 Felly, ydw'n wrth i eifrif yn llwyddon sy'n ddod, fyddwch i'n gweithio'i gwych. Mae'n gweithio yma datblynedd, fel cymryd digital o'r dweud. Felly, mae'n gwneud am dda, wedi'i cyfysgau cyfysgau gyda dwyf durfodol, yn ymweld i gaelu'r hunach, y llyfrfr y byddol i gaelu'r ysgrifennu, ac ydych chi'n ddefnyddio'n meddwl i'r meddwl? Y ddefnyddio'n meddwl i ddefnyddio'n meddwl i'w meddwl i'r meddwl i'ch trefyn o'r unrhyw ymddangos sy'n meddwl i'r meddwl i ddefnyddio ar gyfer architectur ar gyfer y peth o wneud i ddefnyddio'r team yn ffild. So rhai adnod reif y ddechrau, dwi'n anyfod difficulte i ddechrau eich cyfweld ymwyaf o'i gweithiwn sefydliad ddweud y cyfweld di 25 ogillion maes yma. Di wneud i ddechrau eich cyffreifau yn mynd i'i ddefnyddio hynny o gweld i ddechrau i ddechrau, a ddim ond y gallai cyfweld i ddechrau i ddechrau i ddechrau i ddechrau eich cyfweld i'r lyfan a'r hyn,接下來's leaders as they are transforming the enterprise to deal with digital disruption. I am going to talk through a few examples there of what that team is bringing back to the centre because overall, my role is charged with driving new revenue from new emerging technology as it relates to what the customers want to buy, not necessarily what we currently have as a portfolio. tuition, and then in the last part, I'm going to talk through some practical examples of what that means in terms of a culture change, because there's quite a significant change from what we've been used to as enterprise architects engaging on large scale transformations to the level of agility and speed that is required and demanded by business now as they engage on digital transformation. ac mae'r ystyried yn ymddi'r cyflawn. Yn 2015, rydyn ni'n 7 ymddir i'r spin-out yng Nghymru, mae'r hynny'n gyflawni ar gyfer mae'r cyflawni wedi'i gweithio gyda'r cyflawni CSE a rydyn ni'n hynny'n gyflawni'r spin-out yn 2015. Mae'r cyflawni'r cyflawni, 42 ariol yn yr ysgol, fel y gallai ysgolwyr, Senybail, Caerdaf, ac yw Westford, Mae'r Cyflawni, ac mae'n cyflawni ar gyfer yw Lleic. Crossing, if you don't know, is a teams-type product that is used for teamwork. Interestingly, as I joined as the CTO, my job was to go pitch to venture capitalists, to get additional funding as the CTO. I was also the VP of engineering, so as I arrived, I tried to understand the architecture behind the product we were building. As I went to see the product owner and the senior developers, they actually said to me, we don't actually have any documentation. You will have to read the code to find out what we're building as a product. Which I was just flabbergasted by because I'm used to at least the big picture diagram. Now, in the toolset we were using, which was at Lassian, a product called Jira for managing tasks and issues. There's also a wiki part called Confluence. In the Confluence website, so think about this as a Wikipedia page, I did actually find a diagram. It was by FrogDesign, so FrogDesign was the agency that was originally used to design the product. It was a business model canvas by any name. It didn't look like a BMC that I recognised, but it actually covered all the attributes. The short story to that is that the architecture artefacts had got lost between the original design of the product and what the developers were building. There was no longer an association strictly between what was originally designed as the problem that was being solved and what the product was actually being built. They took me some time to recover that. Now, scaled forward to about a month ago, 27th March. I was in Manila at the Association of Enterprise Architects, an open group forum where architects get together in Manila in the Philippines. I shout out to that whole association of enterprise architects and they get together. It was more by happenstance than by design that I was at the open group conference. I had planned to go visit a delivery organisation that's based out of Manila. We have 6,000 people. I have two locations in Manila that are working on various solutions and projects. I wanted to go meet them as it related to digital skills. The war on talent from Deloitte refers. How do we better access delivery organisations, not in the traditional cheaper skills offshore, but how do we leverage talent that we've got offshore to work on digital transformation projects? I turned up at this Association of Enterprise Architects hoping to do a quick 30 minute pitch and they disappear off to talk to the delivery group. I spent two days at the open group, Architects Conference, because it was all about this issue about how do you move to an agile architecture approach in a world that is moving so quickly that the traditional approaches around enterprise architecture don't really work. I'll cover that theme through this presentation in the three parts that I mentioned. Can you believe it's been seven years since Mark Andreessen wrote his seminal article in the Wall Street Journal around software is eating the universe. It's been seven years. It almost feels a cliche now to talk to enterprises about being software-oriented or building a software engineering function at the core of their capability. It's only about three years now since AI has had a hype and has actually been moving in heavy in the startup world. Three years ago, four years ago, if you were to talk to more startups, they were talking about photo sharing and these kind of live streaming products, if you remember, the sort of ones that were going round at the time. But now, Jensson Wang from NVIDIA has recently posted saying, well, if software was eating the universe seven years ago, AI is going to eat software. We live in this world of significant disruption driven by these key trends and investments that are going on in technical disruptors. But we all know this, right? In the enterprises, I'm just trying to go forward here, so in the enterprises we deal with, they see this every day, right? They are being disrupted by competitors and by startups who are a lot more nimble in terms of the customer experience, exploiting new kinds of technology that are available. In fact, I was in the national parks in Wyoming just a few weeks ago and everywhere I went, it said no drones, right? When did you see that kind of sign before, right? No drones allowed. We even know this from the UK. Gatwick Airport was disrupted significantly by a drone attack, let's call it. So if the enterprise is being disrupted, it's because the consumers are very much embracing this change and driving it and you don't need me to tell you that. You know this, right? So here's the story of Claire and Alex. These are future people or maybe not so future if you think about it. So Claire is a working mum. She lives life. She shops but she never visits a shop. She's always online, never really logs on, optimises her digital ratings in real time, never gets lost, drives a car but hasn't quite learned to drive yet, has three jobs tailored to her family life and rarely does house work, has a robot called John. Now I did on Black Friday by a Eufy EU FY, I'm not advertising it, I'm just telling you, vacuum cleaner and it does the vacuuming pretty well. I mean it docks itself, charges itself up, it's on the ground floor, it's not all done yet. It's one of the things that will move on the first floor but this kind of stuff exists. My son is 26, he lives in London, went to university in London, decided to work in London, he's a data scientist as it happens and he does not have a car. In fact he hasn't learnt to drive because he's betting that by 2023 or something he's got a day worked out there will be cars that will be autonomous so why does he have to spend all this money learning to drive? I wish he would learn to drive though because on long journeys to New Castle it's dad who has to do the driving. Now here's Alex, just started work after university, absolutely loves his job. He's a maintenance engineer for a large manufacturer, he's got a smart watch that allows him to navigate to different facilities, a tablet that displays his schedule and work orders, smart glasses that provide machine instructions, we're doing some work there with real headsets, real wear headsets as well as HoloLens, HoloLens 2 coming out soon, smart glasses that display those instructions but with videos and voice command integrated, with an expert AI coach on demand if he doesn't really understand how to do something and he operates like a seasoned pro, he's only been working for two weeks. How far off do we really think this is? I was with Microsoft in Redmond last week and almost every single one of these scenarios was demonstrated, not as theory but as real use cases with customers. So this technology exists, now these GenZ, yes not millennials, GenZ coming into the workforce have significant expectations of what work is going to be like as they move in, trying to move forward. So we're in this third wave of innovation, it's the post cloud intelligence and automation wave, I'm not going to go into detail in here, the main thing you should notice is there's many more things on the right than there were on the left and even on the right, if you just pick line number four, IoT sensors, 3D printing at serverless are probably four distinct, in fact they are four distinct topics, we just didn't have it in the room on the right hand side. The other thing is that the technologies on the left matured probably together or if not together were implemented in large scale programs, what's happening on the right is these technologies are maturing at different rates and are being tested at different rates and are significantly impacting existing enterprises. Now it's difficult to keep abreast of all of these technologies let alone understand how to implement them. More importantly, if I can go right here, here we go, what we've seen is disruption in existing technologies including my own industry IT services, so who would have thought Amazon would be a 20 billion dollar cloud services provider, it was a bookstore, would it have disrupted the HP public cloud that we originally invested in and HP are no longer in the public cloud business, so IT services and telecoms were the first major industries that were disrupted. Disrupted in the bottom half of this diagram actually means disintermediated or replaced by somebody else, so telco was disrupted in terms of over the top providers so we're probably all using WhatsApp or various applications today rather than using SMS text messages, but we also see this with Uber taxis, with Airbnb that was mentioned earlier on and so on and so forth. What's important in this diagram is that there's been little disruption above the line up to now in aerospace, defence, in healthcare, in accounting, in law and I'll just bring this back to my son, he was actually interesting becoming an actuary, so he did a chemical engineering degree at Imperial College, I think he should have gone and worked for Johan in Shell, but decided he wanted to be an actuary and after three interviews in loads of London they convinced him not to become an actuary but to become a data scientist because their view is over time actuary work will be automated, some of that risk management and so you can see now where data and AI is starting to augment the professions in the top half of this diagram, so this is where now traditional enterprises that we've worked with, aerospace manufacturers, defence manufacturers, engine manufacturers, et cetera and are really interested in how technology is going to impact their enterprise and all of them are looking to aspire to provide simpler, more relevant customer experiences, be leaders for innovation and operate digital first organisational systems but there's some significant challenges as they try and do that because I'll pick an engine manufacturer, an aircraft, an aeroplane engine manufacturer like Rolls Royce, who's one of our customers, the link through to the real customer is somewhat distant because the engine is put on to an airframe that is sold to a, that is manufactured into an aeroplane sold to a leasing company that is used by an operator like Singapore Airlines or British Airways, so there's some distance between the engine and the actual real consumer who is Sukigill sound seat 20A, if I could get a window seat and consuming the service but to bring this to life for Rolls Royce you have to tell the story in the eyes of the real consumer of the service, right, the real citizen or the consumer who's going to use the service, so the story I tell typically about this is imagine that if I'm in an aircraft flying to Dublin and the pilot comes on and says thank you for boarding on time there is actually a fault with the engine we don't know when it's going to be fixed but thanks for boarding on time that's a frustrated consumer citizen but if the message was something like thanks for boarding on time there was a fault with the engine but we diagnosed it inbound there was a Rolls Royce engineer waiting to fix it has been fixed on time we're doing the final test we're going to take off on time that's a happy consumer now for that experience though from me it should be invisible but for Rolls Royce to enable that is all data driven now they do sell flying hours or thrust you know power by the hour is the sort of service architecture Rolls Royce and they have a part of their business which is called Rolls Royce data labs which is very much focused on data strategy as Johann talked earlier on in the oil industry equivalent and we find that that's all because they're trying to really understand how to provide this full-in to end service and customer experience but once they really understand the data in their enterprise it also leads to business model innovation some of this enabled through platforms but ultimately to monetise the data now in that particular example you really do get into arguments about who owns the data is the data actually owned by Rolls Royce is it owned by the leasing company is it owned by the airframe company is it owned by the operator is it in fact owned by the airport who connects to that airplane to provide maintenance services when the plane actually docks for oil for petroleum etc and that data becomes a really valuable asset as we move forward so in summary we when we talk to business customers and enterprise it find that in the middle circle here a lot of the conversations are around customer experience process transformation and business model innovation no longer are these conversations starting from the premise of how do I reduce cost but how do I provide the business agility that I need to to my enterprise and to my C suite to enable them to really look at how they want to drive the the enterprise forward and on the left hand side the three truths I've already covered that digital consumers will drive this they're waiting for next adoption in fact on the open group slide I saw a picture of a bridge and I quickly was looking in my app in my on my phone for an app that would tell me what the bridge was now there was a colleague sat next to me who said that's hot hipney bridge but you know I was I was a consumer as a consumer I wanted outhand something that would identify that bridge so I could go and have a look at it tonight and so the consumers are really in control they're defining the next move they have a voracious appetite for a kind of capability platforms are what are really disrupting these value chains and clearly we know of you know in terms of market capitalisation some of the biggest companies are platform companies that exist today but the winners in terms of enterprises will be those who exploit those platform effects you do need to think about your own platform but exploiting those existing platforms becomes key now I'll come on to this piece around economic value add and return on vested capital through the next diagram because this build is important now traditionally as DXC technology we have mostly engaged with enterprise IT and enterprise IT still has a habit of looking at how to reduce cost first before they look at how to enable business and typically that's because they're driven under the CF organisation in terms of a cost to the business rather than a true enablement but when you go talk to the business the business is looking for these things in the middle business model innovation customer experience process transformation now if you though look at the middle circle here digital core and you treat that digital core as your digital platform as the platform that you will build to enable those three things on the outer edges the business model customer experience and process transformation what you'll find is that digital core will enable and I'll come on to explain what that is will enable those but as a minimum it will reduce the marginal cost of operating a business now which CEO is not interested in reducing the cost of operating the business in fact when we start talking to most C suite executives and we look at the KPIs there's something in there about free cash flow around cost of operating the business that is always in the top level KPIs so this diagram talks to the the fact that done right modernising your digital core your IT and your way of doing IT on your existing platforms today can reduce the marginal cost of your business but if it's done right it could also enable new value streams so this is the world of microservices and APIs which says if I can improve the cost of operating the business in a way that is driven by an enterprise architecture approach it will also unlock the new value streams but you can't do this in a big bang you have to do this in a very iterative way a continuous process of introducing exploiting digital platforms and the example that Johan gave earlier on around the work at Shell around introducing that sort of platform separating the applications from the data to enable new applications to be built to that new interface was a good example of that so just trying to move this on okay in that middle of that diagram the digital core you can't Google digital core and buy or there isn't a skew or or a product that you can go buy call the digital core but it was is used significantly in many consulting type presentations around build your digital core so what does it mean so in our view this means your existing applications delivered in a agile way to provide new experiences it means automate everything in a software defined everything where and it means enabling the enterprise through hybrid cloud so you know adopting cloud as the default not necessarily as an infrastructure service but as a system of innovation a system of engagement managing enterprise risk in a connected world empowering workforces with invisible it and thriving on enterprise data and analytics all topics that were covered in the Deloitte presentation so nothing new there but here's the piece that's missing that is probably most important there's a different way of doing it that is really important here and I'll come on to that as a real problem that is faced as enterprises move forward okay sorry struggling to move slide on you could just page on see if you can move the slide on please it's flashing red here so I don't know why it's not receiving can you page forward thank you so start from the inside out though this is the danger as enterprise architects we're very familiar with the existing applications the existing infrastructure the existing data assets while we need to understand all of the disruptions that are going around we need to start from the outside in from the value chain and from the KPIs the business care about so when you go speak to somebody at Rolls Royce that's in IT they probably will talk to you about end-of-life issues on network switches in the data centre but when you go talk to somebody in the factory that is building engines they'll talk to you about the speed of building fan blades to process the number of engines they need to build for the backorder of airplanes and so the language and the Babelfish role of enterprise architects is to talk that language on the outside of this this circle in the middle which is typically the process language and which is typically the language of the business in the factory as it relates to this example and use that language to say what is the problem that we can help you with quantify the problem in the language and then as Babelfish so this is the enterprise architects ability to speak both business language and then turn inwards and then speak the language inside of systems of insight systems of engagement the automation the continuous delivery and orchestrate the assets now in traditional approach around enterprise architecture I have to say that we we tend to produce volumes of content before we produce anything tangible and if you go speak to somebody in the factory and say I've got an idea about how to improve the number of fan blades the first thing they're going to say is what is that idea and can you show me something not can you show me a lot of documentation a lot of diagrams can you show me a demonstration of what you're proposing and so as we typically engage with business customers in the language they speak about we try and visualize and this is my first set of recommendations visualize the value chain and KPI so we use story boards of that customer experience I give you one of the Rolls-Royce sort of engine and the customer impact and we try to understand the velocity through that value chain so how long does it take for a design from the design of an engine to move quickly through the process to impact the actual manufacture of an engine and then what does that mean in terms of maintenance repair and overhaul so the value chain from design through to engineering through to fitting on to an airframe through to maintenance repair and overhaul understand that value chain end to end of the velocity through it turn this business value framework that I'm describing above into a KPI dashboard and very quickly using data and analytics try to get to a understanding of the KPI how many fan blades per day what is it today and what does it need to look like what then are the technology disruptors or the business disruptors that will enable that can I envision a concept or an idea that would help improve that that I could show you quickly and understand the stakeholders appetite for risk and ambition and what we're finding is rarely do we have a business customer who says no to an idea about how you will improve their KPIs if you get down to the operational KPIs the business KPIs and you can actually say things like I'll do this risk free I'm sorry I'll do this at no cost if you don't like what I propose then you don't need to buy anything right and this is mostly because my group is actually trying to truly understand next slide truly understand and this is now switching to sort of the second part try to understand what customers want to buy and what we should be building as DXC technology so we use this framework I'm going to go through this really quickly we use business value frameworks for every industry 22 industries that we work in we create these executive financial operational KPIs we try and understand the business strategies and we understand which accounts in DXC a map to these industry segments so we can work out what the business challenges are then we look at the industry disruption as well as the technology disruption in these innovation agenda road maps we create a road map unconstrained to our current offerings and our current delivery capability that we have on that account to really understand what we should be focused on and then based on client risk and appetite for a solving that problem we propose a solution and then we rapidly build it so this is my 2015 experience of startup brought into the enterprise to say we need to start behaving like a lean start-up within DXC technology and we need to rapidly build products the thing is we we can't switch to do one-offs right so one of the things we've done over the last two years is we've managed to consolidate multiple portfolios into a sort of standard portfolio and we've got a cost under control the challenge would be if we did one of a kind for every customer that wanted something novel done we would end up doing the cost would go out of the room so what we do is across multiple sectors like aerospace and defence we analyse where the sweet spot is for us to play and the way we do that is using these artifacts these are not typical enterprise architecture artifacts but things we do so we use wardley mapping anybody here familiar with wardley mapping okay thank you so Simon wardley happens to work for DXC technology sort of works for DXC technology I think he is one of those evangelists out on the road talking a lot about this road mapping technique which he has donated I mean it's available for free to use he just hopes people will make it better we've heard today about pioneer settlers town planners maybe not that language but you know the concept of pioneers are good people they do good work they're different to settlers who are also good people who work in a different domain who are different to town planners now in the value chain on the left hand side we as DXC need to move from low value to high value so closer to the user needs so you can see anchoring the user needs in the top left here and we want to be left of commodity commodity is low margin competitive landscape we want to be in the custom built a product and why we want to be in that space is we want to move things that are custom to products that are going to be required by multiple customers of DXC so we use this framework a lot if I did somebody in my one of my industry chief technologies all enterprise architects comes to me and says I've got an idea for something we should do in manufacturing I'll say to him can you show me the worldly map how did you work this out now this is us is an art as much as a science and it's a it's a way of having a conversation about where we should play now once they've done that they convince me that we need to do something like a converged plant infrastructure for industrial IOT and consumer IT I would take I would move then to say well now show me the business model canvas so the business model canvas is a technique from Alex Osterwalder you can look for a strategiser template I think there's many this was the frog design diagram that I didn't find in this format in the start up but was in the in the wiki that I ultimately did discover what did I discover I found the value proposition I found what customer segment we were trying to go to and I found roughly what custom profit we were trying to build in that product but the most important part of this initially is list of value proposition to the customer segment what are you proposing to that particular customer now we run dragons dens now we then dragons den is like shark tank for is the US equivalent so dragons den so once a month I run a circle of I invite people from academia from partners and from other parts of the business and we sit five or six of us we don't really have money in hand but we ask our chief technologist to come in and pitch their business model canvases and they say to us look suki I think we really should build this because there are seven customers if you build this once there are seven of the customers who will be really interested in taking this as a service so we use this internally a lot and I am now actually betting money on particular scenarios this one included for real products to go to market now the interesting thing is this sort of exists in DXC but it doesn't exist as a go to market proposition it exists a whole bunch of reference architectures so we do have like a CRM block I'm looking at the bottom part this diagram we have CRM blocks we have technology platform blocks we have scheduling and forecasting blocks you know the traveling salesman algorithm applies we have only location blocks we have smart technician blocks they're not been aggregated into a field workforce compound at the same time I also have these data exploitation blocks like data acquisition analysis and so on imagine though the enterprise architects could pull this together and give this to a scrum team which says here are the assets in the organisation that already exists that need to be pulled together to be delivered and so this is where we're having some real success in using enterprise architects outside in looking at the real business problem what needs to be solved looking across the industry and narrowing in on a focus and then looking internally and saying it's okay this stuff exists it just happens to be in a project that we delivered in the Middle East or it happens to be in this hospital solution over here and what we need to do is refactor the components and re-orchestrate them into new value propositions so that's a lot of the work going on inside DXC so use mapping techniques to determine where to place bets Worldly Maps is one example there are many others validate ideas using a business model canvas we're finding real success with this it's easy to fill in and then lastly use a solution canvas to provide architecture context otherwise you will get lots of technical debt you will have dev teams who will go build stuff that already exists last piece the biggest problem though with all of this is the culture shift that needs to take place this is work from leading edge forum within DXC called the 21st century enterprise and it talks about multiple dimensions of change for new organisational thinking of culture Deloitte covered this briefly what we find is that understanding how we're going to work differently on the left hand side three dimensions how we're going to design differently how we're going to use platforms in the middle differently and how we're going to rapidly build things experiment fail fast trial things out becomes a new set of capabilities that we need in our delivery centres worldwide and also onshore close to the client so we're having to shift from this take orders for things we can deliver offshore to be much closer to the client to understand the problem we need to solve and how we can design that experience or that process transformation and then leverage skills offshore to do this in the middle part cloud analytics mobility and security are just like the basics if you can't navigate those you will be lost those are the table stakes but but having partners who really understand some of the other dimensions so actually within DXC we've got a set of labs that do the things above but we also rely heavily on partners which is why I was in Redmond next week and then on the right hand side if you thought you had a lot of partners to navigate as architects or IT enterprise you haven't seen anything yet you're going to end up working with a lot more smaller niche players and startups and ISVs to navigate the landscape so I'll move oh by the way don't just try and copy and I'm going to say it you're going to curse me afterwards scaled agile framework or the Spotify model or somebody else's that's merely cargo coating somebody else's culture take those as inputs and apply them to yourself and I would say that when when I get asked this question I always go back to the agile manifesto and say start here clearly Spotify in terms of tribes guilds and so on might be useful to you or the scaled agile framework which is also called the revenge of the PMO by the way if you want to google that right so those may be applicable but you have to apply them in the context of your particular enterprise so my last recommendations in this space are it's a major culture shift this way of working this speed this is a quote from somebody at Netflix so guardrails not gates context not control openly transparent about everything loosely coupled about highly aligned but these can only work if they complement your culture the design and architecture of your systems effectively mirrors the design and architecture of your organization and Deloitte covered that earlier on develop and invest in digital skills capabilities technologies think big execute small fail early turn ideas into fast prototypes and iterate this is the hardest thing that I found to try and shift within an enterprise they just don't like to fail at all at anything and they don't know how to do things at speed and at small scale fast so that's my talk today and I know I'm over time so you know if you do do this in a structured way you will find that not only can you reduce the cost of operating the business so that digital core will help provide that business agility and value but it will also enable these high level things that the business cares about process efficiency better customer experiences and business model innovation okay thank you so you talked of staying left of commodity in other words finding some products that multiple customers in an industry might might utilize um how do you see the role of leveraging standards to it to help achieve that so I thought the example from Johan was excellent right so the innovation isn't at the data lake level or at the you know aggregated data level it's actually how you use that above the line so I actually think where you need communities coming together in a consistent approach around data standards an example or even although I dissed it a little bit scaled it up framework those standards actually are relevant and applicable in helping people learn from learn lessons right learn from others people's uh if people moving ahead of them and laying those out as repeatable ways of working um uh let's see uh how would an agile approach for applications and digital experience be delivered in cases where organisations have legacy system and assets in their digital core very good so and I'm going to pick an example here so when I was talking to somebody in Rosroy's IT and this specifically said but sookie you don't understand I'm not getting enough money for modernising the network switches in the data centre I said but when the cash flow problem is the thing that matters to the CEO you need to combine this end of life problem with a problem that matters to the business which is building more engines building more fan blades so one of the things we find is that the IT is somewhat disconnected to the real challenges the business is facing over here and the role of an enterprise architect can join the two together what an enterprise architect can say is look to deliver the outcome which is more fan blades faster build of engines here are the systems that need to be improved processes to some extent the more traditional enterprise architecture and this then is the portfolio of projects that are required and there is some risk in the network level that will impact to the build out of the switches that needs to be pulled together as part of the overall programme trying to disconnect the data centre and the network from the real challenge the business is facing is what leads to these disconnected requests for money great answer thank you you started examples in manufacturing have you worked with customers all the way to the shop floor is OT different to IT yep so I can't name the customer but we are currently working on a smart factory project for a customer and the target there was the factory manager so we engage with a factory manager one of the challenges the factory had was on something called OEE it's a KPI a metric which is operational equipment effectiveness so the uptime of the machines in the factory impacts the build of product through the factory and what we found was the operational equipment effectiveness of a particular factory was way below the standard that would allow that factory to bid for future work there's now a standard emerging which says this is the kind of productivity we expect in plants to deliver this kind of capability so we looked at that threat and risk that that factory had and we proposed that by instrumenting some of the factories in the operational technology domain and getting access to that data in the IT domain we could improve the uptime of the machines and so that project was sold not to IT but sold to the business but we had to engage with IT because of the security of the data coming from the OT side to the IT side and so this is where I think engaging with the business working out specific projects and by the way that has turned into a portfolio engagement for us because we're having now this conversation in multiple factories and I'm picking manufacturing just as a theme here but that isn't the only industry we work with but then but that particular case that's the challenge there's many experiments in IoT and in operational technology space but not many have actually resulted in the true business benefit that is needs to be realised so we'll leave it there thank you very much