 I send you and I want to make sure that you got the conversation on Friday. John and Victoria, if you would please go ahead and test your audio for me and your video that would be great. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you. Good morning. Sorry about the delay. Oh no worries. Eileen, I didn't see the script. Let me read that to you. Hold on just one moment. All right thanks. Oh wait a minute. You have it? I did find it. Perfect. Just let me know when you want me to dig in. We everyone is present so if you'd like to start that would be great. All right I'm gonna move my camera over just a little bit. Okay welcome everyone and to the June 8th meeting of the Economic Development Subcommittee and I have, Madam Host could you call the roll please? Certainly. Members Fleming? Present. Member Alvarez? Present. Member Sawyer? Here. Thank you. Dr. Becker reflected everyone is present. Excellent. Thank you very much and what I'd like to do first is ask if there is public comment on top. It's not listed on our agenda today. We do not have any public comment for this meeting. Okay thanks Eileen. So if you wish to make a comment via Zoom please select and raise the hand button. If you are dialing in via telephone please dial star 9 to raise your hand. Each speaker has three minutes. A countdown timer will appear for the convenience of the speaker and viewers. Please make sure to unmute yourself when you are invited to do so. Your microphone will be muted at the end of that countdown and this information is for those that wish to make comment later on our later in our agenda. So I am going to move to our standard agenda and Rae said would you like to discuss new business? We have no new business. Okay there you go. So we have a general plan visioning session. Is Amy on do we have Amy? We do. Okay. Amy would you like to introduce this visioning session? Good morning. I'd love to. So you may have heard this because we have hosted district workshops with all the council members present but today I did want to provide a quick presentation on our general plan visioning process which is one of the first stages and we've just done a lot of community outreach on this and engagement. So I do have a brief presentation for you today on this. Excellent. Thank you. Are you ready to get started? Yes. All right. Give me one second. I'll share my screen here. Let's see here. All right. Has everyone seen my presentation? Yes. I see it. Great. All right. So we're going to go ahead and just jump right in. So our general plan process is very big picture. So this is really looking at how our communities are created and all the physical components. So schools, shopping, freeways, where you live, how you define your community, where is downtown, all of those different things. But it doesn't only just deal with the physical components but also the social components. So we also look at education and access to Mary and please excuse me one second. I have kids home for the summer and they are full of energy. And so we do want to make sure that the community has an opportunity. Please leave and close the door. Thank you. Thank you. Close the door. Okay. Thank you. Apologies. So we are looking at not just the physical but the social pieces as well. So our general plan process really only happens once every 10 years or so. So we're asking the community what they want to see in 2050. And we've been really excited and of what we've heard. And so we're going to share a little bit about what we've heard today. And then just to give you an overview of what process we're in, this is a three-year process and it will conclude in 2023. So we are just here right now. And so our next phase will be looking at different land use and circulation alternatives. And then we'll go into policy development and environmental review. And then it'll come forward to planning commission and city council in 2023 for consideration of adoption. So it's a long process and we'll be coming to the public at various points of the process to engage and get comments. And so it's exciting. This process also includes an update for our climate action plan. It will include an update to our housing element and also incorporates policy related to environmental justice and safety. And it also we do have a grant from Kaiser Permanente to do health equity and outreach and engagement with our vulnerable populations. So a couple other key pieces of this is one our community advisory committee. We have a group of 25 that are not only our liaisons but are also a group that really helps us understand where we should be reaching out to. So we really get a full engagement opportunity with our community. So we are looking to fill a couple remaining seats on this community advisory committee. So if there are people on the line who are interested or do you know others in the community, we are just accepting applications just for a couple more days before we conclude that and then move those forward towards potential appointments. And then we also have a technical advisory committee which are really our technical leads from various departments of the city, from other governments, from transportation components such as SMART and our Sonoma County Transportation Authority. And so this group has been with us throughout this process so far as well and will continue. And so we really do rely on that CAC, Community Advisory Committee and then our technical advisory committee. So we do have a robust website that's available and this is going to be our one-stop shop for the whole project ongoing. So there's a lot of good data on here in which we'll talk about a little bit. And as we post surveys for the community or you just want to provide input, this is a great place to go. And then we also have our community vision workshops that just concluded. So this was one piece of the activities that we did during this event set. And the 10 workshops was really our effort to get down to that neighborhood level. We did host at least one workshop in each district. We do really appreciate all the input that you all provided and the engagement that you helped us get. So we also did some Spanish only meetings and then bilingual meetings as part of this. This is just a little snippet of what we saw and what we heard. So we did have our first workshop that was posted in February that recently closed. We had over 1,300 people reply to the survey, which was a great response. We have another one out now. So we hope to beat that. But the responses on this were very interesting because we did ask people to map their neighborhood and we'll continue to use this data. But we really wanted to hear from people what they considered to be their heart of their neighborhood. How big of an area do people consider it to be their neighborhood? So it was really kind of an interesting thing to ask and to get responses on. And when we asked about what the heart of people's neighborhoods were, we did hear that the heart is really where they live. So the middle of their neighborhood. But also where people get shop services and retail. So a lot of neighborhoods have a little node of retail activity. But also there's also places like a park or church or school that can reflect part of that community. And then we also talked about what are the most important changes you would like to see in Santa Rosa. And so top of mind for a lot of folks have been our fires. So natural hazards have really come forward. And then also just housing for all. And then also community public services and amenities and then economic job growth. And then we asked what excites people about Santa Rosa. And this was also a fun question to get responses on because it really shows the optimism and resilience of our community. But we did hear a lot about affordable housing and that housing for all. And then also just the protection of our natural resources of being those top recipients. And then we also moved into our vision statements that we've provided to the public. As really a starting point, just to gauge how people felt about these various words and the statements that went behind them. These were originally developed based on conversations we had with our community advisory committee, with our technical team, and among our staff team and some of the various community workshops that we had had up to the point of our district workshops. And so we wanted to put something out there for people to react to. So these draft division statements were provided and we were able to get a lot of great feedback. And we will be talking about these draft vision statements a little bit here. And then I won't give it all away, but we will come into the planning commission and city council at a joint meeting in July to really talk about what we heard and to get feedback on the final set of vision statements. So the first set of vision statements I'm just going to go through. Inclusive and just being two of these words. And so that's really representing the just equity for all and providing opportunity for people to engage with our government and understanding where the barriers are to participation. And then just really representing the impact of environmental justice and the need in our community and making sure that we have the opportunity related to the built environment and how that impacts people's lives and health. And speaking of health, this was a big component of what we heard. And we do want to make sure that in the future our neighborhoods are healthy and vibrant. And then also resilience, which was a word that really caused a lot of conversation in our district workshops. I think this word has meant a lot for a lot of different people. And sometimes people weren't really sure what it was meant to represent. But resilience in this framework is really looking at the ability for our community to bounce back, but also for our city and the services to be able to restore infrastructure and we have sustainable efforts there. And then we also want prepared and sheltered. So prepared really looking at the awareness of what natural hazards we have in our community and making sure that we have not just a city preparedness, but a community preparedness. And then sheltered diverse mix of high quality, safe, well designed housing at all different affordability levels. And then equitable. So making sure that convenient and access is open for all in our community. Successful and connected. So successful really being that representative of the economic piece and making sure that in the future we do have a thriving economy that will be able to sustain and provide opportunities for for all. And then connected so that multimodal and reliable opportunities for not just transit, but bike and pedestrian. So really that full full gamut of opportunity there. Then we also have safe and educated. So safe. Not just for our public or personal safety, but public safety as well, making sure that we feel safe in our neighborhoods and in our communities. And then educated making sure that we have opportunity for education for all. And that we have a connected community to really be able to support that. So these draft vision statements conclude with just these two so cultural and sustainable cultural our ability to really celebrate our rich culture and heritage we have here in Santa Rosa and in Sonoma County, and then sustainable so our natural resources and making sure that we are able to protect the resources that we have and be able to access those open space areas for our community. So the next steps with these vision statements, as I noted is July 20th, we will be coming to the City Council and Planning Commission for a study session. And we will be looking for feedback and and there's still time for the community to give us feedback as well. So we are right now we've been going to a variety of different community organizations, and we have also on agendas for other various boards and commissions. So we want to get as much awareness out there and as much input as we can. Because these vision statements really do lay out a foundation for the remaining policy work for this general plan effort. So it's an important piece and a really exciting piece to hear from the community on what people would like. So with that, I will complete my presentation and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. Good job. Thank you Amy. You know, when I attended them, attended the meeting in my district, you know, even though there wasn't a ton of people, the respondents were engaged and really added a lot of richness to the process and the conversation. So it's not and I mentioned it that night is really not about the quantity of people that are attending because, you know, all sorts of people could attend that are minorly interested. These are people that these are, you know, residents that are really engaged and want to make a difference. So it was really it was rewarding to hear their responses. And I know that the experience was was made richer again by their attendance. So it was I would I would call it a great success, the one that I was able to attend last. Any questions or comments? Eddie or Victoria seeing none. We thank you Amy very much. And so what is the next meeting? What district are you meeting next in? So we've actually concluded all of our district meetings. So now we are going to boards and commissions. And then we have quite a lot of community meetings on the books. So although we had I can't remember how many attended our district workshops, that is one piece of the full range of things we're doing. So we're actually reaching out to a lot of folks just individually and through existing meetings and organizations as well. So that's that's really the main effort. But if you if you do want to see if there's people in the call, they're have were, you know, very open to any comments on the vision statements or anything related to the general plan as well. Okay, excellent. And so good luck on your on the next series of engagements with the community. You guys are doing a great job. So do we have Eileen, do we have any public comment on this item? We have no raise hands at this time. Okay, thank you very much. So then we'll move on to 3.2 the child care support program update. Raisa. Hey, this might be a short meeting for us today unless we have a lot of stuff to say about childcare. But so this I just wanted to give you an update where we are and who we've been meeting with on the childcare stuff. So super quick recap. We've got $2 million, sort of from the CARES Act funds, right? I think it's from general funds, but they're general funds free that from the CARES Act. And we came up with a two part childcare support pilot program. And the first part, we spent $600,000 on two efforts. And it was the first was, you know, working with first five to provide grants that would see the existing childcare, those childcare that didn't close childcare centers and family childcare slots that didn't close down due to COVID, just to get them through the pandemic as best we can. I have to get the final report from first five to know how many people the grant supported, but our $500,000 went into their program that was leveraged by, I think they had a couple hundred thousand dollars left of their own funds for first five. And then other organizations were incentivized to increase the grant program to also provide funds. I think there were about five organizations that ended up participating and including like Sonoma County Foundation or the foundation of Sonoma County. And there was something like $1.5 million in grants given, but the money from Santa Rosa stayed within the city. And again, the bulk of childcare providers actually reside within the city. And then the other $100,000 went to Four Seas to, because we also have a pipeline issue, and it was to double the amount of trains they have to prepare childcare providers for licensing or just to get them in and started up. And that's again for childcare providers and centers, but also home care, home-based childcare, because those are the, that's the area where we have the most lots available. So that was the first phase. And then the second thing we'd always wanted to do something was facilities, some kind of a facility fund. And here's where Victoria and I have been working together to research and understand what's possible with the, and really how to leverage the remaining $1.4 million, because that's not a lot of money, but we were trying to figure out what would be the best use of those funds to spur and incentivize new contributions. And then how do you, what could we do with the funds so that it wasn't unlike a grant program where you use it once and then it's gone? How do you perpetuate the funds, right? So we've been researching and talking to a number of people and that we've met with developers and providers, early childcare education organizations like First Five Four Seas and other organizations, the Chamber of Commerce, for example. And what we came up with was, at least for our first phase, and Victoria, correct me if I'm wrong if we had other things, but we realized, okay, there's new facilities and existing facilities. And we are still getting calls for like, I need to, I don't want to buy this facility. This childcare provider is going to go out of business, but I don't have the funds to buy it, so we want to salvage the existing facilities we can or rehabilitate them. And then the other side is new facilities. And they both come down, like in talking to developers and providers on what would make most sense, it comes down to tenant improvement fund. Because on the new facility side, generally they can't get loans, so a developer will build a shell. But the providers can't get the loans for the specific childcare kind of build up that they need for the programming. And the programming is really different depending on the age that you're gearing towards. So infant is pretty different and it's all very regulated, but infant build out is very different from toddler to older kid build out. So we came up with, at least for the start, that we can try to come up with a tenant improvement loan, right? But in speaking with, so the issues that we had with that were, okay, with a loan, we have $1.4 million. Again, how do we increase those funds? And the other thing is how do we structure something to where, you know, these organizations like childcare providers with really no margins in their business to be able to afford even a low cost loan. And then the other things were, you know, are we the right organization to actually run this? Should this come out of the city or who do we need to think about something like a red or something like that for childcare, where there's a JPA who could actually run a loan program or can we get involved with a bank or something like this? And so on those two things and speaking with first five, so we immediately thought we could first five do because they do this. So I spoke with Angie Dillon Shore and they don't have one now, but first five used to run some kind of a loan program. And so she knows that they have it within their capabilities to do. It's not prohibited, is what she said. And it's something that is of interest to them. But they have their thing, she's thinking at this point that could it be a collaborative effort with like RCU or one of our local banks, so that it could, you know, so that it could run it smoothly and the entirety of the burden isn't on first five. So recognizing right there, there's going to be a loan fund, but then we'd have to also address the fact that there's administrative costs to this. And again, we're starting to eat away at the 1.4 and again, increasing the need to get additional buy-in. The other thing we talked about is, you know, again with the margins, you know, most providers aren't able to accommodate sort of a large repayment. So it would have to be a below market, you know, to no interest kind of loan program. And they're, you know, the thing that would be most sustainable, the most not most sustainable for the for the program, but for the organizations receiving these is, is there an option for forgiveness. And so these are the things that we're beginning to have to figure out is if it's a loan, what does it look like? How much can we actually loan out? What are the criteria? But then also is there something like with our permits? We do charge for permits, but if the organization gets up and running and they prove that they're open for business, those, those permit fees are reimbursed. Is there a way to do something similar for this? But if we do it, then what does it mean to the sustainability of the fund? Okay. And then the other thing before I put this up for conversation is, is there are so many initiatives at the state and federal level that I cannot follow them. And Angie even said that she's having a hard time tracking what's happening at the state and federal level. So, you know, I sort of floated this, like, can we just set those aside? And those would be bonus. This can be a standalone thing. And hopefully, there could be enough flexibility built into it that we can leverage whatever comes up from state and federal, because if we're really looking at a loan program, and then we look at next phases or building a program, I think we can build in that flexibility into it. Because they're in this tough spot now of trying to understand what's coming down in the next two years in terms of funding, which will be competitive from state and federal. How do we set ourselves up to be most competitive? And what are the uses of those funds, right? The other thing that she's looking at that first five is looking at is a 2022 ballot measure. And so this is where we began looking at what is a sustainable source of funding for either this program or other needs that would be complimentary. And it would be a measure for infrastructure funding for ongoing ECE funding. And she was initially looking at it, or they I should say first five, in terms of a wage parity question, because again, our pipeline is in dire straits right now. Even though there are programs that are continuing to train people and get providers ready to provide this or open their own centers, they're earning 15, 20 an hour, and they can earn more elsewhere. And we're finding that the pipeline, like if they'll come in for a couple of years, and then the lead because they can't afford to have this job. And then the other thing is she said, well, if we do get this funding, we pass this ballot, and she would like to work with the city of Santa Rosa to promote this need for this ballot. She would put a little bit into facilities as well, because again, we need the both of them. So that pipeline question remains an issue, but it's less of an issue on training. And I'm hearing this throughout the Bay Area talking to people, it's just like anything else at an entry-level wage thing, this is the biggest issue at the moment. And so I'm wondering, maybe we begin exploring something like we did with the minimum wage, maybe it's an isolated wage ordinance in Santa Rosa that sort of forces the question of what's a living wage for our child care providers. They're not paid the same as like our teachers or things like that. So that became another question that's a little bit separate from the TI program. And then the other thing that we talked about is, well, two things, is the timeline for getting the program together. So I think we're starting to make those steps moving forward. And can we do it in advance of the 2022 ballot that they're thinking of putting together? And what does that look like? And then eventually what other things feed into it. And then the last thing is a longer term goal. And she pointed out that there's a place in King County, Washington, where they have Best Starts. It's a continuum program. And it's called Best Starts for Kids. And they look at zero to five, but then they look at the continuum of needs thereafter, which are not necessarily based in the standard school-based systems. And so in short, in summary, we're making progress too, and we've honed in on the tenant improvement grant, or not grant loan program. And we think we have a house for it. We have initial funds. Our next phases are building the program out enough to get additional buy-in for it. And then eventually finding other sustainable inputs. And then the second piece of that is the longer term piece, because the tenant improvement item is only a first step in this next phase that we're doing. And that is all I have to tell you. Well, thanks, Raisa. That's a lot. You guys have come a long way. Victoria, anything you'd like to add? Well, I want to thank Raisa and her team, as well as the first five for doing all of this research. I mean, as you can see, it's so broad and variable. And there's issues about capital and labor and regulations and unknowns with state funding and how that's going to come down. So I'm just really appreciative that folks have been willing to take on such a complex topic. And I also want to say to our staff's credit that I don't know of too many other, actually, I don't know if any other in the state of California, jurisdictions smaller than that at the state level that are really looking at this stuff. I think maybe San Mateo or Santa Clara County, one of the counties in the peninsula, but we should really be proud that we're taking this on. What's interesting is Oakland, Raisa, because I mentioned it on a call and she was like, can you tell me what you're doing? I think other jurisdictions are looking at it, but they haven't thought as creatively as we have about it yet. Well, it's really wonderful because I know that when they hear this, it really gets other people to the table, which is my primary concern around this because it is so big and broad. We really can't go it alone in the long run. I really appreciate your effort there, Victoria, and of course the staff. Everyone is involved in not only moving this forward, but getting other jurisdictions to understand the importance of it. So it's really, really important. Eddie, did you have any questions or comments on this? No, sir. Just when we speak about broad the situation is where the issue is, I think it speaks also to the different sectors of our community that it does affect. And although business we don't really associate with the child care, it's greatly affected. And just seeing how broad the situation is, I just want to point it out that in the different sectors of our economy, it truly is broad. Yeah, good point. Thank you. I have a question though. Because it's a new piece of it, and I think from a policy perspective, could be looked at differently than the tenant improvement program. Is that question of that wage parity or something like this? I'm trying to figure out what an answer might be. It's interesting to me that First Five is looking at a valid measure, and she hasn't really figured out how to answer that. But from a jurisdictional perspective, am I on the right track in thinking, is there like an ordinance thing? Like I can't figure out how to begin addressing that piece of it. Yeah, so John, is it okay if I jump in? Yeah, please. Okay. So when you said that, Roy, you said something that always sort of bugs me, and I think about how the system is really unfair for these people who work with children in daycare settings. And I was like, oh boy, once we start talking about this, how are we going to do the facilities thing? So when we were going to get into comments and questions, I was going to try to separate the two issues. Because I think that once we start getting into this, it's a worthwhile topic, but it's also one that I have never seen the public sector regulate, pay by industry. I've seen minimum wages instituted, and contractors compelled to pay their employees certain minimums based on working with a governmental agency. But I've never heard of anything like a government saying you can't pay in this industry below a certain amount. So I was unsure, like, how are we going to conceptualize that in principle? Are we going to say that people who work in childcare, in entry level childcare are more valuable than people who work in, I don't know, other types of low paid areas that require skill, dedication, and hard work that society doesn't value, or are we going to look at other ways to reinforce the value and therefore increase the wage, but also provide business owners and operators with the supports that they need in order to pay their employees in a way that's sustainable. And that's where I come back to, like, well, can we ease the burden for them around tenant improvements? And can we make that a sustainable thing? Can we look for funding at the state level? And then I know the state has ongoing practices around increasing education requirements. And there's been increasing interest and progress. I'll be a very slow in organizing and unionizing workers in that area. And so I think that given how tight the labor market is at this point, that at some point, there will be the demand will will exceed the availability. And I'm hoping that there are things besides us coming in and saying, you can't pay somebody in this sector below certain wage. And my concern is if we do that, that operators are not going to be able to hack it. So yeah, I mean, I was like, I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I had never heard like, Oh, this makes this much. I know that there are things where I forget what they're called, but in the labor laws, where they have specific mandates for industry groups, but the minimum wage is always the same, right? But if you work in this group, then these are the considerations. And I forget what those are called, like wage mandates or something like this, prevailing wage is I mean, in is kind of the concept you might be thinking about, but that's that would be a government body having a putting in a project like, like, like the JC, for instance, they can demand if it's a governmental, if it's the government building it, you can demand prevailing wage. And it's that kind of model that I think would could potentially work. But it does intrude into private enterprise. And unless we were paying, unless it was our project, where we could demand prevailing wage, in that kind of at least that kind of model, I don't know, I think it would be it would be probably like you said, Victoria, a bit of an uphill battle, I think. But it doesn't even make sense in a way, like if you think it through, because if you're demanding that they pay more, it's still like when the what's the overhead wears the pass through. So maybe it's actually not, you know, an ordinance for that, but it's yet another it's it's like the dual program of not just facility funds, so you decrease the cost of them to actually create the center through the tenant improvement, right, so that it takes that that ongoing cost burden off of them, right, or the initial I should say cost burden off of them. And then, because, you know, we talked about like a tuition guarantee or, or how do you do, you know, they're subsidized, subsidized like vouchers or something like this, you know, that certain people apply for but there is a subsidy gap where you have people who still can't afford it. So is there a way to, you know, in looking at in that vein, I mean, it's still another program, but but that's one where it's not it can't perpetuate itself because it's just an output, and there's no repaying. So we're a tenant improvement loan can do this, then it's this question of ongoing funds to be able to pay the to have some kind of a tuition guarantee so that they can actually afford to pay for their staff. So one, so one thing that a couple of ideas come to mind on that count, one is, you know, there's one is the long range saying of working with the state to say, hey, for the vouchers, you know, you need to bump up the amount. Another thing locally is if there were a measure and that we were going to support saying something like, you know, maybe we would do a voucher, a gap voucher or something with a stipulation that, you know, if you accept these gap vouchers, it's really about, you know, like when you pay it now, you know, when you go to a restaurant, they add a lot of places are starting to just add the gratuity into it. And, you know, they add a back at house fee and so forth. So, you know, perhaps we could essentially make the gap vouchers intended to help subsidize employee wages. And we could say, you know, with this, this is intended to help you pay X amount of dollars to your employees. And then so maybe actually then I mean, because like what role does the city have, we don't have funds that to do an ongoing contribution rate. So then maybe it is saying to, you know, first five, if they do put that ballot measure in, we'll just focus it in on that on that wage issue. So that we can I mean, or focus it on that on the wage issue, but focus it on the pipeline issue. And wage is a piece of that pipeline issue. And then we can then continue to look at solely at the funds or the cities themselves, because if first five runs, this is not going to just be for us, but it would be return to source. And we can just focus then on the, the tenant improvement piece of it and other structural infrastructure elements of it. And then that's a fine line and it keeps it within our lane. You know, the other one other thing, and this is kind of philosophical and esoteric. So I appreciate you and my colleagues bearing with me on this. But the real reason why that these wages are so low is not just because the employees are female and people of color. That is one significant element. But the other is because people widely consider childcare to be, you know, on the margins of, of a working woman's earnings. So, you know, we're not looking at the, the man's earnings in general, people are assessing whether or not that it makes economic sense for a mother to go to work versus care for children at home. And so to the extent that we can work with the chamber and our partners around changing the narrative, if we ever do get something into the ballot, I would, I would really suggest, you know, marketing this as not just an economic benefit to women, but an economic benefit to our businesses and to working men as well. And I'd get a picture of Jack going to work with his baby strapped to him or something like that. You know, you got to, I think we really have to, to start to reimagine what the purpose of this is. Because to my mind, it's not just about helping women in the workforce, but it's also, as I think we all know, strongly tied to future economic development for the children who, who get to go to high quality daycare. And when they do do that, the cost of society down the road is so, is so great, greatly reduced in terms of prison and remediation and so forth. But it's, it's sort of stuck in this, this place that it's all about the parent. And if we can shift that to it being about the economy and about the child, I think that, you know, will be part of a really long term change in, in understanding the value of it. And that will drive wages up when people see the value in it for everybody. Well, you think you just nailed it. I mean, upstream investment is always, always difficult to, to achieve because people are slow to understand the value and you're right. I mean, we're talking about the future, our future when we talk about our kids and the better their, better their education and the better their exposure to nurturing adults and other kids for that matter, the better off the entire society is, but it is, you know, you're right. It's, that is a major upstream investment and, and it affects all the things you just mentioned and it's, it is a, it is a challenge. It's always a challenge. It's always a payoff. It's a slow, it's, it's slow, steady payoff, but it's, it's a challenge to get people to buy in in the beginning. It's just, it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. I just wanted to, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, go, go ahead, go ahead. Before, before, before you go, race, I don't, I hate to interrupt, but we're going to, we probably need to, to, in the future, we're going to have to not have meetings at 10 o'clock when we have a 12 o'clock council meeting, which we didn't know. And we didn't know we were going to have closed session until it happened. So we're going to have to watch our, our agenda because we're going to, we are, we're at 1045 and we have to be at City Hall between 1130 and 12. So we're starting to get there. I think we're almost finished. I just want to say I have just one thought that that I'll bring back later in when we, when we do this. And that is maybe there's a way to get, do greater incentives to employer-based child care where that, where the provider is, is either an employee of the, of that employer-based child care site, like key site, and paid at a higher level than, and then they get the benefits and stuff like that. Or some kind of thing where, again, with the employer-based thing, maybe there's, there's a way to be able to show the ability. And I think, again, that's a place where we can play. And we can maybe build that into the system. Yeah, that sounds like an opportunity there. I like that. Yeah. So this gives me enough. And I know, Eddie, you want to say something? No, for me, so it was pretty much saying that this conversation is identical to the ones that we have about teachers. They're great contributions to society yet they're very fully compensated. And my, my suggestion, or is being newly involved in, in the elected, as an elected official, is what has worked for the, for the teachers organizations, for the teachers union to, to increase their pay. I know very, very little, as we know that they're still very poorly paid, but it's definitely, I see it as identical conversation that we're having. Yeah, you're right. I'm very close. It's totally tied, actually. I, I see them as, as parallel, parallel tracks. Well, I need to go to the community and see if there's anyone from the public, Eileen, that would like to address this. We do not have any raise hands at this time. Okay, well, I'm going to, I'm going to jump in and ask for, for, I think this is already in the works, but I'm short term rentals and how that might be coming back to the economic development. So that's on the August agenda. Okay. Yeah. And there's, we will not have a meeting in July. So the next meeting is August and it will be short term rentals. And just because I think you probably all received that the emails that we received this from this last weekend. It's just, it's just quite, I mean, my heart goes out to people that are, that are being victimized by bad players. It's just really, and I didn't even know it was happening. I mean, it's like, I guess the, these, the situation that we're talking about, which I'm sure you all got the, I'm maybe not, did everyone get emails this weekend about a situation with a large home? Anyway, there's, it's, it's, it's really kind of devastating to this particular neighborhood. And it's not the, we need to address, we need to have a conversation about it. So we'll get it on the agenda as soon as possible. It sounds like it's going to hit in August. And the staff is gathering information and data to help us with our, with our conversation and how, how we might be recommending something to full council. And staff is working on the issue itself as, as we might be talking about it. Staff is also working on what they can do, given our current ordinances to try to alleviate some of the pain being suffered by some of the, some of the neighbors of these bad players. So I think if that, I think that'll just about do it if I'm not mistaken. Thanks you guys. Short, but very valuable conversation. Thank you all, and we'll see you soon.