get practical here. Is it safe for that unvaccinated child, even in a mask to be in a grocery store when people around them could be unmasked and not following the honor system because they're not vaccinated? Thank you for that question. We were going to be at this period of time. We knew that there was going to be a time where we had the majority of Americans who wanted to be vaccinated, vaccinated, and yet the children were not going to be eligible yet. And we are working really hard. Let's celebrate the fact that this week we also got news that we can vaccinate our 12 to 15 year olds. We hope by the fall, by the end of this year we'll have kids eligible at even younger ranges. And what we're saying is those kids should continue to wear a mask in those settings. We recognize the challenge of parents who can't leave their kids at home should be masked in those settings and to the best of their ability to keep a distance. Those, the recommendations for those settings have not changed. And do you trust that people who are not vaccinated, given what we've seen over the past year plus, will actually keep their masks on? You know, I think that people who were not inclined to wear a mask were not inclined to wear a mask before Thursday. But some of them were mandated to do so and those mandates are lifting in part because of your new guidelines. Yes, and what we're really asking in those settings is to say, in terms of the honor system people have to be honest with themselves. You're protected if you're vaccinated, you're not if you're not vaccinated. But again, not everyone is fully vaccinated. And this is the same CDC director who just a month or so ago warned of impending doom because of a rise in cases. Now I get cases are down, vaccinations are up and the vaccines work. That's great news. But the question is, how do you enforce something like this when we don't know who is and isn't vaccinated? An honor system very clearly isn't going to work in a country of people who have been lying and raised issues with the mask mandates. But I mean, sure, it makes sense to want to incentivize the vaccines by saying, look, your life can kind of return to normal if you get vaccinated. It's just this raises so many questions that aren't answered by the CDC, which is why I'm inclined to believe that what they did here is irresponsible. Now, what happened over the weekend was many retailers such as Costco and Walmart did in fact just lift the mask mandates and asked whether or not the CDC anticipated this happening. Rachelle Walensky didn't really give an answer. She just basically evaded the question. Did you mean for this guidance to result in stores and local governments lifting those mask mandates? Good morning, Dana. Thanks for having me. I think we should just take a moment and pause and celebrate where we are in this moment. Cases have come down by about a third just in the last two weeks. Our death rates are as low as they have been since April of 2020. So, and vaccines are available and eligible. Everyone is eligible above the age of 12. So, we have a plenty of vaccine and the science as you just conveyed demonstrate that they work. And so that is what allowed us to make this guidance at the individual level. This was a first step. It was foundational guidance. Everybody is really thinking about what this means now at this moment, 16 months later, as we really think about opening up. And we needed to sort of set this foundation based in the science to make sure people understood as they make their recommendations moving forward. And we are doing the hard work with them to make those recommendations. Yeah, and I understand what you mean about a first step, but can you see, since this is big news for every American, can you see how your guidance that vaccinated people can take their masks off? But requirements from businesses, local governments to keep the masks on are sending a mixed message. Here's what I know. I know that we need to do the hard work. This was individual guidance to understand what this means for communities, what this means for businesses. We know at the individual level, the vaccinated people are safe. More than one third of Americans have been vaccinated over 45% of adults above the age of 18. Those people are safe when they get vaccinated after they're fully vaccinated. For those who are unvaccinated, we're really asking those businesses to work hard to make sure that they have available vaccine for those people so that they have paid time off so that they can get their employees vaccinated. And for those people, we really are asking them to get vaccinated or wear masks to keep themselves safe. So we're relying on the honor system not just at the individual level, but at the business level as well. We're supposed to assume that businesses out of the kindness of their hearts will allow their employees to take some time off to get vaccinated and perhaps take a couple of days off after their second dose if they experience side effects. I mean, do you understand why this is so confusing? And let me just say the CDC director should be clear, should answer questions as clearly as possible, not evade questions like a politician. So this is really frustrating to me because again, I kind of see why the CDC would do this to incentivize people to take the vaccine and it's based in science. If you're vaccinated, you're good. You're basically able to resume your activities as you did before the pandemic. But at the same time, what I'm worried about are the people who are inevitably going to abuse this system who refuse to get vaccinated and don't wanna wear a mask. Of course, they're just gonna lie and say, yeah, I'm vaccinated, mask comes off. Cases continue to spread because of folks like this and individuals who aren't yet fully vaccinated, individuals who are immunocompromised can't get the vaccine. Then they have to pay the price. It's just, it feels weird. There should have been more clarification with this statement. And again, I am not a public health official, so feel free to disregard any and everything that I'm saying right now. But I'm just sharing my opinion. I think that what should have happened was they should have delayed this new guideline at least for a month or so. So that way, anyone who finally became eligible, the general population as of April 19th would be fully vaccinated when this goes into effect. It is the case that if you're fully vaccinated, you don't really have to worry about this, but there's a lot of folks who still kind of do have to worry about unmasked people spreading their germs. People like my nephew who just turned 18 and got the vaccine, but he's not yet vaccinated. He'll get his second shot in the beginning of June, I believe, and then two weeks after that, around mid-June, he'll be fully vaccinated. I mean, what about these people? And to me, my issue with this is that masks are the easiest, most convenient thing we can do to stop the spread of the virus. So are they really that big of an impediment to our daily lives and routines that you have to issue this new directive right now? Again, it is based on the science. I don't agree with the statement by NNU that this isn't based on science necessarily, because it is. Studies show that the vaccines are highly effective in the real world, and that if you have the vaccine, you're less likely to spread the disease to other individuals. But at the same time, it just seems like this is a little bit too early. But I mean, what do I know? I'm just an individual and I just want us to get through this. So whatever we can do to actually permanently get through this, I'm all for that. It's just that this doesn't seem all that thought out, especially when the CDC was overly cautious for months and then they just change it on a dime like that. I don't get it. It's frustrating, and I think it's irresponsible at a minimum for the CDC to just do this, make this new announcement and then absolutely provide us with nothing in terms of what we're supposed to do to enforce this. It's not good. We'll just, we'll put it like that and leave that there.