 Okay, welcome back. I think the internet is working okay now, so we are back on video. So we'll just continue from there. Did anyone have questions about the last one on the greater sin? Do you have online or in person? In the context of 1st John 517, all unrighteousness is sin and there is sin not leading to death. Okay, so that is a different context, right? Can you repeat the verse please? 1st John 517 Okay, so we'll have to read more in 1 John to look at what John is talking about. But in 1 John, John is talking a lot also about wrong teaching about Jesus, mostly that some questions about whether Jesus was God. And so when he's talking about sin, it's that rejection of Jesus as God that leads to death. In that kind of context is where he's talking about a difference in sin of whether you've done something that is wrong and whether it is also a one-time sin or a continuing in sin, a continuing rejection of God. A continuing rejection of God will lead to death. But if it is a sin that is one time and you're repenting of that sin, there is forgiveness for that sin. So yeah, that is also one of those difficult passages in scripture. Okay, we'll continue. So the next one is on page 40, forgiving people sins. John 2023 says, if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. Okay, so what does that mean? Do we have the power to forgive people sins or to choose to withhold forgiveness? And based on our forgiveness is their judgment determined, their judgment by God. Or how do we understand this verse? Okay, so what are some rules about interpreting scripture that we've discussed in this class? When we are looking at a passage like this, how do we make sure we interpret it correctly? Because if we take it by itself, it looks like we can choose to, we can determine someone's eternity. We can either forgive them or choose not to forgive them and their final, that decision is placed with us. But what do we have to make sure we interpret this passage correctly? Sister, only God can forgive us and forgive sins. Okay, why do you say that, sister? That only God can forgive sins? Because Jesus said, I have the power to forgive sins. Okay, so you're looking at other parts of scripture where it says that only God can forgive sins, right? Yes, but I don't know the scriptures, sister. Okay, okay, yes. So one of the, now we want to also put into practice some of the things that we've discussed in interpreting scripture in this class. So one of the ways in which we make sure we can interpret this correctly is by looking at other passages of scripture talking about forgiveness, right? So who has the authority to forgive sins? So Jesus said that he has the authority to forgive sins or when he forgives sins and people questioned him, he shows that he has that authority to forgive sins. He has the power to forgive sins, right? And people were offended when Jesus forgives sins because they said only God can forgive sins. But Jesus goes ahead and still forgives sins to show that he had that power, which means that he is God. Okay, any other principles of interpretation that we need to apply here? What other ways can we make sure we don't wrongly interpret this verse? Okay, so apart from looking at the rest of scripture, we look at the immediate context. Okay, so let's turn to John 20. So the first thing to do is when we are looking at a passage is look at the immediate context. Why is the writer saying it? What was happening in that passage? And how does this verse relate to what he was saying before this? Okay, so if we read from verse 19 onwards of John 20, Jesus has appeared to his disciples after his resurrection. And he comes to them. He stands in their midst. He says, peace be with you. He shows them that he's truly resurrected. It's a bodily resurrection that he's not just a spirit. And then he says from verse 21 onwards, peace be with you as the Father has sent me. I am sending you. And with that he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. Okay, so what is the context here in which Jesus is saying you can forgive or not forgive? What are those two verses 21 and 22 saying? Okay, so the Father had given Jesus authority and now Jesus is giving authority to his disciples. Okay, so what was Jesus sent for? The Father, why did the Father send Jesus? We know that Jesus was sent to die for our sins, right? But what was the purpose of that? To reveal the Father. Okay, to make way for us to be restored to the Father. And how are we restored to the Father? Through Jesus, through the cross, through his death and resurrection. So when Jesus was sent, he was sent to accomplish this work. And Jesus was preaching the kingdom of God and displaying the kingdom of God right up to the time that he went to the cross. Okay, so we are also sent in the same way to preach the kingdom of God to declare that sins are forgiven through Jesus Christ. But the response that people give is up to them, right? So the power to declare forgiveness to people is in our hands. We have the power to preach the gospel, to share this message that there is forgiveness in Christ. But the response of the people will determine whether their sins are forgiven or not. Okay, so that is one aspect. We are sent like Jesus was sent. The second thing is receive the Holy Spirit. So we go in the power of the Holy Spirit. We go as agents of God to represent Jesus Christ before people. Okay, so let's just turn to Matthew 18. Okay, we'll read verses 15 to 20. Matthew 18 verses 15 to 20. Moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. If he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a brethren, like a heathen and a tax collector. Assuredly I say to you, whatever you find on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you lose on earth will be lost in heaven. Again, I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. Two or three are gathered together in my name. I am there in the midst of them. Okay, so the first aspect of forgiveness is in preaching of the gospel. So when we preach the gospel, we offer people the opportunity to be forgiven. If they reject the gospel, they have chosen to not receive that forgiveness. And if we read when Jesus sends out the disciples, he says, if they do not welcome you, what do you do? Do you try and force them to accept the gospel or what do you do? When you go from one place to another preaching the gospel, he sends out his disciples, right? In tours to go out and share. So what is our response when people don't receive the gospel? Yeah, so we dust the, we basically shake off the dust from our feet and we move on, which is meaning to say that you have chosen to reject. And so I've done my work. I'm leaving you to be judged by God. Okay, so that is one sense in which we have the power to declare forgiveness and to declare judgment. Okay, the second aspect is what we just read in Matthew 18. Here this is within the body of Christ, okay, where there is disagreement between two people. We try to address it between the two people. We go to the larger body of the church. And if that person is still unwilling to accept correction, then we treat them as someone who is no longer part of that body of believers. But this is something that is given as collective authority to the church. So it says here verse 18 says truly I tell you whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. This is very similar to the verse in John 20. If we read it in the original language, it actually is whatever you bind on earth has been bound in heaven. Whatever you lose on earth has been bound, has been lost in heaven. Meaning to say that you are just doing what has already been done in heaven. What God has done in heaven you are executing on earth. Okay, so God has actually bound, God has actually lost and you are executing that in this context. Okay, in this context of somebody sinning. And so it's saying when you agree as a church on something like this, then you are executing the will of God. Okay, so I am there with you. I am leading you to act in a certain way. Okay, does that make sense? So we are agents of Christ and as a body of Christ we can make certain judgments against sin in agreement when we come into agreement with each other because we believe that Christ is present with us. Is that clear? So it's not as an individual that I can declare that you are not forgiven, but as body of believers coming agreement about a certain sin. Okay, and then the third one is also a similar example, but this is a practical example. So Matthew 18 is just giving it to us in theory. If we see a point C in under this question, it's mentioning the issue in the Corinthian church, where there is sin in the church and Paul tells the church to put this out of their fellowship because he is continuing to walk in sin and if they allow that to stay in the church, the rest of the church is going to be corrupted. Okay, so the point of putting that person out of fellowship of the church is to bring them to repentance. So even when we are passing this judgment against sin, our ultimate goal is that the person would repent, not that that person will be condemned or that person will feel this sense of shame or judgment. Okay, the point of that declaration of you have sinned and what you've done is wrong is to then give them the opportunity to repent and that example is given in the Corinthian church. So does this make sense? Any questions? Are you good? Yeah? Okay, the next one is three days and three nights. So we see in Matthew 1240 that Jesus says, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Now, this big question of how does Jesus' death to resurrection count as three days to three nights, because the way we usually celebrate it is Good Friday and Easter. So Good Friday you have Friday night, Saturday night, that's two nights. So even if we say the whole of Friday, the whole of Saturday, somehow Sunday morning may be three days, but we can only count two nights. So how can we account for these three days and three nights that Jesus mentions in Matthew 12? There are two explanations that are given here. We'll just look at both of these. So John 1931, let's just turn, we'll read these passages here just to help us. John 1931, someone can read that for us. Therefore, because it was the preparation day that the body should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, or the Sabbath was a high day, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. Okay, so John 1931 talks about this being a high Sabbath, which may be different from the regular Sabbath and we look a little bit more at what that means. Okay, and this we see also in John 737, the same high Sabbath that is talked about, the last day of the feast, the last and greatest day of the festival. So the feast of the Passover and the feast of Unleavened Bread, they were supposed to be celebrated on the first month of the year, the month of Nisan. And the 14th day was the preparation day for the Passover. So if we look at starting from the 14th day, you can look at that first table that is there. The 14th day of Nisan was the preparation day and that's when the Passover began. And if we look at the Jewish day and night, the day began in the evening. So it began from 6 p.m. the previous day and it would go into 6 p.m. the next day. So that would be considered as one day, one full day according to Jewish custom. Okay, so the Sabbath would begin at 6 p.m. on Friday rather than in the morning Saturday or 12 a.m. on Saturday. It would begin at 6 p.m. on Friday. That would be the Sabbath day till 6 p.m. on the Saturday. So we count that 14th day of Nisan the preparation day as the day when Jesus had his supper. That would have been a Wednesday. Okay, so he's arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane on Wednesday. On Thursday morning, he is crucified in the morning at 9 a.m. And he stays on the cross till 3 p.m. But he's buried in the tomb before 6 p.m. that day. And the Jewish Friday begins from 6 p.m. So Sabbath begins from 6 p.m. on that Thursday evening. The Jewish Friday begins on that Thursday evening at 6 p.m. So that's considered as the first day. So we're saying here that Jesus was crucified on Thursday morning based on this whole thing of the high Sabbath. Okay, where Friday is the high Sabbath and Saturday is the weekly Sabbath. So the normal regular Sabbath would have been the Saturday. But the high Sabbath was the last day of the festival. And so that was the day that they said that we can't take the body off. We can't have these bodies hanging on the cross on a high Sabbath. Okay, so Friday is the feast of Unleavened Bread. It begins on that Thursday evening and then ends on Friday evening. Okay, so that is the second night that Jesus is in the tomb. Saturday is the Sabbath. Again, beginning on Friday 6 p.m. ending on Saturday 6 p.m. That's the third night. And on Sunday, Jesus is raised from the dead. Okay, any questions that are a little confusing? Okay, so the only thing here is because of the high Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath, instead of considering Saturday as the Sabbath, we are saying that Friday was the Sabbath. That is mentioned here in John because it talks about a high Sabbath. So that means Jesus was crucified on a Thursday rather than on Friday. Okay, so that is one explanation. The other explanation is that we look at each night and day as one whole. Like we count that as one day. So on Thursday, that Jewish Thursday begins on Wednesday at 6 p.m. That's the preparation day. Jesus has his last supper on Thursday and he's arrested. On Friday, he's crucified. Okay, and then he's buried before 6 p.m. So that's considered as the first day because he's buried before 6 p.m. He dies before 6 p.m. So that when Thursday to Friday is considered as the first day and night. Does that make sense? Yeah? Okay, so that's the first day and night. And he's in the tomb on Friday from Thursday 6 p.m. Sorry, from Friday 6 p.m. to Saturday 6 p.m. That's the second night of his death. And then from Saturday evening to Sunday morning is the third day of... So we're considering that 6 p.m. till whichever the next day as one day and night. Okay, so those are two possible explanations. So the conclusion here is also important. We are not looking at this as this is a definite explanation. These are just possibilities for ways to explain. But the important thing is that Jesus died and was raised. Okay, these are just ways to understand how we get those three days and three nights. Any questions or confusion about those two ways of looking at it? Okay. All those online also? Okay. The next few ones, we have two short ones. We'll just look at that quickly. And then I wanted to do this group discussion. We may just only have time for that today. But yeah, and then we'll have to do maybe an hour next week. But we'll just, yeah, we'll see how far we get today. So one Corinthians 13, we see at the end of first Corinthians 13, it says, when the perfect has come, tongues will end and prophecies will end. Okay. And so some people consider that the spiritual gifts are no longer for today because it talks about this time of perfection when there will be no need for tongues, when there will be no need for the use of prophecy and other spiritual gifts. So let's just turn to first Corinthians 13. Let's look at that in the context of what Paul is talking about. Okay. If someone can just read for us from verse 11 to 13. First Corinthians chapter 13 verse 11. When I was a child, I spoke as a child. I understood as a child. I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. But now we see in our mirror, Emily, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Verse 13. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is love. Yeah. Thank you. So before this section from verses 8 to 10, he's talking about prophecies. Tongues will be still, knowledge will pass away. And then he says, when completeness comes, what is in part will disappear. But that completeness is to come from what we just read is when we will see Christ face to face. And now we see only reflection as in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face. So it's at Christ's coming that there will no longer be a need for the spiritual gifts. So when he's talking about this perfection, it's that final day of us being with Christ. That's when we will truly see the kingdom realized. We will truly see all of heaven come on earth. And so it's not talking about gifts ending at our present time because we have not reached that time of perfection. Do you all think we've reached the time of perfection? No. We all continue to see, we see death, we see sadness, we see sin, we see sickness, all of that. So it's at this time of perfection that there will be no longer a need for gifts. So until that time of perfection comes, the gifts will continue to be in the church to be exercised for the benefit of the body and to be witnesses for Christ. Can women be in five-fold ministry? We want to read these passages Ephesians 4-8-11 and Matthew 4-4. But the word used is man. And so is our interpretation that only men can be in these offices? No, because that word man is just used to refer to humanity. So it can be a woman or a man who is called to be an apostle, a prophet, an evangelist, a pastor, a teacher. It's just that the word in Greek says man. It's translated as man into English but it refers to humanity. It refers to either male or female. The five-fold ministry is the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher which is like our offices that are given in the church. I think you all will learn that second and third year to really do each of those things. So we are not going to do head covering and headship because we already covered that in class. So we won't discuss that question. Let's just break up into groups and do can women teach the word? If you all have already read this in the time that we had, then you all can just go straight into discussion. But if you all still have to read it, I'll just give you all a few minutes to read it and discuss in groups what is talked about here. And we'll come back and just share. So I'll do the breakout rooms online as well. So we're just discussing the question on page 42, can women teach the word? Just for us to read what's given in our notes and come to a conclusion about what scripture's teaching is on that. For those online, I'll just start the breakout rooms. We'll just have about, I think, 10 minutes or maybe let's just seven minutes. So please get into your discussion quickly and we'll come back and talk a little bit about what we discussed in our groups. Okay, I'll just start the groups online. So please join your group when the pop up comes on the classroom on meat. Sorry. Those of you online, we are able to complete your discussion. Yes. Okay, great. Okay. Good job. Thank you. I think the in-person students are just finishing up. Okay. Anyone wants to share what was your conclusion on that question and why you all came to that conclusion? Sister, can I say something? Yes, please go ahead. Sister, see there are women in the Old Testament that is in Deborah Esther and in the New Testament also there are women with Jesus, especially Mary Magdalene. She was with Jesus till the end and she was the one who seen the resurrected Jesus first and she went and told the apostles. I think what Paul says is about the married women to keep quiet in the church and to take the husband's permission. So it was culture during that time. So the church has grown and according to Lucy said Galatian 328, you know, we have that neither male nor female. Everybody is equal in the eyes of God. Okay. Yeah, and anybody Sam would like to add something, anyone from Madhura? Go ahead, please. Yeah, I think I joined a little late because I'm actually in Mangalore. So when we're in the breakout rooms, I think what I was just saying is before we, when we're talking about the subject before we go to the specific passages that Paul writes in 1st Corinthians and 2nd Timothy. Where he's explicitly writing about women keeping silent. I think before we go to those passages, we need to broaden the picture throughout scripture. What do we see? And what we see is God has used women. We see in the gospels in Jesus' ministry that he first spoke to women after he got resurrected. And we see in Paul's ministry team that he had many women and he gives thanks to them. And, you know, they're a puzzle. So I was just saying that before we attack those passages just to broaden the picture first and then we can go to those specific passages and kind of give our perspective and interpretation. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you sister Gertrude and Sam. It's important to like we talked about when we are interpreting difficult passages that we don't interpret. I mean, we never interpret scripture without taking into account what the rest of scripture is saying, but especially in such cases. We understand our conclusion should be based on all of scripture first informing how we read the passage. So normally what we'll do is we take a passage, we understand the context, then we look at the rest of scripture. But here we know that this is something that is a little difficult to understand. And so we look at, okay, what does all of scripture first say about women? And then, okay, scripture says this about women that God was already using women in the Old Testament that Jesus accepted women as disciples, which was actually very, very counter cultural to have women disciples. And Jesus appeared to women first when he was resurrected. If all of that happened, then how do we understand what Paul is saying here? So we know that the rest of scripture definitely doesn't teach that women are not to be part of ministry or to serve God in this role of teaching. Is anyone else wanting to share something online or in person? The anointing and the spiritual gifts, what is there is the same. There is no disparity between receiving it because if you're male it's different or thing. And what Paul primarily identifies here is about women having to be suppressive only in a house. It is not very specific in the church as such. So male can only have a responsibility. It's not like an authority that he has over a woman. But where we were actually personally stuck in a group is like the verse where it says in Timothy, I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. That's where we were stuck. Because the Corinthians we understood the concept in the context and the culture in which he spoke. But only in 1 Timothy 2 verse 15. 2 verse 12, right? To teach or to assume authority over a man. So we'll just address that before we close. Was anyone else who want to share online or anyone else here at class? See the Galati chapter 3 verse 28. There is a name Jew and Greek. There is a name for three. There is a name male and female. You are all in Christ Jesus and Roman. This says you are the Jesus Christ of one body. So emphasizing the equality of men and women, there is no difference in terms of our position in Christ. Right? You were going to add something? These human and males on Jesus Christ of one body is equal to preaching. What's that sorry? Human and female is one body of Jesus Christ. These are human preachings. Okay. So both women and men can preach about Jesus Christ. So why does Paul talk about this specifically about women? I don't permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man. She must be quiet. Right? So one thing like we looked at in our notes is the first aspect of within a husband wife relationship. Not assuming authority over the man, which is what he talks about in the second half. But the first half of I do not permit a woman to teach. Now if we look at this is not in your notes, but I'm just going to add some background. If we look at the context, women were not really educated in the law in Jewish custom. Okay. So that was it was very, very rare for women to actually be knowledgeable about the scriptures about the Torah. But it was very common for men as they were growing up when they were children to be taught the Torah. So they were well versed in scriptures. And if we read in this context in First Timothy, there were false teachers who were coming in and targeting women, especially because women lack knowledge. Okay. So what Paul is actually saying, if we read the previous verse verse 11, a woman should learn in quietness and full submission. So he's not saying a woman shouldn't should actually what he's saying is advocating for them to learn, but first learn before you're going to teach. Okay. So don't because these false teachers were targeting women because women didn't know the scriptures and they were using that against them. Paul is saying learn in submission, learn in quietness and don't too quickly be or too quickly assume the position of a teacher. Okay. So that is the context. So we're reading it within the context of the rest of First Timothy, as well as in the context of the early church where false teaching and heresies were coming in. This is Paul's encouragement. Women learn first before you before you think about going into a position of teaching. Okay. Is that satisfactory answer? Yeah. Okay. So we will end here. And I think we'll have to just address these last few questions next week. But thank you all for being here. I think next week we'll just need to do a one hour. So maybe we'll start with the second hour instead of doing the first hour. We won't meet then. We'll meet in the second hour and then we'll do our third hour as well. Okay. Thank you all.