 Hello, and welcome to another TRADOC Leader Professional Development Discussion. I'm Sarah Halk, Command Information Chief for the TRADOC Communication Directorate, and I'll be the moderator for today's event. Things look a little bit different this time around as we are here on location in beautiful Texas. We've got an exciting discussion today about how to mold a winning team. And to help us, we've got an incredible guest who I'll introduce in just a moment. But first, I want to welcome back General Pauli Funk II, TRADOC's Commanding General. Thanks for joining us here in beautiful Texas, sir. It's always great to have you here for these LPDs. Thanks, sir. I really appreciate it. And I want to thank you again for being here. And as I mentioned earlier, we'll be discussing how to mold winning teams, and who better to join us for this topic than someone who is well versed in doing just that, Coach Dan Quinn. Coach Quinn is a defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys. He has led teams at all levels of football, beginning his career with William and Mary Tribe in 1994, and the Virginia Military Institute in 1995. He later coached the Florida Gators, and he has coached the NFL's best defense in 2013 as a defensive coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks, seeing that team to their first Super Bowl win. He later would lead General Funk's Atlanta Falcons to the 2016 Super Bowl as their head coach. And most recently, he was named NFL's 2021 Assistant Coach of the Year in his current position with the Cowboys. Welcome, Coach, and thank you so much for having us in this incredible place you get to call an office. It's an absolute honor to have you here today. Sarah, I am more than pumped to be here with you guys today. I have had this one circled on my calendar for a really long time, so I am absolutely jacked to be here with you guys and to share with everybody across the world. This is awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much again for having us. We've discussed building cohesive teams in other episodes of the Leader Development Series, but today we're going to take that one step further and talk about the importance of talent management and how you find, develop, and build a cohesive culture with that talent. For the Army, talent management means getting soldiers into the positions where they can thrive using their knowledge and skills. Ensuring individuals are in the most appropriate position is vital to a team's success. We're going to dig into exactly how to support the growth and development of each member of a cohesive team and how to build a foundational culture through discipline processes. Just a reminder, before we get started, we want you to be part of this discussion. Leave your questions in the comments section of wherever you're tuned in at, and we'll try to get them answered during the event. With that, we're going to go ahead and get started. Coach Quinn, the questions for you first. You've functioned that you've got lots of experience with the military, and so could you describe the similarities that you've seen between the athletes and teams that you've coached and how Treyduck and the Army as a whole builds, trains, and recruits their teams? I would say, number one, I love teaching, and so I think that's really the part of coaching that I enjoy the most, and so how do some of the worlds coincide and where the similarities are? I think it first starts with connection and knowing that for us, you know, you're playing for something that's bigger than yourself, and when you start with that piece first in our world, knowing the man before the player and knowing that connection, I'll feed your family and you feed mine, that kind of connection, knowing that, you know, we're trying to do something that's really difficult, really challenging, and it's going to take all of us in different ways to do that. To take it further, it's really important to find roles, you know, as you're part of a team, because not everybody's going to have the same role, and so finding the unique things that different people bring to a team is the best, and that's why I love being on a team, like we're all so different and come from different backgrounds, different ways, the way we talk, the way we think, and so when we start connecting and finding out there's a new way and a new way to look at things, and new perspectives, and a new energy with that, I love it because even year to year, not every team that I'm on is the same, you know, no team stays the same from year to year, so there might be some themes that stay the same, but you're still rebuilding that connection of if you really want to get great at something, you're not going to go there by yourself. Absolutely, and I think that plays right into how we recruit our individuals right now, so when we're recruiting individuals, how do we get to know the man before the athlete? That's a great question, and frankly, our recruiters are the ones that close the deal, right? So they attract young men and women who are interested but not yet committed, right? So what that does is you meet them at where they are, where their humanity is right then, and then you become part of their journey, and as you become like a coach, that recruiter becomes part of the journey, and they always center back on how well that recruiter sells the arm, right? But it's not just sale, but it's also you got to live it. So Dan's really good about describing, you know, culture and how he goes through those pieces, but you know, he taught me a long time ago that you can take something like the Band of Brothers culture and apply that across any spectrum of what organization you're in, right? But it has to be lived, it can't just be spoken, it has to be lived. So it's a really neat perspective. For us, our recruiters are the first connection you have to the arm, and how well they show themselves and really detail what it is it means to be in our great army. That either opens or closes doors for young men and women. And we've talked a little bit about culture already. So, and you mentioned that there's some themes that do change over time as times change, the team evolves and those kinds of things. But what kind of foundational themes are kind of non-negotiables, non-changing, the army has our non-negotiables that there are core values that those are never going to change, got to live them every day. So how does how does a professional athlete, athletic team do those kind of build that kind of culture, non-negotiables? Well, I think first on a team, it had better be agreed upon by the team. Because if there's just a rule that I put down as a coach and say, this is our culture, it doesn't mean everybody is going to follow that. So I think I can guide them in some ways to say for me, some non-negotiables would just be that hustle, that tough ass competitive mindset that it takes to play really hard nose defense. Like, you have to live that at practice. You have to live that at the game. And so you can't just turn it on game day. You have to actually live it. And that's the life you live as a player. Say, if I'm going to be about this life, I've got to put out and have the energy. Because for me, I can do the correcting on mistakes that could happen. But I want to make sure the top of the pile for me is that effort and that real dog competitor mindset to say that has to be at the top of the pile. And then underneath that, just our respect for one another and how we can push one other and have conversations. But I like at the start of each year, Sarah, to discuss it with the team to say, what are some non-negotiables for us? And how to because if it comes from the player or in your case comes from the soldiers, sometimes it can take it a little further. Because this is what we said we were going to be about, not what Dan said we were going to be about. Well, that's right. That's buying, right? That's absolutely what it is, yeah. And so the trust takes time to build. We know that. And you've got to be consistent over time. But I think if you just keep saying this is how we're going to live here at work together, that's our culture, how we operate and live together. And so I would imagine in your world, sometimes going away on a deployment, sometimes that culture and connection gets even stronger because of your time away. And it is just us. The bond between the soldiers who have fought in combat together is unlike anything else. It really is. I mean, it's almost husband and wife-ish. I mean, it literally is. I say this all the time. It's actually the most elite fraternity and sorority in the world, right? The combat soldier. And you hold each other accountable to those things. Right. Imagine you could see somebody years from now and say, I was here with him or her. And you pick up a conversation. You had 20 years ago. Same thing. Yeah, it's exactly right. I just was with a bunch of my buddies at a retirement this weekend. And right then, we were all transferred back. My dad is the same way. He still has a reunion with his air cavalry troop from Vietnam. He still gets folks from there. It's fascinating. Yeah, that connection is like a team, right? You've been through the gauntlet together. And so finding moments to live that life together where you're connected in an extension of one another. And so I think even when a good play happens, it's really important to show in my world, hey, this play happened because of this block that, you know, like everybody sees the touchdown and 100,000 people are rough, but it only took place because of this protection or because of the precise spot of the router. The quarterback had to just wait a split second before he was going to get lit up as he threw. But knowing that was going to be the difference. And so those small moments where you're able to deliver for one another and not just say it, but come through for one another. To me, that's part of culture too, to say like, I ain't just saying it. I'm backing it up and I'm living it with you. I like to catch people doing things right. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's a prime example. That's the right block at that time. That's the right, the right read on that route, whatever it is. I agree with you. You catch people doing things right. It's contagious. Yeah. Absolutely. It's the foundation and the strength of the foundation of a culture that really continues to drive individuals to be the best that they can. And so my question would be for both of you, and we'll start with Coach Quinn, is for talent management, how do you ensure that these athletes continue to want to be the best, continue to want to make that block to get our guys into the end zone? And so it would be the same thing. How do we continue to push our soldiers through talent management and leader development and training and those kinds of things? How do we push them to keep being a valuable team member? Well, I would say first to me, it's the roles that are established on any team, your team, my team. And so oftentimes when a new player or new soldier comes on to a team, they're not even sure what that role may be at. And it's our job as the leaders to help that vision come to life. In my case, there could be a guy coming from college and they played in a certain system. And now here, here's what we'd like you to do. And it takes a little bit of time to watch and to give someone some, some responsibility to see how they handle some of that responsibility and what are they excellent at. And so sometimes I may use what's your superpower and what's your kryptonite and trying to find, I can do this one thing as good or better than anybody. Let's try to feature that person in that role. Now it may not be the role catching the touchdown pass. It may be the backup linebacker that can play three different positions. It may be the practice squad offensive lineman that is help getting someone else ready. But that may not be the role you thought about early, but this is what the team needs from you. And to me, that's the probably the most critical part of the talent management because not everybody will be thrilled all the time with their role. And I got a question on that too. It is really important to recognize the importance of those roles, brother to brother, coach to coach, player to player because if you have that mindset to know that hey, no job is not my job and if this is one I have to do for us to win, then I'm down for that. So basically what you're describing in my opinion is accountability to each other and followership too, which are really important to leadership as well. So you have to be, in order to be a good leader, you have to be a good follower too. You have to be able to take instruction what the coaches are looking for, what your fellow players are looking for and same is true with soldiers, right? We all have a boss, all of us in the military and consequently you got to be a good follower too. You got to have the strength of character to say, yeah, okay, I recognize this and then hold each other accountable to achieve in the effect, right? Absolutely. And when you do deliver on those roles and people see it, man, you'd be surprised how awesome that role can be. And so this wouldn't have happened had it not, the TV won't know and airbills, but the people in that locker room, they'll know. That's right. And that builds cohesion. That's right. It really does. And it's, you know, that cohesive, the glue that holds a team, the team, whether it be an army team or the Dallas Cowboys, that's what, I mean, you know, that's what holds the team together is the glue of everyone in understanding the role and committing to each other. Absolutely. And the good team that I've been on has been really good in the locker room first. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Your locker room may be different, but you can use the analogy of a locker room or, you know, this small group, I'm not talking the specific locker room itself, but I'm saying the culture, the attitude, the camaraderie, the connections. When that group is together, that's the best teams I've been a part of. I would wholeheartedly agree with that. My question to both of you is for talent management, it doesn't stop, especially for the army, it doesn't stop at our individual who wears a uniform. It's our supporting roles in our civilians and because the army's one big team and every person's important. So how do we build a culture where we focus on the talent of everyone and kind of be sure that along the same lines as the roles, everyone understands that they have a role. But how do we pull those extra people in and let them know that we want them to continue to be a piece of this cohesive team and we care about their talent management? So how do we manage the talent of the supporting actors, kind of the background actors, especially at TreyDoc? How do we do that to support our civilians or those? That's right. I think what you've got to do is catch people doing things right and then celebrate them when you get the opportunity, right? And it's right then and it's got to be fast. And it also has to be, it can't be fake, right? It's got to mean something, right? Don't let your contribution to the war effort be dictated by how close you are to the front lines, right? Everybody's got a role to play, just like Coach Quinn was talking about. Everybody's got a role to play. Your role may be the person that tells the story, right? And you've got to tell it in such a way as it brings honor and respect and reinforces the cohesive nature of our team. That builds competence and also builds the character of an organization. Now I would agree with General Funk on that. I think the term that I would use is gratitude. And unspoken gratitude can often be seen as no gratitude. Yeah. And so it's really important for us to recognize that's a kick-ass job. Yes, that's right. That could have been done better. Right. And the way we throw practice was the equipment staff or the training staff or somebody who rehabs a player to come back, the video people that shoot a practice. So oftentimes our jobs can be just do this and that's all you do. But recognizing the importance that it has to do with winning to me is really important. And when we get chances to do that, it's good. And I think as leaders, it's our job to also tell General Funk, hey, I saw this happening today. I'd like you to know about it because sometimes the leader doesn't get to see around the corners. And all the good that happens, it's our job as a team of leaders to say, hey, I caught so-and-so doing this. I'd want you to know this was excellent. Yes. And when we get a chance to do that, it may come from him, hey, I heard you did something pretty good today. I may not have been there or not, but just having that moment to do that or a text or a call, recognizing that is really important. It also builds trust, right? It just does. And so nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care, right? And so that matters. And that fight that comes from that, say, I'm not going to let this guy down. You're not surprised. Then what comes to say, you're the leader. I'm not letting Sarah down. That's right. Fight my butt off to make sure that if something had to be done extra, I was going to get it done because I know she would want it that way. And I'm always so amazed at how you guys organized so many people. And I fish about 100 people or 50 people. I'm like, what am I doing? And so the fact that you can get it from one group to another group that's not in the same building, but has the same energy, the same behavior, the same standards, that's always something that's so inspiring to me. So my question to you, General Funk, would be we've kind of talked about when we're recruiting individuals, we kind of look at those who have that little spark to, especially with this generation now, they want to be part of something bigger. They want to know that they're going to make a difference. How do we build cohesion through those elements, both on and off the field? Because I mean, we're soldiers 24-7. Right. So it starts with our leaders, right? But it starts at basic combat training with those great drill sergeants that we have. I mean, you think about what we commit them to, right? We say we want you to take citizens coming from all walks of life, all kinds of conditions in the country, we want you to turn them into soldiers in 10 weeks. And they accept that challenge every time. And then they become the standard bearer. They and their compatriots around them become the standard bearer for holding people accountable to these, as the coach said, our culture, our standards, our values, and our way of doing things, like performance-oriented training, right? So once you've demonstrated your ability to do that task, then you can move on to the next one. But until you get to that task, hey, it's practice, right? Perfect practice makes perfect, right? That's what we're looking for. So our culture of trusting our non-commissioned officers to be experts in the human condition is fascinating. And it's so when you see it work and it works every 10 weeks all over the country, when you see that, you see, man, this is the power of what certain individuals can do in a leader-to-led ratio with the skill sets that they've built over time in our organization. It's incredible to watch. But that's where it starts, I think. Definitely. So my question to you, coach, would be, is there an equivalent within your organization, a professional sports organization, that would be similar to our drill sergeants, that owns the culture and owns that first kind of teaching moment to really get people indoctrined to the skill? And the onboarding is crucial to me. It is. You can't underestimate it. And I think for us, I'm so impressed. Well, let me talk about for you guys first. That happens in 10 weeks. And those standards, they just don't allow it to slip. And that's, to me, what us in civilian life do, well, it'll be OK. We can try it. No, no, no. In your world, nope, do it again. And those points of performance training allow it to say, you don't get to take the next step until you get to this one. Learn how to ride a bike. Just because you're coasting, you're not riding a bike. Somebody just pushed you. There's a lot of steps to take to get better at it. For us, the very best drill sergeants, for us, it's the assistant coaches. But as important, it's the players, the teammates. And so the best mentors, at times, isn't really assigning a big brother or big sister to watch over you. They say, Sarah's going to look over you, Dan. She's here. It's best if they do it without me even knowing. And so we had our first practice a week ago. And I was so pleased to see some of the veteran defensive players. They were really flying. And they were really trying to show, this is how we do it. And I didn't have to coax them to say, hey, let's pick it up. Let's show them how we do this today. And that would have been the natural reaction for a coach to say, let's show everybody how we do things. So the fact that I didn't say that once, and I saw a practice that had real speed, real communication, I think for some of the rookies, there was an oh, fill in the blank moment to say, this is really going quick. But I was very pleased with the veterans on that particular day to say, we have standards. They're really high. We expect you to live up to them, and we're going to help you reach them. Yeah, and that's what our NCOs do is for us every day. It's exactly right. And they hold each other accountable and raise the next generation, right? That's what makes us different than a lot of different armies. Absolutely. Paying that forward to the next and to the next. Those are the same people that we didn't forget about. 20 years later, remember that drill sergeant, remember that coach, remember that teammate? He made such an impact as it goes. So I'd asked the second year players, I said, I want you to stay after today with the rookies. If you had known this earlier, and you could have played better earlier, what would that have been? And so I gave them the morning to think about, and then after practice, they just started sharing these thoughts. If I knew this earlier, I would have played better faster. I said, okay, so you have all this resource for you, but you do have to ask the question. So about the rookie to the second year player. And these drill instructors who just have incredibly high standards, they don't allow them to slip. And they say, yeah, they're really high, but we're also going to help you reach them. Like there's a lot of confidence that comes in that. I suspect that the people that lead bootcamp have a lot of confidence. They do. Because they have to go. Yeah, I see the chest out. Oh yeah. When you go through something hard together, that's really important. I think for me is now, in my life, that's what I've learned. I like doing more than anything. Like doing hard things together with a group of people. I love right at two minute at the end of the game and you're standing right on the sideline and it's about to go down. And my wife says, you're crazy. You know, what are you doing? Like, wasn't that awesome? And she's like, no, it was crazy. But that's the part of football I love the most. When it's right there on it, we're all in it together. We know what we're going to do. We've practiced it. We've rehearsed it. But right when it gets the hardest and you get that win, it is the best. That's why I think that that relationship you form in combat is exactly as the coach is describing it. That's what it means. I mean, and then in practice, you got to share the suck, right? Yes. That's what you got to do. It's going to hurt. Yeah, it's going to hurt. It's easy to be in here if you're it's air conditioned and all that business. But when it's out there and it's 98 degrees and you're running up and down that field, I mean, that's what you got to share. And that's why we train in some of the most unforgiving places in the world. Junior Joint Readiness Training Center down at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Yes. It's in the swamps out in the Mojave Desert at the National Training Center, out in Graphenburg and all the mud that's eight feet deep, right? But what do we learn? We learn to rely on each other. We learn cohesion. We learn absolutely, we make our mistakes in practice so that when it's time to apply the resources of the nation, we're pretty good at it. I would have to agree with you, sir. The best in the world at it. Yeah, that's right. But you know, you get measured every day. And that's why this training is the most important thing we do to take care of our young men and women. What is the most important thing? They're well trained and that they understand that and they understand that they're part of the team. And if they execute their part of the mission, the mission's going to have a chance, much better chance for success. And it becomes repetitive in nature. What do you train? To give yourself confidence in your leaders, your equipment, your doctrine, and yourself. Those four things, that's why you practice. Same thing, right? And my question, I'm gonna pull on that string just a little bit. So we're training, we're getting great, perfect at the basic skills. So our individuals are obviously they're reaching, they're performing at this high, high level through all of that repetitive training to perfect what they're doing. So how do we take those newly perfected individuals and be sure that we're still pushing them to be the best and that they're in the same position? Because sometimes when you gain new skills, you gain new knowledge that would actually be more helpful in a different situation. We kind of talked about it earlier about the small roles and how every role is important, but how do we be sure that we're, soldiers is a little bit different, adjusting where a squad member may fit in a little bit better. Teens, it's a little different. You might be able to slide somebody into a different position. We'll put them in a leadership role, right? So you might be the brand new kid, but you've demonstrated some confidence in certain skills and you've perfected your individual's tasks. Now we're gonna move you up to a collective skill, which means now you've gotta be the leader in making that execution happen, right? It makes you whatever that task might be. And that puts a whole different set of constraints and attributes and things like that on you so that you can then demonstrate your ability to not only perform the task, but to lead the organization to perform whatever collective task you have. For me, I think often a veteran player, if you're a new player on the team, how is this person gonna help us win? And so when they walk in the door, they're wanting to say, okay, let's see how you conduct yourself. So early on, I'd rather put a guy on the second or the third team, write him with the first group, through the first or second week to see how they would respond and that moment is this moment too big, and they communicate and execute at a level that allows them to build some trust with the other players. And that's important for a rookie. They wanna be respected, but you have to earn it. You gotta earn it. And you're gonna make mistakes, and I say that going in, that we expect you to make mistakes in your training, but at the same time, by leveling up and seeing it just keeps rising. Yep, that's right. And guys have moments to say, I was good at this job, you give me a little more, I took it. And we had a player like that, a linebacker this year that was a good linebacker. We ended up having, okay, now he can pass Russia. And we had a safety that we brought in, maybe could he guard tight ends? And then he developed also to play, a number of different positions. He ended up being one of the captains of our team who started off as a role player, but by his will, his energy, his play style, his leadership, he became a captain. So that took place in a matter of three or four months where he went like this, but he had to have the opportunity and he had to deliver when the moments came and he did. So you mentioned opportunities. They had to be given those opportunities. Here as an athlete, it's a little bit different. You do get chances to run through those plays and prove that you've got it. You're picking up what you're supposed to be doing. You're taking on that training. For TRADOC, how do we give soldiers those opportunities to prove themselves? Because basic's a little bit different. So how do we do that everywhere? Well, frankly, one station unit chain, if you look at that opportunity, the person we're bringing out from that program, now 22 weeks long, 10 weeks as a basic combat training and then the advanced training piece of that, we're using sets and reps to build confidence in themselves. And as they build more confidence, we'll place them in the platoon guides or they'll become some squad leader or they'll become part of the leadership team of their basic team so that they can start to use their leadership skills, right? What's the toughest type of leadership? Peer to peer. But where as most accountability? Peer to peer as well. And then the other piece is what we wanna try to do is we gotta be willing to let them fail in training so that they learn the lessons so that they don't fail at war, right? So the enemy always gets a vote as we know. So we gotta use conditions. We gotta alter the conditions in order to make sure you can achieve it in whatever environment you're at, absolutely the task, whatever it is, and in the environment. So we talk about day and night and we talk about some sort of suburny, some sort of chemical environment or some sort of haze environment or you name it, some nuclear perhaps. We've got to train to all those tasks. It really performance oriented means tasks, conditions, and standards. And what always the task and the condition or the standard don't change, but the conditions is where you use variables to make it more of a leadership challenge. So you get after a different set of skills. Go ahead and say, I think one other part that's super important to this is the feedback, whether it's player to player, soldier to soldier. And if General Funk knew there was something that I was working on and he saw me doing that and gave me feedback on it, I think that's priceless because the feedback doesn't always have to come from above. Correct. Hey, you nailed that piece today. When you said this, when you did this part of the drill, hey man, what's wrong? That wasn't you today, Sarah. There could have been more to this if you had looked at it from a different point of view. So given that feedback to one another for really trying to develop one another as leaders, having each other's back to give that kind of feedback, we better be close because if you had said, hey, Dan, worry about yourself and then you and I aren't very close. If you had given me feedback, I'd say, hey, Sarah, I appreciate that. I'll try to incorporate that in because lessons or feedback or however we study it, that's also to me a critical part of leadership development. What do you think about, we talk about feedback loops a lot in trade off. And we talk about both formal and informal, you know, formal being coach to player, informal being player to player or a coach hearing from different aspect of the team or something on something that's happened. Do you have such a thing or have you developed such a culture as that? I like to do it sometimes right after practice and say, all right, General Funk, what went well? Yeah. Well, I thought we communicated the one thing that we try to communicate on good. What's one thing tomorrow that we have to attack from a different space. And I would say, whatever they might have been, hey, we got to make sure we're handling this route better or this run fit better. What went well? I thought we came out with the right energy. So I tried to get feedback from them right away but not call on the same people. So make it specific to somebody. And sometimes if somebody's quiet, like, hey, I may ask you today, you know, what went well? All right, what went well today? And this is, you know, so the guy's not like, I don't know. So you have to know your audience a little bit. But I think it's important and the informal, the more you do it, the less it's informal. It's just kind of part of what you do because you're just developing guys. So I have friends, you know, on the staff or in coaching that would just give me feedback, but I didn't have to make an appointment to do it. Right. So this is how we do it. But there's others that you need to say, man, these are where I think you are today. This is where I see in the classroom. This is where I've seen you on the field. So having, you know, some points of performance in different areas of the job, you probably do it as an evaluation. That's right. I do it, hey, this is where I think you stand today. And I'll do that with all the rookies at the end of this OTA session. Hey, I think you're competing for a practice squad spot or roster spot or a starting spot, whatever that might be. And this is what we'll need to see from you over the next month. So you set their expectations early on. I try to. So that gets you into better practice. So that's what I was talking about, right? So now you know the task conditions and standards. And now you know where you're going to go in the future. And if you're now in one area, I want to recognize it. But if you're also falling behind in an area that I know you're going to study, I would focus my study time on this. This is where I feel like you're, because we all like to study and do the things that we're doing well at. Sure, that's right. Yeah, but the part that you're struggling at, I see here, and you're not at a world-class letter. You're not even at an NFL playing level at this point. I'd be fascinated, Dan, to see that, because we have performance-oriented counseling. And unfortunately, a lot of times, it takes a negative connotation. So the only time you get counsels is when you're screwing something up. So I've got a stack about this high. But if we were going to do, and we're trying to get much more towards a positive aspect of the counseling programs and things like that, how do you do that in, you know, you got them what? How long they're here, a couple hours, maybe? Yes, they're different depending. But if they're here for that hour, you know, even if it's during next week, I'll 20 minutes for one 10-minute break, another 20 minutes, maybe spread it out over four or five days, just get that one-on-one time to make sure they know exactly where they stand. And I don't know from a soldier's standpoint, but sometimes from a player's standpoint, they don't know where they stand. Well, yeah, no, that's the same. And that's very frustrating. We could all be in that same spot. I wish I knew and wish I had a little feedback or wish I just did I do something wrong? Why am I not getting playtime? So I want to be very specific about where they are with their feet on the floor today. And that's a transparency thing, too. I think that's one of the things we need to really think our way through in terms of our counseling programs is the transparency piece of that. We're trying to do that with the new performance counseling forms. So we're trying to do that. Look at more of a 360 view and those kinds of things. And I want to see what you're really hitting the targets on this specific thing. And I'd like to see more of that. And if I see it, a good play, you think we can see that again tomorrow? Yeah, if we can see that again tomorrow, I say, okay, what about the one before? So I try not to just go in and kick their ass on a list of things. This isn't going good. You're not good at this. You're not good at this. But I do, at the end of it, ask, okay, why don't you repeat back what we just talked about? Sometimes a soldier or a player may leave the office and say, this guy doesn't like me, or I'm in trouble, or that's not why you came in here at all. And so oftentimes I'll have that repeated back. That's a great technique and frankly, something we all probably ought to pick up on, right? Because you're right, people get, especially now, people take some of this stuff so personally that it can be damaging to their psyche when all you're really trying to do is improve a performance, it's not a personal thing, it's a performance thing. Yes. The counseling, so think about when you started at William and Mary and how you did counseling then to where you are now, and then think about what a sergeant is versus where a command sergeant major would be or a broken down old general. How do you think you deliver that message? Well, a lot different. Yeah. I think also growing up, when you're a high school coach or somebody ripped you, you say, I'll see you tomorrow. That's right. Yeah, he was on my butt today. That's right. Okay, like what time's practice tomorrow? You didn't get upset as much, because it was just maybe part of how we did things. But I think today the messaging of where somebody is at is really important, because I think it's, you said this earlier, to meet somebody where they are. Generally, if things aren't going good, there's some tension anyway. And if things aren't going good, some of the emotions that's there are anger and frustration. So to throw that on top of that is good. And so sometimes it's best to start, what's going on away from here? Is there anything away from here that could be affecting your performance here? And you'd be surprised just trying to diffuse it. Yeah, there is some things going on. Let's talk about those first, then we'll get into the football part of things. Interesting, I call that being positively intrusive. Because what you're trying to do is get into their lives a little bit. You know what, and it's great to hear you say that from a football aspect, because that's what we're trying to coach in TreyDoc now is, hey, get into their lives a little bit. I use those little coin things as ammunition in the information fight, right? I'm trying to find it. So I ask two questions, why'd you join our army? Why do you want to continue to serve? And the reason I do that is to be a bit intrusive. I want to know what motivates you to do what we're doing. And so you must do something very similar. I do. You don't have cool coins like that. I don't, I don't. And they have to be earned, which I think is very cool. So finding ways to connect, knowing that not everybody's exactly the same is important. And it takes time to build that trust. So we had a player, two new players this year. One trust was easy, and that's probably more like I am. I'm quick to trust, but I don't always forgive so easily. And there was another player who took a long time to trust. But then at the end, so much so, three or four months later, Tax, did you see this play? Did you watch this one? But early on, it was, yes coach, no. It just took him longer. So I think not everybody just drinks the Kool-Aid right away. It's a great point. And we need to remember that in the army, too, right? I mean, they're a bad, you know, guy. Yeah, I mean, they're bad folks. They're just, they all come to it in different points. I want to see it a little bit, but first, and okay. See him be like this again tomorrow? Okay, he is. Okay, that's good. What about the next day? Talk about receiving people into your organization really quick. And I know Sarah had this as a con, but you taught me that on how you just do practice and all that, that's really important to us. I think the first piece, and for me, the ones who have to, you know, have said it over, it'd be your sergeants as the assistant coaches. And so when somebody comes into the organization, I think it's important to onboard them. And so, you know, the senior ones meet with them first all the way down to who is here the last year, like, you know, the most, not junior member, but newest member. And so having ways to say, hey, these are some things about Dan that you'll want to know. Like, you know, his pet peeve is being late and not hustling, you know. So like, you can mess up a lot of things, don't mess up those things. And so having a way to say, these are the really important parts of the organization. And so for me, that was, I wanted to throw a great practice. You know, the time on the field, where we trained, how we did that one, I just wanted us to go for it because I thought that got us the most ready to play. And so we made that a big event, you know, how practice looked and how it went and the energy that went into that. And it didn't mean it went on for three or four hours, but man, when we stepped across those white lines, it had better be crisp and fast and aggressive and loud and all the things that I wanted to see. And so I would try to measure that right at practice, but onboarding somebody to your culture and the things that are most important to you, if you get that part right, I think a lot of other things will fall into line. Absolutely, that's exactly right. Yeah, exactly. And we were kind of talking before we started how the army and trade-off has adjusted how we do that. The first two weeks are really just get your feet wet, get in here, understand the non-negotiables and then we'll start blending in where you fit into a team and get to know you. Because I think cohesion comes with understanding the individual, like you said earlier, before the athletes. So how do you encourage your athletes to get to know each other and build that squad? We call them squad, so this is my squad. How do you encourage that kind of initiative with the players and even the coaching staff? Because they're so vital. If there's something going on with one of your coaching staff, they can't give their all to your athletes. So how do you build cohesion outside of training and outside of being an athlete? I think you nailed it the first part and I took a page out of your play, but before we did any plays, and usually in the off-season, you start putting things together. It was way more about, let's talk about the off-season first, where did you do, family-wise, where are we at? So what do we wanna be as a group together? Before we even talked about standards or that, what did we wanna be together as a group? Then, I think you add on the pieces that you wanna accomplish together as a group, but if you don't get to that part of the person first, it's really hard to be just as connected and as tight as you can be. So for us, that is like through the year has been competition, so those are always easy ways to just start the day and bring people together, whether it was crowd noise and shooting a basket to get your team together, doing push-ups, whatever it is, just building a little connection with your squad. So I do it today where the teams split up on defense into three, and so we'll have a competition at the start. It might have been based on yesterday, it might have been pictures in the building, like for a rookie named this person. I'm like, well, that was the person serving breakfast. What's their name? You've been here with them three weeks. You still don't know, like that's who their name is or I put a picture of the equipment guy up and say, what's his name? And so for the new players, like that's super important to know that the support staff works with us, not for us. Yeah, that's a great point too. You know, like, yeah, don't be a talent. Like, no, you put it back into the bin and so knowing that the support team is part of what you do, but they don't, they're not added on at the end. I think that's like those small things add up to say, all right, everybody has a role here. I asked even the equipment guys, we got any guys on strain over at, no coach, they've been doing good. All right, that's good to know cause I wanted to find out if somebody was above equipment or training or, you know, treating someone just because, you know, I was the head coach or defense coordinator, get more respect than somebody in a supporting role. That shouldn't be the case. Not if you really want a good team. It really goes to that question that's up on the screen there. You know, it talks about soldiers, but it's how do you make sure everybody's a valued member of your team? That's exactly right. And so, y'all, and there's a bias about women and soldiers and MOS is better than others. I think it goes back to don't let your proximity from the front lines determine your worth to the fight. Right? Absolutely. So. That's a great term. It is. I mean, you just can't allow that. Every, and the chief staff, the army says this all the time. I completely agree is we need every soldier. Every soldier is important. Everybody's got a role. Everybody's got to play. You got to be able to play the away game. You can't just play the home game, but everybody's got to play. So every member of our team is valued. Absolutely. Otherwise we wouldn't have them. Right? I mean, we need people to play their roles in order to bring about the synergy we're looking for to do whatever it is we're trying to get done, whether it be hurricane relief, we're taking down another country. Right. Everybody's got a role to play there. Right. And I think you mentioned kind of a more of a recruiting piece. People want to be here. We're recruiting individuals who want to be here. So ensuring that they understand their role and making them a valued, feel a value part of the team. You mentioned that you do try to do that one-on-one contact with them. We're revamping kind of how we do our evaluations. So my next question would be how, what do we see for Treydoch down the road to increase the, because the generation we're recruiting is very value-based, very how am I doing, how big of a difference can I make? So how do we make someone feel like a valued piece of the team outside of the normal check-in-the-box kind of evaluations? Frankly, we've got to show them how their role is important to the team. Right? A little-known fact is less than 15%, and the number's a little smaller, of kids after age 13 play any kind of team sport. So we've been talking about team and teams and what that, so we're talking over their heads. So we got to go back and show them how their role fits into what it is we're trying to do as part of the team that brings the whole joint position up, right? We have a role as the Army to play part of that team sport that which is war, which is why we exist, fight and win the nation's war, right? That's why we exist. So everybody's got to understand their role in that piece of it, whether it be the Xylophone player or the armor crewman, right? From A to Z, we've got to be able to do those things that contribute, and everybody wants to be a valued member of a contributing or a contributing member to the team. So understanding what your basic role is is important. How you get that is through your sergeants, demonstrating why it matters. You know, make it matter, right? General Dempsey says that all the time, make it matter, your commitment to the nation, and we just had, think about it, we just had Memorial Day yesterday, right? And you got to make it matter, so everyone has to have a role, and everybody's got to play their part in order for us to succeed as a nation. That's what I think is so important. And we've done a good job in trade-off defining roles. We do knowledge, skills, behavior for every doggone thing on the planet, right? We know what it takes to do whatever job it is. It is now communicating young men and women why it's important. They want to know why. That's what we're doing more in trade-off, is finding reasons why this is important, why you got to do these things, right? Absolutely, yeah. I think for us too in the NFL, I've said it before, playing and coaching in the NFL, it's a dream job, but it's not easy. No. It's very tough, and those roles are often really challenging and really tough as well, but General Funk said it, showing the value of those roles and why, and you can make a difference doing this role and pointing it out. I think that to me is everything. I think you said it best right there. Everybody wants to make a difference. We just got to capture how they can be that difference maker. Yeah, in that role. Not everybody's going to make a difference in everything. That's right. There's a lot of things that if I had to do, we would look really bad. I say, okay, that's not one for me, but this part, I know, inside, and I can teach it, I can get there, I can help you grow into that space. If it was a different role, I'd have a much harder time. If you and I had to talk math right now, it's the same thing. Exactly, right. I'd struggle, algebra and geometry. Same as what? I'm right there. I'm a word person. Math is not my strong suit, so I feel you on that. The roles, it doesn't happen just like that. So I think what you think may be to start, it could be different as you go and like, man, I didn't even know I was good at this particular thing and somebody becomes exceptional at it. And that's really what leaders are designed to do. Catch, find those, what you talked about, the strengths of your soldiers and put them towards the roles that are going to make them successful, right? Everybody wants to succeed in life, right? Things they can do, not the things they can't. Exactly. That's kind of the best balance of a leader to me is saying, okay, I have a good vision of how we can utilize the personnel that we have to go up. Win this war, win this game, win this moment based on who we have. Correct, I think that's right. That's all talent management right there or in a nutshell, really. Absolutely. Working to your people's strengths. Absolutely, and everyone has mentioned that performing as either a warrior athlete or as a professional athlete, this level is tough. It is tough to get here as a professional athlete. It is tough to perform and understand that you shoulder such a big responsibility when you put on this uniform and raise your right hand. So what kind of tricks do and tips and training does your team do to make resilient individuals to be sure that they continue to find success and not kind of get run down? We have H2F and we're teaching those resiliency pieces. So my question would be to both of you, how are you building resilient professional athletes to compete at this level? And how are you building warrior athletes to compete and be able to fight and win nation's wars at this level? So Coach. I would say for us, first off from the resiliency part, like put him into difficult training environments and okay, like in the past, it might have been the starting quarterback in a two minute drill, he is out. Put somebody else in to say, okay, do we still have the same level of confidence? And so putting different people in roles, maybe they weren't with the first group now they are and they have to perform at that level and the other people around them, okay, we got a new person here with us. How are we gonna make sure whether it's extra communication, do we have to help somebody? Those to me are top of the pile to have resilience. And then the next piece of that is like from the neck up, you know, our mindset of how we go into things to say, do we mope or complain about it? Or to say, hey, this is exactly where we stand and this is what we now need to go do to win. And so to me, putting the team into difficult spots is a good way to do it. Do a two minute drill and you're down eight. You gotta score and get a two point conversion and putting yourself into those training environments is where it's at the best and constantly quizzing and testing to do that. But put him into the spots on the field where you have to practice against one another and perform at a high level. I think that's resilience for us. And then inside, how are we gonna act when those moments of adversity come? Cause they are 100% in athletics. They are coming. And so I can't speak on the soldier side, but adversity is definitely coming. And so knowing that's gonna happen, how do we respond together? Like bring it, where is it around the corner? Like, okay, that's all it is. You know, even in training, I would hope, you know, yell back at the strength and conditioning. That all you got today, you know, like more of like bring it on. And when you have those mindsets to go, that's to me where the best teams I've been a part of really had that attitude, group together, we're gonna be very hard to beat because it didn't just beat me, you have to beat all these people standing around me. And so like that energy that takes place when you step out onto the field saying, you might beat me like, but all these guys that are with me, like you can't take all of us. And there's an awesome feeling with that. And I know you guys live that life, but that to me puts into the resilience, you better train it. Because if you just call on it on game day, it's not gonna be enough. Well, it's not much different, right? Other than you learn through significant emotional experiences or repetition, right? So that builds you the confidence. And then what builds you the resiliency is understanding your training, your doctrine, your equipment and yourself, right? So that gives you a resilient piece of that. And then from that way with your confidence and now your ability to get some resilient actions, you definitely rely on one another. And just as Dan just said, it's much more about you can't take all of us. It really is. And then you walk with a little swagger, right? This is my squad. These are my people. And that's the way it works. It does. It doesn't matter whether it's war or football in the trenches is where it's won and lost, right? And that's what we say. And then from that is understanding that our diversity is our strength, right? From an army's standpoint, I can't tell you how number of times I've seen that there are diverse set of skills, whether it be ethnicity or whatever it is, our diversity gives us the strength to apply a resource to any problem set. That's what makes us incredibly resilient as an organization. As individuals, you get that from your inner self. What is that inner belief that you wanna go to when the chips are all down? What is it? Is it grit? It could be. Is it a religious purpose perhaps? Is it some sort of mindfulness thing that brings you back to your center, right? Is it some sort of whatever it be, those things make you resilient in the moment. And you have to find those. Some of those are personal. An organization will be resilient. Certainly our great army is resilient through all kinds of different adversity. And the organization perpetuates itself, right? So raising it up to a standard that you want it to be at takes perseverance and it takes all of those great army values that we have, all of us kind of holding each other accountable to them. Training partners help. Absolutely. You're resilient to God. I am not gonna let you down. That's right. I won't. I'll fall out before I let them down. Like it won't happen. So having other people to do hard things with, I think that's good. That's why you can go further on your training. I'll go jogging myself. Like, I don't really feel that great. Now go out with somebody. It'll make a difference. And that's why this is my squad is so important, right? That's our organizational structure, right? We're gonna hold each other up, right? Catch it doing something right. Be a little bit, be a sounding board if you've got an issue. Right? That's what that's all about. That's what it means. That's what positively intrusiveness means too. You have to know your individuals. You have to know your teammates. You have to know your coaching staff to understand what builds cohesion and I think in turn cohesion builds kind of that impenetrable resilient team. And it all, I think it all begins at the very beginning of that culture building. And it sounds like the similarities between a professional athlete onboarding where you, before you even touch this field, you're gonna understand our core values. You're gonna understand our themes. You're gonna understand what makes these individuals, all of us, tick and drive and wanna do the things that we do and got us here. That's the other thing. I think there's some key characteristics between warrior athletes and pro athletes that get them to that level that are kind of non-negotiables. We're looking to get those individuals to perform at this level. And I think it's, again, the similarities between the two programs, like the military and the army bringing in civilians and asking them to do what we asked them to do and then bring in a pro athlete or a college kid who may have only performed at that level and asking them to perform at the highest level possible. I think being able to just introduce a culture and have that individual grab onto it is really cool to see how something not simple, because culture is not simple, but how getting them to buy in and understand where their knowledge, skills, and ability can take them within that is incredible. And I think the leaders' roles in seeing where those individuals fit. Soldiers who are together, players who are together, are oftentimes closer than their own brothers or sisters or anybody else in that connection, that cohesion that they're just there for one another. It's just different. It's a bond. Yeah, it's not a normal lifestyle. And that's okay, we're not normal. So that's for sure. Yeah, that's for sure. No, and I think it's just really, it's really interesting to see how these two groups definitely share some really common bonds on how you bring folks in and get some buy-in. So, but unfortunately we have somehow come to the end of our program, so we're actually gonna have to wrap up. But I wanna thank you, Coach Quinn, again, for taking the time to join us today and inviting you into your amazing office. Is there anything you'd like to share as kind of a parting comment on talent management, cohesive teams? I think culture is such a big word. And so sometimes people ask me in environment, hey, Dan, you created where it's positive and that. So I think environment and culture are different because environment can be there's music, there's good energy, I'm positive to be around, but culture is what you live every day because you can have a positive session around things that nice and nice, shiny place. But if you don't live that life that you wanna be about as a culture, all the environment won't matter. It's how you live that life together professionally. And if you get that part right, as beautiful as this is, if we didn't get the culture part right, the performance wouldn't reflect it. And so that to me is the best piece of all. So culture and environment are a little different. Environments, the good things around it, but culture is how you live that life together. Yeah, absolutely, that's fantastic. Yeah, I just thank you again for having us and for taking the time to join us today in this program. And I'm pumped to be here with you guys. If you wanna keep going before everybody will go on. I know, right? I wish we could, this was just rolling, this is awesome. So, General Fong, I just wanna ask you, is there anything you'd like to share about, anything else about talent management, what TreyDoc's doing to really harbor those things and really make valued individuals of each team? Well, I think every day we gotta challenge every assumption. I think every day we gotta look at why is this generation dead? How do we bring this generation? How do we make them wanna serve and be the next greatest generation? Our nation needs them to serve and we need them to, let's face it, we all need them to win, right? We absolutely have to, environment and culture, we have to have this generation that is willing to say, send me. And so, it makes each one of us a recruiter, right? Because we need to do that. But I wanna go back into my friend, Dan Quinn here, and just say, I got another friend named Dave Belavia, right? And every time somebody says, thank you for your service, he looks him back in the eye and he says, you're worth it. So Dan, I want you to know that from me to you, you're worth the service and sacrifice of our whole entire family and the folks around here. Thanks for spending some time with us today. We really do appreciate it. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir, again for joining us here in sunny Texas. So thank you both for your time and sharing this important information with everyone who tuned in. And thank you to everyone who did actually have a chance to tune in. Talent management is about ensuring we continue to invest in our people and push them to be the best that they can be throughout their entire career. The Army is a profession, which means continued training and leader development are key elements to building teams ready to fight and win in any situation. Building cohesive teams means a focus on each individual to include those supporting the core team. It's only when each member of a team is given the opportunity to use their skills and abilities where they are best suited, can a team find the cohesion necessary to be successful? So tune in next month when I am going to be joined by trade-off command sergeant major Daniel Hendricks. Stay tuned to trade-off social media for details on that discussion coming up. Thanks again for joining us. And as always, victory starts here. Right here.